WEBVTT

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The Indo pacific visions podcast is an

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official product of the Journal of indo

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pacific Affairs . The program fosters

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intellectual international discourse on

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a wide array of topics associated with

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the indo pacific region , including

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international relations , foreign

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policy , National security allies and

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partners , geo economics , military

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history and more . It envisions an

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inclusive indo pacific that spans from

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the west coasts of the Americas to the

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eastern shores of africa and from

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Antarctica to the arctic and covering

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much of Asia and all of Oceania .

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Disclaimer . The views and opinions

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expressed or implied in this podcast

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are those of the authors and should not

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be construed as carrying the official

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sanction of the Department of Defense

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Department of the Air Force , Air

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Education and Training Command , a

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university or other agencies or

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departments of the U . S . Government

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or their international equivalents .

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This is the Indo pacific visions

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podcast . I welcome everyone to

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the podcast series by the Journal of

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Indo pacific Affairs . Today we have

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the pleasure to interact with Hyun Ji

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rim and she will share her views on

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south Korea and its role in the Indo

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pacific bong

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rim received her PhD from the john

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Hopkins University . Her PhD

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dissertation was on bettering alliance

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curbing the emergence of nuclear

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outlaws in East Asia . My expertise is

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in strategic competition , Indo pacific

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strategy , US Alliance , politics and

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East asian security dynamics as well as

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the U . S . Foreign policy in the east

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asian region . Her

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papers are published in the pacific

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review . Journal of indo pacific

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affairs and international Journal of

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korean unification studies .

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So today we have the pleasure

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to uh invite you spongy

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and we would like to hear your views on

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South Korea and the indo pacific and

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you're welcome to introduce yourself .

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Thank you Bandana and thank you for the

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wonderful opportunity . Um as a banana

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just mentioned . Um My research

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interest covers us RK alliance and in

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the pacific strategy and um east asian

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security dynamics and US foreign policy .

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Um Today I would like to talk about new

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unit administration in South Korea and

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ah it's new in the pacific vision .

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So um the new president like you

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er he will have his inauguration um

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early 10th . I want the

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20th presidential election in March and

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building up to the day of the election .

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It was , it went he went through the

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both of the candidates went through a

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muddy struggle and um I say mother

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struggle because the People's Party

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people's Power party and

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the Democratic party of Korea , they

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were really going at each other

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uncovering all the dirt um about the

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candidates . However , um you

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came out as a winner and with a record

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high voting rate of 70 plus uh

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Voting rate of 70% . And

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also um what is interesting is the he

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won by less than 1% percentage point ,

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which means um there will be a lot of

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challenges for you to embrace both

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parties , different ideas and different

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views across different issues .

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Mhm . Yeah . And uh you know , we've

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heard him speak about , you know ,

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ditching strategic ambiguity . So how

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his is his you know foreign policy plan

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different from the previous

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administration . Um There's a foreign

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policy piece that he did as a

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candidate um titled South Korea needs

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to step up . Uh in that article he

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talks about this strategic ambiguity of

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how um and I quote South Korea has

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failed to death to the growing

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strategic competition between the US

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and china maintaining an approach of

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strategic ambiguity without stating a

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principled position . Um This has

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raised both domestic and international

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concerns that sell maybe tilting

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towards Beijing and that the U . S . R .

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K . Alliance which is the linchpin of

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the stability and peace in the theater

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has been loosening

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and you and thus from the very

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beginning has been actively voicing out

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the importance of the strengthening of

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U . S . R . K . Alliance and hopes to

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use the strengthened alliance to expand

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South Korea role with more responsible

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attitude and international society .

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Mhm . Okay . And uh you know

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um as you mentioned that he's you know

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taking over power on 10th may and soon

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thereafter the US president is also

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visiting um President is due to

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visit Japan . And so so how do you see

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that right at the beginning of taking

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power , taking over power and then uh

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interacting with the U . S . President ,

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how you know this leading to the U . S .

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R . K . Relations um as

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he stated from the beginning he's on

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the course of strengthening US RK

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alliance and you can tell that from the

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media , domestic media coverage that um

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they're welcoming it and actually

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they're very excited for it , saying

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that one . Um it's taking pretty early

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on , it's taking within two weeks after

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his inauguration . Um which compared to

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past administration , this is um pretty

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uh and uh exciting and shocking .

