WEBVTT 00:07.039 --> 00:09.095 How are you doing this morning ? I'm 00:09.095 --> 00:11.206 good . How are you ? Awesome . Thanks 00:11.206 --> 00:13.372 for having me . It's good to be here . 00:13.372 --> 00:12.920 Good day , listeners , and thank you 00:12.920 --> 00:15.170 for joining us in the 13th episode of 00:15.170 --> 00:17.226 our podcast . Uh , Nichol , for your 00:17.226 --> 00:19.503 thoughts . I'm Massar and Stuart Gusty , 00:19.503 --> 00:21.726 the student president of Class 76 , and 00:21.726 --> 00:23.670 today I have the honor of speaking 00:23.670 --> 00:25.837 virtually with the 6th senior enlisted 00:25.837 --> 00:28.003 advisor , the Chairman and Joint Chief 00:28.003 --> 00:30.114 of Staff , SEAC David Isom , also the 00:30.114 --> 00:32.226 first , uh , member of the Navy to be 00:32.226 --> 00:34.540 awarded this title . Sak Isom , we 00:34.540 --> 00:36.707 appreciate you taking this time , uh , 00:36.707 --> 00:38.818 from your busy schedule to speak with 00:38.818 --> 00:40.818 us today . And as you're aware , we 00:40.818 --> 00:42.929 have 5 questions for you . But before 00:42.929 --> 00:44.873 we begin , do you have any opening 00:44.873 --> 00:47.040 remarks for the podcast ? Hey , just , 00:47.040 --> 00:49.207 uh , thanks for , thanks for having me 00:49.207 --> 00:48.860 on . I really appreciate the 00:48.860 --> 00:51.027 opportunity to chat with you and , and 00:51.027 --> 00:53.304 the audience . It's awesome to be here . 00:53.304 --> 00:56.040 Um , and I would just say , um , if , 00:56.169 --> 00:58.259 if , if I could send one big message 00:58.259 --> 01:00.860 out to the total Joint Force , it would 01:00.860 --> 01:03.099 be how grateful the chairman and I are 01:03.099 --> 01:05.266 for their service and just how awesome 01:05.266 --> 01:09.129 our joint force is . As we set 01:09.129 --> 01:11.185 the conditions for the podcast , the 01:11.185 --> 01:13.449 message you and the chairman set out is 01:13.449 --> 01:16.250 that you prioritize delivering peace 01:16.250 --> 01:18.028 through strength by focusing on 01:18.028 --> 01:20.209 maintaining a joint force that is 01:20.209 --> 01:23.000 properly armed , globally integrated , 01:23.250 --> 01:25.194 and ready while taking care of our 01:25.194 --> 01:27.306 people and our families . And leading 01:27.306 --> 01:29.250 into the first question , With our 01:29.250 --> 01:31.959 strategic focus shifting from Russia to 01:31.959 --> 01:33.870 China , and now increasingly to 01:33.870 --> 01:35.981 homeland defense , what do you see as 01:35.981 --> 01:37.870 the most important priorities for 01:37.870 --> 01:39.839 senior enlisted members to help us 01:39.839 --> 01:42.117 succeed in this new environment ? Yeah , 01:42.150 --> 01:44.261 it's a great question . Uh , I , I'll 01:44.261 --> 01:46.419 tell you , it's an incredibly complex 01:46.419 --> 01:48.586 environment that we're living in right 01:48.586 --> 01:50.919 now . And so I think it's critical that , 01:50.919 --> 01:54.239 uh , that all of our enlisted force , 01:54.260 --> 01:56.427 and especially for our senior enlisted 01:56.427 --> 01:58.482 leaders , you need to understand the 01:58.482 --> 02:00.699 strategic context . You need to read 02:00.699 --> 02:02.755 the national security strategy , the 02:02.755 --> 02:04.977 national defense strategy . You need to 02:04.977 --> 02:07.019 think about where , um , our 02:07.019 --> 02:10.080 policymakers are focused . We need to 02:10.399 --> 02:13.320 be prepared . To really understand the 02:13.320 --> 02:15.639 complexities of this global risk 02:15.639 --> 02:17.639 environment , it's the highest I've 02:17.639 --> 02:19.917 ever seen it , uh , with challenges in , 02:19.917 --> 02:22.240 in every AOR . So I think it's really 02:22.240 --> 02:24.296 important for our service members to 02:24.296 --> 02:26.407 study the problem , to become masters 02:26.407 --> 02:28.440 of their trade , to be the , the 02:28.440 --> 02:30.440 professionals that our nation needs 02:30.440 --> 02:32.551 them to be , and to always be ready . 02:32.770 --> 02:34.992 Absolutely . Couldn't agree more , CA . 02:34.992 --> 02:37.103 Referencing our previous discussion , 02:37.103 --> 02:39.270 one of the things you talked about was 02:39.270 --> 02:41.437 integration between the joint forces . 