apologize for the confusion .
We were understanding that there would
be a different boat schedule and we're
gonna make the best of this because
obviously you've made your time
available and we do our best to get
some votes in or excuse me , testimony
will go to votes and we'll come back
and uh , Make sure that we do what is
right for the American people and
certainly for military . So with that ,
like to welcome everyone to tactical
air and land forces subcommittee
hearing on military services , fiscal
year 22 budget requests for rotary wing
aviation programs . We've lifted most
of the covid restrictions here in the
house , but this is still a hybrid
hearing and that is so true that we
have a few members that are potential
to pay them remotely , although they
are not on right now , we expect them .
But if nobody's here to have to read it ,
okay , We'll cover itself . Okay ? We
have someone on there . So I have to
read the mandatory language like to
welcome the members who are joining us
today , joined here in remotely .
Members who are participating remotely
must be visible on screen for the
purposes . Identity , identity
verification , establishing and
maintaining Corum participating in the
proceedings and voting remote attended
members must continue to use software ,
platform , video function the entire
time while in attendance unless they
experience connectivity issues or other
technical problems that render them
unable to participate on camera . If a
member experience technical
difficulties , they should contact
committee staff for assistance . Video
members participating will be broadcast
in the room and be a television and
internet feeds . Members participating
remotely must seek recognition verbally
and they are asked to mute their
microphones when they are not speaking
remote members may leave and rejoin the
proceedings . However , if remote
members that part the hearing for a
short while , for reasons other than
joining a different proceeding , they
should leave the video function on . If
members will be absent for a
significant period or depart to join
different proceedings , they should
exit the software program entirely and
then rejoin it when they return ,
members may use the software platforms ,
chat feature to communicate with staff
regarding only technical or logistical
support issues . I've designated a
committee staff member to if necessary ,
mute , unrecognized members microphones
to cancel any inadvertent background
noise that may disrupt the proceedings
and with that , I will now get my
opening statement . Welcome back . Yeah ,
we obviously have a larger
distinguished panel of witnesses here
today and I thank them for being on
time even though not all of us were and
making the time to have this discussion
on what is incredibly important . The
services , rotary wing aviation
programs and the process . Certainly
the challenges we need to be aware
before we mark up The 22 National
Defense Authorization Act rotary wing
aircraft serves diverse and unique
purposes across the military branches .
And each service is currently in
different stages of modernization of a
helicopter fleets . Successful
modernization is a statement of rotary
wing aircraft will lay a solid
foundation for the futures of the joint
force . The Army is embarking on
ambitious lead future vertical lift for
VL , excuse me , excuse me , F . V . L .
In that developing and fielding to new
major rotary platforms at the same time ,
future attack reconnaissance aircraft
far up or future long range assault
aircraft , Flora with future years
defense programs information this
year's . Excuse me , With it not in
here , it's difficult to assess what
the F . D . L . Funding
profile is going to be . However ,
subcommittees understanding that the
funding plan for the Flora
Was never revised in the out years
after decision was made to accelerate
the program by four years . Given the
concurrent acquisition of these
programs , the army should explain how
these programs will be appropriately
resourced and what actions are being
taken to manage risks within the future
vertical lift . As in last year's
budget , the army did not include
procurement funding for the CH 47 F
block to chinook . Only the new special
operations forces air crafted are
funded . The Chinook program is
conducting additional testing on the
advanced rotor blade now and should
have sufficient data collected and
analyzed for a production decision by
the end of fiscal year 21 . Certainly
we're interested in discussing the way
ahead for the chinook block to with the
Department of the Navy . The Navy is
completed acquisition of its fleet
workhorse the MH 60 and is beginning to
plan the Service Lights extension
program to keep these aircraft relevant
into the next decade . While the Marine
Corps is in the testing phase of two
new , the CH 53 K heavy lift helicopter
in the Bh 92 either replacement of the
presidential helicopter program . After
15 years of development , the CH 53 K
program is still discovering new uh and
operational difficulties that need to
be corrected . I understand some of
those are already corrected but granted .
Uh , this is the purpose for the
acquisition system program to bring out
these problems before fielding the
systems . But obviously the 53K
programs should be much further along
at this point and major problem
discoveries . Uh , something that we
hope not to expect any more of expect
Marine courts to explain how they
anticipate controlling risk and the
cost of this program . Uh the air
forces on their transitioning to
a new combat rescue helicopter , the HH
60 whiskey and a replacement helicopter
for the nuclear security missions . The
MH 1 39 Grey Wolf . I expect the Air
Force witnesses to provide updates on
how these programs are progressing and
justify the requests or in this case
Grey Wolf , the lack of one for fiscal
year 22 . Finally , I'm interested in
what each is services are doing to
increase survivability for the rotary
wing fleet and if and how they're
working together to leverage research
and investment in aircraft , survive
survivability equipment and for the
common benefit . Our helicopter pilots
and crews deserve the best self
protection and safety systems available
With that . I want to take a moment to
recognize our ranking member of
technical Air land . This is heart ,
sir . Thank you . Mr . Chairman And I
also want to thank our witnesses for
being here with us today and I look
forward to receiving an update on the
status of each service is unique ,
rotary wing aviation programs and their
plans for both the sustainment and
modernization of their respective
helicopter fleet capabilities . Our
main , deeply concerned that the
president's Fy 22 budget request does
not adequately resource our national
security and further places military
leadership in an untenable position of
having to make impossible choices
between near term operational readiness ,
sustainment of enduring capabilities
and long term modernization priorities .
Today's hearing will provide an
opportunity for us to gain a better
insight of how each services rotary
wing aviation fleets have been impacted
by this budget and whether any major
changes to sustaining programs or
future equipment and modernizing
strategies will result with shrinking
budgets and shifting focus . It is
critical that this subcommittee
understands how each service views
rotary wing aircraft fitting into their
future modernization plans and what
added capabilities will be required in
multi domain operations against appear
or near pier challenge in the indo
pacific region , I expect our witnesses
to discuss what major sustainment
readiness and management issues each
service is facing as you adapt your
rotary wing aviation portfolio to this
new operational focus and what are you
doing now to address these issues ? I'm
pleased to see that the army is
continuing to prioritize the
development of a future vertical lift
capability . As one of its top six
modernization priorities , The army is
clearly leading the way on vertical
future vertical lift , developing both
the future attack and reconnaissance
aircraft and the future long range
assault aircraft . At the same time , I
look forward to the discussion on both
the development status and future
potential of this major modernization
effort . I also hope to hear how the
Navy and Marine Corps are working with
the Army and planning to capitalize on
Army efforts and development in their
own future vertical lift programs ,
sustainment and modernization of
existing rotary wing platforms is also
critical as we look forward toward the
future of rotary wing aviation . We
must not overlook the rotary wing
aircraft currently playing a
significant role in the missions and
operations of our military services and
our National Guard . Today . Some of
these units have been waiting for
necessary aircraft upgrades and
replacements for quite some time near
to my heart . We have the Army's 11
35th assault helicopter battalion at
Whiteman Air Force Base who is
anxiously awaiting the arrival of its U .
