WEBVTT 00:00.620 --> 00:02.870 - Asked if we would begin with opening statements. 00:02.870 --> 00:04.672 He should be here shortly. 00:04.672 --> 00:07.075 The committee meets today to receive testimony 00:07.075 --> 00:10.210 on the United States Africa Command and Southern Command. 00:10.210 --> 00:14.390 I welcome our witnesses and thank them for their service, 00:14.390 --> 00:18.210 General Thomas Waldhauser, Commander of U.S. Africa Command, 00:18.210 --> 00:22.146 Admiral Craig Faller, Commander of U.S. Southern Command. 00:22.146 --> 00:26.180 General Waldhauser, this is likely your last hearing 00:26.180 --> 00:27.550 before this committee. 00:27.550 --> 00:30.220 I wanna thank you for your nearly 43 years 00:30.220 --> 00:33.520 of dedicated service to this nation. 00:33.520 --> 00:34.900 It's also fitting to note 00:34.900 --> 00:39.900 that 12 years ago yesterday, February 6, 2007, 00:40.360 --> 00:42.130 President George W. Bush directed 00:42.130 --> 00:45.170 the creation of U.S. Africa Command. 00:45.170 --> 00:48.130 It was the right decision and AFRICOM continues 00:48.130 --> 00:52.070 to play a vital role in the defense of our nation. 00:52.070 --> 00:55.260 This committee's top priority is to ensure 00:55.260 --> 00:57.400 the effective implementation 00:57.400 --> 00:59.650 of the National Defense Strategy, 00:59.650 --> 01:03.199 which identifies competition with China and Russia as 01:03.199 --> 01:08.199 the central challenge to U.S. prosperity and security. 01:08.940 --> 01:11.560 Both AFRICOM and SOUTHCOM should be viewed 01:11.560 --> 01:14.720 as key fronts in our global campaign 01:14.720 --> 01:17.390 to compete with China and Russia. 01:17.390 --> 01:19.570 In both of your areas of responsibility, 01:19.570 --> 01:21.945 China and Russia are increasingly active 01:21.945 --> 01:24.400 using economic and military means 01:24.400 --> 01:28.260 to expand their influence and challenge U.S. interests. 01:28.260 --> 01:31.760 And while, on behalf of the chairman, we agree with the need 01:31.760 --> 01:34.527 to prioritize our efforts against China and Russia, 01:34.527 --> 01:38.040 we cannot take pressure off of terrorist groups 01:38.040 --> 01:40.060 like ISIS and al-Qaeda. 01:40.060 --> 01:41.490 Despite operational setbacks, 01:41.490 --> 01:44.520 these groups continue to control territory in Africa 01:44.520 --> 01:46.820 and still pose a very real threat 01:46.820 --> 01:49.990 to U.S. interests and our partners. 01:49.990 --> 01:52.640 Lastly, while the challenges in your areas 01:52.640 --> 01:54.290 of responsibility are on the rise, 01:54.290 --> 01:55.530 both of your commands have 01:55.530 --> 01:58.144 long suffered from resource shortfalls. 01:58.144 --> 02:00.949 We look forward to you to explain 02:00.949 --> 02:04.990 how these shortfalls increase risk to your forces 02:04.990 --> 02:06.565 and impact your ability 02:06.565 --> 02:10.060 to execute the National Defense Strategy. 02:10.060 --> 02:12.560 I wanna remind our members that Admiral Faller 02:12.560 --> 02:16.170 and General Waldhauser will be available at SVC-217 02:16.170 --> 02:20.410 immediately following the open hearing that we're in today 02:20.410 --> 02:24.830 to discuss any classified matters that may come up today. 02:24.830 --> 02:28.653 And with that, ranking member. 02:29.970 --> 02:31.730 - Thank you very much Senator Rounds, 02:31.730 --> 02:34.350 and let me join you in thanking our witnesses 02:34.350 --> 02:36.550 for appearing today to provide an update 02:36.550 --> 02:40.080 on our security situation in the U.S. military activities 02:40.080 --> 02:42.420 in your respected areas of responsibility. 02:42.420 --> 02:45.000 Both of you are lead in commands 02:45.000 --> 02:46.480 during very challenging times 02:46.480 --> 02:48.550 and we thank you for your continued service. 02:48.550 --> 02:50.960 And please also extend our gratitude 02:50.960 --> 02:52.901 to the men and women under your command 02:52.901 --> 02:56.030 for their outstanding service and dedication. 