Hey , this is Chap and Tony Rep here .
I just want to remind you that this
podcast does not imply any endorsement
of any commercial organization ,
product or belief system . Well ,
everybody , welcome back again to the
balance of podcast . This is Chaplain
Tony Rep out of Bidle International
Guard base in the 111 tackling ,
delivering some good content to you
that's faced there , surrounded around
those four domains of comprehensive air
and fitness , our mental , social ,
spiritual , physical health . Um I'm
excited about the , uh , the gentleman
I have sitting across from me today . I
know you can't see him but you're gonna
hear his voice . You'll see a picture
of him there . Um If you're looking at
this on youtube , um , the gentleman
from the 1 93rd master Sergeant Sean
Jacobs . And , um , we're gonna get a
little opportunity to know him a little
better today and , and just as a uh a
segue into this , we're gonna be
talking about mental health resiliency
and what Sean says , uh leadership with
the big L so more , more , more to come
on that . So again , I hope you really
enjoy this , this podcast . You'll take
something from this but master sergeant
um Sean Jacobs is with us and , and
Sean . So , hey man , thanks so much
for being here today for driving out
here from , from Harrisburg State
College all the way out to Philadelphia .
So thank you for being here . Hey , I
could not be happier to be here today .
I literally love uh this topic and I
love the idea uh that I can share it
with you today . Uh It's motivating ,
get me up at three o'clock this morning
to get over here so I can uh talk to
you . Wonderful people . Nice man .
That's great . So I guess just for so
the audience knows , um obviously they
know you're a master sergeant in the
Air Force . That's about all they know
gi give us a little bit of background .
Um How long you've been in ? Um maybe
your , your career navigation . You ,
you have a family , just some things
that to get to know you a little better .
Absolutely . So , uh my background , I
am a Pennsylvanian uh by uh
naturalization . I grew up here just
outside of Carlisle , Pennsylvania , uh
Cumberland County . Um I left for the
Air Force a little bit later than , and
most people do uh active duty in about
2008 . I was 22 years old when I joined .
I just turned 22 and I spent six years
active duty . Uh my first duty station
um after intelligence school , as was
my A FSC is I wanna know uh in
Operations Intel , also known as All
Source Intel these days uh was
Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska .
And that was four years of an adventure .
It was an amazing time . One of the
best times of my life uh decided to
have the inspiration to drive the whole
way up there and drive the whole way
back . So we took , we took the camp
about a 7000 mile journey . Uh , myself
and my ex-wife , um , from 2009 to
about 2 2013 , I uh was stationed up
there and I , I loved it . I worked for
the 6/11 A OC , uh watching the Russian
Bear for a living . Uh , and then IP CS
to Tal Air Force Base , uh Florida
around 2013 and 2014 . And , uh right
before I got hit by a hurricane . So I
wasn't there for that and it was around
that time . Uh , my life started to
change and I went from what I was very
comfortable with , with in , in my air
force career as a senior . And , um ,
at this point , uh , myself , my wife ,
we went down there and , um , kind of
started to grow apart and since then ,
which we'll get into later , that was a
rough patch of my life . And , uh ,
that I'm here to talk about today . But
since then I've moved back to
Pennsylvania around 2015 . I joined the ,
the wonderful members of the
Pennsylvania Air National Guard in the
1 93rd Special Operation Wing and uh
specifically the 1 93rd Air Operations
Group in uh State College right next to
Penn State . Uh , and we're in a OC
integration unit and I've spent the
last almost eight years there . Uh I
was a DS G for a little while and went
to M um Shippensburg University . But
then I um after a deployment out to LU ,
I decided to take a full time job up
there as the NC IC of intel training .
And I've been there since about 2017 ,
full time . And uh I have , uh I've
been remarried . I have two wonderful
Children . Uh 11 year old daughter
named Emma and a three year old son
named Kieran . Uh My wife's name is
Ashley . We actually dated in high
school and got back together when I
came back to Pennsylvania and I just
love it up there . I love uh
interacting in the state of
Pennsylvania . And to be honest , I've
done a lot more traveling as a guards
member than I ever did as member . Yes ,
we have just this year . I've been 3.5
months in uh Europe , uh supporting our
state partnership as well as our uh AFC
over there dealing with the command and
control of uh supporting our NATO
partners . Um when it comes to uh
what's going on in Ukraine and other
interests that we have in Eastern
Europe . Uh and it has been absolute
blessing . And at the same time , it's
also been the biggest opportunity of my
life is to serve others . And uh just
finding new ways to do that is what
excites me . That's awesome . And yeah ,
and what's a unique experience that you
bring is , you know , you were active
duty , came over the guard . Um , the
guard to me is , is the , the , the ,
this hidden gem that people don't
realize . It's , it is the best of the
best to be . Just my opinion . I've
been in the guard my whole life army
and air in Pennsylvania . But the
opportunities are , are unbelievable .
They're numerous . And um I got to
travel the world too . I've been in
eight different countries . So it's
kind of cool . There's some active duty
folks don't get a chance to do that .
So , um Sean , thanks for sharing a
little bit just about your background .
Again . It's um you're a senior NCO
here uh serving your , your country ,
the commonwealth of Pennsylvania . Um
And so , you know , you were starting
to share with me and I'm , I'm glad I
stopped you initially because I don't
know your story and this is what's
awesome about being able to connect
with people and connect with Airman is
I know you have a powerful story . Um
And you know , we want you to talk a
little bit about that today . So , you
know , mental health , there's still a
stigma . Let's be , let's just be real .
There's still a stigma I deal with it
every day working with um top secret
clearance folks who are worried about ,
am I gonna lose my , you know , am I
gonna lose my clearance ? Can I
continue to serve ? And we have to
continue to work through and past this ?
