Committee will come to order without
objection . The chair may declare the
committee in recess at any point uh in
the hearing . I also want to admonish
the audience that this is a public
hearing but we will not tolerate
disruptions . Anybody who is disruptive
will be removed and arrested . Um Today ,
we continue our review of the fy 25
budget request for the US army . I
wanna thank our witnesses for being
here and for their service to our
nation . Uh The fy 25 defense budget is
extremely tight and that's being
generous . The fr a caps uh total
defense spending at 8 , 895 billion uh
for the year . It is less than 1%
increase over fy 24 . When you factor
in inflation , that 1% increase is
actually a 2% decrease in defense
spending . No service is hit harder
than the army . The army continues to
be the Pentagon's bill payer . The
president's budget cuts operations and
maintenance , putting readiness of the
force at risk . It cuts army research
and development including a 39%
reduction in early stage research and
development projects that are critical
to army modernization efforts . It cuts
procurement of combat vehicles and
ammunition and proposes to cancel two
major modernization programs . But for
as bad as the budget request is for the
army , it will get much worse if
Congress fails to pass the national
security supplemental . This week , the
army is struggling to pay an un uh
planned to pay the unplanned operating
costs of increased deployments and
higher operation imposes in eastern
Europe and the Middle East . The army
is also rapidly running through its
supply of interceptors as it defends
Israel and our troops from Iran's
unjustified missile and drone attacks .
Furthermore , the army is the lead
supplier of drawdown assistance to
Israel and Ukraine without supplemental
funding to replace the weapons we are
providing uh and the weapons we are
providing and expand the industrial
base . The army will be hard pressed to
meet operational requirements in the
event of a conflict with China making
matters worse is the fact that the army
continues to struggle with a historic
recruiting crisis . The army missed its
recruiting goals over the last two
years by confined 24 thou 25,000 troops .
The army is taking action though I want
to commend Secretary Wout and General
George for requesting significant
increases in this budget to improve the
quality of life for our service members
and their families . This includes
increased funding to build new and
modernize the existing barracks . It
also includes increases for programs to
expand access to childcare these
requests are close track closely with
the recommendations of our quality of
life panel . The panel's
recommendations will form the
foundation of the FY 25 NDA A . If
we're going to deter China , we need to
recruit and retain the best and
brightest , addressing the quality of
life issues our soldiers face will help
do just that I look forward to working
with my colleagues to enact these
priorities . And with that , I yield to
my friend and uh the ranking member for
any opening statement he may have .
Thank you , Mr Chairman . I appreciate
your your opening comments that you
want to thank our witnesses . Um
Secretary Warmth and General George for
being here today and for their , their
work uh on so many important issues
within the army . I just want to start
with one point that the chairman made
about the importance of passing the
supplemental . Um I think it is
enormously important for a number of
different reasons , but certainly
Ukraine is at the top of that list . I
know members of this committee
understand . I don't know if the public
more broadly does just how close to the
edge Ukraine is right now . But
crucially if they were to get more
weapons , they could successfully
defend their country . They have proven
that over the course of the two plus
years of this war absent that you will
see Russia in Kiev in the not too
distant future , we need to get that
support to Ukraine . Now , we've
already waited weeks too long and I do
also want to go on record as being
deeply concerned about the convoluted
process that the speaker announced
yesterday for trying to get that help
to Ukraine . Now , it is certainly true .
Um , that we don't always just have to
take whatever the Senate does the House
should come up with its own idea . Um ,
but we've had seven months to do that
and have not done that . So at this
point , coming up with the twisted
process that was announced yesterday
will only further delay , best case
scenario . If , if they pull this
together , maybe two months from now ,
we're able to figure this out . Uh ,
once it goes back to the Senate with
all of these additional provisions to
it that the Senate has to sort its way
through , um , that is basically
boiling Ukraine to death . Slowly . We
have an option and that option is to
pass the bill that the Senate passed
two months ago , which would go
directly to the President would be
signed and the weapons would be flowing
to Ukraine literally within days . Now
again , I'm not unsympathetic . While
the House , we can't just do what the
Senate does . We're the house , we
should exercise our own will . Sure .
We've had seven months to do it and we
haven't , haven't done anything as
we've delayed over and over and over
and over again to the point where there
is simply no time to delay further by
once again , torturing ourselves to try
to figure out what it is that the House
Republican majority might want to do on
Ukraine . As I've said , repeatedly ,
legislation is not theoretical , it has
to actually be written down and we have
run out of time . So I hope the
majority will understand the importance
of that and get something done . As the
chairman said this week , passing a
bill that is dramatically different
than the Senate bill does not get
something done this week . It is really
important that we do that . Um I will
just reiterate the points that the
chairman made , you know , quickly
quality of life recruitment enormously
important . I too want to compliment
our witnesses today for their focus on
that issue and also compliment the
chairman uh and the quality of life
panel that just came back with , I
think some excellent and strong
recommendations for how to meet those
challenges and better support uh the
men and women who serve um and
certainly the army as the largest
branch um is most directly impacted by
these issues . So if we can make those
improvements for quality of life that
will help um support our fighting force
in the way that they deserve and their
families and crucially help with
recruitment and retention to meet those
goals and objectives . And I know we've
spoken a little bit . Um there has been
some improvements um in the recruitment
issue . I know there've been a lot of
efforts made on that would be anxious
to hear from , from you both about how
that process is going and what we can
do to help further support it . Um And
lastly modernization , um the army , I
think was one of the earliest to sort
of see the future um with what you did
under , I believe Secretary Esper
started the , the night court process
to go through and where are we spending
our money ? What makes sense ? What
doesn't , how can we modernize the army
futures campaign was a very forward
thinking move the army that I think has
helped . But the goal is clear , we
have to field the best , most
innovative equipment as quickly and as
effectively as possible . What has been
seen on the battlefield in Ukraine is
how rapidly changing it all is and how
it is crucial to have those new
innovative technologies to meet the
threats and challenges that you face .
Um So again , I thank our witnesses . I
thank the chairman without a yield back .
I look forward to the testimony . Thank
the ringing member and I like to
introduce our witnesses . The honorable
Christine Wout is the Secretary of the
Army and General Randy George is the
chief of staff of the army . Welcome to
our witnesses . Secretary Warm . We'll
start with you , you recognize for five
minutes . Thank you , Chairman Rogers ,
ranking member , Smith and
distinguished members of the committee .
Thank you so much for your continued
support of our soldiers , our army ,
civilians and their families . General
George and I appear before you today at
a moment of profound transformation for
the United States army . We're
transforming our capabilities , our
force structure and our recruiting
enterprise to ensure the army is ready
and able to defeat evolving threats ,
keep pace with technology and attract
the best talent so that we remain the
world's best land fighting force . As
we pursue this transformation , we are
also taking care of our people ,
ensuring that soldiers and families
have the quality of life , they deserve
to sustain our readiness now and in the
future , this is my fourth year before
this committee . And like last year ,
the army's fy 25 budget request
continues to support the most ambitious
modernization effort the army has
pursued in 40 years . We are making
significant progress in transforming
our capabilities by staying consistent
in our modernization . Victor , would
you suspend ? I'm gonna ask the , the
individuals behind you with their hands
raised to cease and if you don't cease ,
you're going to be removed , you're not
going to disrupt this hearing . Now ,
are you gonna take your hands down or
do you wanna leave ? If they , if they
go back up , you're to be removed off ,
you know , you can officers just remove
them , just remove them . I couldn't
hear what she was saying . War is only
solved with negotiations . Mhm .
Ok . Ok . No ,
thank you madam secretary . You may may
continue . Thank you for doing that .
Chairman . Uh As I was saying , our
modernization program is making good
progress . The next generation squad
weapon integrated battle command system ,
midrange capability and precision
strike missile are just some of some
examples of the critical new systems
we've recently delivered . As we bring
these systems into our inventory . We
are also transforming our force
structure to meet the priorities of the
national defense strategy guided by the
results of our total army analysis
process . We are building out new
formations such as our five multi
domain task forces that are equipped
with the capabilities . We need to
conduct large scale combat operations
against technologically advanced
military powers and we are shrinking
excess hollow force structure so that
the units we have are manned and ready .
While these four structured decisions
bring down authorized troop levels by
about 24,000 spaces . Our decisions
will actually um our goal is to
increase the army's authorized end
strength from 445,000 to
470,000 by fiscal year 2029 .
To meet that goal , we are working
around the clock to overcome our
recruiting challenges and we are making
solid progress building on successful
initiatives like the future soldier
prep course , we are fundamentally
transforming our recruiting enterprise
to better compete in a 21st century job
market . Most significantly , we are
professionalizing our recruiting
workforce by creating new permanent
talent acquisition specialties for both
enlisted soldiers and warrant officers .
The assessment and selection of the
first cohort of warrant officers is
finished and this group will actually
be out in the field by the end of the
summer . At the same time , our
readiness depends not just on
recruiting equipping and training the
force , but also as this committee
knows , well , on the overall well
being of our soldiers and families ,
the army is dedicated to providing safe
high quality housing and barracks for
our soldiers and families . Over the
next five years , we will invest an
average of $2.1 billion every year in
the construction sustainment ,
restoration and modernization of
barracks for our unaccompanied soldiers .
This investment will also fund 100% of
the barracks sustainment requirement
for the first time in years . We are
also leveraging the expertise of our
army Corps of engineers to stabilize
project costs and we will be hiring
civilian barracks managers so that our
soldiers can focus on their war
fighting duties , physically and
emotionally healthy . Soldiers are more
resilient , higher performing and less
likely to engage in harmful behaviors
to build resilient soldiers . We are
expanding health and holistic fitness
programs to 71 of our active component
brigades . We're investing in financial
counseling services to ensure our
soldiers know how to manage their money .
And we're encouraging programs in our
divisions that focus on soldier . Well ,
being from a soldier's first day in the
army , we are focused on building
cohesive teams proactively working to
reduce harmful behaviors and build
positive climates in our formations
even as we transform and we must
because it is a very dangerous world .
We are continuing to provide combatant
commands with trained and ready
formations . This year's budget
includes $1.5 billion for activities
tied to the Pacific Deterrence
initiative . And we've asked for $460
million for operation pathways . Our
series of exercises that aims to
strengthen deterrence and build
interoperability with our partners in
the Indo Pacific in Europe . Our troops
are demonstrating our commitment to
deterring Russian aggression . The army
is leading the effort to support
Ukraine from training over 17,000
Ukrainian troops to providing hundreds
of vehicles , weapon systems and
millions of munitions in Centcom . Our
soldiers are mission focussed and
standing ready to provide further
support for Israel's defense and to
enhance regional stability . The chief
and I strongly urge the passing of a
supplemental appropriations bill that
will maintain critical support to our
partners in Europe , Asia and the
Middle East while investing in our own
readiness with your support . We'll
continue to take care of our people and
sustain the transformation that will
keep our army the best in the world .
I'm proud of all that our soldiers and
army civilians are doing in service to
the country and look forward to your
questions . Thank you , madam ,
Secretary General . You're recognized .
Ok . Thank you , Chairman , Chairman
Rogers , ranking member , Smith ,
distinguished members of the committee .
Thank you for the opportunity to talk
to you today about our army . The world
is more volatile today than I've seen
it in my 36 year career . And there is
clear cooper operation between
adversaries than we've seen in a while ,
a spark in any region could have global
impacts . Meanwhile , the character war
is changing rapidly which we see from
what is happening on battlefields in
the Ukraine , in Ukraine and in the
Middle East , our army is as important
to the joint force that is as it has
ever been . We must deter war
everywhere and be ready to respond
anywhere . So we are focused on
providing the best army with the budget .
We are given our soldiers deserve it .
The joint team deserve it deserves it .
And our nation deserves it . And that
means making some tough decisions and
finding ways to get better every day .
As the secretary already highlighted
our planned investments reflected in
the fy 25 budget will help our army win
the future fight and ensure that our
soldiers and their families remain
ready and resilient across the army .
We are learning from global events and
continuously transforming how we
operate , how we train and how we equip .
And I'd like to highlight a handful of
things we're learning that designs for
things like unmanned systems must be
modular adaptable and software defined .
We are working to get relevant
technology into the hands of our
soldiers immediately . We are learning
that counter unmanned systems must
evolve as the threat does to protect
our formations and critical
infrastructure . We're also moving out
on that . While being mindful of the
cost curve , we need cheaper solutions .
We are learning that in some cases the
right tech already exists to support
transformation . For instance , the
tech exists to make our command and
control nodes more mobile low signature
and more effective . And we are fixing
our network and we are building our
magazine depth and modernizing our
organic industrial base because we know
that wars never end as quickly as we
hope . And they take a lot of ammo . We
are also transforming how we recruit ,
ensuring that we have the right talent
and right tech and that we are getting
the word out about how our army is a
great place to serve because of our
mission and our people . Finally , we
are also looking at where we need to
reimagine our processes and where we
can afford to stop doing things that
don't support our war fighting mission
or building cohesive teams . I'm proud
of what our soldiers are doing around
the world to help defend our country .
Thank you for your support and I look
forward to your questions . Thank the
uh general . Uh And I would like to
make an announcement uh for members
here . Uh Please use the ante room for
your entering and leaving the chamber .
It is discourteous to our witnesses
and uh distracting to the panelists to
have all this activity going through
these doors back there . So I would
urge members back in the offices or
staff of members back in their offices
to advise their members of that . Um I
recognize myself the first questions uh
to the both of you . Uh can you lay out
the risks that you're taking in this
budget as relative to pre pressure from
ongoing high levels of inflation and
top line uh spending cap ? And what
does that mean in terms of our ability
to effectively deter China Russia and
Iran Secretary War Chairman , I I would
say , I think the , the challenge we
have with our um budget in terms of
managing risk are a couple one , it's
always a challenge to manage . You know ,
how do you buy down current risk or do
you buy down future risk ? You know ,
do you invest in readiness or do you
invest in modernization of programs
that won't field or several years ? For
example , the other challenge we have
of course is where do we spend that
incremental dollar ? Do we spend it on
a weapon system like our long range
hypersonic weapon or do we invest it in ,
you know , buying down basically
increasing the quality of our barracks
inventory , for example , or um or
looking at , you know , buying more com
training center rotations . Those are
the kinds of choices that the chief and
I have had to make for the last few
years . But I think , you know , on
balance in terms of our ability to deal
with China and Russia , we are
investing in the right kinds of systems .
We are making good progress with our
modernization and we're meeting all of
the demands that the com at and
commanders are putting on us right now .
General , uh your thoughts and , and I ,
I understand that you're investing in
those things . Are you investing enough
to have a deterrent effect ? That's my
concern . General . Yeah , chairman I
would uh um there's a couple of things
that we put in , uh that I put in the
unfunded prior uh on my unfunded
priority list , if we had another
dollar um that we would , that we would
spend on and some of that has to do
counter us , for example , is a large
portion that's in there . And some of
that , um since we submitted this
budget is how the world has changed and ,
and things that I think that we need to
get after . Um and then I think what
you'll also see in there , we've
invested a lot in uh in munitions and
building our , you know , our magazine
depth that we both talked about um
upfront . Um But there was a couple of
areas that we could , you know , if we
had another dollar that we would
increase and maximize to whatever the
extent of production that we could um
in magazine depth as well . But I agree
with the secretary , I think we're
investing in the things that we need to
invest in . I think we're seeing that
with specifically long range precision
fires and what's coming online , what
we're doing to invest in integrated air
and missile defense and how important
that is . Um And Encounter UAs is
something that I think we're gonna , we
have a lot of that in our budget and
we'll need to turn faster on that . Ok .
Uh Secretary War , um , and we've
talked about and , uh , you heard me
make reference to it in Melbourne's
statement , the , the recruiting
headwinds y'all been facing . Uh , how
significant do you think the
improvements in quality of life , the
measures that we're proposing that
you've requested are , are gonna impact
that , uh , that recruiting problem .
Chairman I think of course , um , it
will be helpful the more we can point
to quality barracks , um , competitive
pay with the civilian sector . For
example , I think where that's really
gonna help us is continuing to
continuing to sustain our historically
high retention . You know , honestly ,
in the data that we have , we don't see
concerns from young Americans about
whether the pay is competitive or even
whether the barracks are good quality .
Um But certainly once folks join the
army , they , they , you know , they
see their earning statement , they see
where they're living and that shapes I
think whether they wanna stay in the
army . Uh I think a lot of what we've
done to see improvements in our
recruiting has been opening up the
future soldier prep course , selecting
our recruiters in a different way and
overhauling their training to help make
them even more effective . So you don't
think competitive pay is essential in
the recruitment process . We have seen
it as we haven't seen it as a concern .
Young Americans basically right now see
the pay as relatively competitive , of
course . And I think that's , you know ,
partly because you all have passed uh
over 5% pay increase last year .
There's a budget request for another
pay increase this year . Um So I , I
don't see that the soldiers are not
indicating that that's a huge concern .
At least the folks who are looking at
joining the army , I recognize as
member . Thank you just following up on
the modernization question . When you
look at what , where it is most
important for you to modernize you .
You look at the battlefield in Ukraine
drones , counter drone force protection ,
uh long range fires . Those are
certainly the things that seem to be
most , most important in a battlefield
fight that you would be facing . And
there's , you know , a lot of concern ,
we don't have the , the level of drone
manufacturing . Um certainly in terms
of ISR drones and all of that . So I
think it's something like 90% of your
average um small , you know , I , you
know , ISR drones are made in China .
Um And what are we learning about what
we're going to need to have adequate
force protection against incoming
threats . What are the key technologies
and how are you developing them ? And
it's for both of you , but start with
secretary warmer certainly . And I know
General George will want to build on
this . Um Well , we are making
significant to get investments in
integrated air and missile defenses .
So this budget has over $2 billion for
systems like uh maneuverable shore ad
which will go along with our our
infantry forces to provide them
protection against things like drones .
We have directed energy . We have a
directed energy version of that . Um
Congressman Smith that's currently in
Centcom . We , we think it's very
important to invest in things like
directed energy and high powered
microwaves , sorry to interrupt . But
just because I was over in the Middle
East a couple of times the last couple
of months and force protection is a
huge focus obviously is directed energy
actually gonna work because we've been
talking about this forever . And it ,
it's not really field in any sort of
comprehensive way . And have we gotten
to the point where this technology is
actually going ? Is , is it worth the
investment , is it gonna help ? Is it
gonna get us there ? And is this gonna
happen ? Like , I don't know , in my
lifetime , our prototypes right now
that are in Centcom are performing
pretty well . And one of the reasons we
sent them there is we want to see how
they do in a desert environment . You
know , anytime you've got lasers with
sand , but they're performing well . I
think the more open question to which
you alluded to is can we get to a place
where they're affordable at scale and
that we are still working on ? But I
think there's a lot of promise with
both lasers and high powered microwaves ,
particularly against swarms . That ,
that's helpful . Sorry to interrupt .