02:56.030 --> 02:57.410 And let me join Senator Rounds, 02:57.410 --> 02:58.880 General Waldhauser in thanking you 02:58.880 --> 02:59.890 for your distinguished service 02:59.890 --> 03:02.140 to the nation and the Marine Corps. 03:02.140 --> 03:03.900 I'm very concerned about the growing Chinese 03:03.900 --> 03:07.210 and Russian influence in both Latin America and Africa. 03:07.210 --> 03:09.660 China is leveraging a its economic might and influence 03:09.660 --> 03:13.407 to gain access to ports and loaning large sums of money 03:13.407 --> 03:15.018 for infrastructure projects, 03:15.018 --> 03:17.660 many of which are not economically viable 03:17.660 --> 03:21.040 and will leave these countries beholding to Beijing. 03:21.040 --> 03:24.140 Russia is engaging in massive disinformation campaigns 03:24.140 --> 03:26.396 to undermine U.S. influence and propping up 03:26.396 --> 03:29.400 authoritarian regimes in both regions. 03:29.400 --> 03:32.346 Both of you I task to counter Russian and Chinese influence 03:32.346 --> 03:36.170 with limited funds, equipment, and people, 03:36.170 --> 03:38.730 as many of the department's resources are being diverted 03:38.730 --> 03:42.640 to the INDOPACOM and EUCOM AORs. 03:42.640 --> 03:44.730 I would like to hear this implementation 03:44.730 --> 03:46.660 of the National Defense Strategy has affected 03:46.660 --> 03:49.050 the resources that you have to counter 03:49.050 --> 03:50.340 Russia and Chinese influence 03:50.340 --> 03:51.690 in these critical regions 03:51.690 --> 03:53.478 as well as any additional resources 03:53.478 --> 03:56.260 you might need for this vital task. 03:56.260 --> 03:58.550 In Africa, as in South and Central America, 03:58.550 --> 04:00.851 we are working with local and international partners 04:00.851 --> 04:03.739 to advance our shared security goals. 04:03.739 --> 04:06.453 However, the complex and often interlocking challenges 04:06.453 --> 04:10.890 to stability will not be solved by military means alone. 04:10.890 --> 04:12.680 Indeed, many significant issues, 04:12.680 --> 04:15.120 including rapid population growth, 04:15.120 --> 04:17.830 demographic changes, famine, and migration, 04:17.830 --> 04:21.600 are long-term and multidimensional in nature, 04:21.600 --> 04:23.810 and require whole-of-government policies 04:23.810 --> 04:25.750 that take an equally long-term view 04:25.750 --> 04:29.110 of investment and engagement in the region. 04:29.110 --> 04:31.300 In December, the administration announced 04:31.300 --> 04:32.996 a new U.S. strategy for africa 04:32.996 --> 04:34.750 that highlighted the importance 04:34.750 --> 04:37.420 of the region to U.S. economic interests 04:37.420 --> 04:38.650 and the growing competition 04:38.650 --> 04:41.180 with China and Russia throughout the continent. 04:41.180 --> 04:44.550 However, the administration has repeatedly submitted budgets 04:44.550 --> 04:46.490 that slashed critical aid dollars 04:46.490 --> 04:49.440 and reduced engagement across the AOR. 04:49.440 --> 04:51.300 General Waldhauser, I hope you will discuss 04:51.300 --> 04:53.927 the importance of long-term engagement in Africa 04:53.927 --> 04:56.811 and the types of investments we should be prioritizing 04:56.811 --> 04:58.650 to best position ourselves 04:58.650 --> 05:01.687 for strategic competition in the AOR. 05:01.687 --> 05:05.290 Admiral Faller, you also have a difficult problem set. 05:05.290 --> 05:08.340 Narco-trafficking has flooded Central and South America 05:08.340 --> 05:11.920 with illicit funds that exacerbate rampant corruption, 05:11.920 --> 05:13.950 especially among police forces. 05:13.950 --> 05:15.240 Poor economic conditions 05:15.240 --> 05:17.460 and a lack of citizen security has led 05:17.460 --> 05:20.010 to a humanitarian crisis that forces families 05:20.010 --> 05:23.000 to flee to look for better living conditions. 05:23.000 --> 05:25.360 Authoritarian governments, propped up with Russian 05:25.360 --> 05:27.780 and Chinese support are undermining democratic values 05:27.780 --> 05:30.050 and destabilizing the region. 