And it takes guys like yourself um to
have the experience with some of these
challenges and as a senior leader to to
get in front of airman . So talk a
little bit about mental health , what
it means to you and , and sort of your ,
your own journey with mental health .
So I'd like to start to caveat uh
mental health . Absolutely not a
subject matter expert in any of the
fields . Uh Whether it comes to how we
do things uh in the Dod or the Air
Force , what I am an expert is in life
experience and my own experience , in
my opinion , because working in the
process only and providing that
feedback , improves the process and the
processes we have are better than they
were 20 years ago . They're better than
they were 10 years ago . They're better
than they were five years ago when I or
excuse me , 10 years ago when I was
involved in this patch of my life . Uh
So a lot of evolution has happened but
in , in 2015 , when I excuse me ,
2014 , really ? Um when IP CS at Tindal
Air Force Base , I was um my uh ex-wife
and I uh moved to Tal um very much a
different mental style . The , the base
was converting from an A TC base to an
AC C base . And it goes from , you know ,
being in a learning and training
environment to being , we have to
accelerate and change way before that
became the , the norm . Um because they
had to stand up and bring over F-22s .
Uh So I was part of the 3 25th OS S and
I hit the ground running when it came
to tactical . I for six years of my
career , excuse me , five years of my
career as an intel troop was at the
operational strategic level . I had
never been in the fire hose . That was
a tactical level of supporting a
platform . So I had to go to F-22 uh
intelligence training . If two ,
there's also co located at Tyndall back
then these days , I believe it's at
Egland since the hurricane , um , or
Langley . I can't remember which at
this point . Um , but any intel troop
that's been through that school , it ,
it is a fire hose . You actually go to
the same classes as the F-22 pilots .
You get right into the same systems ,
you get , uh , you get a dose of what
that's like to be a pilot because you
have to understand what they're going
through what they hear , what's going
on , the beeps and squeaks in the
cockpit . So that's , that's one
culture shock . Second culture shock is
that my wife um the school that she was
going to uh in Alaska , Anchorage , she
was going for biology . They didn't
offer that locally in uh Panama City ,
Florida . So uh Pensacola was the
closest location for Florida State or a
satellite version of that that offered
that . So we ended up setting up a ,
a separate place to live so she could
go to school and pursue her . What she
was interested in . That is what I was
all about was making sure that she was
happy and that she could pursue her
goals and no , no kids at this time .
No , no , no Children . Absolutely .
That is a very important detail . So
stretching thin . I'm a senior airman
at the time , senior airman in 2014 .
This was during the belt tightening the
force restructuring of the Air Force
and active duty component . They were
paying people to get out . Uh Captains
were getting shown the door , uh
getting paid a severance . There was um
for my career field at that time too .
I thought I was pretty safe because I
was looking at a uh , you know ,
reenlistment bonus . That was pretty ,
pretty high those days . It was in the
multiplier . I think it was like six
points . It was something like in the
neighborhood . If I reenlisted about 80
grand , I think it was . So I didn't
think I was gonna have too much problem
for a while , but I was stretching
myself then , you know , I had a big P
CS and I had some money in the bank ,
but I'm still a senior airman on a
single family income trying to pay for
my wife's college , making good use of
things like the Hap Arnold Grant and
other things afforded to us as military
members , but still burning the candle
at two ends when it comes financially .
Um , so that's , that's what the third
strike against me . And then the fourth
strike was the culture of within the
unit . The unit wasn't bad . It was the
fact that there was a lot expected of
me that I was not familiar with and
trying to cope with a lot of different
things while trying to thrive in a new
environment . It was a good , perfect
storm of what I could probably equate
to being the norm of anybody PC sing uh
to a new base when you're still fresh ,
you're in your first enlistment . So
that is kind of the setting the stage
for what happened very rapidly . After
about four months of being at Tindal
Air Force Base , my marriage starts to
break down the taxing this of going
back and forth . It's about a two hour
drive back and forth . So two hours
there , two hours back to Pensacola to
see my wife during the week while I'm
already working 1314 hours and do not
feel the motivation to try to get out
there and then when I am out there ,
it's only a few hours of really good
quality time . So things start to break
down . And unfortunately my wife and I ,
um , um , pretty one sided , we decided
that divorce was going to be the option
and that she also had found somebody
else . And , uh , it was pretty ,
pretty quick all at once . A lot of
things . Um , were you doing shift work
at this time too ? No , we weren't .
Fortunately I was not a shift worker .
We weren't operational . Like I said ,
we were still standing up these and I
was in a training status too . I mean ,
I had my five level and I was a fully
fledged senior . I'm an intel analyst
and I was , but I was producing at
least four or five products a week for
what we call the , we used to call the
Wing King Briefing . I don't know if
this base still does that too where you
refer to that old school term if , if
uh bring it back um the Wing King
Briefing and then you'd also have a
TSSC I briefing once a month and you'd
also have a special access program
stuff because we were in the fifth gen
community . And I even um I know a lot
of us like to have that daily news in
our bathrooms too and a lot of our
operational facilities . And as a
senior airman , it was my job every day
to come in at 5 a.m. and make a new
product . So that , so the um pilots
could , could read what's going on in
the day . It was considered also part
of that duty . So there were a lot of
do outs but no shift work . But it felt
like I was just curious because that ,
that would add even another potential
element just to , you know , the
overall stress and complexities but ,
but carry on . Sorry about that . I was
just curious at the , so all of those
things that came together to make a
perfect storm . Um My ex wife ex
expressed her discontent in her
interest in , in parting ways and I
didn't take it very well . Um I didn't
lash out at her , but in the grand
scheme of things , it felt very one
sided at the time . Um And I went
into a deep depression that I do know
was major depression after being
clinically diagnosed after the fact ,
which was temporary . Luckily , um in a
span of a couple of weeks went by . You
have to forgive me because this was 10
years ago . I don't know how much time
went by , but we weren't divorced yet .
