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so it does have
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again . Yeah .
Yeah . So I take the blame that
it's a so I
I got it . Yeah ,
that for yes ,
good afternoon and welcome to the Air
Force Material Commands , July
mentoring event . My name is Jennifer
Bauer . I'm the chief of the personnel
programs division in the Air Force Life
Cycle Management Center assigned at
Wright Patterson Air Force Base and
will serve as your moderator for
today's engagement . In
2022 the Air Force Material Command
embarked on a path to deploy a robust
cross cultural mentoring campaign
focused on providing inclusive
mentoring opportunities . Now , at the
heart of this effort is ensuring that
airmen across the command have the
opportunity to be mentored regardless
of personal life experience ,
geographic and socioeconomic background ,
education , background , work
experience , physical ability ,
philosophical and spiritual perspective ,
age race and more . Today's event is
sponsored by the Air Force Material
Command , civilian personnel action
analysis match com barrier analysis
working group . This is a non
attribution event we're recording with
closed captioning turned on and the
recording following today's event will
be available on the Air Force Material
commands public affairs website .
It is now my distinct pleasure to
introduce the civilian personnel action
analysis , coch champions for opening
remarks before we launch into our
mentoring event today . Joining me now ,
I'm pleased to introduce to you Mr
Ronald Rain Command Council
headquarters , Air Force Material
Command and Miss Tammy Lyons , Deputy
Director for manpower , personnel and
services directorate headquarters , Air
Force Material Command , sir . And
ma'am the floor is yours .
Thank you Jennifer . Um So first let me
start by apologizing to everybody
attending this event uh due to
technical difficulties , well beyond my
capabilities , my camera is not working
right now . Um Maybe I can get it to
work before it's all said and done .
But until then , you'll just have to
hear my voice . So it is uh it is my
distinct pleasure and honor to co host
this cross cultural mentoring event
with MS Lyons . Our Mad Bog team has
assembled two outstanding panels to
talk about how we as supervisors and
employees can build workplace cultures
of inclusion , respect , accountability
and fairness . So I'm excited to hear
from our panel members today and I hope
you are too and thank you all so much
for attending MS Lyons . Thank you , Mr
Radon . I just wanted to take a minute
uh before we start to thank every one
of the participants for taking time out
of your busy day to spend with us . And
we hope that you'll find some valuable
information to take away from today's
discussion discussion , um and apply it
in your daily lives and even your daily
work lives . Um And a big thank you to
our guest panel members . Uh I believe
they will add a lot to our discussion
today because they come from various um
parts of our command and represent
different uh parts of our uh um
civilian workforce . So with that , I
will turn it back over to Jennifer .
Great . Thank you , sir . And ma'am , I
appreciate both of your opening remarks
for today . Uh For those who have
participated in past mentoring events
this year , today's event may look and
feel a little different than past
events over the course of our event .
Today . You will , you have heard we'll
offer not one but two separate
leadership panels . Our first panel
today will discuss the efforts of the
civilian personnel action analysis
match bog and the second will address
the importance of crucial conversations
without fear of adverse action to
promote positive conduct , a culture of
inclusion and mutual respect . Today ,
you'll have the opportunity to hear
from a total of six diverse panelists
from across the command in numerous
grades , ranks and locations at the end
of today's session time has been
reserved to also answer questions from
you , our audience . It's our aim to
answer not only those questions
submitted to our team in advance of
today's event , but also questions from
each of you that may arise as you tune
in to today's discussion . If you do
have questions for our panelists ,
today , we do ask that you please use
the chat feature to post your question .
And at the end of both panels , uh
we'll begin asking your questions
allowed for our panelists to answer .
So without further delay , it's my
pleasure to welcome our first panel to
join me today . Uh Once again , I'm
pleased to have joining me , our coch
champions for the civilian Personnel
Action analysis match bog , Mr Ronald
Bratton and Miss Tammy Lyons joining
them today . I'm also excited to
introduce Mr Keith Tickle , the A F MC
Chief Diversity Equity Inclusion and
accessibility Officer to each of our
panelists . Thank you for joining us
today and let's dive right into today's
topic . Our first question
today is for Mr Rain and Miss
Lions . Can you both address the
purpose of the civilian personnel
action analysis match bog and what
efforts your team has worked on thus
far , sir . I'll turn it to you first
then over to Miss Lyons . Yes .
Um So , so thank you Jennifer . Um Yeah ,
so I'll take the first part of the
question and then I'll and then I'll
turn it over to MS Lyons . Um So the
civilian personnel action analysis
match bog is um is one of eight match
bogs in A F MC and its purpose like the
other seven match bogs is in
executing the direction that we have to
ensure equal opportunity in all
personnel administration and management
matters throughout the employment life
cycle . So if you think about that ,
there's a lot of touch points in the
employment life cycle from , from
onboarding until , until retirement ,
if you will . But unlike other match
bogs , uh we , we're gonna look at this
through the lens of the personnel
action itself rather than uh through
the lens of a specific demographic
group . So , so the A F I tells
us that we should be evaluating
employment practices to identify and
eliminate barriers that hamper the
advancement of any individual on the
basis of race , color , creed ,
religion , so forth . So , you know ,
the purpose of our match blog is to
look at the data and see if a group is ,
is over represented in a civilian
personnel action . And if we see that ,
then we want to do a further deep dive
to see if there are any potential
barriers , maybe a policy or practice
or a procedure that could be causing
the disparity . Um you know , and , and
then if we see that that should suggest
in a mitigation strategy , for example ,
maybe mandating a new procedure or
training . And so we'll look to do that
and , and after some time has passed ,
we'll look to see if the disparities
have been reduced or eliminated . So
that in a nutshell is sort of a purpose ,
but we had two lines of effort and I'd
like to turn it over to MS lines and
let her kind of pick it up from there .
Thank you , Mr Rain . So , um yes , the ,
our uh CPA A match bog has been working
on two different efforts . Uh Our first
effort was um truly looking at a
variety of adverse actions and
um doing that analysis across the
command to see if we had any um
particular concerns um on uh
was discipline and the um associated
adverse actions being accomplished um
uh equitably across uh our , our
commands . So uh our team , we
had a team of experts from uh the
employee relations area as well as the
legal staff looking at individual cases
and evaluating those cases um through
the lens of um uh what we call
Douglas factors that help us determine
whether or not um the discipline was ,
was taken appropriately . And because
of that , we have developed some tools
that will support our employee and
management uh relations specialists as
well as those legal um
advisors so that we can consistently
approach civilian discipline um through
the same lens across the command ,
these tools have been deployed um at
the end of may . And so we're , we're ,
we are going to continue to evaluate
um uh discipline throughout the command .
Uh As we move forward , we want to see ,
you know , what kinds of things these
particular um changes in policy have
had on what we uh are seeing through ,
through the data . Um Our second team
is actually just beginning um some of
their analysis um looking at
um what we call non rating based awards .
And so these are awards that are given
outside of the DP map process or the
act demo or lab demo process um for uh
um a variety of reasons , but
normally for a special act or a notable
achievement . And what they're trying
to do is look at um all kinds of things
that the policies that are currently in
place , looking at the approaches
different centers have taken to
awarding and recognizing employee uh
um um contributions and
performance . And so we're looking to
make sure that we're taking best
practices from all of the centers . And
again , ensuring that our recognition
programs are uh looking at
uh um awarding and recognizing
um employees equitably across our
command . So both of these uh these
lines of effort , uh we take a
lot of time um but we do believe the
results from these lines of effort uh
re put into place the appropriate
policy um and procedures to take care
of our employees . Thank you , Jennifer .
Wonderful . Thank you both so much for
your responses to our first question
today . Our second question uh is also
for Miss Lyons . So what you described
your team's efforts specifically
focused on analyzing adverse actions
sounds really relative to our
discussion today on crucial
conversations without fear of adverse
action . So to help frame that
discussion for today , uh can you
explain what an adverse action is
through the lens of discipline and the
role that an adverse action plays in
the workplace . Absolutely . So , when
we look at the , um , uh , uh , air
Force instruction on a , um ,
discipline and adverse actions , um ,
it , it tells us that it's supervisors
and managers have the responsibility to
take discipline or adverse action for ,
um , all , only for such cause to
promote the efficiency of the service .
We should not be , um , utilizing , um ,
discipline or adverse action um to
against an employee based on a pro
prohibited personnel practice . So the ,
that's one of the things that , you
know , the uh um instruction really ,
you know , uh cautions us to use the
appropriate lens when we're looking at
discipline action or , and the adverse
action that might result from that . So
discipline is an action that management
takes to correct an employee's
delinquency or misconduct . So , these
can include anything from an
admonishment , a reprimand to a
suspension or even a removal . Um And
so those are the variety of actions
that our team was looking at and an
adverse action is really something that
ultimately impacts an employee's pay .
