hearing for the fiscal year 2023
Defense budget request and the
committee has honored this morning to
have the Secretary of Defense Secretary
of Defense , Lloyd Austin with us as
well as the Chairman of the Joint
Chiefs of Staff , Mark Milley um and
the controller at the pentagon mike
McCord guys job . It is to keep track
of the money . So important to have all
three of you here . Obviously this is
an incredibly important time for the
national defense of this country and
for peace and stability in the globe .
We all watch on a on a daily basis what
is happening in Ukraine . Um the the
horror and devastation from the violent
attack that Vladimir Putin and Russia
have brought down upon Ukraine and we
see the world that we do not want
unquestionably . Um and this committee
and the Department of Defense have a
huge role in trying to figure out how
we create the better world that we do
want . And as a starting point , our
ability and our allies ability to get
aid and weapons to Ukraine has been
crucial in the early days of this fight .
Um Russia has struggled far greater
than just about anybody expected .
There are a lot of reasons for that .
Certainly the biggest is the will and
the courage of the Ukrainian people .
But it has also been crucial that our
alliance , the NATO alliance and others
have come together to offer that
support to Ukraine . And one of the
biggest questions that we're gonna have
in this committee uh for you three
gentlemen is how can we do more . How
can we make sure we're getting
absolutely everything we can to Ukraine
to help them defend their country and
defend themselves . And we will be very
focused on the effort and stand ready
to do anything we can to help make that
happen . And then the larger question
is , we look at this is we have to make
sure that Russia does not succeed
because the implications it has . Um
certainly for Ukraine , but for the
larger world as well , we do not want
Russia or other aggressive countries in
the world to think that by force they
can simply expand their territory and
attack their neighbors . We need to
build a robust deterrence across the
globe to make sure that this kind of
thing does not happen again . Um We've
been working on that for a long time ,
obviously on our national security
policy , but it comes in an incredibly
sharp focus now as we see the war in
Ukraine deterrence is many things .
Certainly it is incredibly important
that we build those alliances , you
know , where would we be if we were
trying to do this on our own or if we
were deeply divided in the West . Um
there would be in a terrible place . So
making sure that we continue to build
those alliances across europe and
across the world is enormously
important . We also need to understand
That Russia and China are are the
principal threats here , as we now have
the national security strategy . We
have the 2023 budget . We see that
President Biden and his team recognized
that uh , and and prioritize those
threats is what we need to deter going
forward . We face a very stark choice
in the world . The President has
outlined this clearly , um , we can
push for greater freedom , greater
economic and political freedom , um ,
or we can face the , the , the
autocracy that Russia and china are
trying to bring down upon us . And it
is crucial that we build a defense
budget that reflects that . And I
believe that the budget that has been
submitted gets us headed in the right
direction . Now there will be a lot of
really robust increase in the budget
last year as it was enacted . We have a
robust increase in the budget this year .
We will have that debate about what
that top line number should be and that
that is fine . But what I hope we also
really focus on is where do we spend
the money spending that money
efficiently and effectively in a
rapidly changing environment . To me is
the most important thing that this
committee and the pentagon can do . And
it starts with recognizing the changing
nature of warfare . I've I've come to
sum it up as , as information and
survivability , which I guess have
always been central to warfare . It's
just that they're changing so much now
and you can look and learn from how the
Russians are struggling in Ukraine
there , they can't communicate with
each other , they're large tank columns
are victims to relatively cheap and
expensive missiles . We need to figure
out how do we build the force that can
survive in today's world ? We have to
make sure that we can protect our
information and distribute it . We have
to make sure that our systems are not
just single points of failure . Um you
know , large , exquisite systems that
can be shut down either by a cyber
attack or a missile . We need to
fundamentally rethink how we approach
the military and our biggest focus on
this committee has been that innovation
and and sadly , you know , the pentagon
is not the most innovative institution
in the world . Um it is slow to adopt
new technology is certainly slow to
adopt software . A number of reforms
and changes have been made in recent
years to try to address that issue .
But it is crucially important that we
figure out how to develop new
technologies first and even more
crucially we figure out how to use them
um ai missile technology , drones ,
these are all critically important .
How do you employ those ? How do we put
the right people in place to make sure
that we are making the best use of the
technology and innovation that we are
doing and I would recommend all of you
an article in Foreign Affairs magazine
that former Secretary Spencer sent me
that's entitled The Pentagon's Office
Culture is stuck in 1968 . That may be
a slight overstatement . But when you
read the analysis of how you structure
a company today to adopt to the
innovative , the innovative economy ,
the faith that we face , the technology
changes that we face versus how you
would build a company in the more
assembly line industrial age of the
1960s . You can see a stark contrast
really want to see that change that we
have a more innovative pentagon that
can take advantage of of the the
changes that are happening out there
and make sure that we get there first .
Because without question , when you
look at the world , um you have the U .
S . And the west and our involvement
and then you have china Russia , Iran
north Korea and transnational terrorist
groups . Our job is simple . We want to
deter those adversaries , all of them .
We get into a ranking issue
occasionally and certainly china is the
biggest um economy , The biggest , you
know , alternative out there . Russia
clearly is committing violent acts as
we speak , but they all matter . We
need to build an alliance that promotes
economic and political freedom and we
need to do it with a very , very strong
military and a robust involvement in
the world in diplomacy and development
and alliances . We have to build that .
Pentagon is a huge part of that . Uh
mornings , the discussion is the
kickoff point for our committee to
looking at how the FY 23 budget affects
that fight . I look forward to the
testimony on the questions and answers .
And with that , I will yield to the
ranking member . Mr Rogers for his
opening statement . Thank you Mr
Chairman and I want to thank the
witnesses for their attendance and
their service to our country . Um the
threats that we face now are more
formidable than at any point in the 20
years . I've had the privilege of
serving on this committee .