Um And we were living in two different
places and we were still coming to
terms with what we were gonna do . Um
And I was starting to break down , I
was starting to feel what I would
equate to like a robot . I did not find
joy in almost anything . It wasn't so
much that I was sad all the time . It
wasn't so much that I was focusing on
the negative is that I completely
withdrew from life and I was still
doing everything that I operationally
was required to me as an airman and at
my duty station and I was dealing with
those stressors and I was still
working the way I should and it wasn't
necessarily impacting my work , but
cracks in the mold were happening .
Did you recognize this in yourself or
did others around you recognize it or
is this , is it you're able now to
armchair quarter back and look , look
back at this at the time , I'd say a
little bit of both . Um the one , the
one instance which um kind of
stands out in my mind before the actual ,
let's say turning point of all this in
the actual climax to the story , not
climax , excuse me . Um Yeah , we'll go
with climax . Climax works . Um Was I
was giving a briefing just to intel
members , my whole squadron um kind of
like dry running um uh product that we
were gonna give to the wing commander
and a lieutenant in the front row was
uh prior enlisted lieutenant . So he
was a little bit older than just the
standard butter bar . And um he started
asking some questions and in , in my
memory , I still think he was wrong .
Um But I lashed out a lot more than I
should have in that instance , I
reacted in a way that was disrespectful .
Um , and not , and , and I mean , my
squadron commander right there in front
of me , everybody in my chain of
command is in front of me so much so
that they had to kind of quell the
situation . Um , not so much that there
was like a come to blows or any sort of
back and forth exchange . It was in ,
it was uncalled for reaction and
unusual , that's not who you were .
It's not what you've done up to this
point . Right . Well , as far as they
knew , I mean , I've only been around
for a little while too , so I've only
been put under , I was still in , let's
say pre IQT or initial qualification
training for the F-22 unit and only
been there a couple of months , I was
doing the normal things that an OS S
intel allo analysts had to do , but I
also wasn't in with the F-22 squadrons
and doing the work that goes along with
supporting the platform . So I was kind
of in that , that middle area . So I
can't remember exactly what happened ,
but some time went by and I did start
school , um which was co located in the
same unit for the F-22 intel unit and I
made it through almost , I'd say 90% of
the course . Um and the course only
gets more and more stressful and it is
literally absorbing fire hose
briefings all the time going and
understanding big technical data and
trying to absorb all that and then
regurgitate it all within a timely
manner that is useful and it is
learning things that I never thought
I'd ever know . And it's exciting stuff ,
but all at the same time I'm going home
and I'm sitting down on my couch and
the only thing keeping me from getting
back up off that couch from going to
work is to walk , my dog is to grab
groceries , finding no pleasure in
anything that I was doing . Um , losing
weight too . Um I didn't realize this
till much later . Uh I had lost about
£20 over the span of probably three or
four months . Um I didn't recognize it .
Um But the , where the story takes a
turn was , it was probably maybe a week
or two out from when , if two or uh
intel , um training was gonna be
concluded for initial qualification .
And this is where you get into like the
harder parts of it where you're gonna
actually be tested and certified and
give a bunch of briefs all at once .
You have a couple of hours to put all
the data together and have access to
systems and then present that to the
subject matter , exports or a patch .
And that morning I came in to work on
something , I don't know what it was .
Um And my supervisor had come by a tech
sergeant . Uh I'm gonna just keep it to
last names . Woodell . Uh T er ,
Woodell came by and he recognized
and he knew what was going on with me .
It's not that they didn't know that I
was having family issues and that I was
working through them , but I don't know
what he saw , but he had the mental
cognition to recognize in the
intestinal fortitude , to ask the hard
question and the question verbatim to
me to this day , I remember it's like 6
a.m. and nobody else is in the offices .
Have you been thinking about hurting
yourself ? And I got to a
place where I couldn't speak . I
couldn't say no , I couldn't say yes .
I got choked up . I got teary and I
just stared at him and it
took him about five seconds to say ,
all right , put everything down . We're
going for a walk . And I don't know how
the sequence of events went there . It
went , I know tech Sergeant Waddell
myself , my superintendent , a master
sergeant . Uh that was literally a
stone's throw away . Drove me to mental
health and I talked to mental health
and basically
stayed with me , escorted me , talked
to me , made it not feel like something
was wrong , tried to keep things
normal , at least to a certain expect ,
not trying to focus on what we're doing ,
but to get me to where the next step .
And then I got um basically um assessed
by mental health . And uh through ,
through two different doctors and I
started um kind of some mediated care
through them . Um But after a couple
of weeks , I had a relapse and to a
point where they had to take me to
mental health again and they decided to
outpatient , commit me uh to a civilian
facility that was outside . So by
outpatient , just so everybody knows
what my definition of outpatient was .
They felt safe enough that I was
literally two blocks away because I
lived not too far away from the
facility that I was allowed to leave .
They gave me medication , they saw me ,
they assessed me and from that point on ,
they're like , you're coming here every
day for six hours . I was out last six
hours ago , basically half of my day .
So until further notice , um I don't
remember if it was on the weekends or
not , but I'm pretty sure . They
assessed me , they gave me medication .
Um , and they , they made the
determination after me being there for
about five or six hours that they did
not feel that I needed to be um
involuntarily committed and I did not
necessarily want to stay there . I
absolutely wanted help and had
completely accepted it by then that
this was my life , this is what was
happening . And I did not feel a stigma .
