WEBVTT 00:09.229 --> 00:11.396 All right , good morning . Uh Today is 00:11.396 --> 00:14.350 February 2nd 2024 and the time is now 00:14.359 --> 00:17.920 9:10 a.m. Eastern Standard Time . Uh We 00:17.930 --> 00:20.041 are back on the record for the formal 00:20.041 --> 00:21.763 hearing regarding the fire and 00:21.763 --> 00:23.374 subsequent fire fatalities , 00:23.374 --> 00:25.597 firefighter fatalities that occurred on 00:25.597 --> 00:27.652 board the Grande Casa de vio on July 00:27.652 --> 00:30.829 5th 2023 in Newark , New Jersey . I'm 00:30.840 --> 00:32.729 Commander Christian Barger of the 00:32.729 --> 00:34.729 United States Coast Guard . I'm the 00:34.729 --> 00:36.729 lead investigating officer for this 00:36.729 --> 00:38.951 first district formal investigation and 00:38.951 --> 00:40.784 the presiding officer over these 00:40.784 --> 00:43.330 proceedings . The first Coast Guard 00:43.340 --> 00:45.173 district commander convened this 00:45.173 --> 00:47.229 investigation under the authority of 00:47.229 --> 00:49.770 title 46 United States code section 63 00:49.779 --> 00:52.599 01 and title 46 code of federal 00:52.610 --> 00:55.720 regulations . Part four . Our purpose 00:55.729 --> 00:57.729 is to investigate the circumstances 00:57.729 --> 00:59.507 surrounding this incident . The 00:59.507 --> 01:01.729 investigation will determine as closely 01:01.729 --> 01:03.729 as possible , the circumstances and 01:03.729 --> 01:05.507 factors that contributed to the 01:05.507 --> 01:07.729 incident so that proper recommendations 01:07.729 --> 01:09.840 to prevent similar recurrences can be 01:09.840 --> 01:12.062 made . Besides myself , the Coast Guard 01:12.062 --> 01:14.173 invest investigation team consists of 01:14.173 --> 01:16.340 Lieutenant Commander Stephanie Moore , 01:16.459 --> 01:18.540 Mr Willie Pittman and Lieutenant 01:18.550 --> 01:20.883 Brandon Reed , who is also the recorder , 01:21.680 --> 01:23.791 legal counsel to the investigation is 01:23.791 --> 01:26.819 Lieutenant Commander Catherine Ward the 01:26.830 --> 01:29.052 National Transportation Safety Board is 01:29.052 --> 01:31.300 also participating in this hearing . Mr 01:31.309 --> 01:33.253 Bart Barnum is the investigator in 01:33.253 --> 01:35.476 charge for the N TSB and is assisted by 01:35.476 --> 01:38.669 Miss Nancy mcatee . The Coast Guard has 01:38.680 --> 01:40.847 designated five parties in interest to 01:40.847 --> 01:42.958 this investigation . We will now take 01:42.958 --> 01:45.013 appearances for each party as I call 01:45.013 --> 01:47.389 each Grimaldi Deep Sea 01:53.889 --> 01:56.056 and Mr Levy , I think you're on mute . 01:56.970 --> 01:59.192 Thank you . Uh , good morning commander 01:59.192 --> 02:01.303 and everyone . I'm John Levy from the 02:01.303 --> 02:03.470 law firm of Montgomery mccracken . And 02:03.470 --> 02:06.580 we represent Grimaldi . Ok . And uh I'm 02:06.589 --> 02:08.811 sorry , please spell your last name for 02:08.811 --> 02:12.199 the record . Uh uh Levy . 02:13.509 --> 02:17.330 Thank you and for Ports America morning , 02:17.339 --> 02:19.740 Gino Zhe for Ports America from the 02:19.750 --> 02:23.610 Firm of Kathman . Doit Zonghe 02:23.619 --> 02:27.449 tt I thank you , uh American 02:27.460 --> 02:30.330 Maritime Services in New York , Tanner , 02:30.339 --> 02:32.283 honey , of the law firm Freehill , 02:32.283 --> 02:34.395 Hogan and Mahar on behalf of American 02:34.395 --> 02:36.450 Maritime Services in New York . Ok . 02:36.450 --> 02:38.617 Thank you . And for the port authority 02:38.617 --> 02:42.199 of New York , New Jersey , John Reilly 02:42.210 --> 02:45.899 Reilly for the uh 02:47.910 --> 02:51.490 with the port authority . Thank you and 02:51.500 --> 02:54.820 for the city of Newark . Good morning , 02:54.830 --> 02:57.660 everyone . My name is Gary Lipshutz L 02:57.669 --> 03:01.570 IP Shutz First 03:01.580 --> 03:03.979 Assistant Corporation Council City of 03:03.990 --> 03:07.000 Newark . And uh I'm here for the city 03:07.009 --> 03:09.199 and the Department of Public Safety 03:09.210 --> 03:11.300 Division of Fire . Good morning . 03:13.149 --> 03:16.970 Thank you . Ok , 03:16.979 --> 03:18.868 this morning we will continue our 03:18.868 --> 03:20.812 formal proceedings through virtual 03:20.812 --> 03:23.146 witness testimony using Microsoft teams . 03:23.350 --> 03:25.669 Today's witness is Mr Marion Humala 03:25.679 --> 03:27.800 third mate on the grande casa de Buro 03:27.809 --> 03:31.279 on July 5th 2023 Lieutenant 03:31.289 --> 03:33.622 Reid . Please swear in the witness , uh , 03:33.622 --> 03:35.050 and the translator . 03:39.500 --> 03:42.429 Good morning . Um , the following 03:42.440 --> 03:44.273 witness may require the use of a 03:44.273 --> 03:46.759 translator . Mr Klia , will you please 03:46.770 --> 03:47.770 come on screen ? 03:50.869 --> 03:53.619 Yes , sir . Good morning . Good morning . 03:54.110 --> 03:58.070 Uh , please raise your right hand . Do 03:58.080 --> 04:00.024 you swear that you will faithfully 04:00.024 --> 04:02.247 perform the duties of an interpreter in 04:02.247 --> 04:04.524 this investigation ? So help you . God . 04:04.539 --> 04:07.309 Yes , sir . All right , thank you . You 04:07.320 --> 04:11.119 may look in uh please state your name 04:11.130 --> 04:13.463 and spell your last name for the record . 04:16.269 --> 04:19.510 My name , sir . Yes , my name is Tudor 04:19.809 --> 04:23.809 Klia . Last name Klia spelled as Calig 04:23.820 --> 04:26.540 A . All right , thank you very much . 04:26.869 --> 04:30.230 Thank you . And Mr Talla , please raise 04:30.239 --> 04:34.079 your right hand . A false statement to 04:34.089 --> 04:35.978 an agency of the United States is 04:35.978 --> 04:38.145 punishable by fine and or imprisonment 04:38.145 --> 04:41.130 under title 18 US code 1001 . Knowing 04:41.140 --> 04:43.251 this , do you solemnly swear that the 04:43.251 --> 04:45.418 testimony you're about to give will be 04:45.418 --> 04:47.640 the truth , the whole truth and nothing 04:47.640 --> 04:49.862 but the truth . So help you God . Yes , 04:49.862 --> 04:52.540 I do . Thank you very much . Uh I will 04:52.549 --> 04:55.119 now ask a few preliminary questions for 04:55.130 --> 04:59.109 you . Ok . Please state your name and 04:59.119 --> 05:01.230 spell your last name for the record . 05:01.390 --> 05:04.700 My name is Marian Chuma . Last name 05:04.709 --> 05:07.489 Ciuml A 05:08.440 --> 05:12.109 thank you very much on July 5th 2023 . 05:12.119 --> 05:14.609 What was your profession ? I was a 05:14.619 --> 05:18.160 third officer on board of Grande Costa 05:18.170 --> 05:22.089 de volo and who were you employed by , 05:22.100 --> 05:24.790 at that time I was employed by a 05:24.799 --> 05:28.250 Grimaldi dipsy . Ok . What 05:29.000 --> 05:31.167 certificates and certifications do you 05:31.167 --> 05:34.910 hold for that position ? Uh , all the 05:35.130 --> 05:38.470 require , require the certificates for 05:38.480 --> 05:40.579 an , uh , deck officer ? The basic 05:40.589 --> 05:41.589 requirements ? 05:45.399 --> 05:47.566 All right . And how long have you been 05:47.566 --> 05:49.788 serving as a third mate ? On the Grande 05:49.788 --> 05:52.820 Costa de Oreo ? Uh , it was my , uh , 05:52.829 --> 05:55.329 my first , uh , time working with , uh , 05:55.339 --> 05:59.339 Grimaldi . It was my time there . Ok . 05:59.350 --> 06:01.628 And ho how long have you been on board ? 06:02.450 --> 06:06.359 Um , starting from uh , first of 06:06.369 --> 06:09.799 April , so three months . 06:10.299 --> 06:13.119 Ok . Thank you very much , Mr Talla , 06:13.130 --> 06:15.352 Commander Barger , the witness is ready 06:15.352 --> 06:16.352 to proceed . 06:19.529 --> 06:21.920 Ok . Thank you , Lieutenant Reid . Uh , 06:21.929 --> 06:24.100 I will leave the questions for this 06:24.109 --> 06:27.950 witness . Uh Good 06:27.959 --> 06:30.149 morning , Mr Chal . Good morning . 06:33.820 --> 06:36.309 What is the highest rating of 06:36.320 --> 06:38.487 certification as a ship's officer that 06:38.487 --> 06:41.799 you hold ? Can you repeat , please ? 06:42.549 --> 06:44.605 What , what is the highest rating or 06:44.605 --> 06:46.605 what , what is the highest level of 06:46.605 --> 06:48.771 ship's officer license that you hold ? 06:48.771 --> 06:52.190 Is , it is third mate the highest , uh , 06:52.630 --> 06:55.720 on uh Grimaldi ? Yes , I was only the 06:55.950 --> 06:58.809 third officer but before Grimaldi , I 06:58.820 --> 07:01.989 was the second officer . Ok . 07:02.679 --> 07:05.390 So your , your license or credential ? 07:05.399 --> 07:08.260 Is that as a second officer ? 07:09.230 --> 07:12.250 Uh , the license for the third officer 07:12.260 --> 07:14.371 and second officer is the same , it's 07:14.371 --> 07:17.079 operational level . So it's the same , 07:17.089 --> 07:20.489 uh , license . Ok . Actually you are on 07:20.519 --> 07:22.670 deck officer , deck officer . Ok . 07:24.989 --> 07:27.089 And then what , uh , training and 07:27.100 --> 07:29.649 education have you had uh to become a 07:29.660 --> 07:33.070 ship's officer . If you want to become 07:33.079 --> 07:36.779 a ship's officer , it's compulsory you , 07:36.790 --> 07:39.700 you have to finish the one to finish 07:39.709 --> 07:41.790 one Maritime university . And I 07:41.799 --> 07:44.239 finished the Maritime University here 07:44.250 --> 07:47.859 in my city in constant . OK . And , and 07:47.869 --> 07:49.758 what year did you finish ? Uh the 07:49.758 --> 07:52.470 Maritime University ? Excuse me ? In 07:52.480 --> 07:54.369 what year did you finish ? Uh the 07:54.369 --> 07:57.750 Maritime University ? I finished it in 07:57.760 --> 07:59.209 uh 2017 . 08:01.700 --> 08:04.760 And did you begin sailing uh on 08:04.820 --> 08:06.709 commercial ships ? Uh immediately 08:06.709 --> 08:10.480 thereafter ? No , before in 2015 , but 08:10.489 --> 08:12.656 I was only deck guarded at that time . 08:13.640 --> 08:16.820 Ok . And then after you graduated the 08:16.829 --> 08:19.410 Maritime University , uh did you begin 08:19.420 --> 08:22.989 sailing on your license then ? No , 08:23.089 --> 08:26.200 after that , I was on several uh 08:26.209 --> 08:28.859 companies on several vessels , type of 08:28.869 --> 08:32.590 types of vessels like an uh A B after 08:32.599 --> 08:36.398 that I became uh an officer . Ok . 08:37.369 --> 08:39.536 And what types of cargo ships have you 08:39.536 --> 08:43.390 sailed on ? Uh I was on a 08:43.400 --> 08:47.200 container vessels . I was on a tanker 08:47.210 --> 08:50.840 vessels . Uh I was on uh 08:50.849 --> 08:54.650 hope a dredger vessels . Uh 08:54.659 --> 08:58.090 And the last one was the roro from uh 08:58.099 --> 09:01.719 from Grimaldi . It 09:01.729 --> 09:05.729 was uh so was the Grande Casa de Vio 09:05.739 --> 09:07.969 the first row row that you worked on ? 09:08.719 --> 09:09.190 Yes . 09:18.729 --> 09:20.840 And you mentioned , uh I believe that 09:21.890 --> 09:24.112 you started on board the Grande Casa de 09:24.112 --> 09:27.309 vio for the first time in April of 2023 . 09:27.320 --> 09:29.598 Is that correct ? Yes , that's correct . 09:29.598 --> 09:32.419 It . And where was the ship located 09:32.429 --> 09:35.489 when you joined it , uh 09:36.609 --> 09:40.200 in Dakar , West 09:40.210 --> 09:41.880 Africa . Ok . 09:44.900 --> 09:47.122 And during your three months on board , 09:47.130 --> 09:51.080 uh up to July 5th , 2023 was there 09:51.090 --> 09:54.539 much change of the crew while you were 09:54.549 --> 09:58.049 on board ? Yes , there were 09:58.059 --> 10:01.469 several changes of the crew . Ok . Did 10:01.479 --> 10:03.423 the , did the captain or the chief 10:03.423 --> 10:05.646 officer change , uh , while you were on 10:05.646 --> 10:08.239 board over those three months only 10:08.250 --> 10:09.250 chief officer ? 10:16.590 --> 10:18.799 and during your three months , uh how 10:18.809 --> 10:22.599 many , how many po calls estimation ? 10:22.609 --> 10:25.159 How many port calls uh did you make 10:25.169 --> 10:26.725 with the Grande Costa goo ? 10:28.659 --> 10:32.039 Um a lot of them . Ok . 10:32.049 --> 10:35.369 More than 10 , it's more than 10 , more 10:35.380 --> 10:37.929 than 10 . Ok . And , and cargo 10:37.940 --> 10:41.119 operations uh with , with roll on , 10:41.130 --> 10:43.408 roll off , cargo was conducted in each . 10:43.840 --> 10:44.380 Yes . 10:53.679 --> 10:56.299 And as the third mate or third officer 10:56.309 --> 10:59.030 on board , uh the Grande casa de vio uh 10:59.049 --> 11:00.940 what , what were your duties , 11:02.900 --> 11:06.320 my duties in navigation or on or , or 11:06.349 --> 11:08.739 all of them ? Uh Let's , let's start 11:08.750 --> 11:12.309 with that . C let's see . So 11:12.650 --> 11:15.049 taking care of navigation , of course , 11:15.979 --> 11:19.960 uh taking care of uh documents when I'm 11:19.969 --> 11:22.229 talking about documents , I mean pre 11:22.330 --> 11:25.750 arrival in port , departure from ports . 11:26.750 --> 11:30.679 Uh Of course , I'm charging navigation 11:30.690 --> 11:34.099 as I said passage planning and uh 11:34.340 --> 11:38.289 updating the , the publication , the E 11:38.299 --> 11:42.080 I and in general , this is uh uh and 11:42.090 --> 11:44.257 also I am in charge of the hospital in 11:44.257 --> 11:46.368 this company . I was in charge of the 11:46.368 --> 11:47.368 hospital also . 11:52.260 --> 11:55.739 And when you say hospital , um where 11:55.750 --> 11:58.083 was that located on the ship ? And what , 11:58.083 --> 12:00.400 what kind of uh can you describe the 12:00.409 --> 12:03.869 facilities ? Yes , it's uh 12:04.729 --> 12:08.190 most uh most part of it , it's f it's , 12:08.200 --> 12:11.590 first of all , it's located in uh deck 12:11.599 --> 12:15.150 12 but uh in front of the , in front of 12:15.159 --> 12:18.659 the bridge . Yes . And uh inside we 12:18.669 --> 12:21.590 have of course bed beds for uh 12:22.750 --> 12:25.719 for injured people if we have any , 12:26.520 --> 12:29.849 the medicine which is uh compulsory to 12:29.859 --> 12:33.549 have on uh our type of vessel . And I 12:33.559 --> 12:35.448 am in charge of uh checking their 12:35.448 --> 12:37.900 expiration date and of course , of the 12:37.909 --> 12:40.590 inventory of uh this uh medicine to be 12:40.599 --> 12:43.070 sure it's there . If somebody has some 12:43.080 --> 12:46.979 problem , I have to , I have to give 12:46.989 --> 12:50.099 the pills to them . But uh only after I 12:50.109 --> 12:51.942 inform the captain only with his 12:51.942 --> 12:54.719 permission , I give the medicine . Ok . 12:55.010 --> 12:58.390 All right . Thank you . Um And then 12:58.400 --> 13:00.950 your duties uh when the ship's in port , 13:03.539 --> 13:07.419 when we are in port depends uh if we 13:07.429 --> 13:10.130 go in the next port and it's very close . 13:10.140 --> 13:12.473 Of course , I have to prepare again the , 13:12.473 --> 13:14.473 the documents , the pre arrival and 13:14.479 --> 13:17.900 departure documents for the ports and 13:17.909 --> 13:20.719 uh in the rest , I'm in charge of uh 13:20.729 --> 13:24.599 the cargo operation and the 13:24.609 --> 13:27.299 supervise the supervising of uh of uh 13:27.309 --> 13:29.198 chief officer . He is the one who 13:29.198 --> 13:32.320 indicates where I have to be ok . 13:33.619 --> 13:36.559 And then during a typical cargo 13:36.570 --> 13:39.210 operation , uh when you're involved 13:39.219 --> 13:42.200 with it . What , what are your actual , 13:42.210 --> 13:45.669 what's your tasking ? Uh 13:45.679 --> 13:49.200 Depends on the orders I received from 13:49.210 --> 13:51.820 uh from chief officer . I can stay in 13:51.830 --> 13:54.159 uh the cargo control room to check . Of 13:54.169 --> 13:56.002 course , the , the balance , the 13:56.002 --> 13:58.058 healing of the , of the vessel , the 13:58.058 --> 14:01.539 ventilation . And uh if he says to 14:01.549 --> 14:04.510 move the to the specific uh deck , 14:04.520 --> 14:06.576 where is the , the , the operation , 14:06.576 --> 14:08.298 the loading of the discharging 14:08.298 --> 14:10.353 operation ? I have to stay there and 14:10.353 --> 14:12.859 supervise the , the , the cargo 14:12.869 --> 14:14.840 operation to see if there are any 14:14.849 --> 14:17.900 incidents or not , if the cargo is the 14:17.909 --> 14:20.500 correct cargo and to inspect the , the 14:20.510 --> 14:21.510 cargo plant . 14:32.469 --> 14:34.840 And then as far as in the , in the case 14:34.849 --> 14:37.469 of an emergency , um what are your 14:37.479 --> 14:39.770 duties as third mate as it relates to 14:39.780 --> 14:43.280 the muster list uh for either abandoned 14:43.289 --> 14:44.969 ship or uh fire 14:46.690 --> 14:49.500 depending uh on the situation . As you 14:49.510 --> 14:53.010 said , if it's an abandoned on or fire , 14:53.020 --> 14:56.849 uh on board , the , my duty is 14:56.859 --> 15:00.479 to go to the master station , confirm 15:00.489 --> 15:03.770 uh my uh position and uh the , the 15:03.780 --> 15:06.669 presence of my uh team members that 15:06.679 --> 15:09.130 they are there in the master uh station 15:09.289 --> 15:11.349 with the captain . I mean , and uh 15:11.359 --> 15:14.460 after we have to uh at his order , we 15:14.469 --> 15:16.390 have to proceed to the hospital . 15:18.440 --> 15:21.900 Ok . And until we receive uh other uh 15:21.909 --> 15:25.409 other uh instruction from him , ok . 15:25.530 --> 15:28.450 And in the case of a fire , um what are 15:28.460 --> 15:30.940 your duties specific ? See that I think 15:31.609 --> 15:34.599 depending on the situation , it's the 15:34.609 --> 15:38.239 same . But if I am the officer on duty , 15:38.250 --> 15:41.520 like happened this time , I have uh 15:41.530 --> 15:43.119 other duties to do . 15:45.770 --> 15:49.299 Ok . So just to 15:49.309 --> 15:51.840 clarify during a , a fire , when you 15:51.849 --> 15:55.390 are not the officer on duty , you would 15:55.719 --> 15:57.719 be responsible for reporting to the 15:57.719 --> 16:00.359 hospital . Yes , I am the , the , the 16:00.369 --> 16:03.739 first a team uh team leader . Ok . 16:05.140 --> 16:07.919 And is there uh other team members 16:07.929 --> 16:10.630 assigned to the hospital with you ? Yes . 16:11.440 --> 16:13.662 Uh Who , who would those be in the case 16:13.662 --> 16:17.049 of a fire uh on this vessel 16:17.770 --> 16:21.719 was the cook , the oiler and the , 16:21.729 --> 16:22.669 the messman . 16:29.200 --> 16:31.700 And then if you , if you are the 16:31.710 --> 16:35.460 officer on duty during a fire , uh 16:36.219 --> 16:38.719 who would , who would man the hospital ? 16:39.260 --> 16:43.059 Uh if you have other duties if I am on 16:43.070 --> 16:46.590 duty 1st , 1st , I need to see uh 16:46.599 --> 16:49.840 where is the fire located ? Of course . 16:49.849 --> 16:51.460 And because I , I am the one 16:51.460 --> 16:53.830 responsible to explain to the captain 16:53.840 --> 16:56.619 what happened . And after under his 16:56.630 --> 17:00.020 instruction , I go or I don't go to the 17:00.030 --> 17:03.739 hospital . Ok . But 17:04.079 --> 17:06.380 as per master list , this is my duty 17:06.390 --> 17:09.500 after under his instruction . I I do 17:09.510 --> 17:12.010 what he , what he tells me . Ok . 17:14.029 --> 17:16.140 And when you say he is that , is that 17:16.140 --> 17:18.307 the captain or the chief officer , the 17:18.307 --> 17:20.085 captain , captain ? Thank you . 17:23.390 --> 17:25.612 And during your three months on board , 17:25.612 --> 17:28.928 uh the Grande Costa de vio , how often 17:28.938 --> 17:30.558 were fire drills conducted ? 17:33.099 --> 17:36.500 Uh Very often we , we did a lot of them 17:36.530 --> 17:39.810 II , I lost count of them but a lot of 17:39.819 --> 17:43.630 them . Do you recall , 17:43.640 --> 17:46.459 how frequently was it ? Weekly , 17:46.469 --> 17:47.329 monthly ? 17:50.469 --> 17:53.400 It was weekly , weekly for fire drills . 17:53.410 --> 17:56.060 At least . Yes , at least uh weekly for , 17:56.069 --> 17:59.170 for the drills . I don't know if it was 17:59.180 --> 18:02.209 a fire drill , but it was a lot of them , 18:02.219 --> 18:05.050 especially fire and abandon were very 18:05.060 --> 18:06.060 often . 18:09.209 --> 18:12.750 And besides fire drills . Uh Was there 18:12.760 --> 18:15.030 any type of other fire training 18:15.250 --> 18:18.989 conducted on board ? Yes . Uh Can you 18:19.000 --> 18:21.819 describe that we 18:21.829 --> 18:25.479 have uh rescue from uh enclosed 18:25.489 --> 18:28.770 space in case of emergency ? Of course , 18:28.780 --> 18:32.280 we had also uh fighting uh 18:32.310 --> 18:34.630 fighting against pollution like the 18:34.640 --> 18:37.079 pollution that you uh 18:39.390 --> 18:42.739 I think that these are the the one I 18:42.750 --> 18:46.449 did . Ok . And then 18:46.660 --> 18:50.449 prior to July 5th , 2023 so the 18:50.459 --> 18:52.680 port call in Newark , New Jersey . Uh 18:52.699 --> 18:54.969 Do you recall when the last fire drill 18:54.979 --> 18:57.500 was on that you participated in on 18:57.510 --> 19:00.199 board the ship ? No . 19:01.400 --> 19:05.130 Ok . Uh Do you recall at all ? What it 19:05.140 --> 19:08.109 consisted of or what type of fire or 19:08.119 --> 19:11.979 where on the ship we had ? Uh as I 19:11.989 --> 19:15.459 said , a lot of fire drills and located 19:15.469 --> 19:18.089 uh in , in different parts of the 19:18.099 --> 19:20.979 vessel inside the garage , inside the 19:20.989 --> 19:24.939 accommodation in uh in the weather deck . 19:25.170 --> 19:27.640 So we had a lot of them in a different 19:27.650 --> 19:31.439 uh location , location and 19:31.449 --> 19:34.280 did any of those uh drills that you 19:34.290 --> 19:38.109 participated in . Uh we were they about 19:38.119 --> 19:39.709 a fire occurring in port 19:42.930 --> 19:45.709 it , uh , it was , uh , regarding the 19:45.719 --> 19:49.060 fire which can occur on a board , not 19:49.069 --> 19:51.829 necessarily in , uh , the port or , uh , 19:51.839 --> 19:54.869 in , uh , in the , in the sea . It was 19:54.880 --> 19:57.760 regarding fire on board . Ok . Uh , 19:57.770 --> 19:59.719 where they always , I'm sorry , go 19:59.729 --> 20:03.280 ahead . I don't remember if the scenery 20:03.290 --> 20:05.459 was for the port or for the sea , but 20:05.469 --> 20:07.969 it was regarding fire on board in any , 20:07.979 --> 20:11.630 any circumstances . And were , were 20:11.640 --> 20:14.930 they always conducted at sea or did you 20:14.939 --> 20:16.849 conduct ? Were , were fire drills 20:16.859 --> 20:20.439 conducted while you were in port ? To 20:20.449 --> 20:22.959 be honest , I don't remember if we had 20:22.969 --> 20:25.780 also in port . I'd see , I remember we 20:25.790 --> 20:27.846 had , but I don't remember about the 20:27.846 --> 20:30.369 port . I can't tell this because I 20:30.380 --> 20:34.290 don't remember . Ok , thank 20:34.300 --> 20:37.420 you . Um And then shifting 20:37.430 --> 20:40.640 specifically now to questions about 20:40.650 --> 20:44.349 July 5th , 2023 . Um When , 20:44.819 --> 20:48.300 when did you come and watch that day or 20:48.310 --> 20:51.869 come on duty ? You mean 20:51.880 --> 20:55.780 before the incident or ? Oh , I started 20:55.790 --> 20:58.540 my day . Uh How you started your day 20:58.550 --> 21:00.717 from , from the beginning of the day ? 21:00.717 --> 21:03.280 When did you come on duty ? Ok . So my 21:03.290 --> 21:05.709 duty is from eight o'clock to 12 21:05.719 --> 21:08.489 o'clock in the morning and of course , 21:08.500 --> 21:11.410 in the evening . So that time I came uh 21:11.420 --> 21:14.660 in the cargo control room around uh 21:14.800 --> 21:18.750 eight o'clock in the morning . Ok . 21:18.760 --> 21:20.599 And then , and starting at eight 21:20.609 --> 21:22.609 o'clock , then what , what was your 21:22.609 --> 21:26.510 tasking ? I remember at 21:26.520 --> 21:28.430 that point I stayed in the cargo 21:28.439 --> 21:31.989 control room and also I was uh 21:32.000 --> 21:35.839 somewhere . I don't remember which deck 21:35.849 --> 21:38.150 to , to supervise the the loading 21:38.160 --> 21:42.099 process . But most of the time I was in 21:42.109 --> 21:45.410 deck uh free near the CCR or inside the , 21:45.420 --> 21:47.476 in the inside the cargo control room 21:50.900 --> 21:53.270 and from the cargo control room . Are 21:53.280 --> 21:56.079 you able to observe uh physically 21:56.089 --> 21:58.619 observe any , any amount of the cargo 21:58.630 --> 22:02.160 operations taking place from the cargo 22:02.170 --> 22:04.599 control room ? You can have , you can 22:04.609 --> 22:08.209 observe only the , the cars which are 22:08.219 --> 22:10.400 loading , which are coming on board or 22:10.410 --> 22:13.050 which are leaving . It's the only thing 22:13.060 --> 22:15.849 we can , I can see from there regarding 22:15.859 --> 22:19.750 the cargo operation . Ok . Uh So if I'm 22:19.760 --> 22:21.927 understanding correctly from the cargo 22:21.927 --> 22:24.459 control room , you can see , can you 22:24.469 --> 22:26.525 see all vehicles coming on and off ? 22:26.800 --> 22:29.719 Yes . Yes . If you , if you uh if you 22:29.729 --> 22:31.729 are looking in the direction of the 22:31.729 --> 22:33.785 ramp , of course , yes , you can see 22:33.785 --> 22:36.270 which , which guys on we are climbing 22:36.280 --> 22:37.280 on board with . 22:40.050 --> 22:42.380 And does the cargo control room have 22:42.390 --> 22:44.530 any uh uh 22:46.650 --> 22:50.439 uh TV , cameras where you can see other 22:50.449 --> 22:52.430 areas of the ship ? No . 22:57.699 --> 23:00.209 And who if anyone were you working with 23:00.219 --> 23:01.663 in the car control room ? 23:03.439 --> 23:05.869 Sometimes it was there . The chief 23:05.880 --> 23:08.130 officer , sometimes I was alone . Of 23:08.140 --> 23:11.750 course , he was uh around the vessel . 23:12.290 --> 23:15.930 Ok . And during your watch 23:15.939 --> 23:19.930 from 0 800 to 1200 did you 23:19.939 --> 23:23.199 take any breaks ? No , 23:24.589 --> 23:27.170 I was uh there all the time in , in 23:27.180 --> 23:30.689 this area . I I already told you about . 23:34.050 --> 23:36.989 And were there any , uh , pauses or 23:37.000 --> 23:40.569 breaks in cargo operations during that 23:40.579 --> 23:43.189 time ? I don't remember . No . 23:48.270 --> 23:50.437 And during that time , what was your , 23:51.510 --> 23:55.390 uh , what was your communication 23:55.400 --> 23:58.040 with the shore side Stevedores and 23:58.050 --> 23:59.050 longshoremen 24:03.050 --> 24:06.910 in general ? They come to , to the , to 24:06.920 --> 24:09.989 the car cargo control room and if they 24:10.000 --> 24:13.619 need something , they ask me and , uh , 24:13.630 --> 24:15.609 I help them with what they are , 24:15.619 --> 24:18.209 depending . I don't remember if 24:18.219 --> 24:21.410 something like this uh happened uh uh 24:22.000 --> 24:25.900 that day , but I uh I'm telling like , 24:25.910 --> 24:28.349 uh what uh what I do in general or what 24:28.359 --> 24:30.470 is happening when this is the , the , 24:30.470 --> 24:32.692 the normal communication with the short 24:32.692 --> 24:36.280 side . And then 24:37.270 --> 24:39.214 I believe you mentioned uh at some 24:39.214 --> 24:41.326 point during that , that period , you 24:41.326 --> 24:45.000 went up to another deck uh where car 24:45.010 --> 24:47.160 operations were occurring . What is , 24:47.170 --> 24:50.319 what is your interaction with uh the 24:50.329 --> 24:53.260 shore side uh longshoreman ? At that 24:53.270 --> 24:56.349 point , we didn't have uh any 24:56.359 --> 25:00.229 interaction because uh I was there 25:00.239 --> 25:02.420 to see if the , the cargo operation is 25:02.430 --> 25:06.430 going uh smoothly and we didn't have 25:06.439 --> 25:09.540 any problem at that time . Ok . Uh That 25:09.550 --> 25:11.717 was gonna be my next question . What , 25:11.717 --> 25:13.883 what was your observation of how cargo 25:13.883 --> 25:15.994 operations were going that morning at 25:15.994 --> 25:19.270 that time ? I didn't uh saw anything 25:19.280 --> 25:22.719 suspicious or ? Ok . 25:25.530 --> 25:27.469 And compared to , 25:29.150 --> 25:31.359 compared to other ports that you've 25:31.369 --> 25:33.425 seen cargo operations on board , the 25:33.425 --> 25:36.250 Grande Casa de vio , uh were they being 25:36.260 --> 25:38.038 conducted in a similar nature ? 25:40.560 --> 25:43.900 With all the respect uh to everybody . 