H 60 cm Blackhawks to replace its aging
you H 60 L fleet in 2023 .
And lastly , I expect each service to
briefly discuss their current aircraft .
Survivability equipment projects and
developments , helicopters fly low and
relatively slowly , rendering them
especially vulnerable to enemy weapons .
I want to reemphasize the chairman's
statement that our helicopter pilots ,
crews and passengers deserve the best
self protection and safety systems
available . This seems to be an area
where jointness would be without debate ,
leveraging research and investment
projects and aircraft survivability and
safety for the common benefit of all
our war fighters . I thank the chairman
for organizing this important and
timely hearing before we mark up our
fiscal Year 22 National Defense
Authorization Act and I yelled back
thank you appreciate it . Um and let's
turn to our witnesses . Um Today
joining us is Mr Doug Bush , acting
assistant secretary of the Army for
acquisitions , logistics and technology ,
who we've had the honor of two coddles
uh that have been very informative .
Good to have you here . Lieutenant
General Peterson , Deputy Chief of
Staff of the Army for programs . Mr
Stephanie is acting Assistant Secretary
of Navy for research , development and
acquisition . Lieutenant General Wise ,
Deputy accommodation for aviation for
the Marine Corps , Rear Admiral Andrew
lower cell that I get that right , mm
hmm . Uh Director of Air Warfare ,
uh Division for naval operations . Miss
Darlene Costello , Acting assistant
Secretary of the Air Force or
acquisition , Technology and Logistics .
Major General moore . Director of
Programs . Office of the Deputy Chief
of Staff of the Air Force for plans and
programmes . We've asked for our
opening statement of one per service
and with that Mr Bush , please proceed
with your statement . Thank you .
Mr Chairman , Chairman or cross ranking
member , Hartzler and distinguished
members of the House Armed Services
Committee subcommittee on Tactical Air
and Land Forces . Good afternoon .
Thank you for the invitation to appear
before you to discuss the Army's rotary
wing aviation portfolio and the
resources requested in the president's
budget for fiscal year 2022 . I'm
pleased to be joined today by my
teammate , Lieutenant General Eric
Peterson , deputy Chief of Staff G
eight , as well as our Navy , Marine
Corps and Air Force counterparts . We
appreciate your making are written
statement . Part of the record for
today's hearing . MR . Chairman . Our
shared mission in the army is to ensure
the army continues to achieve overmatch
against all potential adversaries
ensuring that our army can fulfill its
mandate to successfully deter and , if
necessary , fight and win our nation's
wars as part of the Joint Force . Next ,
I'd like to briefly take a moment to
address the subcommittee specific
requests outlined in the invitation .
First , the committee asked for an
overview of Army aviation ,
modernization and equipping strategies
for Fy 22 that identified major plan
changes in the strategy from Fy 21
Overall , I think the F- 22 budget
request for the army reflects
continuity and the armies continued
commitment to its high priority
modernization programs . Well , members
will find adjustments were made to some
programs . I believe that the FY22
budget request of 34.1 billion overall
for army research , development and
acquisition , Which includes 2.8
billion for aviation procurement and
1.8 billion for aviation research and
development reflects careful choices
and supports continued progress on the
army's top modernization priorities .
Second , the committee asked for an
explanation of major new modernization
initiatives in Fy 22 . In response , I
would ask the committee members to
review our joint witness statement that
summarizes our ongoing efforts to
modify to modernize our current fleets
as well as the progress we're making to
develop future platforms , such as the
ones mentioned by the chairman , Farrah
Flora and also future unmanned aircraft
systems . Third , the committee asked
for an identification and description
and justification of unfunded
priorities . Major equipment shortfalls
and unacceptable risk with regard to
unfunded priorities . I would refer
members to the Army Chief of Staff's
unfunded party list . In addition , I
am not aware of any major equipment
shortfalls or unacceptable risks in my
area of responsibility . 4th , the
committee asked for an assessment of
loitering industrial base in its
ability to support army modernization
and sustainment . While no budget is
without risk , I'm confident the
request before you represents what we
consider acceptable risk to the rotary
wing industrial base . With the help of
Congress , the army has used multi year
procurement contracts as a means to
both achieve significant cost savings
and ensure industrial base stability .
I would ask for the committee's support
of the Army's Fy 22 requests for new
multi year procurement authority for
both the Apache and Blackhawk aircraft
fit . The committee requested an
overview of the Army's aircraft .
Survivability systems . Aircraft .
Survivability is of course a critical
element of the Army's modernization and
readiness efforts to equip the force
and maintain dominance . The aircraft
survival portfolio provides advanced
laser defeat capabilities such as the
common infrared countermeasure system ,
which would be an enduring system for
other systems . I would request
discussing that in a different setting .
Lastly , the committee asked us to
provide any other budget details and
programs you believe merit attention to
include notable acquisition reform
efforts . I think this budget request
reflects a careful balance , as I
mentioned , between funding for
enduring and future modernization with
respect to authorities were grateful to
you and your colleagues on the
Committee for Reform initiatives that
have been instrumental in our efforts
to streamline and gain efficiencies in
the acquisition process . This includes
our use of middle tier acquisition
authority for rapid prototyping to
accelerate efforts linked to our
modernization priorities . We have also
used other transaction authority where
O . T . A . S . To help streamline the
acquisition , research activities ,
prototype projects and follow on
production . In both of these areas .
You have my commitment that the army
will use these authorities
conservatively and only were needed to
accomplish our modernization objectives .
You also have my commitment to ensure
appropriate internal Army oversight
measures are in place to monitor the
use of these authorities . Let me close
by saying that realization of our
modernization efforts is highly
dependent on what is in the Army's Fy
22 budget request , the investments in
this budget , request , complement and
reinforce the Army's modernization
efforts . You have so far steadfastly
supported . The key is predictable ,
adequate , timely and sustained funding
to ensure the United States Army
remains the best equipped to enforce in
the world . I sincerely appreciate your
time today and look forward to your
questions . Thank you . Thank you . Mr
Stephanie , mm . Thank you .
Chairman or cross . Thank you . Member
hustler , Distinguished members of the
subcommittee on behalf of myself .
Lieutenant General Mark Wise , the
deputy commandant for Aviation and
we're Admiral Andrew Louise L Director
of Air Warfare . Thank you for the
opportunity to appear before you today
to address the Department of Navy's
2022 budget request for rotary aviation .
We are pleased to testify alongside our
Department of Army and Department of
Air Force colleagues . Navy and Marine
Corps Forces operate forward and
conduct a broad range of military
missions in support of the Joint Force .
The Department rotary rotary craft
capability is a key enable enabler of
our naval mobility When coupled with
air capable ships . These aircraft
provides speed range and flexibility to
give our nation unmatched global reach
and expeditionary agility . Their
versatility is unmatched rotorcraft ,
transport , marines , sailors ,
equipment and supplies from ships and
land bases , two amphibious assault .
And for operations ashore , Rotorcraft
pilots make up more than 50% of our
naval aviators support a broad range
emissions from anti submarine warfare
to human humanitarian assistance and
disaster relief . Our road a craft are
ready to fight tonight and going
forward . They will remain the
workhorses of the future Naval force .