I was scared for my career . I got ,
especially as an intel person thinking
that I'm gonna lose my my clearance and
I'm not gonna be able to work . Um ,
but I did everything I was told and I
put it in , uh kind of the , the ,
let's say a , a cliche of putting my
life into a higher power . I'm not a
religious person by nature , but I do
have the virtues and believe in a
higher power . Uh Whether it be by
morale . Um I'm sorry , morals or
whether it is somebody else that is
looking out for your own good . I
believe that is a spiritual way of
doing things . Um So I kind of put
faith in the system and my NC Os that
were around me and my NC Os to their
credit . I remember specifically would
come visit me every day at home because
that's awesome . I was gonna ask you
about that . Yeah . So , so you , you
saw good leadership then it sounds like
from right from the beginning they took
care of you , there was never a um a
situation where you felt like they just
cast you aside , got you where you
needed to go and kind of left you left
you to hang out the dry there and it
wasn't even just good leadership at one
level . It was multiple levels . Um The
OS s commander and by way , the I I
only know this because I had out briefs
with them before enabled my SI O or
senior intelligence officer uh who was
a major . Um the
leeway and the , the because mental
health actually recommended to my
leadership to pull my clearance
temporarily to , to do something like
that , which is not , I I would never
see that as a bad thing that is trying
to protect national security , an
instable element in a system that needs
protected would never ever look at that
as a bad thing . But my chain of
command said no really . He is usable .
He is not far gone . We
trust that he can still do certain
things . And they would have me come in
for about four hours a day in the
beginning of the day to do . They
removed me from that intel training
environment because it was a stressful
part of that course . Um And , and gave
me things to do and didn't limit my
access , didn't put a mark on my record
because they didn't want to mark on my
record . They wanted to see how this
played out . I to this day . Have no
idea why . So they , they , they didn't
consult you about this . They just made
this decision with , without really
gaining any of your feedback at all . I
have no recollection of being discussed
with anybody because I assumed that was
what was gonna happen that I was going
to be temporarily put into some sort of
holding pattern where I wasn't allowed
to do my job because of the access that
I would be afforded um based on need to
know and , and necessity and none of
that happened right away . The first
thing that that part of my chain of
command and by the way , those are
words coming from the NC OS that were
told to them by the officers . It
wasn't like it wasn't like that . They
came to me and discussed that with me
that I can recall , but I know it was
their top cover from the officers
appointed above me that ensured that no
stigma was put on me from the beginning .
That's amazing , man . Sounds like
there's a lot of collaboration , trust
amongst leadership , which is
phenomenal . And they obviously saw
something in you that still um gave
them confidence that even though you
were going through this difficult time
that you can were still usable if you
will right in the in the moment that
you were in . So to me , this is a huge ,
I , I actually wrote something down . I
mean , I just put down , this is an
absolute mental health success story .
And you know , if , if you're just
tuning in right now or you fast forward
it . Uh You gotta understand what what
Sean has gone through . He's sitting
across me right now . He's a master
sergeant in the Air force right now .
This did , this did not end your career .
This didn't hurt your career whatsoever .
It seems like to me this is , this is
why this is a success story . And I
think what you're sharing right now is
the impact on people that are gonna
listen to this one day . And I'm gonna ,
I'm gonna recommend every leader on
this base . Listen to this , every
single commander sel and first sergeant
at minimum . Listen to your story
because this is , this is what we need
to be able to absorb and then breathe
into our airmen . But II , I just
wanted to point that out . I wrote that
down . I mean , we might even call this
podcast , you know , Sean , um John
Jacob's mental health success story
because this is phenomenal . Um I don't
mean to cut you off . I just , I had to ,
I had to inject there and there's so
many more people in this other than
just the leadership because the
leadership of the NC Os as well from
the flip side , from the ability to
recognize these things because it
wasn't just Sergeant Waddell . There
was also a tech sergeant Peterson who
was my direct supervisor was like ,
Woodell was his supervisor , supervisor .
Um Speaking of which uh Woodell was a
new master surgeon at the time ,
Peterson was a new tech surgeon at the
time . Um I have since run into
Peterson . I deployed with him in 2017 .
So I did get to see him again in my
career when we were both peers . Um but
they came to visit me . Um maybe not
every day , but I , enough that I can
remember them coming and sitting down
with me for an hour watching me and
talk to me about video games or talk to
me about whatever I'm doing , trying to
normalize things . What had me out to
his house multiple times . I wa I drove ,
maybe it's maybe like 20 minutes away
from where I lived in town to the out
of town where he had his own house .
I'd bring my dog there . He had a
little pond , he'd let my dog , you
know , run . He wanted me there . Uh
outside of work , he made it his
personal responsibility to try to bring
me back into the fold and to see where
I was coming from . And again , I
reemphasize , this is a chain of
command that did not know me for a long
time . It's not like I had established
a good relationship uh with this chain
of command necessarily , I'd been less
than a year . I'd also been TDY to
Maguire Air Force Base somewhere in
between there uh for uh intel support
to force protection , which doesn't
exist anymore , but it was sorry . Um
The , but that was an awesome trip . So
I had to come home in the middle of
that one time I went to mental health
and then the next time I went to mental
health , they let me go to a training
because they knew that I could drive
home and go back to my resiliency base ,
my , my family members . Um because I
had nobody in Florida . I had no
structure in Florida . So my chain of
command became my family for a very
short amount of time . They made sure
that I had somebody to talk to and it
isn't even just those two guys . There
were two other NC OS A tech . Uh I
think he's a senior now in active duty ,
if not , not a chief by now . Uh Claire
and then another guy , but his name is
escaping me . And then a captain who
has since retired , that was just the
most bubbly guy . He actually went to
the Merchant Marine Academy and he uh
but his best friend was the under
secretary of the Air Force . So we
ended up going into the Air Force . Um
But he also had a very , very uh big
impression , made a big impression on
me . Um So the whole unit in the grand
scheme of things , I , I think I
mentioned it's not a very big unit .