05:30.050 --> 05:31.409 Despite all of these problems, 05:31.409 --> 05:34.070 I do want to note that there are some bright spots, 05:34.070 --> 05:36.300 we have several capable partners in the region, 05:36.300 --> 05:39.026 such as Colombia, Peru, and Argentina, 05:39.026 --> 05:40.930 who are willing to work with us, 05:40.930 --> 05:44.740 and are now net exporters of peace and security. 05:44.740 --> 05:48.850 On a final note, Venezuela is an unfolding crisis. 05:48.850 --> 05:50.130 I am hopeful that there will be 05:50.130 --> 05:53.530 a peaceful and democratic transition in Venezuela, 05:53.530 --> 05:55.550 led by the Venezuelan people, 05:55.550 --> 05:58.060 and supported by the international community. 05:58.060 --> 05:59.290 It has been terrible to watch 05:59.290 --> 06:01.080 the starvation of the Venezuelan people 06:01.080 --> 06:03.920 and the destruction of the Venezuelan economy 06:03.920 --> 06:06.580 by the Maduro and his regime. 06:06.580 --> 06:07.840 Current efforts to support 06:07.840 --> 06:10.480 interim president Juan Guaido are being led 06:10.480 --> 06:12.710 by the State Department and Treasury. 06:12.710 --> 06:15.010 Congress must be consulted if there is 06:15.010 --> 06:17.789 any military planning action beyond the current planning 06:17.789 --> 06:21.680 for the evacuation of U.S. citizens and embassy personnel. 06:21.680 --> 06:24.110 I know the events on the ground are changing day by day 06:24.110 --> 06:26.890 and it is impossible to tell what event 06:26.890 --> 06:29.020 or set of events will trigger Maduro's departure. 06:29.020 --> 06:31.840 I would like to hear any updates you might have 06:31.840 --> 06:33.940 and what you expect in the weeks to come. 06:33.940 --> 06:35.710 Again, thank you to our witnesses. 06:35.710 --> 06:37.590 Senator Rounds, thank you. 06:37.590 --> 06:39.082 - Thank you Senator Reed. 06:39.082 --> 06:42.090 General Waldhauser, would you care to begin 06:42.090 --> 06:42.923 with your opening statement 06:42.923 --> 06:45.840 and your full statement will be made a part of the record. 06:45.840 --> 06:48.482 - Thank you very much, Senator Rounds, appreciate it. 06:48.482 --> 06:51.776 Senator Rounds, Ranking Member Reed, 06:51.776 --> 06:54.410 distinguished members of the committee, 06:54.410 --> 06:56.870 thank you for the opportunity to update you 06:56.870 --> 07:00.730 on the efforts of United States Africa Command. 07:00.730 --> 07:03.207 I'm honored to be here this morning with Admiral Faller 07:03.207 --> 07:06.500 and discuss many of the similar challenges we face 07:06.500 --> 07:10.233 in both the AFRICOM and SOUTHCOM areas of responsibility. 07:11.130 --> 07:12.450 I would like to begin this morning 07:12.450 --> 07:14.760 by remembering the soldier we lost on the continent 07:14.760 --> 07:17.750 during operations in Somalia this past year. 07:17.750 --> 07:19.850 I offer my sincere condolences to the family 07:19.850 --> 07:23.700 of the Staff Sergeant Alexander Conrad, United States Army. 07:23.700 --> 07:27.580 We honor his commitment, service, dedication to duty, 07:27.580 --> 07:29.143 and dedication to our country. 07:30.480 --> 07:32.950 We also honor the sacrifice of our African partners 07:32.950 --> 07:34.300 who paid the ultimate price 07:34.300 --> 07:36.280 across the continent this year as well 07:36.280 --> 07:39.913 to bring security, stability, and prosperity to Africa. 07:40.990 --> 07:42.770 Additionally, this morning I would like to thank 07:42.770 --> 07:46.480 our families, service members, and civilian workforce, 07:46.480 --> 07:48.770 especially those who serve on the continent, 07:48.770 --> 07:51.020 often times in remote locations, 07:51.020 --> 07:53.340 for their professionalism and commitment 07:53.340 --> 07:55.063 to AFRICOM's mission. 07:56.870 --> 08:01.000 2019 marks the beginning of AFRICOM's second decade 08:01.000 --> 08:02.920 as a combatant command. 