02:41.437 --> 02:43.381 Do you think with today's evolving 02:43.381 --> 02:45.548 environment , that's something we will 02:45.548 --> 02:47.659 continue to focus on and hone in on , 02:47.659 --> 02:50.179 um , as we progress , uh , shifting 02:50.179 --> 02:52.720 these focuses ? Yeah , absolutely . I 02:52.720 --> 02:54.942 mean , joint is the way we fight . It's 02:54.942 --> 02:56.998 the way we've , we fought for a long 02:56.998 --> 02:59.149 time . We learned hard lessons , um , 02:59.399 --> 03:01.566 many , many decades ago , and so it is 03:01.566 --> 03:04.600 the , the total joint force strength is 03:04.600 --> 03:07.160 what makes us a great military . I 03:07.160 --> 03:09.271 think it's , uh , it's always when we 03:09.271 --> 03:11.440 are our best , when we're tapping into 03:11.440 --> 03:13.662 the strengths of each of our services , 03:13.720 --> 03:15.664 and so we just have to continue to 03:15.664 --> 03:17.831 refine that as we shift focus from one 03:17.831 --> 03:20.509 AOR to another . And as we think about 03:20.509 --> 03:23.580 the challenges of large scale combat 03:23.580 --> 03:26.630 operations , I think , uh , going joint 03:26.630 --> 03:28.963 is just , it's the , it's the right way , 03:28.963 --> 03:31.130 it's the answer , and it's where we're 03:31.130 --> 03:33.241 always going to go . Moving on to the 03:33.241 --> 03:35.352 second question , many senior leaders 03:35.352 --> 03:37.574 emphasize the importance of reading and 03:37.574 --> 03:39.797 maintaining established reading lists . 03:39.797 --> 03:42.019 Could you share a book that you've read 03:42.019 --> 03:44.074 recently that has made a significant 03:44.074 --> 03:46.297 impact on you ? Man , I'm , I'm reading 03:46.297 --> 03:48.519 a lot because I do a lot of flying with 03:48.519 --> 03:50.686 the chairman , so I have a lot of time 03:50.686 --> 03:52.852 sitting in an airplane seat and , uh , 03:52.852 --> 03:55.074 and reading , you know , um , I've been 03:55.074 --> 03:57.241 reading several books lately . There's 03:57.241 --> 03:59.241 one about stoicism by , uh , Steven 03:59.241 --> 04:01.297 Spears , and so I'm a big fan of the 04:01.297 --> 04:03.297 idea of , of stoicism , and I think 04:03.297 --> 04:05.463 there's a lot of great books out there 04:05.463 --> 04:07.352 on , on that topic that are worth 04:07.352 --> 04:09.463 checking out . Uh , there's , there's 04:09.463 --> 04:11.519 another great book I'm reading about 04:11.519 --> 04:11.449 Abraham Lincoln and the American 04:11.449 --> 04:14.210 Experiment by Alan , uh , Guelzo , and 04:14.210 --> 04:16.432 that's a real interesting look at where 04:16.432 --> 04:18.432 we've , where we've been and how we 04:18.432 --> 04:20.766 ended up where we are today as a nation . 04:20.766 --> 04:22.710 Uh , there's a , a book titled The 04:22.710 --> 04:25.190 Warrior Ethos by Steven Pressfield that 04:25.190 --> 04:27.357 I've been reading as well . You know , 04:27.357 --> 04:29.579 as you know , the Department of War and 04:29.579 --> 04:31.579 the Secretary of War has put a real 04:31.579 --> 04:34.660 strong emphasis on this idea of 04:34.660 --> 04:36.716 restoring the warrior ethos . And so 04:36.716 --> 04:38.882 it's really interesting to hear , uh , 04:38.882 --> 04:40.938 the words of those who've studied it 04:40.938 --> 04:42.938 and have talked about it , um , you 04:42.938 --> 04:45.459 know , many , many years ago . And of 04:45.459 --> 04:47.626 course , um , uh , there's a book I've 04:47.626 --> 04:49.792 read a little bit of , but I loaned it 04:49.792 --> 04:51.903 out to one of my teammates and it's , 04:51.903 --> 04:54.126 uh , a book by our previous SIAC , uh , 04:54.126 --> 04:56.126 before Troy Black . It was CZ Colon 04:56.126 --> 04:57.940 Lopez . He wrote a book titled 04:57.940 --> 04:59.773 Carnivore Leadership . So , uh , 04:59.820 --> 05:02.760 reading a little bit of that one . What 05:02.760 --> 05:04.871 I noticed as a trend with these books 05:04.871 --> 05:06.982 is that they're , they're not focused 05:06.982 --> 05:08.982 on one central area . You have from 05:08.982 --> 05:10.760 personal uh experience with the 05:10.760 --> 05:12.816 stoicism , you tap into history with 05:12.816 --> 05:14.816 the American experience , uh , with 05:14.816 --> 05:16.871 Abraham Lincoln , you know , to more 05:16.871 --> 05:19.038 modern lesson learned with the warrior 05:19.038 --> 05:21.679 ethos and , uh , the , the Carnivore 05:21.679 --> 05:24.079 written by the previous SIAC . Of those 05:24.079 --> 05:26.190 books , what have you taken away from 05:26.359 --> 05:28.760 and what are you going to apply in this 05:28.760 --> 05:31.950 new role ? I think we all , I mean , 05:32.000 --> 05:35.720 it's great