Unprecedented chinese military
modernization has enabled them to leap
progress in key capabilities . The
Chinese Communist Party now controls
the largest army and navy in the world .
It has more troops , more ships and
more hypersonic missiles than the
United States with each passing day .
More and more clear , more and more
clear . Their interests are , it's more
and more clear that they diametrically
opposed our interest . And to make
matters worse , President Z has entered
into a no limits partisan partnership
with Putin providing him with strategic
cover and international legitimacy .
But Putin's catastrophic invasion of
Ukraine has proven to the rest of the
world that he's nothing more than an
unhinged crackpot . The problem is this
crackpot has his finger on the world's
largest nuclear arsenal and illegal
stockpile of chemical and biological
weapons , which he hasn't hesitated to
use against his perceived enemies .
Emulating . Putin's desire to undermine
democracy or the despotic leaders of
North Korea and Iran both continue to
aggressively pursue nuclear weapons and
conduct destabilizing activities in
their region . Finally , President ,
the president's decision to
unilaterally and unconditionally
withdraw US forces from Afghanistan has
offered terrorists the opportunity to
regain their footing and our capability
to keep an eye on them and strike them
before they strike us has diminished .
These are just a few of the growing
threats confronting our nation , how we
respond to them as the biggest test we
will face as americans . Many of us
here , regardless of party , believe we
should respond with increased
investment and the men and women of our
armed forces and the modernization of
our conventional and strategic
deterrence . Unfortunately , the
president doesn't see things the same
way for the second year in a row . The
president has sent us a budget that
fails to keep pace with china and
Russia and yet again it fails to keep
pace with inflation . Despite
predictions from leading economists ,
the record high inflation will endure .
The White House directed the pentagon
to assume a rate of only 2.2% for fy 23 .
Regardless of this inflation , We are
now at 8% inflation to to to get an
average of 2.2% next year would require
months of unprecedented low inflation
inflation . Everyone here knows that's
not gonna happen . That means every
dollar of increase in this budget will
be eaten by inflation very little if
anything , will be left over to
modernize or grow capability . The
president may claim this budget
bolsters our national security , but
that's far from the truth . The budget
cuts . The number of soldiers , sailors ,
airmen , marines , well below
authorized levels . It slashes the
number of ships and aircraft in our
arsenal . In fact , at no point over
the next five years does the size of
the navy grow Instead of moving toward
a 500 ship , Navy needed to counter
China , it shrinks to 280 ships . The
budget cuts , procurement for the army
and Marine Corps , delaying critical
modernization efforts . It slashes
funding for next generation aircraft ,
new nuclear deterrent capability and
modernized ground combat vehicles .
Finally , according to the president's
comptroller , the budget was completed
before Putin's invasion of Ukraine . No
funds have been added to the account .
You know , for the increased cost of
reinforcing NATO allies are to continue
to provide lethal aid to Ukraine in the
next fiscal year . This is extremely
shortsighted . The problem again this
year is not that the president refuses
to spend money is that he refuses to
spend it on defense . Yet again , the
budget proposes massive increases in
funding for the E . P . A . And the
Department of Education and HHS In all ,
non defense discretionary spending
grows by an astonishing 12% . 3 times
more than defense Using GDP as a metric
defense spending will total 3.1% of GDP
nondefense spending will total 18% of
GDP nearly six times more than defense .
I know these numbers are inconvenient
to too many people in the White House .
Some on the far left want to slash
defending defense spending by 10 to his
credit . The president hadn't gone
there . But what he is proposing is far
from what's needed to maintain a
credible deterrent . Under the old
National Defense Strategy , we needed
an annual increase of 3-5% over
inflation to stay ahead of China . The
new national defense strategy departs
little from the last one . I suspect
the new commission were appointed to
review the National Defense strategy
will again recommending at least that
level of funding If this budget was
truly driven by risk 5% above inflation
is the level of growth we would see .
Unfortunately that's not the case .
This budget fails to account for the
record inflation the department is
currently facing and severely
underestimates its impact over the next
year . It robs our warfighters of vital
capabilities . They need to carry out
their missions . But most regrettably
it gives china more time to enhance
their military advantage and undermine
our deterrence . I urge my colleagues
to reject this budget and work on a
bipartisan manner to address the urgent
needs of our national defense and with
that Mr Chairman , I yield back . Q
Secretary Austin . Good morning .
Chairman smith . Ranking member ,
Rogers . Distinguished members of the
committee . Thank you for the chance to
testify today in support of the
president's budget request for fiscal
year 2023 . It's great to be here with
general Milley who has been an
outstanding partner . And I'm also glad
to be joined by our today by our
controller and chief financial officer .
Mike Mchugh Rd . Mr . Chairman . We're
still focused on three key priorities
at the Department of Defense ,
defending our nation , taking care of
our people and succeeding through
teamwork and the budget requests that
we have submitted to you helps us meet
each of those priorities . Our budget
seeks more than $56 billion dollars for
air power platforms and systems And
more than $40 billion dollars to
maintain our dominance at sea Including
buying nine more battle force ships And
almost $13 billion dollars to support
and modernize our combat credible
forces on land . A budget request also
funds the modernization of all three
legs of the nuclear triad to ensure
that we maintain a safe , secure and
effective strategic deterrent . Of
course these capabilities , none of
these capabilities matter much without
our people and their families . So
we're seeking your support for a 4.6%
pay raise for our military and civilian
personnel and special pay and benefits .