No , that's OK . Why don't I let the
chief speak to some of the UAs issues .
Yeah . Um Congressman , I think first ,
you know , what we're focused on is a
layered defense . You have to have a
layered defense with , you know ,
several different capabilities . So
both kinetic and non kinetic . As the
secretary mentioned , what we're doing
over in the Middle East , we're
actually sending , we want the user uh
tester developer all there together to
make incremental improvements . We've
seen that , for example , with the
Coyote missile . Um and it's been very ,
very effective of doing that . So I
think that that's what we're looking at
broadly . You asked , um what do we
have to do to tie all this together ?
One of our big um focus areas is the
network . If you cannot command and
control , you cannot be dispersed . I
mean , what we know is that you can be
seen right now , given space and the
ubiquitous sensors that are out there .
So we have to lower our profile and I
think that's for everything that's on
the battlefield is gonna have to be
more mobile lower signature . And a lot
of that technology exists right now and
that's what we're focused on doing so
that we can tie all of these , all of
these sensors um together . But I agree
there's three places that I think we
need to move faster in and that's uh
UAs , unmanned systems ourselves .
Counter UAs and then , ew because that ,
that , that is changing in , in weeks .
And we , we need the flexibility , I
think to be able to , to change with
that . And it's something the chairman
and I have worked a great deal on . We
need to give you more flexibility uh in
terms of how you spend your money and
how you make your investments . We're ,
we're working on a variety of different
ways to do that . I think the R and D
um pretty good procurement still takes
too long . I mean , if you've got an
idea in those areas or frankly , any
innovative technology in your company
out there dod will probably help you
with the R and D . But if you actually
get to the point where you have
something that is developed and is
ready to go , we are still way too slow
in , in , in purchasing it and , and
that's undermining it . 11 final
question along those lines ,
partnerships are gonna be crucial in
meeting our production needs when it
comes to ammunition . I know there's a
Turkish company now that's getting
ready to , you know , build plant in
Texas that will be making a substantial
portion of our 155 rounds going forward .
Who are the key partners that you see
when you're trying to figure out , how
do we make sure we have enough uh
munitions and everything we need ? Who
are you thinking about partnering with
globally like we've done with Turkey
and some other uh other examples out
there . Um Congressman Smith , I would
point to a couple of examples , you
know , we , we have entered into a , an
agreement with Australia . They are
going to be producing Gimler for
example , in Australia . And they ,
they hope and we hope that that that
will expand to the precision strike
missiles . So that's a great example .
We are al also actually co producing uh
strikers with India . So I think the
more that we can find uh some of our
allies and partners who want to have
those kinds of arrangements , the
better , particularly when they are
actually in the theater because that
allows us obviously to produce
munitions in theater and not have to
bring them all the way from the United
States to a conflict . I think that's
absolutely crucial . I mean , we , we
have a lot of partners out there who
want to work with us who have
incredible production capacity . Uh
We're gonna have to work with them to
meet our needs going forward without a
yield back . Thank you , Mr Chairman ,
chairman . I recognize the gentleman
from South Carolina , Mr Wilson . Thank ,
thank you very much , Mr Chairman . And
thank both of you for your service as a
31 year veteran myself and I had three
sons uh and serving in the army uh one
year uh rock field artillery , uh
another signal in Egypt and my youngest
a year in Afghanistan . So our army
service is very , very important to me .
And uh and that's why , what , what ,
what we're into is so incredible . We
uh need your leadership now more than
ever today . The army is engaged in
multiple fronts across the globe . We
find ourselves in a war . We did not
choose of dictators with the rule of
gun invading democracies with rule of
law . This of course began with war ,
war criminal Putin invading Ukraine on
February 24 2022 and then Iran puppets
invading Israel on October 7th with the
Chinese Communist Party threatening
Taiwan . We need peace through strength ,
protecting the border of Ukraine ,
Israel , Taiwan and America . And sadly ,
with the Biden open borders , we have
so many terrorists coming across uh
into our country . What a risk uh of
this coming in and of 911 attacks
across the United States . Uh And we
understand that attacks could be
imminent as the FBI has over and over
again , warned uh it's vital that we
maintain an army uh able to rein in and
project ready forces to defend our
constitution , our interest and our
foreign allies and partners , Secretary
Warman . This weekend , we witnessed
hundreds of drones and missiles by the
regime in Tehran and his puppets
against the people of Israel . I was
grateful that despite the size of the
attacks , Israel was able with the
United States UK , France , uh our
allies to stop and defeat the uh threat ,
but this reinforces ready . Now us
military secretary wouldn't a
supplemental provide for the production
of critical munitions and benefit our
nation in building a robust defense
industrial base . Yes , congressman ,
it would actually the um passage of a
supplemental would be crucial for the
army in a number of ways . But one of
those ways is certainly allowing us to
continue to strengthen our industrial
base . For example , you've heard us
talk a lot about our goal of getting to
100,000 rounds of 155 a month . If the
supplemental does not pass , we will
not be able to reach those production
levels . And that's just one example .
And I would also highlight that those
munitions are made in American
factories with American workers so that
they benefit people right here in the
United States . And uh that point just
has got to be restated over and over .
So thank you very much . And uh general
War , uh we continue to see the
downsizing of the military with the
army's fiscal year 25 in strength
requests well below what is authorized
in strength of the fiscal year 2024 . I
was grateful , I am grateful to
represent the US army training command
at Fort Jackson South Carolina . Uh
where we have a uh great commander with
general uh Major General Jason Kelly .
And he's done so much working with the
trade . Our commanding general General
Gary Britto on running the army's
future soldier prep course , this
future soldier prep course has been so
successful . Army is already expanding
the program with the success of this
program . Do you think it's
instrumental in increasing recruitment
and should other services establish and
maintain a similar program ? Um
Congressman , we're , we're really
proud of the work that's going on down
at uh at Fort Jackson with the future
soldier prep course , we've had more
than 18,000 new soldiers that have uh
come through there . And as you
mentioned , we've expanded that um to
Fort Moore , what's , what's important
for us is is that we are taking people
out there and we're bringing them up to
our standards both academically um and
physically . And so we , we think that
that's critical . So I'll leave it to
the other services . I think the Navy
is , is , is doing something um similar ,
but we're , we're looking in the army
at this holistic recruiting and uh we
have found this to be very helpful .
Well , it , it's an excellent program
additionally , uh general , we can
learn uh from uh what's going on war
criminal . Putin is conducting ,
conducting trench warfare . We thought
that was over with , uh , uh , Putin is
also conducting , uh , a , uh ,
barbaric tactic of , uh , attacking a
civilian apartment complex . Uh , and
then a few minutes later when the , uh ,
emergency personnel come fire , uh ,
ems , uh , police , uh , that's when
the real attack comes . Uh , the intent
is to discourage the population and
also discourage the MS . Uh , what are
we doing to learn on this ? Uh h how to
address this ? I will tell you ,
congressman that we have and this is
something that we talk about almost as
much as we do . Recruiting is , is what
we're learning from the , from the
lessons in Ukraine . We have a fairly
extensive team that's over and we're
doing a lot to support Ukraine right
now over with the US Army Europe
General General Times expired chair .
And I recognize gentleman from
Connecticut , uh Mr Courtney , thank
you , Mr Chairman and thank you to both
the witnesses uh today for your service
and your testimony . Uh Just uh again ,
I want to begin by um uh foot stopping
what uh the ranking member said uh the
testimony we heard last week from
General Cavoli in terms of just how
dire the situation is in Ukraine . Um
You know , we do not have time for the
gymnastics of uh you know ,
bifurcated , fragmented uh legislative
package . We have a bill that passed 70
to 29 on February 13th , sitting uh in
the , in the clerk's desk and all it
takes is frankly just getting it to the
floor for a vote and letting it work .
Its well , which I believe will pass
the measure and get it to the
president's desk . Uh , and , um , we
heard from Transcom at our subcomittee
the other day , I mean , we know our ,
our , you know , planes are ready , our ,
you know , ships are ready to , to get
the help there . So it really the house
is the bottleneck right now and we've
just got to um move in terms of uh
solving this problem . Um Also just to
comment really quickly on the quality
of life uh measures . Uh Again , I
represent a district with the largest
military installation in New England ,
the Gratton sub base . We have E fours
and less who basically if they have
kids um rely on food assistance in
terms of snap to put food on the table .
So I , I want to applaud Mr Bacon and
um Congresswoman Houlihan for their
great work in terms of this package .
Uh The Navy was off by 7000 in terms of
their recruitment last year . And I to
me , it just is um kind of blindingly
obvious that we need to boost um you
know , the the the package to to
attract more people . Um Secretary warm
uh recently the army's uh aviation
rebalancing um announcement on February
8th uh terminated the fair program .
We've had good briefings you know ,
from your team to sort of walk through
uh folks particularly from Connecticut
in terms of the thinking uh behind that .
Um uh again , looking at the fy 25
budget , it's clear that the army has
restored procurement for 24 aircraft .
Um in terms of the Black Hawk uh
program that's there and uh obviously
sends a strong signal that the army is
committed uh to that program . Um If
Congress were to provide multi year
authority , um you know , early uh in
terms of that program , could you
execute um that authority to , again ,
just further sort of solidify the
industrial base congressman . It's
certainly our , our plan to use
multiyear authority to for that
contract when the current contract
expires , which is , I think a couple
of years from now if I'm not mistaken ,
but , but we're prepared to sit down uh
with Lockheed and Sikorsky and
negotiate that follow on contract uh in
the relatively near future . Well , I
appreciate that . I mean , again ,
clearly , I think there's a pretty
solid consensus that this is the path
forward . Our foreign um allies are
also chiming in , in terms of their
orders uh into that program . Um So ,
um you know , the benefits of early
authority in terms of just price and ,
and you know , as I said , stability uh
is in my opinion , very attractive and ,
and hopefully we can continue to work
with you in your office to try and uh
achieve that goal . Um The um
I , I honestly , that was my number 12
and three question for you here today .
So with that , I will go back . Thank
the gentlemen chair and I recognize the
gentleman from Colorado Mr Lamborn .
Thank you Mr Chairman and for having
this hearing . Uh I wanna thank you
especially General George for being
here or both of you actually . But uh
this is your first appearance as army
Chief of Staff . You're a former
commander of the storied Fourth
Infantry Division headquartered in Fort
Carson , Colorado . So welcome here .
Uh I'm really concerned because , and
we've been talking about drones and
counter drone efforts . Uh Both the
ranking member and the chairman have
addressed this and General George , I
think we're failing . Uh We do not have
a program of record for counter drone ,
either laser or directed energy
capability . Uh We , we have no program
of record . We're doing some research
and development . We've been
researching and developing for a long
time , but we have no program of record .
We're not producing any kind of
meaningful uh capability to put out in
the field . When are we gonna come to
actually having this operational
um Congressman . Uh We , we do have uh
air defense um equipment that is coming
online um that we have um right now .
Um And as I mentioned earlier , I think
this is gonna be a lettered approach .
Um And we're , we're very effectively
using coyote . Um M lids , other
systems that are , that are for , I
agree with you that we need to do more
and do it quicker . One of the things
um that I talked about a little bit
upfront that I do think we need is to
have , you know , it's changing very
rapidly . Um With drones is the
flexibility to go from R and D to
procurement . Um making sure that we
have modular open system architecture
and that we are doing things that we
can get what's what's best that's out
there . That's how fast it's moving
right now . It's changing really
quickly . A drone that you know , works
now with the ew situation changing .
You know , we need to rapidly um
advance with that . I I have to agree .
It was a marvelous effort over the
weekend to help Israel shoot down the
drones and ballistic missiles and
everything else from Iran . The only
problem with all that is that we had to
use very expensive munitions to do so
because we don't have the lower cost
lasers and high energy capabilities
fully deployed yet . That's , that's my
concern is the cost effectiveness of it
all . And when it comes to drones ,
there was an article in the Wall Street
Journal uh on the 10th of April saying
that um headline how American drones
failed to turn the tide in Ukraine
drones from American start ups have
been deemed glitchy and expensive ,
prompting Ukraine to turn to
alternatives from China and this is uh
bad news for the Pentagon which needs a
reliable supply of thousands of small
unmanned aircraft . So , on the
offensive side , when are we gonna have
uh good drones that we can use in large
numbers in places like Centcom ?
I'm , I'm , I'm pretty confident
congressman that we have the technology
here . Stateside . I mean , I just was
uh out at uh National training Center
um and saw uh a UAs it's the ghost and
it was modular , very survivable in ,
in any eew environment . So I'm
confident we can do that . Part of that
is , is what I was mentioning earlier .
I think we need to put the demand
signal on them . Um So the world , you
know , fundamentally has changed here
in the last six or eight months , we
were not able to reprogram , you know ,
this gets back to something that's
working , it's in R and D and you wanna
buy additional capabilities of it . And
because that's what companies are gonna
respond to , um I think that that
flexibility would help us . Well ,
absolutely , I have to agree with you
1000% . Uh But I don't see that demand
signal in the proposed budget . Uh
That's , that's my concern if I can
shift gears . Uh you know , Fort Carson
really well , you know , the Pinion
Canyon training site , a premier uh uh
a jewel for training uh for the army .
But there's one problem and there is
that active pipeline that goes through
part of that training range . Uh Would
you support researching and looking at
ways of mitigating the limitations that
that pipeline puts on training in at
Pinyon Canyon ? I , I'd certainly be
interested in looking into that
congressman and we can follow up with
you . I've trained at P Canyon a whole
bunch . It's a great training area . I
know our units are still getting after
it right down in that , in that
training area . So absolutely can look
at that and follow up with you . Thank
you . Let's work on that and I thank
you so much . Thank you both for being
here , Mr Chairman Iy back . Thank you ,
the gentlemen chair and I reckon , I
love the efficiency up here today . Uh
recognize the gentleman from New Jersey ,
Mr Norcross . Thank you chairman and
thank the witnesses for being here and
having this uh very focused , at least
what I'm hearing so far as we're
looking , excuse me at our industrial
base . Obviously , uh we go back a few
years and it was the night core where
we re evaluated quite frankly ,
everything that was on our agenda and
the idea that is a living document that
you've made adjustments , I think work
extremely well in what you started
there . Um We started probably
4.5 years ago building up the uh
munitions industrial base because of
the condition it was in . Quite frankly ,
if you went four years ago , you would
think you're dropping back in time to
the Second World War on some of uh the
different facilities that we have . But
the fact of the matter and I heard the
ranking member talk about the uh the
facility we're building down in Texas
for the 15 fives along with some
Turkish partners . Uh Secretary Warmer .
If you were to take a look back at how
the army , army is managing this
industrial base , what items , I mean ,
we've expanded many of them . What
still causes you concern in our
industrial base ? And let me ask that
question in lieu of the supplemental ,
which everything we did to get ready .
Unless the supplemental comes through ,
just sit there and wait . Could you
touch base on where you see we've been
and what the uh future is looking like ?
Certainly congressman , you know , I
think one of the um if there is a
silver lining to the terrible invasion
into Ukraine , it's been that it , it
allowed us to sort of drop the scales
from our eyes about the fragility of
our industrial base . And I think , you
know , thanks to a lot of the resources
that you all have provided here on
Capitol Hill , we've been able to
invest both in the army's own organic
industrial base base , uh Places like
Scranton , Holston Radford , as well as
work with our partners in the industry
to see them invest in their industrial
base so that we can create more
munitions . I , I think the two pieces ,
you know , separate from the
supplemental , which we very much need
to be able to um realize some of what
we've done with the industrial base .
Two things I think we still need to
work on . One is working with our
partners in industry to help them to
continue to identify , where do they
have difficulties sourcing particular
components or materials for things like
explosives and propellants . And then
the other um place that's been very
helpful is multiyear authority , you
all gave us multiyear authority for
Gimler , for example , for the PAC
three MS E being able to send that
consistent demand signal to our
partners as industry is very , very
healthy or it's helpful , they're more
willing to lean forward if they see
that consistent demand . So thank you
and , and the idea of a long lead item
and I heard some comments earlier about
our recruitment goals . Uh this is not
unique to the army or any of our
services . Getting that next generation
of worker to go out and want to work
with their hands is something that's
going on across . And in particular ,
the the longest lead item is the human
capital , the ability that young men
and women coming out of high school to
go to work , whether it's to serve
their nation in a uniform or to go to
work in one of our industrial factories .
And how important that is uh incredibly
important . Let me just as we assuming
we get the supplement on the time frame
we need , we are ramping up
significantly across this country and
quite frankly , in some of our
partnering nations , what happens
when it ends ? How are we going to
manage ? Because this goes to the
demand signal that we're talking about
these eps and flows that we go on . How
are you going to mitigate some of the
drop off when that happens ? Well ,
again , Congressman , I would say a
couple of things , one multiyear
authority creates more of a consistent
demand signal . And I think that's
something that will help us with
industry . We also have been rooking
our own uh total minimum requirements
for all of these kinds of munitions .
Again , I think there's a realization
now that in a protracted conflict , you
know , there are going to be huge
demands for a . So we ourselves are in
the process of looking at do we
actually need to be buying more than we
have the last few years going forward
in the future . And I think that's
something we'll have to look at
carefully . Congressman . Could I ,
could I just add one thing to that ? Um
Part of what we're trying to do also is
modernize . So if you modernize , I
give you an example down at Radford or
the Iowa ammunition plant . If you
modernize , you have the same workforce ,
but you can ex expand your output . And
I think that that's what we , that's
the big point . I think of , of
modernizing our plants that we have .
And I think the other thing that we
have to look at uh potentially is
should we stockpile hard to get things
gentleman's time expired chair . And I
recognize as a gentleman from Virginia ,
Mr Whitman , thank you , Mr Chairman .
I like to thank our witnesses for
joining us , General George . I want to
begin with you . We've seen the
proliferation of drones by Russia in
Ukraine . We see that they're using
commercial versions of drones to pretty ,
pretty good effect ISR uh pretty
rudimentary loading and munitions but
but effective in , in that realm . Uh
We see too uh our efforts , obviously
you talk about the technology side
that's fine . Uh And we see what we're
doing there at National Training Center
and other places . Uh The question is
of scale , we see scale uh happening in
Ukraine as we speak . But we also see
some threats here at home . We see over
flights us military facilities by a
small U uh UAs . We also see that
our ability to do counter UAs is
limited , especially when it comes to
scale . Again , this whole issue with
expendables is all about scale . I
don't question that we don't have the
technology , we have the technology .