Over the past year we took delivery of
33 new rotary aircraft and we procured
56 more aircraft during the year . We
also completed just recently the
initial operational testing of the VH
92 Alpha presidential helicopter . To
continue this progress toward the
commandant's force design 2030
initiative , as well as the Chief of
Naval Operations Vision for distributed
maritime operations . The Fy 22 budget
requests funds for the procurement of 7
53 new man rotorcraft , well
supporting the initial production of 53
kg king stallion helicopters . It also
prioritizes recapitalization of the
helicopter training fleet through
continued procurement of the T H 73
alpha training aircraft . The
department is scheduled to take
delivery of our very first th 73 alpha
later this week And a total of 52 of
those aircraft are planned for delivery
by the end of 2021 . The Fy 22 budget
also continues investment in
modernization and service like life
extensions for MH 60 and H one fleets
that are foundational to the Navy and
Marine Corps helicopter helicopter
concept of operations , modernization
programs for these platforms are
focused on survivability and sensor
networks and communication that will
keep the platforms technically relevant
as we look to develop the future
vertical lift systems that will replace
them overall , this budget represents
the deliberate informed development of
a modernized integrated and all Domain
Naval Force for the future fight . It
requires us to think differently , move
faster and prioritize each dollar to
meet an uncertain environment as we
focus on building this all domain naval
force to address are facing threat
presented by our strategic competitors .
We thank the Congress and this
subcommittee for your continued
continued leadership and support . And
with that , we look forward to your
questions . Thank you . Thank you Miss
Stella , please .
Which is your microphone or
not ? Right , can you hear me now ?
Great , Thank you . Sorry about that .
Uh Chairman Norcross , ranking Member
Hartzler and distinguished members of
the subcommittee on behalf of myself
and Major General More . We thank you
for having us here today to provide
testimony on the Department of the Air
Force's fiscal Year 22 rotary Wing
aviation budget request . Additionally ,
thank you for your continued leadership
and dedication to the United States
military and the Department of the Air
Force is 689,000 . Total force airmen
and guardians serving around the world
today . Our nation faces a complex
set of current and future security
challenges that require us to think
different and act different and with
urgency . Our Chief of Staff of the Air
Force General CQ Brown has articulated
what is at stake . He has stated that
unless we make significant changes to
the Air Force's program Force , we will
not meet the pacing threat of china in
2030 and unless something changes , we
will not be able to accomplish the Air
Force's core missions in the future
operating environment . If we are to
modernize to address the emerging
threat , we must efficiently use
resources tied to our outdated and
underperforming platforms and weapons
systems , which are decreasing in
relevance today and will be irrelevant
in the future . We must strike a
balance between risk in the near term
and risk in the future . The Department
of the Air Force rotorcraft are key
components of the national defense
strategies . Lethal force modernization
effort are rotorcraft are integral
across a range of operations ,
including modern and reliable personnel
recovery , special operations , nuclear
security and continuity of government .
Thanks to the support of this
subcommittee , we've made great strides
in our efforts to improve rotorcraft
readiness and set the tone for
modernization . But there remains work
to be done . The fiscal year of 2022
budget continues investment in the
Department of the Air Force . Critical
Rotorcraft modernization programs . As
you're aware of , the Department of the
Air Force is the only service with a
dedicated force organized , trained and
equipped to execute theater wide
personnel recovery . To accomplish this
vital mission , we must continue to
sustain support and upgrade the aging
HH 60 G fleet until we can fully
recapitalize with the HH 60 W . Jolly
Green too . The HH 60 G retirements
began this year with the continued
retirement timeline that aligns with
completion of fielding 105 HH 60 W
rotorcraft . In fy 27 the first
operational unit has already been
received . The first production HH 60W
was delivered on June eight of this
year . The FY 22 Presidents Budget
Request Ads 14 HH 60
W aircraft to the 51 that are already
funded . Yeah , The Image 1
39 aid program is an element of the Air
Force Nuclear Enterprise Reform
Initiative and also supports
operational airlift within the national
capital region . The MH 1 39 a offers
significant capability increases in
areas of speed , range , endurance ,
payload and survivability . This
program will deliver up to 80
replacement helicopters , training
devices and associated support
equipment to replace the legacy You H
one ends while technical issues have
delayed the FAA certification . We are
confident Boeing can make the necessary
changes to minimize schedule delays
going forward to meet the challenges of
a highly contested environment . We're
also developing the next generation of
vertical takeoff and landing platforms
Through a half works ability prime
we've put more than $100 million 20
electric vertical takeoff and landing .
Industry partners to move towards
fielding this transformative commercial
technology for distributed logistics
and personnel transport . Early
investment in this technology will
allow us to influence system design ,
foster industry growth and accelerate
fielding . We thank you for your
leadership and support and are eager to
work with this subcommittee to secure
our nation's vital interest . We look
forward to your questions . Thank you
for your testimony . Each of you very
much appreciate it . Um , mhm We're
going to work through again the votes
here and we're going to take whatever
time is necessary . We value what you
do each and every day and your time and
certainly our towel staff food through
such a wonderful job . Keeping us
informed are focused on this and please
do not take the little disruption of
anyway , diminishing what you do each
and every day . And with that , I'd
like to start out with questions of
myself , Miss Hearts and then we'll go
to both the remote and here in the bush .
Ah we've had conversation literally
over years concerning the chinook and
again this year , uh , some of the
deferments that were going on versus
the original vision of the block to
upgrades . Uh , We had the previous
discussion about the heavy lift for
the army and when that decision was to
be made , uh let's make sure that we
cleared up on the record . The decision
for what you're going to do Is in year
23 because this is we had the
conversation and had much discussion .
I just make sure we're clear on this .
Yeah , Sir . My yes . My understanding
of the army's previous decision that
still holds is that that was a calendar
year 2023 decision , counter year
versus budget year . And forgive us for
throwing that off .
Obviously developing two new programs
at one time is challenging at best .
We're trying to minimize that and what
you've done preparing for it is truly
noteworthy . Uh However the
time frame going on is you potentially
could have three going on . Um Which
could present some challenges uh when
you expect to get the The
funding for 21 . The authorization you
expect to be put those under contract
by the end of this fiscal year or this
counter year this fiscal year ,
sir . Okay . It makes a difference . If
you're listening to this , it gets
confusing but it's incredibly important .
We start looking at that . Thank you .
Really appreciate that . What I'm going
to do is try to get everybody in at
least for one and we're gonna go
multiple rounds this way we can
have some more continuity . Mrs
Hartzler ? Yes . Thank you . Lieutenant
General Peterson , I'm interested in
the status of the U . H . 60 M .
Upgrade program . As you know ,
Whiteman Air Force Space currently has
you age 60 els and have been promised
the delivery of you age 60 KMs and Fy
2023 to replace this aging fleet . So
can you assure me that the decrease in
procurement of you age 60 In the
FY 2022 budget will not impact this
feeling . Strategy and timeline .