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Um remember moon and trump uh

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summit took place after somewhat 50

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plus days after Moon's inauguration and

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park Obama similar I think longer 70

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plus days And and George W .

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Bush 54 days . So this is the record

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speed and um they're excited for it .

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And also the fact that how

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biden president biden is uh coming to

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South Korea . Seoul before going to

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Tokyo I think it is sending the right

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message from the United States to the

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South korean domestic list public that

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biden administration is too willing to

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commit to um US RK alliance and

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strengthening and deepening the

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relations . Mm hmm . And do you see

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uh that the US would be interested in

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pulling south Korea into the indo

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pacific um as there have been talks

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or you know , quack plus , do you

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do you think that U . S . Is trying to

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build a position for South Korea as

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well ? I think it's known that

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um during the moon administration um

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the United States wanted to talk to

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South Korea about joining the quad .

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But um I think it was victor cha who

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came out and said South Korea's

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position was , please don't bring that

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issue to the table . Um , so let's keep

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it out of the negotiation table . Uh ,

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and let's not really openly talk about

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it . But the difference is um I think

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us interest in having South Korea's

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support in quad and quad or quad plus

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or in its in the pacific strategy is

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still there . But the difference is ,

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you know , is now ready to commit to

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quad . He actually openly said in his

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interview with the , I think Washington

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post in april that union

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sees um South Korea joining the quad ,

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Yoon wants the quad for South

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Korea . But then he also mentioned

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that um for now , um

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quad , it's not really joining quad is

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not really up to South Korea , it's up

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to the quad members and how they decide

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on on the process . Um ,

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in my personal opinion , joining the

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quad or the quad plus , um , some form

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of quad plus institution . Um , it's

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actually a secondary issue and in my

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opinion , as long as korean

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commitment to the squad quad or quad

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plus in the pacific cooperation is

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there and as long as Korea openly

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advertise it , I think there shouldn't

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be a problem and I should be welcomed

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by the United States as well . Mm hmm .

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Yeah , you're right that so far , you

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know , the quad countries are not , you

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know that welcoming that there should

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be an extension . There's any other

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member added to the group . But yes ,

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there are possibilities of the quad

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plus and um It was , you know , it's

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been going on for a long time since

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2013 . Yeah . Okay .

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And and this is , you know , this is

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important because you know this

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development , this visit by President

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biden is important because then the

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quiet meeting is also upcoming in Tokyo

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which will be held in two . So you know ,

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so lots to watch out for . Yeah .

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And how do you see um what are the

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concerns for you ? You know

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about joining indo pacifico

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klas , what would be his , you know ,

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um any obstacles that you see that

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if South Korea openly and

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proactively engages in the plan

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which um you know like the quiet

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countries are coming up with and as

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biden is also insisting that free and

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open indo pacifique . So do you see any

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hindrances there ? Especially with

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china ? Um Mhm .

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So um when a young came out and

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said we need like a like a clear

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goal , clear fundamental strategy for

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South Korea and first thing we should

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do is ditch the strategic ambiguity

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ambiguity . Um but this does not of

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course , um it could Arc china or North

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Korea which poses threat to South Korea

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in different ways can art them and it

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may hurt them . Um so those two

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countries uh dealing with those two

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countries could be a little challenging

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but um committing to the

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quad or quad plus cooperation for South

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Korea . Um , it doesn't end

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doing away moving away from strategic

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ambiguity . It doesn't mean that you

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have to pick china or the United

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States of course , uh , for many

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countries in the world and other U . S .

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Allies , China is a big trade partner

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and so is china for Korea . And um ,

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there is certainly the economic

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interdependence is there . And um ,

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even with quad cooperation ,

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this economic relations can

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continue . Um , so ,

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um , I guess it's not a matter of

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A or B . It's more of how you deal

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with these networks and how you

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maneuver through these different

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different issue areas , uh , issue

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areas ? Mm hmm . Okay . So it will

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depend on how they handle it

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diplomatically . Right , right . I

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mean politically and constitutionally .