So a suspension , you know , even a
suspension of one , one day is
considered an adverse action up to
removal . Um And it could even
uh include reduction in grade or , or
some other reduction in pay . So those
are the , the lenses that we looked at
um , for discipline and adverse action
when you take uh , adverse you know ,
discipline or adverse action . We do
apply the Douglas factors and um ,
Douglas factors help , um , in making
sure that we're um , con
considering a lot of different factors
in what level of discipline or adverse
action that we take . So maybe the ,
the behavior wasn't so egregious that
it really should , uh , be a suspension ,
but maybe just a counseling or even an
oral admonishment and the Douglass
factors help us to determine what that
severity should be . So , um you'll
hear a little bit more about Douglas
factors and , and other questions that
we talk about today . Um But these are
things that we really looked at to make
sure that um when we are applying
um discipline across the command that
we're uh uh taking into consideration
these 12 different Douglas factors ,
we're documenting that and making them
part of the case as we move forward .
Um Again , because we , we want to make
sure that we are looking at discipline
with that lens of promoting efficiency
of service and not um basing those on
any type of pro prohibited personnel
practice . Thank you , Jennifer . Great .
Thank you , ma'am . All right . Our
next question today is first for Mr
Rain . Uh and this time also for Mr
Tickle . So at the heart of the
discussion is really this idea of what
standard we hold all airmen to and a
kind of culture that we want to promote
across the Air force . How can leaders
mentors and others effectively bring
that ideal environment into reality in
our work centers . I'll turn this
question first to Mr Rat and then to Mr
Tickle for his insights as well .
All right . Well , thanks . Uh Thanks
again , Jennifer . And , and it's an
excellent question , you know , as the ,
the , the purpose of the match bog
implies , uh we expect all of our
employees to , to treat each other with ,
with dignity and respect . So the
culture we want to promote uh is first
uh I guess this is a foundational thing
one in which there is no unlawful
workplace discrimination . But beyond
that , we want a culture where every
employee can reach their full potential .
So when , when it comes to making that
a reality , uh leaders , leaders need
to recognize the strength of the team
and of every individual member of the
team to treat everyone fairly and
avoid favoritism or the appearance of
favoritism . So part of that is
recognizing and correcting for all of
us as leaders and supervisors need to
be doing this all the time correcting
for mental shortcuts . We all take like
confirmation bias or unconscious bias
that might be limiting employees'
ability to reach their full potential .
Um Additionally , I would say leaders
need to professionally develop all
their employees , give them the
resources , the education , the
training that they need to reach their
full potential . They also it's
incumbent on us as leaders . Um Again ,
if we want to inculcate this culture
where everyone reach can reach their
full potential to provide constructive
feedback . Uh There's no better way to
show that you respect an employee than
to do that . Um This can be
uncomfortable or difficult . Um But
that's why we spend so much time in ,
in supervisory and in leadership
courses uh working on it . And finally ,
I would say um it's incumbent on
leaders to be as transparent as
possible . So transparency is important
because it shows trust and trust is
the ultimate enabler of a high
performing workforce where everybody is
achieving their full potential . And it
also combats any negative narratives
that that might develop because of , of
incomplete facts being out there . So I
think those are the ways in which in
which leaders and supervisors can
try to shape the culture in a positive
way . So
now it's my honor to uh to pass this on
to Keith Tickle who um uh you know , II
I very rarely get an opportunity to
share the stage with Keith , which is
just as well because um he's truly the
expert in all these areas . So Keith
over you . Thank you uh sir . And , and
you know , Mr Rat , you , he , he hit a
theme about reaching full potential and
trust . And so it's important that we
as leaders , you know , we understand
we operate under a license from those
we lead and serve and you know , and as
such , we bear a huge responsibility to
help our employees succeed , not just
perform better but to become better and
perform with a purpose . And Simon
Cynic , you know , II I do a lot of
research on Simon Cynic , but he always
talks about it's not about being in
charge , but taking care of those in
your charge . And so taking care of an
employee is making an ideal environment
for them to succeed . And so to do this
uh and bring about that ideal
environment . We must be leaders that
trust and inspire those in our church ,
right ? And so the fundamental beliefs
of trust and inspirational leadership
is number one is to model who you are
right to trust , how you lead and it
inspires others to connect to their why .
And these three stewardship when you
bring them all together , creates that
framework to unleash the greatness
inside of everyone that's in our charge
and drive this incredible performing
organization . And in turn creates the
environment we choose or in most desire
across the air force , you know ,
trusting and inspirational leadership
starts with the belief that every
leader should understand that people
are creative , collaborative and full
of potential . Um We need to remove
barriers um to get them to that
potentials and , and employees have
seen it time and again , employees with
this kind of leader are inspired to
become the best versions of themselves
and they produce their best work in an
in an ideal environment . Research
shows us that employees don't want to
be managed , they truly want to be led .
And so when we trust and inspire , it's
a powerful approach to create that
ideal environment that we take from
theory to reality . And , and that's
where we wanna go over to you ,
Jennifer . Thank you . All right .
Thank you so much uh to our three panel
members today . Uh and for the opening
dialogue that you've provided us as
part of our first segment during this
event and really helping us to get
ready for our second segment . Today .
I'd now like to welcome to today's
event . Our panelists for segment two
where we'll talk about the importance
of crucial conversations without fear
of adverse action to promote positive
conduct and a culture of inclusion and
mutual respect . So joining me today
for this portion of our event , it's my
pleasure . Welcome , Colonel Sergio
Rios , Vice Commander 78th Air Base
Wing , Miss Denise Albert , Chief
Diversity Equity and Inclusion ,
Officer Air Force Nuclear Weapons
Center , and Mr Alexander Romo , the
fabrication flight production
superintendent at the 4/12 maintenance
squadron Air Force Test Center .
Similar to our last segment . We'll
jump right in and begin our discussion
on this idea of incorporating crucial
conversations into our work centers
without fear of saying the wrong thing
to ensure we're continuously
encouraging and promoting positive
conduct and a culture of inclusion and
respect . Our first question today is
for Coronel Rios and Mr Romo as leaders
in your organizations . How do you set
the tone for acceptable and
unacceptable behavior and conduct in
your work centers ? I'll turn this
first to Colonel Rios , then to Mr Romo .
Uh , thank you , MS Bauer . Um , big
shoes to fill after Mr Rat and Miss
Lions and Mr Tickle . So , uh , here
I'll , I'll give you my , uh , my best
shot . Um , it's , it's a tough
question . Right . It's a tough
question that it had me pondering for a
while as to how to best answer it . Um
I'll give you my perspective . Um As a
leader , all eyes are on you , you set
the tone , um your team is gonna feed
off your energy , um your example ,
your professionalism , and most
importantly , your values , if they say ,
if you say they're gonna do something
and then you do something else . Um
your , your name , you know , your
reputation is slowly gonna get uh
watered down as well . Um I strongly
believe that leaders as leaders , we ,
we work for our people . So , uh in ,
in many , many years since I joined the
Air Force 23 years ago , we always
talked about , you know , the , the the
pyramid , right ? The pyramid is where
the leaders on top . Um And uh in my
eyes , the the leader doesn't do that .
We should be looking at things from an
inverted pyramid , right ? Where the
leaders at the bottom uh supporting
those that help drive the mission
success . I always tell people here at
Robins Air Force Base . Um , I , I
don't know how to paint a jet . I don't
know how to fix a jet . I don't know
how to do , uh , Dei A right . As , as
Mr and his team do here , I don't know
a lot of that stuff . So my job
inherently is to support the team that
helps support the mission here at
Robbins Air Force Base . Um , but all
the while too . Right . Um , Just
because you're at the bottom , working
for the people , you have to hold
people accountable when needed . And
most importantly , you know , in all
this as a leader , you have to admit
publicly when you're wrong , that shows
that shows that you , you're a person ,
you make mistakes as well . Um
unacceptable behaviors in our workplace
and in our force are not something that
we should tolerate and we need to be
able to hold people accountable when
this happens . Um It can be a difficult
conversation to have , but no , I said
difficult , I didn't say impossible .
Uh We owe it to our team to provide
vision and guidance . It's our
responsibility to ensure our teams uh
that our team knows the institutions
and our personal red lines . So think
about it from a flight line example ,
if you cross that red line , you're
going to be held accountable . And if
you don't have access , you , you're
gonna be held accountable , right by
security forces , maybe some other air
crew . What are those red lines for you
as a leader within your organization .
And do your people understand that ? Um
Personally , I believe that leaders ,
we set the tone by being out and about
with your team . Uh You set the tone by
communicating and getting educated what
the team is actively working on it ,
right ? You can't do this from behind
the desk . Um You set the tone by not
accepting mediocrity . Can you set the
tone by knowing the standards ? I , I
believe uh 36 1 47 and 1 48 are
great foundational tools for those of
you that are getting started uh to
baseline , you know , to use them for
your organization . Um , here with an A
F MC . This is my first tour in A F MC
in particular because the sheer number
of civilians , 19,000 civilian airmen
here at Robbins . I found it as to set
the tone . It's my responsibility to
ensure that we value our civilian
airmen with civilian decorations . Like
M Lyon said with S Aes ays or N A
awards service pins and certificates ,
right ? Five year service pin , 20
years , service pin . And in some cases ,
well , on the base marquee , we've had
civilian airmen on this institution on
this , in this installation , but I've
been here for 40 50 years now . I'll
leave you with this and I'll , I'll
pass on , you know , pass on to my
other panel member . Uh I love quotes .