The question is , is when are we going
to scale it ? When is it gonna be
operationally effective ? When is it
gonna be a deterrent ? When are we
gonna be able to use it in ways that
really have an impact on these building
threats . That is the key . And I wanna
get , get your perspective . How , how
are we gonna do that ? How are we gonna
deal with several things domestically
over flights ? How are we gonna deal
with counter UAs as we have canceled uh
the fa program ? To me , the focus
needs to be on Suas and Counter UAs .
Let me get , get your perspective .
Yeah , Congressman . Um I must share
your concern on this and the army is
leading , we have the joint uh counter
UAs office at work , the executive
authority for the um Department of
Defense and we spend a lot of time on
this and I think we have to get to your
point . Um Again , this is non kinetic
and kinetic but states sides , it's con
it's non kinetic um that we have to get
after . And I , I think that some of
this is authorities and permissions
that we're working through um obviously
with other interagency and what you
have with airlines FA FAA . Um And all
of that , I think what's gonna help us
again is I think we have to go , it's ,
it's the environment's changing really
quick . I think to , to get scale , we
have to have build things um that are
open system architecture that can plug
and play with all of our systems that
go into all of our radars and all of
our sensors . Um And then we buy the
best thing that's out there on the
market and continuing to do that . And
that's kind of where I think our point
is on flexible funding . If you could
go from R and D , you got systems that
we're working , you could buy it um
very quickly . And I think that that's
in UAs counter UAs and EW systems . I
think that that's , we're gonna have to
be on a faster schedule . Listen , I
agree . We have to operate at the speed
of relevance . We send the demand
signal . I think the technology is
there . The key is we're gonna take
some risk is not gonna be the 100%
solution . Uh That's gonna happen
immediately . We want the , the 80%
solution that can be delivered next
week , next month that I think is the
key secretary warmer . Let me ask you
another element , logistics in the Indo
Pacific key uh army in order to get
around needs watercraft . Uh As we know
the army's gone through a period of
time where now watercraft's back in the
game , Fort Eustis , Virginia , the
logistics center being able to , to
move and put that temporary facility
there . Uh Going into Gaza , it brings
to light the key for logistics and army
watercraft . The army , unfortunately ,
through the years has been divesting in
watercraft . Uh Now you look at testing
and project convergence with the Navy
and Marine Corps figuring out , hey ,
what , what should , what should the
future hold ? Give me your perspective
if it seems like we are on a roller
coaster here , you know , we , we , we
sell watercraft and now we're gonna get
back in the business of buying
watercraft . What's the army's vision
for the logistical need ? Especially in
the Pacific for army watercraft ?
Listen , our sailors are great and our
soldiers are great , but until they can
walk on water , we gotta put them in
watercraft . Thank you , Congressman .
I will say I was a little surprised
when I came in as Secretary of the Army
to see the extent to which the army had
divested its watercraft . Uh because
the distances in Indo Pacific are
obviously considerable . So we are
trying to reinvest in watercraft . You
know , we're gonna have a composite
watercraft company in Japan . Uh Very
soon we are looking at frankly um
trying to find ways to , to um in build
up our watercraft capability maybe in a
way that's a little bit more cost
affordable . So I think we're gonna be
looking at leasing and some other
options , but we are making a
significant investment in watercraft .
You know , another part of contested
logistics is obviously prepositioned
equipment . We've got to be working on
that . Uh And we've got to be
continuing to work with our allies and
partners in the region to gain greater
access and basing opportunities , which
is also really important . One key key
measure in Suas counter UAs army
watercraft , the speed of relevance
matters . Thank you . Mr Chairman . Now
you are back . Thank you , gentlemen ,
Chair . And I recognize the gentle lady
from Pennsylvania , Miss Houlahan .
Thank you , Mr Chair and thank you so
much for the opportunity to talk to you
all today . Uh I'm gonna start with
where uh the chairman and the ranking
member started uh focusing on the
urgency , the sense of urgency , uh the
dire urgency of getting our
supplemental passed um As it stands
from the Senate is the only path that I
think many of us see uh to happen . I
would like to uh not be political but
have to be for a moment . We just
recently discovered that uh votes were
going to be canceled in the June time
frame so that uh a large contingency of
the House could go to D day uh
observations for the 80th . And there
seems to be a lack of understanding of
the irony of us piling into aircraft to
go overseas to honor and observe the
80th of D day without understanding the
history that went behind that . And the
fact that the United States remained uh
largely isolated for a very long period
of time , arguably , well , way , way
too long . And then we ended up uh in a ,
in a global war , a world world War .
And I worry that we're heading towards
a World War Three if we don't do the
right thing by voting for the
supplemental and having voting , voting
for it . Now it has been . Uh now , I
think since October that we've had the
opportunity to do something , do the
right thing and we haven't done that
and speaking to World War Three , I do
not want to see our men and women in
uniform engaged in any way , shape or
form in any sort of conflict uh on any
soil . Uh But we do have to face that .
You all said that in your testimony
that this is one of the scariest times
in your , in your careers in terms of
what's going on around the world . And
so we need to think about our readiness .
We need to think about the men and
women who are in uniform . And so
that's why the work I think of the
quality of life panel has been quite
essential so that we're preparing for
the fact that um we wanna make sure
that we have the best military in the
world , which I believe that we do . So
my first question to you would be uh to
talk a little bit about the quality of
life panel . There were five categories ,
uh member , pay , spouse , employment ,
childcare , housing , and health care .
I would love to know from each of you .
Uh Which of those resonates most do you
think with you ? Well , congresswoman ,
I think they're all pretty important ,
you know . And uh II I wanna first
thank the quality of life panel for the
work that you all have done . And I
think a lot of what we've tried to put
in our budget is consistent with the
recommendations that you all made . You
know , we have a very significant
investment in barracks . I think that
is absolutely critical . There are just
too many instances that I've seen
myself where I've gone and seen
barracks that just aren't not
acceptable . So that's key . I think we
do wanna continue to look at making
sure that our soldiers are being
compensated , um , competitively with
their civilian counterparts . Health
care is a and child care is really
important . We have , um , frankly , I
think keeping families in the army ,
child care is really important and we
have been investing in CDC S . We've
also really been trying to um focus on
staffing at our CDC S because if we can ,
uh get the percentage of staff closer
to 90% we're better able to take kids
off the wait list . That , that's a , a
challenge in a lot of different places ,
but we're very focused on that . We're
giving recruiting bonuses to our child
care workers retention bonuses . Um ,
so that is really important and I think
um , spouse employment is another piece
of keeping people in the army . Um I
think one of the best things we've done
there is the career accelerator pilot ,
which is a 12 week sort of paid
fellowship to put spouses in companies
in , um , you know , small firms that
eventually lead to permanent employment
and about 40% of the participants now
are army spouses . So it's confusing .
I appreciate it in general . Yeah , I
just comment . I mean , there's , um ,
congresswoman , there's always been
five buckets when I've been a commander ,
you've , and four of them are on there .
The other one I would add , that's
always important to family of schools ,
you know , where you're gonna go to
school , um , in the local area and ,
and for us , I think it depends what
the approach that we're trying to take
is it um every location is a little bit
different . I was just up at , at joint
base , Lewis mccord , um up in
Washington and Tacoma Washington
Housing and CDC S are the two , you
know , the challenge right there and
they're um everybody's struggling to
hire workers on and off , on and off
base . And I , I think that that's
gonna be our challenge is that we're
gonna need the flexibility to get after
solutions locally because everywhere is
a little bit different . Housing is
also a problem there in other areas .
It , it may be , you know , spouse
employment or schools . And I , I ,
that's the kind of the approach that
we're , we're trying to take with these .
I absolutely look forward to working
with you guys and with the committee uh
on the next NDA A on these really
essential issues . And I agree with you
having grown up in the military as a
military child , your school really
mattered every year , moving a
different school and a different set of
rules . It definitely affects the
family . Thank you . And I yield back .
General Lady yields back . She and I
recognized gentleman from Georgia , Mr
Scott . Thank you , Mr Chairman . Um
I too hope that we get to have a vote
this week on Ukraine Aid and Israel Aid
and Taiwan Aid . Um I will say , I
personally think the speaker is doing
the right thing to separate them . I
think there are three separate issues
and whether we roll them back together
at the end of it or or not is a
leadership decision , but there are
people on in my party that will vote to
support Israel that will not vote to
support Ukraine . I think they've made
that very clear publicly and I think
there are people on the democratic side
that will vote to support Ukraine that
will not vote to support Israel . And
so I think that every member should
have the ability to vote their
convictions on each of those . And more
importantly than that in , in our
democracy . I think the citizens should
have the right to see how their members
vote uh as we go into this election
cycle . Um Jim George ,
um you've been in the military a long
time and I'm all quote a historian ,
an army historian , uh veil mater from
oil and war , no matter how well fed
equipped and officer without oil and
gasoline , the modern arm army is a
hopeless monster mired and marked for
destruction . Uh Was he correct in
those comments ? I I missed the first
part without oil and gasoline is that
does , does the military need oil and
gas to function ? Yes , we
do . Congressman , the Russians are
have shown no mercy in attacking the
energy infrastructure in Ukraine
regardless of what type of energy
infrastructure it is , including the
oil and gas . Um in a war . If your
energy is targeting your oil and gas
and your energy infrastructure and you
were the commanding general , would you
attack theirs as well ?
Well , I , I don't really on
hypothetical situations . I guess I
would , uh , you know , we normally do ,
um , a center of gravity analysis
congressman and kind of determine what ,
you know , targets that we think would
be most effective um , to achieve in
our aims . Well , I would think it
would be a pretty simple decision to
attack the diesel that was allowing the ,
uh , your enemy's tanks to run if they
were using those tanks to fire on you .
And , and we don't understand , I don't
understand why President Biden thinks
it's ok for the Russians to attack the
oil and gas infrastructure in Ukraine
and , and the Ukrainians not to attack
the oil and gas infrastructure uh in
Russia . I mean , Secretary warm . Can
you tell me why President Biden is
opposed to , um , the
Ukrainians attacking the oil and gas
infrastructure in Russia when it is the
oil and gas infrastructure in Russia
that is funding the war against Ukraine .
As General George said , Congressman II ,
I think the Ukrainian military and
again , this is , you know , outside
the sphere of our title 10
responsibility . So I myself am not
having conversations with the Ukrainian
military leadership , but I think , you
know , as General George said , we
would be looking at the range of
targets and how lucrative those targets
are . There may be targets in terms of
a military perspective that may have
more immediate detrimental effect than
hitting the energy targets . For
example ,
you know , good and well in a war when
someone's firing at you , you fire back
at them . That's all there is to it .
You can't let them attack your oil and
gas infrastructure and your energy
supply and you not attack theirs , even
if they're not attacking yours . If you
want to win , you're going to attack
theirs . That's just all there is to it .
I would only add congressman that given
the relative scarcity of munitions that
the Ukrainians have at this point in
part because they're waiting for us to
pass the supplement madam Secretary
with all due respect . The reasons the
Russians have as many weapons as they
have is because Joe Biden did not
enforce the sanctions against Russia
and Putin took all of that money from
his growing economy and he put it into
weapons manufacturing . If Joe Biden
had enforced the sanctions against the
Russians . Putin would not have the
weapons that he has and he would not
have been able to rebuild the military
that he has . I hope we get the
supplemental done . I hope we get the
supplemental done , but the White House
has not done their job in helping to
win this war . I yield , Jen . I
recognize you from Massachusetts , Mr
Moulton . I just gotta say , I mean ,
the hypocrisy , the utter hypocrisy
of House Republicans refusing for
clearly political reasons to pass
Ukraine aid and then blaming Joe Biden .
I mean , I have been critical of
certain aspects of this Ukraine war .
I'm not afraid to criticize a
democratic administration , but the
alternative is a president who has said
and has proven he will support Putin
and Russia . That's the alternative
here .
It's amazing to focus for
a second on China General George . Can
you just articulate to me what the
army's strategy is in the Pacific ? The
Marine Corps has laid out a very clear
strategy for how the Marine Corps will
be used to deter and counter a Chinese
aggression in the Pacific . What is the
army's role ? Um Congressman , thanks
for the question . First , I was , you
know , we're a global army and , you
know , we're very busy around uh the
world . Um One of the things that we
have not done as busy as we've been ,
we have been very focused in our forces
um out in the Pacific and what um we ,
what I always say is that it , there's
no such thing as an air or maritime
theater . It's a joint theater and I
think the army plays a huge role over
there . Um So I'm gonna , I'll run down
and give you some of the examples . I
think we've seen just how effective and
hard to target land based , long range
precision fires are . Um , we're
continuing to add those . Um And right
now we have the medium range capability
that's actually out and exercising with
our partners um out in the Indo Pacific ,
I think that we bring um integrated air
and missile defense to the joint force
and to our partners um in assisting
with that . I think the army plays a
huge role in contested logistics . Um
The question came up earlier um before
us . So it is , it's prepositioned
stocks and what we're gonna do , those
are gonna be joint um missions uh that
are over there . So I think we have a ,
we have a big role and um I'd end with
command and control because I think
that that's something that we have um
exercise on a daily basis around the
world in large scale operations .
You're ready to go to war today if
that's necessary . But are we , are we
where we need to be for the China fight
in the Pacific or do we have more work
to do ? II I , how we're looking at
this is I think we're , we gotta get
better every day . And I mean , that's
our , that's what we're tasking
everybody to do . I think we need to
grow . Um , ad A forces is one as an
example that I think , and we talked
about getting , you know , recruiting
more and growing that capability . But
I think we're on a great path forward
with the capabilities that we have and
now it's just expanding those
capabilities . Yes . So that's exactly
my concern . You've hit the nail on the
head general , the capabilities that we
have . A lot of your modernization
efforts seem to be on modernizing
existing capabilities . And yet in the
war in Ukraine , uh we've seen how
$5000 drones can very easily take out
$5 million tanks . Now , the Marine
Corps has , has a much more aggressive
modernization program where they're
just saying we got to move on . We make
some tough divestitures not saying that
you can't find some use for a tank .
But the Marine Corps has said we're
going to get rid of tanks . We're going
to invest in , in long range rockets
and missiles . We're going to do things
to fundamentally change the nature and
constitution of Marine rifle units at
the lowest level to make them more
lethal and effective in today's world .
Why is the army pursuing a , an
incremental modernization strategy
rather than a revolutionary strategy ?
I , I actually don't think that we are
and I will tell you first congressman
is that uh we're still gonna need tanks .
We're still gonna need artillery and
we're still gonna , the army is still
gonna be , our country is still gonna
require that for us . So we can't , I'm
talking around , I'm talking around the
world and we , we are , we are gonna
need that capability in other places .
But we are , are you divers of any of
it ? Um , we have , we are making
adjustments , we're buying additional
long range fires . Um We're taking a
look at our whole um fires portfolio .
I'm just , I'm almost out of time . But
secretary , do you think the the army
modernization schedule is fast enough ?
Congressman , we always want to be
faster . I think General George and I
are very focused on figuring out how
can we go faster . Um But you can go
faster , get rid of old stuff you don't
need or is not as relevant today . We
are doing some tough criticism for this ,
but as a result , they're really
modernizing their force at a pace that
can at least have a chance of keeping
up with China's modernization efforts
and , and I just worry that the army is
hanging on too much to , to old gear .
Well , we just decided not to pursue
the future aerial reconnaissance
aircraft . We also have stopped
operating shadow and Raven . So I would
give those as examples of things that
we've uh divested pretty recently so
that we can recognize from Nebraska ,
Mr Bacon . Thank you both for being
here . There you go . I know it's hard
to find who's , who's speaking . I want
to talk about the suicide rates we've
been hearing about with the armor units .
Uh , we hear they're significantly
higher than the other specialties . Uh ,
some thoughts are , it's because of the
high ops tempo and the rotating
deployments to Poland . What is your
assessment of why the suicide rates are
significantly higher for armor
personnel , congressman ? We are
looking into that because we want to
better understand it . O our data shows
actually that um the suicide rates are ,
are higher actually in our striker
units , they're , they're higher
generally in striker , armored and
light inventory . Um So , so it's not
just the armor folks and I'm not even
sure that the armored units are having
the highest rates but , but we wanna
understand what's happening there . I I
do worry about the op tempo for those
units . Um And one of the things that
we are going to do or , and are already
doing for a number of reasons , but to
include trying to make sure we're
reducing pressure on those soldiers is
lengthening the windows in rearm . You
know , we had said that basically they
would have eight months to , to , to
glory eight months to come back and do
modernization . And we found that in
reality , they just can't move that
fast . So we're gonna lengthen those
windows to give them more time . Uh But
we're gonna look further into that
because we obviously want to prevent
suicides everywhere we possibly can .
You're right . I have one , just one
source . So maybe that data isn't right ,
but it was concerning to read . It's
absolutely concerning and , you know ,
and again , and we share that and I'd
be happy to follow up with you and have
our folks talk more about the data that
we have . Is there any thought about
permanent basing in Poland ? I think ,
you know , there are pros and cons
associated with permanent basing . Um
You know , it's gonna be overseas ,
military construction . We would wanna
build schools and the kinds of
amenities that our families would need .
Certainly , that would have some
benefits in terms of operational tempo .
And I think the polls , I'm sure would
be very interested in hosting us in a
permanent way . Um But I think , you
know , we'll , we'll continue to look
at those kinds of issues as we look at
force posture in Europe going forward .
Ok . Can I mention just one thing
congressman , the other thing we've
done is made an adjustment on this . Um
For example , we had an ABC T that was
rotating to Korea , Korea . It's now a
uh a striker unit that's doing that .
And I think the other thing in , in
looking , um , agree with the secretary ,
I think that the challenge would be on
anything permanent basing . It'd be
like , ok , what do we , where is it
gonna come from ? You know what unit ,
is it gonna come from state side ? And
so right now , we have flexibility , I
think with deploying our units that ,
that um helps and there's probably
other things that we need to grow . Um
Right now , if we're gonna grow a new
unit like air defense artillery or
counter UAs batteries or some of those
other capabilities . Thank you . Uh
Turning to barracks , I appreciate your
plan for increasing your spending and
trying to repair the damage that's been
done over the last decade . And you've
already addressed this . So I won't
drill into that so much . But I , I am
curious how did we get there ? Because
I , when I was the commander of
Ramstein in 2008 9 , I was commander of
office 2011 and 12 . I had four star
generals inspecting the dorms and if
they would have been bad , I would have
got fired . So I'm trying to figure out
what happened and army , but it seems
to be in all the services where we let
the standards decrease to the level we
did because I just trying to understand
it . Any thoughts on that congressman ,
my view is , it's a , um , there are a
lot of factors at play . It's a little
bit like recruiting , you know , a lot
of things went into it . Uh We didn't
kind of get into the crisis overnight .