25:43.979 --> 25:47.459 But , uh , in my opinion , in this part 25:47.469 --> 25:50.180 of New York , it's me , it's a mess 25:50.869 --> 25:53.689 when , when we are talking about the , 25:54.839 --> 25:57.006 the loading process or the discharging 25:57.006 --> 26:00.339 process . And can , can you explain , 26:01.810 --> 26:05.000 uh , it's , uh , it's look like it 26:05.010 --> 26:08.270 looks like people , for example , uh , 26:08.280 --> 26:10.630 they don't , they don't want to listen , 26:10.640 --> 26:14.170 they do what they want more or less and , 26:14.180 --> 26:16.609 uh , if you try to , to tell , I mean 26:16.619 --> 26:19.130 to the ST or to the drivers , they 26:19.140 --> 26:22.810 don't listen . OK , to what you have to 26:22.819 --> 26:26.689 tell them . Uh 26:26.699 --> 26:29.689 can can you give an example of a 26:29.699 --> 26:31.921 direction you might have given that you 26:31.921 --> 26:35.579 felt like wasn't listened to . Uh 26:35.589 --> 26:38.420 for example , we have a cargo plan 26:38.430 --> 26:42.150 which is agreed by all the parties uh 26:42.160 --> 26:44.939 involved in , in the loading process . 26:45.400 --> 26:48.280 And for example , uh if you want them 26:48.290 --> 26:51.420 to , to put the car as per the , the 26:51.430 --> 26:55.219 cargo car cargo plant and you go to , 26:55.229 --> 26:57.396 to the driver and tell him put it more 26:57.396 --> 26:59.959 closely or leave the , the , the yellow 26:59.969 --> 27:03.339 line , uh you know , empty free . 27:03.900 --> 27:06.122 Sometimes they don't listen , sometimes 27:06.122 --> 27:08.500 they become angry sometimes uh they 27:08.510 --> 27:10.343 listen , depends on the , on the 27:10.343 --> 27:13.739 persons . Yeah , I I'm going to object . 27:13.750 --> 27:16.760 Is this general testimony ? Is this the 27:16.770 --> 27:19.819 day of very unclear to me ? And my 27:19.829 --> 27:22.160 belief is he served on one row row 27:22.170 --> 27:25.319 vessel . Uh I think it's , it's very 27:25.329 --> 27:27.218 unclear and I think it's unfair . 27:29.989 --> 27:32.449 Can I or ? Yeah , I , I mean , I , I 27:32.459 --> 27:34.626 think that if , if we're clarifying it 27:34.626 --> 27:36.790 for those purposes , please proceed 27:36.800 --> 27:38.911 commander in , in getting the details 27:38.911 --> 27:41.189 as far as the relevancy to this vessel . 27:42.000 --> 27:44.459 Ok . And , and yeah , Mister uh Jamal , 27:44.469 --> 27:47.030 are you , are you describing what you 27:47.040 --> 27:49.750 observed uh in particular on July 5th 27:49.760 --> 27:53.670 2023 ? No , I'm uh talking about 27:53.680 --> 27:57.650 the port of uh New York in general . 27:57.660 --> 27:59.949 What happened because I've been in this 27:59.959 --> 28:03.500 port also before uh uh fifth of July . 28:03.699 --> 28:07.099 And you asked me , how is the situation 28:07.109 --> 28:10.650 with the , with the short side ? Ok . 28:10.660 --> 28:14.109 Um How , how many times have you , 28:15.800 --> 28:17.967 how many times on , on the ship , have 28:17.967 --> 28:19.800 you visited the port of Newark ? 28:20.849 --> 28:24.800 Including the , the fifth of July ? 28:25.040 --> 28:27.239 I think it was the third time . 28:28.770 --> 28:31.579 I'm I'm sorry , third time , the third 28:31.589 --> 28:34.540 time . Yes , including the , the , the 28:34.550 --> 28:38.369 day of the accident . Ok . And so on , 28:38.719 --> 28:41.040 on the day of the accident , July 5th 28:41.050 --> 28:43.280 2023 . Uh 28:46.140 --> 28:50.089 Did you experience any issues 28:50.099 --> 28:54.069 with uh cargo operations 28:54.079 --> 28:55.635 that you were involved in ? 28:58.459 --> 29:01.479 No , until the , if I , I can't 29:01.489 --> 29:04.000 remember exactly . That's why I said in 29:04.010 --> 29:06.729 general because you asked me about port 29:06.739 --> 29:10.349 of New York . Uh And that's why I said 29:10.359 --> 29:13.359 from my opinion , this is uh this is my 29:13.369 --> 29:15.439 answer in general . I don't know if 29:15.449 --> 29:19.010 happened in the day of the accident or 29:19.020 --> 29:22.030 before , but in uh in , in this port 29:22.040 --> 29:24.359 was uh the communication with the 29:24.369 --> 29:27.780 drivers and sometimes it's uh like this . 29:28.599 --> 29:31.199 Ok . And that is , 29:32.390 --> 29:35.689 uh in , in your three months on board 29:35.699 --> 29:37.930 the ship and your observation of cargo 29:37.939 --> 29:40.930 operations , uh , was the , 29:41.979 --> 29:44.359 the manner in which they loaded 29:44.369 --> 29:47.040 vehicles , uh , the same as other ports . 29:48.170 --> 29:50.770 Uh And I'm speaking to the comparison 29:50.780 --> 29:54.510 of July 5th , 2023 how the vehicles 29:54.520 --> 29:56.760 were being loaded that day compared to 29:56.989 --> 29:58.150 other port calls 30:01.939 --> 30:05.910 in that day . I remember that uh 30:05.920 --> 30:09.599 they were forcing their cars and uh 30:11.449 --> 30:15.439 but to be honest , uh I can 30:15.449 --> 30:18.910 compare the wha what I am feeling what 30:18.920 --> 30:20.976 I was feeling when I was in New York 30:20.976 --> 30:23.979 with other ports . I , in my opinion , 30:24.160 --> 30:27.339 this was the hardest uh port for the , 30:27.349 --> 30:30.229 for the cargo operation . This is what 30:30.239 --> 30:33.199 I uh felt every time I came in uh in a , 30:33.209 --> 30:35.209 in a , in the port in New York . 30:36.890 --> 30:39.719 And we understand from uh previous 30:39.729 --> 30:43.670 testimony that uh vehicles that weren't 30:43.680 --> 30:47.369 able to drive themselves or be 30:47.380 --> 30:49.602 driven onto the ship , um , were , were 30:49.602 --> 30:51.491 pushed on board with , with other 30:51.491 --> 30:53.969 vehicles . Uh Have you seen that occur 30:53.979 --> 30:57.719 in other ports ? No , with other cars ? 30:57.729 --> 31:01.479 No , they were using the 31:01.489 --> 31:05.130 uh they were using our Bobcats . Ok . 31:13.969 --> 31:17.189 And did you observe uh from , from the 31:17.199 --> 31:20.160 car control room ? Uh or when you were 31:20.170 --> 31:22.550 up on one of the decks , did , did you 31:22.560 --> 31:24.727 physically observe uh , vehicles being 31:24.727 --> 31:27.910 pushed on board uh the vessel ? 31:29.150 --> 31:32.930 Yes . Huh . And from what you 31:32.939 --> 31:36.829 remember of July 5th 2023 . Uh What 31:36.839 --> 31:39.349 types of vehicles were being used to 31:39.359 --> 31:41.170 push others on board ? 31:44.010 --> 31:46.729 As I remember there was one Jeep 31:47.150 --> 31:49.709 involved one car from the , from the 31:49.719 --> 31:53.280 brand Jeep . And uh 31:54.209 --> 31:56.520 I don't know if they are called tracks , 31:56.530 --> 31:59.290 this one , this long one they , they 31:59.300 --> 32:01.467 were using and except for these tracks 32:01.467 --> 32:04.390 they use this uh SUV from the , from 32:04.400 --> 32:06.939 the brain chip . Ok . 32:09.359 --> 32:11.900 And can you describe what you remember 32:11.910 --> 32:15.869 of the Jeep ? Yes . 32:15.880 --> 32:18.510 In uh my watch in the morning time 32:18.520 --> 32:22.170 somewhere between eight and 12 , there 32:22.180 --> 32:25.569 was one particular thing uh I was in 32:25.579 --> 32:28.550 deck free near the ramp . Yeah , near 32:28.560 --> 32:30.699 the access to the , to , to , to the 32:30.709 --> 32:33.229 inside of the vessel . And there was 32:33.239 --> 32:37.180 11 Jeep uh pushing 32:37.189 --> 32:41.010 11 of the cargo and at some 32:41.020 --> 32:43.298 point it stopped somewhere between the , 32:43.298 --> 32:45.520 the , the main ramp . Yeah , from uh uh 32:45.729 --> 32:47.840 there in the tree in the after part . 32:48.069 --> 32:51.229 And I saw some uh white smoke going out 32:51.239 --> 32:54.890 from the car . And 32:56.619 --> 32:59.400 do you remember the color of the Jeep ? 33:00.640 --> 33:02.918 I don't remember the color of the ship . 33:02.918 --> 33:06.089 I know that only it was not uh a dark 33:06.099 --> 33:09.310 color , it was like a color but I don't 33:09.319 --> 33:12.219 know uh the , the , the exact uh the 33:12.229 --> 33:16.150 exact uh color . And when you s 33:16.229 --> 33:18.479 when you say white smoke coming from 33:18.489 --> 33:20.810 the Jeep , can you describe where that 33:20.819 --> 33:24.040 was coming from ? It was coming from 33:24.050 --> 33:27.530 the , as I can uh 33:28.750 --> 33:31.050 imagine somewhere where the , the 33:31.060 --> 33:33.130 batteries or the , the engine of the 33:33.140 --> 33:36.410 car uh was located some somewhere from 33:36.430 --> 33:38.652 the , from the front , front of the car 33:38.652 --> 33:41.290 but from the , from the inside . Ok . 33:41.890 --> 33:44.057 Uh Lieutenant Reid , can we bring up , 33:44.057 --> 33:47.900 uh Coast Guard exhibit three ? Uh page 33:47.910 --> 33:48.209 one 34:06.349 --> 34:08.516 and Mr Camal , are you able to see the 34:08.516 --> 34:10.729 image on the screen ? Yes , it's of a 34:10.739 --> 34:13.929 car of a , of a yellow Jeep ? 34:14.409 --> 34:17.929 Ok . And does this stock picture ? 34:17.939 --> 34:20.370 Um it's just a generic picture of a a 34:20.379 --> 34:22.810 Jeep . Uh Does it look similar to the 34:22.820 --> 34:25.929 vehicle you're talking about ? Yes . Uh 34:25.939 --> 34:29.299 the shape it's uh it's similar . Ok . 34:30.059 --> 34:33.529 Um How , how is this picture different 34:33.539 --> 34:35.769 from the vehicle that you remember see 34:36.138 --> 34:37.582 seeing used on the ship ? 34:40.388 --> 34:43.749 First of all , for me , the the the car 34:43.759 --> 34:46.309 in the photo , it's , it looks like a 34:46.319 --> 34:49.049 new car . This uh one which I am 34:49.059 --> 34:52.198 talking about for sure was already used . 34:53.080 --> 34:56.830 Uh was looking , let's say similar to 34:56.840 --> 35:00.209 the to the pushed cars not to I mean , 35:00.219 --> 35:02.275 it was , let's say not in the in the 35:02.275 --> 35:04.860 best condition the car , it was not new . 35:06.790 --> 35:08.901 And as for the color , as I said , it 35:08.901 --> 35:11.370 was a light color , it was uh it , it 35:11.379 --> 35:13.360 was not a dark color , but I don't 35:13.370 --> 35:17.350 remember now which color . OK . And 35:17.360 --> 35:20.659 then uh using this picture uh as as 35:20.669 --> 35:23.270 reference when you say you saw white 35:23.280 --> 35:26.040 smoke . Um a again , could you tell us 35:26.050 --> 35:28.272 in reference to this picture where that 35:28.272 --> 35:31.260 was coming from . It was like the , 35:31.270 --> 35:33.399 like the photo we have here with the 35:33.409 --> 35:36.860 left side . Yeah . So , 35:37.750 --> 35:41.110 ok , so here is , uh , it's 35:41.120 --> 35:44.439 somewhere in the front part but in the 35:44.449 --> 35:46.840 left , in the left side but , uh , 35:46.850 --> 35:49.760 somewhere I say it's located where the 35:49.770 --> 35:52.439 engine or the , or the batteries , I 35:52.449 --> 35:54.840 don't know exactly because I am not 35:54.850 --> 35:58.550 engineer but to the , to the left part 35:58.560 --> 36:02.419 of the car . Ok . Uh And so I , 36:02.429 --> 36:04.373 I believe , uh , Lieutenant Reid's 36:04.373 --> 36:07.780 cursor is on the right side of the car . 36:07.790 --> 36:10.929 Yes . Yeah . Uh , now , somewhere where 36:10.939 --> 36:13.050 it was the , the smoke was coming 36:13.060 --> 36:16.939 outside . Ok . So the area 36:17.550 --> 36:19.830 and when you observed the smoke , uh , 36:19.840 --> 36:22.173 what was the case ? I , I'm , I'm sorry , 36:22.173 --> 36:24.340 I , I'm very confused because you said 36:24.340 --> 36:26.451 the right side and the cursor is on , 36:26.451 --> 36:29.790 it's on the left side of the car . Yes , 36:29.800 --> 36:32.133 I'm , I'm , I'm sorry . Uh , it was the , 36:32.133 --> 36:34.356 the cursor was on the right side at the 36:34.356 --> 36:36.522 time . I was trying to orient myself . 36:36.522 --> 36:38.467 Uh , so for , for the record , the 36:38.467 --> 36:41.699 cursor uh , is currently on the left 36:41.709 --> 36:45.459 side of the vehicle in the line diagram 36:45.469 --> 36:47.580 that is looking down from the top of 36:47.590 --> 36:49.909 the vehicle , uh , around the front 36:49.919 --> 36:53.389 hood . Um , it would also be the , 36:53.810 --> 36:57.429 what would be the , uh , driver side of 36:57.439 --> 36:59.820 the vehicle . Yeah , that's correct . 36:59.830 --> 37:03.580 The driver's side . Um , and also 37:03.590 --> 37:05.646 just for our future , if there's any 37:05.646 --> 37:07.312 requests for clarification or 37:07.312 --> 37:09.423 objections . Please identify yourself 37:09.423 --> 37:12.120 for the transcript . My apologies . 37:12.129 --> 37:14.540 That was uh , Gino Zetti . Thank you . 37:18.379 --> 37:21.379 And that at , at the time on July 5th , 37:21.389 --> 37:25.239 2023 when you observed some white 37:25.250 --> 37:28.669 smoke , uh , what was the vehicle doing 37:28.679 --> 37:32.080 at the time the vehicle was 37:32.310 --> 37:34.540 pushing another vehicle 37:36.189 --> 37:39.250 and , uh , at some point because I 37:39.260 --> 37:42.409 didn't , uh , pay attention why he , 37:42.419 --> 37:44.959 why he stopped , I saw he was stopped 37:44.969 --> 37:48.620 and after I saw the smoke , uh so there 37:48.629 --> 37:52.239 were uh two person , the driver and uh 37:52.270 --> 37:55.850 11 another , it was uh 37:56.699 --> 38:00.479 an Afro American . Uh she was the 38:00.489 --> 38:02.870 guy which , which gives the , the 38:02.879 --> 38:05.101 direction to the , to the drivers where 38:05.101 --> 38:09.030 to , to bring the , the cargo . Uh I 38:09.040 --> 38:11.530 think it was the tally man . But as I 38:11.540 --> 38:14.479 said , uh it , it was the , the guy 38:14.489 --> 38:17.379 which uh give uh uh gave the direction 38:17.389 --> 38:20.000 to all the drivers . I saw this guy all 38:20.010 --> 38:22.709 the morning and after that , they 38:22.719 --> 38:26.429 called the from the upper deck . I 38:26.439 --> 38:29.350 don't know from where another uh man , 38:29.409 --> 38:31.870 it was a tall man and slim one . I 38:31.879 --> 38:34.046 don't know his name . I don't know his 38:34.046 --> 38:37.939 rank . I know that I saw him that day 38:38.360 --> 38:42.179 and uh in total after they were uh 38:42.189 --> 38:44.899 they were uh three persons down near 38:44.909 --> 38:48.330 the car and I , I did not understand 38:48.340 --> 38:50.550 part of his testimony when he was 38:50.560 --> 38:52.782 describing this gentleman . I'm sorry . 38:54.760 --> 38:58.639 Yes . Let , let me uh get , get uh Mr 38:58.729 --> 39:01.062 Long , please give me an opportunity to , 39:01.062 --> 39:03.173 to ask , uh I will ask that follow up 39:03.173 --> 39:06.540 uh clarification . Um So Mr Chuma , uh 39:06.550 --> 39:08.850 when you describe the first person , 39:09.570 --> 39:13.409 was that , was that person uh 39:14.560 --> 39:18.179 in one of the vehicles uh giving 39:18.189 --> 39:21.580 direction or was that person on the on 39:21.590 --> 39:25.010 deck three , giving direction ? He was 39:25.020 --> 39:27.659 on deck free giving the election all 39:27.669 --> 39:30.550 the morning . That's why I assume he 39:30.560 --> 39:32.504 was the tally man . He was the one 39:32.504 --> 39:35.179 counting the cars , checking , uh , 39:37.189 --> 39:39.370 the number of the car and the where 39:39.379 --> 39:42.020 they should load the car . He was the 39:42.030 --> 39:44.030 one giving direction , but from the 39:44.090 --> 39:46.219 three giving direction to the drivers 39:46.229 --> 39:49.189 where to go . Ok . And , and you said 39:49.199 --> 39:52.639 Tally man ? Yes , I'm 39:52.649 --> 39:56.159 thinking of the tale man . Ok . I don't 39:56.169 --> 39:58.709 know his uh his run because I never 39:58.719 --> 40:02.020 spoke with this man . Not even after 40:02.030 --> 40:05.810 this . I , I never spoke with him . Ok . 40:06.399 --> 40:08.510 Um , do , do you remember what he was 40:08.510 --> 40:09.510 wearing ? 40:12.060 --> 40:15.550 He was dressed in some dark 40:15.560 --> 40:19.159 clothes only and he had some kind 40:19.169 --> 40:22.979 of uh symbol on the chest , but I 40:22.989 --> 40:25.530 don't know what was written of her and 40:26.459 --> 40:30.260 that's all I remember . Ok . And , 40:30.810 --> 40:34.459 and the uh , to clarify , did the 40:34.469 --> 40:36.510 vehicle , did the jeep that you're 40:36.520 --> 40:39.850 talking about ? Stop near him ? 40:41.689 --> 40:43.800 Yes , somewhere in front of him . And 40:43.800 --> 40:46.350 after he came close to the driver , the , 40:46.360 --> 40:48.889 the driver of course , went outside to 40:48.899 --> 40:51.330 check what uh what happened with uh 40:51.340 --> 40:53.379 this vehicle and they were talking 40:53.389 --> 40:57.189 together and , uh , checking , uh , 40:57.449 --> 41:01.120 under the , under the hood to 41:01.129 --> 41:03.489 see , uh , to see what is there , what , 41:03.500 --> 41:06.340 uh , for the source of this , uh , 41:06.350 --> 41:09.820 smoke and in the , in the , in the same 41:09.830 --> 41:13.629 time , uh , another , uh , tall and 41:13.639 --> 41:16.000 slim , uh , guy came from the upper 41:16.010 --> 41:19.449 deck . Ok . And what was your 41:19.459 --> 41:21.737 understanding of the tall and slim guy ? 41:24.669 --> 41:28.110 Well , let's say she was around , uh , 41:28.120 --> 41:31.929 1 1 m and 90 centimeters 41:31.939 --> 41:34.310 because he was taller than me . And I 41:34.320 --> 41:37.830 am uh , 185 . So he was taller than me . 41:38.679 --> 41:42.449 And , uh , it was uh slim , it was 41:42.459 --> 41:45.919 slimmer . Ok . I 41:46.439 --> 41:49.340 like this . And 41:51.120 --> 41:54.219 do you know what his position was ? 41:55.250 --> 41:58.469 No , I saw him several times in that 41:58.479 --> 42:01.550 morning but we never , uh , interact . 42:02.449 --> 42:05.719 Ok . Um , can you describe what he was 42:05.729 --> 42:08.540 wearing , uh , 42:08.550 --> 42:12.360 on his uh head ? He had one white 42:12.370 --> 42:15.310 Hamlet , the Safety Hamlet 42:15.939 --> 42:19.899 and , uh , I don't remember , uh , 42:19.909 --> 42:23.379 the , the other , uh , part of the , of , 42:23.389 --> 42:25.879 of his uh clothes . I remember he had 42:25.889 --> 42:29.219 some uh , vest , some , uh , 42:29.229 --> 42:31.979 the , the one , how do you call this 42:31.989 --> 42:34.679 one ? The , the , the , the one which 42:34.689 --> 42:37.209 reflects the , the , like the , the 42:37.219 --> 42:39.709 green one or orange one . I don't 42:39.719 --> 42:42.800 remember now exactly its color . Ok . 42:43.000 --> 42:46.020 And both , both of those individuals 42:46.030 --> 42:49.679 were from , uh , the shore side crew . 42:49.739 --> 42:52.219 Yes . Yes . For , uh , from the , from 42:52.229 --> 42:54.820 the short side crew . And then what did 42:54.830 --> 42:58.340 the tall and slim guy do ? 42:59.820 --> 43:03.620 He came uh down the ramp , uh she stop 43:03.689 --> 43:06.760 near the car near the driver and the , 43:06.959 --> 43:09.729 the other guy and they talked uh 43:09.739 --> 43:12.449 between each other regarding why the 43:12.459 --> 43:15.080 smoke is fair or the possible , 43:16.790 --> 43:20.419 the possibilities of uh of what caused 43:20.429 --> 43:23.090 this , uh this white smoke , I suppose 43:23.100 --> 43:25.211 because they were looking at the , at 43:25.211 --> 43:28.600 the car . Ok . And 43:29.449 --> 43:31.510 to confirm , where were you when you 43:31.520 --> 43:35.090 were observing this ? Yes , I was near 43:35.100 --> 43:37.300 the , the ramp , the entrance to the 43:37.310 --> 43:40.709 vessel and the car was in front of me . 43:41.570 --> 43:43.830 Ok . So you were not , you were not in 43:43.840 --> 43:46.379 the con cargo control room but on deck 43:46.389 --> 43:50.070 three . Yes , that's correct . Ok . 43:50.399 --> 43:53.780 Uh Did , did you have any interaction 43:55.070 --> 43:57.330 with the shore side crew members uh at 43:57.340 --> 44:00.739 this time ? No . Ok . 44:02.159 --> 44:05.739 Uh And and then what happened with the 44:05.750 --> 44:09.649 vehicle ? I remember I was there 44:09.780 --> 44:12.469 to keep for to , to be in place of the 44:12.479 --> 44:15.199 A B because he had some job to do . I 44:15.209 --> 44:17.320 don't remember now what kind of job . 44:17.320 --> 44:19.389 So I have to stay there in case 44:19.399 --> 44:23.199 somebody comes on board . And uh after 44:23.209 --> 44:26.540 that , I remember they did it and there 44:26.649 --> 44:30.409 and I went there and after some time I 44:30.419 --> 44:32.790 saw the car working again without any 44:32.800 --> 44:36.020 problems or the , the the problems I 44:36.030 --> 44:38.449 mentioned before , it was not there 44:38.459 --> 44:42.100 anymore . Ok . And at the immediate 44:42.110 --> 44:45.639 time on July 5th , when you saw the , 44:45.729 --> 44:48.530 the smoke come from the vehicle and 44:48.540 --> 44:51.260 then those three individuals uh 44:51.270 --> 44:54.830 checking it out ? Do you remember ? Did 44:55.280 --> 44:59.280 the vehicle uh continue 44:59.290 --> 45:01.560 then to push the car onto the ship ? 45:01.570 --> 45:04.129 Did the vehicle exit the ship ? Do you 45:04.139 --> 45:06.361 remember what , what they did with it ? 45:07.179 --> 45:09.550 No , I don't remember what happened 45:09.560 --> 45:13.399 after that because I told you , I uh I 45:13.409 --> 45:16.060 kept the place for the , for the A B 45:16.070 --> 45:18.629 and after I had my job to check the , 45:18.639 --> 45:22.379 to check in the CCR , the healing . And 45:22.389 --> 45:25.770 I just remember in the same uh watch , 45:25.780 --> 45:28.850 I saw the car working again . I don't 45:28.860 --> 45:32.300 know how much time passed after uh 45:32.719 --> 45:35.719 the incident , but uh I saw the car in 45:35.729 --> 45:39.379 the same watch working again . Ok . And 45:39.389 --> 45:41.445 then when you saw it working again , 45:42.159 --> 45:44.103 did you observe any issues with it 45:45.510 --> 45:49.239 after that time ? Uh No , no 45:49.250 --> 45:51.361 smoke was coming outside , that's for 45:51.361 --> 45:54.560 sure . That's why uh I didn't pay 45:54.570 --> 45:56.737 attention to , to that car anymore . I 45:56.737 --> 46:00.320 saw it's working . It's uh it's uh 46:00.330 --> 46:03.510 not uh getting outside anymore uh of 46:03.520 --> 46:04.964 the , of the smoke . So , 46:07.209 --> 46:10.219 ok . And during your 46:11.030 --> 46:14.409 uh 8 to 12 watch , 46:14.879 --> 46:18.270 um ok . 46:18.989 --> 46:20.989 Did you see that same vehicle being 46:20.989 --> 46:24.360 used frequently ? Can you repeat , 46:24.370 --> 46:27.090 please do during your , your four hour 46:27.100 --> 46:29.322 watch from 8 to 12 . Did you see that , 46:29.322 --> 46:31.689 that same vehicle being used frequently ? 46:32.709 --> 46:36.520 Yes . And how , 46:36.530 --> 46:38.363 how are you sure it was the same 46:38.363 --> 46:42.360 vehicle because 46:42.370 --> 46:46.050 I saw it in that day , only one car 46:46.060 --> 46:49.120 from the brand uh Jeep . That's what uh 46:49.219 --> 46:52.129 why I say it's the same . Ok . 46:56.020 --> 46:59.600 And then at 12 46:59.610 --> 47:03.040 o'clock , 1200 what did you do then 47:04.330 --> 47:06.560 at , uh , 12 o'clock I finished my 47:06.570 --> 47:10.040 watch and , uh , after that I have my , 47:10.050 --> 47:13.709 uh , lunch break and after the lunch 47:13.719 --> 47:16.850 break I don't remember , uh , exactly 47:16.860 --> 47:19.729 what I , uh , what I have done . Ok . 47:20.159 --> 47:22.270 Uh , but you were , you were off duty 47:22.270 --> 47:25.010 or off watch . Um , and then when did 47:25.020 --> 47:27.689 you come back on duty or back on watch ? 47:28.139 --> 47:31.090 I came back on watch in the , in the 47:31.100 --> 47:33.899 evening time . Ok . And , and what I , 47:34.560 --> 47:38.379 before , uh , 20 100 before 20 100 I 47:38.389 --> 47:40.611 don't know exactly because my , uh , my 47:40.611 --> 47:44.370 watch starts 2020 100 . So 47:44.379 --> 47:47.040 before 20 100 . And , 47:48.199 --> 47:51.209 uh , where did you stand watch at 20 47:51.219 --> 47:54.840 100 ? Uh , I was 47:54.850 --> 47:57.489 only in deck three and in the cargo 47:57.500 --> 47:59.590 control room which is located , of 47:59.600 --> 48:01.711 course in deck three , but in only in 48:01.711 --> 48:04.429 this area in the aft part and in the 48:04.439 --> 48:08.169 cargo control room . Ok . And then who 48:08.179 --> 48:10.949 if anyone at 20 100 were you working 48:10.959 --> 48:14.929 with ? Uh , 48:14.939 --> 48:18.870 I don't remember their names . Now , uh , 48:19.229 --> 48:22.590 one of the person which was still there 48:22.600 --> 48:26.090 was the chief mate , uh , the A B on 48:26.100 --> 48:28.639 duty and the , the Boston 48:30.290 --> 48:34.290 and some other , uh , Oes or A 48:34.300 --> 48:37.580 BS . And , uh , also the driver , our 48:37.590 --> 48:41.060 driver , uh , was still , uh , on deck 48:41.070 --> 48:45.060 working . Ok . And , and then were you 48:45.070 --> 48:47.899 were , was your tasking , uh , at , at 48:47.909 --> 48:50.389 20 100 ? The same as what you had been 48:50.399 --> 48:53.889 doing in the morning . Yes , that's 48:53.899 --> 48:57.540 right because the , the second mate 48:57.550 --> 49:01.010 which , uh , finished his , uh , watch , 49:01.020 --> 49:04.129 uh , at 20 100 told me that , uh , we 49:04.139 --> 49:06.580 are almost , uh , we , we are almost 49:06.590 --> 49:08.757 finished with the loading operations . 49:09.870 --> 49:10.870 Ok . 49:13.639 --> 49:16.820 And what was your observation of cargo 49:16.830 --> 49:19.820 operations ? Uh , take , taking place 49:19.830 --> 49:22.330 then while you were on watch , uh , in 49:22.340 --> 49:26.219 the evening , uh , 49:26.229 --> 49:30.219 I saw the guys bringing up the cars . I , 49:30.229 --> 49:34.169 uh , and uh nothing 49:34.179 --> 49:37.889 else in particular . Uh 49:37.899 --> 49:41.270 Did , did you see that same Jeep 49:41.280 --> 49:42.750 vehicle being used 49:45.290 --> 49:47.750 at some point in the evening time ? Yes , 49:47.760 --> 49:50.729 I saw , I saw the , the , the Jeep 49:50.739 --> 49:52.850 which I saw in the morning , uh being 49:52.850 --> 49:56.010 used . Yes . Ok . And in the evening on 49:56.020 --> 49:59.419 July 5th , did you observe any issues 49:59.429 --> 50:02.739 with that vehicle ? I don't , uh I 50:02.750 --> 50:05.760 don't remember now if they have , uh 50:05.770 --> 50:08.989 they had any problems with the car in 50:09.000 --> 50:10.000 the evening . 50:14.040 --> 50:15.040 Ok . 50:18.360 --> 50:19.959 Ok . Um , 50:23.340 --> 50:26.850 and then when the fire occurred on 50:26.860 --> 50:29.138 board the vessel , we were you on duty ? 50:29.739 --> 50:33.399 Yes . Ok . And uh where were you 50:33.409 --> 50:37.370 located at that time ? I don't remember 50:37.379 --> 50:40.830 exactly uh the place I know that 50:40.840 --> 50:44.000 for uh for the entire evening , I was 50:44.010 --> 50:47.229 uh between the CCR and the , the aft 50:47.239 --> 50:50.429 part of uh the , of the vessel . 50:51.520 --> 50:54.580 And I remember when I uh learned about 50:54.590 --> 50:57.899 the , the , the fire , I was outside of 50:57.909 --> 51:00.669 the , the , the cargo control room in 51:00.679 --> 51:02.846 the aft part somewhere in the aft part 51:02.846 --> 51:05.689 of the vessel in the in deck in de free , 51:05.699 --> 51:08.790 of course , but I don't know exactly 51:08.800 --> 51:12.370 which , which place . Ok . 51:13.659 --> 51:15.929 Um Lieutenant Reid , if we can , uh 51:15.939 --> 51:18.850 please put up Coast Guard exhibit two . 51:18.959 --> 51:22.159 Mr CMA , this will be a video that uh 51:22.479 --> 51:24.909 Lieutenant Reid will play uh from a 51:24.919 --> 51:28.520 security camera . Um I I'll let the 51:28.530 --> 51:30.752 video play first for you to observe and 51:30.752 --> 51:32.363 then uh ask you a question , 51:39.010 --> 51:41.177 Mr Jal . Are you able to see the image 51:41.177 --> 51:43.149 on the screen ? Yes , yes , yes . 52:08.149 --> 52:11.530 And Mr Talla does is what is depicted 52:11.540 --> 52:13.790 in this video ? Look familiar to you . 