Oh
yes ,
struggling with the systems here . Um ,
frank , remember thank you for that
question . And uh , the first of the
one 35th as well as the third of the to
38th with the H H 60 medevac variants
are still on track for their Fy 23
24 . Uh , fielding phased fielding's
um consistent with our continued
investment in the MIC model program .
Two very distinguished units . I had
the pleasure of uh , actually serving
with and helping mobilize portions of
those my previous assignments . So we
are not relenting from our commitments ,
particularly with our National Guard
units uh to stay on track with our
modernization efforts . And our chief
has been very emphatic about that . So
we are we're maintaining that momentum
and focus . That's great news . Thank
you very much .
You recognized . Thank you so much . Mr
Chairman and thank you everyone for
participating today . I have a general
question to start with and I guess it
would be directed to general wise , you
know , in previous committee hearings ,
especially with fixed wing and the
different components . We've heard of
the concerns of a decrease in the
number of um I
guess pilots that are graduating from
our pilot programs and a shortage of
pilots to fly are fixed wing aircraft
and the projected um recruitment and
successful graduation of pilots to fly
those aircraft . Looking at the overall
um , you know , rotary wing request in
this budget . Is there any concerns
about producing enough rotary
pilots coming out of our training um ,
locations to fly these new rotary
aircraft that we want to procure ? Yeah ,
sir , thank you for the question . Uh
the short answer to your question for
rotary wing pilots is we're actually in
pretty good shape with regard to rotary
wing . I would say that our current
manning is within the squadron's
arranges for all of our type model
series from 96% man , uh to 86% at
the low end and we consider healthy at
85 . So we're . were healthy in all
regards , but that's , as you indicate ,
not something you want to rest on . So
we spend a lot of time with our
training folks , Sinatra that works
with Admiral louis l uh and we uh
watch our production rates to ensure
that we're meeting our goals to make
sure that we don't drop any lower or we
see leading indicators of their coming
and right now we're still producing at
a rate that we should stay healthy for
the foreseeable future on the rotary
wing side . Great , thank you . Well ,
let me shift . I represent Hawaii and
um of course in GOP . Com and
looking at and this is a could be a
question for anyone on the committee .
But looking at Admiral Aquilino and
previous , Admiral Davidson is in the
pacific deterrence initiative . Um ,
and the , you know , um , you know ,
rapidly building chinese military and
what they're doing out in the Western
pacific um , how do we see this budget
request for the modernization and the
future investment of um vertical lift
capability new and the replacement of
our aging rotary fleet to play into the
pacific deterrence initiative and how
we would fight uh a war um in the
Western pacific um that is largely
um , you know , geographically
challenged with uh you know , vast
oceans and areas that we need to travel .
How do you , how do you foresee that
playing out in these investments that
we're making with rotary wing aircraft
that could have a refueling capability ,
could have the capability for multiple
crews so that they can extend their
ranges and their distances . And some
of those challenges as we take those
rotary aircraft into the um um you know ,
areas of vulnerability based on the
defensive systems and the weapons that
china has be happy to take a
crack at that . Yes , sir . Go ahead .
Yeah , Thank you very much for that
question and the insights associated
with that from , from the Army's
perspective , Flora and Farrah . Our
FTL signature initiatives are tailor
made for the extended ranges and the
dynamics and the threat of that
emergent fight . Both Flora and Flora
are absolutely vital to our
modernization efforts . Farah is
fulfilling the number one gap in the
Army aviation capability with a
dedicated purpose built armed
reconnaissance aircraft . The key
points to be uh made with Flora and
Flora is they both extend our reach
with absolutely unprecedented speed ,
range , endurance and equally as
important . The effects of long range
precision munitions and other air
launched effects . And these
capabilities , combined with a
networked kill chain . A joint kill
chain will allow us to reject
capability from unprecedented standoff
and deliver stand in effects .
Those will present multiple dilemmas to
our foes and they're going to provide
exceptional options to our joint force
commanders . The high fidelity modeling
that we have done and could share in
another forum with you clearly and
empirically demonstrates the value of
these capabilities against near pier
threats and in the specific areas that
you referenced . So thank you . Thank
you . General market share . Mhm . We
have six minutes and 50 seconds . You
want to go for it ? You want to come
back ? I'll go ahead and ask one
question . Okay then we recognize you .
Right , Okay .
Well uh General Peterson , I actually
was just about to ask you that same
question . So thank you . But I did
want to pass along General Homes from
Tennessee , sent me a note to send his
regards , a good friend of both of ours .
So uh I moved to miss Costello and
Major General More . Um it
has been very interesting to watch the
work that the Air Force is done with
the Agility Prime program . Can you
give the committee a brief description
of what Agility Prime is as well as
some of the results that have produced
have been produced by the program .
Can you hear me ? Agility Prime is a
way that we use our S and T . Money .
Are small business money to get
industry that's out there investing
their own money on new technologies and
especially in this case with the um
electric lift capabilities that they
might be investing in for other reasons
and seeing where that can benefit our
military . So if they found a way for
electric battery life to last longer ,
that would be beneficial for us if they
found a better way to sustain um and
support and have lower cost for
sustainment , That's something we're
looking at . So there have been
multiple companies that we've invested
given money to allow them to use our
ranges and go off and demonstrate their
capability , work on getting
certifications for airworthiness and
with the expectation that there will be
uses for that capability in the future .
Um and we're working with our operators
to see where there are good matches if
you will for that . And it's proven to
be very interesting and and industry is
quite interested in participating in
that because they would like to be able
to help the Department of Defense in
the future . And they do see that .
Okay . I'd like to just put in a plug
for University of Tennessee Space
Institute . I know they're working on
some of the problems with the battery
and power source issues , so we're glad
to help out . Um if you want to stop
there . Yeah , but we're going to have
to recess . We're going to take two
votes . Uh just to bring it to your
attention . We were just told that
former Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld passed away . Certainly
somebody who gave very much this
country with that . We'll recess and
we'll be back in short while
we'll call this committee hearing back
to order . Uh We understand Mr Hartford
is on webex . Can you hear me steve
steve going once , going
twice and you'll get back to us ?
Obviously people are in between votes
and we appreciate against your
indulgence . Uh So that's uh
back to me . Thank you . Uh
number of things uh that have gone on
and I want to go to you Mr Bush and
talk about the multiyear request . And
why is this important ? Obviously
timing complexity but generally cost is
a big factor . Mhm . Why is this
important this programs that you
indicated that we go for a multi year
on that ? So thanks Mr Chairman . Um
So one reason of course is cost savings .
So the army um current estimate that
delivered to the committee for
Blackhawk and Apache combined as half a
billion dollars . That could be
over the five years of the , sorry ,
sir ? Over the five years of the multi
years . Um So that's one reason . And
we would uh yes and possibly hopefully
be able to keep that and invested in
other aviation . Um The second reason
is industrial base stability and
predictability . Um It is a which is
where you get the cost savings ,
they're able to do long term contracts
for things and get discount prices . Um
It also ensures the Army has those
those uh production lines um running
and then we have a known to known
production lines . It'll be firm .