Uh , and I think it's a little bit the
same with barracks . Um , part of it is ,
you know , we have an enormous
inventory . We have the biggest
inventory of barracks of any service .
Uh A lot of our barracks are in places
where we're experiencing climate change
and the temperature is increasing , the
humidity is increasing and all of that
makes maintaining barracks more
complicated . Some of it frankly , I'm
sad to say is the , is the um harvest
of sequestration if you will . You know ,
we went in and we basically cut lots of
folks out of our departments of public
works all across installations all
across the country . And that meant we
had fewer people overseeing the
barracks . And some of it is , I think ,
you know , the army has always
struggled to find enough to invest in
barracks and do modernization and other
things . So I think there's a lot of
things that went into it , but we are
very committed now to doing everything
we can to get out of it . Thank you
with three seconds left . I'll , I'll
yield the remainder of my time back .
Very generous of you . J and I
recognize the gentleman from California ,
Mr Gary Mindy . Thank you . I'll take
the five minutes , 30 seconds . Thank
you . No . Uh
I , I really want to follow up on what
uh the ranking member Mr Smith raised
early on and that has to do with the
process of getting a supplemental done .
It is , it appears as though we're
headed for a very complex uh mechanism
that may very well cause significant
delay in the enactment of the
supplemental . And so for , uh ,
Secretary Wout and General George ,
could you speak to the imm nacy of the
problem of not having a supplemental
for these many months ? In fact , it's
been one year since the Congress has
voted for any support for Ukraine . So
if you could speak to the nature of the
problem that you're facing ? Certainly
congressman . Um , you know , first of
all , I think in terms of the imminence
issue , as General Cavoli said when he
was here last week , I believe , you
know , the Ukrainians are in dire need .
They are running very low on ammunition .
They're running very low on patriot
interceptors . You know , the things
that they need to intercept all the mi
the missiles that the Russians are ,
are launching at them . Uh , and the
sooner the supplemental passes , the
sooner we can turn the spigot back . He
said he actually said a matter of a few
weeks and then redefined it to probably
three weeks , get done or else . Yeah ,
it is very concerning . It is very
concerning and , uh , for the army ,
you know , in terms of imminence , we
have been cash flowing almost $800
million to support largely the
Ukrainians , all of the training that
we've done for them . But , but also
some of the work we've done in Centcom
and if a supplemental doesn't pass for
us , probably by the end of May , we
are going to have to look at things
like reducing our participation in the
K four mission or canceling our
participation in exercises in the 3rd
and 4th quarter because we just don't
have the money to be able to pay for
any of that . So those are some of the
time sensitive issues for us . General ,
anything to add . Yeah . The only other
time sensitive thing that I would add
to what the secretary um mentioned is
uh we were the question came up earlier
about magazine depth and , and 15 fives
every , you know , every bit we're
waiting , we are not modernizing our
own industrial base and we're not
actually increasing our own magazine
depth . We , we will be able to go to
100,000 rounds of 155 millimeter a
month um for production . But without
the supplemental , you know , we'll ,
we'll stop well short of that . So I
think that that's what it does for us
as well . Thank you . Uh Very few of us
are left here , both Democrat and
Republican , but this is here . And now
uh the problem that ranking member
Smith pointed out at the outset of this
hearing is very , very real add any
bell and whistle to the supplemental
that was passed by the Senate and the
delay will be substantial . Well , pass
the dates that were given to us by
General Cavalli and by General George
and by Secretary Wout . Uh we really
cannot play this game any longer . It's
on us to get it done . And specifically ,
it's on our Republican colleagues don't
play a game , don't try to seek
perfection . I do have another set of
issues that I want to put on the table .
We did talk about this earlier uh in
our earlier meetings , but the
contested logistics and the intra intra
theater logistics . Um
My colleague from uh Massachusetts who
happens to have been a Mar or is a
Marine , uh seems to think that the
army ought to be the Marine Corps ,
however , that won't happen . But the
fact of the matter , the Pacific is
different . How , what do you need to
be able to operate intra theater in the
Pacific things that you don't now have
that you need to have congressman .
I'll start and then quickly turn to
General George . I , I think as uh one
of the other members of the committee
pointed out watercraft is very , very
key . So we are investing in that and
we are exploring , you know , what we
can do to , to grow our capability
there in a cost effective way . Uh
Another thing that we need that , you
know , frankly is , is more controlled
by our allies and friends in the
theater is access , you know , because
the more we're able to put our soldiers
there with their capabilities , the
better , the more effective we'll be in
that theater . Uh And so that's
something we're working on . And then
another thing I would point to is , is
the kind of co production of munitions
like what we're gonna be doing with
Australia that will be very helpful
from a logistics perspective . I claim
my 30 seconds gentleman gentleman's
times expired chair and I recognize the
gentleman from Guam , Mr Moreland .
Thank you , Mr Chairman uh secretary .
The top item on Indo Paycom S unfunded
priority list is Guam's missile defense
system . This system is largely
operated by the United States army
personnel now will will an increase in
funding for the Guam missile defense
improve the army's ability to defend my
constituents . Thank you , Congressman .
Uh We are very focused on the defense
of Guam . Um At the same time , it is ,
it is absolutely going to be a joint
mission and a joint responsibility .
We're working very closely , for
example , with the Navy on defense of
Guam , we have money in our budget to
um enable us to be able to bring
forward a defense of Guam by Fy 27 .
It'll be a mix of patriots , THS that
are already , you know , they are in
Guam . I had the opportunity to visit
our Thaad Battery there and then some
of our newer systems like the , the if
pick and we'll have a battalion of that
by the Fy 27 . So I think , I think the
money in our budget uh right now is
gonna keep us on path to be able to
build out the defense of Guam as we've
planned , however , we do have a top
number one unfunded priority . So
that's my concern . General . Can you
expand on that importancy of the
missile defense and getting it fully
funded ? Yeah , I wouldn't . Um ,
Congressman , I think to what the
secretary said , I mean , the army , um ,
our big role is , is actually , is , is
helping technically and , um , Mr Bush
is kind of helping with that and our
acquisition professionals and
integrated air missile defense to
figure how to get that together . Um
But it's air force and navy , there's a
navy base there , there's an air force
base . Um Right now , there's just one
army um battalion that's on the ground .
So I think we're leaning in fully um to
help do this and understand the
importance of doing it . And I know
that there's a team led by the under
Secretary of the Navy . Um that's
actually pulling all of that together
and we're doing whatever we can to uh
support and really focusing on the
technical aspect of uh the , the
solution there . I appreciate it .
Thank you . And uh secretary , I'm also
very proud to represent many of my
constituents who are members of the
Guam National Guard , Brigadier General
Cruz , the Adjutant General of Guam
Guard , relate to me his wish to have
closeness and presence amongst the
forces on island . How is the Guam
Guard being incorporated into the
strategic planning for future
operations on Guam ? And will the joint
the new joint task force micronesia
impact the Guam Guard's operation
congressman right now . My
understanding is that a lot of the
great , uh , national Guard soldiers on
Guam are providing some of the force
protection for some of the active duty
army folks and are doing a great job .
I actually had the opportunity to meet
your tag when I was in Guam last summer ,
I think . Um , and we're very open to
exploring how the Guam Guard can be
more involved as JTF Micronesia stands
up . I'll be happy to see that they're
part of the joint task force Micronesia
to give their inputs . These folks are
no Guam live . Guam know all the roads .
If disaster happens , there'll be an
asset . So I thank you for that . And
my last question last year , General
Car Carl testified that demand for
Thaad and Patriot systems has all pay
supply . He stated , quote , every
combatant command wants more patriot .
They need more tha unquote . So has
anything changed with respect to this
demand signal ? Especially for Indo
paycom , with respect to Guam .
Congressman , we continue to see huge
demand for our air defenders . Uh
Whether it's patriot fad , you know ,
with everything happening in the Middle
East right now , they're wanted there .
Uh They're wanted in Indo paycom ,
they're wanted in ucom . What we are
doing in addition to growing our
capabilities is we are growing our
force structure for our air defenders .
So we are trying to create , we're
creating an additional patriot
battalion over the next several years
and we're also creating new um what we
call indirect fire protection
capability battalions . So we're trying
to grow our air defender community to
give us more supply . Thank you for
your testimonies . Mr Chairman I , you
back . I thank the gentleman chair and
I recognize generally from Michigan
Miss Luckin . Thank you , Mr Chairman .
Um I just will reiterate the calls of
so many of my colleagues on the urgency
which you all have articulated of
getting our supplemental package ,
bipartisan package um voted on this
week in the house . And I just want to
say since we've been in here , there's
been rumors on Twitter that again , on
the Republican side , there is a threat
to Speaker Johnson , a potential motion
to vote Kate to remove him because of
this vote . And I just want to say very
openly and publicly um that there is a
bunch of Democrats willing to have a
conversation about helping in that
scenario . If it means we get this
supplemental through this week , that's
how important this is to national
security to America's leadership role
in the world to making sure that
Ukraine is not rolled . Um The first
time a democracy would be rolled since
World War too . So um I just wanna
state that outright . Um It is insane
to me that we are so desperate in
Ukraine that the Pentagon notified with
the Department of Justice , the
transfer of of uh Iranian weapons that
we seized off of Yemen to Ukraine . And
the insanity of that I think is lost ,
I hope on no one . So , um in , in any
case , you all know that the
consequences of that um shifting gears ,
um Secretary Warm , it's great to see
you . Thank you for coming to Michigan
and seeing all the great ground
vehicles that we make in Michigan . Um
Obviously that's our sweet spot and our ,
our skill set . Um And I just wanna ask
you a number of questions . Um They're
not trick questions . It's just to help
us grapple with what we are growingly
growing concern over in Michigan ,
which is the threat of Chinese electric
vehicles on the commercial side ,
flooding the United States the way they
flooded the eu . So just uh a pure sort
of yes or no question . I , I believe I
know the answers , but would you
support Chinese produced cameras being
put on our ground vehicles in the army ?
No . Would you support Chinese radar
technology being put on ground vehicles
in the army ? No . Would you support
Chinese made lidar being used on ground
vehicles in the army ? No , not if we
can avoid it . Would you support
Chinese software that would process all
the information from those cameras ?
The radar , the liar in American mi
military vehicles , not combat vehicles ?
No . Ok . Um And uh uh my colleagues
have um we've all taken a lot of votes
on the threat of things like tiktok and
the Chinese government having access to
all this personal information um uh of
Americans , what I would pose is that
we are about to have a big moment of
inflection here with the possibility of
the saturation of Chinese electric
vehicles being sold in the United
States . The first Chinese electric
vehicle sold in the in Europe was in
2021 . They now have up to 25% of
market share . That means every vehicle
collecting information , collecting ,
mapping , data , collecting all kinds
of information about our cities , our
infrastructure locations , our military
bases and everything else . Um So II I
make this point only to say that our
military would never allow the national
security risk of those Chinese
components of those Chinese things
being on our military vehicles . Why
would we open the door with a red
carpet to allow those same Chinese
commercial vehicles , that same
technology rolling around every single
American city , every single American
town . So um I will be submitting a
number of amendments in the NDA A that
just help us make clear that from an
American military perspective , we're
never going to use those component
parts and and and I know we have buy
American requirements so that shouldn't
be hard to fulfill . But I'm also gonna
be asking that the experts on ground
vehicles um provide assessment of what
that kind of Chinese technology would
do in the United States of America .
Again , commercially , um And what kind
of national security risk that would
pose ? So , um , uh I appreciate your
participation in that and thank you for ,
for coming . And I yield back
chair , I recognize General from
Alabama Mr Strong . Thank you ,
Chairman Rogers . And thanks to each of
our distinguished panel , uh persons
for being here today . Redstone Arsenal
in my district is a Federal Center of
Excellence , but the army gave us um a
start back in 1941 . And because of
that , every day is army day in
Huntsville . As my colleagues know I
could and would gladly spend the entire
hearing sharing all the great things
that the army is doing . Redstone
Arsenal . But unfortunately , I only
have five minutes . However , I'd like ,
uh I'd be remiss if I didn't express
excitement about the newest army cross
function team . Uh The All Domain
Sensing CFT , standing up shop at
Redstone Arsenal four out of 10 CFTS
isn't too bad if you ask me and only
further prove that uh you can't talk
about army priorities and mos
modernization without talking about
North Alabama Secretary , uh warm with
the fy 2018 NDA A mandated that
mature MD A programs should be
transferred to services . However ,
Congress repealed that requirement
after sustained advocacy from the
Pentagon sharing how this would be
highly disruptive , especially to
programs like Thaad . Is this still the
dod s view that uh this would be
disruptive congressman ? Um
There are a lot of conversations that
happen inside of the Pentagon that I'm
not necessarily always aware of . But I
think at this point , there's not any ,
any plan to transfer MD A A MD A
responsibilities to the army . Thank
you . Given the sudden change of policy ,
this committee is going to need a very
clear explanation uh as to why can I
have your commitment to provide a
written report on the reasoning ?
Certainly , I'm happy to have our team
lay out kind of our thinking on where
that is right now . Thank you . I
remain focused on our nation's uh
hypersonic fielding strategy ,
especially relating to the work coming
out of the army's rapid capabilities
and critical technologies office ,
otherwise known as Rick , which is
headquartered at Redstone to the extent
you can share in this uh venue . I have
two questions . How is the army uh
progressing in the long range
hypersonic weap weapons program and how
is the fielding of the new units to
operate these systems progressing ? Uh
happy to give you a quick update ,
Congressman . Um The work on the long
range hypersonic weapon is , is going
well , you know , obviously when we had
um when we didn't have a successful
test most recently , we've spent a lot
of that time looking at what happened
there . How do we understand it ? How
do we fix the problem so that the test
that we'll have later this year will be
successful ? And I think we have a good
handle on that . We've been working
very closely with the Navy in the
meantime , uh , the unit out at JB LM
that will eventually get the round ,
the hypersonic round has been training
with their ground equipment and so
they're gonna be ready to go just as
soon as we get that all up round to
them . I don't know . Chief if you
wanna add . Yeah , I just , I just was
out congressman and , and went through
that unit and they're ready to go ,
they're actually training . Um and
whenever we get the missile to them ,
um which I think will be shortly that
are gonna be ready to go . That's what
we like to hear . Secretary of Warm
General George . Uh I want to applaud
your efforts and that of the , the
sergeant major for your support of the
army's efforts in the uh space domain .
The space mission area is only
continuing to grow as proven by the
stand up of space force . However , as
you both know , the army is still the
top user of space in the Department of
Defense . It is my understanding that
several months ago , the army approved
the elevation of space operations
career field from a function area to a
branch . I have three questions . What
is the status as to where the army uh
stands with the space branch ? When can
you expect it to roll out ? What help
do you need from this committee to help ?
Sorry Congressman . You know , we , we
work closely with our colleagues in the
Space Force . Uh As you said , we're
the biggest consumer of , of space
based capabilities . Um in , in terms
of sort of the specifics that you'd
asked about . I'd like to take that
question for the record and get back to
you unless the chief wants to add
something . Yeah , I'll just add
Congressman because I just was uh
general Ganey was just , we were just
having this discussion . Um Actually ,
um so we haven't . Uh and right now
we're , we're analyzing um obviously ,
space is very , very important to us .
Um There are several uh branches right
now or functional areas like in
military intelligence , um certain
aspects of air defense , artillery and
signal and all of those that have been
going back and forth . And so what
we're trying to determine , um if we do ,
you know , go with the branch , what is
it gonna look like and how we're gonna
do that ? But we're , we're invested in ,
in space and we'll continue and I will
tell you that it , it's uh we're ,
we're growing that um with what we're
doing like for our uh multi domain task
forces um that all have a space
component in there . So it's uh
critically important and we , we are
happy to come talk to you about how
we're looking to move forward . General
times expired chair . And I recognize
General from New York . Mr Ryan . Thank
you , Mr Chair . Uh Thank you both for
being here . Uh Just want to build on
many of the questions actually , uh
particularly around innovation and
modernization . Um I feel like in the
last few years , we've really seen and
experienced a preview of what God
forbid , we were to fight a major war ,
what it would look like , particularly
between Ukraine and Russia , some of
the T TT PS there . Uh And then even
just over this weekend , what we saw uh
in the way that in an unprecedented
attack uh in and of itself , but also
the employment of a atrial drones and ,
and various other means by Iran against
our ally , Israel based on all of that .
What are you all at a high level taking
away from ? I , I think in some ways
it's an opportunity for us to w without
our own forces directly engaged , learn
and quickly urgently adaptt . So what
are the high level takeaways there ?
And then specifically can you talk
about how that ties into project
convergence ? Uh and , and what you see
coming out of that uh uh in terms of
technology and , and uh command and
control specifically and sort of JC two .
I know it's a , a lot there . Uh start
with you madam secretary , please .
Thank you . And I'll make sure to be
concise so that the chief has time .
You know , I think lessons learned from
Ukraine from what we're seeing right
now with Israel validate in a lot of
ways the programs that the army has
been investing in in recent years . You
know , the incredible importance of
integrated air and missile defenses .
You know , we saw that how important
that was this weekend , the army is
investing in that in very significant
ways . Um The importance of UAs and
counter UAs in a , in a transparent
battlefield . You know , again , we've ,
since 2020 we've invested over $3
billion in UAs and counter UAs . We
need to do more and we need to do it
more quickly as we've talked about
quite a bit . Um the importance of long
range fires . You know , again ,
whether it's precision strike missile ,
whether it's our midrange capability
that that is ground launched and has a
mobile seeker that allows us to hit
ships incredibly important . I think
all of what we've seen in Ukraine and
what they've done with the Russian Navy
underscores that let me turn it to the
chief . Yeah , I would say um broadly
congressman that you're gonna have to
be mobile and low signature on today's
battlefield , which really affects
everything else and why we're starting
with the um with the network . I think
everybody has seen that American
equipment works really well . Um So I
think that that that is uh and what is
good about that is our partners and
allies that are buying that same stuff
and we're using it and helps with our
in or out operability magazine depth .