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Um , uh , South Korea

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pursues democracy and this value is

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not really upheld by china . So in

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the political realm , South Korea's

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interest more lies more with the United

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States and china . And even though you

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promote economic friendship or

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relationship with china , you can also

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at the same time pursue the same

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strategic value with the United States .

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And it shouldn't be a problem

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night . And how would you see this as

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you know with regard to not warrior ?

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What would be its implications ? It's

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active . First bit of indo pacific

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strategy and how will this , you know ,

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be regarding North Korea . How do you

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see , how do you see eun resolving the ,

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you know , relationships with North

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Korea . Mm hmm .

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Um , so , um , the

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Union , I think was used to be a public

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prosecutor before becoming entering the

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pollen entering politics and his legal

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background and belief is in law and

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justice . And this is actually

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reflected in his vision towards North

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Korea returning to fundamentals . He

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clarifies that North Korea is still the

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main enemy of soul by south korean

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constitution . And have openly argued

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that argued for North korean

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denuclearization . So his approach to

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North korean denuclearization , um ,

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was he approached his approach ,

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um , with a clear road map that shows

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variable and irreversible ,

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irreversible steps along with his call

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for , um , a strengthened alliance and

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deterrence . Um , I think it's it's a

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it's a step towards right direction .

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Um , however , North Korea seemed to

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think that the Union is a could be

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a hard nosed hard liner . But if

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you read what he wrote in foreign

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foreign affairs or the interview with

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the Washington post , he actually , um ,

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is not he supports , he's in support of

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humanitarian aid at any time . And he

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uh , actually is willing to commit

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to working with North Korea and provide

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economic incentives as north Korea goes

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through these processes . Mm

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hmm . Okay . Yeah , That's interesting .

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That's interesting to know . And South

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Korea recently tested the SlBM and

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hasn't been investing in military

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capability is advancing its military

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capabilities and emerging as , uh , you

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know , as a supplier in the region ? Um ,

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it's increasing military modernization ,

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both in the quantitative and

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qualitative terms ? Do you think it can

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lead to a arms race on

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the korean peninsula or

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um or you think that you know , this

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is the way for not for South Korea to

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move forward , proceed forward and

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establish itself as um as a recognized

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power in the region .

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Um As many states seek to

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strengthen their position in the new

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great power game strategic competition

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uh and they are investing in military

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modernization or upgrading military

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capabilities supported by all these new

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technologies and I should say emerging

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technologies . Um Some of them are not

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new . Um So South Korea to

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recently invested in um some of these

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technologies including a manned

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airborne intelligence , surveillance ,

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targeting and reconnaissance , uh iStar

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and offensive drones , unmanned aerial

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aerial vehicles and their navigation

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technology and so on . And these

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updates and modernization is one to

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counter um to improve its own s our

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capability encounter any provocations

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by the North Korea as well as someone

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gained that preemptive advantage over

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any potential provocations but at the

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same time beyond um North Korea

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of these . These uh

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modernization and pursuit of emerging

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technologies is somewhat beyond um It's

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not just confined to issues related to

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North Korea . It actually goes beyond

17:57.580 --> 18:01.320
the South korean peninsula . And I

18:01.320 --> 18:03.710
guess as I argue in my with the recent

18:03.710 --> 18:06.290
cheaper article um for soul , the

18:06.290 --> 18:09.980
strategic motives behind um pursuing

18:09.980 --> 18:12.091
these emerging technologies and their

18:12.091 --> 18:15.450
military applications are in um three

18:15.450 --> 18:18.350
folds . One is to strengthen US RK

18:18.350 --> 18:20.740
alliance and bring up that

18:20.740 --> 18:24.360
interoperability ah and to

18:24.360 --> 18:26.770
nurturing South korean defense industry

18:26.770 --> 18:28.992
which is really blooming these days and

18:28.992 --> 18:32.320
bolster the related exports and three

18:32.320 --> 18:36.270
based on one . And to expand its middle

18:36.270 --> 18:39.980
power status in Southeast Asia which

18:39.980 --> 18:43.670
has been relatively uh neglected

18:43.940 --> 18:47.750
um or the field that South Korea has

18:47.750 --> 18:51.560
been trying to put more effort into

18:53.040 --> 18:56.860
fruit and in more outcomes . Mhm .