We also plan to invest in outstanding
and affordable child care in in the
construction of on base child
development centers and in ensuring
that all our families can put good and
healthy food on the table . We're also
deeply focused on a terrible problem of
suicide in the U . S . Military and
I'll keep on saying it , mental health
is health period . So we're increasing
access to mental health care ,
expanding telehealth care telehealth
capabilities and fighting the tired old
stigmas that's against seeking help
with your support . I vote I've just
ordered the establishment of an
independent review committee to help us
grapple with suicide to better
understand it , prevent it and treat
the unseen wounds that lead to it . At
the same time , we're working hard to
implement the recommendations of the
Independent Review Commission on Sexual
Assault because we know that we have a
long way to go to rid ourselves of this
scourge . Our budget seeks nearly $480
million dollars for that enterprise and
sexual assault as we know , it's not
just a crime , it's an assault or an
affront to our values and to everything
that we're supposed to represent to
each other and to this country . This
is a leadership issue . And you have my
personal commitment to keep leading .
Now , while I'm on the topic of
leadership , let me briefly address our
military's role in the world because as
I've said , we succeed through teamwork
and as I've witnessed myself in the
last several weeks , countries around
the world continue to look for the
United States to provide that sort of
leadership with help from Congress ,
we've been able to rush security
assistance to Ukraine to help the
Ukrainian Ukrainian people defend their
lives in their country and their
freedom and last october I visited Kiev
to meet both my Ukrainian counterpart
and President Zelensky and we discussed
our deepening defense partnership in
our unwavering support for Ukraine's
sovereignty in the face of Russian
aggression . And even before Russia's
unprovoked and illegal invasion , we
provided Ukraine with a billion dollars
worth of weapons and gear through
presidential drawdown authority . And
now we're delivering on another billion
dollars pledged by President Biden .
And our budget includes $650 million
Europe , Including
$300 million Security Assistance
Initiative . We're also helping to
coordinate the delivery of material
provided by other nations which
continues to flow in every single day .
And let me thank all of you for your
strong leadership toward our shared
goal of helping Ukraine defend itself .
And since the invasion , I've spoken
and met frequently with Minister
Reznikoff including just yesterday and
I have assured him that we will
continue this effort . We'll get him
and his troops the tools and the
weapons that they need most and are
using most effectively against Russian
forces . We've also reinforced our NATO
allies . We spend additional combat
power to the alliance's eastern flank
Raising our posture in Europe to more
than 100,000 troops . And these
reinforcements includes include dozens
of aircraft , an aircraft carrier
strike group And two Brigade Combat
Teams . And as President biden made
clear we will defend every inch of NATO
territory if required . And we're
making good on that promise on that
promise . Mr Chairman , you've heard me
say many times . We need resources
match the strategy and strategy matched
the policy and policy matched to the
will of the american people . This
budget gives us the resources that we
need to deliver on that promise as well .
It reflects our recently submitted
national Defense strategy which
highlights the pacing challenge of
china . That's why we've we're
investing some $6 billion dollars in
this budget in the pacific deterrence
initiative . And it's why we're
realigning our posture in the indo
pacific toward a more distributed
footprint . We're going to enhance our
forward posture infrastructure presence
and readiness in the indo pacific
including the missile defense of Guam
and that's why we're making broad
investments in such key areas as
undersea dominance , fighter aircraft
modernization and advanced weaponry
including hypersonic strike . And many
of these investments will pay dividends
encountering the acute threat of Russia
as well which are strategy underscores
at the same time we must be prepared
for threats that don't observe borders
from pandemics to climate change . And
we must tackle the persistent threats
posed by north Korea Iran and global
terrorist groups . Now the national
defense strategy advances our goals in
three main ways forging integrated
deterrence campaigning and building
enduring advantages . An integrated
deterrence means combining our
strengths across all the warfighting
domains to maximum effect to ward off
potential conflict campaigning means
our day to day efforts to gain and
sustain military advantage , counter
acute forms of coercion by our
competitors and complicate their
preparations for aggression and to
build enduring advantages . We need to
accelerate force development ,
acquiring the technology that our
warfighters need . So our budget seeks
more than $130 billion dollars for
research , development , testing and
evaluation . And that's the largest R .
And D . Request that this depart
department has ever made . It's nearly
a 10% increase over last year , which
was the department's previous high
previous high water mark . And this
includes $2 billion dollars for
artificial intelligence . $250 million
for five G . Nearly $28 billion for
space capabilities and another $11
billion to protect our networks and
develop a cyber mission force . This
budget maintains our edge but it does
not take that edge for granted . And
quite frankly , Mr . Chairman in the
21st century , you either innovate or
you get left behind and through the
president's budget . And with the help
of this committee we will continue to
innovate and with your help we will
continue to defend this nation . Take
care of our people and support our
allies and partners and with your help
I know that we will continue to lead .
Thank you and I look forward to your
questions . Thank you . Chairman Milley .
Karen smith , ranking member , Rogers .
Distinguished members of the committee .
I'm privileged to represent the
soldiers , sailors , airmen , marines
and guardians of the United States
Joint Force . Our troops are the best
led , best equipped , best trained ,
most lethal and most capable military
force in the world alongside our allies
and partners at any given time .
Approximately 400,000 american troops
are currently standing watch 155
countries and conducting operations
every day . They keep americans safe .
Currently we are supporting our
european allies and guarding NATO's
eastern flank in the face of the
unnecessary war of aggression by Russia
against the people of Ukraine and the
assault on the democratic institutions
and the rules based international order
That have prevented Great Power War for
the last 78 years since the end of
World War two . We are now facing two
global powers china and Russia ,
each with significant military
capabilities , both who intend to
fundamentally change the rules based
current global order . We are entering
a world that is becoming more unstable
and the potential for significant
international conflict between great
powers is increasing . Not decreasing
the United States military comprises
one of the four key components of
national power , diplomatic , economic ,
informational and military to protect
the homeland and sustain a stable and
open international system . In
coordination with the other elements of
power . We constantly develop a wide
range of military options for the
president as commander in chief and for
this Congress to consider as the U . S .