to , uh , to study the 05:35.720 --> 05:37.553 mastery of our profession . It's 05:37.553 --> 05:39.470 important that we all study the 05:39.470 --> 05:41.637 profession of arms and think about our 05:41.637 --> 05:43.637 jobs as military leaders , but it's 05:43.637 --> 05:45.720 also equally important to , to think 05:45.720 --> 05:47.942 about the history of where we've been , 05:48.000 --> 05:50.459 how the world came to be the way it is , 05:50.880 --> 05:52.839 um , the American experiment , 05:53.160 --> 05:55.104 understanding our nation , and the 05:55.104 --> 05:57.438 things that influenced us to become the , 05:57.438 --> 05:59.660 the great nation that we are . Um , and 05:59.660 --> 06:01.882 I'm gonna add another book to that list 06:01.882 --> 06:03.993 as well , and it's gonna be , this is 06:03.993 --> 06:06.160 probably my favorite all-time book and 06:06.160 --> 06:08.382 it's called Legacy , and it's about the 06:08.382 --> 06:10.716 All Blacks by James Carr and that's the , 06:10.716 --> 06:12.938 the New Zealand rugby team . And that's 06:12.938 --> 06:15.160 a , that's really a book focused on how 06:15.160 --> 06:17.369 leaders create future leaders . It's , 06:17.450 --> 06:19.617 it talks about , you know , passing on 06:19.850 --> 06:22.070 responsibility , how you create 06:22.440 --> 06:24.970 ownership , uh , how you create 06:24.970 --> 06:27.750 accountability , how you build trust . 06:28.130 --> 06:30.186 And , uh , there's a quote from that 06:30.186 --> 06:32.186 book that I love . It's about how a 06:32.186 --> 06:34.186 kind of a , a society grows greater 06:34.186 --> 06:37.170 when old men plant trees whose shade 06:37.170 --> 06:39.119 they will never see . And that's , 06:39.200 --> 06:41.256 that's really , I think , focused on 06:41.279 --> 06:43.501 how we have to , as leaders , we really 06:43.501 --> 06:45.390 have to spend time focused on our 06:45.390 --> 06:47.579 people and developing those future 06:47.579 --> 06:49.519 leaders . Um , so a lot of great 06:49.519 --> 06:51.630 takeaways from all the books I read , 06:51.920 --> 06:55.040 um , I think , You know , I talk about 06:55.040 --> 06:57.151 this . I just spoke with the Sergeant 06:57.151 --> 06:59.262 Major's Academy and I talked a little 06:59.262 --> 07:01.207 bit about how we need to be , uh , 07:01.279 --> 07:03.459 servant leaders who are empathetic and 07:03.459 --> 07:06.290 humble . And so I think humility is one 07:06.290 --> 07:08.399 that I always go back to because I 07:08.399 --> 07:10.399 think , uh , there's a lot of great 07:10.399 --> 07:12.880 leaders in our history who , who lived 07:12.880 --> 07:15.640 it and demonstrated what a true servant 07:15.640 --> 07:17.751 leader , a humble leader looks like . 07:17.880 --> 07:20.158 And so I always go back to that one as , 07:20.158 --> 07:22.158 as one of my favorites . That's one 07:22.158 --> 07:24.436 that's definitely on my list . I think , 07:24.436 --> 07:26.547 uh , several senior leaders out there 07:26.547 --> 07:28.769 have that on their , uh , their reading 07:28.769 --> 07:28.019 list . Definitely one of the ones I , 07:28.029 --> 07:30.029 uh , I plan to read in the , in the 07:30.029 --> 07:32.085 near future . Once I'm done with all 07:32.085 --> 07:34.196 these assignments and it's our majors 07:34.196 --> 07:36.309 academy . Awesome . Moving on to 07:36.309 --> 07:39.269 question three , you spoke extensively 07:39.269 --> 07:41.679 about travel . As you travel across the 07:41.679 --> 07:44.350 Department of War and at AOR , they 07:44.350 --> 07:46.350 provide a unique perspective on its 07:46.350 --> 07:48.406 various operations and initiatives . 07:48.406 --> 07:50.406 Since your appointment as a SEIAC , 07:50.406 --> 07:52.461 what are some of the most noteworthy 07:52.461 --> 07:54.350 and impactful developments you've 07:54.350 --> 07:56.350 encountered ? Yeah , I mean , first 07:56.350 --> 07:58.294 thing I would say is we all should 07:58.294 --> 08:00.461 recognize that our joint force is , is 08:00.461 --> 08:02.517 amazing . Um , we just have a lot of 08:02.517 --> 08:04.989 really awesome Service members , a lot 08:04.989 --> 08:07.100 of great teammates , people out there 08:07.100 --> 08:09.211 rowing hard every day , doing amazing 08:09.211 --> 08:11.322 work , and they're way better than we 08:11.322 --> 08:13.656 often give them credit for being . So I , 08:13.656 --> 08:15.433 I try to call that out at every 08:15.433 --> 08:17.545 opportunity . Our joint force is just 08:17.545 --> 08:20.549 truly awesome . Um , you know , talking 08:20.549 --> 08:22.970 about traveling and , um , experiences , 08:23.029 --> 08:25.362 you know , we've , we've traveled a lot , 08:25.362 --> 08:27.307 the boss and I , we've visited air 08:27.307 --> 08:29.959 defenders who shot down . Um , you know , 08:30.160 --> 08:32.271 missiles and drones , we've visited a 08:32.271 --> 08:34.604 ship and , and pilots that did the same . 