18:56.870 --> 18:59.790
And these motivations all vision um

18:59.790 --> 19:02.790
sold to play that expanded role and in

19:02.790 --> 19:06.520
the pacific um So the important thing

19:06.520 --> 19:10.140
is that you have to make sure what

19:10.140 --> 19:12.500
you're doing and what you're willing to

19:12.500 --> 19:16.160
do and so much show and tell North

19:16.160 --> 19:19.120
Korea that these all these capabilities ,

19:19.120 --> 19:22.700
it's not just to threatened North

19:22.700 --> 19:26.000
Korea , it's it's in South Korea's own

19:26.010 --> 19:29.890
um strategic interest . And um I think

19:29.890 --> 19:32.112
that you know is one of the things that

19:32.112 --> 19:34.350
you know is interested in doing is that

19:34.840 --> 19:37.750
moving away from that abnormal

19:37.750 --> 19:40.410
concentration on North Korea policy

19:40.410 --> 19:43.820
which Moon Head um in my opinion , Moon

19:43.820 --> 19:46.060
Administration from the very beginning

19:46.060 --> 19:49.920
was interested in improving advancing

19:49.920 --> 19:52.830
inter Korea relations and that set on

19:52.840 --> 19:56.060
achieving these this peace declaration .

19:56.740 --> 20:00.570
Um But in pursuit of those

20:00.570 --> 20:03.120
two goals , I think Moon administration

20:03.120 --> 20:06.580
has sacrificed uh Korea's souls

20:06.590 --> 20:10.280
diplomatic and foreign policy agenda

20:10.290 --> 20:13.160
uh and its potential to play a bigger

20:13.160 --> 20:15.160
role in the international community

20:15.160 --> 20:18.660
outside um the korean peninsula and um

20:18.660 --> 20:21.740
is trying to restore that by starting

20:21.740 --> 20:25.170
with US RK alliance ? Mm hmm .

20:25.180 --> 20:27.770
Okay . Yeah , interesting , interesting .

20:28.140 --> 20:31.370
So any final remarks or any

20:31.380 --> 20:35.270
suggestions you have or regarding what

20:35.270 --> 20:37.159
should be according to you , what

20:37.159 --> 20:39.360
should be the approach of South Korea

20:39.420 --> 20:41.790
with we you know , it's indo pacific

20:41.790 --> 20:45.160
strategy . Um do you think that it can

20:45.160 --> 20:47.600
get involved only if there is another

20:47.600 --> 20:50.590
organization set up like what plus or

20:50.600 --> 20:53.880
do you still envision that South Korea

20:53.880 --> 20:57.510
can still play a role ? Mm

20:57.510 --> 21:01.380
hmm . Um my uh I

21:01.380 --> 21:04.310
guess the answer is yes and yes and yes .

21:04.320 --> 21:08.030
Um in my opinion , um

21:08.040 --> 21:10.600
South Korea can and will play a bigger

21:10.600 --> 21:12.656
role with this government and in the

21:12.656 --> 21:16.190
pacific um community regardless

21:16.200 --> 21:19.260
of its form . It could be quad joining

21:19.260 --> 21:21.550
quad . It could be with the Quad Plus

21:21.550 --> 21:24.080
countries or it could be just outside

21:24.080 --> 21:27.160
Quad as a US strong U . S ally just

21:27.160 --> 21:29.680
supporting what they're doing . But

21:29.680 --> 21:31.736
like I mentioned in the beginning of

21:31.736 --> 21:33.958
the interview , as long as South korean

21:33.958 --> 21:37.770
will is there and um the

21:37.770 --> 21:41.230
acceptance um from the other countries

21:41.230 --> 21:43.590
and interested countries is there ? I

21:43.590 --> 21:46.660
think um this shouldn't be a problem .