It's like 50% of the people because it
was a very small Os S , it's only maybe
15 people um made
cognizant decisions and saw something
in me and made sure that what I was
going through and the a DH the um
the depression that I was having
regardless if it was suicide related or
suicide motivated uh or had something
to do with . We think something's gonna
happen to Jacobs if we don't do this ,
that wasn't the case . It was genuine
organic leadership .
It was an ability to understand that
there are warning signs , the ability
to ask the question and then make it
their responsibility to , to care for
and engage with somebody . And
literally , ii I don't wanna also
discount what the civilians did to help
me because I did go to those . It was
more uh just a quick thing on the
outpatient commitment . Um It was kind
of like group therapy . E essentially
uh 99% of the people in that room , um ,
were military related . Um , some of
them were , um , Vietnam vets , some of
them were , a lot of them were
dependents , um , who had things that
were a lot more debilitating than what
I had . And I can tell you , uh , it is
very sobering to go to something like
that in a safe environment where all of
their cards are set out before each
other and it's a no judgment , it's a
judgment free zone and just the horror
that you can hear that some people
experience or have experienced or going
through just to get through their daily
lives sobers you up real quick and it
doesn't , I'm not saying that's what
turned me around , but I'm saying it's
one of those things where you realize
how good you have it no matter how much
you think you've lost . And , and
that's the power of those groups is
because you , when you go through
something like you went through , right ,
you feel like you're the only one going
through it . You , you feel like no one
else will understand you . There's
something wrong with you . I shouldn't
be feeling this way but realizing that
there are others to your point that are
even going through the things that are
even deeper and darker maybe than you
are . So , it gives you that , that
hope in that process . That's why I'm ,
I'm glad you plugged that because so
many military people in general were ,
um we , we're afraid to , to let our
guard down . We are , we're afraid to
talk openly in groups sometimes because
we just don't want to be judged . We do ,
we're afraid for what people might
think of us . But I think the opposite
happens . I think we , there's a
synergy that takes place and we begin
to have more empathy for each other .
We begin to look at each other and say ,
wow , I didn't even know you were going
through something like that . I didn't
realize someone could even experience
that right now . So that gives you
personal perspective as well . Um So
I'm , I'm really glad that you shared
that obviously knowing that you where
you are now . Um I'm not surprised that
this is that your journey through this
mental health challenge that , that you ,
you were confronted with . You know ,
so that's where I got to and I , and I
absolutely got to the point where I'm
starting to be treated . Um I'm letting
things like the group therapy sink in .
I'm , I will be completely honest . I
didn't take the medication . I don't
know why to this day . I don't remember
why . I think I took it the first time .
I had some sort of , and I'm not a
person that's adverse to medication .
I'm not , um , but I'm not someone who
likes to self medicate for any reason .
Um , in , in the grand scheme of things .
I don't know if it would have helped .
I don't know what if it hurt . I still
got to where I needed to be . So I see
it as , as , as good medicine ,
regardless of whether I took the thing
that might have , you know , helped me
with a chemical imbalance or , or some
sort of something that would help take
the edge off . All I can tell you is
after some of them , probably four
weeks , there was , I
started to feel feelings again in the
grand scheme of things . I stopped
getting into my own head and it's
really hard to describe what that feels
like . There's a , there's a couple of
times in my life that I'll , I'll , uh
not relapse but can get a taste of what
that feels like again . Um Namely when
I'm away from my family for a long TDY
or deployment is the deepest I've ever
felt coming close back to the what that
depression tastes like . Um And
just where they're completely rational
thoughts of , of doing harm to
oneself , but they they seem so
simple and an answer to a
problem that shouldn't be in any ,
anybody's reality . But that I do
sometimes and my wife is very cognizant
of that and I'll tell her , um , like
I'll be on facetime with , with my kids
or facetime with her , uh , when I'm at
a long TDY or if I'm , I'm , uh ,
deployed last for 2017 . So it's been a
while since I've had a six month being
gone . Um , but she's very cognizant of
that change in me when I , when I was
just like , I'm feeling that a little
bit and what she'll do is is she knows
that my kids make that disappear . All
they have to do is she's like , hey ,
you want to talk to your dad to say
this , this and that she'll , she'll
pre empt that and that little dose just
brings me back out of the cloud . That
is so it's not something that ever went
away either , but the
treatment and the ability to also know
that my career wasn't gonna be impacted .
What is my future gonna be all of those
things together ? Had a rapid
turnaround . I can tell you in the span
of two months I went from where I was
to , I actually did get the divorce .
It was about November 2014 if my memory
serves . Um , but I had a future
to look forward to because that's
another thing you don't think about is
a lot of suicide victims or a lot of
people that go into major depression
can't see a future regardless of all
those , uh , signposting . And , um ,
all the , the signs that are going on
actually feeling this kind of , um ,
everybody is different . But the two
things that stood out for me was how I
could not enjoy anything and the
ability to not see a clear path in
front of me , not to plan for the
future . That seemed impossible that
there was always something in the way
and it wasn't even rational things that
were in the way that there was no point
to plan for the future . So those
things are turning around is , is this ,
where is this , you mentioned
spirituality at the beginning of this ,
is this where spirituality started to
help you or what , what tools , what
other things were you doing
individually ? I mean , you had you ,
you had a , a strong network around you
regarding , you mentioned your family
in the Air Force , which was huge .
What did you start doing individually ?
Um because it , it seems to me you work
through this in a very short period of
time , very much . So . Um So I'm I'm
just curious like , what can you share
with us this , this kind of foreshadows ,
what I want to talk about in the and I
hope to , to at least talk about a
little bit during this podcast . And is
those pillars of resilience ? I can
tell you looking back from an educated
analysis of what happened in my life
that I almost was deficient in every
single one of those . I was not
somebody who liked to be physically fit .