I think Mr tickle , you know , hit ,
hit them by Simon from one of my
favorites . Uh I'll , I'll give you one
by Sam Walton , by the founder of
Walmart , is that leaders go out of
their way to boost the self esteem of
their person . And if people believe in
themselves , it's amazing what they can
accomplish .
Wow . Well , uh , thank you , Colonel .
That was , that was great . That was
gonna be hard to follow up . Uh And
thank you Jennifer uh for this
opportunity . So , um from my
perspective , uh you know , because I'm
on the ground here , I'm , I'm still a
maintainer . I consider myself that .
So , uh setting the tone for uh
acceptable and unacceptable behavior
here , um unacceptable behavior , you
know , is , is not to be tolerated ,
you know , it's uh it's definitely not
tolerated in my work center . So , uh
and I think we set that tone by
addressing it right away , you know ,
no delay in my experience if you let a
day or a week go by , you know , it's
probably a chance that you're never
going to address it at all . So , um
you know , how do you go about
addressing unacceptable behavior as a
supervisor , right ? Um Training ,
right ? All that supervising training
comes into play , you know ,
understanding the rules and procedures
and knowing the difference between
nondisciplinary and disciplinary
actions is uh vital , you know , so ,
you know , when the time comes , you
have to bring your employee in and uh
have that conversation , determine what
action to take , you know . So if
you're still unsure about it , you know ,
seek help , you know , contact labor
relations and I'll set you on the right
path . But uh the main thing to take
away is you , you have to take some
type of action , right ? So , uh trust
me , when I say your , your workforce
is waiting to see what you're gonna do
and your actions will set the tone for
the rest of the workforce . Um So what
about setting the tone for acceptable
behavior ? Um Daffy
36-1 48 states that we should set a
good example . So go ahead and do that ,
you know , lead by example , you know ,
have your leaders do the same and hold
them accountable . Also , if they get
out of line , you know , your behavior
and the behavior of your leaders is on
full display . So make it count every
day , teach your leaders to take care
of their employees , help them solve
problems and resolve issues . Have
their back when times are tough and
protect them when they're in need . And
I think if you keep that up , you know ,
eventually they'll place their trust in
you . I believe that's the foundation
of uh building a solid team . You thank
you . Thank you both so
much for your inputs on our first
question for our second panel today .
Uh I'll now go to our um second
question and now for this question is ,
uh , we've heard about how to set the
right tone for acceptable conduct and
behavior and maybe where the rubber
meets the road is when we find that
someone's conduct or behavior are not
meeting Air Force standards . So for Mr
Romo , as well as M Elbert , can you
talk about a time that you observed
someone's behavior or conduct did not
meet the Air Force standards ? What
strategies or steps did you take to
really look at the situation in an
unbiased and an impartial manner to
understand the issue and address the
situation at hand ? I'll turn this
question first back to Mr Romo , then
over to Miss Albert . All right .
Thank you , Jennifer . Uh , yes , I , I
do recall , um , an incident where an
employee of mine was observed , you
know , demonstrating rude and angry
behavior . Um , years ago when I became
a first level supervisor to wait with
employees , um , I inherited a
individual that had , had a pretty good
reputation for being problematic . Um ,
he had a history , being difficult
managed and , uh , but being his new
supervisor , I wanted to start a
relationship , you know , fresh and
with open mind . So , um , I had to sit
down with him and , uh , talked about
his past history and , uh , went over
what my expectations were of him , you
know . So I assured him that , you know ,
that's how I would judge him from that
point forward , you know , kind of a
semi clean slate or so . So , um ,
months went by and , uh , I had a
pretty good handle of , of him , you
know , it was , uh , various times
where he would start to get out of hand
anger issues and things like that . Um ,
but I learned , uh , as long as I could
get a whole , you know , calm him down
before things spun out of hand . Uh ,
it , it , it never really got to that
point . You know , it got out of hand
and , uh I made sure that the rest of
my crew followed the same lines , right ?
We kind of kept an eye on him , right ?
Even all the customers I would have ,
you know , interactions with them and
know what to expect and they knew about
him and things of that matter . Right .
Well , uh , you know , one day I came
into work and I was called to my
supervisor office and he , uh proceeded
to inform me about the incident
involving the same employee , you know ,
took place , uh , outside our work
center and had a business on base . So
apparently my employee was there and
wasn't receiving the uh , customer
service that thought that he was
supposed to receive . So , you know ,
it really set him off and , you know ,
there was nobody there to talk him down .
So , uh he lost it right , yelling and
arguing and uh it , it was causing a
scene , he was really angry , um , all
to the point . Where , uh , there was a
customer there that kinda tried to get
a hold of him and , uh , him out and
things like that . It turned out the
customer wasn't just an ordinary
customer . I was a high ranking , uh ,
person on base and , uh , somehow got
his name and tracked him down and , uh ,
tracked him to our work center . So ,
of course I had to come in and , uh , I
was directed to start all the
procedures , you know , investigations
and witness statements , 9 71 entries ,
uh , meetings with the union and uh a
lot of consultation with labor
relations . And , uh when it finally
came down time to it to determine the
level of discipline , I had to do the
Douglas factors . So , um , I learned a
lot from this incident but , uh , what
I recall the most , uh were , in fact
those Douglas factors , you know ,
after answering those 12 questions , I
realized that my anger was driving the
level of punishment that I was
recommending . And I was pretty mad ,
you know , uh , about the whole
situation and not about really the
offense that took place , but because
of all the work I had to do , it's ,
it's by no means a pleasure to do , you
know , as a , especially as a new
supervisor and learning all the stuff .
So I , I remember there was days where ,
you know , I just didn't want to come
to work , right . But I , I pushed
through it and uh everything worked out
in the end . But uh so my advice to uh
supervisors out there who may find
themselves in a similar situation , you
know , the tools are there , you know ,
the resource , the resources are there
and uh talk with the labor relations
and fellow uh supervisors , read the A
I and go through the Douglas facts ,
you know , and that'll , that'll help
you get through any kind of situation
like that . Thank you .
Thank you Jennifer for the opportunity .
Um Unlike Mr Romo , I haven't had a
chance to actually have a people to
supervise . But for over a decade , I
was an employee wellness specialist and
several of the supervisors leaned on me
to help them in these particular
situations . I do recall an employee
who received a new supervisor . Um She
was extremely rude and , and angry at
him because he was not letting her do
what the previous supervisor did . And
this is one of our challenges . We
sometimes don't realize that we fall
into this gap where the person before
us may have been kind but was not
following the rules . And this was the
case with this particular employee .
She was extremely disrespectful , she
was angry , she did not understand why
the supervisor just couldn't follow his
uh predecessor . And so when I came in ,
one of the things , we have to make
very clear with uh our employees , our
supervisors , there are rules , there
are standards you're hearing the
regulations being quoted today . When
you go through those 12 Douglas Factors ,
you can't even start them without
knowing that the foundation has been
established of what our standard is and
what is expected , not only of our
employees but al also of ourselves . Uh
I kindly had to let this lady know that
even though her previous supervisor
allowed her to check on her , uh ,
medically challenged parent , we have
paperwork for that . We have FML A
processes and paperwork that can be
established that give us the necessary
coverage to allow an employee to go
ahead and take care of their parent .
That is the proper way to do it , that
reduces liability . She did not
understand that at all . So I basically
broke it down for her and said your
previous supervisor did not do the
right thing . They set you up to think
that it was ok to just go check on mom
with no coverage , no paperwork , no
leave , no anything . That's not the
way we do things in the Air Force .
Your new supervisor is doing it the
proper way , but your response is
unbecoming . So you're
putting yourself in a position to make
things worse for yourself because you
did not realize the right thing was not
being done . And so we have to make
sure that our employees understand that
there are processes and procedures ,
there are regulations because several
people go to the new hire briefing ,
they hear everything but they don't
take in everything it goes in . It's a
lot of information . So supervisors
have to reiterate some of their roles ,
some of the regulations , some of the
expectations , definitely the standard .
We , we walk as an example of the
standard . Some supervisors don't even
know what the Douglas factor is . A a
and you can go around because this was
my job at one time to ask people what
they know and what they didn't know .