52:17.280 --> 52:20.010 You mean uh the car which was pushing 52:20.020 --> 52:23.399 this , the car as I can see it's uh the 52:23.409 --> 52:26.979 the car uh of the of the brain 52:26.989 --> 52:30.580 jeep . But I was not uh I don't 52:30.590 --> 52:32.899 remember to see when they were pushing 52:32.909 --> 52:36.639 this uh at this uh at 52:36.649 --> 52:39.939 this moment at 8:58 p.m. 52:40.750 --> 52:43.290 OK . I , I don't remember to see it 52:43.300 --> 52:45.709 come on board at this time around this 52:45.719 --> 52:48.850 time . OK . And that 52:49.429 --> 52:53.020 if , if this video uh was taken by the 52:53.030 --> 52:56.040 time stamp on the video of 8:58 p.m. 52:58.709 --> 53:00.820 on July 5th , where , where would you 53:00.820 --> 53:03.149 have been located uh in this image ? 53:05.030 --> 53:07.959 So as I said , I don't know for sure , 53:07.969 --> 53:11.129 I can't say for sure . I know only that 53:11.139 --> 53:13.550 I never left this uh this area which I 53:13.560 --> 53:16.780 told you before . I even I was in uh 53:16.790 --> 53:19.340 somewhere here in the after part where 53:19.350 --> 53:23.159 is the car now somewhere or I was in 53:23.169 --> 53:26.580 the , in the cargo control room ? Ok . 53:27.169 --> 53:30.989 And either of those locations in 53:31.000 --> 53:34.270 this video , uh would those have been 53:34.280 --> 53:36.760 just inside of where that ramp , where 53:36.770 --> 53:39.860 the vehicle goes up the ramp ? Sorry , 53:39.870 --> 53:42.037 can you , can you repeat , please ? Uh 53:42.037 --> 53:44.037 So you , you say either you were on 53:44.037 --> 53:46.259 deck three or in the car control room ? 53:46.259 --> 53:48.330 Uh Would both of those locations 53:48.810 --> 53:52.739 looking at this image be inside 53:52.750 --> 53:56.010 the ship at the top of the ramp ? Yes , 53:56.020 --> 53:58.669 it's in uh it's uh inside of uh the 53:58.679 --> 54:01.510 ship . Uh but the cargo control room 54:01.520 --> 54:03.649 you can see from here because it's in 54:03.659 --> 54:07.479 the right side and here we can see only 54:07.689 --> 54:09.911 a part of the left side of the vessel . 54:10.820 --> 54:12.931 Ok . All right . Uh Lieutenant Reid , 54:12.931 --> 54:14.959 you can take down the , the exhibit 54:17.260 --> 54:21.020 and Mr Jamal , if I uh 54:21.030 --> 54:23.929 recall what you said earlier correctly 54:24.070 --> 54:27.820 from where you stood watch , uh to 54:27.830 --> 54:30.409 include , then , uh when you were on 54:30.419 --> 54:33.320 watch at , at 20 100 you were able to 54:33.330 --> 54:35.497 see all vehicles coming on and off the 54:35.497 --> 54:37.969 ship . Is that correct ? If you , if 54:37.979 --> 54:39.850 you are looking at only in that 54:39.860 --> 54:42.082 direction , yes , you can see them . If 54:42.082 --> 54:44.304 you are doing , for example , something 54:44.304 --> 54:46.416 else , you have some documents or you 54:46.416 --> 54:48.638 have to check the healing and you don't 54:48.638 --> 54:50.360 pay attention to , to , to the 54:50.360 --> 54:52.471 direction . Of course , you , you can 54:52.471 --> 54:54.649 see it . Ok . And can , can you also 54:54.659 --> 54:57.929 hear what is going on , uh , out on , 54:57.939 --> 55:00.161 if you're in the car control room , can 55:00.161 --> 55:02.383 you also hear what is going on out on , 55:02.383 --> 55:04.439 on deck three where the vehicles are 55:04.439 --> 55:08.179 coming in ? Uh , by hearing 55:08.189 --> 55:10.939 what are you referring to ? You can 55:10.949 --> 55:13.469 hear , you can hear the fans , the 55:13.479 --> 55:15.840 ventilation . Of course , you can hear 55:15.850 --> 55:18.449 the , the horn of the car . If they are 55:18.459 --> 55:21.850 using it , you , you can hear , uh , if 55:21.860 --> 55:24.750 the engines of the car . But if , uh , 55:24.760 --> 55:27.229 somebody talks to you from the ramp and 55:27.239 --> 55:29.830 you are inside of the cargo control 55:29.840 --> 55:33.409 room , you can't , uh , hear . Ok . And 55:33.419 --> 55:37.409 just prior to , uh , when you became 55:37.419 --> 55:40.179 aware of the fire , um , did you 55:40.189 --> 55:43.909 observe any concerns or 55:43.919 --> 55:47.100 issues with any of the vehicles coming 55:47.110 --> 55:49.620 onto the ship immediately before that ? 55:50.510 --> 55:51.010 No . 55:56.239 --> 55:58.350 And then how did , how did you become 55:58.350 --> 56:00.860 aware , uh , of the fire 56:03.090 --> 56:05.669 at some point ? I remember I was not in 56:05.679 --> 56:09.590 the cargo control room for sure . I was 56:09.600 --> 56:12.330 somewhere near the ramp and by radio , 56:12.340 --> 56:14.370 I heard the chief officer , 56:16.699 --> 56:19.379 he was , uh , calling me and , uh , 56:19.389 --> 56:22.030 that's when , uh , I find out that we 56:22.040 --> 56:25.760 have a fire , uh , fire on board . Ok . 56:26.590 --> 56:28.701 And , uh , you said the chief officer 56:28.709 --> 56:30.765 was calling you , what , what was he 56:30.765 --> 56:33.389 calling you to do ? He called me by the 56:33.399 --> 56:35.288 radio . Of course , he was , uh , 56:35.288 --> 56:38.409 calling my name , I replied to him and 56:38.419 --> 56:40.860 after he told me we have a fire on 56:40.870 --> 56:44.750 board in deck , uh , 10 please go 56:44.760 --> 56:47.239 and inform captain and uh , cross all 56:47.250 --> 56:50.250 the , all the ventilation as per our 56:50.260 --> 56:54.090 procedures . Ok . And , uh , how 56:54.100 --> 56:56.929 did you or did you notify the captain ? 56:58.149 --> 57:01.209 So from that time I was talking to 57:01.219 --> 57:03.560 Captain , uh to , to chief officer , 57:03.570 --> 57:07.500 I'm sorry . Uh I , I went of course to , 57:07.510 --> 57:09.780 to the cargo control room because there 57:09.790 --> 57:11.939 we have telephone so we can call in 57:12.250 --> 57:14.510 different parts of the vester actually 57:14.520 --> 57:17.409 in , in each cabin in NGA room . So 57:17.419 --> 57:19.419 from there , I was planning to call 57:19.419 --> 57:23.219 captain in uh at this moment , the ad 57:23.229 --> 57:26.570 which was on duty with me . Uh She also 57:26.580 --> 57:28.802 heard the , the message from chief mate 57:28.802 --> 57:31.080 and she was already calling uh captain . 57:31.209 --> 57:33.439 And when I arrived in the cargo control 57:33.449 --> 57:35.939 room , he gave me the , the telephone 57:37.419 --> 57:41.129 after this captain answered . Ok , 57:41.229 --> 57:43.396 and , and what was the discussion with 57:43.396 --> 57:46.969 the captain ? So I just uh talk to 57:46.979 --> 57:49.310 captain . Uh obviously good evening 57:49.550 --> 57:53.239 captain . We had the fire on a board on 57:53.250 --> 57:56.570 deck uh on deck 10 . And she was , I 57:56.580 --> 57:59.100 don't remember exactly . She was asked , 57:59.110 --> 58:01.550 she wanted some details , details which 58:01.560 --> 58:04.000 I didn't have at that time because it 58:04.010 --> 58:07.290 was no time as I explained before what 58:07.300 --> 58:09.629 the chief mate told me . And she said , 58:09.639 --> 58:12.820 ok , I will go , I will go up and she 58:12.830 --> 58:16.679 hanged up the , the phone . Ok . 58:17.090 --> 58:20.330 And then what did you do ? I closed the 58:20.340 --> 58:23.830 ventilations and after that , 58:24.020 --> 58:27.669 because we were talking before I uh 58:28.389 --> 58:31.750 my duty is to go and check the nature 58:31.760 --> 58:34.129 and , uh , to see exactly what happened . 58:34.590 --> 58:37.280 Uh , what is the reason for the fire ? 58:37.929 --> 58:40.260 At , uh , this moment I left the cargo 58:40.270 --> 58:44.010 control room and I went to , to , to 58:44.020 --> 58:46.949 the , to deck , uh , to deck 10 . Ok . 58:47.129 --> 58:49.719 And then , uh , how did you close the 58:49.729 --> 58:53.219 ventilation in a cargo control room ? 58:53.229 --> 58:56.800 There are two computers . One is for 58:56.810 --> 58:58.754 chief mate , he's doing his , uh , 58:58.754 --> 59:00.770 cargo plans there . And one is the 59:00.780 --> 59:03.002 control for , uh , for the best for the 59:03.002 --> 59:05.699 ventilation , for the lights . And from 59:05.709 --> 59:08.042 there , you can uh stop the ventilation . 59:09.350 --> 59:12.870 And besides , uh , on the computer , 59:12.879 --> 59:16.090 did you hear or see , uh , indication 59:16.100 --> 59:19.739 that the ventilation shut down at that 59:19.750 --> 59:22.320 moment , there was , of course , a lot 59:22.330 --> 59:25.989 of uh , noise . The I , you 59:26.000 --> 59:28.010 can , you could hear also the fire 59:28.020 --> 59:31.500 alarm of the vessel . Uh You could hear 59:31.510 --> 59:34.310 some people screaming while I was going 59:34.320 --> 59:37.469 to deck 10 . Some , uh storres who were 59:37.479 --> 59:39.830 going , uh off the vessel , of course , 59:39.840 --> 59:42.389 and they were screaming , telling me 59:42.399 --> 59:45.080 it's fire on board , go down . Uh , 59:45.090 --> 59:48.919 obviously we , uh , we as part of the , 59:48.929 --> 59:50.800 the vessel , we have our 59:50.810 --> 59:54.040 responsibilities in case of emergency . 59:54.050 --> 59:56.000 So I couldn't go down . 59:57.379 --> 01:00:00.860 So , regarding what you asked , I can't 01:00:00.870 --> 01:00:03.090 tell you if I heard the ventilation 01:00:03.100 --> 01:00:05.267 shutting down or not because I was not 01:00:05.267 --> 01:00:09.239 paying attention . Ok . And then did 01:00:09.250 --> 01:00:11.306 you make it all the way to deck 10 ? 01:00:12.340 --> 01:00:16.229 Yes , I went to deck 10 . Ok . And how 01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:19.229 did you get to deck 10 ? I take , I 01:00:19.239 --> 01:00:21.820 took the , the ramp , which , uh , was 01:00:21.830 --> 01:00:25.770 going to deck six . Uh , here I , 01:00:25.780 --> 01:00:28.439 as I said , I met some , uh , some of 01:00:28.449 --> 01:00:30.840 the storres which were going down 01:00:31.070 --> 01:00:34.479 somewhere index six . I met , uh , I 01:00:34.489 --> 01:00:36.919 start to meet , uh , with , uh , 01:00:37.250 --> 01:00:39.361 members of the crew which were , uh , 01:00:39.361 --> 01:00:41.929 working at that moment . 01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:47.239 I remember , uh , somewhere near , uh , 01:00:47.300 --> 01:00:49.379 I was on , now , I was on the ramp 01:00:49.389 --> 01:00:52.020 which was , uh leading to deck uh 10 01:00:52.030 --> 01:00:54.500 already , but I was near somewhere in 01:00:54.510 --> 01:00:58.360 front of uh deck uh seven where I tried 01:00:58.370 --> 01:01:02.159 to pick one extinguisher together with 01:01:02.169 --> 01:01:04.750 uh one of the oasis . I don't remember 01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:07.709 who was with me at that time . 01:01:08.439 --> 01:01:11.479 And at this moment , uh chief mate was , 01:01:11.489 --> 01:01:14.090 uh shout was shouting from , uh from 01:01:14.100 --> 01:01:15.878 deck 10 to me . He was near the 01:01:15.878 --> 01:01:18.100 entrance to deck 10 and he was shouting 01:01:18.100 --> 01:01:20.959 and calling me to go and help him with 01:01:20.969 --> 01:01:24.169 the fire horses . As I said , at this 01:01:24.179 --> 01:01:27.800 moment , I didn't know how , uh , how 01:01:27.810 --> 01:01:30.129 the fire spread , spread it until then 01:01:30.139 --> 01:01:32.879 or what is the situation where I knew ? 01:01:32.889 --> 01:01:35.879 I had only the information . And as per 01:01:35.889 --> 01:01:38.000 the procedure , I stopped to take one 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:40.520 extinguisher with me . I didn't take it . 01:01:40.659 --> 01:01:42.326 The ways remained to take the 01:01:42.326 --> 01:01:44.629 extinguisher . I just , uh follow chief 01:01:44.669 --> 01:01:47.350 mate instruction and I went to , to DE 01:01:47.399 --> 01:01:50.929 10 . Ok . And when you got to deck 10 , 01:01:50.939 --> 01:01:54.669 what did you do . So when I went , when 01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:57.340 I arrived there , I was uh near the 01:01:57.350 --> 01:02:01.310 entrance , I could see a lot of smoke 01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.239 of black smoke uh somewhere in 01:02:05.250 --> 01:02:08.800 the left part in my left . Yeah . So 01:02:08.810 --> 01:02:11.409 it's starboard side actually . But in 01:02:11.419 --> 01:02:14.780 the aft part of the vessel , I could 01:02:14.790 --> 01:02:18.159 see uh very big flames . 01:02:19.050 --> 01:02:22.879 Uh And I could see some kind of uh 01:02:22.889 --> 01:02:26.310 shape of the car . It was like an SUV , 01:02:27.030 --> 01:02:30.530 at that moment , I didn't know which 01:02:30.540 --> 01:02:33.370 car what happened exactly after that . 01:02:33.379 --> 01:02:36.870 I uh found out that is the , the Jeep 01:02:36.879 --> 01:02:39.629 and the , the details . But at that 01:02:39.639 --> 01:02:42.389 moment , I could see only the shape of 01:02:42.399 --> 01:02:45.649 a car burning and looking like an SUV . 01:02:46.270 --> 01:02:49.800 Ok . So I continue or 01:02:50.300 --> 01:02:52.411 yes , please . Yeah . What , what did 01:02:52.411 --> 01:02:54.467 you do next ? So I arrived there , I 01:02:54.467 --> 01:02:58.070 saw this uh uh with uh the , 01:02:58.139 --> 01:03:00.669 the smoke and the shape and the chief 01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:03.250 mate , everything happened very fast . 01:03:03.260 --> 01:03:05.199 Chief mate , uh told me , help me 01:03:05.209 --> 01:03:08.250 prepare the horse , we start to prepare 01:03:08.260 --> 01:03:12.040 the horse . Uh I remember he was 01:03:12.050 --> 01:03:14.149 opening the valve and I was the one 01:03:14.159 --> 01:03:17.870 connecting the , the nozzle . And 01:03:17.879 --> 01:03:21.370 uh we try to , to , to extinguish 01:03:21.379 --> 01:03:25.060 the , the fire and 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:28.090 uh Lieutenant Reid if we could bring up 01:03:28.100 --> 01:03:29.830 a Coast Guard exhibit seven B 01:03:45.620 --> 01:03:49.620 ok . And uh yeah , if we uh page one I 01:03:49.629 --> 01:03:52.330 believe is , is deck 10 . Um and if 01:03:52.340 --> 01:03:54.507 it's possible if we could zoom in just 01:03:54.507 --> 01:03:56.062 a little on , on that image 01:04:03.149 --> 01:04:05.427 and Mr Camal . Are you able to see the , 01:04:05.427 --> 01:04:07.739 uh , image on the screen ? Yes , I can . 01:04:07.750 --> 01:04:10.770 Ok . Now I can see it , uh , zoomed . 01:04:11.260 --> 01:04:15.020 Ok . Um , and unfortunately you don't 01:04:15.219 --> 01:04:17.729 have control or hold on . That is , uh , 01:04:18.629 --> 01:04:20.851 that's not deck 10 , that's deck 11 , I 01:04:20.851 --> 01:04:23.310 believe . Yeah , this is deck 11 . No , 01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:25.790 it's deck is deck 10 . This one . Yes . 01:04:26.120 --> 01:04:29.590 Ok . Um , I , if you could , when 01:04:29.600 --> 01:04:33.169 you , uh , connected the fire hose , 01:04:33.179 --> 01:04:36.639 can you describe on this image for this 01:04:36.649 --> 01:04:38.989 layout of the , the ship's deck 10 01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:42.790 where that was ? Yes . So 01:04:43.879 --> 01:04:46.699 the , the hydrant , it's where is the , 01:04:46.709 --> 01:04:49.419 the arrow , the one which is leading , 01:04:49.469 --> 01:04:52.060 it's the , the ramp . Uh , exactly 01:04:52.070 --> 01:04:54.181 where , yeah , that is , uh , this is 01:04:54.181 --> 01:04:56.237 the , the hydrant I am talking about 01:04:56.237 --> 01:04:58.659 and , uh , of course , near it . It's 01:04:58.669 --> 01:05:02.350 the , the horse we , we used . Ok . So 01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:05.709 for , for the record , uh , based on 01:05:05.719 --> 01:05:08.399 the , the location of the cursor , um , 01:05:08.409 --> 01:05:12.000 that is around , uh , frame 23 01:05:12.030 --> 01:05:15.659 on the port side just at the top of the 01:05:15.669 --> 01:05:18.580 vehicle ramp , uh , where the white or 01:05:18.590 --> 01:05:21.340 the outline of an arrow . Um , I is 01:05:21.350 --> 01:05:23.572 coming up that ramp . Is that correct ? 01:05:23.572 --> 01:05:25.628 Yeah , that's correct . Somewhere in 01:05:25.628 --> 01:05:29.020 the , in the port side , frame 2023 01:05:29.030 --> 01:05:31.790 more or less . Yes . Ok . And then 01:05:31.800 --> 01:05:33.967 where , where did you observe the fire 01:05:33.967 --> 01:05:37.080 from that perspective ? So the fire 01:05:37.100 --> 01:05:40.469 was , it , let's say , somewhere 01:05:40.479 --> 01:05:43.600 between , uh , frame 10 and 15 . 01:05:43.820 --> 01:05:46.850 But in the aft part , of course , where 01:05:46.860 --> 01:05:50.770 where is the frame 10 , but more 01:05:50.780 --> 01:05:54.739 or less , uh , from the mid , mid ship 01:05:54.750 --> 01:05:57.060 to , to , to the port side . So , 01:05:57.070 --> 01:05:59.459 somewhere near the , the mid , uh , 01:06:00.540 --> 01:06:03.810 more or less there . Ok . Uh , so 01:06:03.820 --> 01:06:06.280 for the record , then the cursor is 01:06:06.290 --> 01:06:09.159 currently , uh , around frame 01:06:09.780 --> 01:06:13.679 10 to 12 . Uh , and , 01:06:13.689 --> 01:06:17.679 uh , just slightly to the port side 01:06:17.689 --> 01:06:18.911 of , of center line . 01:06:21.959 --> 01:06:24.800 Yeah , that's correct . Ok . And then , 01:06:24.810 --> 01:06:27.810 uh , then what did you do ? So we 01:06:27.820 --> 01:06:30.800 connected the , the hose , as I said , 01:06:30.810 --> 01:06:32.699 I , I connect the achievement was 01:06:32.699 --> 01:06:36.000 connecting the , the , the hose to the 01:06:36.010 --> 01:06:38.350 hydrant . And after she opened the 01:06:38.360 --> 01:06:41.040 valve and I , in the meantime , I , uh , 01:06:41.050 --> 01:06:44.379 connected the nozzle and , uh , we were 01:06:44.389 --> 01:06:47.969 waiting for , uh , for the , for the 01:06:47.979 --> 01:06:50.100 water to extinguish the , the fire . 01:06:51.169 --> 01:06:52.947 And I'm sorry , did you say you 01:06:52.947 --> 01:06:54.891 connected another hose ? No , no , 01:06:54.891 --> 01:06:57.540 negative ? Ok . So you , you are 01:06:57.550 --> 01:07:00.239 waiting for the , yeah , just one at , 01:07:00.250 --> 01:07:03.399 at , uh , at that point . Ok , 01:07:06.379 --> 01:07:09.080 because at that point in deck 10 , at 01:07:09.090 --> 01:07:11.669 that point was only me and him . 01:07:13.010 --> 01:07:15.669 Ok . And who , who was operating the 01:07:15.679 --> 01:07:19.050 hose ? I was , uh , I was , uh , 01:07:19.060 --> 01:07:21.171 keeping the nozzle . Yeah , the horse 01:07:21.171 --> 01:07:23.689 waiting , uh , for the , for , for the 01:07:23.699 --> 01:07:25.866 water to come to spray . And the chief 01:07:25.866 --> 01:07:28.179 mate was opening the , the hide and the 01:07:28.189 --> 01:07:31.360 valve of the hen . Ok . And when the 01:07:31.370 --> 01:07:34.409 water did come , uh , was , was it a , 01:07:35.229 --> 01:07:37.340 was it good pressure ? Was it a solid 01:07:37.340 --> 01:07:40.590 stream negative while I was there , the 01:07:40.600 --> 01:07:44.600 water didn't come . Ok , we 01:07:44.610 --> 01:07:46.777 had pressure in the hose because the , 01:07:46.777 --> 01:07:49.590 the , the , the hose , uh , was in 01:07:49.600 --> 01:07:52.889 pressure but no water came out while I 01:07:52.899 --> 01:07:55.010 was there , while , while I was still 01:07:55.010 --> 01:07:57.360 there . Ok . So you , you never sprayed 01:07:57.370 --> 01:08:00.399 water onto the fire ? Yes , I 01:08:00.409 --> 01:08:03.479 never , uh , while I was there , we , 01:08:03.489 --> 01:08:06.399 we didn't , uh , spray the , the water . 01:08:07.439 --> 01:08:10.899 Ok . Yeah , tell me . And 01:08:10.909 --> 01:08:13.719 why , why if you had water pressure , 01:08:13.729 --> 01:08:15.959 did you not spray water on the fire ? 01:08:16.270 --> 01:08:19.970 We didn't , uh , have , uh , water on 01:08:19.979 --> 01:08:22.540 the line because when you , when you 01:08:22.549 --> 01:08:25.709 open the pumps , yeah , it takes some 01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:28.620 time to , for the water to reach 01:08:29.439 --> 01:08:32.120 while we were on deck 10 , the water 01:08:32.129 --> 01:08:35.200 needed some , uh , time to , to come to 01:08:35.209 --> 01:08:39.180 deck 10 . That's , uh , that's what , 01:08:39.189 --> 01:08:42.620 uh , what happened . And 01:08:43.569 --> 01:08:47.229 I didn't have the time to , to actually 01:08:47.240 --> 01:08:49.700 attack the fire with water because a 01:08:49.709 --> 01:08:53.399 lot of smoke of black smoke came to us 01:08:53.850 --> 01:08:57.289 and we had to retreat . So , 01:08:58.240 --> 01:09:01.259 yes . And did , did you actually , 01:09:02.419 --> 01:09:04.419 uh , stretch the hose line into the 01:09:04.419 --> 01:09:07.930 space towards the fire at all ? It , uh , 01:09:07.939 --> 01:09:10.439 the , the hose remained there at that 01:09:10.450 --> 01:09:12.939 point . We had to retreat because a lot 01:09:12.950 --> 01:09:16.759 of smoke was there . And the chief 01:09:16.770 --> 01:09:20.560 mate , uh , told me if I can go in 01:09:20.569 --> 01:09:23.430 the one deck below . So in deck nine to 01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:25.750 cool down from , uh , from deck nine , 01:09:25.859 --> 01:09:28.026 and this is the point where I left the 01:09:28.026 --> 01:09:31.890 deck 10 , my , me and , uh , on the 01:09:31.899 --> 01:09:33.850 ramp to deck nine . I found , uh , 01:09:33.859 --> 01:09:37.270 another baby and the other third mate 01:09:38.259 --> 01:09:40.459 and I don't know what happened in back 01:09:40.470 --> 01:09:43.950 then anymore . And if they , uh , had 01:09:43.959 --> 01:09:47.310 time to use the water or not , when I 01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:50.029 arrived in deck nine , we connected the 01:09:50.040 --> 01:09:53.899 22 horses . Uh , one was , uh , 01:09:53.910 --> 01:09:57.399 operated by , uh , one of the A B 01:09:57.859 --> 01:10:00.339 and one was operated by me and , uh , 01:10:00.350 --> 01:10:02.529 for the , the other , for the officer 01:10:02.799 --> 01:10:05.390 And we , at this point we had water and 01:10:05.399 --> 01:10:07.510 we could , uh , cool , uh , cool down 01:10:07.510 --> 01:10:09.589 the walls under the fire with , uh , 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:12.819 with water . But I don't know what 01:10:12.830 --> 01:10:14.997 happened in , back then after I left . 01:10:15.629 --> 01:10:19.509 Ok . And when you left , deck 10 was 01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:22.439 the chief officer still there . Yes , 01:10:22.450 --> 01:10:24.617 she was still there . She only told me 01:10:24.617 --> 01:10:26.839 she give , uh , she gave me instruction 01:10:26.839 --> 01:10:29.830 to go , uh , in , uh , in deck nine and 01:10:29.839 --> 01:10:32.040 cool the cool from , uh , from below . 01:10:32.700 --> 01:10:34.890 Ok . And then when you , uh , enter 01:10:34.899 --> 01:10:38.009 deck nine , did you observe any fire 01:10:38.020 --> 01:10:41.979 there ? No , there was no fire at that 01:10:41.990 --> 01:10:45.520 moment . We could , uh , see only the , 01:10:46.129 --> 01:10:48.759 the dripping . Yeah , from the top . I , 01:10:48.770 --> 01:10:51.979 I maybe some , uh , I don't know . Mm . 01:10:52.120 --> 01:10:54.287 So , uh , some , uh , dripping through 01:10:54.287 --> 01:10:56.398 the , through the , through the holes 01:10:56.398 --> 01:10:59.649 of the , where we put the lashing . 01:10:59.660 --> 01:11:01.882 When we make the lashing for the cars , 01:11:01.882 --> 01:11:04.049 there are some , uh , some holes there 01:11:04.049 --> 01:11:06.089 and through these holes there was 01:11:06.100 --> 01:11:08.990 dripping , some metal plastic . I don't 01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:11.278 know what was that and we were cooling , 01:11:11.278 --> 01:11:13.620 uh , down also these , uh , these 01:11:13.629 --> 01:11:15.709 drippings and , and the wall , of 01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:19.240 course , and where , where on deck nine 01:11:19.250 --> 01:11:23.200 was that dripping down ? So , 01:11:23.390 --> 01:11:26.879 in deck nine around the frame 01:11:26.890 --> 01:11:30.399 10 . So below the , the car , which was 01:11:30.410 --> 01:11:33.359 in , uh , in deck 10 , somewhere in 01:11:33.370 --> 01:11:36.209 this area . Ok . All right . Thank you . 01:11:36.319 --> 01:11:38.652 Uh , Lieutenant Reid , we can take down , 01:11:38.652 --> 01:11:39.708 uh , the exhibit . 01:11:45.529 --> 01:11:49.379 And then did you continue to 01:11:49.740 --> 01:11:53.100 do boundary cooling on deck nine ? Yes , 01:11:53.109 --> 01:11:55.990 we did this boundary cooling in a deck 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:59.540 nine until , uh , 01:12:00.250 --> 01:12:03.660 I felt that , uh , I have , uh , I , I 01:12:03.669 --> 01:12:07.459 breathe very heavily . So at this point , 01:12:07.470 --> 01:12:09.581 I stopped the other two guys , I took 01:12:09.581 --> 01:12:12.580 them and while I took them , a lot of , 01:12:12.589 --> 01:12:15.009 uh , black smoke covered the entire 01:12:15.020 --> 01:12:17.850 deck , uh , nine . So when we were out 01:12:17.859 --> 01:12:20.520 of deck nine , you could see nothing 01:12:20.529 --> 01:12:22.585 inside . We were coming outside from 01:12:22.585 --> 01:12:25.549 the smoke . That's why after this , uh , 01:12:25.629 --> 01:12:28.229 I had , uh , a little bit of problems 01:12:28.240 --> 01:12:31.259 breathing for a , for a while . 01:12:32.049 --> 01:12:34.720 Ok . So , uh , conditions , if I 01:12:34.729 --> 01:12:36.785 understand correctly , conditions on 01:12:36.785 --> 01:12:39.430 deck nine changed , it became too smoky 01:12:40.319 --> 01:12:43.000 or smoke filled . And , uh , you and 01:12:43.009 --> 01:12:45.287 all of the crew members left deck nine . 01:12:46.290 --> 01:12:48.350 Yes , we left , uh , deck nine . 01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:50.569 Actually , we were only free person 01:12:50.580 --> 01:12:53.129 inside deck nine and me and the other 01:12:53.140 --> 01:12:55.560 two , as I said , I took these guys , 01:12:55.569 --> 01:12:57.625 uh , these two guys outside , I told 01:12:57.625 --> 01:13:00.450 them and at the entrance of deck nine , 01:13:00.459 --> 01:13:02.830 we meet uh we met with chief mate , 01:13:02.879 --> 01:13:04.950 which told us to retreat , but you 01:13:04.959 --> 01:13:07.319 already did this because as I told you 01:13:07.330 --> 01:13:11.229 a lot of smoke came and somewhere at 01:13:11.240 --> 01:13:14.740 this point , uh the captain , uh 01:13:15.129 --> 01:13:18.729 gi give us , gave us the order to , 01:13:19.609 --> 01:13:22.850 to go down to close uh the , the water 01:13:22.859 --> 01:13:25.350 tight doors and everything because we 01:13:25.359 --> 01:13:28.250 will release the CO2 . So this is the 01:13:28.259 --> 01:13:32.169 point when uh all the crew go , went to , 01:13:32.180 --> 01:13:35.990 to , to the main ramp somewhere in the 01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:38.810 deck . As I said , from this point 01:13:38.819 --> 01:13:41.910 until a little bit later , I had some , 01:13:41.919 --> 01:13:45.069 uh , breathing problems . Ok . And 01:13:45.689 --> 01:13:48.029 who closed ? Uh , you , you , you said 01:13:48.819 --> 01:13:50.763 the order was given to close water 01:13:50.763 --> 01:13:52.986 tight doors . Uh , who , who closed the 01:13:52.986 --> 01:13:55.097 watertight doors ? Did you ? No , I , 01:13:55.097 --> 01:13:58.350 uh , I didn't close any . I remember 01:13:58.810 --> 01:14:02.000 as I said , I was breathing heavily but , 01:14:02.790 --> 01:14:06.290 uh , I went down and , uh , in deck six , 01:14:06.589 --> 01:14:10.149 I wanted to close the , the , the water 01:14:10.160 --> 01:14:12.709 tight door , uh , for the , for the 01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:14.720 weather deck . I remember there was 01:14:14.729 --> 01:14:18.520 already 11 person which was closing 01:14:18.529 --> 01:14:22.430 or I left this and I went for the , for 01:14:22.439 --> 01:14:25.100 the water tight door between , uh , 01:14:25.109 --> 01:14:27.919 deck free and the , the other deck and 01:14:27.930 --> 01:14:30.600 there again was somebody . And after 01:14:30.609 --> 01:14:32.939 this , I , uh , I didn't , uh , do 01:14:32.950 --> 01:14:35.540 anything because , uh , of the , of the 01:14:35.549 --> 01:14:37.660 breathing , uh , problems were , were 01:14:37.660 --> 01:14:41.560 much worse . Ok . Uh , and 01:14:41.569 --> 01:14:45.240 then what did you do ? So , I remember 01:14:45.250 --> 01:14:48.620 I met at the moment I don't know . What 01:14:48.629 --> 01:14:52.049 is his rank ? Where , what is his name ? 