08:02.920 --> 08:04.510 As we enter this period, 08:04.510 --> 08:06.980 we have adapted our strategy for Africa 08:06.980 --> 08:09.950 based on updated national guidance which includes 08:09.950 --> 08:13.459 the president's 2017 National Security Strategy 08:13.459 --> 08:18.459 and the 2018 Secretary of Defense National Defense Strategy. 08:19.850 --> 08:23.009 These documents have shaped the focus of the armed services 08:23.009 --> 08:25.940 outlining broad guidance to enhance readiness 08:25.940 --> 08:28.290 for high end combat while instructing 08:28.290 --> 08:30.800 the combatant commands, among other things, 08:30.800 --> 08:33.923 to strengthen alliances and attract new partners. 08:34.980 --> 08:37.992 The recently released U.S. Strategy towards Africa, 08:37.992 --> 08:41.320 the Department of Defense Strategy for Africa, 08:41.320 --> 08:44.120 and the National Strategy for Counter Terrorism, 08:44.120 --> 08:46.650 refocused our whole of government approach 08:46.650 --> 08:49.160 in the year of great power competition 08:49.160 --> 08:51.440 to advance United States influence 08:51.440 --> 08:53.210 and maintain strategic access, 08:53.210 --> 08:55.593 not only in Africa but around the globe. 08:56.720 --> 09:00.410 Taken comprehensively, the overall U.S. strategic interests 09:00.410 --> 09:02.343 in Africa are very clear, 09:03.410 --> 09:05.480 prevent the undermining of our alliances 09:05.480 --> 09:08.800 or destabilization of African nations, 09:08.800 --> 09:11.293 counter violent extremist organizations, 09:11.293 --> 09:13.590 decrease the potential for Africa 09:13.590 --> 09:15.960 to become a failed continent, 09:15.960 --> 09:19.090 protect U.S. citizens and the homeland, 09:19.090 --> 09:21.050 and advance American influence, 09:21.050 --> 09:24.633 including economic opportunities and transactions. 09:25.800 --> 09:28.660 To underscore the strategy for disrupting extremists, 09:28.660 --> 09:30.860 we remain committed to synchronizing 09:30.860 --> 09:35.267 our kinetic authorities, persistent pressure on al-Shabaab, 09:35.267 --> 09:39.897 ISIS, and al-Qaeda associated groups remains necessary 09:39.897 --> 09:43.543 to prevent this destabilization of African nations. 09:44.890 --> 09:47.320 U.S. strategic interests on the continent 09:47.320 --> 09:49.330 cannot be solely advanced 09:49.330 --> 09:52.300 through the use of military force alone. 09:52.300 --> 09:56.400 As such, AFRICOM utilizes the military tool in concert 09:56.400 --> 09:59.260 with diplomacy and development efforts to help negate 09:59.260 --> 10:02.253 the drivers of conflict and create opportunity. 10:03.260 --> 10:06.070 In Somalia, we work closely with the ambassador, 10:06.070 --> 10:09.450 now permanently stationed in Mogadishu alongside 10:09.450 --> 10:12.040 with the USAID Mission Director, 10:12.040 --> 10:14.330 to help the Somalis assume responsibility 10:14.330 --> 10:17.113 for their own security and own prosperity. 10:18.270 --> 10:21.370 In Libya, our counterterrorism commitment supports 10:21.370 --> 10:23.840 the U.S. charge, who works closely 10:23.840 --> 10:26.851 with the international community to prevent civil conflict 10:26.851 --> 10:30.873 and facilitate the political reconciliation process. 10:32.200 --> 10:35.500 Additionally, our engagements, exercises, and activities 10:35.500 --> 10:38.678 throughout Africa are designed to increase U.S. influence, 10:38.678 --> 10:40.594 strengthen local security, 10:40.594 --> 10:45.594 and ensure our status as the preferred security partner. 10:45.780 --> 10:47.480 For example, in East Africa, 10:47.480 --> 10:51.590 our programs continue to modernize partner security forces 10:51.590 --> 10:55.030 as in Ethiopia, Kenya, and Uganda 10:55.030 --> 10:58.350 who also export security and contribute forces 10:58.350 --> 11:01.113 to the African Union Mission in Somalia. 11:02.240 --> 11:03.200 In North Africa, 11:03.200 --> 11:05.540 we have seen significant return on investment 11:05.540 --> 11:08.940 with Tunisia and Morocco demonstrating the capacity 11:08.940 --> 11:11.480 to absorb advanced U.S. programs 11:11.480 --> 11:15.573 and to lead security-related exercises and operations. 