And I've got a decade of a lot of folks
that do not know . And so in the case
of this particular su supervisor and
subordinate , once everything was put
in place properly and to our standard
and to the regulations that protect the
Air Force and allow the employee to do
that , which is in their heart to do
while serving and reversing the
disrespect . Uh We , we had a good
outcome . She could still check on her
mom . She was covered by her FML A ,
her job is intact . Her supervisor
shows himself responsible and
everything was good . So these are the
things that we really , you have to
come and ask , what do you know what
don't , you know , look at the
situation from all um aspects . Thank
you . Perfect . Thank you both for your
thoughts on that question . Uh So as we
progress to our next question , and I
think we've heard this come up in um
several responses from our panel
members today . So when we observe
inappropriate behavior or maybe conduct
in our work centers . Sometimes the
easy answer could be to ignore that
issue . But as leaders and also as
mentors , we asked , have those
difficult conversations . So what
strategies have you used or what have
you done to prepare for those difficult
interpersonal conversations with
someone ? Are there any techniques ?
Are there strategies , are there uh is
there training that you've relied on
that's helped you to navigate those
crucial conversations with ease and
effectively communicate to the
individual ? I'll turn this one first
back to Miss Albert , then Colonel Rios ,
I'll invite him to join in on this
question as well . Jennifer . That is
such a powerful uh question . So many
of us believe that we are good
communicators , but to have a crucial
conversation , a difficult conversation ,
you have to have strong communication
skills and it starts with a level of
self awareness . We heard it earlier
that you , you don't want to let time
go . Why I , I like pitchers . I'm
picturing not addressing the weeds in
my lawn and sooner or later the weeds
overrun my lawn . But if I had pulled
up those weeds , when I immediately saw
it , the less likelihood of the
overrunning would have taken place . So
as soon as we see conduct , I'm
becoming , as soon as we see a need for
uh a crucial conversation , we have to
go into um action , we have to take
action . It starts with self-awareness .
We've already heard today that we come
with biases and we will operate in
those biases if we're not self-aware of
where they come from . And so you have
to check yourself . You have to have a
level of vulnerability as a leader .
First and foremost , you have to have a
level of empathy . You have to find out
where you're supporting it , where your
team members are before you can come to
them with this crucial conversation
Because many people will shut down
before they even say a word . If they
believe there's no empathy there and no
caring . We already heard . Uh Rio say
that the pyramid should be upside down
because I always thought if we left it
the way it was , it's easier to pluck
the liter off the top than to pull a
worker from in between the whole card
will the whole card house will come
down if you pull the wrong card from
down below . But if we pull the one on
top , they could stand and we'll just
put another one on top . So I really
believe on that inverted one because
leaders are the influencers . And so to
have a difficult discussion with
someone , you have to first come with a
level of empathy , then get clarity ,
clarity on the situation , clarity on
possible solutions or resolutions , uh
clarity on the guidance and regulations
that we have because to hear the
situation and not be able to do
anything about it still leaves us in
the conundrum , we'll be stuck right
there . And so with empathy and clarity ,
I believe that we can come to
resolution sooner than later . And
people will understand that they're
being observed . There is a level of
understanding and caring and resolution
is always possible before it escalates .
So once again , self-awareness , be
aware of your biases , know where your
support systems show up and be able to
listen as well as speak because that is
a powerful communication skill when
we're doing problem solving . Thank you ,
Joe .
Hey Jennifer , this is uh El Rios . I'm
just waiting for that video to start up
here and uh taking notes on uh Miss
Albert . I mean , she gave you some ,
some great , you know , uh tidbits of
advice there . Um The , the garden ,
the uh the cards I'm over here , you
know , jotting stuff down uh really ,
really quick . Um Hey , you know , just
listening to Miss Albert , right ? Uh I
just uh had a , had an idea , right ?
Um I tell people all the time and I ,
and I share this , you know , I'm a new
wing commander . Um I share this with
everybody is that every position in the
United States Air Force is a
developmental position . So don't go in
it thinking that you know what you're
gonna do , right ? You're gonna make
mistakes . Even the Chief of staff of
the Air Force , it's a developmental
position , you know , General Brown
didn't even walk in and know exactly
what he was gonna be doing on day one
and , and figure out all the problems
for the Air Force . So take it easy on
yourself . As you , as you work through
this , you're gonna make mistakes , get
yourself back up and , and keep going .
So , um to answer this question , I , I
kind of have some thoughts um uh along
the line here . Um First and foremost
is the American public has continuously
held dod and its members in very high
regard . Uh This public trust is a
direct result of groundbreaking
initiatives . We've installed our force
uh to include advancing equality , uh
civil rights , overall quality of a
opportunity through a system of
fairness that is aimed at protecting
equal opportunity for all . Um And this
trust is instilled in us because those
have come before us and those now have
had difficult conversations . So we ,
this isn't brand new , right ? We've
had difficult conversations for a long
time now . Uh personally , I strongly
believe you need to understand your
strengths and weaknesses , kind of like
what M Albert was saying , right , in
order to continue to improve as a
person and as a leader . Um there are
three techniques I wanna share with you
today . Uh That kind of , I often
reference to help me with these
difficult and uh oftentimes crucial
conversations . Number one , I had a
psychology professor and folks , I'm
telling you , I'm batting 1000 on this
one . Um asked three times three times
is the magic number . How many times
have you passed somebody in the hallway
and said , hey , Mary , how's it going ?
Great . How are you doing ? Awesome .
And that's it . What did you get out of
that conversation ? Nothing . You know ,
Mary is doing great . What is , what is
that ? Don't know . So ask three times ,
right ? Uh , get to know your people .
So the next time Mary passes in the
hallway and says , hi Mary , how are
you ? How are you doing ? I'm doing
great . Hey , Mary , what does great
look like ? Question number two . Well ,
you know , uh I'm looking for , I'm
gonna spend , uh , I'm , I'm looking
forward to the weekend because I'm
gonna spend some time with my daughter
who's coming in from Arizona and she's
gonna bring the grandkids . Oh ,
awesome . What are you guys gonna be
doing if you don't mind me asking ? Hey ,
we're gonna do some shopping and we're
gonna , you know , bake and we're gonna
do this and we're gonna , whatever the
case might be , that conversation
probably is gonna take anywhere from 30
seconds to one minute . You could have
passed Mary and she could have said
great or you could ask three questions
and get to know Mary on a different
level because the next time that you
talk to Mary and she , she doesn't ,
doesn't look herself , you know that
because you know Mary , right ? Um If
you know your people , you can adjust
multiple things like the inflection in
your voice the way you approach them ,
uh , about a specific topic . Uh , the
best time to have a conversation . Mary ,
maybe Mary's a morning person . She'll
tell you right . But maybe in the
afternoon she just hits a slump . It's
ok . Different people require different
things . Three questions . Uh , I've
done it to my spouse . I do it to my
kids . My kids always tell me how a
school . Right . Um , or what does , uh ,
look like ? Well , we had a test today .
Oh , really ? Would you have a test in
three questions ? I had it in math .
What did you get ? 85 ? I could have
done better . But you know , this and
that . So it went from , uh , to all
that , right ? So three times , um ,
anybody taking four lenses training one
of my favorite trainings in the air
force , right ? Um , I told you I have
some kids at home . I have four kids at
home . My oldest is an orange . I can
ask her to do something , but I'm
probably gonna have to ask her three or
four times and then put it , post it on
her forehead and say , don't forget to
do this . Why ? Because she's , she's a
scatter and she's all over the place ,
right ? She's , she's a million miles
an hour now . My son who's a blue and
gold , very organized , very emotional .
I probably read a post it after I asked
him to do something and say thank you
for doing that . It really means a lot
to me and that connects with my son ,
right ? So we use the same
communication method to talk to our ,
our team , things aren't gonna go as
well , we think , right ? You have to
know your team last , but not least you
have to be an active acknowledge what
the person is saying . Your , your tone ,
your posture , facial expression , say
a lot if I'm coming to you and I have a
difficult conversation I want to have
with you or I wanna open up to you as ,
as a leader , as a supervisor and
you're like this the entire time or
you're looking at your watch . What
does that say right now ? Same
psychology who told me , hey , uh three
times also that a uh awkward silence is
often a great thing . Endure the past ,
hesitate to jump in and say something .
Sometimes that pause means more than
you can think . Um Conversations can
often be more impactful when you help
foster a culture of psychological
safety within your organization , right ?
People are gonna feel like they can
talk to you . People are gonna be able
to communicate with others and it's ok
if they don't communicate with you ,
sometimes they're having those crucial
conversations with fellow coworkers ,
right ? Because a crucial conversation
can be , can ask for help , right ? Or
resource . Um While the
answer we , well , the easy answer is
to ignore the problem as leaders we're
not paid to ignore problems . A mentor
of mine , my old MS G commander from a
few years ago , I wanna say , uh always
used to tell me if you're in the front
of the line as a leader and you go the
way to pick up a piece of trash ,
chances are others behind . You will
also notice that and start picking up
trash . But if you're in the front of
the line as a leader and you go around
that piece of trash , you step over
that piece of trash . Chances are that
others will too . So you've got to set
that tone . Um I told you , I love
coats and you know , Mr Tickle used the
Simonne co quote already . Uh So I'll ,
I'll leave you with another one and
great leaders don't need to act to
their confidence and humility served to
underscore the toughness . I hope that
gives you a little uh insight as to
what I use as some of the tools to have
these difficult and crucial
conversations uh with my team .