I did the minimum that I had to do to
get past and I had multiple pt failures
in Alaska and it wasn't for a lack of
trying . It was just shift work plus
nine months of winter , regardless of
how much you go to the , go to the gym
and with a waist measurement , it , it
was , it was tough for me . So it
wasn't something that I was , you know ,
really good at . So my physical
resiliency was not , not the best . It
wasn't , I wasn't bad but I , I wasn't
the best . I wasn't , I wasn't where I
should be . I didn't , like I said ,
have a network around me . That network
came into play . It made itself
available . So I didn't have that . I
didn't have that pillar . I didn't have
a spiritual pillar because I'm agnostic ,
uh , an atheist to a certain point .
But you talk about the spiritualism .
Oddly enough , the spiritualism that I
got at that time that , um , since I
had the family and I started getting
physically fit , actually when I was
there because I was worried about a PT
test that was in December . Um , my
wife's daughter , my daughter now , um ,
was about 2 , 2.5 years old and I found
something in her because we started ,
we started our dialogue while I was
going through this . It was a weird
thing . Um I was getting divorced . I
went back home for that intel support
to force protection , TDY . And I ran
into her and her and I just started
talking as friends and she had a two
year old daughter and she was a single
mother and things like that . And I
just found the joy in talking to Emma
um became my spirit , spiritual guide
was the just the joy for life and the
discovery and the idea of something so
pure , keeping myself
alive to watch that unfurl
that became my spiritual guiding
regardless of it was cognizant at the
time or not . That's what I think it
was , it gave you a meaning and purpose ,
right ? And I think that's , that's
what you're kind of conveying right
there by looking at her and seeing you
want to see her grow , you wanted to be
part of developing her and just that
gave you life that you didn't have
before . Yeah , it's , it's amazing how
these four pillars . And again , I ,
you and I never had even a discussion
prior to this podcast how these four
pillars are just um they're , they're
not just randomly thrown out there for
the Air Force . And by the way , do you
know all the other branches of services
have the same four pillars ? I came
from the army . So we have them as well ,
and I think too often we just kind of
throw them out there as like fitness do
PT test . That's way more than that .
These are lifestyle pillars that we
need to work into our being and who we
are . Um Because when we do that look ,
you're , you're a perfect example of
that , you just mentioned that you
didn't have fitness , you didn't have
the social , you didn't have the
spiritual , you were going through the
mental , right ? But you're where you
are today because now you have a plan
around these four areas of your life
and you're not complicating it to be ,
oh my gosh , I gotta do my mental
resiliency today . No , you just , you ,
you live life accordingly to these four
areas and it makes you the best you ,
so you could be the best you for airmen
that are below you next to you above
you so that you're able to actually
reciprocate um what your , your folks
did on active duty for you when you
were going through this hard time .
Absolutely . And I don't treat them as
a religion in the sense that I think
that they're different to everybody .
But I can identify where I was
predispositioned for a disaster based
on not having these strong pillars .
Would I have still gone through
depression and still might have , you
know , encountered those i ideas of ,
of , of suicide and thoughts of suicide
to the point where I bought a rope and
thought I was gonna do it . It might
have happened , but I would have had
something to bounce back . It would
have been easier to recover . And
without those strong pillars or at
least three or two or any of them ,
you're gonna crash . And it really , in
the , in the grand scheme of things ,
the ability to at
least work on one of them or , or
decide that those are yours . Uh Those
are things that you can do for yourself
to make yourself the better you really
is , is everything that I've done in
the last 10 years , whether it was a
cognizant choice or not , has really
led in that path because of this
experience because I don't want
myself or anyone else to have to feel
that depth of despair and
basically have to touch the ideas to ,
to , to want , um to not be here
anymore because I would have not done
the amazing things that I've gotten to
do . I would have not been able to help
the people and I also would not have
brought another person into this world .
Yeah . Yeah . Well , and for those of
you that are listening , you , you ,
you , you're not gonna see or you , you
know , prior to , um where we are now
in the state of the podcast when Sean
was talking about um how you were
feeling back in , in the time you were
having your , you know , the , the
struggle you got , you got emotional .
Obviously , it's still , it has
impacted you and that that's something
that you , we need to keep using to ,
to move us forward , right ? To keep us
focused . And so you guys didn't see
that , but it , it , it still obviously
has impacted him . And um I think
there's something good about it . You
know , there's something good about
communicating your story , doing what
you're doing right now is cathartic . I
know it is and it's not only for you ,
but you know how many people are
listening to this that you're gonna
help today ? You know , I , I , I'll
tell you that , um I was gonna ask you
to and I'm still going to do this , but
I was gonna ask you to target young
folks that might be struggling with
trying to get a rhythm . But this
doesn't apply to young . It , it
applies to everybody , your , your
airman who is in student flight right
now to the colonel , the general who's
about to retire could be somewhere
missing one of these things or
struggling with something . So I'll ask
you as a senior NCO who's lived with
this experience and he's thriving right
now and doing great work . What , what
are some things as we , we kind of
close here today that you would offer
up maybe in , in each of these four
areas that , that they , they could
begin doing right now if they're just
like in a rut and you're stuck , they
don't know what to do next . Can you
offer some ? Yeah , some resources .
Absolutely . So from a recent uh from
an in individual standpoint , not
necessarily resources . Cause I'll get
to that point . I think the easiest
thing that I could say is set the goals
for yourself that are related to these
four pillars physically . For myself .
This year , I was telling uh uh master
and Duke Elliott uh Harmon , right
before this , when we were having
breakfast , he was so good to take me
out to breakfast before the podcast .
So shout out to him , Duke's the man .