08:35.000 --> 08:37.167 We've visited our National Guard teams 08:37.167 --> 08:39.500 that are out protecting American cities . 08:39.880 --> 08:42.102 Uh , we've been down to Puerto Rico and 08:42.102 --> 08:44.469 down into the SouthCO AOR , uh , out to 08:44.469 --> 08:47.239 a couple of ships at sea , and the work 08:47.239 --> 08:50.150 being done by these great Americans is , 08:50.270 --> 08:53.940 is truly inspiring . Um , it , it 08:53.940 --> 08:57.679 highlights . How important , uh , 08:57.809 --> 09:00.200 our recruitment and our retention 09:00.210 --> 09:02.400 efforts are , and how well we are 09:02.400 --> 09:04.650 really doing as a joint force . We are 09:04.650 --> 09:06.761 getting some of the nation's finest , 09:06.761 --> 09:09.250 really brilliant , brilliant young 09:09.250 --> 09:13.210 leaders , um , as NCOs and as officers 09:13.210 --> 09:15.432 all coming in , all raising their right 09:15.432 --> 09:17.760 hand , serving something bigger than 09:17.760 --> 09:20.070 themselves . Uh , I just attended the , 09:20.150 --> 09:22.261 the Army-Navy football game and I got 09:22.261 --> 09:24.428 to meet , I spent a bunch of time with 09:24.428 --> 09:26.650 the cadets on one side , the midshipman 09:26.650 --> 09:28.761 on the other side , with both teams , 09:28.761 --> 09:30.928 uh , got to spend time in the stands a 09:30.928 --> 09:33.094 little bit and moving around the , the 09:33.094 --> 09:35.206 stadium , talking to folks . I didn't 09:35.206 --> 09:37.317 see much of the game , uh , but I , I 09:37.317 --> 09:39.428 spent a lot of time talking to just a 09:39.428 --> 09:41.317 bunch of really awesome , awesome 09:41.317 --> 09:43.483 Americans and it really hits home when 09:43.483 --> 09:43.369 you think about it from the perspective , 09:43.929 --> 09:45.873 uh , that everybody playing on the 09:45.873 --> 09:47.985 field and down there on the sidelines 09:47.985 --> 09:50.040 and those , Cadets and midshipmen in 09:50.040 --> 09:52.207 the stands , you know , they've , uh , 09:52.207 --> 09:54.373 they've all , they've all raised their 09:54.373 --> 09:56.890 right hand and , and are swearing to 09:56.890 --> 09:58.890 protect and defend our nation , and 09:58.890 --> 10:01.112 they're willing to die for our nation , 10:01.140 --> 10:03.880 um , and to , to die for those that are 10:03.880 --> 10:06.102 watching that game . So that's a really 10:06.102 --> 10:08.269 a powerful moment when that hits you . 10:08.269 --> 10:10.491 And it was a , it was a great , um , it 10:10.491 --> 10:12.713 was a great game , great to see a close 10:12.713 --> 10:14.769 game the way you want it to be . You 10:14.769 --> 10:16.880 want it to be close every time . So , 10:16.880 --> 10:19.659 yeah , I , I think , um , I just , I 10:19.659 --> 10:21.992 love watching our joint force every day , 10:21.992 --> 10:24.215 watching young leaders , watching young 10:24.215 --> 10:26.159 NCOs and officers out there , just 10:26.159 --> 10:27.992 crushing it , getting after it , 10:27.992 --> 10:30.048 working hard , and , uh , and seeing 10:30.048 --> 10:32.270 that great joint team doing the amazing 10:32.270 --> 10:35.809 work that they do every day . I , I , I 10:35.809 --> 10:37.976 couldn't agree more . See , one of the 10:37.976 --> 10:40.142 things we talk about often , uh , here 10:40.142 --> 10:42.142 in the academy , specifically , you 10:42.142 --> 10:44.087 know , we were surrounded by other 10:44.087 --> 10:46.309 senior leaders about to go into kind of 10:46.309 --> 10:48.253 that tactical slash organizational 10:48.253 --> 10:50.476 level , the more organizational level , 10:50.476 --> 10:52.476 is that we always reference back to 10:52.476 --> 10:54.698 soldiers not being what we were when we 10:54.698 --> 10:56.753 joined , and I think that's a common 10:56.753 --> 10:58.920 misconception . I look back and we got 10:58.920 --> 10:58.849 in the conversation the other day and 10:58.849 --> 11:00.960 one of the things that Someone said , 11:00.960 --> 11:03.071 it's like , oh , the , the , the next 11:03.071 --> 11:02.940 generation is