01:14:52.060 --> 01:14:55.379 I forget after all this time was one 01:14:55.979 --> 01:14:59.569 small uh guy with glasses uh 01:14:59.580 --> 01:15:02.240 from shore , of course , from the shore , 01:15:02.250 --> 01:15:04.479 but I don't remember his rank . I 01:15:04.490 --> 01:15:06.990 remember he came to me to give me some 01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:09.939 water . I told him first time I don't 01:15:09.950 --> 01:15:13.029 need , he insisted . And after I stayed 01:15:13.040 --> 01:15:15.169 on the ramp outside . 01:15:17.209 --> 01:15:20.359 Ok . Um And this person that you're 01:15:20.370 --> 01:15:23.470 describing was part of the shore side , 01:15:24.020 --> 01:15:27.770 uh , Steve doors or longshoreman . He 01:15:27.779 --> 01:15:30.470 was part of uh , the , the , the short 01:15:30.479 --> 01:15:33.330 side . But I don't remember now for 01:15:33.339 --> 01:15:36.109 which part of parties he was working . 01:15:36.120 --> 01:15:38.342 I don't remember now . And I also don't 01:15:38.342 --> 01:15:40.160 remember uh , his name . I just 01:15:40.169 --> 01:15:43.919 remember he had , he was a small 01:15:43.930 --> 01:15:47.100 and , uh , he had uh glasses . 01:15:47.709 --> 01:15:51.330 Ok . All right . Um , and 01:15:51.339 --> 01:15:55.189 then , uh , were you , were you at 01:15:55.200 --> 01:15:58.040 that location , um , at , at the ramp 01:15:58.049 --> 01:16:01.609 when the fire department arrived ? No , 01:16:01.620 --> 01:16:03.620 I was not on the ramp when the fire 01:16:03.620 --> 01:16:06.290 department arrived ? I already left . 01:16:07.589 --> 01:16:09.756 Ok . And where , I'm sorry , where did 01:16:09.756 --> 01:16:13.569 you go ? Um Then , so while I 01:16:13.580 --> 01:16:17.569 was , uh , taking a , taking a rest , 01:16:17.580 --> 01:16:19.858 let's say like this because of my , uh , 01:16:19.858 --> 01:16:23.600 breathing . Uh I understand that , uh , 01:16:24.149 --> 01:16:26.240 captain gave the , gave the order to 01:16:26.250 --> 01:16:28.240 release the Co2 after we closed 01:16:28.250 --> 01:16:30.770 everything in our side . 01:16:31.549 --> 01:16:35.490 And , uh , I just , I don't know when 01:16:35.500 --> 01:16:38.310 or how , but I , uh , I remember that I , 01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:40.830 uh heard that we still have some , uh , 01:16:41.100 --> 01:16:44.209 fire in deck . We , uh , the fire 01:16:44.220 --> 01:16:47.049 spread and now it was somewhere in deck 01:16:47.060 --> 01:16:50.089 12 or , uh , something like that . I 01:16:50.100 --> 01:16:53.629 don't remember exactly . I saw Chid and 01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:56.970 somebody else , another person left 01:16:56.979 --> 01:17:00.279 this deck three and went , uh , went up 01:17:01.009 --> 01:17:03.779 and after that , I remember that , uh , 01:17:03.790 --> 01:17:06.540 we also left the deck three and we went 01:17:06.549 --> 01:17:09.930 to , to , to deck 11 . And I remember I 01:17:09.939 --> 01:17:13.020 took the , the remaining persons in de 01:17:13.149 --> 01:17:15.660 three with me except for the UTAB . 01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:19.333 Ok . And when you say remaining persons , 01:17:19.333 --> 01:17:21.278 uh those are members of the crew , 01:17:21.278 --> 01:17:23.278 ship's crew . Yes , of the , of the 01:17:23.278 --> 01:17:25.779 crew , part of the crew , the , the 01:17:25.790 --> 01:17:28.890 guys which were working in uh in uh in 01:17:28.899 --> 01:17:30.621 which were there for the cargo 01:17:30.621 --> 01:17:32.732 operation . When we all , all of us , 01:17:32.732 --> 01:17:35.700 we retreat to deck to deck free . Ok . 01:17:35.779 --> 01:17:38.189 And then how , how did you go up to 01:17:38.200 --> 01:17:42.200 deck 11 ? So we picked the staircase 01:17:42.209 --> 01:17:44.799 from the , from the starboard site 01:17:44.810 --> 01:17:48.000 which is located near the elevator . 01:17:49.310 --> 01:17:51.979 I told them , I remember I told to , to 01:17:51.990 --> 01:17:54.319 the guys which were in front to pay 01:17:54.330 --> 01:17:56.729 attention . If they see something good 01:17:56.740 --> 01:18:00.439 like smoke or fire , we will return . 01:18:01.430 --> 01:18:04.350 Uh Fortunately there was nothing on the 01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:06.729 staircase . So we continued our way 01:18:06.740 --> 01:18:10.180 until deck 11 . Ok . Ok . 01:18:11.299 --> 01:18:14.290 And um Mr Jamal , I think this is 01:18:14.299 --> 01:18:16.521 probably a , a good breaking point . Uh 01:18:16.521 --> 01:18:18.855 We , we've been going for about an hour . 01:18:18.855 --> 01:18:21.609 Uh So we're gonna take a uh 01:18:23.020 --> 01:18:26.089 let's take a 10 minute recess . Um , 01:18:26.509 --> 01:18:28.565 and uh , then we will come back . So 01:18:28.565 --> 01:18:32.200 the time is now uh 10:28 a.m. and we 01:18:32.209 --> 01:18:36.029 will resume uh again at 10:38 a.m. 01:18:36.439 --> 01:18:40.180 Ok , thank you . Ok , good 01:18:40.189 --> 01:18:42.609 morning . Uh , the time is now 10:38 01:18:42.620 --> 01:18:45.450 a.m. Eastern Standard Time . Uh Mr Chum 01:18:45.819 --> 01:18:49.430 Mao , are you still there ? Yeah , I'm 01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:52.810 here . Can you see me ? I can see you . 01:18:52.819 --> 01:18:53.259 Yes . 01:18:56.979 --> 01:19:00.899 Take , uh , the hearing is now 01:19:00.970 --> 01:19:03.959 uh reconvened again . It's uh 10:38 01:19:03.970 --> 01:19:06.830 a.m. Eastern Standard Time . And uh we 01:19:06.839 --> 01:19:08.895 are back on the record regarding the 01:19:08.895 --> 01:19:11.479 fire on board Grande Costa de vio . Uh 01:19:11.490 --> 01:19:14.029 This is a continuation of Mr Cla's 01:19:14.040 --> 01:19:16.209 testimony . Uh Mr Cla just as a 01:19:16.220 --> 01:19:19.350 reminder you're still under oath . Yes . 01:19:22.370 --> 01:19:25.669 Um The Schuman when we uh broke for the 01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:28.640 recess , I believe . Um you had , you 01:19:28.649 --> 01:19:31.540 were describing uh having gone up the 01:19:31.549 --> 01:19:34.290 starboard side stairwell to deck 11 . 01:19:34.819 --> 01:19:36.810 Um If you could uh plea , please 01:19:36.819 --> 01:19:39.299 describe uh what the conditions were uh 01:19:39.310 --> 01:19:42.759 when you got up to deck 11 . Uh Before 01:19:42.770 --> 01:19:46.580 that , I just want to inform you that I 01:19:46.589 --> 01:19:50.319 can't see you . Oh , you can't see me . 01:19:50.330 --> 01:19:53.490 Yeah , they , they made the , the image 01:19:53.500 --> 01:19:55.779 you already made it stuck so I can't 01:19:55.790 --> 01:19:57.679 see you move . I can't see you do 01:19:57.679 --> 01:20:00.479 nothing . OK . Um Can , can you at 01:20:00.490 --> 01:20:02.939 least hear me then ? Yes , I can hear 01:20:02.950 --> 01:20:06.290 you . Um I will try turning my camera 01:20:06.299 --> 01:20:08.359 off and back on . Uh But while I'm 01:20:08.370 --> 01:20:10.481 doing that since you can hear me . At 01:20:10.481 --> 01:20:12.703 least uh I if you could please describe 01:20:12.703 --> 01:20:15.259 for us uh what you observed when you 01:20:15.270 --> 01:20:18.759 got off the deck 11 . So when I arrived 01:20:18.770 --> 01:20:22.669 in deck 11 , there were some of my uh 01:20:23.020 --> 01:20:25.669 of my colleagues , part of the crew who 01:20:25.729 --> 01:20:28.490 were in the deck 11 . I don't remember 01:20:28.500 --> 01:20:31.870 now , who was there ? I remember that 01:20:31.879 --> 01:20:34.040 there was uh one A B 01:20:35.790 --> 01:20:39.790 uh she was uh , I don't remember 01:20:39.799 --> 01:20:42.410 if he already started , uh , to , to 01:20:42.419 --> 01:20:44.680 cool down or she was preparing the 01:20:44.689 --> 01:20:47.569 horses to cool down the , the wall on 01:20:47.580 --> 01:20:51.149 deck 11 . Uh , and 01:20:51.160 --> 01:20:54.700 after that , I remember in deck 12 . So 01:20:54.709 --> 01:20:58.020 I was near the elevator going to deck 01:20:58.029 --> 01:21:01.250 11 . Uh , and I saw 01:21:01.259 --> 01:21:04.910 captain in deck 12 was looking 01:21:04.919 --> 01:21:07.379 at , uh , was there coordinating the 01:21:07.390 --> 01:21:10.839 teams and he saw me at this point , I 01:21:10.850 --> 01:21:13.970 asked him about the hospital if I go 01:21:13.979 --> 01:21:17.580 there and like this or he needs 01:21:17.589 --> 01:21:21.339 me . And , uh , he told me 01:21:21.350 --> 01:21:24.270 that he will need , uh , my assistance 01:21:24.279 --> 01:21:26.549 with the teams because it's uh , uh a 01:21:27.149 --> 01:21:28.979 big problem with , uh , 01:21:30.910 --> 01:21:33.209 with the fire . We have fire on board . 01:21:33.220 --> 01:21:37.220 It's big and , uh , it's , 01:21:37.229 --> 01:21:39.340 uh , at the moment , it's not no need 01:21:39.340 --> 01:21:41.562 for the hospital . She told me just the 01:21:41.562 --> 01:21:43.729 hospital to be ready just in case of , 01:21:43.799 --> 01:21:45.799 I told him that everything is ready 01:21:45.799 --> 01:21:48.979 inside . And then at that , at that 01:21:48.990 --> 01:21:51.669 time , did you , when you said you , uh 01:21:51.680 --> 01:21:53.859 you were on deck 11 . Did you observe 01:21:53.870 --> 01:21:56.770 or enter , uh , the cargo area on deck 01:21:56.779 --> 01:22:00.250 11 ? No , after I left deck , uh , free , 01:22:00.259 --> 01:22:03.759 I never enter , uh , the , the cargo 01:22:03.770 --> 01:22:07.290 area again until after the fire was out 01:22:07.299 --> 01:22:10.950 after a few days . Ok . And then 01:22:10.959 --> 01:22:13.580 on , when you , uh , then got up on to 01:22:13.589 --> 01:22:15.311 deck 12 , what , what were the 01:22:15.311 --> 01:22:17.367 conditions uh , that you observed up 01:22:17.367 --> 01:22:20.990 there ? Sorry . Can you repeat on deck 01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:23.629 12 ? Uh , what , what were the 01:22:23.640 --> 01:22:27.109 conditions you observed there ? I don't 01:22:27.120 --> 01:22:30.620 know about deck 12 because as I 01:22:30.629 --> 01:22:33.759 said , the captain told me to help you 01:22:33.770 --> 01:22:37.540 to help the guys in deck 11 . So I've 01:22:37.549 --> 01:22:41.370 become the , the , the team lead , the , 01:22:41.379 --> 01:22:43.546 one of the team leader of the boundary 01:22:43.546 --> 01:22:45.910 cooling . So we started to , to , to 01:22:45.919 --> 01:22:47.975 cool the , the walls of the garage , 01:22:47.975 --> 01:22:51.229 but in deck uh in deck uh 11 . 01:22:51.379 --> 01:22:54.040 So , uh I don't know what , what was 01:22:54.049 --> 01:22:56.160 the situation in the actual , at that 01:22:56.160 --> 01:22:58.620 point ? Ok . Uh And then , 01:23:00.009 --> 01:23:02.450 uh what , what , what did you do do 01:23:02.459 --> 01:23:06.259 next ? So we start with the cooling 01:23:07.129 --> 01:23:10.700 from time to time . I checked uh the , 01:23:10.709 --> 01:23:13.029 the walls with my hand to see if it , 01:23:13.040 --> 01:23:17.000 if they are um uh warm or not or if 01:23:17.009 --> 01:23:20.790 they are cold . Uh I don't remember 01:23:20.799 --> 01:23:24.569 now what I felt at that moment and 01:23:24.580 --> 01:23:28.419 that uh at some point , uh two 01:23:28.430 --> 01:23:31.859 firemen came uh to our vessel , 01:23:32.740 --> 01:23:35.770 uh except for the , for our A B which 01:23:35.779 --> 01:23:39.339 was on duty on the ramp . Uh I was the 01:23:39.350 --> 01:23:42.129 first one to , to encounter these two 01:23:42.140 --> 01:23:44.839 firemen . The first two firemen which 01:23:44.850 --> 01:23:48.009 came through the same staircase is like 01:23:48.020 --> 01:23:51.370 a staircase like us . Ok . And when 01:23:51.379 --> 01:23:53.657 you're describing the boundary cooling , 01:23:53.657 --> 01:23:56.580 uh I know deck 11 has cargo space . It 01:23:56.589 --> 01:23:58.680 has area that's uh you know , open 01:23:58.689 --> 01:24:00.879 weather deck and there's area that is 01:24:01.479 --> 01:24:04.830 uh crew bing as well . Correct . Yes . 01:24:05.339 --> 01:24:07.395 Where , where were you all doing the 01:24:07.395 --> 01:24:10.319 boundary cooling ? So we were on the 01:24:10.330 --> 01:24:14.049 starboard side from , from the outside . 01:24:14.060 --> 01:24:16.282 Of course , in , uh where is the , uh , 01:24:16.282 --> 01:24:18.490 the life boat in Starboard side ? 01:24:18.500 --> 01:24:21.549 Located near , uh near it ? We were uh 01:24:21.560 --> 01:24:24.399 cooling down the walls of the garage . 01:24:24.759 --> 01:24:27.839 So in , uh , in starboard side , ok . 01:24:28.569 --> 01:24:30.959 Uh in the , in the vicinity of the , of 01:24:30.970 --> 01:24:33.200 the , of the life boat , of course , in 01:24:33.209 --> 01:24:35.431 front of the lifeboat , it's the , it's 01:24:35.431 --> 01:24:38.680 the garage in the 11 . Ok . Uh And then , 01:24:38.689 --> 01:24:41.060 so when the two firefighters , uh , 01:24:41.069 --> 01:24:43.959 came up , what , what happened then ? 01:24:44.830 --> 01:24:48.290 So two firefighters arrived , I 01:24:48.430 --> 01:24:52.180 don't know their name . Uh I know only 01:24:52.189 --> 01:24:55.089 that they were , uh , two afroamericans . 01:24:56.479 --> 01:24:59.680 Uh They were not equipped properly . I 01:24:59.689 --> 01:25:02.759 mean , they had the t-shirt , they had 01:25:02.770 --> 01:25:05.100 the , the mask , uh , was not on the 01:25:05.109 --> 01:25:09.069 face was II , I don't remember 01:25:09.080 --> 01:25:12.069 if it was laying down their shoulder or , 01:25:12.319 --> 01:25:14.819 uh , it was not even there . I don't 01:25:14.830 --> 01:25:16.997 remember what I remember . It's , uh , 01:25:16.997 --> 01:25:19.899 that they didn't have the mask . They 01:25:19.910 --> 01:25:23.700 asked me where is the fire ? I told 01:25:23.709 --> 01:25:26.220 them that the fire is inside the garage . 01:25:26.299 --> 01:25:29.169 And they asked me if they can , uh , 01:25:29.180 --> 01:25:32.649 where to access the , the garage . As I , 01:25:32.660 --> 01:25:35.459 he , uh , as I heard before that , uh , 01:25:35.470 --> 01:25:38.899 everybody or chief mate actually was in , 01:25:38.910 --> 01:25:41.470 uh , uh , in , uh , in deck 12 , uh , 01:25:41.479 --> 01:25:44.680 near the staircase . So this was the 01:25:44.689 --> 01:25:47.259 point to , to gather up everybody . I 01:25:47.270 --> 01:25:49.399 told them there and they asked me if 01:25:49.410 --> 01:25:52.740 they can use also the , the door in 01:25:52.750 --> 01:25:55.029 deck 11 . I told them they should go 01:25:55.040 --> 01:25:57.151 there . They didn't want to listen to 01:25:57.151 --> 01:26:00.520 me and they wanted to go uh inside the 01:26:00.529 --> 01:26:02.640 garage to open the door of the garage 01:26:02.640 --> 01:26:05.770 in deck 11 . Uh in this moment , I 01:26:05.779 --> 01:26:08.169 stopped them and I told them that we 01:26:08.180 --> 01:26:10.990 already released inside the CO2 . And I 01:26:11.000 --> 01:26:14.149 told them , don't go several times . 01:26:14.160 --> 01:26:17.819 They refused to listen to me . II , 01:26:17.930 --> 01:26:20.930 I suppose they understand what I told 01:26:20.939 --> 01:26:23.439 them because I told them CO2 is 01:26:23.450 --> 01:26:25.450 released already inside . If you go 01:26:25.450 --> 01:26:27.672 there , you can't breathe without the , 01:26:27.672 --> 01:26:30.189 the , the masks . They didn't listen to 01:26:30.200 --> 01:26:32.879 me at some point . Captain , which was 01:26:32.890 --> 01:26:36.779 uh above me in deck 12 told me to tell 01:26:36.790 --> 01:26:39.500 them the , the thing . I already , I , 01:26:39.629 --> 01:26:42.549 I already spoken to them . And that's , 01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:45.140 uh and after that , he also shouted to 01:26:45.149 --> 01:26:48.040 them to don't go inside . I also repeat 01:26:48.049 --> 01:26:51.470 this and only after this uh moment , uh 01:26:51.600 --> 01:26:54.000 they started to uh keep themselves with 01:26:54.009 --> 01:26:56.540 the firefighter fighting jacket with 01:26:56.549 --> 01:26:58.605 the beefing apparatus and helmet and 01:26:58.605 --> 01:27:02.250 everything . Only after we shouted 01:27:02.259 --> 01:27:05.049 them and told them , uh , many times 01:27:05.060 --> 01:27:07.759 that inside they can't believe . Ok . 01:27:07.859 --> 01:27:09.970 So they , they had the equipment with 01:27:09.970 --> 01:27:11.970 them , but they weren't wearing the 01:27:11.970 --> 01:27:14.081 mask when they first came out . Yes , 01:27:14.081 --> 01:27:16.450 they had the equipment with them . They 01:27:16.459 --> 01:27:18.560 wanted to go inside without the 01:27:18.569 --> 01:27:22.129 equipment . And only after we told them 01:27:22.140 --> 01:27:24.169 many , many times , me and captain 01:27:24.180 --> 01:27:26.689 don't go to , to never open the door 01:27:27.379 --> 01:27:29.323 and go inside . We follow properly 01:27:29.459 --> 01:27:32.270 human . They listen to us . Ok . And 01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:35.379 did , did they ever open the door ? Yes , 01:27:35.390 --> 01:27:39.109 they opened also the door . But , uh , 01:27:40.109 --> 01:27:42.520 they opened the door in a manner 01:27:44.160 --> 01:27:46.450 a little bit strange . Normally , in 01:27:46.459 --> 01:27:49.160 case of a fire , you must check , you 01:27:49.169 --> 01:27:52.220 must , uh , see if the , the walls , 01:27:52.229 --> 01:27:54.770 the door , it's , uh , warm or not 01:27:55.580 --> 01:27:57.950 because the , if you open it , normally 01:27:57.959 --> 01:28:00.181 when the oxygen , you don't know what's 01:28:00.181 --> 01:28:02.292 inside . Of course . So if the oxygen 01:28:02.292 --> 01:28:05.270 reaches inside , you can , uh , make 01:28:05.279 --> 01:28:07.446 it's a risk of explosion , of course . 01:28:07.446 --> 01:28:09.390 And they open the door like it was 01:28:09.390 --> 01:28:12.779 normal situation like they enter . Ok . 01:28:14.450 --> 01:28:16.649 What , uh , were you able to observe 01:28:16.660 --> 01:28:19.740 the conditions ? Uh , were you able to 01:28:19.750 --> 01:28:21.970 see through the door into the , the 01:28:21.979 --> 01:28:25.330 cardio deck ? So when they opened the , 01:28:25.339 --> 01:28:27.561 the door and they wanted to go inside , 01:28:27.561 --> 01:28:29.979 I remember they have with them , only 01:28:29.990 --> 01:28:33.899 one , flashlight or each of them 01:28:33.910 --> 01:28:36.970 had the one flashlight in the ax , 01:28:37.259 --> 01:28:41.029 no , uh hydrant , uh , no , uh , no 01:28:41.040 --> 01:28:44.200 hydrants . No , uh no horses , nothing . 01:28:44.209 --> 01:28:47.040 They go only like this . And , uh , 01:28:47.049 --> 01:28:49.649 while the door was open from the angle 01:28:49.660 --> 01:28:51.882 where I was , I could see only a little 01:28:51.890 --> 01:28:55.209 bit , uh , inside . But , uh , I saw 01:28:55.220 --> 01:28:58.500 some , uh , white smoke , white to gray 01:28:58.509 --> 01:29:01.870 smoke , which didn't come , uh , didn't 01:29:01.879 --> 01:29:04.709 come outside , remain only inside . And 01:29:04.720 --> 01:29:07.240 after that , they closed the door . Ok . 01:29:07.569 --> 01:29:09.930 Uh , and was , was there a light inside 01:29:09.939 --> 01:29:13.819 of deck 11 ? Um , or was it dark ? No , 01:29:13.830 --> 01:29:17.220 it was uh dark . That's why I couldn't 01:29:17.229 --> 01:29:19.680 see too much inside . I could see only 01:29:19.689 --> 01:29:22.439 at the entrance , also the angle I was 01:29:22.450 --> 01:29:24.689 outside and because of the angle , I 01:29:24.700 --> 01:29:27.430 couldn't see a lot inside , but I could 01:29:27.439 --> 01:29:30.189 see only what I already told you . Ok . 01:29:30.379 --> 01:29:33.799 Uh And , and then what happened after 01:29:33.810 --> 01:29:36.819 that ? They went inside , uh 01:29:38.180 --> 01:29:40.479 They never came out through that door . 01:29:41.990 --> 01:29:45.430 Uh We continued with our , with our uh 01:29:45.439 --> 01:29:48.549 uh boundary cooling . I don't remember 01:29:48.560 --> 01:29:52.490 when or uh how , uh or 01:29:52.500 --> 01:29:55.970 why captain told me to go in deck uh 12 . 01:29:56.180 --> 01:29:59.290 So I , I went in deck 12 , where were 01:29:59.299 --> 01:30:01.740 other teams already making boundary 01:30:01.750 --> 01:30:05.049 cooling ? And I become one of the 01:30:05.060 --> 01:30:07.720 leader , the leader of one of the , of 01:30:07.729 --> 01:30:11.459 the teams in deck 12 . And we continue 01:30:11.470 --> 01:30:14.009 with the , with the boundary cooling in 01:30:14.029 --> 01:30:17.970 deck 12 and just to clarify . Um So 01:30:17.979 --> 01:30:20.549 when the two firefighters opened the 01:30:20.560 --> 01:30:24.439 door to the cargo deck on 11 , did they 01:30:24.450 --> 01:30:27.629 actually go inside the space ? Yes . 01:30:27.640 --> 01:30:29.751 And they closed the door after them . 01:30:30.129 --> 01:30:32.990 Ok . So they , they went into the space 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:35.056 and closed the door behind them . So 01:30:35.056 --> 01:30:37.167 you did not see them anymore ? That's 01:30:37.167 --> 01:30:40.430 correct . And do you , am I correct in 01:30:40.439 --> 01:30:42.495 understanding what you said that you 01:30:42.495 --> 01:30:45.970 never saw them come back out ? Yes , I 01:30:45.979 --> 01:30:48.709 never saw them come out , come out , 01:30:48.720 --> 01:30:51.089 through the door and through the other 01:30:51.100 --> 01:30:54.709 doors . But I don't know when or how 01:30:54.720 --> 01:30:57.439 they came out . I just know that I , I 01:30:57.450 --> 01:31:00.169 never saw them after that . Ok . And 01:31:00.180 --> 01:31:02.250 they were not the reason they were 01:31:02.259 --> 01:31:04.370 wearing masks at that point when they 01:31:04.370 --> 01:31:06.850 went in . Yes , they had , uh , when 01:31:06.859 --> 01:31:09.359 they went inside after we told them 01:31:09.370 --> 01:31:11.669 many times they were fully equipped , 01:31:12.279 --> 01:31:15.229 uh , we found the horse or the 01:31:15.240 --> 01:31:18.750 extinguisher . Ok . Um , and then when 01:31:18.759 --> 01:31:20.899 you went on to deck 12 , uh what were 01:31:20.910 --> 01:31:23.689 the conditions uh you observed there 01:31:23.700 --> 01:31:27.290 was there any fire , not fire , 01:31:27.680 --> 01:31:31.629 but I could see only , um , some uh 01:31:31.640 --> 01:31:35.450 black smoke going out 01:31:35.459 --> 01:31:39.290 from the , from the , from the ramp 01:31:39.299 --> 01:31:41.299 which is go , which is leading from 01:31:41.299 --> 01:31:45.229 deck 11 to deck 12 . There is one water 01:31:45.240 --> 01:31:47.459 tight , uh , water tight over there . 01:31:47.930 --> 01:31:50.097 Ok . And that , that was black smoke . 01:31:50.560 --> 01:31:53.200 Yes , it was black smoke . I don't know 01:31:53.209 --> 01:31:57.020 what happened there . Ok . Uh 01:31:58.459 --> 01:32:00.292 Stepping back just a second . Uh 01:32:00.292 --> 01:32:02.237 Lieutenant Reed , can you bring up 01:32:02.237 --> 01:32:04.570 Coast Guard exhibit seven B please ? Uh , 01:32:04.570 --> 01:32:06.799 and the page with deck 11 on it . 01:32:11.720 --> 01:32:15.330 Ok . And Mr 01:32:15.669 --> 01:32:17.780 Camal , are you able to see the image 01:32:17.780 --> 01:32:20.310 on your screen . Yes . OK . Uh On , on 01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:22.259 this image , uh the door that the 01:32:22.270 --> 01:32:25.520 firefighters went into , um can you 01:32:25.529 --> 01:32:27.640 point that help , help us orient ? Uh 01:32:27.640 --> 01:32:29.640 So we can put the cursor over where 01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:32.959 that door is located ? OK . So there is 01:32:32.970 --> 01:32:36.189 uh the life boat in starboard side . 01:32:37.669 --> 01:32:41.370 We uh if you see in front of 01:32:41.379 --> 01:32:44.850 the in uh actually in port side of 01:32:44.859 --> 01:32:48.450 the , of the life boat , it's the wall 01:32:48.589 --> 01:32:52.439 for the garage . So exactly 01:32:52.450 --> 01:32:54.561 where from , where from where , where 01:32:54.561 --> 01:32:57.000 the , the , the Cruso is now go to the 01:32:57.009 --> 01:33:00.770 corner in the left somewhere . 01:33:00.779 --> 01:33:03.000 Where is the door ? Yes , that one and 01:33:03.009 --> 01:33:05.009 go . So it's frame , I don't know , 01:33:05.009 --> 01:33:06.819 maybe 50 01:33:08.129 --> 01:33:11.669 55 more or less frame , 55 years , 01:33:12.959 --> 01:33:16.830 ok . So I'm gonna , and for the record , 01:33:16.839 --> 01:33:20.549 uh that is located uh just 01:33:20.560 --> 01:33:23.240 below or just to the starboard of a 01:33:23.250 --> 01:33:26.029 green arrow , uh that is , is pointing 01:33:26.040 --> 01:33:28.799 down in this image . Yes . Yes . 01:33:30.899 --> 01:33:33.919 And then is along that bulkhead that 01:33:33.930 --> 01:33:36.799 you oriented us to , which has a green 01:33:36.879 --> 01:33:39.580 arrow pointing to the , in this image 01:33:39.589 --> 01:33:41.533 to the left or to the stern of the 01:33:41.533 --> 01:33:43.645 vessel . Is that where you , what you 01:33:43.645 --> 01:33:45.922 were boundary cooling ? Yes . This one , 01:33:45.922 --> 01:33:48.439 we were boundary cooling from uh from 01:33:48.450 --> 01:33:50.450 the , from the right to the left of 01:33:50.450 --> 01:33:54.310 this door , ok . All right . Thank you . 01:33:55.580 --> 01:33:57.747 Um Lieutenant read . You can take down 01:33:59.370 --> 01:34:00.140 the exhibit 01:34:03.700 --> 01:34:05.811 and then Mr Chum Mao when you were on 01:34:05.811 --> 01:34:08.330 deck 12 , uh you , you , you had said 01:34:08.339 --> 01:34:10.395 that you started doing , uh you were 01:34:10.395 --> 01:34:12.728 one of the teams doing boundary cooling . 01:34:12.728 --> 01:34:15.330 Um And I , and I'm sorry , uh did you 01:34:15.339 --> 01:34:17.339 observe any fire on deck 12 at that 01:34:17.339 --> 01:34:21.060 point ? No , no fire o as I 01:34:21.069 --> 01:34:24.919 said , only smoke ? Ok . Um 01:34:28.229 --> 01:34:31.779 And then , uh did you Contin continue 01:34:31.790 --> 01:34:34.049 boundary cooling uh or what happened 01:34:34.060 --> 01:34:37.229 next ? Yes , I continued the boundary 01:34:37.240 --> 01:34:40.169 cooling . I don't know for how long , 01:34:41.470 --> 01:34:45.169 but uh I stopped this only when uh 01:34:45.919 --> 01:34:48.819 chief mate uh uh at , at some point , 01:34:48.830 --> 01:34:51.899 uh a lot of uh firemen were on board 01:34:52.649 --> 01:34:55.879 and uh were already going inside using 01:34:55.890 --> 01:34:59.450 the , the staircase uh from deck uh 12 . 01:35:00.270 --> 01:35:04.169 So after this point , uh while 01:35:04.180 --> 01:35:06.236 we were doing the boundary cooling , 01:35:06.236 --> 01:35:08.291 chief mate , which was uh there with 01:35:08.291 --> 01:35:11.149 the uh with the firemen near the , near 01:35:11.160 --> 01:35:14.700 the staircase . I don't know why he had 01:35:14.709 --> 01:35:18.200 to leave his position to go somewhere 01:35:18.209 --> 01:35:20.487 in the other decks . I don't know what , 01:35:20.487 --> 01:35:24.240 for what reason . And at 01:35:24.250 --> 01:35:27.270 this moment , captain was uh asking a 01:35:27.279 --> 01:35:30.819 question , what is the situation and so 01:35:30.830 --> 01:35:34.430 on and nobody was there to , to reply 01:35:34.439 --> 01:35:37.189 because we were only doing uh boundary 01:35:37.200 --> 01:35:40.729 cool at this moment . It's when I uh I 01:35:40.740 --> 01:35:43.109 replied to captain , we chief mate is 01:35:43.120 --> 01:35:46.290 not there or nobody is there from our 01:35:46.299 --> 01:35:49.990 crew to , to speak 01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:53.169 directly with the , the fireman . And 01:35:53.180 --> 01:35:55.890 uh I asked permission from him to , to 01:35:55.899 --> 01:35:58.209 go there and he granted me the po the , 01:35:58.220 --> 01:36:01.669 the permission to go there . So this is 01:36:01.680 --> 01:36:05.089 when I uh left my duties as a team 01:36:05.100 --> 01:36:07.700 leader for boundary cooling and I went 01:36:07.709 --> 01:36:10.169 uh there to be the connection between 01:36:10.580 --> 01:36:12.729 the bridge and the , the firemen 01:36:14.259 --> 01:36:17.100 and uh Lieutenant Reid , if you could 01:36:17.109 --> 01:36:19.220 bring up , I'm sorry , bring up Coast 01:36:19.220 --> 01:36:22.180 Guard exhibit seven B again , this time , 01:36:22.189 --> 01:36:24.859 the page with deck 12 on it 01:36:26.180 --> 01:36:28.859 or what I believe is Y de 12 . 