Thank you . Actually . It leads right
into my second question about our
industrial base . Uh We're always going
through changes evaluating new
technologies coming before us . But at
the end of the day having the
industrial base within the control of
the United States and that has an
asterisk next to it because , you know ,
this is incredibly important . We found
out about the supply chain and
vulnerabilities , but I want to talk to
you about the industrial partners ,
particularly on our future vertical
lift . Um there are some major
contractors , obviously they're doing
very well , but when we shift away from
some of the , I don't like using the
term legacy , but platforms have been
used for a while . Sometimes we get
down to one supplier for critical part .
Um we don't do this alone , we do it
with our industrial partners . When we
look at the future vertical left to
program that you're reducing risks ,
we've had some great demonstrators talk
to me about the industrial base if you
would general and how important that is ,
particularly when we look at
developing that next generation of
workforce who hears the same narrative
day and day out to make it in America ,
you got to go to college , but you know
what ? That's great , but somebody's
got to build the things and that's
where it comes back to that industrial
base . Would you shed some light on our
industrial partners ? Thanks very
much , Chairman for that question . Um ,
first , the necessity and the
vitality of our industrial base
directly influences our enduring
readiness . We don't build our own
parts for the most part . Um , we don't
have the sustainability and repair on
our own without our industrial partners ,
our industry partners . So it's
absolutely vital across our enduring
fleet and that's the term that we are
using for those aircraft that we may
not be modernizing substantially , but
we know that we are going to retain
them in our fleet for a substantial
amount of time and they have an
important contribution to make the
patchy the Blackhawk chinook . They're
part of our enduring fleet . We are not
divesting comprehensively of those .
They have a place and we need to
maintain those , those aircraft ready
and have part streams and repair parts
for those for the foreseeable future .
We work very closely with our teammates
and assault as well as Army material
Command to ensure that we have
viability in the industrial base to
include suppliers for those with
respect to the workforce . I've had the
pleasure of visiting , um , locations ,
uh , all of our major
manufacturers and meet the craftsmen
and women on the floor who provide us
with these incredible world class
capabilities that we've taken to combat
and brought home again and thank them
for their contributions , their
commitment and their part that they
play in our national defense . So the
workforce , um , in our industry
partners , an absolute vital portion of
our overall efforts . Thank you . Thank
you . And certainly it should certainly
be noted that during Covid obviously
the servicemen and women never got a
break . But for those in our industrial
base who went to work every day
particularly early on when they had
little knowledge of how it was
spreading . Uh We thank them also
because we would not be here today if
somehow this industrial base stopped .
And we really appreciate all those who
put themselves out there . Uh Just want
to shift quickly over to uh miss
Costello subcommittee obviously has
been supportive of the army and and so
common led efforts for the degraded
visual environment or the D . V .
System for helicopters . And we're
really pleased that the Air Force
joined the effort . Uh and I talked
about how we can work together and
budgeted the system For the current H
60 G helicopter . Now , in the 22
requests it's cancelled . Uh
Can you share with us the thought
process on that that we geared up and
now we're hearing down quite frankly ,
stopping . Uh give me a little bit of
history of why we are , where we are
today . Um
So as the as the
timeline for the aircraft moved out to
the right and the timeline for
integration of that , the basically the
return on investment of what would be
able to install it before we would be ,
you know , removing the aircraft from
our inventory became part of the
equation and that led to , you know ,
assessing the risk of what we're going
to fund and not fund and therefore ,
Combatant Commander looked at that and
decided to not fund at this point uh
for that for that particular aircraft .
Um I don't know if you'd like to add
anything more relative to the
divestiture , because that does have
part to do with the equation . Mhm
Yes , ma'am , thank you . So , as we ,
as we change the divestiture profile
for the HH 60 G and compared that as
Miss Costello said to the , to the
installed timeline in the amount of
investment , um it just did not appear
to be a good use of taxpayer dollars .
It doesn't , it doesn't mean we don't
believe in the system and it doesn't
mean we don't believe that it's that
it's very productive for the pilots and
very helpful for them . It just didn't
make sense in this particular case for
this particular aircraft , but but we
do we do share Mr . Chairman your
thoughts that uh it is , it is a
significant enhancement for the pilots
and and we'll continue to look as we go
forward with new fleets and
incorporating that into into either the
baseline configuration or into a
modification later on , always .
So the dollars that were expended , uh ,
they just don't get lost . That
technology is being forward to the
newer platform . So we have the , we
have the opportunity to incorporate
that into the new aircraft . It is not
a part of the baseline to my knowledge ,
but we do have the opportunity to
incorporate it in . And as we're able
with available funds , that's something
that we certainly will look at .
Because as I said , MR chairman , we do
share your sense that it is something
that's helpful . We we have funded the
HH 60 W uh , to what we believe is the ,
The minimum combat configuration .
There are additional modifications that
could go onto the airplane . But at
this point with the resources that we
have , not all of the modifications
that were originally planned for the HH
60W are included in the current
aircraft . So I understand the timeline ,
but how does it become less of a safety
issue that you wouldn't incorporate it ?
I mr Chairman , I don't know that . I
would say that , first of all , I don't
know that . I would say that it is a um
that it's a requirement for a safe
aircraft . It is an enhancement to the
aircraft . It does improve safety but
we don't believe it's a safety of
flight issue to not have it on the
aircraft . Um And and as I mentioned
that technology will be available for
the HH 60 W . But as we accelerated the
timeline for the G model compared to
the installation timeline , it just
didn't seem to make fiscal , it didn't
seem to be fiscally responsible . Okay ,
I don't understand . Let me hold up on
that and deferring Mrs Hart , sir .
Thank you . Lieutenant General Wise ,
I'd like to discuss the CH 53 K heavy
lift helicopter program and how the
Marine Corps plans to control costs now
and through the life cycle of the
program . Right now , we're buying a
helicopter with a higher Unit costs
than the F- 35
CH 53 K costs were hovering around
$125 million . A copy in
fy 21 costs should decrease once the
program gets too full rate production .
But now I see that the Marine Corps
plans to procure only nine aircraft
this year down from the 11 projected in
Fy 21 fight up Decreasing procurement
numbers has become a trend over the
past few years . Combined with the
marine course , current plan to reduce
from 8 to 5 squadrons , Is it
also the Marine Corps plan to truncate
the CH 53 K procurement at a number
below the current requirement for 200
aircraft . And if so , how will this
impact that current unit cost per
aircraft ?
Senior ranking member ? I very much
appreciate the question . The uh for
the control cost piece of uh of it . I
mean , that's as you know , we've
attacked that in two directions . One
is trying to drive down the unit cost ,
Which is worthy of discussion . The
unit cost on Lot five , which was this
year is 97
million per copy . Uh the uh
Where we are going in 22 , it appears
it's going to be about 94 , so it is on
the way down and and at this point it
is down below the cost of uh of an F35
and trending in the right direction .