I think we've covered that a couple of
times of how important that is . So we
could go on for a long time about
lessons learned and we're , and we're
really focused on that . Um What can we
3D print , for example , what can we ,
how can we use added manufacturing and
tele maintenance so that we can reduce
our um logistical um footprint that's
out there . But we're , we're looking
at this in every war fighting function
and really across all what's open
source , you know , and what's at the
more higher end ? Ew is another one
we're learning , you know , the
electromagnetic environment um is
changing , you know , almost on a daily
basis . And so how do we adapt to that ?
Appreciate that to push you a little
bit . Can you give a few specific
examples of with speed and urgency some
new programs ? And I and I spoke about
convergence in JC two , but if there
are other other things that I know it's
a quick term , but we've now had , you
know , a few years of this , are there
specific investments in this year's
budget that you think directly speak to
the high level points that you , you
know , rightly brought up ? I'll , I'll
mention a couple , we're , we're
actually adjusting our network right
now and doing that inside what we're ,
you know , we're changing from and what
we're talking about is not dragging
around big antennas and having server
stacks . So we're making those kinds of
things and So we're investing in other
um capabilities . We're also buying um
other short range reconnaissance . Um
UAs , you'll see other aspects in our
budget , the same thing on , on counter
UAs . So there are things where uh
prism is an example for long range
fires and we could go down a lot of
what we were like the secretary said ,
producing is , um , is , is what's
gonna work on today's battlefield , um
anywhere it's gonna deploy . And um ,
we just , I think on the smaller
systems UAs counter UAs those are the
ones that we need to , I think pour a
little more fuel on the fire on those .
And Congress and I would just add also
the integrated battle command control
system that's gonna tie together a lot
of the air and missile defenses , that
kind of capability allows us to be able
to share data , not just across army
platforms , but with other services .
And I think that's going to be critical
for J AC two G's time expired chair and
I recognize General from Indiana . Mr
Banks . Thank you , Mr Chairman . Um
Secretary Warm is race a factor in
admissions to the army's officer
candidate school . To be
honest , congressman , I'm not sure off
the top of my head , we basically are
looking for the best qualified diverse
folks to come into our officer corps .
So the army has said repeatedly that
affirmative action at West Point is
quote critical to our national security .
So why is it critical at West Point .
You don't seem to know about officer
candidate school . But why would , why
would it be , why would it be critical
to our national security to protect
affirmative action at West Point
Congressman ? I think it's the , the
same reason would be true for O CS and
our West Point officers . It's to try
to make sure that we have the best
qualified , diverse set of people to
the le to lead a , you know , enormous
army made up of people from all
different races , all different
religions , all different demographics .
The Supreme Court's ban on affirmative
action at universities obviously
applies to ROTC programs . Has that
ruling harmed our national security . I
think we're still , you know , seeing
the implications of the Supreme Court's
decision , but in the meantime , we're
doing everything we can to recruit the
best possible folks into our officer
corps and to the army more broadly .
But if the army says it over and over
again , I mean , what , what , what
does it really mean ? That quote ,
affirmative action is critical to our
national security . I'm , I'm just
wondering what , what does that mean
specifically ? I think what I think is
critical to our national , what I think
is affirmative action critical to our
national security . What's critical to
our national security is having the
best qualified officers . We can have
to lead our soldiers . A large , you
know , number of our soldiers are
African American or Hispanic are women
and we wanna make sure that they have
leaders that they look up to , that
they have things in common with and
that they see as credible . So I think
we wanna have a diverse set of leaders
to lead a diverse set of Americans who
are serving in the army is affirmative
action . The only way to accomplish
that . Well , we're , I think , you
know , we're taking a number of factors
into account . And does it seem
hypocritical that affirmative action at
West Point ? But not for OTC , uh , how
does the army compute that
Congressman ? I think , you know ,
frankly , I was a little puzzled at the
Supreme Court's decision and the fact
that they created a carve out for the
military academies when they decided
that affirmative action , uh , wasn't
legal for all of the colleges and
universities . Well , it just seems
interesting to me why , why would they
treat the academies differently from
regular civilian colleges and
universities ? I , I wasn't sure what
the line of thinking there was , but
I'm , I'm not an attorney . So Congress
eliminated affirmative action to , for ,
I agree it is puzzling . Um , if
Congress ended affirmative action at
West Point , would the army abide by
that ? And like every other college and
university in America and , and do away
with it , the army is going to abide by
the laws of the United States . So ,
yes , I think if Congress passes a law ,
we'll abide by it at a conference at
Duke University , you said , quote
today , more than 80% of recruits come
from military families . There is a
risk of developing a warrior caste
when only 1% of the population serves
in the military . What did you mean by
that ? What I meant by that is , I
think if you have , um , the
preponderance of folks in the army
coming from army families , you have a
possibility of becoming more and more
distant from the 99% of the other
Americans who aren't , who aren't
familiar with the military . And I just
think that's something you want to
guard against . I think it's healthy
for us in the army to have a , a as you
know , a broader represent , broader
representation as possible . Where is
the biggest source of military
recruitment ? Where , where does that
come from ? We get people from all
across the country . We take a lot of
people from the South and South
military families . Yes , about 80% of
service members . How far off is the
army of its current recruitment goals
right now ? We're actually on pace . I
think I don't want to get overly
confident , but I think we're going to
make our recruiting this year , which
is a goal of 55,000 contracts . So you
agree that you've reduced your goals
from last year when you were way off
the mark . We had a very ambitious goal
last year . I think General George and
I agree that a goal of 55,000 new
soldiers plus 5000 in the delayed
program is healthy . I take it from
what you just said is the army
intentionally avoiding new recruits for
military families . And this is really
stunning . No , certainly not . We are
very proud of warrior cast . We're very
proud of all of the folks who come from
military families and we welcome them
with open arms , really shocking
testimony . Mr Chairman , I yield back
gentleman's time expired chair and I
recognize a gentle lady from Texas MS
Escobar . Thank you so much , Mr
Chairman and many thanks to our
witnesses . Um I want to reiterate a
couple of things that my colleagues
mentioned . Number one , it really is
stunning to me that um Republicans have
unfortunately stood in the way of help
to Ukraine uh especially as Ukraine is
on this very dangerous precipice . Um
Number two , I want to also say that
I'm so proud of the work that the
quality of life uh panel did and the
work that we've reported out . I'm
grateful to the chair and the ranking
member for their support and encourage
of this work . And I look forward uh to
working on implementation once the
House , the Senate have passed this and
the president has signed . But I want
to turn my attention to Fort Bliss uh
incredible military installation that I
have the honor and privilege of
representing Secretary Warmth General
George . I was so pleased to see the
$44 million in additional funding
included in the budget request to
complete the rail yard at Fort Bliss .
Following the $74 million investment
requested , authorized and appropriated
for the project . In fiscal year 24 the
rail yard is a critical infrastructure
requirement . I've advocated for
throughout my time in Congress and I'd
love for you to speak to the importance
of these mil con investments to support
Fort Bliss's power projection mission
requirements , please . Certainly ,
thank you , congresswoman and I'll turn
it over to General George . Um shortly ,
you know , a as you alluded to , it is
very important for us to be able to
project power out of the United States ,
you know , to flow our forces wherever
they may be needed and sometimes
they're needed on very short notice .
So those railheads like the one at Fort
Bliss are key to us being able to , you
know , move our soldiers equipment out
rapidly . And , um , you know , we , we
have a number of infrastructure
requirements for power production that
we're continuing to get after . But I'm
very glad we were able to put the
investment towards the one at Fort
Bliss chief . Yeah ,
congresswoman um uh Bliss is a great
place um to train . It's a great place
for our families . Um So we , we , we
uh it's a crown jewel for us down there .
And I think , um like the secretary
said to get First Armored Division and
all of the other units that we have
important units to include air defense
artillery out of there . Um having a
really good railhead and being able to
move that those formations quickly is ,
is critically important to us and
that's what that's gonna provide .
Thank you both so much , Secretary
Warner . I understand that through
earlier iterations of the army's 2030
modernization plan and the stationing
actions to follow Fort Bliss was
projected to receive an IRA or extended
reign Canon Artillery Battalion in
fiscal year 26 . As you know , the
intent behind this was to provide
improved lethality and range to our
armored brigade combat teams such as
the first armored division which I'm so
honored to represent . Given the
relatively recent decision to cancel
the Ira program . Can you speak very
broadly on the army 2030 objective to
deliver precise longer range fires and
specifically how will post cancellation
recalibration efforts address the first
armored division's need for improved
fire capabilities ? Thank you ,
Congresswoman . Um as we've said at a
number of times during this hearing ,
you know , long range precision fires
are incredibly important to the army
and , and we see their value , you know ,
playing out right now on the
battlefield in Ukraine , we did make
the decision to not go forward with Ira
because of some significant engineering
challenges that were jeopardizing
soldier safety . Uh But we still have
the requirement for that kind of a fire
system with that kind of range . So
this summer , we're actually gonna be
doing a performance demo with industry .
There are other other systems systems
out there that we think may be able to
meet our needs . And I think it's
possible that we could even sign a
contract for production in fy 25 . So I
think you're still gonna see an I A
like capability if you will eventually
going to Fort Bliss , but we just have
to do some work this summer to look at
what's out there . Ok . Thank you both
so much . Appreciate it . Um Just about
out of time I yell back . General
yields back chair and I recognize the
gentleman from Florida , Mr Walton .
Thank you , Mr Chair madam , Secretary
General George . Thank you for the ,
for the meeting a few days ago . Uh I
just wanna talk to you for a moment
about again about recruiting and the
crisis that we're in uh in particular
junior ROTC programs in our high
schools . Uh Senator Wicker and I in
the last uh NDA A with the support of
many on this committee increased . Uh
the cap for the number of Junior ROTC
programs from 3500 to 4000 .
Unfortunately , uh the president's
budget requests nowhere near funds
these programs and just for everybody
watching and listening , we're talking
about 2 to 3 people half of their
cost because the school system covers
the other half . So really this is what
you call in the Pentagon budget dust ,
but I think the impact is huge . Uh You
get , you know , there's a lot of talk
about Gen Z doesn't know what it's like
to serve or wanna serve . Well , now
you have Gen Z that's showing up right
place , right time , right ? Uniform ,
positive , male and female role models ,
leadership , discipline , followership ,
teamwork . And even if they don't join
the military , you get a better citizen
out of it . I think you would agree .
Yes , thank you . Um And what I have
here is a correlation of the states
where you have the highest
concentration of Junior ROTC programs
mainly in the Southeast and the Midwest ,
you have your highest percentage of
recruiting here and here that are
actually joining . So my question is
why do we have uh the army
shutting down Junior ROTC programs uh
right now ? And what's concerning in
line with the diversity goals that you
were just talking to with
representative banks ? 80% of the
junior ROTC programs and the high
schools that are being shut down are in
minority majority high schools , 80% of
the ones being shut down . Can you
speak to that ? Secretary warmer ? Why
is that ? How does that fit your
recruiting goals ? How does that fit
your diversity goals ? Shutting down
minority majority junior ROTC programs ?
First of all , I want to say , I
completely agree with you that JROTC
programs are great . I've had the
opportunity to visit a number and the
kids in those programs are terrific .
Will you commit to work with us to
increase what the President's budget
requests requested ? Because I think
the outsized impact the Bang for the
Bucks uh is tremendous . Yeah , I , I
think if there's a way to get
additional funding for these programs ,
you know , that would be helpful to us ,
the limiting factor is really is
funding and then also instructors ,
finding people , you know , who are
qualified and who we also broadened in
the last NDA A , the type of people
that can serve as instructors and
increase their pay . But please
continue . That's helpful because in
many cases , frankly , congressman ,
it's the , it's the instructors and the
availability of instructors that can be
a limiting factor . And you'll recall
there was , I think a series of news
articles looking at some very
unfortunate circumstances where we had
instructors engaging in very
inappropriate ways with some of those
cadets . So we want to make sure we
have the right people , you know ?
Absolutely . And I think those are
outliers . I think the vast majority of
RT C are continuing to serve just in
the interest of time . Please take a
hard look at the programs you're
shutting down and where uh uh number
one , and we'll have a measure to
reduce the number of minimum cadets in
this next NDAA . I think if you have 50
60 70 kids , that's , that program
should , should continue right now .
It's at 100 and that puts them on the
list to be shut down . So I , we ,
we'll work with you to look at that ,
just switching uh uh topics very
quickly . We've talked about uh the
cuts to our soft enterprise to our
special operators . Uh General George
you . Well , and everyone knows it was ,
it was green Berets . I'm proud , proud
to say that we're training the
Ukrainians from 2014 on to get them
ready for this fight . I think they've
had an outsized impact and will
continue in great war competition . Uh
One of the biggest concerns is
misinformation . Uh We're seeing that
in Gaza , we're seeing misinformation
in the Pacific . We're seeing with a
lot of talk in this town about
misinformation yet , the biggest cuts
are to s iops . Uh Why is that
secretary warmer ? Um Congressman , my
understanding is actually the
preponderance of the 3000 slots that
are being reduced are actually enablers .
They're um communicators , their
administrative support people . I think
that uh socom and Solek have worked
very hard to have very targeted
reductions to authorizations and that
the reductions to si up are relatively
small out of that broader 3000 . We'll
rook that and then just in a few
seconds , I have uh remaining back to
the EV issue . Are there any charging
stations in Ukraine or Africa or
anywhere else ? I think we did take a
hard look at the carbon neutral goal ,
what we're doing to . Although I will
say I want to foot stop what he said
about JROTC . Those are ex outstanding
programs . We need to do everything we
can to maintain those . As with that ,
I recognize the general lady from New
Jersey , MS Cheryl . Thank you , Mr
Chairman . Um As you've stated , the
army continues to aggressively pursue
modernization as a top priority to
ensure our land forces can dominate any
future battlefield . And as we've seen
in Ukraine , the ability to strike at
extended ranges allows forces to hit
deeper into enemy territory while
maintaining a standoff . And when we
talk about long range precision fires ,
many default to precision rockets and
missiles . But the reality is that
while these systems have their place ,
they're not an economic solution for
any sustained large scale conflict . So
you mentioned that you think there are
um opportunities out there with the
cancellation of the extended range
cannon artillery program um to meet
some needs even um having some
procurement goals . You said , I think
fy 25 are there any other research uh
and other programs you're pursuing to
ensure we achieve overmatch against any
potential enemy with our current and
future howitzer platforms ?
I'll talk about this a little bit
congresswoman . So , um yeah , we are
looking , uh and I agree with you ,
it's not just this gets the same thing
as integrated air and missile defense
with long range fires . Um You know ,
with the , with the extended
battlefield , we'll need um mortars ,
um artillery , all of that we're
looking um , at that . And I think what
we're looking at right now is how do we
become more mobile on the battlefield
with all of those systems ? Excuse me .
And then we also got to look at the
round , what can we do to adjust the
round ? Um And we're , we've done a lot
with energetics and , and made some
adjustments so that we're not changing
out our systems that we're actually
getting um increased range , increased
accuracy and increased lethality , um
by , by using that as well . So we're ,
we're trying to look at it in , in
totality . And then the other thing I
do think that um , there are loitering
munitions and other things that we can
do that we can reduce the cost on that ,
that will also um expand the
battlefield . That is , we are um
looking at those as well .
Thank you . And um our support to
Ukraine has also opened our eyes to the
shortcomings in our defense industrial
base , especially for artillery ,
artillery shells that continue to show
their nece necessity in modern warfare .
So Ukraine is limited to firing . I
believe I last heard 2000 artillery
shells a day , roughly one third of
Russia's capacity due to shortages . If
the US is to find itself in a large
scale conflict , our industrial base
must be able to quickly and effectively
increase production of critical
munitions to support our armed forces .
So , um madam Secretary , this
committee has done much to support the
army ammunition production base . What
further investments are needed to
ensure our organic industrial base can
scale production of munitions to meet
the requirements of not only uh today
with respect to Ukraine but potential
conflict in the future . Thank you ,
Congresswoman . Um the , the work
that's been done , you know , at places
like Picatinny and elsewhere in the
past couple of years has just been
outstanding . I think we've
strengthened our industrial base
considerably . Um In terms of future
investments , our budget invests a
billion dollars a year across the five
years in our organic industrial base .
So in our 23 arsenals ammo plants uh
and depots . And then of course , we ,
we need to work with our partners in
industry to continue to build up our
munitions . And so this budget requests
over $3 billion a year uh for munitions ,
you know , everything from javelins to
stingers to gimler to pack three MS E .
Uh So there's a very substantial
investment in munitions and the broader
industrial base in this budget request .
Thank you . And then um as we've seen
from the war in Ukraine , it's given us
valuable lessons learned as we prepare
our forces for large scale combat
operations . It's one thing to develop
and adopt technologies such as drones
and electromagnetic warfare , but we
have to incorporate those lessons into
doctrine training in the organization
of our land forces . So General George ,
can you provide an overview of how the
army is incorporating lessons from
Ukraine . Um at echelon , how are
soldiers mastering these new
technologies while also working on old
school tasks such as trench warfare and
analog communications ? And finally ,
how are we preparing to counter the
lessons ? Our adversaries are learning
from this conflict as well ? Ok . Um
Thanks for the question , congresswoman .
So we , we have , I'll try to be quick .
We have uh center for army lessons
learned over there . Trade do is
leading this but really all the
organizations from the army , Army
Futures Command making sure that we're
learning what we're doing . And we say
there's a difference between a lesson
observed and a lesson learned to , for
it to be learned . We have to change
how we train , we have to change how we
equip and how we operate . We've been
at CT CS , I've been out to every one
of them here the last three months and
we are doing that one quick example is ,
you know , we haven't been looking up
and you know , with drones and what you
can be um how you can be seen . And now
signature management is , is is
increasing in latest times expired
chair . I recognize from Florida . Mr
Jimenez . Thank you . Thank you very
much . And um I wanna follow up a
little bit with uh with uh my colleague
from uh from Florida in , in terms of
electrification . Um Secretary , do you
believe that uh that climate change is ,
is the greatest threat that , that we ,
we , uh we face as a nation
congressman . Unfortunately , right now
we face a number of extremely
pronounced threats , whether it's
Russia , China , Iran . But I think
climate change , is it the greatest
threat that we face as a nation
existential threat we face ? I
generally don't support sort of one to
endless priorities , but I think
climate change is a concern for us .