01:36:30.180 --> 01:36:33.640 Uh So Mr Chuma uh on , on this diagram , 01:36:33.970 --> 01:36:36.160 where were you located when you were 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:39.959 doing the boundary cooling ? So 01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:43.100 I was in the starboard side from uh 01:36:43.109 --> 01:36:45.720 from the center line to starboard side 01:36:45.729 --> 01:36:49.149 somewhere there around , let's say 01:36:49.160 --> 01:36:52.959 around to frame 25 like this 25 between 01:36:52.970 --> 01:36:56.750 25 and 30 . Ok . And uh is , 01:36:56.759 --> 01:36:59.009 is it disappeared , is the location of 01:36:59.020 --> 01:37:02.870 the no more uh more to the uh to , 01:37:02.879 --> 01:37:05.779 to , to the right uh 01:37:07.509 --> 01:37:10.350 more or less somewhere somewhere here . 01:37:10.359 --> 01:37:14.209 Yes . Ok . Um So that the cursor is 01:37:14.220 --> 01:37:16.399 currently for the record uh located 01:37:17.959 --> 01:37:20.379 around frame 2829 01:37:21.770 --> 01:37:25.060 just to the starboard uh or in this 01:37:25.069 --> 01:37:26.979 image below uh the center line 01:37:29.899 --> 01:37:32.129 and where , where was the , where was 01:37:32.140 --> 01:37:34.251 the hose line that you were using for 01:37:34.251 --> 01:37:36.584 boundary calling extending from ? Where , 01:37:36.584 --> 01:37:36.259 where was the hydrant that you were 01:37:36.270 --> 01:37:39.720 connected to ? I don't remember 01:37:39.729 --> 01:37:42.399 where , because for boundary here in 01:37:42.419 --> 01:37:46.149 deck 12 , we were uh 14th 01:37:46.390 --> 01:37:49.439 1 was mine , which was , as I said , 01:37:49.450 --> 01:37:52.399 somewhere around 2729 . Frame 01:37:52.720 --> 01:37:56.470 one . team was , uh , doing , uh , 01:37:56.479 --> 01:37:59.479 boundary cooling , uh , from the top of 01:37:59.490 --> 01:38:02.229 the , of the water tight door there . 01:38:02.240 --> 01:38:05.080 They were exactly on the top and one 01:38:05.089 --> 01:38:07.660 another team was , uh , near us , let's 01:38:07.669 --> 01:38:11.229 say around frame 20 between 2025 01:38:11.580 --> 01:38:14.479 and the one team at some point , but it 01:38:14.490 --> 01:38:17.200 was the fourth one was , uh , somewhere 01:38:17.209 --> 01:38:20.720 between 5060 . And now I don't 01:38:20.729 --> 01:38:23.850 remember where we , which hydrant we 01:38:23.859 --> 01:38:27.450 used . Ok , because we had many , many 01:38:27.459 --> 01:38:30.520 horses , uh , connected to each other . 01:38:30.529 --> 01:38:33.509 We had from deck 11 . We had from deck , 01:38:33.520 --> 01:38:36.089 uh , 12 . I don't remember all of them 01:38:36.100 --> 01:38:39.359 where , where we connected them . Ok . 01:38:39.879 --> 01:38:42.930 And for boundary cooling , uh , we're 01:38:42.939 --> 01:38:46.160 all four teams spraying the deck of , 01:38:46.169 --> 01:38:49.089 of 12 . So 01:38:50.109 --> 01:38:53.620 my team and the one located somewhere , 01:38:53.629 --> 01:38:57.029 uh , in frame 1220 we were , we were 01:38:57.040 --> 01:38:59.660 spraying , uh , on the deck exactly on 01:38:59.669 --> 01:39:02.729 the deck . The , the , the team which 01:39:02.740 --> 01:39:04.851 was located on top of the , we , uh , 01:39:04.851 --> 01:39:07.589 of the weather tight door . They were 01:39:07.600 --> 01:39:10.459 cooling there from above to , to cut 01:39:10.470 --> 01:39:13.049 the , the smoke . Yeah , to , to keep 01:39:13.060 --> 01:39:16.279 the smoke in , uh , in place . And the , 01:39:16.290 --> 01:39:19.399 the , the team located there between 01:39:19.410 --> 01:39:23.109 5060 . I don't remember what they were 01:39:23.120 --> 01:39:25.399 cooling . We were cooling , uh , as I 01:39:25.410 --> 01:39:29.209 said , my team and the , the one near 01:39:29.220 --> 01:39:31.359 us , we were cooling the , the floor 01:39:31.370 --> 01:39:34.330 and the cars , of course , but this was 01:39:34.339 --> 01:39:37.910 our , uh , our duty to pull . Ok . 01:39:38.520 --> 01:39:40.742 Um , and you said there was a team over 01:39:40.742 --> 01:39:42.909 at the water tight door . Um , is , is 01:39:42.909 --> 01:39:45.660 that the door at the top of the vehicle 01:39:45.669 --> 01:39:49.259 ramp ? Yes , they were there on top of 01:39:49.270 --> 01:39:51.430 that one . Ok . And , and they were 01:39:51.439 --> 01:39:53.830 spraying towards the opening of the 01:39:53.839 --> 01:39:57.290 door . Is that correct ? Uh , they were 01:39:57.299 --> 01:39:59.939 spraying actually between the water 01:39:59.950 --> 01:40:03.189 tight door and the , the , the walls , 01:40:03.200 --> 01:40:05.779 there was some crack , some , uh , some 01:40:05.790 --> 01:40:09.529 space and through that space they were , 01:40:09.540 --> 01:40:11.484 uh , they were spraying everywhere 01:40:11.484 --> 01:40:13.484 because they were , they were doing 01:40:13.484 --> 01:40:15.959 from the top and the , the , the water 01:40:15.970 --> 01:40:18.970 was falling down . Ok . And what were 01:40:18.979 --> 01:40:20.757 they spraying ? Do you , do you 01:40:20.757 --> 01:40:22.923 remember ? Were they spraying with a , 01:40:22.923 --> 01:40:25.310 a straight stream or with a fanned ? 01:40:27.049 --> 01:40:29.229 Oh , I don't remember if they were 01:40:29.240 --> 01:40:33.160 using uh with steam or I , I don't 01:40:33.169 --> 01:40:35.640 remember how they , uh they sprayed 01:40:37.669 --> 01:40:41.580 and then , uh in 01:40:41.589 --> 01:40:43.950 relation to events that occurred on uh 01:40:43.959 --> 01:40:46.680 during the incident . Um How long were 01:40:46.689 --> 01:40:49.620 you ? Uh Oh , I'm sorry , 01:40:50.459 --> 01:40:54.299 you uh you boundary . Cool . And then 01:40:54.310 --> 01:40:56.199 you went over and talked with the 01:40:56.199 --> 01:40:58.421 firefighters . Uh where , where on this 01:40:58.421 --> 01:41:00.088 diagram did you meet with the 01:41:00.088 --> 01:41:03.620 firefighters ? So now from uh 01:41:03.629 --> 01:41:07.259 from where I was before I went uh 01:41:07.270 --> 01:41:10.810 now to portside 01:41:11.770 --> 01:41:14.870 and at some point I was uh 01:41:14.879 --> 01:41:17.970 around , let's say frame 10 01:41:18.759 --> 01:41:22.450 and uh between the staircase and the , 01:41:22.459 --> 01:41:25.229 and the frame 10 somewhere there , but 01:41:25.240 --> 01:41:28.799 near the , near the staircase , not uh 01:41:28.810 --> 01:41:31.950 near the center line . Ok . 01:41:32.870 --> 01:41:35.890 In this position Yes . Ok . Uh , so the , 01:41:35.919 --> 01:41:38.189 for the record , the , the cursor is 01:41:38.200 --> 01:41:42.020 currently located , uh , near the 01:41:42.029 --> 01:41:44.560 point of a green arrow over on the port 01:41:44.569 --> 01:41:47.970 side around frame , uh , between zero 01:41:47.979 --> 01:41:51.450 and five . and at the base of a , 01:41:52.399 --> 01:41:54.930 the left arrow or the aft arrow , uh , 01:41:54.939 --> 01:41:56.939 for the ventilation system pointing 01:41:56.939 --> 01:42:00.830 down . And when you met 01:42:00.839 --> 01:42:02.839 with the firefighters , uh , what , 01:42:02.839 --> 01:42:05.117 what discussion did you have with them ? 01:42:07.020 --> 01:42:10.000 Uh , in the beginning , I went there , 01:42:10.580 --> 01:42:13.200 I asked them about the situation . 01:42:14.560 --> 01:42:17.299 Uh I , if they are still fighting 01:42:17.310 --> 01:42:19.609 because captain needed to know if they 01:42:19.620 --> 01:42:23.080 are still fighting the fire . And I 01:42:23.089 --> 01:42:25.750 don't remember what , uh they told me 01:42:25.759 --> 01:42:29.270 at that point . Uh I remember only 01:42:29.279 --> 01:42:32.430 that , uh , after , after I arrived 01:42:32.439 --> 01:42:35.189 there , one of the , the firefighter , 01:42:35.509 --> 01:42:39.089 I assumed he was uh the leader of 01:42:39.100 --> 01:42:41.459 the , of the team because he was the 01:42:41.470 --> 01:42:43.649 one who was communi communicating with 01:42:43.660 --> 01:42:46.250 the inside the team and giving 01:42:46.259 --> 01:42:49.390 direction . And that's why I called him 01:42:49.399 --> 01:42:52.149 like this . I don't know his name and 01:42:52.160 --> 01:42:55.620 he's wrong or if it's , uh , if it's 01:42:55.629 --> 01:42:58.689 the leader or not , he was the , the 01:42:58.700 --> 01:43:00.644 one who was communicating with the 01:43:00.644 --> 01:43:03.649 inside the guys . He came to me and he 01:43:03.660 --> 01:43:07.490 asked me if we can , uh , if we 01:43:07.500 --> 01:43:11.089 have ventilation there , I told them we 01:43:11.100 --> 01:43:13.569 have ventilation because , uh , they 01:43:13.580 --> 01:43:17.250 want us to , to open the ventilation at 01:43:17.259 --> 01:43:19.640 this moment is the moment when I told 01:43:19.649 --> 01:43:23.100 the , to , to this firemen that , uh if 01:43:23.109 --> 01:43:26.100 we open this , the fire will spread . 01:43:27.529 --> 01:43:31.049 And , uh , he told me , I 01:43:31.060 --> 01:43:34.069 know and , uh , I just want to see how 01:43:34.080 --> 01:43:36.580 the fire will , uh , will react inside . 01:43:36.919 --> 01:43:39.140 I talk to him , I have to inform 01:43:39.149 --> 01:43:42.890 Captain . And after , if he agrees , we 01:43:42.899 --> 01:43:45.819 can , uh , we can do , I , uh , I 01:43:45.830 --> 01:43:48.620 called Captain which was in the bridge 01:43:48.629 --> 01:43:51.459 and , uh , I told him exactly the words 01:43:51.470 --> 01:43:54.270 the firemen uh , told me and the same 01:43:54.279 --> 01:43:58.100 reaction I had had also captain that if 01:43:58.109 --> 01:44:00.850 we open the , the fire will uh , will 01:44:00.859 --> 01:44:03.220 spread . Of course . And I told him 01:44:03.229 --> 01:44:06.229 that this is what they told me . And he 01:44:06.240 --> 01:44:08.770 said , uh , the answer of the captain 01:44:08.779 --> 01:44:12.000 said , tell him again , what are the 01:44:12.009 --> 01:44:15.169 consequences ? And yes , we have . And 01:44:15.180 --> 01:44:18.399 if they really want to be open , I , I 01:44:18.410 --> 01:44:20.649 went back to this guy , I told him what 01:44:20.660 --> 01:44:23.870 captain said and he said , ok , uh , 01:44:23.879 --> 01:44:26.250 only when I tell you because I want to 01:44:26.259 --> 01:44:28.259 see how the fire reacts . And I , I 01:44:28.259 --> 01:44:30.649 told the same thing to , to captain and 01:44:30.660 --> 01:44:32.827 we were in standby at this moment , we 01:44:32.827 --> 01:44:34.882 didn't open nothing for the moment . 01:44:34.919 --> 01:44:38.640 After some time , he came back 01:44:38.649 --> 01:44:41.750 and uh , he told me , ok , now you can 01:44:41.759 --> 01:44:44.810 open the ventilation . I called captain , 01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:48.529 captain , uh uh understood my message . 01:44:48.540 --> 01:44:50.596 And after this , he opened the , the 01:44:50.596 --> 01:44:54.569 ventilation . So I 01:44:54.580 --> 01:44:56.910 don't know how much time passed after 01:44:56.919 --> 01:44:59.770 uh passed after this , he came to me 01:44:59.779 --> 01:45:02.419 and told me the firemen came to me and 01:45:02.430 --> 01:45:05.160 told me to , to close the ventilation . 01:45:05.439 --> 01:45:08.629 I informed captain he info she closed 01:45:08.640 --> 01:45:12.629 the , the ventilation and uh at uh 01:45:12.640 --> 01:45:15.180 some point , I don't know what happened 01:45:15.189 --> 01:45:17.509 inside . This is the point when I 01:45:17.520 --> 01:45:20.779 understand that uh there is some or 01:45:20.790 --> 01:45:22.901 actually it's the point when I become 01:45:22.901 --> 01:45:24.901 sure that something happened inside 01:45:24.901 --> 01:45:26.930 because this guy came to me again , 01:45:27.000 --> 01:45:30.049 told me to open again , uh because they 01:45:30.060 --> 01:45:33.529 have some uh person missing inside . I 01:45:33.540 --> 01:45:37.359 don't know exactly . Uh Now the 01:45:37.370 --> 01:45:40.790 details and uh she said uh 01:45:41.009 --> 01:45:43.200 that and uh yes , but you are still uh 01:45:43.209 --> 01:45:45.479 fighting the fi uh the , the fire . She 01:45:45.490 --> 01:45:47.323 told me at the moment , they are 01:45:47.323 --> 01:45:50.560 focusing to recover their uh their , 01:45:51.580 --> 01:45:54.759 their crew , their member , I informed 01:45:54.770 --> 01:45:57.399 the captain about this situation and we 01:45:57.410 --> 01:46:00.890 opened again the , the ventilations . 01:46:00.899 --> 01:46:04.700 And at this moment , it's when uh a lot 01:46:04.709 --> 01:46:07.439 of uh a lot of black smoke came to the 01:46:07.450 --> 01:46:11.370 area where we , where we work and 01:46:11.379 --> 01:46:13.970 all of us in me , including me and the , 01:46:13.979 --> 01:46:17.740 the , the firefighters . Well , 01:46:17.750 --> 01:46:20.589 we had to retreat somewhere in the 01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:24.470 after part . Where was the a zone 01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:27.259 without uh smoke near the , the flag 01:46:27.270 --> 01:46:29.490 where we had the , the flag in the 01:46:29.500 --> 01:46:33.459 after part and , and the first time . 01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:35.862 So if I'm understanding you correctly , 01:46:35.862 --> 01:46:37.751 ventilation was turned on twice , 01:46:37.751 --> 01:46:40.120 that's correct . The first time that 01:46:40.129 --> 01:46:42.459 the ventilation was turned on , uh did 01:46:42.470 --> 01:46:44.859 black smoke come out to where you were 01:46:44.870 --> 01:46:47.479 in front of those vents ? No , except 01:46:47.490 --> 01:46:50.479 for the , the smoke which was coming 01:46:50.490 --> 01:46:53.879 from the ramp , but this exists uh 01:46:53.890 --> 01:46:57.240 existed also before opening this no 01:46:57.250 --> 01:46:59.306 smoke . First time , only the second 01:46:59.306 --> 01:47:01.472 time was full and we had to retreat uh 01:47:01.472 --> 01:47:04.470 to near the flag near the daft part of 01:47:04.479 --> 01:47:06.646 the vessel where the flag is located . 01:47:07.080 --> 01:47:10.120 Ok . And when both , both times when 01:47:10.129 --> 01:47:12.200 the ventilation was turned on , were 01:47:12.209 --> 01:47:14.740 you able to hear that it was on 01:47:16.660 --> 01:47:19.680 at the mo uh , now , I don't remember 01:47:19.770 --> 01:47:23.770 if , uh , I heard or not be 01:47:23.779 --> 01:47:26.759 because as I said , was , uh , a lot of , 01:47:26.770 --> 01:47:29.750 uh , a lot of noise from everywhere . 01:47:30.049 --> 01:47:33.959 And also the , everybody was shouting . 01:47:33.970 --> 01:47:36.229 Also , I could hear the radio , some , 01:47:36.240 --> 01:47:38.479 somebody was speaking in the radios , 01:47:38.490 --> 01:47:41.759 like uh the , the inciting with 01:47:41.770 --> 01:47:44.319 the , with the , the , the leader and 01:47:44.330 --> 01:47:47.569 everybody was uh shouting there . So I 01:47:47.580 --> 01:47:50.770 don't know . And I don't remember if I 01:47:50.779 --> 01:47:53.979 heard or not the ventilation . Ok . So 01:47:53.990 --> 01:47:56.157 the , the first time , how do you know 01:47:56.157 --> 01:47:58.520 the ventilation was actually turned on ? 01:47:59.490 --> 01:48:02.990 Because , uh , captain informed me that 01:48:03.000 --> 01:48:06.529 he switched on the ventilation . Ok . 01:48:08.680 --> 01:48:11.339 And , uh , after I went to the , to , 01:48:11.350 --> 01:48:14.350 to , to the fireman and told him we 01:48:14.359 --> 01:48:15.970 opened , we , we started the 01:48:15.970 --> 01:48:18.081 ventilation and she said , ok , so he 01:48:18.081 --> 01:48:20.192 was aware because after he told me to 01:48:20.192 --> 01:48:23.000 close them . Ok . And , and the 01:48:23.009 --> 01:48:25.439 firefighter that you had , uh , the 01:48:25.450 --> 01:48:28.279 conversation with both times about 01:48:28.290 --> 01:48:30.299 opening up the or turning on the 01:48:30.310 --> 01:48:32.209 ventilation , was that the same 01:48:32.220 --> 01:48:36.069 firefighter Yes , both times was the 01:48:36.080 --> 01:48:39.740 same . And then that firefighter , uh , 01:48:39.750 --> 01:48:43.080 did you ever see him go down into , uh , 01:48:43.089 --> 01:48:45.620 the , that port stairwell or was he 01:48:45.629 --> 01:48:49.029 always on deck 12 with you ? No , he , 01:48:49.040 --> 01:48:51.740 uh , from the moment I arrived there 01:48:51.750 --> 01:48:54.850 until I left , uh , this area , he was 01:48:54.859 --> 01:48:58.160 always there . Ok . He never went 01:48:58.169 --> 01:49:02.089 inside . Ok . And as far as , 01:49:02.100 --> 01:49:04.169 uh , the ability to communicate with 01:49:04.180 --> 01:49:06.279 him , uh , did , were you able to 01:49:06.290 --> 01:49:08.512 understand what he was saying ? And did 01:49:08.512 --> 01:49:10.568 you feel he understood what you were 01:49:10.568 --> 01:49:14.009 saying ? Yes . Because every time she , 01:49:14.020 --> 01:49:16.950 she told me something , I repeated his 01:49:16.959 --> 01:49:20.069 command and he told me , yes , that's 01:49:20.080 --> 01:49:22.979 correct . What , uh , what , uh , what 01:49:22.990 --> 01:49:25.479 I understand . And after that , uh , he 01:49:25.490 --> 01:49:27.839 also understood because he told me yes , 01:49:27.899 --> 01:49:31.410 open when , only when , uh , when I 01:49:31.419 --> 01:49:34.410 tell you to open because , uh , his uh , 01:49:34.419 --> 01:49:37.310 question was , do you have ? And can 01:49:37.319 --> 01:49:40.700 you use it ? And I had to inform master 01:49:40.709 --> 01:49:42.876 and with his , uh , provement . Yeah , 01:49:42.876 --> 01:49:46.520 I can , we can , uh , we can start . 01:49:46.529 --> 01:49:48.970 And I told him I told him this and she 01:49:48.979 --> 01:49:51.250 said , ok , open only when I tell you 01:49:51.490 --> 01:49:55.180 to open to switch on . Ok . And 01:49:55.189 --> 01:49:57.859 when the ventilation was turned on , uh , 01:49:57.870 --> 01:50:00.680 did you notice the conditions at the 01:50:00.970 --> 01:50:03.479 vehicle ramp ? Watertight door ever 01:50:03.490 --> 01:50:04.100 change ? 01:50:07.509 --> 01:50:11.299 No becau iii I can't say this because I 01:50:11.310 --> 01:50:14.839 was always facing the , the staircase . 01:50:14.850 --> 01:50:17.629 Where was the , the , the , the fireman ? 01:50:17.930 --> 01:50:20.720 And now I don't remember if I was 01:50:20.729 --> 01:50:23.007 looking also in the opposite direction . 01:50:23.007 --> 01:50:25.959 Most of the time I was uh looking at uh 01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:28.720 the the fireman , the team leader 01:50:29.020 --> 01:50:31.399 because if she had some comments for me 01:50:31.410 --> 01:50:35.270 to be there and uh to reply or to 01:50:35.279 --> 01:50:38.879 ask him for details . Ok . 01:50:39.200 --> 01:50:43.120 And uh what were , what were the 01:50:43.129 --> 01:50:47.020 conditions at the opening to the the 01:50:47.029 --> 01:50:49.089 port as staircase ? Uh What were the 01:50:49.100 --> 01:50:52.669 conditions there uh 01:50:52.680 --> 01:50:55.779 around the door was very busy . I mean , 01:50:55.790 --> 01:50:59.279 there were a lot of uh firemen , uh 01:50:59.290 --> 01:51:02.600 some uh fully equipped with 01:51:02.609 --> 01:51:06.399 mask and uh the others probably only to 01:51:06.410 --> 01:51:09.419 assist them . I don't know their uh 01:51:09.430 --> 01:51:12.879 their work . Uh It was very uh 01:51:12.890 --> 01:51:15.959 very uh busy there , as I said , 01:51:16.379 --> 01:51:20.000 and I couldn't uh see a lot of things 01:51:20.009 --> 01:51:23.390 there . I let them do their job and 01:51:23.399 --> 01:51:25.649 only uh seized them if they need my , 01:51:25.660 --> 01:51:28.250 uh if they need my help with something . 01:51:28.750 --> 01:51:30.806 Ok . Did , did you observe any smoke 01:51:30.806 --> 01:51:34.180 coming out of the port a stairwell ? 01:51:35.950 --> 01:51:39.910 Uh There , I never saw any smoke from 01:51:39.919 --> 01:51:42.459 the staircase when they opened the , 01:51:42.470 --> 01:51:45.069 the door ? I , I never saw smoke from 01:51:45.080 --> 01:51:47.700 uh from the staircase . Ok . And did 01:51:47.709 --> 01:51:50.459 those condition conditions ever change ? 01:51:50.470 --> 01:51:52.692 Uh when the ventilation was turned on ? 01:51:55.490 --> 01:51:59.229 Uh So after we opened the second 01:51:59.240 --> 01:52:01.589 time , the , the ventilation and a lot 01:52:01.600 --> 01:52:04.390 of smoke came and uh covered this area . 01:52:04.649 --> 01:52:07.740 We had to retreat and by retreat , uh 01:52:07.919 --> 01:52:10.770 we climb on top of the , of the cargo . 01:52:10.779 --> 01:52:13.129 Yes . And we have to , to pass through 01:52:13.140 --> 01:52:15.251 the top of the car to reach the , the 01:52:15.251 --> 01:52:19.029 flag area . So at this moment , I never 01:52:19.040 --> 01:52:21.850 checked to see who's going inside the , 01:52:21.859 --> 01:52:24.169 who's using the staircase or who's not 01:52:24.180 --> 01:52:26.513 using . And what is the condition there ? 01:52:26.629 --> 01:52:28.890 We just arrived , as I said , somewhere 01:52:28.899 --> 01:52:32.330 in the park near the flag . And uh the 01:52:32.339 --> 01:52:35.399 next thing I uh I remember happened , 01:52:35.669 --> 01:52:37.990 Captain called me through , through the 01:52:38.000 --> 01:52:41.609 radio and asked me uh to , to retreat 01:52:41.620 --> 01:52:43.787 from there because it's dangerous . Uh 01:52:43.787 --> 01:52:46.180 He saw also the smoke and I told him we 01:52:46.189 --> 01:52:48.609 are in a safe zone for the moment . If 01:52:48.620 --> 01:52:50.676 become more dangerous , I will leave 01:52:50.676 --> 01:52:53.500 this area and uh leave only the , the 01:52:53.509 --> 01:52:56.220 firemen to do their job because as I 01:52:56.229 --> 01:52:58.680 said , a lot of smoke came to his side 01:52:58.689 --> 01:53:02.540 when we OK . And you said you retreated 01:53:02.549 --> 01:53:04.716 to the area where the flag was on , on 01:53:04.716 --> 01:53:06.827 the image that I believe should still 01:53:06.827 --> 01:53:09.049 be on your screen . Uh Where , where is 01:53:09.049 --> 01:53:12.979 that located ? So around frame 01:53:12.990 --> 01:53:16.410 five at uh near the , the center line , 01:53:17.410 --> 01:53:20.459 some were there in this area more or 01:53:20.470 --> 01:53:24.089 less . OK . Uh So as , 01:53:25.729 --> 01:53:28.120 as described by the , the witness , um 01:53:28.430 --> 01:53:30.652 the cursor is currently over the center 01:53:30.652 --> 01:53:32.597 line at approximately frame five . 01:53:34.729 --> 01:53:37.279 OK . Um And so when , when you retreat , 01:53:37.290 --> 01:53:39.346 once you retreated to that spot , uh 01:53:39.346 --> 01:53:43.299 what did you do then I was there 01:53:43.310 --> 01:53:47.109 in standby and uh as I said , 01:53:47.120 --> 01:53:50.430 uh at this uh moment , 01:53:51.040 --> 01:53:54.250 uh I heard through one of the radio , 01:53:54.259 --> 01:53:57.490 uh not our but uh of the firemen that 01:53:57.500 --> 01:54:01.000 they find uh one body which was 01:54:01.009 --> 01:54:04.500 missing . After uh this , I heard that 01:54:04.509 --> 01:54:07.879 uh another person uh is missing 01:54:07.970 --> 01:54:10.870 but uh returning to the first body , I 01:54:10.879 --> 01:54:14.750 was there waiting for uh to help them 01:54:14.759 --> 01:54:17.189 to help the firemen . In any case I can , 01:54:17.200 --> 01:54:20.919 I could . And uh at some 01:54:20.930 --> 01:54:24.040 time , the uh the the rescue team 01:54:24.049 --> 01:54:27.129 arrived with , with uh with one body , 01:54:27.140 --> 01:54:30.899 one Caucasian . It was the 01:54:30.910 --> 01:54:34.910 first one . Ok . And here they start 01:54:34.919 --> 01:54:37.319 their procedures with uh first aid . 01:54:37.330 --> 01:54:39.390 And uh I , I didn't get too close 01:54:39.399 --> 01:54:41.790 because it was again busy full of 01:54:41.799 --> 01:54:44.540 people which , and I let them do their 01:54:44.549 --> 01:54:48.109 uh their job . Ok . And then du during 01:54:48.160 --> 01:54:50.299 the rescue operations , uh what were 01:54:50.310 --> 01:54:54.109 you doing by rescue 01:54:54.120 --> 01:54:56.231 operation after they leave the body ? 01:54:56.580 --> 01:55:00.450 Yes . So I was very in stand by 01:55:00.950 --> 01:55:04.859 uh at some point , 01:55:04.870 --> 01:55:08.109 somebody from , from there , from the 01:55:08.120 --> 01:55:11.819 firemen came to me and asked me , uh 01:55:11.830 --> 01:55:14.410 if we can , uh how they can lower the 01:55:14.419 --> 01:55:17.259 body because they needed to , to , to 01:55:17.270 --> 01:55:19.979 bring the body down uh to put it in the 01:55:19.990 --> 01:55:23.040 ambulance . And uh and I told them that 01:55:23.049 --> 01:55:25.120 we have a rene the provision rene 01:55:26.919 --> 01:55:29.540 and they told me if we can use uh this , 01:55:30.060 --> 01:55:33.169 I asked captain uh uh uh by radio again , 01:55:33.180 --> 01:55:35.930 I told him the situation and he told me 01:55:35.939 --> 01:55:38.640 that , uh first of all , we need to see 01:55:38.649 --> 01:55:40.950 if the , the crane is still working 01:55:40.959 --> 01:55:43.470 because it's electrical . Uh we had 01:55:43.479 --> 01:55:45.850 fire on board so we don't know this yet . 01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:49.750 Uh And I had to , to stand by for a 01:55:49.759 --> 01:55:52.220 while for the , for the , the response 01:55:52.229 --> 01:55:55.279 from him if it's working or not , as I 01:55:55.290 --> 01:55:58.560 know . Uh And I heard in the , in the 01:55:58.569 --> 01:56:01.790 radio at some point she uh they needed 01:56:01.799 --> 01:56:04.100 the key to , to switch on the , the 01:56:04.109 --> 01:56:06.299 power for the crane . The key was 01:56:06.310 --> 01:56:09.759 located in the store in uh deck 11 . 01:56:10.450 --> 01:56:13.310 So Boston was sent there fully equipped 01:56:13.319 --> 01:56:15.379 with the fire suit to take the key . 01:56:15.660 --> 01:56:17.649 After that , they told me that the 01:56:17.660 --> 01:56:21.279 crane , it's uh it's working . And uh I 01:56:21.290 --> 01:56:24.379 talked to the guys , but before this , 01:56:24.580 --> 01:56:27.299 there was another thing , uh uh I 01:56:27.310 --> 01:56:29.939 remember that I saw down on shore one 01:56:29.950 --> 01:56:32.879 helicopter and I asked uh this guy 01:56:32.890 --> 01:56:35.112 which told me about the crane . I asked 01:56:35.112 --> 01:56:36.939 him why you are not using the 01:56:36.950 --> 01:56:39.149 helicopter . It's more easier . It's 01:56:39.160 --> 01:56:42.819 faster because I , if you have a fire 01:56:42.830 --> 01:56:45.009 on board the chance of the crane to 01:56:45.020 --> 01:56:48.189 work , it's 5050 . And she told me they 01:56:48.200 --> 01:56:51.240 already called for the helicopter , but 01:56:51.250 --> 01:56:53.709 the helicopter , it doesn't have uh 01:56:55.259 --> 01:56:57.759 the proper equipment . I don't remember 01:56:57.770 --> 01:57:00.470 now what she said . Uh she said that 01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:02.535 they don't have something to pick up 01:57:02.535 --> 01:57:05.799 the , the body . And uh she , she will 01:57:05.810 --> 01:57:08.509 uh the helicopter is there just to , to 01:57:08.520 --> 01:57:10.839 take the body after we lower it . 01:57:13.029 --> 01:57:16.330 Ok . Um And then were were they able to 01:57:16.339 --> 01:57:18.910 lower uh the firefighter down using the 01:57:18.919 --> 01:57:22.629 crane ? Yes , I , I received a message 01:57:22.640 --> 01:57:24.529 from captain , but the crane it's 01:57:24.529 --> 01:57:26.696 working . I informed the guys and they 01:57:26.696 --> 01:57:29.509 told me to , to show the way to the 01:57:29.520 --> 01:57:32.709 crane . I showed them the way to the 01:57:32.720 --> 01:57:34.560 crane . And uh they were , they 01:57:34.569 --> 01:57:38.229 prepared the , the crane and the after 01:57:38.240 --> 01:57:40.859 they lowered the body , the fourth body . 