not the same as the 11:02.940 --> 11:04.940 previous , and I don't , I couldn't 11:04.940 --> 11:06.996 agree or disagree more . I , I think 11:06.996 --> 11:09.273 they are the exact same . In , in fact , 11:09.273 --> 11:11.340 they're probably more capable . They 11:11.340 --> 11:13.396 understand technology better , and I 11:13.396 --> 11:15.340 think we have a very bright future 11:15.340 --> 11:17.979 ahead . Yeah , yeah , I , I agree with 11:17.979 --> 11:20.859 you 100% . I mean , I think it's good 11:20.859 --> 11:23.460 in a way that they're not just like I 11:23.460 --> 11:26.289 was . It's good . That they are digital 11:26.289 --> 11:28.122 natives , right ? It's good that 11:28.122 --> 11:30.289 they're born with a cellphone in their 11:30.289 --> 11:32.011 hand and you no longer cut the 11:32.011 --> 11:34.067 umbilical cord , you just unplug the 11:34.067 --> 11:36.178 charging cable and launch them off on 11:36.178 --> 11:38.400 their own as as new babies , you know , 11:38.400 --> 11:40.456 it's uh , it's awesome that our that 11:40.456 --> 11:43.010 our joint force is uh is so smart and 11:43.010 --> 11:45.739 so , um , incredibly capable , so I I 11:45.739 --> 11:47.961 think they're much tougher than we give 11:47.961 --> 11:50.017 them credit for being , uh , they're 11:50.017 --> 11:52.128 much more resilient than we give them 11:52.128 --> 11:53.850 credit for being , and they're 11:53.850 --> 11:55.906 different in , uh , in the same ways 11:55.906 --> 11:57.572 that I was different from the 11:57.572 --> 11:59.461 generation that preceded me , but 11:59.461 --> 12:01.739 they're , they're awesome . Completely , 12:01.739 --> 12:03.517 completely agree . Moving on to 12:03.517 --> 12:05.683 question 4 , as senior enlisted NCOs , 12:05.739 --> 12:07.628 what advice do you have for us to 12:07.628 --> 12:09.850 develop our strategic thinking skills ? 12:09.900 --> 12:12.122 And are there any particular approaches 12:12.122 --> 12:13.789 or experiences that you found 12:13.789 --> 12:16.011 especially valuable throughout your own 12:16.011 --> 12:19.409 career ? Well , you are , you are all 12:19.409 --> 12:21.570 much more talented and much sharper 12:21.570 --> 12:24.559 than , than I am now or I ever was as a , 12:24.669 --> 12:27.929 as a young senior NCO . So , so you 12:27.929 --> 12:30.096 guys are all crushing it out there and 12:30.096 --> 12:32.262 I appreciate you all . Um , I'm , I'll 12:32.262 --> 12:34.373 say a couple of things , I guess , to 12:34.373 --> 12:36.485 answer your question , and these will 12:36.485 --> 12:38.596 be things that you've already heard , 12:38.596 --> 12:40.651 um , but I do find it helpful to get 12:40.651 --> 12:42.651 frequent reminders about the things 12:42.651 --> 12:44.873 that are very basic and the things that 12:44.873 --> 12:46.929 matter because in this chaotic world 12:46.929 --> 12:48.985 that we live in , It is real easy to 12:48.985 --> 12:50.485 get caught up in our , our 12:50.485 --> 12:52.373 mission-focused , um , you know , 12:52.390 --> 12:55.940 fast-paced life and sometimes , uh , 12:55.950 --> 12:58.172 forget the basics , and so , you know , 12:58.820 --> 13:00.820 basic number one , take care of our 13:00.820 --> 13:02.950 people , you know , soft truth number 13:02.950 --> 13:05.061 one is humans are more important than 13:05.061 --> 13:07.172 hardware , and so that tells us right 13:07.172 --> 13:09.309 off the bat that we can have the most 13:09.309 --> 13:12.630 awesome . Tanks , missiles , airplanes , 13:12.710 --> 13:15.229 ships , but without our people , we're 13:15.229 --> 13:17.950 nothing . They are truly our strategic 13:17.950 --> 13:21.109 and our asymmetric advantage , and so 13:21.390 --> 13:23.501 we gotta take care of our people . We 13:23.501 --> 13:25.446 gotta be focused on building great 13:25.446 --> 13:27.334 leaders , bringing them up , um , 13:27.334 --> 13:29.446 lifting people up , helping them fell 13:29.446 --> 13:31.557 forward when they make mistakes , and 13:31.557 --> 13:33.612 then taking care of their families , 13:33.612 --> 13:35.612 because as you and I both know , we 13:35.612 --> 13:35.229 couldn't do any of this without the 13:35.229 --> 13:37.229 support of our families , uh , they 13:37.229 --> 13:38.951 serve and they sacrifice right 13:38.951 --> 13:41.062 alongside of us . And , uh , and they 13:41.062 --> 13:43.549 truly are our , our advantage . So take 13:43.549 --> 13:45.605 care of people and families would be 13:45.605 --> 13:48.750 number one . And then secondly , um , 13:48.820 --> 13:50.931 you know , I say this often , you may 13:50.931 --> 13:53.209 have heard me say it , uh , previously , 13:53.209 --> 13:55.376 we , we need to be lifelong learners . 