Certainly . Do you , do you believe
that what's more important for a weapon
system to be carbon dioxide neutral or
is it to be effective ? Of course ,
it's for it to be operationally
effective . Very good . Thank you . So
I , I would hope that when we look at
uh at this uh charged electrification
that we look at effectiveness more . Uh
It's the only really effectiveness is
to me is the only criteria that we need
to follow . Uh So secretary , um one of
my biggest concerns is that our defense
industrial base and the current status
of the 155 milli millimeter stockpiles .
What is the army doing to invest in the
industrial industrial base ? Uh
Congressman , we've invested a billion
dollars in the organic industrial base ,
the base that we control and then we
have over $3 billion in our budget for
munitions . I think the , the biggest
thing that would be really helpful is
if the Congress is able to pass the
supplemental , we will be able to get
up to the target we've set of 100,000
rounds per month of 155 millimeter
shells . If the supplemental doesn't
pass , we won't be able to reach that
target . Well , I think we agree on
that . I actually support the
supplemental , uh , or at least parts
of the supplemental . I mean , the ,
the ones to me that , that concerns me
that the , the benefit that I get from
the supplementals that we help our
allies , but we also help our
industrial base and we need to ramp up
our industrial base really quickly . Um ,
and I obviously you're concerned with ,
with our stockpiles of the 155
millimeter . Yes . Yes . I'm , I'm very
supportive of , you know , investing
that money so that we can build up
those stockpiles . Uh What is the size
of the current army right now ? I
believe we are at 452,000 active
duty soldiers . Is that big enough to
deal with the threats that we're facing
all over the world ? We've been able to
meet the combatant commander um ,
requirements . Yes , we have , but
General George and I are committed to
increasing the size of the army in
particular , the active component . Uh
Well , we're aiming to get to about
470,000 congressmen by 2029 .
Will that be sufficient to face our ,
our , our threats around the world or
potential threats around the world ?
Obviously , talking about the potential
threat of China . Uh What's the size of
their army . I , I think they have a
very large army , particularly because
they have a very large , uh , police
force as well , an interior ministry
force . And that's , that's considered
part of the army . Uh , it , it has
some similar roles to the army . Yes .
Ok . Uh , is it significantly bigger
than ours ? I think congressman , it
may be bigger than ours . But one thing
I will tell you that I think is a huge
comparative advantage for the United
States army is the quality of our
soldiers and our leaders . That is a
comparative advantage for us . We are
much more effective and able to execute
mission command than the Chinese army
and that translates to combat
effectiveness . All right , General
George is my understanding of the army
is working on to upgrade the precision
strike missile uh weapon system and
increase its range to more than 1000
kilometers . Um known as uh pr sm
increment for the army requires
additional funding in fiscal 25 to
maintain the schedule and resource , a
competitive program . This is one of
the army's highest modernization
priorities because of its relevance to
the end of paycom theater and contested
environments . The current uh missile
has a maximum range of 500 kg um and
can reach only a small percentage of
identified uh uh maritime and land
based targets in China . Is that
correct ? Um Congressman . Um
Yes , prism is a very important uh
missile for us long range fires and
we're , we're working on research and
development and how we can take the
range out . There's other increments
and we can come by and brief you on
those different increments that um
allow us to hit um mobile um targets as
well . So that is part of our portfolio .
And the great thing about the that
system and that um missile is it , it
works with our high mars , which we
know the those um ground based um
fires have been extremely effective .
They've proven that in uh in Ukraine
and they can hide and move and very
hard to target . So what is , what is
your target date for uh for operation
of the , the new enhanced missile ?
Well , we're getting um well , actually
some of prisons will come online um
here this , this calendar year and
towns expired uh chair and I recognize
Jen Lady from Hawaii , MTA . Thank you ,
Mr chair secretary warmth . I
appreciate the extent to which you have
made childcare priority for the
Department of the Army under your
leadership . Last week , military.com
released a damning article detailing
systemic delays in reporting child
abuse and harm in the Department of
Defense's Child Development Centers .
Too many instances when processes and
systems or lack thereof have failed .
Our Children and our families given
that the army owns and operates the
majority of the department's Child
Development centers . Its policies on
child care are especially important and
impactful in reviewing army regulation
on child development services . The
section reporting requirements for
allegations of child abuse is quite
frankly confusing . Uh The threshold
for action is far too high , especially
when we are talking about potential
child abuse . It takes too long and
quite frankly , the determination of
what sufficient credibility means is
subjective , noticeably missing from
this section of the regulation is any
mention of notifying parents and legal
guardians . In fact , the regulation
only explicitly requires parents to be
notified about their child and very
limited circumstances in medical
emergencies . Instances of communicable
disease , acute illness , unusual
occurrence , excursions , availability
of care change in personnel . No
mention of child abuse secretary War in
the interest of the health and safety
of our Children . What steps can the
army take to clear up its policies on
reporting these instances of child
abuse and ensure that parents and legal
guardians are part of those policies .
Thank you , Congresswoman and uh as a
mom who has two grown kids now , but
who had kids in daycare centers , I
would certainly want to be notified if
something had happened . So , what I'd
like to propose is that our team work
with your office to look at the
regulation and look at some ways um
that we can strengthen it and make sure
that we're notifying parents . Um If
something happens with their child , we
certainly , we wanna make sure that
that happens . I will say we have very
high standards for the employees who
work in our CDC S , they go through
background checks and , um , you know ,
I wanna make sure we don't have any
instances of inappropriate behavior .
But I think on balance the quality of
our CDC employees is very high . I've
been very impressed with what I've seen .
Thank you . And then the bottom line is
those policies need to be , um , you
know , reflective of the actions we
like to see and we have to make sure we
hold them accountable . Um military.com
also reported that some updated policy
is marked as cu I controlled
unclassified information , making it
difficult for some parents to see those
policies and actually know the
information they should be getting
about their Children . Um Secretary ,
would you please explain why these
policy documents have been marked cu I
in many cases and what will the army do
to make sure that parents and legal
guardians are clearly informed of these
policies ? Um As I'm sure , you know ,
Congressman Cui I think stands for
basically , you know , unclassified
information . It's , you know , but ,
but it is official purposes , but we
wanna make sure that parents understand
what our policies are and have access
to that information . So I'm confident
we can find a way to make sure that our
regulations and policies are available
for parent parents and we can be
transparent with them . Thank you .
We'd like to remove as many barriers as
possible for parents to know how their
Children are doing and the care that
they're receiving . Um One last issue
I'd like to flag is the fact that the
regulations rely significantly on
individual garrisons to implement
standard operating procedures . Meaning
there is no clear single unified
standard . Not only does this create a
patchwork of procedures for reporting
incidents , but it also makes it harder
quite frankly to track these issues
more broadly between garrisons
secretary . What is the department
doing to implement a clear unified
standard for documenting incidences of
all kinds at Army Child Development
centers , especially especially for
those incidences involving child abuse .
Congresswoman , what I'd like to do is
take for the record that question so
that I get back to you with accurate
information . I do think we wanna have
a clear consistent standard for all of
our CDC S . But I also want to
emphasize that I think there's a um
every installation is different , every
installation has different programs .
So my goal would be to try to make sure
we have a clear standard , but we still
give our Garrison commanders
flexibility so that we can tailor to
what makes sense to their area . Thank
you . I look forward to those responses
and while we all want flexibility ,
bottom line is we all want our Children
uh to be safe . You know , I cannot
understate how absolutely unacceptable .
Um All of these things are that were in
the article that's happening even in my
hometown of Hawaii . And how important
it is that the Department act quickly
to fix these issues that were raised in
the story itself . Uh This is a broken
trust and for the state of readiness ,
we've been talking about today for our
military , men and women to do their
jobs , they need to trust that their
families as well are also safe . And I
worry that if we don't act quickly and
we don't aggressively enough tackle
this issue about how we keep our
Children safe in child care
institutions , we erode that trust and
make it even harder to recruit and
retain the talent that we need . Thank
you , Mr Chair . You got General Lee's
times expired chair and I recognize you
from Texas , Doctor Jackson . Thank you ,
Mr Chairman . I appreciate it . Thank
you to our witnesses for being here
today . I really appreciate your time .
Um The Army's at a pivotal moment in
time right now where uh we must
modernize our force to meet the
challenges of the future conflict . Uh
But we need to assure we are leveraging
our investments in the right way uh
with , with our strategic focus on the
Indo Pacific , we must prepare and
adapt for the vast ranges and contested
battle spaces in which we will operate
uh in the Army's Aviation investment
rebalance announcement . I was happy to
hear that you both are fully committed
and dedicated to the future long-range
assault aircraft and the Bell V 280 .
As you both certainly know , I've been
one of the Chief Advocates here in
Congress for the army's aviation
modernization efforts . Uh I think we
all understand that this new aircraft
is a massive leap ahead in terms of
capability flying twice as fa uh twice
as far and twice as fast compared to
the helicopters that will replace uh
General George . I would like to ask
you can uh can you assure us that the
uh that the army has an ironclad
commitment to this program ? And can
you describe in uh some detail how the
new capabilities provided by this
platform will be advantageous ,
advantageous to our operational forces
and why it's so critical to the future
of the army ? Um Sure , Congressman , I
I it is a leap ahead technology . I
think it's gonna change how we're able
to insert um forces on the , on the
battlefield and do a plethora of
missions with this . It's also gonna
give us the ability . Um What we've
been working on to working with is as
far as other launched effects that
could come with this program . So it's
gonna , it's gonna provide a
significant cap capability . We are um
committed to it . And um ok ,
I also want to point out too as an
emergency medicine physician and uh and
a physician in the military that served
in the combat in a combat zone as well .
Uh I fully understand the importance of
what we used to refer to as the golden
hour , but obviously , uh you know ,
time is , uh , I , I is translated into
lives and lives that we will or won't
save , uh , with the Indo Pacific in
particular . Obviously , there's gonna
be some long medevac distances . Uh And
iii I believe that some of these , uh ,
b two eighties are gonna be , uh , are
gonna be outfitted specifically for
that mission . And I think that , uh I
can't reiterate how important that's
gonna be in a future conflict to be
able to get uh uh someone from the
point of injury on the battlefield to
the , to the next higher level of care .
And I think that this platform is right
now , the only thing that's gonna be
able to do that uh in the budget
request for this year , it looks like
there's a roughly 1.26 billion included
for uh future long-range assault
aircraft development . Uh General
George , um can you speak to that
funding ? Uh you know , can uh what ,
what that funding will provide for
future long-range assault aircraft
program ? And is it the amount of
funding ? Uh is it the right amount to
keep this program on track and uh and
on schedule to fill the first
operational unit in fy 30 ? Yeah , the
uh I think it is the right amount um
Congressman to make sure that we , you
know , keep everything on track and
keep moving forward . And um like you
said , and I mentioned just a couple of
missions . This will , will be the ,
this aircraft with its speed and um its
legs , how far it can fly will , will
be a multi mission aircraft force . And
it's important that we get it into the
force as soon as we can . Well , thank
you as a member of this committee , I'm
committed to doing everything I can to
make sure that we stay on track and you
have everything you need to , to make
that happen because I believe in it as
well . Uh Real quickly , I just wanted
to ask you a quick question . A few
weeks ago , the commander for SOCOM uh
uh told the intelligence Special
operations subcomittee about the
dangers of the proposed cuts to the
Special Operations Forces in the army .
Uh I get it with constrained budgets
and record inflations . Difficult
decisions have to be made by cutting
specialized personnel and the unique
capabilities from the force . Uh I
don't think , I think that it's a
little bit strategically short sighted .
Uh It undercuts our strategy to compete
and deter our adversaries . Uh because
I , I promise you our adversaries are
not doing the same . Uh When when asked
about the army's decision to cut these
special forces . General General Fenton
said the challenge is that it's against
the backdrop of ever increasing demands
from our combat uh from our combatant
commands . 100 and 50% increase or more
in our crisis response missions over
the last three years . And this
ever-changing more challenging
character and environment of war and I
agree with him on that . I think things ,
you know , with the new , uh , uh ,
focus on the Indo Pacific and the , the ,
uh , the continued focus on
counterterrorism and , and , uh , the ,
uh , uh , the , the global war on
terrorism . I don't think that's going
away . Uh , I've been briefed on this
topic and I was told not to worry about
it because it , it's not the operators
that are being cut . It's just the
enablers or the uh those positions . Uh
I , I just want to reiterate that I
think that those enablers uh have a lot
of extra training , training when
through these units and they're very
special in their own regard . And I
don't think they can be easily replaced
or interchanged . And so I uh I , I
wanted to ask you , uh what are your
thoughts on this number uh on , on ,
you know , what , what can you can you
tell me what the level of risk is uh
that we're absorbing by cutting these
3000 soft personnel during a time where
conflicts are growing worldwide again .
Um We left it up to SOCOM to look
specifically at these cuts ,
congressmen , but um actually the , the
enablers that they were cut were the
least deployed um that we had had units
that we had in the army and um we are
still not general from Virginia , MS
mcclellan . Thank you , Mr Chairman .
Um madam Secretary . You may recall
that last year we had a conversation
about child care and you've gotten a
couple of questions , I wanna follow up
on today and I , if I recall correctly ,
you said one of the biggest challenges
that , um , the army faces . And I
think this is probably true across
branches , um , was with the workforce
and with the , um , length of time it
takes to get through background checks .
And I just want to follow up a , a year
later to see uh if there are any steps
that the army has , has taken to try to ,
um , uh , streamline that process .
Well , congressman , uh if , if only I
as secretary of the army controlled the ,
um , security clearance process , uh
because that , that is often a uh a
moment in the pipeline that takes quite
a while . There is a separate agency in
dod that's responsible for security
clearances and background checks . So
that's , um , outside of the army's
control . But we are certainly doing
everything we can to try to , you know ,
help folks who are applying to our CDC
S to help them fill out the forms in
ways that , you know , reduce the
number of questions and back and forth
that they get . Um , but , but the
background check continues to be , you
know , a bit of a long pole in the tent .
At the same time , I will just say to ,
um , Congresswoman Taka's points , you
know , that security clearance is
important . We do wanna make sure the
people we hire are . And I don't ii , I
don't doubt that . I know . I , I think
it's , I think if it is the largest
challenge to fill in these childcare
centers , you know , I've had over the
past year , I've spent a lot of time
either visiting bases across the , you
know , not just the army , talking to
CDC providers , talking to service
members . And it is a critical issue
that I hear . Um , one of the biggest
issues with recruitment and intention
and retention and frankly morale is the
inability to have quality affordable
child care . And when they can't get it
on base , there's also a crisis in the
community where the base is and we've
got to be , you know , do everything we
can . So I don't disagree with you that
they have to go through the background
check . Um But , but if it's one of the
biggest impediments , we also gotta do
something to fix that impediment . One
of the other impediments that I hear is ,
or , or , or one of the programs that I
have heard is benefits with tuition
assistance , professional development .
Uh that the dod is trying to give to
recruit and retain employees at child
care centers . But a lot of these
employees don't know that these
benefits are available . And I heard
that directly from um employees and
their supervisors . Can you tell me
whether the army has conducted a review
to ensure that uh employees and
potential employees know about these
benefits that are available as they are
uh recruiting and trying to retain
their childcare workers . Congresswoman ,
I don't think that we've done a review
at , at the headquarters level . Uh
That's something we can talk to our G
nine about doing that . I think um our
garrison commanders who are usually the
folks who are interfacing most often
with the CDC S and the employees .
There are very aware of the different
um incentives we have , whether it's ,
you know , recruiting bonuses , whether
it is discounts for people who work in
the CDC , for their Children to go
there . You know , first child goes
free , second child goes 50% off . Our
garrison commanders are , I think very
familiar with those , but we can
certainly look at how we can do more to
get that message out . I'd suggest you
do that because there are a lot of
people that , that just don't know . Um
given the developing Russia China
partnership , um we've seen it's more
important than ever that the US work
with its allies to deter threats . And ,
and obviously , this weekend was a
perfect example of the importance of
that . Can you elaborate ? Um Either of
you um on how the army has sought to
deepen its ties with partner , uh
partner nation militaries at all level ,
um from industrial based coordinations
to technological interoperability and
multilateral training . Uh A couple of
things I'd highlight on that
congresswoman and then turn it over to
General George first , we have
something called Security Force
Assistance Brigades . We have five of
those , they're each aligned to a
combatant command . So for example ,
the S fab in the Indo Pacific works
with 12 different partner countries
there doing amazing things uh on the
industrial base . You know , we are
gonna be uh the Australians are gonna
be co producing Gimler missiles for us .
And then another program I would
highlight is the terrific state
partnership program that our Army
National Guard has with countries all
around the world that does training .
So those are just some examples . Thank
you . I'll just uh 88 state partnership
program just to plug for the guard and
what they're doing . And every time I
go to Romania , um all what I hear ,
the first thing I hear is roll tide .
So I know they're having an impact over
there . Um The secretary mentioned Aus
pillar two . That's something that
we're working with both the Australians
and the and the UK generally times
aspire . You not recognized general
from Missouri Mr Alford . Uh Thank you ,
Mr Chair and thank you ranking member
for this important uh hearing today .
And thank you for our witnesses . Um As
our witnesses know , my district hosts
Army's Fort Leonard Wood home to
training and doctor and command
Maneuver support Center of excellence
under the leadership of Commanding
General Beck . Uh The maneuver support
center of excellence is the only
location for soldiers and army leaders
to hone their expertise as engineers ,
military police , chemical , biological ,
radiological and nuclear seaburn
specialists . Later this week , sappers
at Fort Leonard Wood will compete in
the annual best sapper competition . I
encourage everyone to watch on Fort
Linwood's Facebook page us . Army ,
Fort Leonard Wood . It starts this
Friday ought to be good . I want to
thank in particular the army and
personally thank you Secretary Waru for
going to Fort Leonard Wood for your
attention that you have paid to this
distinguished installation in the
president's budget . $144 million is
now dedicated to advanced individual
training barracks at Fort Leonard Wood .
Thank you so much . It's great news .
It's gonna mean a lot for our soldiers .
Additionally , the quality of life
panel , which I was a part of released
a list of recommendations last Thursday
that will dramatically improve the
livelihoods of soldiers and their
families all over uh the world and
across the military . And I want to
personally thank General Bacon for
having me on this uh panel and for his
leadership . I'm excited for these
recommendations to serve as the
foundation of the fiscal year 25 NDA A .
We have the opportunity now to take
care of the service members who take
care of our nation and I know we're
going to do the right thing . The army
is also going through changes related
to its structure and I'm supportive of
the army's efforts to do that to meet
our new challenges . However , I
encourage the army to ensure that as it
changes , it continues to support the
communities that in turn have supported
the army for so many years . Secretary
War , as the army does restructure ,
it's cutting military police battalions
and engineer units . It's going to
affect Fort Leonard Wood . Fewer
positions in these specialties will
mean fewer soldiers over time attending
basic training at Fort Leonard Wood .