He , I was telling him that all the
great things that I was doing this year .
And he's like , oh , well , why are you
doing all these things ? And I said , I
haven't told anybody this yet , but at
the beginning of this year , I said
individual goals , not , not just like
your , not just like your , your annual
goal that you do on New Year's and then
we accomplish some of them don't
accomplish . I made a cognizant choice
to pick goals related to resiliency to
see if I can do them for my . So here
in about 30 days , I'm gonna be running
the uh the Marine Corps marathon and uh
i it's gonna hurt and I am nowhere near
where I should be , but I'm gonna get
it done and uh it's gonna be 14 minute
pace . But um I mean , I can run a half
marathon but all the other things I did
this year did kind of impact my
training plan . So that was one thing ,
that's my physical goal . That's a guy
who didn't run more than a five K ,
three years ago trying to get at 37
years old to a Marine Corps marathon
just because to see if I can do it and
hopefully inspire myself to stay alive
longer . Um , physically , the second
part of it was to find out what
spiritually motivated me . And , uh ,
and oddly enough , it's still the same
thing . It's been since Emma saved my
life 10 years ago . And it's my family
and it's um the people that I serve
every day at the one a third A OG , as
well as uh Pennsylvania International
Guard . Those people are the reason I
get up every day and do what I do . Um
because they make me , they give me
purpose . Uh It's not because I feel
like , um that I want to be better than
anyone else or that I want to rise to
the top of this , of the hierarchy .
And that , that is a cliche . It's the
fact that the purpose in my life is to
continue to do my job . Some people
call that a workaholic . Some people
call that other things . But that's the
spiritual thing that , that gets to me .
And as long as I have those I can think
of when I'm running in the marathon ,
I'll think in the back of my head .
I'll think my daughter will be like ,
if my daughter was in danger , I could
do this for five minutes . I can do
anything for 10 minutes , sort of thing .
And then when it comes to the social
and mental aspect , the mental part
I'll get to last because that's who I
want to shout out at the end of this .
But the social aspect was trying to do
a better job of being inclusionary
um when it comes to our unit . So this
year I had the benefit and this has
nothing to do with me . This was , this
was saying yes , the power of yes to
all the opportunities to do stuff with
our NATO partners , all the
opportunities to do stuff with our Penn
State partners with our Army National
Guard partners and trying to help build
better relationships and uh trying to
add utility because I'm a person , I'm
a totalitarian by heart . If anybody
out there doesn't have to Google that
word , but I , I believe in utility . I
believe in things that you can use to
move your way forward . It's a good
thing to have a vision . It's a good
thing to have an objective . But if you
don't have the tools to get it done and
I and me as an NCO can't give you those
tools , then what good am I ? So my
social connection creating paths for
everyone to do what we're here to do
and that is to defend this nation and
defend the commonwealth . So that ,
that is my social aspect . It's , it's
more social as in um organization ,
organization and personable than it is
the , let's say social culture , but it ,
but it is social and then the last one
is the mental and this is something
that bleeds from this year and this is
more um kind of a , a thing and I have
a patch on my arm . Uh , if anyone has
been to the resiliency website or knows
about holistic , uh , airman or uh
comprehensive airman fitness ,
hopefully has seen the Fortified The
Force Initiative , uh , that has been
endorsed by the , by the Chief Mas
Sergeant of the Air Force as well as
our , um , uh General Brown on our way
out in the last two years and is
fortify , the force is really an
organic organization , not focus
necessarily on doing what everyone else
either is mandated to do or hopes to do
within our military infrastructure . Um ,
because there are so many great
resources out there and there are so
many great people within the unit ,
whether it be a first sergeant ,
whether it be a chaplain , whether it
be the DPH , whether it be our mental
health professionals or your NCO , that
makes the pivotal moment in my life to
change my life . That's the one I
wanted to focus on is the NCO that was
in my life that changed my life .
And we've done a lot over the last 10
years to help open up the aperture to
focus on mental health and provide all
the opportunities and get rid of the
stigma and even even add mandatory
training that has mixed signals . Um
from a lot of people , this is
organically looking at the people who
are passionate about helping within the
ranks and to propagate good mental
health and resiliency through the
pillars . These are people who have
either be experienced mental health
problems or suicide ideations or
somebody who has a family member ,
someone within the ranks that wants to
explore what they have and be that
sounding board to be the next tech
sergeant Waddell who saved somebody's
life and , and may never know what kind
of impact they made because we never
saw him again . Uh If I ever put on
senior or chief , I can tell you who
I'm going to try to find to go to my ,
my ceremony is gonna be that NCO and
share this podcast with him beforehand
too . To , just to , to whet his
appetite . You know what I mean to prep
him for it . Seriously . Yeah . So the ,
the tool sets that , that you were
asking me about . Absolutely . Use your
military one source . Absolutely . Open
up your Air Force connect app and hit
the resiliency button or , or get with
your first sergeants , get with your
DPHS . Get with your chaplains about
the re the plethora and myriad of , of
different resiliency items and get
involved . You don't have to do this
necessarily because your chain of
command wants you to or you feel like
you're getting behind in something
because it's not about necessarily
about keeping yourself from being um
mentally unfit or keeping yourself um ,
or passing your PT test . It is about
making sure that you have the ability
to adapt to anything more than anything
in this air force . We are trying to
adapt , overcome , accelerate and
change . And if you are not resilient ,
those things are never gonna happen ,
they are never gonna come to you
because you're gonna be doing too much
and you're never gonna be able to fall
back on anything . So taking the time
to take a walk and to clear your head ,
taking the time for 30 minutes to run
when you don't wanna run , taking the
time to talk to somebody else to build
better relationships and then also
paying that service forward . That's
what I want to say . Fortify the force
is gonna do and in the grand scheme of
things , my , my , my last goal for the
year is to stop playing lip service and
to actually do something and take
action . So I'm trying , uh personally ,
I'm trying to put together the first
Pennsylvania um chapter of Fortify the
Force . So anybody , absolutely that
hears this podcast can reach out to me
via email . It's not something that's
organized yet . I'm , um , you know ,
it's a brainchild , I went to a FAA
couple of weeks ago and I talked to
their leadership for 45 minutes and ,
and finally stopped thinking that this
was just something I would love to do
and something I'm going to do . Well ,
you know what , throw out there , your
uh your email if you want to go ahead .