Military . We are prepared to deter and
if necessary fight and win anyone who
seeks to attack the United States or
our allies or a significant core vital
national security interests . The joint
force appreciates the work that our
elected representatives do to ensure
that we have the resources needed ,
train equipped and manage the force in
order to be ready . We thank the
Congress for increasing last year's
last fiscal year's level of military
funding and we look forward to your
support for this year's budget . The
Joint force will deliver modernization
and readiness for armed forces And
secure the people of the United States
at the fiscal year 23 budget request of
773 billion . This budget will
enable the appropriate decisions for
modernization And transformation of the
joint force in order to set and meet
the conditions of the operating
environment that we will face in 2030
and beyond the so called changing
character of war that we've discussed
many times in the past . We will work
diligently to ensure the resources of
american people entrust to us are spent
prudently and in the best interests of
the nation in alignment with the
forthcoming national defense strategy
and the national military strategy .
This budget delivers already agile and
capable joint force that will defend
the nation while taking care of our
people and working with our partners
and allies . We are witness to the
greatest threat to peace and security
of europe and perhaps the world In my
42 years of service in uniform , the
Russian invasion of Ukraine is
threatening to undermine not only
european peace and stability but global
peace and stability that my parents and
a generation of americans fought so
hard to defend the islands of the
pacific and the beaches of Normandy
bore witness to the incredible tragedy
that befalls humanity when nations seek
power through military aggression
across sovereign borders . Despite the
horrific assault on the institutions of
freedom , it is heartening to see the
world rally and say never again to the
specter of war in europe . Your
military stands ready to do whatever is
directed in order to maintain peace and
stability on the european continent . A
piece that ensures global stability and
international order where all nations
can prosper in peace . We are also
prepared and need to sustain our
capabilities anywhere else in the globe
as well . With our priority effort
being in the Asia pacific region
measured against our pacing challenge
of arising people's republic of china
and the defense of our nation . We must
also maintain competitive overmatch in
all the domains of war , cyber , space ,
land , sea and air . To conclude the
United States is at a very critical and
historic geo strategic inflection point .
We need to pursue a clear ride strategy
of maintaining the peace to the
unambiguous capability of strength
relative to china or Russia . This
requires we simultaneously maintain
readiness and modernize the force for
the future . If we do not do that ,
then we will be risking the security of
future generations . And I believe this
budget is a major step in the right
direction . I look forward to your
questions . Thank you very much for the
question and answer is all of you know ,
but want to reiterate , we have five
minutes . Um and when we're done we're
done . So even if the witnesses are in
the middle of answering the question ,
I will cut them off to move on to other
members of the secretary and the
chairman have generously said they will
be here to get through all members
questions so we will get through them .
Um , one other thing , it's perfectly
okay to if you it's your five minutes ,
you want to make a speech for five
minutes . That's cool . You want to ask
questions ? I am going to try to make
sure no one badgers the witnesses . If
you ask a question , you have to at
least give them the tiniest little bit
of a chance to answer uh , for cutting
off a filibuster is fine , but make
sure they have a chance to speak . I
don't want this to turn in to a
badgering session um , with that
focusing on Ukraine . Um it's important
to remember we passed the supplemental
budget just a couple of weeks ago . So
in addition to the number um , that we
have , we have roughly $14 billion
$14
billion dollars is a significant
investment . My question is What's most
important in that $14 billion ? What
what what are you using it for ? How is
that helping the fight in Ukraine ? The
sector ? Thank you , chairman . And and
thanks for the support that uh that you
continue to provide to uh to our
efforts to provide security force
assistance to Ukraine . I speak with my
counterpart , Minister Resnick aww
frequently . And as I said earlier , I
just spoke with them yesterday because
we do want to make sure that uh that
we're meeting their needs and we're
providing them to things that are most
useful uh to their to their fight . Ah
and and the things that we have
provided them , as you've seen have
been very very instrumental in their
efforts to blunt um the the advance of
an overwhelming Russia Russian force .
Uh , so what has been very helpful has
been the anti armor and anti aircraft
capability that we've provided them
also , the U . A . V . Capability
that that's been pushed in as well as ,
you know , we have over a year over the
years provided them the ability to
communicate through tactical radios ,
secure tactical radios that that , you
know , we pushed in over a number of
years . And they have been able to uh
to maintain command and control over
their forces throughout that's enabled
them to do things that have provided
them an advantage in certain cases . So
we will continue to focus on those
types of things that have been uh been
most useful to them as well as emerging
needs that the Minister of Defense
identifies . Thank you and for both of
you . What lessons have we learned as
we've watched the last month plus now
of the fight in Ukraine , because
you've got Russia as a global power
going up against a much much smaller ,
less armed , less resourced foe and
struggling mightily in doing that . As
we look at what we need to build and
how we need to think about deterrence .
You know , we we all we want to be
ready for the fight if it comes . But
the main goal of what we're trying to
do here is to build a force that will
deter adversaries . Um , Iran china
Russia , you know , being at the top of
that list , North Korea , what have we
learned about what we would need . As
you see , I mean , obviously one of the
lessons is the tank isn't what it used
to be . How is that informing for both
of you ? What you think is most
important to fund to make sure that we
have that deterrence for for , for the
battlefield that we face today with the
technology that is available .
Well , we've learned that armed with
the with the right capabilities , a
determined force can do tremendous work
in terms of defending itself and the
Ukrainians demonstrate that each and
every day we we've seen them again
blunt the the advance of a far superior
force with respect to the Russians in
terms of numbers and capability by
using the right types of techniques and
the right uh , weapons systems , The
javelin , the Stingers have proven to
be very , very effective in this fight .