01:57:41.319 --> 01:57:44.109 OK . Um And then uh 01:57:45.540 --> 01:57:47.707 what I what hap walk me through , what 01:57:47.707 --> 01:57:50.959 happened next ? So 01:57:51.250 --> 01:57:54.850 before lowering some of one 01:57:55.069 --> 01:57:57.620 fireman , I don't remember which one 01:57:58.259 --> 01:58:02.009 asked me if we can uh use the reflector 01:58:02.020 --> 01:58:05.209 or lights . And I said , I told him we 01:58:05.220 --> 01:58:08.959 can use it . We have one reflector 01:58:08.970 --> 01:58:11.839 near the , the wing of the bridge . We 01:58:11.850 --> 01:58:15.470 used that they lower the first 01:58:15.479 --> 01:58:18.279 body . I stayed there to recover myself 01:58:18.290 --> 01:58:21.859 after the , after my exposure to smoke 01:58:21.870 --> 01:58:24.970 and heat and everything . And at some 01:58:24.979 --> 01:58:27.770 point they uh they bring there to the 01:58:27.779 --> 01:58:30.112 crane , they bring also the second body , 01:58:30.112 --> 01:58:32.709 which was one a for American . 01:58:33.819 --> 01:58:37.450 And uh they just uh said that uh 01:58:37.459 --> 01:58:40.919 this uh this guy was already dead . And 01:58:40.930 --> 01:58:42.979 again , they asked my help with the 01:58:42.990 --> 01:58:46.959 light to , to do the procedures with , 01:58:46.970 --> 01:58:49.810 uh I don't know the American procedures 01:58:49.819 --> 01:58:52.041 of the body was covered by the American 01:58:52.041 --> 01:58:55.930 flag uh downward people . And uh I said , 01:58:55.939 --> 01:58:58.319 OK , I can put the , the light on , on 01:58:58.330 --> 01:59:00.790 the body on top of the body and it's 01:59:00.799 --> 01:59:04.169 not a problem this one for me . Ok . Uh 01:59:04.180 --> 01:59:06.347 And then after they lowered the second 01:59:06.347 --> 01:59:09.399 uh body off , uh what did you do ? Then 01:59:11.069 --> 01:59:14.250 after that , I recovered again myself 01:59:14.259 --> 01:59:16.859 and I continue with the bo boundary 01:59:16.870 --> 01:59:19.490 cooling in the same position . I was in 01:59:19.500 --> 01:59:21.410 the first uh time index to have 01:59:21.419 --> 01:59:25.109 somewhere uh its frame 2520 somewhere 01:59:25.120 --> 01:59:27.176 there . I , I went back to that team 01:59:27.176 --> 01:59:30.609 again . Ok . Um And was 01:59:30.620 --> 01:59:33.049 there , was there a lot of water , uh , 01:59:33.069 --> 01:59:36.169 built up or standing on , on deck 12 at 01:59:36.180 --> 01:59:39.370 that point ? Yes , there was the water 01:59:39.379 --> 01:59:42.379 on the deck 12 ? Ok . And was it 01:59:42.589 --> 01:59:45.750 covering the entire , was there water 01:59:45.759 --> 01:59:48.399 covering the entire deck or was it in , 01:59:49.319 --> 01:59:52.149 uh , pockets or small areas of 01:59:53.299 --> 01:59:56.390 the , the , the aft part of the vessel ? 01:59:56.410 --> 01:59:59.459 All the aft part was uh full of water ? 02:00:00.470 --> 02:00:04.009 Ok . Um , and does deck 12 02:00:04.020 --> 02:00:05.870 have a combing around it ? 02:00:07.529 --> 02:00:10.930 Study does , does the deck 12 have a , 02:00:10.939 --> 02:00:14.589 a combing , uh , around it or a , a 02:00:14.600 --> 02:00:16.711 piece of metal that comes up from the 02:00:16.711 --> 02:00:18.711 deck that would hold the water in ? 02:00:21.290 --> 02:00:24.850 To be honest , I don't know why the 02:00:24.859 --> 02:00:27.709 water was , uh , was keeping on the 02:00:27.720 --> 02:00:29.910 vessel . I don't know this , uh , 02:00:29.919 --> 02:00:33.220 reason also . Now , I , I don't know 02:00:33.229 --> 02:00:37.140 why it's like it was there . So , I 02:00:37.149 --> 02:00:39.069 don't know . Ok . 02:00:41.319 --> 02:00:44.990 Um , do you know our own , uh , 02:00:45.000 --> 02:00:47.120 on deck 12 ? Do you know , are there 02:00:47.129 --> 02:00:50.549 are s are there scuppers or drains , uh , 02:00:50.560 --> 02:00:53.680 for like rainwater ? Yes , they are , 02:00:54.419 --> 02:00:58.290 and do you know , uh , were they open 02:00:58.299 --> 02:01:00.410 or were they plugged for being 02:01:00.419 --> 02:01:03.839 important ? I don't know if they were 02:01:03.850 --> 02:01:07.660 opened or not . Uh , I know that I 02:01:07.669 --> 02:01:11.580 never go to check them . I , uh , never , 02:01:11.910 --> 02:01:14.580 uh , I never saw them when I , uh , I , 02:01:14.589 --> 02:01:17.009 in , you know , in this evening , in 02:01:17.020 --> 02:01:19.200 this night when the incident occurred 02:01:19.350 --> 02:01:21.709 because I had other responsibilities . 02:01:21.720 --> 02:01:25.229 So I never go to check them . Ok . But 02:01:25.240 --> 02:01:28.180 yes , they exist all over the , all 02:01:28.189 --> 02:01:31.509 over the deck . Ok . And then did you 02:01:31.520 --> 02:01:33.879 boundary ? Cool from then until , uh , 02:01:33.890 --> 02:01:35.640 the captain ordered , uh , the 02:01:35.649 --> 02:01:39.470 abandoned ship ? Yes . Ok . 02:01:40.490 --> 02:01:42.799 Um , and , and during that entire time , 02:01:43.140 --> 02:01:46.089 uh , was the water pressure , uh , 02:01:48.040 --> 02:01:50.207 uh , sufficient coming out of the fire 02:01:50.207 --> 02:01:52.609 hoses being used on deck 12 . Yes , 02:01:52.620 --> 02:01:54.759 that's correct . The , the host is at 02:01:54.770 --> 02:01:57.000 least the host , the host which , uh , 02:01:57.009 --> 02:02:00.549 my team and the team near me used I saw 02:02:00.560 --> 02:02:02.759 because they were near me . They , we 02:02:02.770 --> 02:02:04.826 have no problem with the , the , the 02:02:04.826 --> 02:02:07.048 water pressure . Ok . And you still had 02:02:07.048 --> 02:02:09.214 good pressure when you abandoned she ? 02:02:09.310 --> 02:02:12.740 Yes . All right . Uh , thank you , 02:02:12.750 --> 02:02:14.861 Mister Humala . That , that's all the 02:02:14.861 --> 02:02:17.149 questions that I have for you . Um , I , 02:02:17.160 --> 02:02:19.271 I know that was , uh , pretty lengthy 02:02:19.271 --> 02:02:21.493 but I appreciate your time . Uh , we'll 02:02:21.493 --> 02:02:23.549 now offer the opportunity for , uh , 02:02:23.549 --> 02:02:25.604 members of the investigation team to 02:02:25.604 --> 02:02:27.549 ask any follow up questions . Uh , 02:02:27.549 --> 02:02:27.250 Lieutenant Commander Moore , do you 02:02:27.259 --> 02:02:28.981 have any follow up questions ? 02:02:33.580 --> 02:02:36.470 Yes , just a , a few . Um , I'm gonna 02:02:36.479 --> 02:02:38.839 try to keep it in order of your 02:02:38.859 --> 02:02:42.350 testimony to keep organized . Um You 02:02:42.359 --> 02:02:45.069 mentioned this was your first time on 02:02:45.080 --> 02:02:47.890 the ship when you came on board in 02:02:47.899 --> 02:02:50.899 April . What was the initial on 02:02:50.910 --> 02:02:53.490 boarding process as far as training or 02:02:53.500 --> 02:02:57.359 checklist or walkthroughs ? So 02:02:57.799 --> 02:03:00.569 I will resume only to , to this vessel , 02:03:00.580 --> 02:03:03.470 but this is uh general for every vessel 02:03:03.479 --> 02:03:05.423 when , when you come first time on 02:03:05.423 --> 02:03:08.740 every vessel , even if you've been on 02:03:08.750 --> 02:03:10.740 the vessel before , it's the same 02:03:10.750 --> 02:03:14.270 procedure . The the safety officer uh 02:03:14.290 --> 02:03:17.609 must do you the Familiarization of the 02:03:17.620 --> 02:03:21.600 vessel . And after that , uh of 02:03:21.609 --> 02:03:24.790 course , uh they take your uh your 02:03:24.799 --> 02:03:28.580 documents . Uh Now this part of the 02:03:28.589 --> 02:03:31.290 document is my job . But when I came , 02:03:31.299 --> 02:03:33.529 there was the other third officer which 02:03:33.540 --> 02:03:35.651 was uh making the Familiarization for 02:03:35.651 --> 02:03:38.160 the third officer uh job and she was 02:03:38.169 --> 02:03:40.580 the one who took my documents license 02:03:40.589 --> 02:03:42.850 and she made copy and uh give to 02:03:42.859 --> 02:03:46.479 captain what uh what he needed . And as 02:03:46.490 --> 02:03:49.640 for the safety part , as I said , uh is 02:03:49.649 --> 02:03:52.160 responsible the safety officer and 02:03:52.169 --> 02:03:56.109 every time you join a vessel , uh 02:03:56.700 --> 02:03:58.799 they uh he must uh make you the 02:03:58.810 --> 02:04:02.100 Familiarization of the vessel need to 02:04:02.109 --> 02:04:03.609 help . Also , in my case , 02:04:06.189 --> 02:04:09.430 does that uh Familiarization include um 02:04:10.669 --> 02:04:12.558 the firefighting equipment , life 02:04:12.558 --> 02:04:14.780 saving equipment . Can you just tell us 02:04:14.780 --> 02:04:17.370 in general what the Familiarization was 02:04:17.379 --> 02:04:21.200 about ? The Familiarization was uh was 02:04:21.229 --> 02:04:23.600 uh in the Familiarization was also 02:04:23.609 --> 02:04:26.589 included the the fire uh the fire 02:04:26.600 --> 02:04:29.669 equipment . Uh , the location of the 02:04:29.680 --> 02:04:31.680 fire equipment , of course was uh , 02:04:31.680 --> 02:04:35.000 included , uh the location of the , 02:04:36.020 --> 02:04:38.250 of the hydrants of the horses , of the 02:04:38.259 --> 02:04:42.020 fire horses . And , uh , of course , uh , 02:04:42.029 --> 02:04:44.509 the ma the location of the , of the 02:04:44.520 --> 02:04:48.020 master station and the , the my 02:04:48.029 --> 02:04:50.390 role or in the master list , 02:04:51.109 --> 02:04:55.049 uh , disregarding with , uh , with the , 02:04:55.189 --> 02:04:57.040 with the fire , uh , 02:05:00.109 --> 02:05:02.399 with the fire things , what we need to 02:05:02.410 --> 02:05:05.399 know regarding the fire after that . Of 02:05:05.410 --> 02:05:08.770 course , there , uh it's needed to , to 02:05:08.779 --> 02:05:11.930 be shown uh also other things like the 02:05:11.939 --> 02:05:14.370 documents and so on the , the ship's 02:05:14.379 --> 02:05:18.120 documents , the uh the 02:05:18.129 --> 02:05:21.290 equipment in my case because I was new 02:05:21.299 --> 02:05:24.350 and they , they show me uh the position 02:05:24.359 --> 02:05:27.589 in the Great . Thank you . 02:05:27.870 --> 02:05:31.359 Um And then you mentioned your license 02:05:31.370 --> 02:05:33.481 and endorsements . I understand maybe 02:05:33.481 --> 02:05:36.799 those were lost in the fire . Uh Can 02:05:36.810 --> 02:05:38.700 you tell me what flag issued your 02:05:38.709 --> 02:05:41.709 license ? Romanian 02:05:42.149 --> 02:05:45.939 authorities ? But , but because uh so 02:05:46.330 --> 02:05:49.720 for Romanians , uh for us , the 02:05:49.729 --> 02:05:52.879 Romanian , uh the Romanian uh state 02:05:52.890 --> 02:05:56.509 will issue the document . But in Italy , 02:05:56.520 --> 02:05:58.850 because the uh the the vessel was 02:05:58.859 --> 02:06:02.310 Italian flag , uh There is one more 02:06:02.319 --> 02:06:05.819 rule , you know , using your uh using 02:06:05.830 --> 02:06:08.560 my Romanian license , they issued also 02:06:08.569 --> 02:06:11.709 Italian uh license . Perfect . Thank 02:06:11.720 --> 02:06:13.879 you . That was the next question . Um 02:06:13.890 --> 02:06:16.520 And then following , as you were 02:06:16.529 --> 02:06:18.696 discussing , you've been to many other 02:06:18.696 --> 02:06:20.740 ports and observed uh loading 02:06:20.750 --> 02:06:24.580 operations in other ports . Have 02:06:24.589 --> 02:06:28.089 you seen any other ports using vehicles 02:06:28.100 --> 02:06:31.629 to push non running vehicles onto 02:06:31.640 --> 02:06:33.770 ships or was there some other way to 02:06:33.779 --> 02:06:37.770 get non running vehicles onto ships if 02:06:37.779 --> 02:06:40.549 I remember correctly ? I 02:06:41.330 --> 02:06:44.939 answered this question and I said , uh 02:06:44.950 --> 02:06:48.430 that they are , if the , if the 02:06:48.439 --> 02:06:50.328 cargo , if the other cars are not 02:06:50.328 --> 02:06:53.660 moving , they were using the box for uh 02:06:53.669 --> 02:06:55.270 for this to push the 02:07:00.009 --> 02:07:02.910 Thank you . And then the last thing 02:07:02.919 --> 02:07:04.779 when you were discussing being a 02:07:04.790 --> 02:07:07.459 liaison with the fire department on 02:07:07.479 --> 02:07:10.680 deck 12 , do you know where the chief 02:07:10.689 --> 02:07:12.689 mate was located during that time ? 02:07:13.930 --> 02:07:16.041 Also to this question , if I remember 02:07:16.041 --> 02:07:19.819 correctly , I answered . But as I said , 02:07:19.830 --> 02:07:22.310 at some point , he had to leave his 02:07:22.319 --> 02:07:24.979 position which was near the staircase 02:07:24.990 --> 02:07:27.939 and he went down in the , in the other 02:07:27.950 --> 02:07:31.720 deck . I don't know the reason . And uh 02:07:31.729 --> 02:07:34.459 as this point is when I master was 02:07:34.470 --> 02:07:36.879 calling , nobody answered and I replied 02:07:36.890 --> 02:07:39.620 to him and he gave me the , the the 02:07:39.629 --> 02:07:41.073 instruction to go there . 02:07:43.279 --> 02:07:45.501 Mhm . Thank you . Uh Commander . That's 02:07:45.501 --> 02:07:49.160 all the questions I have . Ok . Thank 02:07:49.169 --> 02:07:51.336 you . Uh Lieutenant Reid . Do you have 02:07:51.336 --> 02:07:53.930 any follow up questions ? I have no 02:07:53.939 --> 02:07:56.330 follow up questions . Ok . Thank you . 02:07:59.540 --> 02:08:01.651 Uh Lieutenant Commander Ward . Do you 02:08:01.651 --> 02:08:04.000 have any follow up questions ? I don't 02:08:04.009 --> 02:08:06.540 have any questions . Thank you . Ok . 02:08:06.549 --> 02:08:10.529 Thank you . And uh 02:08:10.540 --> 02:08:13.109 going to N TSB uh Mr Barnum . Do you 02:08:13.120 --> 02:08:16.490 have any questions ? Uh Yes , Commander , 02:08:16.839 --> 02:08:20.430 uh Mr Chuma Bart Barnum and TSP . You 02:08:20.439 --> 02:08:23.029 hear me ? Ok . Yeah , I hear you very 02:08:23.040 --> 02:08:25.410 well . Ok , thank you . Um 02:08:27.819 --> 02:08:30.319 Talking about the uh the Jeep Pusher 02:08:30.330 --> 02:08:33.859 vehicle . Um You observe smoke was a 02:08:33.870 --> 02:08:36.669 smoker's steam . Did you tell ? As I 02:08:36.680 --> 02:08:40.009 said , uh from the position I was there , 02:08:40.020 --> 02:08:43.819 I saw a , as I said , smoke , white 02:08:43.830 --> 02:08:47.080 smoke . I am not an engineer , so I 02:08:47.089 --> 02:08:49.200 don't , I never approached the car to 02:08:49.200 --> 02:08:51.779 see if it's steam or it's smoke , but 02:08:51.790 --> 02:08:54.100 it uh I interpreted this like white 02:08:54.109 --> 02:08:56.439 smoke . Ok . 02:08:57.879 --> 02:09:00.819 Um And then I just , I'm curious about 02:09:01.419 --> 02:09:03.252 the , the Jeep Pusher vehicle in 02:09:03.259 --> 02:09:07.089 particular . Um So you said this 02:09:07.100 --> 02:09:09.779 incident of the white smoke was in on 02:09:09.790 --> 02:09:12.299 your first watch . Uh You probably 02:09:12.310 --> 02:09:14.310 already said it and I apologize for 02:09:14.310 --> 02:09:16.310 making you repeat yourself . Was it 02:09:16.310 --> 02:09:18.477 early in your watch or was it , was it 02:09:18.477 --> 02:09:20.532 at 0 800 or when did you notice that 02:09:20.532 --> 02:09:21.532 fire or smoke ? 02:09:25.200 --> 02:09:28.759 Uh , as I said before , I don't know , 02:09:28.770 --> 02:09:31.979 I remember it was in my morning watch . 02:09:31.990 --> 02:09:34.509 I don't know at what time I know that 02:09:34.520 --> 02:09:37.089 it was in the morning watch . Ok . And 02:09:37.100 --> 02:09:39.100 then , and you said you saw it like 02:09:39.100 --> 02:09:41.350 operating again in your morning watch . 02:09:41.359 --> 02:09:44.850 I'm just trying to estimate how long 02:09:44.859 --> 02:09:47.310 between that , the incident where you 02:09:47.319 --> 02:09:49.490 saw the smoke and then when you saw it 02:09:49.500 --> 02:09:52.839 operating again also this , I don't 02:09:52.850 --> 02:09:55.399 know because as I said , I saw the car 02:09:55.419 --> 02:09:58.359 at that time , I saw this , uh free 02:09:58.370 --> 02:10:00.592 person in the end , three person were , 02:10:00.592 --> 02:10:03.430 uh taking care . I don't know what they 02:10:03.439 --> 02:10:07.200 did uh , and after came my lie , 02:10:07.359 --> 02:10:10.259 uh , the , the ad there , which I 02:10:10.270 --> 02:10:13.169 believed , I don't know what , uh , job 02:10:13.180 --> 02:10:15.470 he had to do . And after I continue 02:10:15.479 --> 02:10:18.740 with my work and after some time , uh , 02:10:18.750 --> 02:10:21.299 the same in the morning watch , I saw 02:10:21.310 --> 02:10:25.120 the car , uh , being used again without , 02:10:25.129 --> 02:10:28.899 uh , without , uh , without smoke . Ok . 02:10:29.259 --> 02:10:32.310 So when you were relieved by the A B , 02:10:32.569 --> 02:10:36.410 the Jeep was still on the ramp , I 02:10:36.419 --> 02:10:39.080 don't remember this , this , I don't 02:10:39.089 --> 02:10:42.750 remember , I know that only that at 02:10:42.759 --> 02:10:45.669 some time later I saw it working used 02:10:45.680 --> 02:10:49.540 uh being used again . Ok . And how , 02:10:49.549 --> 02:10:51.979 how is it operating ? Uh Could you tell 02:10:51.990 --> 02:10:54.879 if it was operating uh 02:10:55.189 --> 02:10:57.411 effectively or was it struggling in any 02:10:57.411 --> 02:11:01.240 way to , to perform its operation ? Uh 02:11:01.250 --> 02:11:03.910 I remember that the Jeep had some uh 02:11:03.919 --> 02:11:07.750 pro problems pushing , but I can't 02:11:07.759 --> 02:11:10.620 say , I don't remember if this uh 02:11:10.629 --> 02:11:13.750 struggling was before or after the , 02:11:13.759 --> 02:11:16.770 the smoke , the white smoke or was also 02:11:16.779 --> 02:11:19.001 before and after , I don't remember , I 02:11:19.001 --> 02:11:21.399 remember I had some problem pushing . I 02:11:21.410 --> 02:11:24.750 mean , it was uh obviously , but 02:11:25.649 --> 02:11:27.950 it's uh how , yeah , just kind of 02:11:27.959 --> 02:11:30.181 elaborate on that . How , how could you 02:11:30.181 --> 02:11:32.403 tell it was having a problem ? Was it , 02:11:32.403 --> 02:11:34.830 what was it doing ? First of all , uh 02:11:34.839 --> 02:11:38.779 the , the , the SUV had the Jeep 02:11:38.790 --> 02:11:42.470 was a small car and he was pushing like 02:11:42.479 --> 02:11:44.535 these American trucks . I don't know 02:11:44.535 --> 02:11:47.560 how they are called . You have some 02:11:47.569 --> 02:11:51.250 kind of trucks and these are heavier 02:11:51.259 --> 02:11:54.390 for sure than the , than the , the jeep 02:11:54.399 --> 02:11:57.350 and on the ramp , they were forcing the 02:11:57.359 --> 02:11:59.819 engine , you could hear the engine to 02:11:59.830 --> 02:12:02.569 the maximum . Ok . And that , so that's 02:12:02.580 --> 02:12:06.319 just on the ramp was uh , yeah . So you 02:12:06.330 --> 02:12:08.750 observed this struggling , as you said , 02:12:08.879 --> 02:12:11.290 just on the ramp coming from shore to 02:12:11.299 --> 02:12:13.410 deck three . How about , did you ever 02:12:13.410 --> 02:12:15.466 observe it going on any of the other 02:12:15.466 --> 02:12:17.799 ramps having the same struggling issues ? 02:12:17.870 --> 02:12:21.750 No , as I said , most part of the time 02:12:21.759 --> 02:12:23.990 I stayed in deck free in the , in the 02:12:24.000 --> 02:12:26.779 after part of the , of the vessel and 02:12:26.790 --> 02:12:29.799 already in the cargo control room . And 02:12:29.810 --> 02:12:33.250 when I left my , uh my position 02:12:33.259 --> 02:12:36.120 and uh went to , to , to the upper uh 02:12:36.129 --> 02:12:39.109 decks , I don't remember if I sold the 02:12:39.120 --> 02:12:42.379 car or not . I remember that uh it was 02:12:42.390 --> 02:12:44.640 struggling only in this ramp from deck 02:12:44.649 --> 02:12:46.720 three to deck uh six . 02:12:48.560 --> 02:12:51.049 Ok . Did it ever have to , did it ever 02:12:51.060 --> 02:12:54.160 stop and then have to back up and , and 02:12:54.169 --> 02:12:55.399 gain speed or 02:12:58.370 --> 02:13:01.770 no ? Uh The only problem I saw it was 02:13:01.779 --> 02:13:04.600 that it was very slowly climbing the 02:13:04.609 --> 02:13:06.910 ramp and the , the R PM . As I said , 02:13:06.919 --> 02:13:09.859 the engine was used at uh a 02:13:10.629 --> 02:13:13.169 higher uh speed . I mean , they were , 02:13:13.180 --> 02:13:16.310 they , they were using uh the maximum 02:13:16.319 --> 02:13:18.959 force , let's say . And the problem 02:13:18.970 --> 02:13:21.081 with the , with the white uh with the 02:13:21.081 --> 02:13:24.870 white smoke . Ok . How about 02:13:25.169 --> 02:13:27.336 any of the other pusher vehicles ? Did 02:13:27.336 --> 02:13:29.336 you observe any of the other pusher 02:13:29.336 --> 02:13:32.660 vehicles operating on your watch . Yes , 02:13:33.290 --> 02:13:35.770 I saw also other , uh , vehicle in that 02:13:35.779 --> 02:13:38.910 day pushing other , uh , pushing the 02:13:38.939 --> 02:13:41.050 cars . Yes , I saw them . All right . 02:13:41.050 --> 02:13:43.050 Can you briefly describe what those 02:13:43.050 --> 02:13:46.140 pushing vehicles were ? As I said 02:13:46.149 --> 02:13:48.038 before ? I don't know if they are 02:13:48.038 --> 02:13:50.899 called trucks . But , uh , you have , 02:13:50.910 --> 02:13:53.939 you ha I saw , I think another , um , 02:13:53.950 --> 02:13:57.899 another two kind of trucks and , uh , 02:13:58.020 --> 02:14:00.339 the way they were pushing it was not 02:14:00.350 --> 02:14:02.810 the same like the , the , the Jeep . 02:14:02.819 --> 02:14:05.709 That's why I said that the , the Jeep 02:14:05.720 --> 02:14:08.060 was uh struggling with , with the big 02:14:08.069 --> 02:14:10.291 car , ok ? And that , and that's what I 02:14:10.291 --> 02:14:12.402 was trying to get at . You didn't see 02:14:12.402 --> 02:14:14.402 those struggling in the same manner 02:14:14.402 --> 02:14:16.736 that you saw the Jeep struggling . Yeah , 02:14:16.736 --> 02:14:18.902 that's good . All right , perfect . Uh 02:14:18.902 --> 02:14:21.236 That's all the questions I have for you , 02:14:21.236 --> 02:14:23.347 sir . Thank you very much . Welcome . 02:14:25.229 --> 02:14:28.569 Ok . And um M McAtee , I have no 02:14:28.580 --> 02:14:29.729 further questions . 02:14:34.950 --> 02:14:38.540 All right . Thank you . Uh Mr Humala . 02:14:38.549 --> 02:14:40.799 Uh the representatives for the parties 02:14:40.810 --> 02:14:42.866 of interest uh wanna have now have a 02:14:42.866 --> 02:14:44.977 question to or had the opportunity to 02:14:44.977 --> 02:14:47.032 ask you five questions uh as we have 02:14:47.032 --> 02:14:49.779 done with previous witnesses uh in 02:14:49.790 --> 02:14:51.734 order to ensure equitable time and 02:14:51.734 --> 02:14:53.957 opportunity for each party and interest 02:14:53.957 --> 02:14:56.068 to ask questions , uh each party will 02:14:56.068 --> 02:14:58.123 have approximately 10 minutes uh for 02:14:58.123 --> 02:15:00.234 cross examination within the scope of 02:15:00.234 --> 02:15:02.346 the direct examination questions that 02:15:02.346 --> 02:15:04.457 our investigation team has just asked 02:15:04.457 --> 02:15:06.290 uh and relevant to informing the 02:15:06.290 --> 02:15:09.410 purpose of our investigation . Uh , so 02:15:09.470 --> 02:15:10.970 first up , uh , Grimaldi , 02:15:17.339 --> 02:15:19.959 um , Mr Shal , I just have a few follow 02:15:19.970 --> 02:15:22.470 up questions for you regarding when you 02:15:22.479 --> 02:15:25.200 first observed black smoke coming out 02:15:25.209 --> 02:15:28.629 of , uh , the garage door at deck 12 . 02:15:29.299 --> 02:15:32.120 Ok . Uh , you said that it was sometime 02:15:32.129 --> 02:15:34.640 after you came up to deck 12 from deck 02:15:34.649 --> 02:15:38.259 11 , is that right ? Yes . And when you 02:15:38.270 --> 02:15:41.259 came up to deck 11 , you were initially 02:15:41.270 --> 02:15:44.350 doing , um , boundary cooling . Yes . 02:15:44.839 --> 02:15:47.000 And do you know what the firefighters 02:15:47.009 --> 02:15:49.000 were doing while you were doing 02:15:49.009 --> 02:15:51.339 boundary cooling ? With respect to 02:15:51.350 --> 02:15:53.819 going into deck 10 ? 02:15:55.330 --> 02:15:57.609 No , I don't know what they were doing 02:15:57.620 --> 02:16:00.720 in , uh , inside the garage . The first 02:16:00.729 --> 02:16:03.950 two guys , as I said before , they , uh , 02:16:04.189 --> 02:16:07.229 they came in t-shirt , the equipment 02:16:07.240 --> 02:16:09.790 was not prepared to go inside and they , 02:16:09.799 --> 02:16:12.049 when they wanted to go inside the 02:16:12.100 --> 02:16:15.009 through 11 , they wanted to go without 02:16:15.020 --> 02:16:18.319 any mask on the face . Uh , this is 02:16:18.330 --> 02:16:21.709 when I stopped them and , uh , after 02:16:21.720 --> 02:16:24.490 several times we stopped me and captain , 02:16:24.500 --> 02:16:26.333 uh , they keep themselves , uh , 02:16:26.333 --> 02:16:29.529 completely and put the mask on . So , 02:16:29.540 --> 02:16:31.818 uh , my question is a little different . 02:16:31.818 --> 02:16:35.230 So when , when you got to deck 12 and 02:16:35.240 --> 02:16:37.750 were doing boundary cooling at that 02:16:37.759 --> 02:16:40.509 time , you didn't know where the 02:16:40.519 --> 02:16:44.169 firefighters were and in the garage if 02:16:44.179 --> 02:16:46.290 they were in the garage at all . Uh , 02:16:46.360 --> 02:16:48.527 yeah , that's correct . I don't know . 02:16:48.527 --> 02:16:50.527 Uh , when I was in deck 12 , I know 02:16:50.527 --> 02:16:53.000 that a lot of firemen went inside , but 02:16:53.009 --> 02:16:55.629 I don't know what they were doing . Uh , 02:16:55.639 --> 02:16:56.879 and where they are . 02:16:58.829 --> 02:17:01.758 So when you started to observe black 02:17:01.768 --> 02:17:03.879 smoke coming out of the garage door , 02:17:03.978 --> 02:17:06.418 do you know whether that was after the 02:17:06.428 --> 02:17:08.958 firefighters were entering the garage 02:17:10.369 --> 02:17:13.559 or before they entered the garage ? I 02:17:13.639 --> 02:17:16.049 don't remember when I saw the , the 02:17:16.059 --> 02:17:19.559 black fire , uh , because I , uh , I 02:17:19.570 --> 02:17:22.429 didn't saw it in the beginning when I 02:17:22.440 --> 02:17:24.750 arrived . I didn't pay attention if 02:17:24.759 --> 02:17:27.059 it's , uh , if it's smoke there , I 02:17:27.070 --> 02:17:29.237 don't remember . So that's why I can't 02:17:29.237 --> 02:17:32.469 say if the , if the , I , I observed 02:17:32.480 --> 02:17:35.839 the , the , the , the smoke before the , 02:17:36.879 --> 02:17:39.860 the fireman , the inside or I don't 02:17:39.870 --> 02:17:42.790 remember this . Uh going back to the 02:17:42.799 --> 02:17:45.480 conversation that you observed and 02:17:45.490 --> 02:17:47.712 participated in with the firefighters , 02:17:47.712 --> 02:17:50.650 uh trying to go into uh the door at 02:17:50.660 --> 02:17:54.240 deck 11 . Um Can you tell us 02:17:54.250 --> 02:17:56.469 what the captain said to them and what 02:17:56.480 --> 02:18:00.388 they said to the captain ? So 02:18:00.399 --> 02:18:02.829 as I said , first of all , I was the 02:18:02.838 --> 02:18:05.088 one communicating with them . I stopped 02:18:05.098 --> 02:18:09.040 them . Uh And captain was uh in the 02:18:09.169 --> 02:18:12.290 12 above me . First of all , she called 02:18:12.299 --> 02:18:14.410 me and told me , tell them to , don't 02:18:14.410 --> 02:18:17.330 go inside and I told him I already done . 02:18:17.339 --> 02:18:20.209 And after she was starting to shout to 02:18:20.219 --> 02:18:22.108 them , don't go inside because we 02:18:22.108 --> 02:18:24.679 already released the CO2 . He told them 02:18:24.690 --> 02:18:28.339 uh this several times . And uh I 02:18:28.349 --> 02:18:31.480 remember that uh the , the , the 02:18:31.490 --> 02:18:34.739 firemen , they were , 02:18:35.580 --> 02:18:38.000 I don't know if they were angry or not . 02:18:38.360 --> 02:18:41.719 But uh they were at least uh frustrated 02:18:41.730 --> 02:18:44.019 because uh we don't let them go inside . 02:18:44.030 --> 02:18:47.160 So they , they have an attitude towards 02:18:47.169 --> 02:18:50.480 us even if we tried to , to stop them 02:18:50.490 --> 02:18:53.639 to go to , to an incident . 