Perfect . Thank you both for your
thoughts on that question . Uh We'll
now move on to our next question .
So the question is , um the environment ,
the culture and the climate , they're
so important and they're an integral
part of why crucial conversations are
important to ensure that we're
constantly promoting Air Force
standards and values . What are the
ways that you keep a pulse on the
culture and climate ? Of your workforce ,
either through , through a formal means
or even through those that you have
developed and deployed . This question
is first for Colonel Rios , then over
to Mr Romo ,
uh something that Colonel Rios has to
share is that Colonel Rios is uh it
illiterate and uh trying to turn on his
video and uh can't seem to do it . So I
will continue trying here . Uh I
shouldn't have gotten off video . Um
But great question um in , in my 23
year career , right ? I , I've got the
privilege and honor of working
alongside a lot of civilians , a lot of
military members uh that helped shape
my leadership philosophy . Uh That's
where this is coming from , right ?
This is , this is where the , this uh
this thought process is coming from .
Uh So I use it , utilize a multitude of
ways to keep up the pulse . One of the
best pieces of advice that ever came in
my air force career was from my wife ,
uh 23 years ago , I was having the time
of my life with a squadron commander
and I loved everything about it . And
then another squadron commander came
and I wasn't having a great time and
she and I was ready to get out of the
Air Force and she said the , the best
piece of advice . Hey , did you like
what the previous , you know , squadron
commander was doing ? I , I Yes , yes ,
absolutely . And do , do you like what
the current squadron commanders ? No .
Have you not heard me ? You know , I ,
I clean up every night . She goes ,
well , tell you what , why don't you
have two buckets and all the things
that you , like , put them in one
bucket , right ? Keep the lid open and
those things that you don't like , put
them in the other bucket and keep the
lid closed and don't ever use that when
you're a squadron commander , right ?
When you get an opportunity to lead
people of that magnitude , don't do
that . So it's always stuck with me ,
right ? Um To , and to answer this
question too , one of the most
important things in my book is why send
an email when you can have a face to
face conversation . Ok . Um Sometimes
emails . I , I , we get them over and
over and over again . Why don't you
walk out from it , you know , from out ,
out , out your office , off your , your
desk and stuff and have a , have a
conversation instead of , um , even on
teams right now that we're doing some
telework . Hey , you know what ? Turn
on your camera , have a face to face
conversation . Sometimes that goes a
long way . Um , meet your team at their
place . Relationships don't build
relationships , you know , through text
or through emails , get to know your
people . Um Another point I wanna
stress is build a trusted advisor
network . Um These are individuals who
serve as your , your trusted advisers .
They have no problem whatsoever telling
you if you messed up or , uh , these
individuals were not gonna sugar coat
things . They're gonna tell you exactly
what's going on . Um , my wife
personally , I talked to you and told
you that she give me the best advice .
My air force career has been the
president and CEO of my network for
years . And , uh you try commanding an ,
or being a vice wing commander um with
someone who sees things from an
entirely indifferent lens and then ,
hey , you did wrong . You could have
done this and you know what ? It , you
have to swallow that , that , that ego ,
you have to swallow that pride and go ,
you know what ? You're absolutely right .
Because if you're seeing it , chances
are I didn't communicate . Um
We all , we all
of us have some financial
issues that
make sure that
right where you get truly off these or
away from your desk , uh as a native
Texan , I'll tell you one of my
favorites is chili cook off . You know ,
it goes on and the chili cook off and
everybody has a different kind of
chilly and it let people see you in a
different way . It lets you see as a
person uh as a , as everything else ,
right ? Because you're out there having
fun . Um um Colonel
Rios . I , I'm sorry to interrupt you .
I'm sorry to interrupt you . You're
coming in just a little bit choppy . I
was gonna suggest if you'd like to try
turning off your video , we might be
able to hear your calms a little bit
clearer . Thank you , sir . I blame , I
will blame the network , ok ? Uh
Last but not least um you set the
example a as the vice uh you will
never see my light on past six or 6:03
p.m. I make it a point . Get out and
have dinner with my family as much as
possible . I , I do this not only for
myself and my family , but to show
others that we have to disconnect and
maintain that healthy life work balance .
If people see my light going on ,
chances are they're gonna be like I
can't leave until the boss leaves ,
right ? So we have to make sure that we ,
we have a good uh work life balance as
much as possible . Sorry about the uh
it issues and uh look forward to any
questions from this
Mr Romo . I'll turn this question over
to you . It looks like you're on mute
right now .
Uh My apologies . Uh So from my
perspective , uh never really had to
try to develop a technique to monitor
the pulse of our workforce . Uh It's
something that just uh comes natural to
me . Uh To me it's uh really part of my
personality . You know , I'm a person
that genuinely enjoys interacting and
teaching and advising and just helping
anyone with anything . And I've always
been that way whether helping an airman
fix his car or give someone a ride to
the airport or move furniture on the
weekend for someone . You know , that's ,
that's how I developed my reputation .
Uh That's all uh our workforce uh views
me . So , uh now in a current position
of productions , these interactions
have grown . I'm , I'm out and about ,
I'm checking the shops , I'm uh talking
with workforce and having genuine
conversations and offering my health as
much as I can . So through these
interactions , I feel I have a constant
finger on the pulse of our fabrication
flight . And uh the benefit of that is
that it gives me the opportunity to
help identify and solve problems before
they get out of hand . You know , I
could sense just by a quick
conversation with the teammate that
something may be troubling . So
naturally I'll , I'll take the time and
try to resolve whatever situation that
may have , you know , maybe so , uh and
with that , you know , we start to
build a trust and in a friendship and
uh genuine respect for one another . So
my teammates know that they can come to
me for anything uh at any time and my
door is always open and uh that's the
type of culture we work to establish
and maintain here , treating people
with respect , showing them that we
really care about them and having a
passion for what we do . Uh I'm a firm
believer that when you have that
behavior and conduct improve , you know ,
in incidents , less , uh , people feel
positive energy and they want to be a
part of that type of team . Yeah , I'm
sure you're gonna have , uh , incidents
here and there that occur . But it's
usually with a few employees that don't
care and just aren't willing to , to
change or , uh , change their attitudes .
You know , those are the ones we need
to work on constantly and to get the
message to uh making sure we're
following through counseling and
elevating is necessary . So my flight
commander uh has a genuine love and
concern for our flight personnel
constantly voicing this to me . Right .
So our two philosophies , they mesh
well together and it shows um
same thing with uh my group commander ,
you know , the good colon , it's always
stressing people first , you know ,
respect genuine concern with our
workforce . And that's , that's the
example that we at the 4/12 are uh
trying to show and lead by . You know ,
this is uh what makes the team that I
am proud to be part of ? Thank you .
All right . Thank you for your
responses . Um Colonel Rios as well as
Mr Romo . All right . We're now heading
into our last question as part of
segment two as a reminder after we wrap
up segment two , we'll , now we'll then
dive into our audience Q and A uh for
all members of our panels to address
today . But before we wrap up segment
two , we'll end on this question with
the group . So this question is first
for Mr Romo , as well as for Miss
Albert . So we've talked about the role
that leaders and mentors play . But how
do we leverage everyone in our
workforce to have these crucial
conversations with when needed with
others to uphold the type of culture ,
the climate and the standards we want
to see across the Air Force . Uh Mr
Romo , I'll turn this to you first ,
then I'll turn this to Miss Albert .
Thank you . Yes . Uh
Jennifer . Uh Any time we have an issue
of someone not upholding the Air Force
standards . So we make sure to act upon
it may have been an issue that happened
on a different shift or that was
casually mentioned in a turnover or it
could have been something more severe
that comes down from the director . In
any case , it just can't be ignored ,
you know , so that duty to act falls
upon myself and my flight chief , uh
and all the leadership in our flight ,
we'll discuss it at a morning meeting
and decide how to address it . Is it
something minor that can be discussed
at a section roll call or is it
something to discuss at a weekly flight
call ? You know , it all depends on the
severity of the situation in the past .
We've had incidents where the director
himself will come down , either
requested by us or something that he
thought required immediate attention .
Should we request the colonel to come
down ? You know , he's always willing
to come down and , and help with this .
But I hope that uh it never gets to
that severity . But uh the main point
of this is uh you have to address those
situations , right ? You need to have
those crucial conversations and uh
those are the type of actions that will
make your own better . Thank you
Jennifer . As I listen to uh my
esteemed panel members talk , there's
been so much information that has gone
out and there's still questions about
what an air force standard looks like .