It's going to disproportionately impact
the rural community around the
installation compared to that of other
installations and I will submit to you .
It already is , is it feasible to plus
up the number of soldiers attending
basic training at Fort Leonard Wood to
ensure that the community is not too
adversely affected congressman . Uh
First of all , we , we look at our army
force structure and how it's arrayed
every year through the total army
analysis uh process that we use . So we
will continually be looking at that to
include at places like Fort Le uh Fort
Leonard Wood . Uh I do want to note and
um we , I , you know , we have
in the restructuring that we've done ,
we were looking at authorized spaces ,
basically spaces not faces . And at
Fort Leonard Wood and at many of our
installations around the country , the
actual number of soldiers right now is
below the number of authorizations . So
it is possible . And the reason I'm
hesitating a little is because I don't
have Fort Leonard Wood's kind of
footprint in my mind in terms of
numbers . But in many of our major
bases , by the end of the next five
years , the number of actual soldiers
at Fort Leonard Wood may be higher than
what you have now , in part , because
in so many places , due to the
recruiting challenges , we're actually
below the number of authorizations . Do
you have a percentage of that increase ?
I just again , don't have those numbers
off the top of my head , but we can get
them to you . Absolutely , because we
do have them . Can you talk about the
changes that the army is making to the
army's criminal investigation division ?
I know we've talked about this in my
office and the impacts it will have
across the army . And also at Fort
Linwood where C ID agents get their
training . Absolutely . And our C ID
agents get terrific training at Fort
Leonard Wood . Again , I was pleased to
be able to see a lot of what the
installation offers when I was there .
Um broadly speaking , what we're trying
to do with C ID and a lot of this came
out of the commission that looked at um ,
everything that happened at Fort Hood
in the wake of Vanessa Guillen's murder .
We are essentially transforming at
least 60% percent of our C ID agents to
civilians . So it won't be a fully
military force anymore . And I think
one thing that's going to do is improve
the level of professionalism , the
level of experience that our agents
have , um which is really important , I
think particularly given the importance
of their investigative role . So that's ,
that's broadly what we're doing with
the transformation . But happy to have
Director Ford come and talk with you in
more detail . If you'd like , I would
love to have a discussion with Director
Ford personally . Thank you so much and
again , thank you , Secretary and
General . Thank you for your service to
our nation . I invite you to Fort La
Wood . Anytime would love to accompany
you there . All right , thank you .
Gentleman yields back the chair . I
recognize General from New Mexico , Mr
Vsquez . Thank you so much , Mr
Chairman . Thank you Secretary Warmth
General George for taking the time to
speak with us today . I have the
privilege of representing New Mexico's
second district , home to White Sands
Missile Range , the birthplace of
America's missile and Space Program and
the Department of Defense's Premier
research and testing facility . As you
both know , white sands is one of the
department's most valuable assets
receiving , but it's not receiving the
prioritization and attention that it
deserves from the army . Rural
installations such as white sands face
unique challenges to provide sufficient
and adequate and modernized housing for
service members and their families .
During my visit to White Sands . This
year , I spoke with base leadership
about how they're currently at over 90%
capacity for their on base housing and
are struggling to meet housing demands .
Unfortunately , the army's own
calculations don't recognize that white
sands is reaching maximum capacity
because the formula only counts
uniformed personnel who are living on
base and does not count additional
civilian and contractor workers who
also live on base because the army
marks white sands at a significantly
lower capacity . The base faces greater
challenges getting the resources needed
to modernize , expand and improved its
housing conditions to meet actual
demand . Secretary warm . Would you say
that updating outdated housing for
service members is a top priority in
this budget request ? Yes , we are .
We've put a lot of money towards
barracks . We've also put a lot of
money towards new homes , for example ,
or renovating family homes . What could
the people of white sands expect from
this $2.1 billion I believe per year uh
to achieve safe quality housing uh over
over the next year . Uh if this budget
request is granted , well , the $2.1
billion is focused on barracks
exclusively for unaccompanied soldiers .
So it's not gonna get after some of the
housing issues . I think congressman ,
what I would suggest is that um we look
specifically at white sands and see if
in fact , we are for some reason , not
appropriately , you know , um thinking
about soldiers plus civilians and
contractors , I think , you know , we
can certainly look into that with you .
Thank you so much . I really appreciate
that secretary and that is a challenge
that we continue to face because we do
have a mix of both civilian contractor
and of course enlisted personnel that
rely on on base housing uh that
currently is not being met . Uh Many of
the buildings at white sands missile
range were also constructed in the
years following world war two ,
including much of the housing and
decades later on base housing is in
dire need of upgrades . Uh Last year ,
I was proud to help Secure Section 2833
in the fy 24 NDA A which terminated all
favors that allowed for an
unsatisfactory housing to ensure that
all army housing adhere to current
living standards , particularly
surrounding square footage per soldier .
Uh Secretary given this , how exactly
does the army intend to go about
improving housing ? Uh Given uh this
new directive congressman , we're
looking at a few things uh to include ,
looking at the design , for example of
our housing of our barracks in
particular , one thing we're doing is
uh trying to shrink the inventory of
the worst barracks , the Q three Q four ,
we're hiring civilians to be barracks ,
managers to go into our department of
public works to help us do oversight
better . And the chief and I and others
are looking at the standards for design
to look at , you know , what is the
bare minimum per square footage ? How
many soldiers per room ? Um You know ,
we , we wanna look at that and do that
in a way that's cost effective but give
soldiers good housing . Thank you ,
secretary . And do you believe that
currently uh the army or in your budget
request has the adequate personnel
resources , uh and planning ability
needed to execute these directives to
improve these housing conditions . And
if not , what , what else can we do to
make ? Make sure you have those
resources ? Thank you , Congressman .
Two things I'd say and again , I'd like
the chief to add one . We do need to
hire more bergs managers and there's
money in the budget to do that .
Although , you know , we , we continue
to be looking at what the requirement
is for that . Two , I do wanna say
given the inventory of barracks and
housing that the United States army has ,
it's enormous , it's bigger than any
service . And we don't have the money
in our budget to , you know , get that
inventory up to a high standard in a
short time frame . It's just gonna cost
in billions dollars . So while we put a
very strong investment towards barracks ,
it's going to take some years to really
get after that problem . Thank you ,
Secretary in chief . Yeah , the only
thing I would add , Congressman is uh
we are reviewing on the barracks and ,
and we can come back and , and we want
a little bit of flexibility and we've ,
we're talking to soldiers out there ,
I've lived in those barracks . Um So um
the second is we're also looking at how
we can spend our money , you know ,
better and some of the process , things
that we've just done with , including
the um the core , core of engineers to
kind of streamline what our process is .
So we're studying what they're doing
out there . Um One of the places that
we went and looked at was uh University
of Alabama , um and kind of comparing
the cost for what we're building and I
would love to have our team come over
and walk you through that . Thank you ,
General . Thank you , Secretary . Thank
you both for your service . Mr Chairman .
I go back and I thank you for talking
with the University of Alabama chair
and I recognize General from Texas , Mr
Fallon . Thank you , Mr Chairman
General . It's great to see you again
and thank you so much for coming and
visiting our office . I think it was
very productive and I have every
confidence that we'll have a great
working relationship . But if not
partnership , uh , moving forward , I
wanted to visit with you on the humvee
retrofit program . The , uh , you know ,
some people may not know that uh I DS
were posed a great threat to Humvees
and to mitigate that . We created
another issue which was its susceptible
to rollovers as you know .
Unfortunately , there's been 349
rollovers . Over 700 soldiers have been
injured and tragically in 130 have been
killed . Um , and so I was , when I
read the base budget request . I was a
bit , I have to admit I was a bit
befuddled because it was a request for
$45 million . And it was even more so
confusing to me because it was
published uh , after the assistant
secretary for acquisitions , told the
in , told inside defense . And I quote
here , the core issue with the program
speed and volume is Congress isn't
appropriating enough money . And I have
to take offense to that . I have a
sliver of anger bewilderment and , and
bafflement because for three straight
years since I've been in Congress in a
bipartisan fashion in a bicameral
manner , we have appropriated four
times as much as what the army has
asked for . So please help me , help
you . Uh You know , I think it's
feasible to do it within five years .
There's gonna be nd a language that
will be written in to , to do that
because we're talking about soldiers
live . So general and madam secretary ,
um help us , please do the right thing .
And , and can we count on you uh madam
Secretary and then General George
Congressman , uh certainly soldier
safety is critical to us and we wanna
work with you . Um You know , I think
one of the things we're doing frankly
and the chief may want to elaborate on
this is uh general Rainey at army
futures command is actually looking at ,
do we have the right number of vehicles
in our formations ? In some cases , we
may want to actually be reducing the
proportion if you will of Humvees that
we have in some of our formations . So
that's something we're gonna have to
factor in . As we look at the
investment in the anti lock brake
systems . Uh I would say it's a safety
issue . Yes , we're focused on it and
we appreciate all the assistance that
you've provided um to Red River Army
Depot is critically important to us .
And this kind of gets to the larger
discussion that we've been having today .
And I think that uh that workforce , I
think what we need to look at is and I
think we talked about this a little bit
is how we , you know , what is the next
projects ? What are the things that
we're gonna need to do just based on
the skilled workers that we have there ?
Um , and the capability . And that's
where I think even beyond this , that
we need to start looking um , longer
term to , to , to keep that hot and
also to retrofitting as opposed to
buying new ones , saves about $8
billion . And when you have the , you
know , the kind of budget crunches that
we're facing , that's a good thing .
But I also wanted to visit with you
both about is what I , I really feel is
an absolute accidental threat to our
national security , which is the
recruiting crisis . And I do think it's
a crisis every once in a while , we
might not hit a number . But when it's
year over year , it's getting to be ,
we have to ring the alarm bells . So I
think it's uh an all hands on deck .
The 1.1 billion in increased marketing
is a , is a good step . What we all
want is we don't want to just throw
money at an issue we want and we really
need measurable results . So I wanted
to wanna visit with you on a matter of
secretary is to talk about how we can
measure some of these new because I do
think we need to be innovative and ,
and creative , quite frankly and need
to be committed to addressing this .
And so what if you could share with us
kind of a , a comprehensive uh plan as
to how to address this , looking at it
in some new ways and how we're gonna
measure it . Certainly Congressman ,
first of all . Uh , well , I don't
wanna be overconfident because we have
six more months left in the fiscal year .
If we continue to perform the way we
have in the last few months , I think
there's an excellent chance that we
will make our recruiting goal this year
of 55,000 soldiers and 5000 in the
delayed entry program . So the things
that the army has been doing in the
last year and a half , I think are
starting to work . Um And one of those
has been the future soldier prep course ,
you know , which is done exceedingly .
Well , we have a soldier referral
program . The , the additional
marketing that you talked about , I
don't know if you saw our commercial
during the March Madness tournament .
Um All of that I think is starting to
bear fruit . But to your point about
Coach K Yes , exactly . Uh , and we've
got more ads , I think that will be
rolling out in August of this summer .
Um But to your point about metrics and
the broader transformation um that is
critical and the chief and I made a
series of decisions last fall to
transform our recruiting enterprise .
One of them was to give us an
analytical capability to actually
understand what doing that's working
and what's not working because frankly ,
before that , it was a little bit throw
spaghetti at the wall , like double up
on what's working ditch , what's not
working and we're not gonna succeed at
every innovative and new idea that we
have . And I think that we can do some
uh some help . We can provide you some
help as well . We , we're drafting
legislation right now to compel in
institutions of learning , high schools
and colleges if they receive federal
funds to give access to our recruiters
to mandate that . Thank you very much a
beck gentlemen , uh time expired chair .
And I recognize you from Nevada , Mr
Horsford . Thank you , Mr Chairman and
to the ranking member , uh the Army's
23 Arsenals Depots and ammunition
plants play a critical and crucial role
in supporting the war fighter through
sustaining readiness requirements
across the joint force in my district .
It includes the Hawthorne Army Depot
which apart from storing convention ,
no munitions has been tasked uh with
demilitarizing and uh disposing of
unserviceable , obsolete and surplus
munitions . On March 20th , the EPA
released a proposed rule to revise the
standards for the open burn , open , uh
detonation of waste explosive . This
rule affects 67 resource conservation
and Recovery Act OBM uh facilities
including Hawthorne Army Depot in my
district . Even though the installation
currently has permits until 2029 and
2023 . The proposed rule would require
the implementation of identified viable
alternatives in lieu of obmobom .
This means that no matter the cost obom
facilities must evaluate and re
evaluate whether safe alternative
technologies are available and
facilities must use those alternatives .
Epa is estimating that this rule could
cost the installations between 6
million to $28 million annually for
rural installations such as the ones in
my district . This amount of money is
just staggering . I don't have to tell
you that smaller installations which
often have little to no active duty uh
receive much less attention than their
larger counterparts . So I worry that
this rule will only exacerbate that
issue while I understand the need to
invest in alternative technologies and
address the environmental impacts these
practices . Cause I'm concerned that
this rule will have wide implications
for installations such as Hawthorne ,
Secretary uh Waru and General George .
Are you aware of this proposed rule and
the impacts that will have on army
depots across the United States ? Thank
you , Congressman . Yes , I am broadly
aware of that um EPA rule on open
burn um facilities and and
certainly , I think you are correct ,
it could have significant implications
for Hawthorne . So , um I think this is
something that we need to look into to
better understand precisely what those
impacts would be . I would like to have
our Army Material Command which
oversees our um arsenals and depots ,
look into that and be in touch with
your staff . I think we wanna
understand what those implications are ,
as you said , in your statement , you
know , in some cases , we've been able
to find alternative technologies to
allow us to do that kind of
demilitarization in a different way .
But I , I think this is something we
need to dig into a little more and we
would do that with you . I would like
to work with you on that to address
this issue that so that installations
such as Hawthorne are not adversely
impacted uh by this proposed rule . So
I'll follow up with you . Uh Also as
you know , uh Hawthorne which is housed
on over 100 and 40,000 acres and
provides an explosive storage capacity
of 7 million ,
685,000 square feet . Can you please
outline the steps that you're taking to
address the special requirements and
funding needs of the smaller rural
installations in order to ensure proper
maintenance and readiness at these
crucial sites . Certainly , in , in
broad terms , I can do that . Um All 23
of our arsenals ammo plants and depots
are critically important to our organic
industrial base . And through the
leadership of Army and Material Command ,
we have a 15 year facilities investment
plan , um and an organic industrial
based plan that looks at our
investments and we , we look at each of
them individually to try to determine
what their current and future
requirements are . And then we
basically bring that into our budgeting
process to try to make sure that we are
investing in those facilities in the
way that's needed . I'll be honest ,
given our top line , we , we don't
always have all the money we need to
get to everything right away , but we
do have a 15 year plan . Thank you .
And I again , I'd like to follow up on
a few items specific to Hawthorne . Um
Some of the issues that I've been able
to work with the chairman and the
ranking member on in the past . Uh I do
not want these installations to be
forgotten or ignored . We have critical
needs throughout uh but places like
Hawthorne and other rural installations
are vitally important as well and
should be given priority . So with that ,
I yield back , gentleman yields back
chair , not recognized as a gentleman
from Georgia , Mr mccormick . Thank you ,
Mr Chair , Secretary of Warmth . Uh , I
noticed , uh , that we have a
recruiting shortfall this year . How
many , how many thousands are way below
our , our , uh , what's our shortfall
for the army right now ? Well ,
congressman right now , we're , we're ,
again , I don't wanna be overconfident ,
but we are on track . I think to make
our recruiting goal this year , which
is 55,000 new contracts plus 5000
individuals in what we call our delayed
entry program . I'm familiar now ,
given the recruiting shortages we had
in the past , we're still undermanned
though . Correct . Well , we're able to
meet all of the requirements of that .
The combatant commanders had levied on
us . We would like to grow . Absolutely ,
General George and I wanna see our end
strength come up and our plan is to
have our end strength be at 470,000 by
2029 . You're at 452,000 . But is that
452,000 manned right now or do you have
a shortfall ? It is manned right now .
I mean , yes , our authorizations are
above that , but we are manned at 452 .
Got you . And , uh , I noticed a couple
of things . First of all , I , the
sergeant , the former sergeant major of
the army still owes me 100 push ups for
not making his , uh , goals last year .
When we made a bet on it . Uh , I
always say that it's because the army
doesn't have as good a commercial as
the Marine Corps , but that's just my
opinion . Uh , obviously the barracks
conditions has something to do with
morale and retention . Um , I was in
the Marine Corps barracks in camp , the
June recently . I saw some really bad
ones and some really , really good ones .
There's , there's a disparity as we
continue to build towards something
better . One thing I noticed in Georgia
though Fort Stewart is really bad right
now . Uh I , I'm sure you're aware
right now , but , uh one of the recent
analysis showed that there was a brown
faucet water moldy ceilings , raw
sewage in the bathroom floors . Uh This
is for the Third Infantry Division . Uh
Fort Stewart , what are we doing to
improve that ? And what can we expect
for a timeline , Congressman ? That's
what the $2.1 billion investment is all
about . You know , we are trying to
reduce the inventory , that's Q three Q
four as quickly as possible . So we're
going to be investing in , you know ,
construction of new barracks . We're
building , we're um investing in
sustainment at 100% to which we haven't
done in years and years . We're hiring
new barracks managers and what we have
a whole process where like , you know ,
um , the , the Fort Stewart garrison
commander and division commander can
weigh in and basically hold up their
hand and say , you know , we are in
dire need but we are investing a lot of
money to try to get after that exact
problem . Good . I'll look forward to
updates on that . Uh I know one of the
things we noticed with the Ford
Reconnaissance General . Uh we're using
drones now , autonomous drones for
forward looking uh in place of
reconnaissance . Uh I think it's great
because we used to always say about
force recon that you are swift , silent
and totally surrounded . This is uh a
better technology for outward looking
looking um technologies that we're
gonna use to give a battlefield update
real time . Um Is the army fully
committed to this ? And do we need to
do something in Congress to accelerate
that program to save lives and , and uh
form the battlefield better than the
fog of war ? Um I , I think we're , we
get that , that's where we have to go .
Um Congressman that we have to , we are
investing in that at every level . I
think that we're gonna have to have for
reconnaissance . Um And this , it's
also joint because we're looking at at ,
at the space assets that are out there
from the , from the space force . So I
think we were learning those lessons
and we're moving forward and trying to
do it quickly . So we dedicated to that
as a priority or do you think that's
lower in the party as far as the uh uh
obviously you guys need a lot .