Uh so a lot of the reductions in
numbers over recent history really had
to do with uh trying to do risk
reduction initiatives to get through
some of the challenges , but right now
we've actually had great success in
getting through those challenges like
engine gas re ingestion has been uh
we're actually passed that now , so uh
as we get ready to start into um uh
IOT any , so operational tests were
actually starting next month , we're
seeing some fairly impressive readiness
rates for the test birds that are going
to be doing that operational test . So
there is some good news stories as we
have done the risk reduction
initiatives and help driven down costs
for procurement . It also goes into the
sustainment side of the house , things
like uh performance based logistics ,
starting early with that platform to
get some of those parts into
performance based logistics contracts
to keep driving down the cost and
incentivized industry to drive down the
cost . So there's , there's a lot of
good things happening right there as
far as the force design question , Uh ,
and reduction , the original
requirement was about 220 aircraft . It
was reduced to 200 in order to meet
affordability . Uh , so as we look at
force design and how that will affect
that program , uh , it if there is a
reduction , it will probably be less
than we , we would normally think had
we actually bought the program of
record , that was the requirement to
begin with . But as we get to
determining what that number is , any
reduction would not happen until the
end of the life cycle or the end of the
program by so that would , uh , working
with industry , reduce the likelihood
that costs would rise , uh , depending
on the last lot buys . So you're saying
you haven't decided yet whether you're
going to go below 200 and that will be
determined in the future . And if so
it'll be the last lot gets cut . Yes ,
Ma'am . It is , if we do and it is
possible . Absolute . It just won't be
as low as you might think if you did
like the straight math for it Because
of the requirement being to 20
initially . And part of that was also
based on a uh , an attrition rate that
had not been updated to current models .
So , uh , so it , it could go below 200
and it , it may , but I'm not sure it's
going to go grossly below . Yeah , sure .
We'll go closely below . Grossly below .
I don't think go , uh , here's mud all
of this general terms here . Okay , so
thank you . Last question Mr Bush ,
It's my understanding that the army and
the contractor on the improved turbine
engine program . The I tap have worked
through the manufacturing difficulties
posed in the last year by Covid to keep
I tap on schedule . However , previous
year plans to accelerate the schedule
have not been , have now been ruled
infeasible . How confident are you that
I tap can remain on schedule for
integration onto the future . Attack
and reconnaissance aircraft ? The
Farrah . And what risk do you see for
the program in FY 22 funding ? Uh , if
it is not provided the requested levels
and what risk would a cr post the
program timelines .
Thanks for the question man . So a
couple of those I'm going to have to
get back to you on , but let me see
best I can do here . Um , so , uh , of
course the engine is vital for the
Apache and Blackhawk future as well as
the Farrah . So it's a program the
army's committed to as you know , went
through many years with two vendors and
now we have one that did encounter uh ,
covid related in their case , uh ,
difficulties . Um , I think Any
reduction from the 22 requests would
put our um , current plan at risk . Um ,
but as far as detailed estimate
regarding potential additional uh ,
delays , I would have to get back to
you on that man . Okay . Thank you very
much . You're back . Thank you . I
understand . We have Mr horse furred
gentlemen from Nevada . Thank you .
Thank you very much for chairman and
the ranking member . Thank you as ,
as uh , well to our witnesses for your
service and testimony today . Army
National Guard aviators in my home
state of Nevada play an important role
in protecting the communities in my
district from the ever increasing
threat posed by wildfires . I'm very
proud of the work done every year by
both our Army National Guard U . H . 60
black Hawk and CH 47 chinook
aircrews as well as the C 1 30 pilots
of the Nevada Air National Guard .
Aerial firefighting provides the Nevada
division of Forestry and the U . S .
Forest Service with an important
resource that can protect firefighters
on the ground by making precise drops
that often prove critical in shaping
the fight against wildfires . While it
is not their primary purpose , the
aerial firefighting missions conducted
by the Nevada National Guard are some
of the most dangerous missions they fly
to include flying in combat . For that .
For that reason , I think it's vital
that the crews flying these dangerous
missions have access to the most
capable platforms and modern um
systems available both in my state and
across the west . Uh So Mr Bush and
General Peterson , how does the Army
factor in missions like aerial
firefighting into basing decisions for
upgraded uhh sixties ? Given the
consistent increase in demand for these
types submissions and the extreme risks
that they pose to air .
Thank you very much for that question .
First , I'd like to share um your
enthusiastic support and appreciation
for the role that are Army National
Guard and our Army Reserve units play
in in the defense of our homeland and
in vital civil support missions
with respect to specific prioritization
for fielding of
modernization capabilities . Those
fielding decisions within the Army
National Guard are prioritized by the
Army Guard and the Guard Bureau with
consultation and cooperation with the
Army staff , um but
primarily based on the contributions
they will make to our wartime missions
um for those combat aircraft , that is
their primary contribution . Although
there day in day out mission is very
vital and is clearly recognized . The
modernization priorities for our combat
platforms is largely based
on the wartime traces the
contributions that those organizations
will make in a large scale combat
operation fight . Mhm .
Thank you . On a similar note , it's my
understanding that Special Operations
Command will soon complete the
integration of the degraded visual
environment , a heritage system or the
D . B . E . Um given the
similar issues around
the risk of brownout or otherwise
severely degraded visual environments
faced by air crews conducting aerial
firefighting missions . I'm curious if
the army have considered building the
systems to National Guard crews tasked
with this mission . Um Does the army
currently intend to procure additional
D . DV systems for National Guard
aviation units who frequently conduct
aerial firefighting missions ? I don't
think so . That's a uh
another great question With respect to
R . D . V . E . Uh , Investments right
now in our developmental program , we
currently have 15 of the developmental
systems fielded on HH 60
Medevac Blackhawks in 25 fielded with
our special operations forces . Um ,
interestingly my most recent actual
flight , an aircraft . Just a few
months ago , I was in a D . V . E .
Equipped MH 47 G at Fort Campbell and
the contribution of that system to a
combat profile as well as enhancing
safety um , is substantial and
is very relevant . Um , We are using
these initial prototype or
developmental fielding's to inform a
long term strategy and long term
requirements and we have an additional
initial requirements document currently
in staffing that will inform longer
term Army strategy and investments . I
do not believe that uh , that we have
openly discussed and considered the
contribution this could make in in
aerial firefighting , but we will
certainly take that for consideration .
Thank you . Thank you very much . I
look forward to working with you and
the committee to improve the safety of
the crews flying these dangerous
missions . Thank you . Mr Chairman and
Madam , ranking member . And I yield
back thank you . Steve appreciate those
questions . Fire fighting
things that get smoke ,
unfamiliar areas . It's certainly
reminds us of the couple of the
accidents . I know the one in Iraq and
certainly our base in Afghanistan with
the cable going up incredibly important .
Uh , so Mrs Hart sir doesn't have any
other questions . I have one and uh ,
this is sort of a , I want to say slow
pitch but certainly to get your
feedback on that . When we look at the
innovation and technology upgrades on
many of what we're looking for in the
future . And the rotary wing ah
incorporating capabilities like
unmanned flight on major new platforms
and some are much more focused than
others . But in any of these , its the
complexity is something that is all
bounced with risk the time , the cost
on these platforms . Would each of
services discuss what innovation your
services expect out of these future
systems and how far along you are in
the research development and what
degree you think unmanned capabilities
will be part of your future fleet ?