Well , first off , all that we do
should be in line with our air force
core values . That's integrity first
and that's a tall order right there .
Um Service before self excellence in
all we do and everything that we do
needs to reflect those core values .
Our standard is that we stand as an
example for the rest of society to
follow . So it's a tall order . I mean ,
when you're in uniform and I've worn
the uniform , uh you're held to those
standards even as a civil servant ,
you're held to those standards . You
ask , what can leaders do ? Leaders
inspire leaders , motivate leaders
influence . OK . Leaders do not manage .
We save management for paper , for
processes , procedures and practices ,
not people , leaders are for
people and what do mentors do ? Well ,
I heard a long time ago that a
mentoring team is probably better than
just one mentor . Now , if you can get
all what I'm about to share with you
and one person ding ding ding , that's
a bonus . But I was told that mentors
create many mes . So when you pick your
mentor , you're picking somebody that
you want to be just like work just as
hard attain , just what they've
attained and do what they do . A
mentoring team will consist of three
major people . A coach , coaches help
you with your performance . A champion ,
they help you uh follow the path of
your dreams , what you want to
accomplish . And then a cheerleader for
some of us , that's our mom , your own
personal water girl or water boy , you
can do it . And if you can find a
mentor that is both uh a coach and a
champion , great . If you can find a
mentor , that's all three , a coach , a
champion and a cheerlead . Like I said ,
you win the prize . A lot of us don't
pay attention to these things . But if
you find a good mentor , they will help
you with your performance so that you
can attain that what you strive for .
They will help you get to where you
want to go like all good champions do .
And then when you think you've had a
setback , your cheerleader will place
you back where you need to go . That's
the leverage that mentors and leaders
have when it comes to these , uh these
situations that we're talking about in
order to have those crucial
conversations that help you have to be
vulnerable and willing to share . When
I enter into a mentoring uh
relationship . I tell them it's cyclic ,
especially at this stage of life and
where I am , there's a lot for me to
learn . So as I share , I also learn
because it was said earlier that all of
us bring something to the table . All
of us are valuable . All of us help in
the defense of our nation and we are
all valuable to the Air Force . Thank
you for this opportunity . All
right . Thank you all so much for your
support . A special . Thank you to
Colonel Rios to Miss Albert and Mr Romo
for your thoughts and your insights
during segment two , I will now pivot
during our event . Today , we're
bringing all panelists back either on
screen or via audio . We'll begin
addressing questions that have been
received in advance of today's event .
We'll also work to address questions
that have submitted in the chat during
the course of today's session due to
our limited time . We do recognize we
may not be able to address all
questions live . So we will work to
respond to any questions we're unable
to address live following the event and
we'll make those answers available .
All right , our first question that we
received in advance of the event is on
um the topic of behavior . So this
first question is going to be for Mr
Tickle . Our first question is on the
topic of addressing behavior in a
manner that respects an employee's
dignity . Um A F I 36 1
48 explains that when a supervisor
finds that there's conduct that needs
improved , they're to do so in a way
that respects an employee's dignity ,
so to respect an employee's dignity ,
even when having a crucial conversation
on areas or ways for them to them to
improve . What does that mean to you ?
I'd like to turn this question first
over to Mr Tickle for his thoughts .
All right . Well , thank you , Jennifer .
That's , uh , quite a lot to unpack .
Um , and we'll certainly get to it . I
love the background of music to my , um ,
and we'll certainly get to it . I love
the background of music to my response .
Oh , all right . So we're back in
business . But , um , hey , so , uh , a
lot to unpack here . So let me just
kind of quickly reflect on this . I , I
will say this and , and , uh , an
underlying theme I hear a lot of people
talk about is , um , the accountability .
And here's another quote in Colonel
Rios . This is just a key tickle . Um ,
is the standard you walk by is the
standard you accept as a leader . And I
say that again , as a leader , the
standard you walk by is the standard
you accept . And I will tell you those
that are in your charge are watching
your leadership walk . So make sure
that secondly , this question , it's
important to note that , hey , not all
crucial conversations need to be
foundational to improvement areas . In
reality . I would say less than 10%
should be , you should be having
regular conversations , get to know
your employees , um tell them they're
doing a good job . Uh As Colonel Rubio
said , you know , the rule of three ,
it's , it's important to listen to our
employees . And you know , as a leader ,
I always try to understand , I listen
to understand not to fix . And my
spouse will tell you generally , it's
very hard for me not to listen to fix .
I Mr fix it . Um but I want , I , I
gotta practice better uh to listen to
understand . And I know that's a ,
that's a challenge for some of us
leaders because sometimes time is of
the essence , but let's listen to
understand and , and why is it so
important to listen in crucial
conversations outside of him ? You know ,
talking to someone about improvement
areas ? Because I say the language of
the unheard is rage , right ? So when
employees feel they're not being heard ,
they can exemplify rage and rage comes
in different formats . But research
will tell you the number one sign of
rage is an employee just shuts down and
in a constrained human capital
environment such as our work centers ,
we can't afford to have someone sit on
the sidelines . So just listening uh is
a great uh launch pad for crucial
conversations . Here's a good litmus
test for leaders and I challenge
leaders with this . If you walked up to
one a member that's in your charge
today and you say , hey , I'd like to
talk to you in an hour . Would they
spend that hour brow beating themselves
and automatically go defensive ? Am I
in trouble or are they excited and less
guarded ? And if they're excited and
less guarded , you're in the right area
for crucial conversations . But if
they're scared and nervous , maybe you
need to have more crucial conversations ,
right ? Um Because not every crucial
conversation has to be about improved
areas again . Um So when we unpack this
right , I wanna say , let's look at two
components . Number one is what is
respect and what is dignity when we
talk about respect and employees
respect . Historically , you've always
heard the term the golden rule do unto
others as you have them , do unto you
as you would want done unto you . Uh a
little bit back around about me . I , I ,
I'm am M ma fighter . I love kind of
just getting in the ring and , and
doing things . So if you want me to
treat you how I like to be treated ,
it's kind of neat . I , I enjoy it . Uh
But I don't think that's the rule . We
gotta move into what we call the
platinum rule and that's where
individuals want to be treated how they
want to be treated , right ? And so
we've got to remember that respect can
be subjective and just because I define
it one way doesn't mean it's
unilaterally defined that way . So it's
crucial to create a culture that values
this open dialogue , these mutual
understanding and routine discussions
where we , we just have conversations ,
sometimes those conversations are gonna
be about improvement in employees
behavior . Um but supervisor engagement
shouldn't be only foundational to that
time . We need to respect others .
Individuals want to be recognized for
great performance or simply just show
you care about what motivates me to
come to work , right ? And so those are
important things to me when you talk
about respect . So um during this
conversations , again , crucial
conversations , you , you gotta listen ,
pay attention to thoughts , opinions ,
their lived experiences and if they're
different , don't let bias creep in
because different doesn't mean it's
deficient , it's just different . And
so that's how we foster this trusting
environment , foundational to respect .
And then we move into the second
component that I heard . The question
was about dignity . And so when I ,
when I pull the thread about dignity ,
um it kind of is about how do I retain
the inherent worth and respect that
should be afforded to the employees ?
Right . So I'm about to go into this
meeting and I need to tell them they're
extremely valuable , but here are some
things that we could work on , right .
Um So dignity is about treating people
with uh fairness , empathy , empathy is
critical consideration of , you know ,
their lived experiences , their
well-being , right ? So it's an
important element that fosters a high
level of employee morale . So you take
both of these components , respect and
dignity and it shouldn't be a try to
established in that first time we go ,
I'm gonna go have a meeting that should
be foundational to everyone . We leave
and that's taking care of those in your
charge . So it should be happen day to
day basis . So when I tell my employee ,
hey , let's chat for a little bit ,
they should be sure excited and , and
what are we gonna talk about ?
Certainly talk about the family . Maybe
there's a reason performance is down
and maybe they're just not vulnerable
to share . But if you created a
psychologically safe space , they would
don't automatically go on the attack .
So you have to know the established
baseline um in regards to this crucial
conversation and then I'm gonna go into
this and I know the baseline and here's
what I'm going to do and how do I have
this conversation ? Um Number one is
maintain privacy , right ? Individuals
are , are , are , are inherently
private individuals and they it takes a
lot to share . So you got to maintain
privacy , conduct the , the discussion
in private , well away from others ,
you know , and sometimes privacy isn't .
I went into the off boss's office
behind a closed door and everyone
outside the closed door is talking ,
maybe it's like , hey , let's just go
to lunch , some austere location where
people can't see . So you wanna
maintain privacy and tone is critical .
Uh , different people react differently
to tone . I will tell you I grew up ,
my father was a football coach . I
played football all my life and the
tone he talked to me is totally
different than the tone . I would talk
to one of my employees , right ? And
while I may be acceptable to the tone ,
I couldn't talk to in the same tone
that I would talk to um my
peers on the football team , right ? So
tone is critical and then active
listening . What is active listening ?