13:55.376 --> 13:57.487 We've got to be learn it alls and not 13:57.487 --> 13:59.653 know it alls . You know , I talk about 13:59.653 --> 14:01.931 my dad pretty often . I'm proud of him . 14:01.931 --> 14:03.987 He's an army , uh , veteran , Korean 14:03.987 --> 14:06.209 War time frame , 92 years old and still 14:06.209 --> 14:08.431 kicking strong out there , and he tells 14:08.431 --> 14:10.653 me , you know , he learns something new 14:10.653 --> 14:12.876 every day . He , at his age , he learns 14:12.876 --> 14:14.987 something new every day . And we just 14:14.987 --> 14:17.320 need to approach life like that , right ? 14:17.320 --> 14:19.431 Approach life thinking about the fact 14:19.431 --> 14:21.487 that we've never arrived and that we 14:21.487 --> 14:23.598 wake up every day with an opportunity 14:23.598 --> 14:25.709 to be better than we were yesterday , 14:25.709 --> 14:27.876 to be better , stronger and faster and 14:27.876 --> 14:29.542 smarter , and we need to seek 14:29.542 --> 14:31.880 continuous self-improvement . I think 14:31.880 --> 14:34.130 if you approach life from those two 14:34.130 --> 14:36.074 things as a , as a senior enlisted 14:36.074 --> 14:38.130 leader , you'll be in a good place , 14:38.130 --> 14:40.241 you know , always taking care of your 14:40.241 --> 14:42.519 people , taking care of those families . 14:42.519 --> 14:44.686 And then continuous self-improvement . 14:45.960 --> 14:48.039 Uh , I understand . I , I'd like to 14:48.039 --> 14:50.095 kind of dive in a little bit more on 14:50.095 --> 14:52.317 one of those , a couple of those points 14:52.317 --> 14:54.483 you made , CA . First , I , I recently 14:54.483 --> 14:56.595 listened to a podcast , uh , that you 14:56.595 --> 14:58.650 were in , um , I believe it was with 14:58.650 --> 15:00.983 the Frogman Organization or Association , 15:00.983 --> 15:03.039 and in that , you , you , you talked 15:03.039 --> 15:05.317 about Your , your father there as well , 15:05.317 --> 15:07.317 and how it kinda , he is one of the 15:07.317 --> 15:09.483 leading roles as to why you joined the 15:09.483 --> 15:11.469 force , a continued a life of like 15:11.770 --> 15:13.992 service to others and how , how you got 15:13.992 --> 15:16.210 there . So , with that , like , you've 15:16.210 --> 15:19.190 served for 36 , 37 years now . 15:19.969 --> 15:22.770 What makes you show up each and every 15:22.770 --> 15:24.881 day to continue to give back to the , 15:24.881 --> 15:28.229 to this great nation ? I think , um , 15:28.440 --> 15:30.710 probably like you and , and like , like 15:30.710 --> 15:33.080 the rest of the great force that I'm 15:33.080 --> 15:37.000 surrounded by , um , one , I 15:37.000 --> 15:39.280 show up every day hoping that I can 15:39.280 --> 15:41.391 make a difference , hoping that I can 15:41.391 --> 15:43.719 make things better . Um , and so 15:43.719 --> 15:45.775 working really hard to do that every 15:45.775 --> 15:47.941 day . I show up because I'm surrounded 15:47.941 --> 15:50.119 by awesome , awesome teammates that I 15:50.119 --> 15:53.159 love working with , and , uh , you know , 15:53.400 --> 15:55.511 to , to have the chance to learn from 15:55.511 --> 15:57.760 them , maybe to teach them something 15:57.760 --> 16:00.000 every now and then , uh , but to get to 16:00.000 --> 16:01.989 serve right alongside shoulder to 16:01.989 --> 16:04.211 shoulder with those great Americans who 16:04.211 --> 16:06.289 have raised their , Right hand and , 16:06.299 --> 16:08.132 and volunteered to serve is , is 16:08.132 --> 16:11.880 awesome . I think , uh , Also , 16:12.140 --> 16:14.362 you know , like you and , and like many 16:14.362 --> 16:16.780 others , you know , I , I have , I have 16:16.780 --> 16:19.002 kids , I've even got some grandkids out 16:19.002 --> 16:21.679 there and , uh , You know , family is 16:21.679 --> 16:24.400 important to me , and so trying to make 16:24.400 --> 16:26.429 the world a better place for our 16:26.429 --> 16:28.700 families is , I think , a common theme 16:28.700 --> 16:30.644 that a lot of , a lot of folks who 16:30.644 --> 16:34.080 serve find . So I , I think , you know , 16:34.150 --> 16:36.206 every day trying to make it better , 16:36.206 --> 16:38.483 loving what I do , loving my teammates , 16:38.483 --> 16:40.706 and , uh , and hoping to make the world 16:40.706 --> 16:42.761 just a little bit better with , with 16:42.761 --> 16:44.706 anything I can do and contribute . 