Everybody needs a lot . Right now , we
have a worldwide uh challenge whether
it be in different , multiple arenas ,
funding allies that are fighting wars .
Uh I , is this a priority ? I , I think
it is a priority . It's , there's three
areas that we've asked for that . I
think we need to have more flexible ,
more flexibility . And that's with UAs
counter UAs and ew it's gonna change .
Um We're gonna , we're , we're buying
off a blue list , which is all us stuff
right now . I think that we can produce
those things . I think we um all of
those systems . I think we do need a
little bit of flexibility to move stuff
from R and D immediately into
procurement and we could certainly use
your help doing that . Great . And then
final question has to do with what's
going on over in Ukraine . Obviously ,
Ukraine's being out shelled about 10 to
1 , a large portion of their munitions
are going to come from us and our
sustained support . Obviously , a lot
of the munitions we send to Ukraine are
gonna be replaced here in America .
About 68% I believe is , is the recent
statistic I heard is our failure to get
this package done to help Ukraine and
what they're trying to do against uh an
age old adversarial opponent . Uh Do
you think that's hampered by our
hampering your efforts to , to do what
you need to do , be prepared for the
next war uh by us not passing what we
need to get done over in Ukraine . Um
Short answer to that is yes , we need a
supplemental to build our magazine
depth and replace equipment . General's
time expired chair and I recognize
General from North Carolina . Mr Davis .
Thank you so much , Mr Chair , madam
Secretary General , our service members
and especially army personnel are
forced to cope with substandard and
often toxic fill feeding systems . Um
Madam Secretary as part of the uh
2024 NDA A . Um There was a report
provision that would speak and address
to uh this situation in the planning .
Um Can you give any update in terms of
the status of this congressman ? I'm
sorry , did you say feeding ? I did .
Ok . Sure . Uh We are very focused on
trying to make sure that our soldiers
have access to quality food . Uh and we
have had some challenges in the last
year , but here's what we're doing
about it . Uh First of all , you know ,
we are investing in um things like
meals on the go that soldiers can , you
know , go and grab and take home to
their barracks later to prepare . We
are building food kiosks um that are
again , have , you know , great , a
great variety of food . I actually saw
one of our food kiosks at Fort Cavazos
recently . We're also bringing in food
trucks when soldiers are sometimes away
from their defects . Um So I think all
of that is gonna improve the quality
and sort of availability if you will of
so of food for our soldiers . But we're
also engaged in a broader effort really
to try to transform our defects and
have them be more like college campuses
in terms of the quality of and variety
that they offer and also the hours that
they're available . So we have a lot of
work that we're doing on our food
strategy . Can I jump in on that one ?
Uh Congressman ? Just because I've been
eating all of those ? I mean , I think
uh outside , everywhere we've changed ,
people want quick food , they want
healthy food , they want really
flexible hours . I mean , I think we're
seeing that and , and what we need to
do is do the same thing on our
installations and I think you're gonna
see some really um big changes here in
the next year and how we're approaching
exactly that . And the secretary
mentioned , um a couple of the things
that we're , that we're looking at
doing and get some of this is getting
some outside help and looking at how
industry um is doing it . But we're , I
think we're gonna make some , some
changes here real soon . Very positive .
And could you speak specifically in
terms of the field program out ? Yeah .
Well , I think every , every location
is gonna be a little bit different . Um
So I just , it depends on how spread
out everything is and what , what they
want , what their access is to off base .
Um And , and kind of like the , the
secretary said , it's more like campus
style dining . It's gonna be a little
bit different . We've had a um kiosk ,
for example , that they opened up and
we partnered with Decca , which was the
commissary to , to put the food in
there . And they're very , very pop
popular to the point where they were um
had 300 people showing up a day . Um
And a couple of days later , there was
1800 people . And so , um we , I , we
think we got the right strategy . We're
just gonna have to implement it on at
every different location . I'm super
proud of Fort Liberty and especially
headquartered there , Special
Operations Command . Um General George ,
um how is the spatial uh the the
special operations command making up um
for what we would lack in sheer volume
of personnel in terms of um equipment
and , and greater efficiency and
provision uh uh precision itself .
Yeah , I mean , I would just like to
overall talk about Fort Liberty in
general . We got used to so there , but
we've also got 18th Airborne Corps .
We've got the 82nd Airborne Division .
I mean , there's a lot that's there at
Liberty . We're getting ready to invest
with some additional um multi domain
task force is gonna go there . So
obviously very , very important um to
us , every and there's a lot of
innovation . I mean , I could , I could
probably go on for a good long time
about what we're doing down at , um ,
Liberty right now , but they're really
helping us to innovate , um , uses so
specifically with like high altitude
balloons or small , um , UAs . Um , so
it's really across all the war fighting
functions . I mean , we're , we're one
big army and , and that we're a big
piece of that and army makes up a big
part of SOCOM in total . Well , thank
you so much , Miss Jerry Gilbert . I
thank the gentleman here . I recognize
the gentleman from Florida . Mr Gates ,
Secretary of War , there's train and
equip money requested in this budget .
Right . Certainly congressman and , and
the train and equip mission in is owned
by the army , right . Uh , yes , we
certainly provide soldiers for that .
Yes . General . Do you know what is
going on in right now ? I know there's
some challenges over there in right now
and I don't think that , that we are
actually in , in charge of that mission
that's on the ground . Yeah , we just
heard the secretary say you've got
soldiers there . So I'm gonna , we're
gonna , we're gonna dive into that to
some extent . Do you know what the
status is of diplomatic overflights to
our installations in ? Yeah , I'm
vaguely tracking that . That's a
challenge . I mean , it's not a cha ,
it's binary . Are we allowed right now
to do diplomatic overflights in ? Yes .
Or No , I don't know if , I don't know
exactly . I'm not tracking that we're
allowed to do those diplomatic
overflights . I don't , but I'm sure
the Africom commander does . Yeah . But
you guys just said it's in the budget
you're asking for , to do these train
and equip missions . One of them is in .
In . Right now , the government has
stopped us from doing diplomatic
overflight missions . So , we have army
soldiers right now in who aren't
getting their troop rotations , who
aren't getting their medicine , who
aren't getting their supplies , who
aren't getting their mail . And the two
senior people in the United States army
are sitting before me and it's like ,
hear no evil . See , no evil speak no
evil . Are you going to do anything for
the soldiers that are in right now ?
Who can't get medicine ? Yes or no ?
Congressman ? Certainly we can talk to
General Langley and make sure that I've
talked to General Langley . He comes in
here and never has really good answers .
I mean , I asked him for information
about how many of the coup leaders we
had trained , including in and Ghana
and Mali and the Ivory Coast and he
didn't even produce his report on time .
So pardon me ? For a lack of confidence
in General Langley , what I'm telling
the two of you is that you have a
responsibility for these soldiers in
and in general , you would agree with
me with the premise that we should
never sacrifice the well being of our
service members to avoid political
embarrassment . Right ? And I will tell
you I'm not tracking that anybody's
that somebody in is not getting their
medicine or their mail , but I will
follow . You don't even know the status
for this over flights . How about the
great power competition ? You would
agree on train and equip missions . We
would never want Russian soldiers at
the US installation where we're doing
train and equip , right ? You . That's
not even a tough question . You would
agree . And so if there were Russian
soldiers behind the wire at Airbase 101 ,
and where are the , where we have
soldiers doing the train and equip
mission that would concern you ,
wouldn't it ? Right . Well , I'm here
to tell you we've received reports that
they run out of medicine in May that
they cannot get their troop rotations .
And you know why ? You don't know that ?
Because it's a cover up because the US
Embassy in is covering it up because of
Secretary Lincoln's embarrassment
because Lincoln went there in March of
2023 and said this was the centerpiece
of our Africa strategy . This was the
model of resilience and then lo and
behold the very coup leader we trained
takes over the country and then we
struggle with whether or not to call it
a coup . We've now called it a coup
since we've called it a coup . Now they
won't let us get folks in and out . And
so I'm looking at what could erupt is
another Benghazi where there is no
mission to do . There is no train and
equip right now with the coup leaders .
So we got a bunch of people sitting
around without their supplies , without
their medicine . And the whole reason
intelligence isn't getting to us is
because the embassy is blocking it
because Lincoln is humiliated that this
failed . And I've used my five minutes
on the , everything in the army right
now because I have constituents who are
there in and they're wondering how to
get water . Did you know they , they
can't even get clean water . Did you
know that the partner nations that we
have at that base with our soldiers ,
the partner nations , the Italians and
the Germans , they've stopped
cooperating with us . They won't even
help us get provisions to our troops
because because of the status of forces
agreement that we have with the
government being deemed invalid . I am
just a country lawyer from North
Florida . But this strikes me as
something . The two of you should know
about it . Uh , you , you , I get the
blank stares but secretary warm . Can I
take as your commitment that you are
going to leave here and you're going to
see to the well being of these folks in
and that , and that , and that they can
get the rotations and the medicine they
need certainly , I will make sure
they're getting the medicine and the
water that they need . Yes ,
congressman , Great Mr Chairman , I
have a number of unanimous consent
requests . First an art article from
Politico . It's like a bad movie . Us
officials who helped train Nigeria
troops reel from coup . We had
objections . So ordered Russian troops
arrive in as military agreement begins
and from the BBC without objection . So
ordered uranium uh uh termination of us
military ties followed accusation of
Irani deal . March 17th 2024 from the
Wall Street Journal without objection
to order . General Times expired . You
not recognized general from California ,
Mr Carbajal . Thank you , Mr Chair and
uh thank you both Secretary Warmoth and
General uh George for being here today .
Um hearing some experts on conspiracy
theories and other otherwise . Uh but
having served in the military , I have
a little bit more confidence as a
service member , veteran in what you do ,
things aren't always perfect . But um I
think you do a great job in trying to
lead our men and women uh in the
service , General George , as you know ,
the army is undergoing substantial
modernization efforts . Can you speak
to where you see space based assets
fitting into the army's modernization
efforts ? And do you foresee challenges
with integrating space based assets
with legacy systems ? Um
Congressman , the uh it space we are
growing this capability . Um That's uh
for us , we've stood up already three
multi domain task force , a big
component of that . Um Is what we have
with uh with our space based assets
that are inside of that , we're gonna
grow two additional um the army is the
biggest user of , of space and um on
the ground . So I , I don't see any uh
challenges right now . We are updating
our , our network which will allow us
to share all this . We are learning a
lot from um from commercial industry um
as well . So I think we're on a good
path as it relates to space and
building that capability and working
with the space force . Thank you ,
Secretary War . The army is
simultaneously undergoing both a
significant force structure and
recruitment enterprise transformation .
Do you see these two reforms
complementing each other ? How will the
new recruiting enterprise help fulfill
new four strength goal of 470,000
soldiers by fiscal year 2029 .
Thank you Congressman and thanks for
your comments of opening comments of
support , appreciated . Um I am
confident that our recruiting
transformation is gonna help us . We're
already doing better and I think we'll
just keep doing better over time . Uh
We have just started , we just selected
our first cohort of warrant officers
who are gonna be focused on recruiting .
They're gonna go into the field this
summer . We're in the process of
developing the pipeline for how we're
gonna start taking enlisted soldiers
and making them specialized recruiters .
I think that'll be really important .
We are looking at things like , um what
is the recruiting station of the future ?
Look like we have a new Innovation cell
that will be standing up that's gonna
help us . Um , you know , understand to
a conversation I had with another
member earlier , what's working and
what's not working . And then of course ,
we're looking at as we build um , new
units like our multi domain task force
or as we grow additional air defenders
or grow soldiers with space
capabilities . You know , we're working
with our recruiters and our G one to
make sure that we are um filling those
billets and able to recruit that kind
of great talent into the army . Thank
you . Uh We have heard a lot about
hypersonic weapon systems on this
committee , General George . How do you
see hypersonic weapons changing the
landscape of warfare we have seen over
the last few decades . And how is the
army adapting to this new technology ?
Um Congressman , I think it's uh
hypersonics is an important capability .
It's uh it's gonna be another arrow in
our quiver . It's not one answer we
have . There's other aspects of uh of
long range fires that we will use . But
I again , I think it's an important
capability provides uh extra range and
could go after , you know , critical
targets , but we're gonna need the
whole portfolio to be successful .
Thank you . Um It seems that each year
cases of military sexual assault
continue to happen . Despite military
leadership saying that they will
address this issue . I know the cases
of sexual assault in the army have
dropped compared to other service
branches . But what , what is the
solution to getting our hands around
this ? This is an issue that's been
around forever . Military brass always
says we're dealing with it . We're
doing our best . What is the solution ?
Congressman ? First of all , I would
say , you know , this is a national ,
unfortunately problem , uh sexual
harassment and sexual assault , not an
exclusively military one , but we are
really focused on it . And I will tell
you one of the things I think that's
gonna help us significantly get our ,
our arms around it and start doing more
to prevent those kinds of incidences is
by um adding some new training for our
soldiers at basic training . A lot of
our soldiers come in today and they
just don't understand kind of the basic
right and wrong . What consent means ,
what boundaries are , you know , we
need to teach our soldiers to respect
each other and to say no and starting
this fall , we're gonna be adding some
training into basic training so that
every new soldier that comes into the
army learns about that . And then we've
also on the response side , our special
trial counsel's office has reached full
operational capability and they are
starting to prosecute those kinds of
cases that that organization reports
directly to me . And I think that will
um help restore times expired . You're
not recognized Gent lady from
California MS Jacobs . Thank you , Mr
Chairman um uh Secretary of warm with
General George . I wanted to follow up
uh actually on some of uh where my
colleagues , Mr Walton and Mr Jackson
left off regarding some of the proposed
cuts to the soft community . Um I
specifically want to know about the
impacts to civil affairs teams who
represent the department's capability
to do stabilization operations .
Understand the information space and
civilian environment and engage in
strategic competition . This capability
is particularly important to the dod s
implementation of the Global Fragility
Act uh which has civil affairs teams
deployed to coastal West African States .
So given all this , can you explain the
rationale for cuts to civil affairs ?
Certainly congresswoman , first of all ,
I'm a huge believer in civil affairs .
You know , um one I want to be clear
that , you know , General George and I
fully support and endorse the value of
special operators and what they bring
to the table . Uh Civil Affairs is just
one example of that . Basically what we ,
you know , working with socom Solek ,
we looked at the overall capacity of
our special operations community which
grew substantially during the last 20
years . And we basically ran a series
of analysis that looked at a conflict
with Russia , a conflict with China and
also looked at what did we need to be
able to compete , compete during
peacetime and what we found was we had
some excess capacity essentially . So
we have made some trims , as I said to
another gentleman earlier , 65% of the
3000 comes out of enablers . So it's a
small number of reductions in the Civil
affairs authorization . But we still
need that overall capability . It's
important . Can I add 11 thing , a lot
of our capability on , on civil affairs
when I've deployed , Iraq Afghanistan
came out of the guard and the , and the
army reserve . And so , you know , none
of those cuts came out there as well .
So , um I think we need to remind
everybody if we're going to go do
something that's , you know , very
consequential for our nation , it's
gonna be a total army that's gonna go
do it and we do have those capabilities .
So when we're looking at all of these
things , we try to look at that's why
we call it total army analysis . We're
trying to look at the depth of our
formation . I understand and , and I
think when it's , you know , a big
conflict that will be the case . But
one of the things I'm concerned about
is that Africom is already in under
resourced command . Um So I was
wondering in your assessments of these
cuts . Um Did , did you , do you have
any analysis on how this would impact
civil affairs positions in Africom ? A
or , and in particular , uh I've heard
concerns that potentially cote d'ivoire
might not be able to have a civil
affairs uh presence after these cuts .
And you know , especially as the coast
of West African States are so important
for the Global Fragility Act . You know ,
how will you mitigate these impacts ,
especially in those areas ?
Congresswoman , I think the way I would
say that is um we worked with socom and
Solek to look at the overall capacity ,
you know , with , with what is still
there after the cuts . Um You know , it
will be up to say again , the Africom
commander to decide where to allocate
those . So I think if there's a
pressing need in cote d'ivoire ,
there's still going to be a capability
to be able to be provided there . You
know , tho those kinds of decisions
about where to send our civil affairs
folks generally comes from the
combatant commander . I was , that's a ,
it's kind of a gift map request . So if
Africom wants to do that and working
with the joint staff , we do support um
with guard and reserve and active duty .
I mean , we look at a total army
solution if , if something is important
and we're obviously as a title 10
supporter , we're in that , we're
directed to do that mission . We'll do
it . Great . Thank you . I um I , I
appreciate that . Um I'd like to turn
to um the implementation of the
civilian harm mitigation and response
plan . Um As part of this , the
department established the center of
excellence and committed to achieve
full operational capacity by fy 2025 .
Um Can you discuss the progress in
achieving this capacity and how the
department is ensuring staffing
reflects a range of service branches ?
Certainly , um we have , we have um
established the center of excellence as
I'm sure , you know , Mike mcnerney is
the director of that center . He has a
military deputy director and I believe
a civilian deputy as well . Um The the
different services have contributed um
to staffing that center . And as far as
I know everything is , is on track and
that they are already working with the
combatant commanders to provide advice
and counsel where needed . Great . Well ,
we will follow up with you on
implementation of the GIR as it
continues um because it's a priority uh
for all of us , we passed a lot of uh
the enabling language in in last year's
ND A . So , um thank you so much , Mr
Chairman . I go back . I think the
gentle lady , uh I wanted to ask
Secretary War over the last three years ,
the army's requested about half of the
funding required to , to sustain army
modernization goals . I'm hoping that
that's not a resetting of the baseline
and that's just been dealing with
funding constraints uh to be parochial
uh shortfalls in the Abraham striker
and Palad and are particularly acute
this year . Can you tell me where
you're going with this ? How do you
intend to close that gap or have you
reset your baseline for spending
congressman ? I would say the the um
investment levels you pointed to are
good examples of where the chief and I
have had to make hard choices about how
do we allocate the incremental dollar
to enduring systems like Abrams or
striker or Paladin versus Flora or next
gen squad weapon or precision strike
missile ? I will say if the
supplemental passes , for example ,
that'll help us be able to buy more
Paladins just as one example . So it's
important there and striker . Um but
yeah , what you're seeing there is the
tension between enduring systems and
future systems . Great . Thank y'all .
Y'all both been very helpful . We
appreciate you being here , appreciate
your service to our nation and with
that , we are adjourned .