Again ? It's not interrupting , it's
listening to understand , asking
clarifying questions , asking things
like Colonel Rio said , I wanna active
listen and I'm do the rule of three and
listen . And so we want to actively
listen , give the employee the air to
say , hey , this is why this behavior
might be happening . But then it comes
to a point where you got to provide
specific feedback . Don't give general
allies , don't try to sit and , and ,
and , and , and kind of tap down dance
around the issue . Focus on the
objective observations that you've seen
and , and make um objective decisions ,
not subjective feedback that may be
brought in from others and then offer
support and solutions . Um We've got to
get so we're in behind closed doors .
And hey , what can I do to support you ?
And this goes back to the inspire and
trust episode of leadership . I talked
about earlier . Inspire them , be a
part of the solution , not a part of
the problem . Um And then we , we kind
of wrap it up with um I , I
want to say , where do we wanna go from
here ? And how do we navigate through
this together ? You're not on an island ,
we're in this together . Um And so we
certainly have to do that . And so all
these steps are sequential , but this
crucial conversation shouldn't happen .
The very first time you have to give
someone feedback or anything , there
should have been a foundation
established that I can have these
conversations in a safe space without
judgment and empathetic understanding .
Um So that we can also combat sameness
because the way I talk and the way you
talk is different doesn't mean it's bad ,
it's just different and it's ok . So
applying the platinum rule um is very
important to us and , and I think these
crucial conversations have to be had as
soon as possible . You cannot let it
fester because individuals watching um
are seeing what you're doing , right ?
So you gotta be timely in this crucial
conversation and , and all of these
things come together and what I would
say preserves the employee's dignity ,
but more importantly , it fuels and
inspires their motivation to grow where
you need them over .
Great . Thank you so much , Mr Tickle .
All right . Our next question today is
for Miss Lyons . Uh The question is the
same department of the Air Force
instruction explains that supervisors
have a responsibility to establish ,
communicate and enforce reasonable
rules and standards of conduct . It
mentions in there that supervisors are
responsible to set a good example and
to model those standards in a hybrid
environment , in particular , how could
supervisors best provide or model
standards to their employees ? So I
think we've learned a lot from COVID .
Um and , you know , coming out of COVID
and where we are today , um I , I
personally think we have to ensure that
we're building that trust and
connectedness with our team . And how
do you do that , how , you know , and
how do you do that in a hybrid
environment ? There are some managers
that , you know , go uh to the extreme
and want to micromanage and some of
that , you know , erodes trust . So how
do we come up with that balance of
making sure that um we , we can
empower our team , trust our team . But
ultimately , our goal is to meet the
mission and deliver uh whatever that is
that our particular um unit does to ,
to meet the Air Force mission . And
um some of the ways I think uh leaders
can do that and I'll just talk about ,
you know , what I try to do is , you
know , I , I have to be reliable . Um ,
our employees need to feel like they
can come to us . You can count on me to
meet my commitment . So if I say I'm
going to do something , do it , it
don't say try if you , you know , think
that you're not gonna be able to do it ,
be honest and say that's not something
that I can get to delegate it to
someone else but be reliable . And so
we should be able to expect our
employees to be reliable too if they
believe they have too much to do . Let
us , you know , um , look and see how
we can prioritize the workload , make
sure that they're um , actually
concentrating on the right tasks . And ,
um , ultimately how we can meet that
mission if they're meeting roadblocks
or there are things that we can do as
supervisors to remove those barriers .
That's what we're there for . We need
to be able to be counted on and
reliable to help our employees meet
their mission . Um Also we need to be
accepting of all of our team members
and this comes down to , um , even
those that might have a divergent
opinion . Sometimes you go like , well ,
I want the , the people that are gonna
go follow along with me , it'll make it
easier . We'll get to the end . But
sometimes those divergent opinions help
us see the other side of this issue and
we may be able to meet the mission even
better . When we listen to all sides
of a particular issue , understand all
of those different inputs to that issue
and um move forward with a um
team approach to uh
whatever that that particular issue is .
So I hope that what I do in a hybrid
environment is making sure that even
those folks that are remote or are
teleworking on a particular day have an
opportunity to participate and feel
like they're um able to be accepted and
their opinion are accepted during that
discussion . Um And a couple of other
things is I need to be open . Um They
need to know that I'm not holding
things back or so supervisors where you
can and there are things that , you
know , uh we have to hold close , hold
sometimes . But if there is something
that we can share with our employees ,
we need to be open and transparent . Um
And what that also means is that I need
to be open to feedback . So if someone
feels like there is , there is
something that , hey , you know , miss
lines you need to stop doing or maybe
you should look at it in a different
manner , I need to be open to that .
And so , um I just , you know , really ,
um uh um encourage that , that
we're open and finally , um be
authentic . So you , you know , if , if
people see you , um and you don't know
that they're watching you , you need to
be authentic . So you know , walk the
walk , talk , the talk . Um , don't ,
you know , uh , put on AAA smiley face
and , and , you know , forever one but
behind closed doors , there's , there's
something else going on . Your
employees . Um , your peers are going
to appreciate that sometimes . Um ,
Miss Lyons isn't 100% happy all of the
time . She's going through some , um ,
uh issues and , and , uh , she needs to
be as vulnerable as sometimes , um ,
employees are . So I think all of those
things together , um build trust and
build connectedness . And when we do
that , we can be a stronger unit , a
better team and we can meet the mission
that , that we as um uh as air
force civilians , military members
every day need to come in and know that
we have um a responsibility to take
care of our , our peers and the war
fighters and those folks that will be
at the tip of the spear if they need to
be . So with that , I , that , that's
what I think I , I would uh encourage
is , you know , do everything you can
to build trust , build connectedness in
that hybrid environment . Thanks
Jennifer . Yes , ma'am . Thank you for
that . Um And this is a great segue
into the next question . We've received
a few questions in our chat um and be
designs . We've heard you talk about
how these relationships as a supervisor
can work successfully . Um But what
about the opposite of that ? Uh So the
next question that we have , I'll
actually direct to um three of our
panel members today uh to Mr Rain ,
then to Colonel Rios and then finally
to Keith Tickle . So this is the
question and it's a combination of a
few similar questions and themes we've
been seeing in the chat . So today ,
we've talked a lot about holding
employees as well as peers accountable
for behavior . Um But what should an
employee do if they're concerned a
superior is not encouraging , is not
promoting positive conduct or a culture
of inclusion or mutual respect . Um So
first , I'll turn it to Mr Rat and then
pass it to Colonel Rios and then
finally to Mr Tickle . Yeah ,
great , great question Jennifer . Um
And , and thanks , thanks for asking it ,
you know , as a , as a leader , I would
want the employee to come talk to me um
perhaps after they've talked to uh
their mentors and , and , and in this
regard , I , I love Miss Elbert's
description of what mentors uh can be .
They can be coaches , champions or
cheerleaders , probably not the
cheerleader . Um In this case , um
maybe the coach , the champion could ,
could help if , if you're an employee .
Um And I want him to come talk to , to
the , to the leader , the supervisor or
whoever it is that's not encouraging or
promoting a culture of inclusion or
mutual respect . Um in a way that's
that you shouldn't assume any ill
intent . Um you know , most folks are
good airmen and they're , they're just
trying to do their job as well as they
can . Uh But they , they may have blind
spots uh or they may not realize the
impact of their actions or their , or
their inaction . Uh So , so I , you
know , I certainly would want to be
given a chance to correct the problem
uh in the workplace . And I would say
that the employee , this could be a
golden opportunity , um , to , uh , and ,
and so you should come prepared to
offer your own thoughts on potential
solutions because I know if , you know ,
personally , if I were asked a question ,
like , or if I was , someone came to me
and said , look , I don't think you're
doing a very good job here . Um , you
know , the most important words
somebody once taught me was where to
always , you know , say , well , what ,
what , what would you think ? Or , or
I'm sorry , um , what would you do or
what , or , or what do you think ? And
I'm probably gonna , you know , and ,
and , and I would be sincere in , in
asking that question . So if the
employee came to me with , with the ,
with , with , with this issue , um , um ,
if they had , if they had some thoughts ,
I would , uh , I would certainly be
open to them . Um , um , I , I think
I'd be remiss if I didn't say if , if ,
obviously , if you think you've been ,
if an employee thinks they've been
subject to unlawful discrimination . Of
course , uh they can avail themselves
of the protections offered through the ,
uh through the EEO office . Um , but
with that , I guess I'll turn it over
to Colonel Rios .
Uh Thank you , Mr . Um , you know , Mr
Ran , hit , hit on a couple of points
that I was gonna focus on as well . Um
You know , I mentioned the trusted
advisor network . Um , it's your
mentors , right ? But being able to red
team this with others first , who's in
your trusted advisor network because
like Mr said , you might have a blind
spot , you might be looking at things
from a , you know , from a totally
different lens than that leader . And
you think your viewpoint is maybe the
one that , you know , is , is favorable
or the one that's right . Um So make
sure that you look at stuff from
multiple lenses . That's why I love
that trusted advisor network , you know ,
made up of a squadron commander ,
friends of mine , uh folks that I grew
up with , um my brother who's out in
the industry , right ? Civilian
industry , things that bounce uh you
know , uh stuff off of all the time .