Um , we've also learned that
that just because you have the
capability , it doesn't mean that
you're gonna overwhelm another force
easily . The Russians had to have
significant mechanized capability . But
as you look at the techniques and
tactics procedures that they used ,
they were not very effective . And so
you question the training , uh , the
leadership at the , at the , at the
noncommissioned level , noncommissioned
officer level and their ability to
provide basic logistics to a force that
size . Those are the things that have
given them significant problems over
the over the last several weeks , in
addition to their inability to link ,
uh , you know , air power to , to the
ground effort . But there are a number
of lessons that have been learned , I
think , um , because the Russians have
not been effective and using their
their armor , uh , it does not mean
that armor is ineffective on the
battlefield going forward . It means
that they were ineffective because of
the things that they failed to do uh ,
in this fight . Thank you , chairman .
Really just a couple of comments
briefly , one is the importance of
intelligence . We've had extraordinary
intelligence all throughout and the
intelligence sharing that we've enabled
Ukraine to see . So I wouldn't
suggest that it's at the level of the
ultra secret sort of thing from World
War Two . But the ability of us to
transmit information that is useful to
Ukraine has been enormously helpful I
believe to them . And and I talked to
my Ukrainian counterpart several times
a week . So he has reiterated that
multiple times secondly is the
importance of leadership . That's at
the national level . I think that's
been pretty clear with Zelensky , but
also at the tactical level . Ukraine
has been trained by the United States
since 2014 . Uh And they have given me
feedback personally saying that that
train has been quite effective in terms
of the concept of Mission command
distributed uh junior level leadership .
The development of an N . C . O . Corps ,
junior officers that have initiative uh
That is not present in the Russian army
that is present right now in the
Ukrainian Army . And you see the
effects of Mission command
decentralized operation uh and and that
is working out extraordinarily well on
the battlefield . The third piece I
would say is focusing on that , which
gives you the best effect on a
battlefield which in this case has been
antitank weapons and air defense
weapons . To deny the Russians the
ability to maintain air supremacy or
even achieve air superiority . And the
last thing that you mentioned character
for one of the things we know is that
by mid century roughly speaking , 90%
of the eight or nine billion people
that are going to inhabit the earth ,
they're gonna be living in highly dense
urban areas . Uh , so that the
character of war is gonna shift
character . We're being , how you fight
with what weapons you fight , the
organization's tactics , etcetera .
That is going to shift . We've seen
precursors of that in the battles of
Mosul and rocket , we're seeing again
Kiev , Kharkiv and all these urban
battles . So what you're seeing is
forces that are optimized to fight in
rural , wooded , rolling hill type
terrain are going to have very , very
difficult times in urban terrain . And
that proved true . And that's one of
the reasons why the Russians are
withdrawing from Kiev because they
couldn't mask the combat power to seize
Kiev . So , urban battle is going to
dominate land combat in the future and
that will then also drive . Our use of
helicopters are use of radios , are use
of tanks , armored vehicles , light
infantry , dismounted , light infantry
and so on , so forth . So there's a lot
of lessons to be learned and I've got a
whole laundry list we've been working
with the Ukrainians on , but that's
just the tip of the iceberg . Thank you
very much . Mr Rogers . Hey , Mr
Chairman , General Milley , last week
we had general Walters EUCOM commander
testified before us and and he stated
that it was his best military judgment
that we should reallocate some of our
european troops um , for permanent
basing and Poland Romania and in the
Baltics and your best military judgment
uh is that a good deterrent for us to
pursue ? I think
actual presence is always a good
deterrent relative to a given threat .
As a general rule of thumb . With
respect to what general walter said , I
have a slight modification to my view .
Anyway . My advice would be uh to
create permanent bases but don't
permanently station . So you get the
effect of permanence by rotational
forces cycling through permanent bases
and and what you don't have to do is
incur the cost of family moves , PX
schools , housing and that sort of
thing . So you cycle through
expeditionary forces through forward
deployed permanent bases . And I
believe that a lot of our european
allies , especially those such as in
the Baltics or Poland or Romania or
elsewhere , they are very , very
willing to establish permanent bases ,
They'll build them , they'll pay for
them etcetera . And for us to cycle
through on a rotational basis . So you
get the effect of permanent presence of
forces but the actual individual
soldier , sailor , airman Marine are
not permanently stationed there for two
or three years . Great , thank you .
Secretary Austin . We had celeste
Wallander in here and ask her about
this basing issue . And if the decision
is close to being made , she said
they're working on it . Can you tell me
something with more clarity about when
we can expect a decision on this basic
issue as you would expect ranking
member Rogers Member Rogers NATO is
going through a process right now to
really kind of assess how the we expect
that the , the security architecture in
the region is going to change for the
foreseeable future or has changed for
the foreseeable future . Ah , with that
in mind then , you know , we'll look to
work with with NATO to if NATO deems
that it's appropriate to uh , to change
its footprint , then certainly we'll be
a part of that . Our goal is to make
sure that we continue to reassure our
allies and partners , especially those
that are on the eastern flank and
especially our allies
that are in the Baltic area , the
Baltic region . So this is a work in
progress as secretary Wallander said .
Um , and I suspect that . Well , I
expect that we'll discuss this as we go
into the june summit .
Well , I can't think of a better signal
that we can send to our allies and to
Putin that we are committed to NATO
than this basing issue . Um , I am
concerned that with the budget that it
only had one patriot battery in it .