02:18:54.379 --> 02:18:56.323 What did the firefighters say ? If 02:18:56.330 --> 02:18:58.870 anything to the captain during this 02:18:58.879 --> 02:19:02.629 time at this time ? I 02:19:02.639 --> 02:19:04.830 don't remember . I know that they were 02:19:04.839 --> 02:19:08.230 looking at us at him . Uh Captain was 02:19:08.240 --> 02:19:11.549 still shouting and they were like , uh 02:19:11.559 --> 02:19:15.559 looking at him like they don't want 02:19:15.570 --> 02:19:19.389 to do . And after we insisted to them , 02:19:19.400 --> 02:19:21.879 and that's when like they have like an , 02:19:22.110 --> 02:19:25.110 as I said , an angry attitude also , 02:19:25.120 --> 02:19:27.700 they were throwing things on the deck 02:19:27.709 --> 02:19:30.500 and like this . But as I said , I don't 02:19:30.509 --> 02:19:32.565 know if they were angry if they were 02:19:32.565 --> 02:19:36.120 frustrated . Uh Actually they , uh it's 02:19:36.129 --> 02:19:39.639 like , uh we told them to do something 02:19:39.650 --> 02:19:41.969 if they didn't want because we make 02:19:41.980 --> 02:19:44.629 them hard . But in reality , we try to , 02:19:44.639 --> 02:19:46.959 to prevent them to , to go inside in 02:19:46.969 --> 02:19:49.429 the Co2 . What kind of things did you 02:19:49.440 --> 02:19:52.790 see them throwing on the deck ? Uh They 02:19:52.799 --> 02:19:56.780 have the , the bag probably where 02:19:56.790 --> 02:20:00.139 they had the equipment like uh ax , uh 02:20:00.169 --> 02:20:03.019 probably the jacket , as I , as I said 02:20:03.030 --> 02:20:06.860 before that , uh they come in t-shirt 02:20:06.870 --> 02:20:09.900 only and only before they go inside , 02:20:09.910 --> 02:20:12.740 they fully equipped . Uh after we told 02:20:12.750 --> 02:20:15.230 them and they have one bag and they 02:20:15.240 --> 02:20:17.889 throw on deck with actually each of 02:20:17.900 --> 02:20:20.049 them had one bag and they throw it on 02:20:20.059 --> 02:20:23.019 the , on the deck . Now , when you 02:20:23.030 --> 02:20:25.700 observe them trying to go into deck 11 , 02:20:25.709 --> 02:20:28.309 after they had put on their gear , uh , 02:20:28.320 --> 02:20:31.080 you said they opened the door like a 02:20:31.089 --> 02:20:33.389 regular door . Do you mean that they 02:20:33.400 --> 02:20:35.344 opened it so that they were facing 02:20:35.344 --> 02:20:39.009 directly into the space ? Yes , that's 02:20:39.019 --> 02:20:42.459 correct . Instead of how , how , how 02:20:42.469 --> 02:20:44.636 did you expect them to open the door ? 02:20:44.636 --> 02:20:48.559 So we at the 02:20:48.570 --> 02:20:52.400 training center , we are , um trained 02:20:52.410 --> 02:20:54.830 to open this also in the drills which 02:20:54.839 --> 02:20:57.879 we did on board of this vessel and the 02:20:57.889 --> 02:20:59.889 other vessel before . But I will uh 02:20:59.889 --> 02:21:01.709 remain only on this vessel . So 02:21:01.719 --> 02:21:05.400 basically , when you know that inside , 02:21:05.410 --> 02:21:08.660 you have like fire and you want to go 02:21:08.669 --> 02:21:11.959 inside to attack the fire with water . 02:21:11.969 --> 02:21:14.339 First of all , you must check with your 02:21:14.349 --> 02:21:17.080 uh with your back of the hand to check 02:21:17.089 --> 02:21:18.867 the walls , the door to see the 02:21:18.867 --> 02:21:21.959 temperature . And after you must uh 02:21:22.500 --> 02:21:26.200 put your shoulder and your uh knee in 02:21:26.209 --> 02:21:29.089 the door . So if there is some kind of 02:21:29.099 --> 02:21:31.389 uh patient inside , it will not uh 02:21:31.400 --> 02:21:33.530 throw you overboard or something like 02:21:33.629 --> 02:21:35.639 that . But they were opening like a 02:21:35.650 --> 02:21:37.790 normal door like a normal situation . 02:21:37.799 --> 02:21:39.910 They didn't check nothing . They just 02:21:39.910 --> 02:21:41.855 open the door and they went inside 02:21:41.879 --> 02:21:43.910 without considering the risk of 02:21:43.919 --> 02:21:45.919 explosion . The fact that there are 02:21:45.919 --> 02:21:48.790 people near them like civilian and 02:21:50.040 --> 02:21:52.151 yeah , they were going inside opening 02:21:52.151 --> 02:21:54.059 the door . Normally , when you 02:21:54.070 --> 02:21:56.292 initially stopped the firefighters from 02:21:56.292 --> 02:21:58.292 entering the space . How did you do 02:21:58.292 --> 02:22:01.759 that ? So I was doing the 02:22:01.769 --> 02:22:05.450 boundary cooling and they arrived 02:22:05.459 --> 02:22:08.719 there and uh I told them where to go . 02:22:08.730 --> 02:22:11.530 They insist to go for deck 11 . 02:22:11.980 --> 02:22:15.910 And uh I saw that , uh they go di uh as 02:22:15.919 --> 02:22:18.519 I said , they were in T shirt , no mask 02:22:18.740 --> 02:22:20.907 and they go directly and put the , the 02:22:20.907 --> 02:22:23.740 hand on the , on the door to open it . 02:22:23.990 --> 02:22:26.469 And this is when I uh give the , the 02:22:26.480 --> 02:22:28.919 nozzle to the ad which was assisting me . 02:22:28.929 --> 02:22:31.040 And I went to them and explained them 02:22:31.040 --> 02:22:33.262 that inside the CO2 , they were looking 02:22:33.262 --> 02:22:35.549 like me uh at me surprised , 02:22:36.750 --> 02:22:39.280 like , I don't know , uh like I , I 02:22:39.290 --> 02:22:41.870 told them something , they didn't know 02:22:41.879 --> 02:22:44.879 or I told them several times after that , 02:22:44.889 --> 02:22:47.780 one of them said , ok . Ok . And they 02:22:47.790 --> 02:22:50.929 started to , uh to , to do the same 02:22:50.940 --> 02:22:53.219 thing to open the door . And uh for a 02:22:53.230 --> 02:22:55.459 few minutes , I tried to explain this 02:22:55.469 --> 02:22:57.802 captain arrived and said the same thing . 02:22:58.280 --> 02:23:00.502 Uh , did you have to stand between them 02:23:00.502 --> 02:23:02.709 and the door to keep them from other ? 02:23:03.839 --> 02:23:06.540 I was not between them and the door , 02:23:06.549 --> 02:23:09.040 but I was very close to them . I mean , 02:23:09.049 --> 02:23:11.360 they could hear me very well because I 02:23:11.370 --> 02:23:14.500 was speaking very clear and uh loud 02:23:14.509 --> 02:23:18.349 enough so they can hear me . Uh I have 02:23:18.360 --> 02:23:22.309 no further questions . Ok . Thank you . 02:23:22.570 --> 02:23:23.650 Uh Ports America . 02:23:29.799 --> 02:23:32.099 Uh Good morning , sir . I have a few 02:23:32.110 --> 02:23:34.332 questions for you to follow up a little 02:23:34.332 --> 02:23:36.610 bit and go over some of your testimony . 02:23:36.610 --> 02:23:39.969 Ok . Ok . So 02:23:40.540 --> 02:23:44.250 the time that you , you believe you saw 02:23:44.259 --> 02:23:47.889 this smoking Jeep , there was a four 02:23:47.900 --> 02:23:51.580 hour span of time . And you're not able 02:23:51.589 --> 02:23:55.200 to say with any specificity 02:23:55.230 --> 02:23:57.429 when , during that four hour span 02:23:57.440 --> 02:24:00.400 between 0 812 100 you may have seen the 02:24:00.410 --> 02:24:04.389 cheap smoking . Is that correct ? Yes . 02:24:05.179 --> 02:24:08.950 And um , let me ask you this , how many 02:24:08.959 --> 02:24:11.120 railroad vessels had you sailed on 02:24:11.129 --> 02:24:14.780 before this vessel ? As I said before , 02:24:14.790 --> 02:24:17.339 this was my first uh ro vessel . 02:24:18.179 --> 02:24:20.709 And I may have gotten this wrong , but 02:24:20.719 --> 02:24:22.941 you were on this vessel for about three 02:24:22.941 --> 02:24:25.280 months before the fire . Yes , that's 02:24:25.290 --> 02:24:28.419 correct . And how many ports did you go 02:24:28.429 --> 02:24:30.919 to ? Did you call while you were aboard 02:24:30.929 --> 02:24:34.080 this first row row vessel that you call 02:24:34.089 --> 02:24:37.230 that you sailed on ? Uh Can you repeat , 02:24:37.240 --> 02:24:40.830 please ? Sure . How many ports ? How 02:24:40.839 --> 02:24:43.919 many different ports did the vessel 02:24:43.929 --> 02:24:47.080 call in while you were working for 02:24:47.089 --> 02:24:49.311 these three months on your first Raro , 02:24:50.500 --> 02:24:54.429 as I said also before . Uh I don't , I 02:24:54.440 --> 02:24:58.040 never counted them but were uh many and 02:24:58.049 --> 02:25:00.799 I said uh more than 10 , but uh it's 02:25:00.809 --> 02:25:03.959 more , more , more than 10 , how many , 02:25:03.969 --> 02:25:07.910 how many us ports ? United States 02:25:07.919 --> 02:25:11.490 ports . If I 02:25:11.500 --> 02:25:14.200 think back , I think only in United 02:25:14.209 --> 02:25:17.099 States uh every time I came it was 02:25:17.110 --> 02:25:20.639 around 10 ports . 10 . Where were they , 02:25:20.650 --> 02:25:24.519 sir ? So Baltimore , 02:25:24.530 --> 02:25:27.200 New York , uh 02:25:27.209 --> 02:25:30.530 Wilmington and there was another one , 02:25:30.540 --> 02:25:32.910 but I don't remember now its name and 02:25:32.919 --> 02:25:36.580 I've been here . Uh uh , this one was 02:25:36.589 --> 02:25:39.799 the first time when I came in America 02:25:40.719 --> 02:25:44.250 with the , with the roo . So Newark , 02:25:44.259 --> 02:25:46.690 the , the July 5th was the first time 02:25:46.700 --> 02:25:50.000 you were in Newark on a roo . No , it , 02:25:50.009 --> 02:25:52.780 uh , in July 5th , it was the third 02:25:52.790 --> 02:25:55.990 time . 1st , 3rd , 3rd . 02:25:57.269 --> 02:25:59.959 Ok , I'm , I'm not getting it . I 02:25:59.969 --> 02:26:02.469 believe you're saying . 3rd , 3rd , 3 . 02:26:03.019 --> 02:26:06.959 Ok . Thank you . In , in Port Baltimore 02:26:06.969 --> 02:26:10.080 they use pusher vehicles , correct ? 02:26:12.299 --> 02:26:14.669 I don't remember , but I think they're 02:26:14.679 --> 02:26:17.509 using our Bobcats . Sir . 02:26:19.690 --> 02:26:23.509 Bobcats are Bobcats are only used 02:26:23.790 --> 02:26:27.570 in Baltimore and in Newark to push for 02:26:27.580 --> 02:26:29.969 minor distances on the , on the vessel . 02:26:29.980 --> 02:26:32.780 Right ? Yes , they are . They were 02:26:32.790 --> 02:26:35.059 using in Baltimore , they were using 02:26:35.440 --> 02:26:38.870 the Bobcats and in uh in New York they 02:26:38.879 --> 02:26:41.070 were using their car , the , the the 02:26:41.080 --> 02:26:44.660 port car to push . Yeah , in Baltimore 02:26:44.669 --> 02:26:48.169 though they use pusher vehicles , right ? 02:26:50.049 --> 02:26:53.940 That's why I said I remember this . I 02:26:54.129 --> 02:26:57.610 I'm not sure if they were using the , 02:26:57.620 --> 02:26:59.676 the only place , the only place they 02:26:59.676 --> 02:27:02.599 use Bobcats exclusively is in Africa . 02:27:03.269 --> 02:27:07.000 Is that correct ? They are 02:27:07.009 --> 02:27:09.280 using ? Yes , in Africa also pockets 02:27:10.730 --> 02:27:13.629 and you don't know whether Grimaldi 02:27:13.639 --> 02:27:17.019 allows ports America to use 02:27:17.030 --> 02:27:20.540 Bobcats in Newark or not . Is that fair 02:27:20.549 --> 02:27:23.940 to say ? No , I don't know . What is 02:27:23.950 --> 02:27:26.549 the , the agreement between Grimaldi 02:27:26.559 --> 02:27:29.330 and Port of America ? Now 02:27:30.299 --> 02:27:32.509 you were , where were you standing 02:27:32.519 --> 02:27:35.849 exactly when you saw the Jeep with the 02:27:35.860 --> 02:27:38.030 white smoke coming out of the driver's 02:27:38.040 --> 02:27:39.984 side of the hood . Were you on the 02:27:39.984 --> 02:27:43.019 third level ? The third deck . Yes . On 02:27:43.030 --> 02:27:46.980 the far deck . And the Jeep had 02:27:46.990 --> 02:27:49.849 come up from , from the bottom ramp 02:27:49.860 --> 02:27:53.019 when you swat , correct . Yes . From 02:27:53.030 --> 02:27:55.759 the entrance . And you don't know 02:27:55.769 --> 02:27:58.120 whether the Jeep had worked earlier 02:27:58.129 --> 02:28:00.599 that day or not . Is that also correct ? 02:28:02.900 --> 02:28:05.080 Yes , it worked . I also , I already 02:28:05.089 --> 02:28:08.250 said that I saw the Jeep before 02:28:08.549 --> 02:28:12.089 the , and I saw also after that , but I , 02:28:12.099 --> 02:28:15.320 I don't remember at what time the 02:28:15.330 --> 02:28:18.019 incident is the smoke . Did the smoke 02:28:18.030 --> 02:28:20.410 start coming out of the hood on the , 02:28:20.419 --> 02:28:22.641 on the driver's side ? Just when it got 02:28:22.641 --> 02:28:25.099 to the third deck or was it smoking as 02:28:25.110 --> 02:28:28.870 it came up the ramp ? I don't know if 02:28:28.879 --> 02:28:31.450 it was from the beginning from the ramp 02:28:31.459 --> 02:28:33.889 or it was there . I remember that I saw 02:28:33.900 --> 02:28:36.330 the car stopped and the , the smoke , 02:28:36.339 --> 02:28:38.809 the , the white smoke , the , the 02:28:38.820 --> 02:28:41.042 distance from the beginning of the ramp 02:28:41.042 --> 02:28:43.150 to the third ramp is about how many 02:28:43.160 --> 02:28:46.780 feet ? I don't know . I , 02:28:47.379 --> 02:28:50.889 I never measured the , the , the , the , 02:28:51.849 --> 02:28:53.849 but you can see from the third ramp 02:28:53.849 --> 02:28:56.070 down to the opening onto the vessel . 02:28:56.080 --> 02:28:59.910 Correct . Yes , you can see . And 02:28:59.919 --> 02:29:03.179 if the Jeep was smoking as it was 02:29:03.190 --> 02:29:05.269 coming onto the vessel , that's 02:29:05.280 --> 02:29:07.391 something we should be able to see in 02:29:07.391 --> 02:29:09.910 the videotape that's directed at that 02:29:09.919 --> 02:29:13.150 opening at , at the bottom of the ramp . 02:29:13.160 --> 02:29:16.620 Right ? I don't know if you can see it 02:29:16.629 --> 02:29:20.089 on the camera but , uh , you were able 02:29:20.099 --> 02:29:22.240 to see it was very clear to you . You 02:29:22.250 --> 02:29:24.417 saw white smoke very clearly . Right ? 02:29:25.540 --> 02:29:28.889 If you have an objection , the , the , 02:29:28.900 --> 02:29:31.011 uh , uh , the attorney is stepping on 02:29:31.011 --> 02:29:33.344 the witnesses answers . I , I apologize . 02:29:33.344 --> 02:29:35.511 I , I'll go slower . I'm always trying 02:29:35.511 --> 02:29:37.289 to speed myself up during these 02:29:37.289 --> 02:29:40.419 hearings , but I'll go slower . Thank 02:29:40.429 --> 02:29:42.485 you . I think I would , I would also 02:29:42.485 --> 02:29:44.318 move on as far as like the , the 02:29:44.318 --> 02:29:46.540 footage of him being able to decipher . 02:29:46.540 --> 02:29:48.762 I mean , we've talked about the quality 02:29:48.762 --> 02:29:50.485 of that . So I think the , the 02:29:50.485 --> 02:29:53.440 relevancy is limited . Ok . 02:29:54.969 --> 02:29:57.459 Uh , but the point is you , you don't 02:29:57.469 --> 02:30:00.469 know when the smoke started , you just 02:30:00.480 --> 02:30:03.250 saw it in the third deck may well have 02:30:03.259 --> 02:30:05.990 been smoking while it came up the ramp 02:30:06.000 --> 02:30:07.459 from the lot . Right ? 02:30:09.950 --> 02:30:12.259 Yeah , I can't say this because I don't 02:30:12.269 --> 02:30:14.750 know . So I can answer only to what I 02:30:14.759 --> 02:30:17.070 know . And to when I started to see 02:30:17.080 --> 02:30:19.247 this , I don't know if it was from the 02:30:19.247 --> 02:30:21.549 beginning or not . It was from that . 02:30:23.429 --> 02:30:25.549 I apologize again . How far were you 02:30:25.559 --> 02:30:28.339 from this ? From this Jeep on the third 02:30:28.349 --> 02:30:30.516 deck when it stopped ? As you , as you 02:30:30.516 --> 02:30:34.230 say , I never measured to see the 02:30:34.240 --> 02:30:36.559 distance . Exactly , but close enough . 02:30:36.570 --> 02:30:39.160 So I can see the jeep , the , the 02:30:39.169 --> 02:30:42.169 persons and the smoke . I was exactly 02:30:42.179 --> 02:30:45.530 near the ramp . 3 10 ft away , 20 ft 02:30:45.540 --> 02:30:49.309 away . I don't know . Did the 02:30:49.320 --> 02:30:51.669 smoke set off an alarm on the vessel . 02:30:53.580 --> 02:30:57.500 No , it was uh like small quantity in 02:30:57.940 --> 02:31:00.740 a , in a space . Very big . Did , did 02:31:00.750 --> 02:31:03.099 you smell anything ? No . 02:31:04.660 --> 02:31:05.320 Um , 02:31:09.080 --> 02:31:13.049 now the process is that cars are 02:31:13.059 --> 02:31:16.440 driven up , uh , under their own power , 02:31:17.059 --> 02:31:19.219 they're also pushed and they're also 02:31:19.230 --> 02:31:21.559 forklift up . Is that all correct ? 02:31:23.719 --> 02:31:26.690 Yes , they were pushed by the other 02:31:26.700 --> 02:31:30.049 cars by the pushers . Uh , I don't 02:31:30.059 --> 02:31:32.889 remember if I saw them by the 02:31:32.900 --> 02:31:35.700 forklift at , uh , in that day , 02:31:37.280 --> 02:31:39.299 but the , the , the process is that 02:31:39.309 --> 02:31:42.019 cars keep coming up these ramps , right ? 02:31:42.459 --> 02:31:46.219 Yes . And when , when this car , as you , 02:31:46.230 --> 02:31:48.509 as you say , it happened stopped 02:31:48.519 --> 02:31:50.740 because there was white smoke coming 02:31:50.750 --> 02:31:54.110 out and three people , the driver and 02:31:54.120 --> 02:31:57.049 two other people came by the car and 02:31:57.059 --> 02:31:59.709 they were talking and looking , right ? 02:32:00.589 --> 02:32:03.419 Yes . Were there other cars backing up 02:32:03.429 --> 02:32:07.259 behind it ? No , it was only 02:32:07.269 --> 02:32:10.599 this , it was only the Jeep and the car 02:32:10.610 --> 02:32:13.459 which was uh pushed by the Jeep . Ok . 02:32:13.469 --> 02:32:15.525 So how long were these folks there ? 02:32:16.290 --> 02:32:18.280 Are they there for a minute ? 10 02:32:18.290 --> 02:32:21.209 minutes ? 20 minutes ? I don't know . 02:32:21.219 --> 02:32:24.450 As I said , I saw them at some point . 02:32:24.459 --> 02:32:28.290 They came there . I uh I , he relieved 02:32:28.299 --> 02:32:30.400 me from there and I continue with my 02:32:30.410 --> 02:32:34.400 job . After a few time , I saw that uh 02:32:34.410 --> 02:32:36.610 the car , it's working again without 02:32:36.620 --> 02:32:40.500 the smoke . So you can't say how long 02:32:40.509 --> 02:32:42.980 the car stopped there while smoke was 02:32:42.990 --> 02:32:46.669 coming out . But you , you say that at 02:32:46.679 --> 02:32:49.290 some point it continued on its way up . 02:32:49.969 --> 02:32:52.690 Yes , that's right . No smoke . You've 02:32:52.709 --> 02:32:55.429 no smoke . You know how , how , how 02:32:55.440 --> 02:32:57.551 long was smoke actually coming out of 02:32:57.551 --> 02:32:59.718 this car ? I got to check again . This 02:32:59.718 --> 02:33:01.884 is John Levy . You're , again , you're 02:33:01.884 --> 02:33:04.107 continually stepping on the witnesses . 02:33:04.107 --> 02:33:08.019 Ok . Ok . How long 02:33:08.030 --> 02:33:10.197 was smoke ? Do , do you say was coming 02:33:10.197 --> 02:33:13.309 out of this car ? Uh , can you repeat 02:33:13.320 --> 02:33:16.370 please ? How long do you say smoke was 02:33:16.379 --> 02:33:19.940 coming out of this car ? I don't know 02:33:19.950 --> 02:33:23.839 for how long I never check my watch . 02:33:23.849 --> 02:33:27.230 I know that it , uh , that it came out , 02:33:27.240 --> 02:33:30.030 I saw it and , uh , after I already 02:33:30.040 --> 02:33:32.389 told you what happened but , but it 02:33:32.400 --> 02:33:34.900 didn't , it didn't block any other cars 02:33:34.910 --> 02:33:37.839 or push your cars or driven cars or 02:33:37.849 --> 02:33:40.280 fork forklifts from coming up the ramp . 02:33:40.290 --> 02:33:44.160 Correct ? If they wanted to come 02:33:44.169 --> 02:33:46.990 on the , on the on board , they could 02:33:47.000 --> 02:33:50.660 come . It was , uh , exactly more or 02:33:50.669 --> 02:33:52.990 less in front of the ramp which is 02:33:53.000 --> 02:33:55.570 leading from deck three to deck six 02:33:55.580 --> 02:33:58.799 through there . I don't remember if 02:33:58.809 --> 02:34:00.976 they could , uh , pass , for example , 02:34:00.976 --> 02:34:03.031 other cars , if they could , if they 02:34:03.031 --> 02:34:06.190 could pass near them also , I don't 02:34:06.200 --> 02:34:08.480 know if other cars didn't come on board 02:34:08.490 --> 02:34:12.410 because of this problem or because it 02:34:12.419 --> 02:34:14.969 was a delay in , uh , in the port . I 02:34:14.980 --> 02:34:17.589 don't know what is the reason , but no 02:34:17.599 --> 02:34:20.309 car come after , uh , after the smoke . 02:34:21.410 --> 02:34:23.669 Now you have about a minute . Uh , I , 02:34:23.679 --> 02:34:26.269 I need more time . I , uh , I I need 02:34:26.280 --> 02:34:29.709 more time . There's been testimony in 02:34:29.719 --> 02:34:33.250 this case by a federal agent that 02:34:33.259 --> 02:34:35.650 there that , that reviewed evidence 02:34:35.660 --> 02:34:37.719 that there was no smoke . No , no 02:34:37.730 --> 02:34:40.070 witnesses said smoke was coming from 02:34:40.080 --> 02:34:43.049 this car , but you saw smoke coming 02:34:43.059 --> 02:34:44.900 from this car . Is that correct 02:34:45.290 --> 02:34:47.623 objection ? That's an improper question . 02:34:47.623 --> 02:34:49.790 That that's not an improper question . 02:34:51.610 --> 02:34:54.200 Wait , wait , wait , wait , please 02:34:54.209 --> 02:34:56.209 refrain from objections between one 02:34:56.209 --> 02:34:58.431 another . I I will take one in a turn . 02:34:58.719 --> 02:35:01.190 So Mr Levy , please go first . It's an 02:35:01.200 --> 02:35:03.540 improper question asking him making a 02:35:03.549 --> 02:35:05.493 representation to him as to what a 02:35:05.493 --> 02:35:07.860 federal person a witness supposedly 02:35:07.870 --> 02:35:10.160 said uh that's , that's a proper 02:35:10.169 --> 02:35:12.336 question . And beyond the scope of the 02:35:12.336 --> 02:35:16.330 direct examination agent Hartnett 02:35:16.480 --> 02:35:20.259 testified as to a basis 02:35:20.269 --> 02:35:22.480 for his working hypothesis that no 02:35:22.490 --> 02:35:25.269 witnesses observed smoke before the 02:35:25.280 --> 02:35:27.058 fire started . This witness has 02:35:27.058 --> 02:35:29.113 testified , he saw smoke . I want to 02:35:29.113 --> 02:35:31.540 establish that that that's in fact what 02:35:31.549 --> 02:35:34.389 he saw . I think that we've established 02:35:34.400 --> 02:35:38.120 that . So , thank you . Now sir , 02:35:38.129 --> 02:35:40.351 even though you say you saw smoke , you 02:35:40.351 --> 02:35:42.407 never reported this to anyone on the 02:35:42.407 --> 02:35:46.349 vessel . Correct ? Yes . And you 02:35:46.360 --> 02:35:49.559 were aware that the vessel uh 02:35:50.480 --> 02:35:52.940 and and the vessel had cargo that was 02:35:52.950 --> 02:35:55.830 being loaded , that was potentially 02:35:55.839 --> 02:35:59.400 hazardous , right ? Yeah . 02:36:00.589 --> 02:36:03.849 And uh this whatever you saw did not 02:36:03.860 --> 02:36:07.509 concern you . Correct . Negative , 02:36:08.139 --> 02:36:12.120 it did concern you . So the respon my 02:36:12.129 --> 02:36:14.919 responsibility as uh as part of a 02:36:14.929 --> 02:36:18.570 vessel , it's uh the safety of the , 02:36:19.559 --> 02:36:22.660 of the crew and of the vessel at that 02:36:22.669 --> 02:36:26.530 moment , I saw the car was isolated uh 02:36:26.540 --> 02:36:29.870 near us , near it . There was nothing 02:36:29.879 --> 02:36:32.290 in the , in the , in the near uh in the 02:36:32.299 --> 02:36:34.690 vicinity of the , of these two cars of 02:36:34.700 --> 02:36:36.860 the one which was with smoke and the 02:36:36.870 --> 02:36:39.990 one which was pushed and was only a uh 02:36:40.179 --> 02:36:43.469 a white uh smoke . At that time , I 02:36:43.480 --> 02:36:46.230 assumed that there is nothing . And 02:36:46.240 --> 02:36:48.759 after that I saw that the car is still 02:36:48.769 --> 02:36:51.589 working . So I assumed that there is no 02:36:51.599 --> 02:36:54.750 danger for the , for the vessel , 02:36:55.690 --> 02:36:58.290 even if there is a mechanical problem 02:36:58.299 --> 02:37:00.830 of the car , this is , uh , this , the , 02:37:00.839 --> 02:37:03.419 the car is the property of Port America 02:37:03.750 --> 02:37:05.917 and they are in charge of their , uh , 02:37:05.917 --> 02:37:09.389 cars . Well , sir , if , if there is a 02:37:09.400 --> 02:37:12.820 potential cause of a fire 02:37:13.820 --> 02:37:16.290 coming on to the vessel , whether it 02:37:16.299 --> 02:37:20.070 was the port's car or anyone else's car , 02:37:20.080 --> 02:37:22.191 that would be something you should be 02:37:22.191 --> 02:37:25.940 concerned about . Right ? Yes . 02:37:25.950 --> 02:37:28.599 If it was a , if it was a dangerous 02:37:28.610 --> 02:37:31.709 situation , as I said , at that moment , 02:37:31.719 --> 02:37:34.040 it was not a dangerous situation , not 02:37:34.049 --> 02:37:36.169 leading to a dangerous , dangerous 02:37:36.179 --> 02:37:38.179 situation . So , 02:37:40.240 --> 02:37:42.351 the smoke that you observed was not a 02:37:42.351 --> 02:37:45.940 concern to you right at that moment . 02:37:45.950 --> 02:37:48.660 No , the car was stopped and they were 02:37:48.669 --> 02:37:52.389 taking care of it . And this last 02:37:52.540 --> 02:37:56.269 last question when you , uh , went 02:37:56.280 --> 02:37:59.540 to deck 10 after the fire , if you 02:37:59.549 --> 02:38:03.030 alerted to the fire , uh , do I 02:38:03.040 --> 02:38:05.219 understand it correctly that 02:38:07.269 --> 02:38:11.240 you picked up a hose ? You waited 02:38:11.250 --> 02:38:14.679 for it for the water to engage , take 02:38:14.690 --> 02:38:18.059 some time . But by before that happened , 02:38:18.070 --> 02:38:20.360 this , the black smoke got so thick 02:38:21.570 --> 02:38:23.348 that you had to flee the area . 02:38:25.339 --> 02:38:29.269 So I didn't wait to take the , 02:38:29.290 --> 02:38:32.400 the extinguisher first . As I said , I 02:38:32.410 --> 02:38:35.889 stopped somewhere near the near deck 02:38:35.900 --> 02:38:38.009 seven on the ram , but near deck uh 02:38:38.019 --> 02:38:41.740 seven , it was me and one A , one A 02:38:41.750 --> 02:38:44.000 B or one . I don't remember who was 02:38:44.009 --> 02:38:47.620 there at this moment . I was , uh 02:38:47.750 --> 02:38:50.919 unleashing the , the extinguisher at 02:38:50.929 --> 02:38:53.469 this moment . The chief mate called me 02:38:53.480 --> 02:38:56.200 from deck tent and this is when I left 02:38:56.209 --> 02:38:58.376 the extinguisher to the other . Uh , o 02:38:58.690 --> 02:39:01.589 I went there , we prepared the host 02:39:03.679 --> 02:39:06.440 and after we were , we were waiting , 02:39:06.450 --> 02:39:08.450 of course , they , they started the 02:39:08.450 --> 02:39:11.179 pumps and we were waiting for the water 02:39:11.190 --> 02:39:13.412 to come in . The meantime . Yes , the , 02:39:13.412 --> 02:39:16.360 the , the smoke was , uh coming to us . 02:39:16.429 --> 02:39:19.500 We had to eat it . Yeah . And you don't 02:39:19.509 --> 02:39:21.676 know what happened on that check after 02:39:21.676 --> 02:39:24.509 you left . That's correct . Right . Yes , 02:39:24.519 --> 02:39:26.660 that's correct . Ok . Thank you . 02:39:29.929 --> 02:39:33.269 Uh Thank you , uh , American Maritime 02:39:33.280 --> 02:39:34.009 Services . 02:39:38.719 --> 02:39:41.219 Hi , Mr Shal . Can you hear me ? Yes . 02:39:41.530 --> 02:39:44.549 Ok . Uh , when you're on watch on July 02:39:44.559 --> 02:39:46.849 5th that morning from eight to noon , 02:39:47.139 --> 02:39:49.139 uh , there was also an A B on watch 02:39:49.139 --> 02:39:51.083 with you . Is that correct ? Yes , 02:39:51.083 --> 02:39:53.200 always . There is one A B on duty , 02:39:53.980 --> 02:39:56.091 right ? And , and , and when I say on 02:39:56.091 --> 02:39:58.036 watch with you , he was physically 02:39:58.036 --> 02:40:00.202 present . Um , either on deck three or 02:40:00.202 --> 02:40:02.480 on the main ramp . Is that right ? Yes , 02:40:02.480 --> 02:40:05.969 he is uh always present at the end in 02:40:05.980 --> 02:40:08.650 the , in the , in the vessel . Right ? 02:40:08.660 --> 02:40:11.730 It , it is his job to um ensure that 02:40:11.740 --> 02:40:13.851 unauthorized persons aren't coming on 02:40:13.851 --> 02:40:15.796 board and , and he's observing any 02:40:15.796 --> 02:40:17.907 traffic on and off of the main ramp . 02:40:18.259 --> 02:40:21.650 Yes , but also during those hours of 02:40:21.660 --> 02:40:23.716 eight in the morning until noon that 02:40:23.716 --> 02:40:25.882 day , um Are there also occasions when 02:40:25.882 --> 02:40:28.104 other other crew members , crew members 02:40:28.104 --> 02:40:30.160 not on watch also cross through deck 02:40:30.160 --> 02:40:31.882 three for different purposes . 02:40:35.200 --> 02:40:38.339 Uh , they can cross , for example , if 02:40:38.349 --> 02:40:41.309 they were , if they are from the engine 02:40:41.809 --> 02:40:43.809 and they have , uh , work various , 02:40:43.809 --> 02:40:46.379 they can cross also there , this area . 02:40:46.389 --> 02:40:48.500 If they want to go outside , they can 02:40:48.509 --> 02:40:51.790 cross , uh , this area . So , yes . All 02:40:51.799 --> 02:40:53.966 right . So , so during your watch that 02:40:53.966 --> 02:40:55.966 morning , there were occasions when 02:40:55.966 --> 02:40:58.132 crew members who were not on the watch 02:40:58.132 --> 02:41:00.188 would be present on deck three or on 02:41:00.188 --> 02:41:02.466 the main ramp . Is that right ? The on , 02:41:02.466 --> 02:41:05.059 if , uh , if one person is not on watch 02:41:05.070 --> 02:41:07.429 or not on duty and not properly , keep 02:41:07.440 --> 02:41:09.690 the , uh , equipped with the safety 02:41:09.700 --> 02:41:13.370 equipment , the only reason for them to 02:41:13.379 --> 02:41:15.268 be there , it's only when they go 02:41:15.268 --> 02:41:18.129 outside to relax themselves in the rest . 