11:16.720 --> 11:19.473 In the western Sahel and Lake Chad region, 11:19.473 --> 11:22.690 AFRICON provides training, advice, and assistance 11:22.690 --> 11:24.860 to the Western African nations 11:24.860 --> 11:27.053 which make up the G5 Sahel Organization, 11:28.030 --> 11:29.450 as well as those who make up 11:29.450 --> 11:32.530 the Multinational Joint Task Force working 11:32.530 --> 11:34.380 to contain violent extremism 11:34.380 --> 11:37.853 and secure the borders of the Lake Chad basin countries. 11:38.810 --> 11:42.720 Our partnered networks and influence ensures U.S. access 11:42.720 --> 11:45.060 for U.S. forces in times of crisis 11:45.060 --> 11:48.372 to protect our personnel and facilities on the continent, 11:48.372 --> 11:50.380 such as in Djibouti, 11:50.380 --> 11:52.826 a location which has strategic significance 11:52.826 --> 11:55.393 to multiple combatant commands. 11:56.690 --> 11:58.720 In conclusion, the most important use 11:58.720 --> 12:01.590 of the military tool on the African continent is 12:01.590 --> 12:04.972 where our engagements emphasize relationships 12:04.972 --> 12:07.210 and capacity building. 12:07.210 --> 12:08.934 And I'm proud to lead a team of professionals 12:08.934 --> 12:12.160 who have built a strong and trusting relationships 12:12.160 --> 12:13.910 with our African partners, 12:13.910 --> 12:17.010 U.S. interagency and the international community 12:17.010 --> 12:21.330 to foster security, stability, and prosperity in Africa. 12:21.330 --> 12:24.260 On behalf of the servicemembers, the civilian employees, 12:24.260 --> 12:27.420 and families of the United States Africa Command, 12:27.420 --> 12:28.497 thank you for your support, 12:28.497 --> 12:30.560 and thank you for the opportunity 12:30.560 --> 12:32.320 to be with you here this morning. 12:32.320 --> 12:33.840 I look forward to your questions. 12:33.840 --> 12:36.190 - Thank you Senator Waldhauser, Senator Faller. 12:38.760 --> 12:41.100 - Chairman Inhofe, Ranking Member Reed, 12:41.100 --> 12:42.790 Thank you for the opportunity to testify 12:42.790 --> 12:46.150 before you today with my shipmate General Waldhauser. 12:46.150 --> 12:47.960 And thank you for the steadfast support 12:47.960 --> 12:50.680 you provide our men and women every day. 12:50.680 --> 12:52.660 I'm joined today by my wife Martha 12:52.660 --> 12:53.930 who's passionately committed 12:53.930 --> 12:55.448 to serving our military families 12:55.448 --> 12:58.210 and ensuring their readiness and welfare. 12:58.210 --> 12:59.690 Also with me are SOUTHCOM's 12:59.690 --> 13:01.830 Command Sergeant Major Bryan Zickefoose, 13:01.830 --> 13:05.420 my eyes and ears, representing the backbone of our military, 13:05.420 --> 13:07.160 our noncommissioned officers. 13:07.160 --> 13:09.020 And Master Chief Stacie U'Ren, 13:09.020 --> 13:11.220 our dedicated gender advisor. 13:11.220 --> 13:13.900 Sergeant major, master chief, and our human rights team 13:13.900 --> 13:16.440 work together to build professionalism both 13:16.440 --> 13:20.080 within our SOUTHCOM team and with our partners. 13:20.080 --> 13:22.040 Professional forces have legitimacy 13:22.040 --> 13:24.680 within their ranks and their populations. 13:24.680 --> 13:26.873 Professional ready forces build trust. 13:28.133 --> 13:30.360 Western Hemisphere is our shared home, 13:30.360 --> 13:31.500 it's our neighborhood. 13:31.500 --> 13:33.217 We're connected to the nations in Latin America 13:33.217 --> 13:36.320 and the Caribbean by history, culture, and geography. 13:36.320 --> 13:37.880 My headquarters in Doral, Florida, 13:37.880 --> 13:39.513 it takes me longer to travel to D.C. 13:39.513 --> 13:41.640 than it does to many of the countries 13:41.640 --> 13:43.670 in our area of responsibility. 