Let's start with the army .
Mr Chairman . I'll start and if that
could turn to General Peterson on
requirements . Um so army does have
multiple unmanned aircraft programs
underway . The the overall , if I could
describe this way is more of a thinking
of them as part of a team with manned
aircraft . So it's they're they're not
operate completely independently in
most cases but teamed with manned
aircraft including even small USSR
launched through the for example , the
air launch effects S and T . And
experimentation efforts that can
possibly do different missions for us .
So I think moving along those lines to
where we can get better teaming between
manned and unmanned aircraft , I think
it's still the Army's overall plan .
While other efforts are underway and I
turned General Pearson to talk about
requirements .
Specifically some of the baseline
technologies that are already being
explored and demonstrated in both Flora
and Farrah will provide a foundation
for us to move forward um with either
optionally man partially manned or uh
advanced elements of unmanned unmanned
Teaming uh fly by wire technology with
our our flight controls , the digital
backbone . Um The modular open system
architecture that allows us to
integrate emergent capabilities um in
in our aircraft for the future will all
provide a foundation and a launching
point for these options or
opportunities . Additionally , uh , the
armies continued investment in AI and
machine learning will provide us the
technological foundation uh , for the
decision making or the automation that
will allow these uh , these
capabilities to move forward not only
in our rotary wing platforms but in
other aspects of our advanced combat
capabilities and modernization
priorities . You will be ready
for it and the technology you believe
will be there in an appropriate way at
an appropriate cost . Yeah , we are
absolutely investing in it and making
progress . I would hesitate to to give
a date time group for integration or
implementation these capabilities but
they are clearly a priority for a
continued research and development .
Thank you . Our Navy Marines . Is there
a again , I'll start and pass it to my
my service brethren as I think you're
where we have a Department of Navy
unmanned Campaign plan that lays out
those technologies and roadmaps to get
us to the place where that like our
army counterparts , we have that manned
unmanned teaming of the future a little
different than maybe in our case manned
and unmanned aircraft , but also
unmanned with ships and amphibious
ships , even submarines , that
connection of unmanned aircraft with
both manned aircraft and ships . So
with that introduction , I'll pass it
over to generalize , I would
say for the Marine Corps , the uh The
amount of investment into unmanned
systems is increasing . Clearly for us
we're going into the MQ nine a
rolls now . But the other areas that
we're going to are not just I . S . Are
so a lot of the work that's being done
by General Peterson's uh team and and
actually I spend quite a bit of time
with general barry as well on
development of things that are gonna
have logistics applications because as
we look at the vastness of the pacific
and trying to do distributed operations
with you know capacity constraints .
Can we do it with more unmanned
opportunities ? But part of the
constraint there is not that we don't
want to do it , it's there some of the
technology limitations that General
Peterson was talking to like the things
that make it truly autonomous . Can I
can I not just get there but can I
sense the zone and clear the zone and
sit down so that I can get rid of the
payload and go back and do it again .
So a lot of opportunities coming is
just maturing things uh to a point
where we can invest with a reasonable
certainty of success but we are going
in that direction . Sure . I think
Service Chairman uh from the Navy side
we are already implementing our Fire
Scout plan . So we've got rotary wing
unmanned already in the B and the C
version the sea is really about the
size of a Bell 407 helicopters , so
it's large and so you get some decent
range out of it . Uh , utilizing the
systems to do surveillance and that
type of stuff . It's also part of our
replacement plan for the MH 53
utilizing the mine hunting capabilities
of the Fire Scout uh , system . So
that is a , leading to an overall
family of unmanned systems . I had the
pleasure of commanding the USS George H .
W . Bush when we got the very first
arrested landing of a fixed wing
airplane unmanned . Uh , and now we've
just had our first plug of an F 18 into
an unmanned aerial refueling tanker .
And so we're making some good progress .
I'm very pleased with the way we're
going and C . N . O . Is all in with
our Unmanned campaign plan and so we
see a significant amount of development
in our future . Thank you ma'am Mr .
Chairman . Thank you for your question .
There are some use cases in the Air
Force for unmanned aircraft of a rotary
wing nature agility prime is looking at
Tv tall for example and there are some
great use cases for that is just a
quick example . If you think about the
range and Ellison the need to resupply
or move things around on that range and
you can do it very inexpensively . Was
something like the veto . Most of the
use cases that we have however are not
in the rotary rotary wing world but we
are exploring obviously both autonomous
aircraft and manned unmanned teaming .
I think the execute 58 is probably the
most powerful example that we have .
It's already flying and what it tends
to do really , really well is performed
as a node in the airborne , in the
advanced battle management system . Uh
communications relay a sensor . Uh and
as we look to a future that is enabled
by a sense Ingrid . Many of the parts
of that grid will likely be formed by
autonomous aircraft . So we certainly
are invested in this area and it's
something that we're paying attention
to it , something that's important with
us . The rotary wing aspect of it is
not quite the heart of the use case
that we have , but we do have some
examples in Miss Costello has a recent
one of those I'll pass to her pending
any questions you have , MR Chairman .
Thank you .
And specifically within our Agility
prime program they are looking at
autonomy is one of the areas of
interest . So with all of the companies
that they're working , autonomy is a
focus area . Uh since december of 2020
the kitty hawk example autonomy for
medevac exercise . They actually devon
matured and optimize the heavy side
prototype with autonomous flight and
demonstrated the first medical
evacuation by an electric aircraft . So
that's the sort of thing they're
investing in . And we hope to mature it
and be able to leverage in the future .
And of course , we're looking at an
area of interest of unmanned cargo type
capability also . And so those are the
areas Agility Prime is working . Thank
you . Mhm Mrs harper and I
have to go vote , but I understand my
colleague from Hawaii has a question .
So I want to thank you in advance for
your cooperation and working with us .
Uh but uh Mr kelly will be wrapping it
up and again appreciate what each of
you are doing and who you represent to
keep our nation safe . Thank you .
All right , Mr MS charon moloch ,
forgive me this opportunity to ask a
few more questions that I had and then
we'll wrap it up . I'll start with uh
General Peterson actually , let me go
back to the first question I have for
General wise sir , you know , I live on
the island of Hawaii but I represent
Hawaii's second congressional district
and this is not an issue that is just
unique to Hawaii and its helicopter
noise , especially around Kanye in
Marine Corps Base . And as as someone
who in a previous life Um operated C17
out of cab for for quite a while . I I
know those noise complaints from our
communities out there . But as um uh
you know , we're looking at um the
future of Canary Marine Corps Base ,
especially during weekend and and
nighttime training , which is required
to maintain readiness . Uh the aircraft
and helicopter flights can be loud and ,
you know , the base is great . They're
trying to do things out there to
mitigate that , but I just wanted to
ask on behalf of the community
organizations and the neighborhood
boards that represent uh , the windward
side of the island of Oahu , are you
committed um , to working with those
organizations , those neighborhood
boards , or at least through the uh ,
the base commander's that counter
Marine Corps Base to address their
concerns about noise and safety . And
if there's anything you want to add to
that , I'm sure they would appreciate
hearing it from you . Yeah , sir , I
appreciate the question and I do assure
you that uh , the longstanding
relationship we've had with the
community is is I think been very
positive and and for all the right
reasons . Uh , and I would also say
that from a course rules perspective as
you're well aware , trying to make sure
that we minimize the opportunity to
create challenges with the community .