16:44.706 --> 16:44.630 Thank you , thank you for that feedback , 16:44.859 --> 16:47.359 Zak . And , and moving on to question , 16:47.400 --> 16:49.178 the , the , the fifth and final 16:49.178 --> 16:51.289 question , what is one thing you wish 16:51.289 --> 16:53.456 you would have known as an entry-level 16:53.456 --> 16:55.622 Master Chief or command Master Chief ? 16:55.622 --> 16:57.622 Yeah , yeah , that , that's a great 16:57.622 --> 16:59.844 question . I , I mean , there's a lot , 16:59.844 --> 17:02.011 there's a lot . I , I failed miserably 17:02.011 --> 17:03.956 a lot , and , uh , luckily , I was 17:03.956 --> 17:05.844 surrounded by great teammates who 17:05.844 --> 17:07.900 lifted me up and , and smart leaders 17:07.900 --> 17:09.956 who helped me fail forward and , and 17:09.956 --> 17:11.956 overcome mistakes . There was a lot 17:11.956 --> 17:13.900 that I needed to know as a , as an 17:13.900 --> 17:17.229 entry-level leader . Um , And I think , 17:17.308 --> 17:19.530 uh , something I've learned over time , 17:20.328 --> 17:22.384 probably more recently than , than I 17:22.384 --> 17:24.384 did a long time ago , it's taken me 17:24.384 --> 17:26.661 time to , to truly learn it , but it's , 17:26.661 --> 17:28.884 it's the power of humility , you know , 17:28.884 --> 17:31.068 pride , pride gets in the way of 17:31.068 --> 17:34.598 success really often , and I think we , 17:34.668 --> 17:37.468 we all could step back from the things 17:37.468 --> 17:40.308 we do every day and look at what we do 17:40.308 --> 17:42.530 and realize that we're , we're never as 17:42.530 --> 17:44.918 good as we think we are , um , and that 17:44.918 --> 17:47.189 there's room for improvement . For all 17:47.189 --> 17:49.729 of us , uh , every day . And , you know , 17:49.890 --> 17:52.130 great leaders do eventually learn the 17:52.130 --> 17:54.290 importance of admitting when they're 17:54.290 --> 17:57.329 wrong . I think that's important . And , 17:57.489 --> 17:59.600 and I do that more now than I've ever 17:59.600 --> 18:01.920 done . I think that builds trust , you 18:01.920 --> 18:04.142 know , it shows a level of confidence , 18:04.142 --> 18:06.380 it shows a , a level of accessibility 18:06.640 --> 18:08.751 that others need to see that in their 18:08.751 --> 18:11.400 leaders . And so it's OK to admit when 18:11.400 --> 18:13.233 you're wrong or when you've made 18:13.233 --> 18:15.880 mistakes . Um , Abraham Lincoln , I , I 18:15.880 --> 18:18.439 mentioned a book , um , just in an 18:18.439 --> 18:20.272 engagement earlier about Abraham 18:20.272 --> 18:22.359 Lincoln that I'm reading about the 18:22.359 --> 18:24.619 American experiment . And you know , he 18:24.619 --> 18:26.508 grew a lot during his time as the 18:26.508 --> 18:28.730 commander in chief and , and during the 18:28.730 --> 18:32.400 Civil War . And after the successful 18:32.400 --> 18:34.622 Vicksburg campaign , you know , Lincoln 18:34.622 --> 18:36.511 wrote a letter to General Grant . 18:36.579 --> 18:40.380 Admitting his own doubts , uh , that he 18:40.380 --> 18:42.602 had and admitting that those doubts had 18:42.602 --> 18:44.959 been misplaced and that he was wrong . 18:45.420 --> 18:47.420 And he said , uh , you know , I now 18:47.420 --> 18:49.531 wish to make the acknowledgement that 18:49.531 --> 18:51.587 you were right and I was wrong . And 18:51.587 --> 18:53.420 that's , that's pretty big for a 18:53.420 --> 18:55.531 president , uh , of that time to , to 18:55.531 --> 18:58.219 not only say it , but to , to say it in 18:58.219 --> 19:00.939 a letter , to put it down on , on paper 19:00.939 --> 19:03.161 like that , I think is important . So , 19:03.229 --> 19:05.340 I think humility is pretty powerful . 19:05.340 --> 19:07.562 And , uh , as , as you get older and as 19:07.562 --> 19:09.729 you hopefully get a little wiser , you 19:09.729 --> 19:11.896 start to learn from those mistakes you 19:11.896 --> 19:13.840 made as a younger man or a younger 19:13.840 --> 19:15.785 woman , and you learn from those , 19:15.785 --> 19:17.951 those mistakes . You learn how to be , 19:17.951 --> 19:20.118 A little more humble and you learn the 19:20.118 --> 19:23.060 power of , of humility . Absolutely . 