And in my position , in my view , we
need at least three . I know we have a
manning issue with that , but General
Milley in your opinion , could we use ,
do we need more than one patriot
battery In addition to what we
currently have an inventory . Um ,
thanks congressman . The patriot is one
of those systems that's in huge demand
worldwide . We've got 15 battalions . I
think it is in the army and one of
those is really an experimental type or
training units . So Call it 14 for
deployment . We've got several spread
out in the Middle East , Asia and in
europe . And they are in a very , very
high op tempo , high , one of the
highest in the force . So additional
patriot is always a good thing . Now
having said that patriot is
extraordinarily expensive , takes a
long time to train on it . So one
method could be to produce Patriot sell
them to allies and partners . That
would be a technique that could work .
We've done that in the Middle East .
Another one is to produce patriots , uh ,
and loan them to allied partners and
train the soldiers from the other
countries because our soldiers in that
particular M . O . S . We would have to
expand the numbers significantly of
those troops that man Patriot . But
there's a couple of different ways to
go about it . But I think patriot is
one of the systems that is definitely
worth investing in . Well , that's what
I would like to see us do . I'd like
for us to instead of buying one
additional like versus the two by three
and then use at least two of those in
along the the european eastern european
flank on a loan basis and and let them
man them . But for our
needs alone , we need at least one more
outside of eastern europe . And uh , so
I hope the budget that we come up with
does reflect that last question I'd
have and I know it's hard to answer ,
but this would be for Secretary Austin .
Uh , we've just given in in this
current year , fiscal year a 6%
increase . I know you just got the
omnibus bill in the last couple of
weeks to fund it . Uh , but do you have
any idea how you're going to keep up
with inflation ? Given that we just
plus you up by 6% ? But we're living in
an 8% inflation world . I would say
that this is uh , this is a very robust
budget that we've we've asked for . Uh
and uh , and I think uh , ranking
member Rogers that we can we can
address our needs with what's in this
budget . And clearly , you know , when
we snapped the chalk line , when we
built the budget , inflation was at a
different point . But but I think this
budget gives us the capability uh , to
go after the types of things that we
believe that we need to support our
strategy and uh , and give us uh , the
warfighting capabilities that we need
on the patriot battery issue . I I
absolutely agree with you . Uh , you
know , we we do need more if you take a
look at what we're doing across the
fight up , we are going to invest in in
additional patriot batteries going
forward . We expect to have three
batteries by the end of 26 . Thank you .
Mr Chairman . Mr Landman is recognized
for five minutes . Thank you . Mr
Chairman , I want to thank our
witnesses for your testimony today and
thank you for your service to our to
our country . Um , I applaud everything
that we're doing to put weapons in the
hands of the Ukrainian people . Thank
you for making that happen under
President Biden's leadership . Um ,
obviously they've shown incredible
resilience and effectiveness of the
weapons that we have given them to push
back against the Russians and the
javelins and the stingers in particular .
And but because we all want to do more
and Mr Secretary , you and I had a
conversation the pentagon not long ago
about uh , more lethal weapons systems
and you did respond saying that uh , it
doesn't do us any good to give them
weapons that the Ukrainians aren't
trained to use , which I agree with
that . But now that we have the luxury
of time , are we identifying those more
lethal weapons systems that would help
them to be even more effective at
fighting against the Russians with the
minimal amount of training that we
could give some of the Ukrainians and
get those more sophisticated weapons
systems into their hands . Yes ,
we we are doing that . And um ,
I think if you look at the latest the
inventory of the latest round of
assistance that we provided them .
There . There are U . A . V . S . Like
the switchblade . U A . V . That we
discussed earlier that is uh that is ,
you know , a higher level of technology
but provides some additional capability
to go after armored formations and that
sort of thing . And we continue to work
with our allies two to see what they
may have in their inventory to be able
to kind of up the game there in terms
of additional capability . So again we
continue to interact with them on a
daily basis uh and uh endeavor to meet
their needs as a situation of balls .
Thank you . Let me try to cyber for a
minute . Secretary , Last in last
year's testimony , I asked you a
question that I like to revisit . The
Department of Defense recognizes five
warfighter domains , air , land , sea ,
space and cyberspace . In the case of
four of these , the senior civilian
responsible for this uh domain is uh is
a service Secretary . However , uh in
the cyber domain , uh the senior most
civilian official is four rungs below
in that hierarchy . Obviously this
seems like an imbalance . Can you
explain to us why this does or does not
make sense ? Well , thank you , sir .
Well , cyber is a warfighting domain .
There is not a cyber force like there
is with special operations forces with
with the army forces . Space Forces .
So there is not a secretary . Uh
Service Secretary uh you know ,
designated the head of the cyber
command obviously reports to uh to
me and uh and he also is uh is
supervised by the by my undersecretary
for policy . And , and so we have a
number of checks and balances that
provides civilian oversight . But
because he's not , there is not a
separate service , there's not a
service secretary designate . Well ,
I'm I'm I I remain concerned about this ,
this this structure and I think that's
something we're gonna have to continue
to to to look at . Especially since
cyber the the U . S . Cyber Command and
cyber mission force , which can be , it
is highly effective . I still think
that we need to elevate the civilian
oversight on this and involvement . Um ,
let me turn to something else . The so
called Valley of Death often makes it
impossible for technology to transition
from non traditional organizations to
programs of record to support the
warfighter . What is the department
doing to solve this problem ? And how
does this budget request reflect that
effort ? Well , we've
we've established an initiative ,
uh it's a it's a reserve , it's called
raider . That uh that encourages joint
uh experiment , uh joint
experimentation and encourages
entrepreneurs to come in and and bring
their their capabilities forward . And
and hopefully using initiatives like
that . We can help bridge this Valley
of Death . That that you mentioned here .
This is very important to us . We want
to make sure that uh that we're getting
the best that's available out there in
terms of technology and capability .