21:46.660 --> 21:49.700
And in the long run maybe South Korea

21:49.700 --> 21:53.260
can seriously consider if

21:53.260 --> 21:55.670
joining the Quad actually will help

21:56.040 --> 21:58.280
South Korea promote its own strategic

21:58.280 --> 22:02.030
goals or actually maybe um for

22:02.030 --> 22:04.860
certain issues it would actually help

22:04.870 --> 22:08.220
South Korea to um stay outside quad ,

22:08.220 --> 22:11.040
just like the United Kingdom and still

22:11.040 --> 22:13.740
play a big role . So I don't think the

22:13.740 --> 22:16.290
problem is the membership , it's it's

22:16.290 --> 22:19.600
the political will and commitment . Um

22:19.600 --> 22:23.130
and I guess ironically in my opinion ,

22:23.140 --> 22:25.530
the biggest challenge for in the short

22:25.530 --> 22:27.730
run for you know administration will

22:27.730 --> 22:30.930
come from the domestic political

22:30.930 --> 22:34.360
arena since the muddy struggle .

22:34.740 --> 22:38.340
Um I think really North Korea issue

22:38.350 --> 22:40.830
Korea japan relations which is another

22:40.830 --> 22:44.100
area that units focusing on and US rok

22:44.100 --> 22:47.850
alliance . Um these are all very highly

22:47.850 --> 22:50.990
volatile issues and are often consumed

22:50.990 --> 22:54.140
by domestic politics and its populistic

22:54.150 --> 22:57.520
goals . So I think actually the short

22:57.530 --> 23:01.360
run , the biggest challenge is that how

23:01.360 --> 23:04.500
you deals with different views from

23:04.500 --> 23:06.860
different parties and how he can

23:06.870 --> 23:09.570
embrace them . It's really up to his

23:09.580 --> 23:13.470
capacity and his advisors um you

23:13.470 --> 23:16.360
know , roles in Ameliorating the

23:16.740 --> 23:20.180
political playing field in

23:20.180 --> 23:24.080
domestic uh politics . Mm hmm .

23:24.090 --> 23:27.450
Okay , interesting . Um you know , so

23:27.460 --> 23:31.380
we interacting with you , we have come

23:31.380 --> 23:33.740
to know several points about , you know ,

23:33.740 --> 23:35.930
the new administration which is going

23:35.930 --> 23:38.210
to take , you know take over in May

23:38.220 --> 23:40.510
early May and it is coinciding with the

23:40.510 --> 23:43.220
president biden biden's visit as well .

23:43.230 --> 23:46.910
So we see a strengthening of the US RK

23:46.910 --> 23:49.240
relations as well . As you've also

23:49.240 --> 23:53.190
spoken about that um china

23:53.200 --> 23:56.870
union will not be , you know um is

23:56.870 --> 23:59.050
going to go beyond the strategic

23:59.060 --> 24:01.620
ambiguity and it's going to maintain us

24:01.620 --> 24:03.640
balance with the relationship with

24:03.650 --> 24:07.460
china and also try to balance

24:07.460 --> 24:10.460
its relations with North Korea and we

24:10.840 --> 24:13.480
forthcoming for the humanitarian aid as

24:13.480 --> 24:17.040
invented is required . And also as you

24:17.040 --> 24:19.690
have mentioned about the their emphasis

24:19.700 --> 24:22.610
on um strengthening the defense

24:22.610 --> 24:24.670
industry . Not particularly

24:24.680 --> 24:27.700
particularly in an offensive way but

24:27.710 --> 24:30.910
you know , because to become a rising

24:30.920 --> 24:33.300
middle power , established itself as a

24:33.300 --> 24:35.590
middle power and recognized power in

24:35.590 --> 24:38.460
the uh in the indo pacific region .

24:38.940 --> 24:41.510
So these are really interesting points

24:41.510 --> 24:43.770
that you have , you know , highlighted

24:44.140 --> 24:47.460
and anything else you would like to add

24:47.940 --> 24:49.840
beyond this . Anything you want ,

24:49.850 --> 24:52.017
anything you would want to add as your

24:52.017 --> 24:54.060
conclusions concluding remarks .