02:41:18.160 --> 02:41:20.104 They are not allowed to stay there 02:41:20.104 --> 02:41:22.271 without the safety shoes and all the , 02:41:22.271 --> 02:41:26.250 uh , protective equipment . All 02:41:26.259 --> 02:41:28.370 right . So , so if other crew members 02:41:28.370 --> 02:41:31.120 or the A bon watch were to say , uh , 02:41:31.129 --> 02:41:33.185 were to testify that they didn't see 02:41:33.185 --> 02:41:35.351 anything unusual that day . That would 02:41:35.351 --> 02:41:37.407 be different than what you're saying 02:41:37.407 --> 02:41:39.573 today . Is that correct ? I don't know 02:41:39.573 --> 02:41:41.629 what other people saw . I am here to 02:41:41.629 --> 02:41:43.200 tell what I saw . 02:41:47.290 --> 02:41:49.401 Right . Yeah . But , but if they were 02:41:49.401 --> 02:41:51.457 to say that they didn't see anything 02:41:51.457 --> 02:41:51.360 unusual that day , that would be 02:41:51.370 --> 02:41:53.481 different than what you're saying . I 02:41:53.481 --> 02:41:55.592 don't know . As I said , I don't know 02:41:55.592 --> 02:41:58.129 what they say . It's only what I saw . 02:41:58.759 --> 02:42:00.537 I think this has been asked and 02:42:00.537 --> 02:42:02.259 answered . Um , and we've , it 02:42:02.259 --> 02:42:04.919 demonstrates and he's not here today . 02:42:04.929 --> 02:42:08.809 Thanks . Uh while you're on watch , 02:42:08.820 --> 02:42:11.139 Mr Jamal , did you have a radio with 02:42:11.150 --> 02:42:13.372 you that would allow you to communicate 02:42:13.372 --> 02:42:15.540 to uh other crew members on the ship ? 02:42:16.290 --> 02:42:19.889 Yes , I always uh have a radio with me . 02:42:19.900 --> 02:42:22.759 A portable radio DH F when I uh I am on 02:42:22.769 --> 02:42:24.799 duty , everybody , when they are on 02:42:24.809 --> 02:42:26.865 duty , they must have one radio with 02:42:26.865 --> 02:42:29.360 them . Ok . So , so had you wanted to 02:42:29.370 --> 02:42:31.870 make a report regarding the smoke or 02:42:31.879 --> 02:42:34.046 steam coming from the Jeep ? You , you 02:42:34.046 --> 02:42:36.101 could have because you had the radio 02:42:36.101 --> 02:42:39.860 with you . Yes , that's correct . Uh 02:42:39.870 --> 02:42:41.926 And , and , but you didn't make that 02:42:41.926 --> 02:42:44.129 kind of report . Is that right ? To 02:42:44.139 --> 02:42:46.410 make a report ? You must know what is 02:42:46.419 --> 02:42:48.769 the situation ? And I saw at that time 02:42:48.780 --> 02:42:51.209 that the situation was not dangerous , 02:42:51.219 --> 02:42:54.049 as I said , nothing around them . The , 02:42:54.059 --> 02:42:56.570 the car was , they stopped and they 02:42:56.580 --> 02:42:58.950 were looking , they , I don't know if 02:42:58.959 --> 02:43:01.209 they knew the , the , what , what is 02:43:01.219 --> 02:43:04.320 the problem or not ? So , I , if they 02:43:04.330 --> 02:43:06.580 don't know if , I don't know if , uh , 02:43:06.589 --> 02:43:08.589 they knew the problem , I can't say 02:43:08.589 --> 02:43:11.629 that there is a problem at that moment . 02:43:11.709 --> 02:43:14.950 It was not a dangerous situation . 02:43:16.049 --> 02:43:18.216 I , I think you said when the Jeep was 02:43:18.216 --> 02:43:20.690 stopped , the two , men were conferring , 02:43:20.709 --> 02:43:22.709 uh , talking to each other near the 02:43:22.709 --> 02:43:24.765 Jeep . Could you hear what they were 02:43:24.765 --> 02:43:27.040 saying ? No , I didn't approach the 02:43:27.049 --> 02:43:30.629 Jeep because it was uh the problem it 02:43:30.639 --> 02:43:33.629 was from , from their car and I let 02:43:33.639 --> 02:43:37.459 them fix if they could fix . I 02:43:37.469 --> 02:43:40.799 just observed the thing , uh the the 02:43:40.809 --> 02:43:44.500 entire situation uh 02:43:45.000 --> 02:43:47.222 during the course of your watch both in 02:43:47.222 --> 02:43:49.444 the morning and in the evening , uh you 02:43:49.444 --> 02:43:51.611 observed that Jeep loading vehicles at 02:43:51.611 --> 02:43:54.320 different times , correct ? Yes . 02:43:54.330 --> 02:43:58.059 Pushing . Did you ever get close enough 02:43:58.070 --> 02:44:00.237 to , to see inside the Jeep and to see 02:44:00.237 --> 02:44:02.459 the instrument panel or the dashboard ? 02:44:02.530 --> 02:44:06.269 Never ? So when you , I 02:44:06.280 --> 02:44:08.169 think earlier , you said that you 02:44:08.169 --> 02:44:10.391 believe the Jeep was struggling to push 02:44:10.391 --> 02:44:12.447 cars on . Um , is that based on , on 02:44:12.447 --> 02:44:14.558 just your experience driving a normal 02:44:14.558 --> 02:44:16.900 personal car around town or is that 02:44:16.910 --> 02:44:18.799 based on experience ? You have uh 02:44:18.799 --> 02:44:20.466 loading cars onto railroads . 02:44:22.290 --> 02:44:25.860 So it's based on what I saw and by what 02:44:25.870 --> 02:44:28.509 I saw , I mean , visually and the , the 02:44:29.309 --> 02:44:31.450 what I saw from this Jeep . And as I 02:44:31.459 --> 02:44:33.790 said before , the other two trucks 02:44:33.799 --> 02:44:37.440 which were pushing cars So 02:44:37.450 --> 02:44:40.349 while I saw the , the other trucks had 02:44:40.360 --> 02:44:43.679 no problem pushing , I saw this one had 02:44:43.690 --> 02:44:45.801 some problem pushing and the engine , 02:44:45.801 --> 02:44:48.309 the , the R PM of the engine was uh 02:44:50.089 --> 02:44:53.530 at a maximum , let's say speed rotation . 02:44:54.559 --> 02:44:57.089 So that , that , that is my question 02:44:57.099 --> 02:44:59.321 there . I mean , you're saying the R PM 02:44:59.321 --> 02:45:01.266 was maximum or it was going to the 02:45:01.266 --> 02:45:03.488 maximum , but , but you never looked at 02:45:03.488 --> 02:45:05.599 the instrument panel . So I mean , do 02:45:05.599 --> 02:45:04.679 you know for sure that it was at the 02:45:04.690 --> 02:45:08.290 maximum ? I said it was a high 02:45:08.299 --> 02:45:10.750 RP and if it's the maximum or not , I 02:45:10.759 --> 02:45:12.870 don't know . Of course , I didn't saw 02:45:12.870 --> 02:45:15.559 the instrument . I was not to see this . 02:45:15.570 --> 02:45:17.792 You must be inside the car and I am not 02:45:17.792 --> 02:45:19.700 part of the port of America to be 02:45:19.709 --> 02:45:20.709 inside the car . 02:45:24.259 --> 02:45:26.148 You also at the beginning of your 02:45:26.148 --> 02:45:28.440 testament talked about generally , um 02:45:29.519 --> 02:45:31.740 you had some occasions to instruct 02:45:31.750 --> 02:45:34.019 drivers of pushers , uh pushing 02:45:34.030 --> 02:45:36.197 vehicles when you're in Newark on that 02:45:36.200 --> 02:45:39.000 day on July 5th , 2023 . Did you ever 02:45:39.009 --> 02:45:41.370 provide instructions to drivers who 02:45:41.379 --> 02:45:44.980 were loading cars on the ship ? I 02:45:44.990 --> 02:45:48.110 don't remember as I said , I think also 02:45:48.169 --> 02:45:50.549 in the beginning , I don't remember uh 02:45:50.559 --> 02:45:54.049 if I give uh I spoke in general , uh as 02:45:54.059 --> 02:45:56.226 I said , I speak in general in general 02:45:56.226 --> 02:45:58.509 because I don't remember if this time 02:45:58.519 --> 02:46:01.429 also I give some instructions or not , 02:46:05.080 --> 02:46:07.358 right ? And , and during the firefight , 02:46:07.358 --> 02:46:09.580 um as you were moving between decks was 02:46:09.580 --> 02:46:11.747 there ever an occasion when you looked 02:46:11.747 --> 02:46:13.858 in when you were able to see the ramp 02:46:13.858 --> 02:46:16.950 that leads from deck 10 to deck 11 . No , 02:46:18.459 --> 02:46:20.910 I never saw the , the , the round from 02:46:20.919 --> 02:46:22.309 deck 10 to deck 11 . 02:46:28.839 --> 02:46:31.006 I believe those are all my questions . 02:46:31.006 --> 02:46:30.379 Thank you . 02:46:35.150 --> 02:46:37.660 Thank you . Uh , port authority of New 02:46:37.669 --> 02:46:38.780 York , New Jersey . 02:46:41.540 --> 02:46:45.469 I have no questions . Ok , thank 02:46:45.480 --> 02:46:47.591 you . And , uh , the city of Newark . 02:46:51.490 --> 02:46:54.370 Good afternoon . Hello , you can hear 02:46:54.379 --> 02:46:56.589 me . Ok . Yeah , I'm here , I'm here . 02:46:57.500 --> 02:46:58.450 All right . Um , 02:47:02.980 --> 02:47:05.400 I guess I just wanna ask you about , uh , 02:47:05.410 --> 02:47:07.809 the ventilation system and opening the 02:47:07.820 --> 02:47:11.290 ventilation . Ok . So when you were 02:47:11.299 --> 02:47:13.009 talking about , um , how the 02:47:13.019 --> 02:47:15.190 firefighters , someone asked you to 02:47:15.200 --> 02:47:17.429 open the ventilation , um , you 02:47:17.440 --> 02:47:19.969 communicated that to the captain from , 02:47:19.980 --> 02:47:22.459 from that point when the captain orders 02:47:22.469 --> 02:47:24.580 that the ventilation system be open , 02:47:24.580 --> 02:47:26.858 how's that accomplished ? What happens ? 02:47:27.780 --> 02:47:30.860 So , everything that's happening in the 02:47:30.870 --> 02:47:34.700 bridge , he must uh , announce the , 02:47:34.709 --> 02:47:37.280 the engine room . They have to reset 02:47:37.660 --> 02:47:39.839 the , the system and after that by 02:47:39.849 --> 02:47:43.030 computer you just , uh open . Ok . So , 02:47:43.269 --> 02:47:46.120 um , so I take it then that captain 02:47:46.129 --> 02:47:48.700 calls down to the engine room , correct ? 02:47:49.309 --> 02:47:51.679 No , she doesn't go to the engine room 02:47:52.059 --> 02:47:55.400 by radio . I don't know if they , if 02:47:55.410 --> 02:47:57.830 the signal reaches from the radio or by , 02:47:57.839 --> 02:48:00.730 uh , by telephone , telephone or by , 02:48:00.740 --> 02:48:03.389 by , by magnet or telephone . Do you 02:48:03.400 --> 02:48:05.759 know if the first time that the 02:48:05.769 --> 02:48:08.629 ventilation system was opened ? Do you 02:48:08.639 --> 02:48:10.990 know if the firefighter , the local 02:48:11.000 --> 02:48:13.730 firefighter had been lost at that time 02:48:13.940 --> 02:48:16.330 or did that happen before he was lost ? 02:48:16.339 --> 02:48:20.070 Do you know , as I said before , I 02:48:20.080 --> 02:48:23.419 don't know , somewhere at this point is , 02:48:23.429 --> 02:48:26.000 uh , where I , uh , find out that , uh , 02:48:26.009 --> 02:48:28.339 there is a missing person but I don't 02:48:28.349 --> 02:48:30.839 know if this happened before the first 02:48:30.849 --> 02:48:32.960 time we opened , we started the , the 02:48:32.960 --> 02:48:35.240 ventilation or after . But this is the 02:48:35.250 --> 02:48:37.472 point somewhere here is the point where 02:48:37.472 --> 02:48:39.806 I find out there is a missing body . Ok , 02:48:39.806 --> 02:48:42.129 a missing person . Sorry . One of the 02:48:42.139 --> 02:48:44.759 documents that we have is um 02:48:45.519 --> 02:48:49.059 exhibit 16 , which is the 02:48:49.070 --> 02:48:52.940 timeline of the ship's voyage data 02:48:52.950 --> 02:48:55.549 recorder . Uh Lieutenant , can you put 02:48:55.559 --> 02:48:58.219 up uh exhibit 16 , please ? 02:49:00.339 --> 02:49:01.339 Sure , 02:49:07.429 --> 02:49:10.110 Mr Levy , do you have ? Uh Yes , I have 02:49:10.120 --> 02:49:12.342 an objection . Uh It's beyond the scope 02:49:12.342 --> 02:49:14.342 of the direct and I'm not sure this 02:49:14.342 --> 02:49:16.509 witness has any firsthand knowledge of 02:49:16.509 --> 02:49:18.564 the vessel data recorder and what it 02:49:18.564 --> 02:49:21.639 says , I'm just trying to establish a 02:49:21.650 --> 02:49:23.650 timeline and if he doesn't have any 02:49:23.650 --> 02:49:27.240 knowledge , then he'll tell me what 02:49:27.250 --> 02:49:29.509 part in particular are you referencing 02:49:29.519 --> 02:49:31.620 that you would potentially have 02:49:31.629 --> 02:49:34.860 knowledge to ? Well , I 02:49:35.660 --> 02:49:37.882 II , I want him to look at the timeline 02:49:37.969 --> 02:49:40.230 and , and just , and I wanna ask him 02:49:40.240 --> 02:49:43.049 about the ventilation systems being 02:49:43.059 --> 02:49:45.610 opened as reflected on the timeline 02:49:47.379 --> 02:49:50.639 as far as him being informed by the VDR 02:49:50.650 --> 02:49:53.360 that he hasn't referenced . I don't 02:49:53.370 --> 02:49:56.040 particularly find that helpful in this 02:49:56.049 --> 02:49:58.271 scenario . If it's an estimation of his 02:49:58.271 --> 02:50:00.216 memory that would be the extent to 02:50:00.216 --> 02:50:02.919 which he's informing us personally , 02:50:11.950 --> 02:50:14.172 I suppose . I'm , I'm a little confused 02:50:14.172 --> 02:50:16.709 here . The , and , and the reference 02:50:16.719 --> 02:50:18.940 that I have is the timeline indicates 02:50:19.919 --> 02:50:23.519 the timeline indicates that the events 02:50:23.530 --> 02:50:26.169 were opened at around 02:50:26.549 --> 02:50:30.169 1145 local time , which 02:50:30.179 --> 02:50:33.519 was from my understanding was about an 02:50:33.530 --> 02:50:35.549 hour after the firefighters had 02:50:35.559 --> 02:50:38.099 declared Mayday , that's based on the 02:50:38.110 --> 02:50:40.709 timeline . And I just wanna ask him if 02:50:40.719 --> 02:50:44.309 that's consistent , but if not , I'll 02:50:44.320 --> 02:50:46.376 move , I'll , I'll move on . It's ok 02:50:46.376 --> 02:50:48.487 with me and Mr Look , should you , if 02:50:48.487 --> 02:50:50.820 you don't mind me saying this , uh , uh , 02:50:51.610 --> 02:50:54.080 II I would prefer if you , you , as you 02:50:54.160 --> 02:50:57.019 said . Yeah , thanks . If you could ask 02:50:57.030 --> 02:51:00.599 it a different way . So if 02:51:00.610 --> 02:51:04.280 the , if the benefit here is for him to 02:51:04.290 --> 02:51:06.346 be able to be like specific with the 02:51:06.346 --> 02:51:10.339 timeline , I don't know how that would 02:51:10.349 --> 02:51:14.269 necessarily change what we're trying to 02:51:14.280 --> 02:51:16.599 draw from this witness . Ok , I'll move 02:51:16.610 --> 02:51:18.759 on . I , I really don't need to press 02:51:18.769 --> 02:51:20.700 it . Ok . Um , 02:51:29.889 --> 02:51:30.889 uh , 02:51:34.219 --> 02:51:36.330 ok . Uh , one last topic , sir , when 02:51:36.330 --> 02:51:38.219 you were on deck 10 and you , you 02:51:38.219 --> 02:51:41.480 hooked up the fire hose . You , you , 02:51:41.490 --> 02:51:44.000 you , who were you with ? We have chief 02:51:44.009 --> 02:51:46.900 Officer , is that the first mate or is 02:51:46.910 --> 02:51:49.021 that , is that the chief , what's his 02:51:49.021 --> 02:51:51.990 name ? Uh , Benito La Fucci . Benito . 02:51:52.070 --> 02:51:54.559 So it's the first officer . Yeah . So , 02:51:54.570 --> 02:51:57.509 yeah , Chief chief Officer . Yeah . Ok . 02:51:57.620 --> 02:52:00.540 So , uh , the two of you hooked up the 02:52:00.549 --> 02:52:04.219 hoses , correct ? Yes . 02:52:04.349 --> 02:52:06.460 Ok . And you were on the nozzle . You 02:52:06.460 --> 02:52:08.293 were holding the hose . Yeah , I 02:52:08.293 --> 02:52:10.469 connected the , the nozzle to the hose 02:52:10.480 --> 02:52:13.019 and the chief mate , uh , Benito was , 02:52:13.030 --> 02:52:14.752 uh , calling , uh , was , uh , 02:52:14.752 --> 02:52:17.400 connecting the hose to the hydrant and 02:52:17.410 --> 02:52:19.889 opening the valve after , I don't know 02:52:19.900 --> 02:52:22.570 who made it first , but , uh , this is 02:52:22.580 --> 02:52:26.070 what we do , what we did . Sure . Um , 02:52:27.429 --> 02:52:31.120 but you had to wait because there was 02:52:31.129 --> 02:52:35.080 no water coming out of the hose . Yes , 02:52:35.089 --> 02:52:37.370 we connected and we were waiting for 02:52:37.379 --> 02:52:40.820 the water . So , yeah , uh , while I 02:52:40.830 --> 02:52:43.919 was there , no , with a chief officer , 02:52:43.929 --> 02:52:46.599 no water came out for this horse . 02:52:47.169 --> 02:52:50.240 About how long were you there ? Waiting 02:52:50.250 --> 02:52:54.230 for the water to come out . We didn't 02:52:54.240 --> 02:52:56.120 wait too much . It was very fast 02:52:56.129 --> 02:52:58.280 because the smoke , the , the black 02:52:58.290 --> 02:53:00.660 smoke from the car covered the entire 02:53:00.669 --> 02:53:04.530 area very fast . So , since I 02:53:04.540 --> 02:53:06.839 arrived in deck 10 , until I left , it 02:53:06.849 --> 02:53:09.849 was very , very fast . We had time to 02:53:09.860 --> 02:53:13.370 connect it and to open and we saw it's 02:53:13.379 --> 02:53:16.269 not , uh , coming out , uh , water and , 02:53:16.280 --> 02:53:18.790 uh , the water , the , the smoke was 02:53:18.799 --> 02:53:21.330 already coming to our site . So we had 02:53:21.339 --> 02:53:25.219 to re and from here . Yeah , I , I'm 02:53:25.230 --> 02:53:28.150 sorry , that's hard over the computer , 02:53:28.160 --> 02:53:30.493 but I didn't mean to interrupt you . Um , 02:53:30.493 --> 02:53:33.000 you've said very fast , but I don't 02:53:33.009 --> 02:53:35.490 really know what that means . So , can 02:53:35.500 --> 02:53:37.556 you give me an estimate of about how 02:53:37.556 --> 02:53:39.929 long you waited for water before the 02:53:39.940 --> 02:53:43.049 smoke , uh , came over and you decided 02:53:43.059 --> 02:53:46.030 you couldn't do it . I can't estimate 02:53:46.040 --> 02:53:49.250 because I never checked my watch . So I 02:53:49.259 --> 02:53:52.540 can't say . But , uh , taking in con , 02:53:52.549 --> 02:53:54.950 in consideration that I am young , it 02:53:54.959 --> 02:53:57.292 was very fast and because of adrenaline , 02:53:57.292 --> 02:54:00.940 it was very fast . So , may I 02:54:00.950 --> 02:54:03.440 let me ask it this way ? Was it more 02:54:03.450 --> 02:54:05.506 than a minute that you were standing 02:54:05.506 --> 02:54:08.209 there holding the hose ? I don't know . 02:54:08.219 --> 02:54:10.490 As I said , I don't know . I can 02:54:10.500 --> 02:54:13.169 estimate something . I don't know . 02:54:22.740 --> 02:54:25.230 Ok . Um , ok , thanks very much . I 02:54:25.240 --> 02:54:27.296 don't , I don't have anything else . 02:54:27.296 --> 02:54:31.290 Thank you . You're welcome . I'm , I'm , 02:54:31.299 --> 02:54:33.790 I'm finished . Thank you . Ok , thank 02:54:33.799 --> 02:54:35.860 you . Uh Are there any follow up 02:54:35.870 --> 02:54:38.092 questions from the investigation team ? 02:54:44.559 --> 02:54:46.879 I do have , uh , two , I guess 02:54:46.889 --> 02:54:49.167 commander . Ok . Go ahead , Mr Marnham . 02:54:49.167 --> 02:54:52.469 That's it . All right . Um Mr Mr Chuma , 02:54:52.480 --> 02:54:54.536 uh , just a couple of questions here 02:54:54.536 --> 02:54:56.820 for clarification for me . Um , on the 02:54:56.830 --> 02:54:59.150 location . Where was the Jeep when you 02:54:59.160 --> 02:55:01.382 saw the smoke coming out of it ? Was it 02:55:01.382 --> 02:55:02.493 on board the ship ? 02:55:05.419 --> 02:55:08.639 Uh , so when I saw the , the smoke out 02:55:08.650 --> 02:55:10.650 from , uh , you mean in the morning 02:55:10.650 --> 02:55:13.799 time ? The , the white ? Yes . Yes . 02:55:13.809 --> 02:55:16.240 When I saw it , it was already on board . 02:55:16.250 --> 02:55:18.750 I , as I said before I replied to , I 02:55:18.759 --> 02:55:21.419 don't know to whom I don't know if it 02:55:21.429 --> 02:55:23.719 was from outside from the shores with 02:55:23.730 --> 02:55:26.330 the smoke , but I saw it only when it 02:55:26.339 --> 02:55:30.150 was on , uh , oo on board 02:55:30.160 --> 02:55:32.839 our vessel ? All right . So was it on 02:55:32.849 --> 02:55:35.929 the ramp leading from shore to deck 02:55:35.940 --> 02:55:38.780 three or was it on the flat area or was 02:55:38.790 --> 02:55:41.959 it on the ramp going to deck six was on 02:55:41.969 --> 02:55:44.302 the deck three on deck three , you know , 02:55:44.302 --> 02:55:47.230 on the flat area ? Ok . Between the two 02:55:47.240 --> 02:55:50.929 ramps ? Gotcha . Uh , and then , 02:55:51.230 --> 02:55:53.540 uh , just to circle back on the , the 02:55:53.549 --> 02:55:56.179 ventilation . Uh , when you were on 02:55:56.190 --> 02:55:59.769 deck 12 liaison liaising between the 02:55:59.780 --> 02:56:02.690 fire department and the captain , uh , 02:56:02.700 --> 02:56:04.644 you indicated that ventilation was 02:56:04.644 --> 02:56:07.599 turned on twice . Correct . Correct . 02:56:08.830 --> 02:56:12.650 And um , do you know if it was 02:56:12.660 --> 02:56:16.019 turned on twice ? Um , just trying to 02:56:16.030 --> 02:56:18.820 determine , was it before they brought 02:56:18.830 --> 02:56:21.179 the firefighter up turned on twice or 02:56:21.190 --> 02:56:24.849 was it once before and once after ? So 02:56:24.860 --> 02:56:27.959 both openings were before the first 02:56:27.969 --> 02:56:31.679 body was outside before I , I , uh I uh 02:56:31.690 --> 02:56:34.209 I saw the , the first body , these two 02:56:34.219 --> 02:56:37.410 were before . Ok . And then , 02:56:37.759 --> 02:56:41.389 um , how did , did you become 02:56:41.400 --> 02:56:44.230 aware that there is a Mayday called 02:56:44.240 --> 02:56:46.129 from the fire department that was 02:56:46.129 --> 02:56:48.990 operating ? They were in trouble ? No . 02:56:49.620 --> 02:56:53.450 So , as I said before , at some point , 02:56:53.799 --> 02:56:57.280 I uh I become aware that uh 02:56:57.290 --> 02:57:00.660 11 person is missing and after they 02:57:00.669 --> 02:57:02.891 bring the first person , I become aware 02:57:02.891 --> 02:57:06.599 of the second one . But uh as I said , 02:57:06.610 --> 02:57:09.690 I , uh I uh I become aware of this 02:57:09.700 --> 02:57:13.190 information from the , from the firemen , 02:57:13.200 --> 02:57:15.549 from the firemen , not from uh other 02:57:15.559 --> 02:57:17.615 people from , I don't know if it was 02:57:17.615 --> 02:57:19.837 the , the team leader , but I find uh I 02:57:19.837 --> 02:57:21.892 found from , uh , some of , uh , the 02:57:21.892 --> 02:57:24.679 firemen which was near me . So when you 02:57:24.690 --> 02:57:27.280 found out they were missing , uh , had 02:57:27.290 --> 02:57:29.457 the ventilation already been turned on 02:57:29.457 --> 02:57:31.623 before that , or was the request after 02:57:31.623 --> 02:57:34.400 that ? Can you repeat ? 02:57:35.400 --> 02:57:37.809 So when the first time the ventilation 02:57:37.820 --> 02:57:40.570 was turned on , was it before you were 02:57:40.580 --> 02:57:42.469 notified that there was a missing 02:57:42.469 --> 02:57:45.500 fireman or was it after ? As I said , I 02:57:45.509 --> 02:57:48.599 think several times I , I've become 02:57:48.610 --> 02:57:51.429 aware at some point here , I told you 02:57:51.440 --> 02:57:54.339 how , but I don't know if I become 02:57:54.349 --> 02:57:58.309 aware of the missing person before the , 02:57:58.320 --> 02:58:00.719 the opening of , uh , or after . I 02:58:00.730 --> 02:58:02.841 don't remember , I know that I become 02:58:02.841 --> 02:58:05.349 aware and I told you how , but I don't 02:58:05.360 --> 02:58:08.769 remember when it's before or after . Ok . 02:58:09.200 --> 02:58:12.290 And how about why did the fire firemen 02:58:12.299 --> 02:58:14.549 when he requested ventilation ? Did he 02:58:14.559 --> 02:58:16.615 tell you why he wanted it all turned 02:58:16.615 --> 02:58:20.040 off at some point ? 02:58:20.339 --> 02:58:22.450 That's why I told you at some point . 02:58:22.509 --> 02:58:25.900 They , uh , they told me to , to open 02:58:25.910 --> 02:58:29.040 the , the ventilation because , uh , 02:58:29.230 --> 02:58:31.639 they need to see how the fire will 02:58:31.650 --> 02:58:34.480 react . And , uh , I don't know if , uh , 02:58:34.490 --> 02:58:37.599 he told me this , uh , after I told him 02:58:37.610 --> 02:58:39.610 if you open the fire will spread or 02:58:39.620 --> 02:58:42.639 before . But , uh , he told me this 02:58:42.650 --> 02:58:44.761 because they want to see how the fire 02:58:44.761 --> 02:58:47.860 will react . But do you remember him at 02:58:47.870 --> 02:58:50.419 any point saying that they wanted the 02:58:50.429 --> 02:58:52.910 ventilation turned on in order to help 02:58:52.919 --> 02:58:56.820 locate a missing fireman No , I don't 02:58:56.830 --> 02:58:59.339 remember this as I said , I , I don't 02:58:59.349 --> 02:59:02.469 remember when I find , when I found out , 02:59:02.480 --> 02:59:04.839 I remember that I found out when I was 02:59:04.849 --> 02:59:07.500 in that position somewhere in vet place , 02:59:07.629 --> 02:59:10.830 near the , near the staircase . But I 02:59:10.839 --> 02:59:13.849 don't know when or how I remember that . 02:59:13.870 --> 02:59:16.240 I , I found out from them but I don't 02:59:16.250 --> 02:59:19.559 know , uh , in what circumstances . All 02:59:19.580 --> 02:59:21.858 right . Gotcha . All right . Thank you . 02:59:21.858 --> 02:59:24.191 That's all the questions I have for you . 02:59:24.191 --> 02:59:27.950 Ok . Lieutenant Commander Ward . Did 02:59:27.959 --> 02:59:31.030 you have a follow up question ? I did 02:59:31.040 --> 02:59:33.269 um , good afternoon . I just wanted to 02:59:33.280 --> 02:59:35.910 specify um , the testimony that you've 02:59:35.919 --> 02:59:38.830 previously provided and uh , prior to 02:59:38.839 --> 02:59:41.009 this um , testimony today . So , have 02:59:41.019 --> 02:59:42.963 you ever talked to the Coast Guard 02:59:42.963 --> 02:59:45.759 before today ? No , I never talked to 02:59:45.769 --> 02:59:47.991 Coast Guard . The only thing I did with 02:59:47.991 --> 02:59:50.389 Coast Guard , I write this , uh , 02:59:50.400 --> 02:59:53.089 statement , my statement on paper , uh , 02:59:53.099 --> 02:59:56.349 right after the incident . Ok . And 02:59:56.360 --> 02:59:58.582 have you ever talked to another federal 02:59:58.582 --> 03:00:01.849 agency in regards to the incident ? Uh , 03:00:01.919 --> 03:00:03.863 can you repeat , please ? Have you 03:00:03.870 --> 03:00:07.790 talked to any other federal agency ? Uh , 03:00:07.799 --> 03:00:10.570 I don't know if they were federal 03:00:10.580 --> 03:00:13.160 agency . I have one testimony when I 03:00:13.169 --> 03:00:16.349 was in uh United States , but I don't 03:00:16.360 --> 03:00:18.549 know which party or parties were there 03:00:18.559 --> 03:00:21.330 were federal or ? Ok . So there's , 03:00:21.339 --> 03:00:23.339 there's one prior occasion that you 03:00:23.339 --> 03:00:25.570 provided testimony for this case on ? 03:00:25.709 --> 03:00:28.080 Yes . Ok . Do you remember what , what 03:00:28.089 --> 03:00:31.070 month that was , uh , 03:00:31.200 --> 03:00:34.549 somewhere somewhere 03:00:34.559 --> 03:00:38.480 in September ? Ok . Before , uh , 03:00:38.490 --> 03:00:41.379 we were uh we were given the approved 03:00:41.389 --> 03:00:43.278 one to , to , to leave the United 03:00:43.278 --> 03:00:46.450 States . So some , some at that point . 03:00:46.929 --> 03:00:50.490 Ok . Um And so that's the only occasion 03:00:50.500 --> 03:00:52.333 that you previously talked about 03:00:52.333 --> 03:00:54.950 witnessing smoke . Yes , that's the , 03:00:54.959 --> 03:00:57.910 the first uh uh in September was the 03:00:57.919 --> 03:01:01.379 first uh time . Ok . Um That's all I 03:01:01.389 --> 03:01:03.849 have . Thank you . Welcome . 03:01:09.389 --> 03:01:11.611 Ok . Thank you . Uh Any other follow up 03:01:11.611 --> 03:01:13.833 questions from the investigation team ? 03:01:19.940 --> 03:01:22.429 Ok . Uh Hearing none . Uh Mr Chal , I 03:01:22.440 --> 03:01:24.879 want to thank you for your time uh and 03:01:24.889 --> 03:01:27.559 testimony today . Um You are subject to 03:01:27.570 --> 03:01:29.403 recall uh if we have any further 03:01:29.403 --> 03:01:31.919 questions uh in the sequestration order , 03:01:31.969 --> 03:01:34.599 uh that we spoke about uh previously uh 03:01:34.610 --> 03:01:36.777 remains in place until you're notified 03:01:36.777 --> 03:01:38.999 by Lieutenant Reid our recorder uh that 03:01:38.999 --> 03:01:41.709 you are released from that . Uh The ti 03:01:41.769 --> 03:01:45.570 the time is now uh 12:21 p.m. Eastern 03:01:45.580 --> 03:01:47.650 Standard Time . Uh The hearing will 03:01:47.660 --> 03:01:49.827 remain in recess pending scheduling of 03:01:49.827 --> 03:01:51.827 any additional uh virtual testimony 03:01:51.827 --> 03:01:54.049 from other witnesses . Uh Thank you and 03:01:54.049 --> 03:01:54.969 we'll end the recording here .