We we always try to avoid that . Uh ,
and sometimes we don't . But uh , the
commitment is still there to to look at
every opportunity to make sure that we
are good , good partners uh , in good
community partners . Because we do
enjoy our relationship very much there
and we will continue to work with them .
Thank you for that . And as someone who
represents the windward side and I know
um , that they appreciate , uh ,
economy , Marine Corps Base and our our
military friends and families that live
on the island of Oahu . Thank you .
Okay , over to General Peterson , the
army has consistently discussed the
need for speed and range as well as
survivability when it comes to future
vertical lift aircraft . Could you
explain to the committee why speed and
range are so critical to the future
long range assault aircraft and how
this new technology will enable the
army to leverage um , that aircraft as
a power projection platform . And then
how will this capability assist the
army with its strategy in the indo
pacific theater in that great power
competition ? Uh huh .
Thank you for that question . Uh in
yeah , essentially , in basic terms ,
what we are striving to accomplish is
doubling the performance of what
we have appreciated and has been
exceptionally relevant for decades .
Speed and range will give us
a and absolutely
unprecedented capability , one that we
have never experienced before to
disaggregate aggregate , operate from
relative sanctuary and then project
effects as well as forces
at distances that our
enemies um will not be able to predict
and not be able to counter when we do
this in mass . Um in the face of
that determined adversity ,
the speed allows us to close
with our objectives at a rate
where we get inside of our foes
decision cycles and gives us the
opportunity to concentrate those
effects at the place of our choosing .
The range is in the indo pacific region
are obviously vast and it adds to our
relevance and our contribution in that
area as well . What is the impact on
that note of speed and range on the
medevac mission where we need to , you
know , get wounded soldiers to critical
care as quickly as early as safely as
possible . It's absolutely game
changing . It gives us the opportunity
to extract uh huh wounded
soldiers much more quickly and get them
to the higher levels of care . Um It
gives us also much more reach without
support , sustainment and exposure of
others um to extend those legs as we've
had to do in other theaters in recent
years . So that extended reach
again gets the wounded soldier too .
The competent medical care much more
quickly but also reduces the logistical
burden for those extended range is uh
to provide that capability . Okay ,
thank you for that . And if if I may uh
please mr Bush has one brief comment .
Israel we'd like to follow up on , sir ,
if I may . Um I did want to second
everything that you just heard but also
mentioned . I was remiss in my previous
answer and not mentioning the
tremendous innovation in the commercial
sector , an unmanned aircraft that the
army and the other services . I'm sure
drawing on there's just as much R . And
D . Out there as there is in the D . O .
T . And the Army futures Command in
particular I think is doing a very good
job of finding things and experimenting
with things in the commercial sector
for unmanned aircraft rather than us
developing things from scratch , which
I think given the investments are in
the private sector is a really good
approach . Okay , thank you . We jump
over last question of for the Air Force .
Miss Costello in general . More earlier
this month , General Henault testified
before the Sea power and projection
forces subcommittee that the Air Force
is considering a vertical lift platform
To replace the C130 as it seeks to move
away from fixed wing are fixed runway
requirements . General also said the
Air Force is watching the Army future
vertical lift program when it comes to
the development of vertical lift
transport technology . How would the on
time fielding of an army future
vertical transport aircraft such as the
future long range of salt aircraft
benefit the Air Force as it looks to
develop the next generation concepts .
And when possibly would we see a
potential Vertical lift C130
replacement fielded ?
Well , thank you for the question . Um
uh , it's certainly if you as you spoke
before about the distances in the
pacific . One of the things that we
think will be a part of the need to
perform well in the pacific is the
ability to move around between
different places according to a concept
we call agile combat employment . And
if you accept that fixed runways are
easy to find and therefore easy to
target , particularly in the 1st and
2nd island chain . They're they're all
within range of chinese ballistic
missiles . The ability to operate in a
runway independent way makes a great
deal of sense and is an important use
case . I'm sure that's what General
Heino talked about . We are watching
the army future vertical lift program
very carefully because it could provide
The mechanics behind how we could do
this as to when it would be field that
I think that would depend on what its
actual range in payload capabilities
would be and when it delivers . But if
you if you consider what the C130 ,
particularly the C138 can do in the
Pacific you would you would certainly
want to look to the next generation of
lift capability if you want to perform
an actual combat employment type of of
operation . Does that get to your
question sir ? It does and you know , I
get excited about it as somebody who
has about 1000 hours in the C 1 30 H
two and H three . And um as you know ,
we have C one thirties on Dakota , we
could possibly look at other locations
like Anderson for a potential unit ,
but you know , is this a type of
aircraft that you see would potentially
replace those older age ? Is that we
are looking at retiring or how would
that um compliment the j models that
we're investing in ? Of course , you
know , newer C one thirties that we're
basing in the pacific um is this the
type of aircraft that would be
potentially looked at in that 1st 2nd
island chain ? Um Yokota , Anderson and
maybe some other areas ? Yes , sir , I
think that would probably be the most
powerful use case and , and if you do
consider a doubling of performance now ,
you have now you potentially have an
aircraft that can , that can operate
over the distances and therefore with
the speed required to actually become
agile in the pacific . And I think
that's what's going to be required if
you consider the capabilities that
china has the target , fixed locations
and as as well as speed and range
performance , you really have to be
able to get away from our own way if
you're going to execute a concept like
that successfully . So we're watching
this closely and look forward to being
able to leverage what the army develops .
I would see it as a compliment to the J
model . I would see that there still
are use cases for the jays as well as
for C 17 um , commercial partners play
in that space as well up to a certain
point , but I would see this as a
compliment that could add or augment
the capabilities that we already have
in terms of strategic and tactical lift .
This would be something that it would
be really totally new for Air force as
well having vertical lift with , you
know , these types of aircraft , you
know , and and a whole new training
program that would be incorporated into ,
you know , those different um Little
rock and Altice and a different basis
where we haven't even not even doing
any of these things and we have to
incorporate that into those new
programs . It would yes , sir . And I
would expect that if we were going to
do that , we would leverage our
experience with the CV 22 as well as
the experience that the army has as
they feel the system a system like this
because it would particularly the
tactics and the and the techniques and
procedures , but just the basic
airmanship would be different than what
we do today . Thank you . What else ?
Okay , well um on behalf of the chair
and and the full committee , we want to
thank you for your testimony or
discussion , um , that you provided a
committee today . Um , It's been a very
dynamic day here on the hill with
having to step in and out of votes ,
but we sincerely appreciate your time ,
uh , the attentiveness , your work you
put into your testimony . So with that
being said , this committee stands
adjourn and law . Mhm . Q .