24:56.040 --> 24:58.860
Um Well

25:00.340 --> 25:03.400
um in terms of foreign policy and

25:03.400 --> 25:06.920
diplomacy , um I think one of the

25:06.920 --> 25:08.670
challenging part for the new

25:08.670 --> 25:12.120
administration would be um because of

25:12.120 --> 25:15.880
its importance and urgency to recommit

25:15.890 --> 25:18.490
to cohesive strategic front of the U .

25:18.490 --> 25:20.720
S . R . K . Alliance and figuring out

25:20.720 --> 25:23.510
how to strategically maneuver through

25:23.510 --> 25:26.420
these different issues with china while

25:26.430 --> 25:29.360
strengthening the lions . And the

25:29.360 --> 25:31.580
second thing would be um I think it

25:31.580 --> 25:34.270
will be taking some policy emphasis

25:34.540 --> 25:36.950
away from the north Korea or inner

25:36.950 --> 25:40.000
Korea relations without triggering uh

25:40.010 --> 25:42.560
damaging responses from Pyongyang or

25:42.560 --> 25:46.210
sending a wrong message even . Um this

25:46.210 --> 25:47.900
is why um I think deterrent

25:47.900 --> 25:50.140
capabilities needs to be strengthened

25:50.150 --> 25:52.560
to signal north Korea that its

25:52.640 --> 25:54.580
provocations will not lead to

25:54.580 --> 25:56.413
consequences but it will lead to

25:56.413 --> 25:58.960
consequences . Elvin did not promised

25:58.960 --> 26:02.460
him his endgame and I think Soul is

26:02.470 --> 26:06.190
uh right to uh build up and

26:06.190 --> 26:08.357
strengthen its deterrence capabilities

26:08.357 --> 26:10.301
and commit to building um you know

26:10.301 --> 26:12.500
three cases people talk about this a

26:12.500 --> 26:14.980
lot these days to kill chain Korea .

26:14.980 --> 26:17.550
Air missile defense and Korea massive

26:17.550 --> 26:20.360
punishment and retaliation supported by

26:20.370 --> 26:22.481
these emerging technologies mentioned

26:22.481 --> 26:26.190
earlier and all this should

26:26.190 --> 26:29.830
be um formulated built

26:29.840 --> 26:33.250
on clear strategical that Korea has

26:33.250 --> 26:37.100
been missing . Um a clear strategic

26:37.100 --> 26:39.890
vision for South Korea in indo pacific ,

26:39.900 --> 26:43.030
that can be a guideline that helps salt

26:43.030 --> 26:45.520
to maximize its foreign policy and

26:45.520 --> 26:48.310
diplomacy , diplomatic capabilities and

26:48.310 --> 26:52.120
international arena and it should be um

26:52.130 --> 26:54.220
able to transcend the domestic

26:54.220 --> 26:57.750
discussions and uh populistic argument

26:57.760 --> 27:01.760
uh one that could go on for a long time .

27:01.760 --> 27:05.430
So a strategic vision um I think that

27:05.430 --> 27:07.410
will be one of the most important

27:07.420 --> 27:09.670
homework for the unit administration .

27:10.140 --> 27:13.960
Mhm . Okay . Yes . Yes that's a good uh

27:13.970 --> 27:16.200
you know conclusion to our discussion

27:16.200 --> 27:17.978
today that you are seeing clear

27:17.978 --> 27:21.400
strategic vision and rise to the

27:21.400 --> 27:24.170
occasion because the opportunity is now

27:24.540 --> 27:28.480
and so thank you so much energy for

27:28.480 --> 27:30.660
sharing your views , your perspective

27:30.670 --> 27:34.040
on South Korea and its role in the indo

27:34.040 --> 27:36.450
pacific . Really appreciate that you

27:36.450 --> 27:40.040
took out time and you um you came

27:40.040 --> 27:43.920
here for sharing your views and giving

27:43.920 --> 27:47.850
us these um these points this insight

27:47.850 --> 27:50.550
here in your insight on this issue .

27:50.560 --> 27:52.782
Thank you very much . I appreciate it .

27:52.782 --> 27:54.449
Thank you . Thank you for the

27:54.449 --> 27:56.590
opportunity and I really enjoyed the

27:56.600 --> 27:59.460
whole process . Thank you . Thank you