Um And I think Mr kind of nailed it
right when he said I always bring a
solution to a problem . Once you're
done talking to your network , once
you're done red teaming , you know ,
this situation and you gotta have this
crucial difficult conversation , make
sure that , you know , if , if you get
the opportunity to address and say ,
hey , what would you do if you were in
my shoes , you have a solution and you
have a solution that's well thought out .
Um , and one that's so solid that
they're gonna agree with you and go ,
hey , you know what ? I didn't know , I
didn't know that or I didn't look at it
from that lens . I think you're right .
Let's go ahead and implement that over .
Ok . Well , um so uh my esteemed
colleagues , they brought up some great
points and I'll , I'll just pull the
thread on a couple . Um Number one is ,
um this is why psychological safety and
bias awareness are so critical . Uh as
we , we navigate through these crucial
conversations . So we need to really
understand and hopefully build that in
times when conflict doesn't exist . So
when conflict exists , it's already
readily available . Uh One thing we see
a lot of is the , the common intent
versus impact when you have two
individuals and , and , and , and
they're at a adversely uh opposing one
another and sometimes it's the
supervisor . Um you have to talk
through intent versus impact and , and
sometimes the intention isn't malicious .
Sometimes we individuals might take it
that way or other times it might be
malicious and those need to be
communicated back . So , intent versus
impact is always something that I
encourage leaders and employees to
navigate through , through crucial
conversations but sometimes , um the
psychologically safe environment just
isn't there and , and bias is i , is ,
is happening in , in conflict that
doesn't rise to the level of uh
discrimination might be transpiring
um for discrimination to happen . You
gotta have a harm or condition of
employment on a protected category .
But what if it's these behaviors that
just aren't conducive to an effective
work center ? Uh in a F MC , we've
established uh an anti harassment
function . Um And what is that , that's
in individuals that don't rise or
behaviors that don't rise to the level
of um discriminatory behaviors , but
they're just bad practices , right ? Uh
On the military side , we call it
bullying and hazing . On the civilian
side , we call it anti or workplace
harassment . Um Workplace harassment
can become unlawful if it's so
pervasive that it makes a hostile work
environment . Uh So what we do have in
our dei A functions um is an anti
harassment capacity . Uh I will tell
you at Robins Air Force Base , Doctor
Baptiste and Steve run a model one . We
have them at all A F MC installations .
I would encourage you to reach out and ,
and walk through those and those are
individuals that not necessarily
discrimination isn't happening , but
the behaviors are just not good . It's
not a psychologically safe environment .
I can't address this . Um And they will
help you walk through intent versus
impact with your leadership and engage
your leadership on , hey , let's just
have a crucial conversation . Um
Sometimes crucial conversations just
don't happen because the work center is
not conducive to it . So we help
facilitate what that is . So I'd
encourage people if you're experiencing
these that you go . Hm . Um , that's
really not discrimination , but it's
just unprofessional behavior or
something that doesn't sit right with
me . As Mr Retton said , give the
leader a chance to talk about intent
versus impact uh if it's not a
psychologically safe and you believe
bias exists , um We have an anti
harassment function that allows a third
party to come in and help facilitate uh
that discussion . But regardless of all
this as you navigate through these and ,
and when you have some differing
opinions , I always challenge leaders
and employees alike . Um is the enemy ,
the enemy or is the enemy , the
organization and those are some self
reflections that everyone could benefit
from as you navigate through conflict
or these types of behaviors in the work
center that don't rise a level of
discrimination over . Wonderful .
Thank you so much for your insights on
that question . Uh We are at time today
for our panel , I'll now turn this over
to Mr Rat and , and Miss Lyons for any
closing remarks that they have before
we wrap up today's session . So sir ,
ma'am , the floor is yours once more ?
Ok , Jennifer . Um uh let , let me ,
let me start . First of all , I just
want to uh send out some thank yous .
Uh certainly to uh some of the folks in
the background like Mandy and Marissa
who have helped to put this thing
together , uh Amy Noble and , and
especially Jennifer Boer , who once
again , two years in a row now has just
been done an amazing job moderating
this event . Um I actually want to
thank our panel members , particularly
in segment two , sort of our outside
the headquarters guest . We reached out
for the best and the brightest and
Colonel Rios and Mr Romo and MS Elbert
and boy , did they ever deliver ? You
know , we , we do a leadership
symposium up here at the headquarters a
couple of times a year and , and I'm
thinking we need to invite you guys to
uh to be part of that because honestly ,
at times , I felt like I was sitting
through not just an excellent mentoring
event , but an outstanding leadership
symposium and I was taking notes
furiously . I would , I , I and just by ,
by highlighting two or three things
that , that I heard that I think are
really important when we're talking
about um this , this culture that we
want to inculcate in our , in our , in
our organizations and our people . Um
um I love the discussion about empathy
and meeting employees where they are
and this is a mishmash of a couple of
different folks um uh about the , you
know , the uh to use Keith's uh term
that the platinum rule in , in treating
them the way they want to be treated .
Um , I , I liked the , the ask three
times . That's a great thing to
remember . I think I'd heard that once
before , but it's been a while and I
needed to be reminded of it and , and
kind of dovetail with that , the
importance of respecting diverse
opinions . Um , and , and then
here at the end , besides the enemy is
the enemy , which is a great little
phrase , Keith , I don't know where you
come up with these things . But um the
concept of psychological safety and
bias awareness , you know , I heard
several folks reference Simon Sick . He
has a uh he talks a lot about that in
his book , Leaders , leaders . So if
you , if you've never read that , add
that to your , to your list . Um and ,
and finally , um Keith , I think you've
talked about this litmus test that said ,
hey , I want to talk to you in an hour
and how do you think your employees
will react if , if you , if you said
that ? Um because if , if , if , if
they do go back to their office and
think I'm looking forward to that
conversation , I wonder what he wants
to talk to me about , then you are
undoubtedly on the right track of
creating the right kind of culture ,
promoting positive conduct that you're
modeling the right kind of behaviors
and your people are seeing it and then
you're building the trust and the
network that you need for your team and
for your team members to reach their
full potential . So again , thank you
to everybody on the team and I'm going
to let MS Lyons bring us home now .
Thank you . So II I
really don't have a whole lot to add .
Um Mr Rat , and you did a great job of
summing up a lot of what we heard today .
I mean , I think this has been a really
um motivational um uh uh
talk today and gave us a lot of ideas
on how we can apply them in our um
everyday work lives . I know there is
something that uh we want to share with
regard to the four lenses . So uh we're
going to um hand it back over to one of
our , our uh panel members , Miss
Albert to share a little bit more about
the four lenses and the opportunities
at that are offered at a base near our
employees . So , Miss Albert , I'm
gonna let you kind of sum up today and
give some really good resources to
those participants that have , have uh
joined us today . Thanks , Miss Elbert .
Thank you , Miss Lyons . And uh for my
voice to be the last voice , I have to
make this impacting the four lenses is
a temperament uh test that lets you
know your personality type . I have
used this because I am a certified uh
facilitator for four lenses . Teams
come out of this . So knowledgeable
communication skills are strengthened .
Productivity goes up because we
actually do learn how to meet our team
members and leaders at their very need
who they are and how they operate . Um
Just a synopsis blue people or the
party people , they'll pull up in a
minivan and invite everybody in . Our
green people are our analytical folks .
They are usually our engineers and the
folks that are problem solvers , our
goal people , our compliance people ,
they're the folks that when they write
the list , they write a checklist and
check off as they get it done . And of
course , our orange people are our bold
people . It's hard to rally them around ,
but they're the ones that will fly the
fighter jets and also run into the
burning buildings . They are necessary
for the freedom and the peace . When
you know how each person on your team
operates , you can meet them and talk
to them in a language that they
understand to accomplish the mission
and the goals . It is a two hour
presentation . Most uh for services
squadrons have certified people . If
your FSS doesn't have one of your
community support coordinator , uh
doesn't know , please contact uh me and
I will help you uh get that uh done and
accomplished . We don't like to do it
in the virtual realm . It definitely is
something that's more powerful in the
classroom . And uh that being said ,
it's just a way to uh see who you are
and operate at your best over .
Wonderful . Well , thank you so much ,
sir , ma'am , Miss Albert for your
closing remarks on behalf of the Air
Force Material Command , civilian
personnel action analysis . Match bog .
I'd again like to extend our sincere
appreciation to our panelists and also
to each of you for joining us from
across the command who tuned in . So
thanks again , we look forward to you
joining us at the next cross cultural
mentoring event . Thank you .