And so we'll continue to focus on that
particular issue . But I I think it's
really important to make sure that the
the the small entrepreneurs have a
chance to get their products uh you
know , in the inventory , I couldn't
agree more . We have incredible
entrepreneurs out there that can help
meet the warfighter even more effective .
We want to make sure they have that
opportunity to do so how you back ? Mr
Chairman , thank you . Mr Turner is
recognized for five minutes . Thank you .
Mr Chairman , gentlemen , thank you for
your service and your leadership . Um
we we were all very concerned as the
war broke out in Ukraine as
to the concern about weapons
getting into Ukraine , we had advocated
for the administration to give lethal
assistance to Ukraine before the
conflict occurred after the conflict
occurred . Um we were very concerned
about how quickly things would would
get in . Both of you had given us
assurances that you were doing so in
doing so quickly . I think we've seen
the evidence of that on the battlefield .
So I want to thank you for your , your
efforts . I think the whole world is
seeing um the the effectiveness of us
lethal aid that is being provided to
Ukraine . And that brings me to my area
of question . Um you know , the ranking
member had raised the issue of the
budget and the top line and that's
certainly important to other components
under your responsibility are also cost
cost structures . How do we manage the
overall cost ? If we give you more
money , but we don't manage it
effectively , we don't really buy more .
Another issue is the rate of production ,
how quickly things get where they're
going . Now , I think one of the
lessons from Ukraine to our allies is
going to be the need for them to
stockpile weapons . We have a number of
weapons that have been used by the US
and our allies that are going to have
to be backfilled . And then our whole
inventory concept is going to have to
change as we look to the fact that we
now have an aggressive Russia , Mr
Secretary , How do you view this issue
of what we need to be doing
specifically in the areas of missiles
and ammunition so that we can get the
defense industrial base to ramp up
production and also lower overall our
costs . Well , thanks sir , this is
obviously a very important issue for us
for us and and my staff is working hard
to ensure that uh , you know , we have
uh , we even , we have engaged industry
and we have highlighted what our
requirements are and we're working with
them to , to speed up the process uh ,
to to replenish those stocks that that
you mentioned . Uh and uh , I'm
optimistic that we'll be able to
truncate the , you know , the forecast
of timelines that we got to early on ,
But this is very , very important to us .
We not only have to replenish our stock
images , we have to also make sure that
those allies who who volunteer to
provide capability to the effort . And
it was if it's US capability , we were
able to replenish those stocks as well .
So we're working very hard . Industry
has been responsive . Uh , and uh , and
if we need additional help or
authorities from Congress , we won't
hesitate to ask , actually , because I
appreciate you mentioning , because the
the timelines that we're hearing from
you are certainly very concerning . Um ,
and I hope that that you're able to
move this to some extent . I think the
defense industrial base looks at some
of these weapons production systems as
annuities rather than actual
contributions to national security
because when we need to turn that dial ,
they need to be able to respond . That
takes me to the next topic you recently
called in the defense industrial
community that were involved in the
hyper sonics um development to have a
discussion as to how we can speed that
up . We're behind our adversaries .
Could you tell us how that's how that's
turning out ? Yeah . When we say we're
behind our adversaries , I think . Mhm .
I think we have to be careful now ,
Hypersonic is a capability , sir , but
it's not the only capability I
seriously just we have a short period
of time . I really want to hear how
your meeting and they need to speed it
up . I mean , you can tell me that
there are other systems , but we're
talking hypersonic and there are other
systems and we look for a balance of
capabilities that match our our
warfighting um concepts here and and so
yeah I have engaged industry and and
asked them to uh to make sure that
they're leaning into the this issue of
hypersonic development . Most
importantly I've asked them to make
sure that they're working with us on
how we're gonna defend ourselves with
respect to hypersonic six . Uh and uh
and you know my my staff my R . And D .
Staff is is working with them to ensure
that that they have good visibility if
we did what we appreciate that . Mr
Secretary General I have a question for
you uh the sea launched cruise missile
slick um was zeroed out . Um You have
previously stated the importance of the
low yield nuclear weapon and that and
that you supported it . I'm assuming
you have not changed your position . I
have not . That's correct . Thank you .
You're back . Thank you Mr Larson thank
you . I just said thanks for coming
today . Just maybe a turning to some
other issues in the defense budget .
Perhaps for the secretary on the
generally on the research and
development and science and technology
across the enterprise . How would you
characterize that ? The budget proposal ?
It's the largest Amount that
we've ever asked for uh in our budget
it's $130 billion . So that's a
substantial amount And is it um
uh how how would you characterize how
it's allocated not by service but by um
the timing of the investment to get a
result if you will to meet this speed
of relevance and and and catching up
with with peer competitors in certain
areas ? Well I think of
course as you know if you recall in the
22 budget we invested heavily in R . D .
T . And E . As well . And so there are
a number of capabilities that that
we're going after that I think some of
them will take time to uh to come come
to reality but investing in things like
Ai and and those kinds of things and
space based capabilities again long
term in some cases long term
investments but investments that we
need to make now . Yeah I know you
probably came here to talk about
today's headlines and such . So I
appreciate your answering those
questions . Um there's a one particular
program of interest in mind that that
NATO and the NATO alliance developed
the shorthand is Diana but it's the uh
defense innovation accelerator for the
north atlantic . And I don't think that
we've committed yet to participating in
the alliance's efforts for investment
into these developing and sharing
emerging what they call E . D . T .
Emerging disruptive technologies . Can
you give an update on that ? I would
just point to some of the things that
we are doing and like do you recall
Aucas that we announced here this last
year that only not only includes the
development of a submarine capability ,
it also includes working uh with uh
with our partners in other areas like
hyper sonics , like , you know , long
range strike and those kinds of things
and ai uh and and that is coming along
really , really well . So I agree with
you , those types of investments are
really important . General Milley , the
secretary mentioned artificial
intelligence machine learning and so on .