Uh My email is uh Shawn , so Sean uh
spelled the right way . Uh So Sean dot
Jacobs 0.6 at us dot A
f.mil . Um definitely in the global .
Uh if you , if you know Duke Carmen
here at the 111 , he'll get you in
touch with me , you know , major rep ,
I'm sure somebody can , can get you my
contact information because I know
there's , there's 5000 people that
follow their web page . There's 10 ,
tens of thousands of people that have
seen the resiliency web page . And if
they scroll down the whole way to the
bottom , they'll see the fortify the
force . Unfortunately , it's still ,
you know , it's an organic organization .
It is not something mandated by dod by
the Department of the Air Force . It is
something that is trying regardless of
being sponsored to propagate itself
in a , in a , in a heavy demand signal
world . But I think it's simple enough ,
it's something that gets people
involved but doesn't necessarily ask so
much of them . It's more than in , in ,
you know , incurring your normal
suicide prevention training once a year
or thinking about mental health when it
comes to your PM E or other things .
It's an ability for you to at least
talk to somebody about a person because
it could be even just an open
conversation , be like I have somebody
in this situation . What can I do to
help you ? Because I don't know , I can
talk to my first surgeon . I can talk
to my chaplain . But you're an intel
professional who has dealt with the ,
the idioms or not idioms . But the um
the misconceptions of what this can do
to your , your clearance , your career
as an operator . And , and just
convince me that I need to ask those
questions because it may be that
fortify the force.org again , fortify
the force.org is the , is the site if
you haven't been there . And that's
what Sean's referencing here . Um Go
ahead and take a look and , and look ,
iii I love the fact too . Um You hit on
these four pillars and I think this is
why it's important for us to be setting
goals around them as we as again , as
we truly close up this podcast . And I ,
I , again , there's so much great
information , transparency leadership
that you display just by sitting here
and doing this . Um If you again , if
you have any desire to get involved ,
reach out to Sean , he threw his email
out there . Look him up in Global Sean
Jacobs , Messer and Sean Jacobs . And
um these four pillars though , the
difference between you having goals
around them and working and doing
something um with them is when you hit
the brick wall because listen , you ,
you're listening to this podcast ,
every one of us is going to hit a brick
wall . It's going to happen how high it
is , how thick it is , how big I can't
tell you that , but we don't want to
hit that brick wall and have zero
ability to get through it . And this is
why these four pillars give us some
tools . So when we hit it , we know how
and where and why to work through it .
And I think that's the most important
thing in this whole whole process is
not that we will not face adversity ,
guys , we will face adversity . This is
to help us get through overcome , pay
it forward by helping other airmen out
other family members out so that we can
move forward and be the best selves
that we can be . Right ? And so , hey ,
Sean again , I really appreciate you
coming down here being transparent and
sharing your story and I'm looking
forward to this podcast um being
released . We'll make sure that , you
know , you know , share it with the 1
93rd . We obviously do that here at the
1/11 . I wanna get this to senior
leaders here . Maybe even at N GB , I
know N GB has listened to the podcast
as well . If this could help just one
airman , man , you , you , you've done
your job and , uh , I really hope one
day you get to connect with your , your
tech sergeant there at some point so
you could thank him and thank those
that literally saved your life .
Absolutely . And , and that , if I had
to end on one thing , I would
absolutely try to say that as an NCO ,
as an airman , as an individual and a
human , we are all responsible for each
other and the impact that you make
is more than you'll ever know . And
like I said , I've never gotten to go
back . I did thank that tech sergeant
and I did absolutely co convey that to
his chain of command on my out brief .
That's what I said is that I , I sat
down with the , the squadron commander
at the end and said , hey , how can you
recognize this individual ? Because
what I didn't talk about was I got to
come to the world's greatest Air
National Guard here in Pennsylvania .
After that fact , they enabled me and
saw that , hey , you're coming to the
end of your enlistment . The National
Guard is there . We're not gonna try .
We're gonna love if you'd stay , but we
want you to move on and grow and heal .
We know your family's back there . We
know that's what you want to do . And
they enabled me also that family , that
support structure , that NCO Corps and
that , that officer of leadership
enabled me to make the transition to
the National Guard where I didn't know
I was going to be where I am now , but
like thriving and thinking back on that
and thinking of what a pivotal moment
that you only have a few in your life .
But that is the one that was affected
by only one other person . Yeah . And
use those moments in our lives that
when we do run into difficulties , they
are springboards for us . They are
truly springboards to help us move
forward in life . So again , Sean , hey ,
thanks so much for coming . Um Thank
you for tuning in here to the Balance
Podcast . Again , we try to deliver
some content here that , um , it , it
can change your life , the bottom line .
Um That's what we're here to do . And ,
um , again , I hope you tune in , you
continue to tune in and we'll , we'll ,
you know , more , more , more of a
follow on just other great content
surrounding those four areas of
comprehensive air and fitness . Again ,
this is , uh chaplain Tony Repe at one
left attack wing Biddle International
Guard Base and we are out . Have a
great day . Hey , this is Chapin Tony
Repe here . I just want to remind you
that this podcast does not imply any
endorsement of any commercial
organization , product or belief system .