19:23.180 --> 19:25.236 And then one of the things in one of 19:25.236 --> 19:27.458 the previous departments as in this our 19:27.458 --> 19:29.680 Majors Academy is department of command 19:29.680 --> 19:31.569 Leadership , and in that you do a 19:31.569 --> 19:33.624 leadership philosophy . And the very 19:33.624 --> 19:35.791 first line of my leadership philosophy 19:35.791 --> 19:37.900 is fail forward . So it is , it is 19:37.900 --> 19:39.622 something that I think is very 19:39.622 --> 19:41.900 important . It's extremely , uh , it's , 19:41.900 --> 19:43.733 it's paramount to learn from the 19:43.733 --> 19:45.900 lessons and mistakes you've made along 19:45.900 --> 19:48.122 the way , and I think that ties in very 19:48.122 --> 19:50.400 well to humility . Um , just thank you , 19:50.400 --> 19:52.567 thank you for that , that feedback and 19:52.567 --> 19:54.789 the , and the time . Uh , I , I believe 19:54.789 --> 19:57.011 we're coming to an end here . Uh , just 19:57.011 --> 19:59.178 wanna say thank you , uh , and , and , 19:59.178 --> 19:58.979 and give you the floor . Uh , Penny , 19:59.069 --> 20:01.069 you have any closing remarks , uh , 20:01.069 --> 20:03.236 you'd like to share for the , uh , for 20:03.236 --> 20:05.347 the audience , yeah . Yeah , thanks , 20:05.347 --> 20:07.513 thanks for having me on . I , I really 20:07.513 --> 20:09.736 appreciate the chance to , to talk with 20:09.736 --> 20:11.902 you and , and , uh , to reach out to a 20:11.902 --> 20:14.125 broader audience and , and I'm glad you 20:14.125 --> 20:13.890 brought up failing Forward , you know , 20:13.969 --> 20:15.913 I think that is a really important 20:15.913 --> 20:17.802 concept for all leaders and , and 20:17.802 --> 20:19.691 honestly , You know , for me as a 20:19.691 --> 20:22.209 parent , um , you know , watching my 20:22.209 --> 20:25.410 kids and hopefully helping them to fell 20:25.410 --> 20:27.521 forward and learn from their mistakes 20:27.521 --> 20:29.466 is really important because if you 20:29.466 --> 20:31.577 think about it , you know , you wanna 20:31.577 --> 20:33.743 let , uh , let young leaders just like 20:33.743 --> 20:35.799 our kids , you want to let them have 20:35.799 --> 20:37.966 the space and the time and the ability 20:37.966 --> 20:40.329 to , to make those small mistakes , and 20:40.329 --> 20:42.385 those little mistakes and the things 20:42.385 --> 20:44.496 you learn from those small mistakes , 20:44.496 --> 20:46.930 that'll hopefully help you , uh , you 20:46.930 --> 20:50.219 know , Prevent you from , from making 20:50.219 --> 20:52.441 bigger mistakes later on in life and so 20:52.441 --> 20:54.608 I think that's real important . Thanks 20:54.608 --> 20:56.552 for highlighting that one . Uh , I 20:56.552 --> 20:58.830 would just , I would highlight for you , 20:58.830 --> 21:00.886 um , you know , it's awesome to be a 21:00.886 --> 21:03.108 part of this joint force . It's awesome 21:03.108 --> 21:05.170 to get to , to lead alongside the 21:05.170 --> 21:07.392 chairman who's a , a great leader and a 21:07.392 --> 21:09.392 great boss who I love spending time 21:09.392 --> 21:12.400 with . And , uh , I would just ask 21:12.400 --> 21:15.000 everyone two things . One would be to , 21:15.209 --> 21:17.530 to , uh , always remember that we've 21:17.530 --> 21:19.752 got service members deployed around the 21:19.752 --> 21:23.319 globe in places of risk , um , 21:23.609 --> 21:25.498 protecting American interests and 21:25.498 --> 21:28.209 protecting American freedoms all around 21:28.209 --> 21:30.770 the globe . And so never forget that 21:30.770 --> 21:32.969 we've always got people on watch out 21:32.969 --> 21:35.449 there . And then secondly , um , let's 21:35.449 --> 21:37.505 never forget our fallen , you know , 21:37.505 --> 21:39.689 we've , uh , we've lost a lot of , of 21:39.689 --> 21:42.270 great people who , uh , those folks who 21:42.640 --> 21:45.369 stood up for what was right , those who 21:45.369 --> 21:48.250 have raised their right hand , agreed 21:48.250 --> 21:50.849 to serve their nation , and who , uh , 21:50.969 --> 21:53.025 paid the ultimate price , and , uh , 21:53.025 --> 21:55.247 let's , let's never forget our fallen . 21:55.650 --> 21:57.539 See , I thank you so much for the 21:57.539 --> 21:59.206 powerful words , the powerful 21:59.206 --> 22:01.372 conclusion . And I'd like to thank all 22:01.372 --> 22:03.594 the listeners as well for joining us on 22:03.594 --> 22:05.706 the 13th episode of A Nickel for Your 22:05.706 --> 22:07.928 Thoughts podcast and be sure to tune in 22:07.928 --> 22:10.150 for episode 14 . Thank you once again , 22:10.150 --> 22:10.310 CA . Thank you .