To what extent are we starting to
incorporate uh just you know , a
knowledge base and professional
military education on how to use
ai what to expect from artificial
intelligence , not to create a bunch of
coders , but to ensure that the folks
going through pm me sort of understand
these concepts and how they can be used
as well as the ethics around them . Um ,
artificial intelligence in my view is ,
would I for lack of better term , I'd
say it's the mother of all technologies
here when it comes to military
operations . Because what that will
enable you to do uh is to go through
the UDA loop , the observe orient
direct and act loop . The decision
making process at rates of speed far
greater than your opponent . So that
side that masters artificial
intelligence and applies it to military
operations is going to have a perhaps
not decisive , but it's going to be a
very , very significant advantage over
your opponent . We are teaching those
techniques and and given essentially
essentially introductory level
information about artificial
intelligence in our professional
military education at the war college
is not so much at the lower schools ,
but the war colleges for sure . And
there's a significant amount of
investment and I thought my head um I
don't have it in front of me , but I
think it's uh $15 or $20 billion ,
something that in in artificial
intelligence in this budget . So that's
a that's a real critical area of
investment now , years ago , Department
of Defense was the innovative leader in
technology many , many decades ago now ,
it's the commercial industry , so we've
got to leverage commercial efforts in
artificial intelligence uh for military
application and that will be an
enormously advantage , enormous
advantage in future combat . Great , do
you anticipate um um , in injecting
this type of education into the service
academies in the near future . Actually ,
the service academies right now are on
the cutting edge of that the younger
they're digital natives . Uh they do an
awful lot of technical or technological
courses at the service academies . So
they are actually at the cutting edge
of the artificial intelligence programs
that Department Defense is doing
appreciate that . Thank you very much .
Thank you . Mr Lambert is recognized
for five minutes and you're either
muted or we can't hear . Well we can't
hear you , it could be insurmountable
or it could be because you're muted .
Can you hear me now ? Mr We got you .
Doug go ahead . Okay , thank you so
much . I have a concern I want to
express . And then I have several
questions . Many of President biden's
national security failures feature an
unwillingness to listen to military and
subject matter experts . The atrocious
withdrawal from Afghanistan and its
tragic consequences was the first alarm
bell at that time . Military advisers
testified to Congress that in their
opinion , the United States should have
kept a troop presence in Afghanistan
past the withdrawal date . But this was
not listened to The second alarm . Bell
went off on February 24 when Russia
invaded Ukraine here . The failure was
the inability to deter Vladimir Putin
and a misunderstanding of what it meant
to deter throughout President biden's
response . The only constants have been
reaction and assistance provided later
than needed . And I'm concerned about
what might be a third alarm bill . Uh
the flaws in the nuclear posture .
Review a possible decision to reenter
the Iran nuclear deal or others . So ,
with those concerns in mind . Chairman
Milley , I have some questions for you
of last week . And Representative
Turner's started on this line of
questions , but we heard from general
Walters that His recommendation was to
proceed with the nuclear sea launched
cruise missile or slick them in and its
associated warhead . General Heighten
was a big proponent of ensuring full
funding for the slick . Um in just
yesterday , the committee received a
letter from Admiral Richard where he
stated that , quote , the current
situation in Ukraine and china's
nuclear trajectory convinces me a
deterrence and assurance gap exists .
Unquote . He goes on to state that to
address this gap . He needs a low yield
weapon with a non ballistic trajectory .
In other words , a sea launched cruise
missile . However , it seems that the
biden administration has chosen to
cancel slick them in in its nuclear
posture . Review . What was your best
military advice ? General General
Milley on the slick amend during the
NPR process ? And did it mirror that of
Admiral Richard ? General Walters and
general heighten thanks .
And as I have stated many , many times
before , my best military advice to
this president or any president um , is
a matter between me and that president .
I will say that to you though as
members of Congress who have oversight
responsibilities , my position on slick
Herman has not changed . As I mentioned ,
uh , to Representative Turner . Uh , my
general view is that this president or
any president deserves to have multiple
options to deal with national security
situations . Uh , and my advice
is listened to . Um , and I have an
opportunity to express my voice on a
continuous basis . Many , many times .
General Milley Milley was any of this
put in writing that we would be able to
get a copy of . Um , my best
military advice is almost always put in
writing whether or not , uh , the
committee requests that there are rules ,
obviously and how we do that . So it's
all classified . But um , I'll defer to
the chairman , Chairman smith on that .
We we give up stuff to the committee
all the time or individual members upon
request but there's procedures to do
that and it isn't writing . Okay .
Thank you . Now for both of you . I see
that there is full funding in the
budget for the ground based strategic
deterrent W 87 1 warhead and the two
sites solution for producing plutonium
pits . That is excellent . And I
applaud that Now . I am curious as to
why the Department of Defense canceled
a minimum three flight test last week .
These are regularly scheduled tests
that are scheduled months in advance .
Secretary Austin . How could this have
been perceived as escalatory when it's
a routine tests that scheduled months
in advance . And did the White House
exercise ? It's and provide input over
this cancelation to answer your
question on a second Part of your
question 1st . No . We did not get a
directive to to cancel that from the
White House . Uh it's my assessment
based upon the current state of the
state of play with respect to
escalation management that it was the
best thing to do in in in terms
of postponing and then eventually
canceling that test . We will certainly
be able to continue to make progress in
the program . And so that that is not
an issue . And and and by the way ,
thanks for your concern on our on our
investment in our nuclear try it . I
would just point that there's We've
invested $34.4 billion dollars in the
modernization of the triad in his
budget . And I think that's very
sincerely apologize to the gentleman's
time has expired .