13:43.670 --> 13:46.421 We're connected in every domain, sea, air, space, 13:46.421 --> 13:48.860 and cyber and land. 13:48.860 --> 13:52.190 Our security and prosperity are inextricably linked. 13:52.190 --> 13:54.660 When our neighbors succeed, we succeed. 13:54.660 --> 13:57.430 And when our neighbors threatened, we are threatened. 13:57.430 --> 13:59.610 Our partnerships in this region are critical 13:59.610 --> 14:01.930 to the layered defense of our homeland 14:01.930 --> 14:03.550 and to our collective ability to meet 14:03.550 --> 14:05.650 complex global challenges. 14:05.650 --> 14:08.363 Ultimately, we want enemies to fear us, 14:08.363 --> 14:10.620 friends to partner with us, 14:10.620 --> 14:12.260 and the Western Hemisphere to shine 14:12.260 --> 14:15.980 as a beacon of peace, prosperity, and potential. 14:15.980 --> 14:17.579 To ensure the security of the homeland, 14:17.579 --> 14:20.690 SOUTHCOM works closely with interagency teammates, 14:20.690 --> 14:22.670 the Department of State, USID, 14:22.670 --> 14:24.530 Department of Homeland Security, 14:24.530 --> 14:26.320 and the Department of Justice. 14:26.320 --> 14:28.010 Teamwork within the Defense Department, 14:28.010 --> 14:30.960 especially with Northern Command and the U.S. Coast Guard is 14:30.960 --> 14:33.411 also critical to mission accomplishment. 14:33.411 --> 14:35.283 Over the past two months, 14:35.283 --> 14:38.190 I've traveled to Columbia, Trinidad and Tobago, 14:38.190 --> 14:40.360 Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador 14:40.360 --> 14:43.600 to get a first-hand view of the opportunities and challenges 14:43.600 --> 14:46.720 that directly impact the security of this hemisphere. 14:46.720 --> 14:49.215 Criminal organizations, narco-traffickers, 14:49.215 --> 14:52.100 illegal immigration, violent extremists, 14:52.100 --> 14:54.350 corruption, and weak governments are principle 14:54.350 --> 14:56.180 among those challenges. 14:56.180 --> 14:57.720 The most disturbing insight, however, 14:57.720 --> 15:00.012 has been the degree to which external state actors 15:00.012 --> 15:02.890 especially Russia, China, and Iran, 15:02.890 --> 15:06.350 are expanding their influence in the Western Hemisphere. 15:06.350 --> 15:07.919 Russia, in particular, enables actions 15:07.919 --> 15:10.370 in Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Cuba, 15:10.370 --> 15:13.600 that threaten hemisphere security and prosperity. 15:13.600 --> 15:16.060 And as a leading state sponsor of terrorism in the world, 15:16.060 --> 15:19.253 Iran's activities in this hemisphere are concerning. 15:20.410 --> 15:24.640 Venezuela, the situation in Venezuela is dire. 15:24.640 --> 15:27.490 Maduro's illegitimate government starves its people 15:27.490 --> 15:29.340 by using food as a weapon 15:29.340 --> 15:31.608 while corrupt generals are awarded with money 15:31.608 --> 15:35.230 from illegal drug trafficking, oil profits, and businesses, 15:35.230 --> 15:38.336 all at the expense of the population and other, 15:38.336 --> 15:40.800 and the rank and file military. 15:40.800 --> 15:43.894 Migration out of Venezuela is now over 300 million, 15:43.894 --> 15:45.760 creating a crisis for our friends 15:45.760 --> 15:48.103 in Columbia, Brazil, Ecuador, and Peru. 15:49.120 --> 15:50.680 While Russia and Cuba and China 15:50.680 --> 15:52.730 prop up the Maduro dictatorship, 15:52.730 --> 15:54.909 the remainder of the world is united. 15:54.909 --> 15:57.724 SOUTHCOM is supporting diplomatic efforts, 15:57.724 --> 16:00.370 and we are prepared to protect U.S. personnel 16:00.370 --> 16:02.763 and diplomatic facilities, if necessary. 16:04.150 --> 16:06.960 I saw first-hand the impacts of this humanitarian crisis 16:06.960 --> 16:08.290 in Venezuela when I visited 16:08.290 --> 16:10.710 the United States naval ship Comfort. 16:10.710 --> 16:12.690 The solidarity and compassion displayed 16:12.690 --> 16:14.805 by the Comfort's international medical team 16:14.805 --> 16:18.470 made a lasting difference in the lives of thousands. 16:18.470 --> 16:20.610 The United States of America provided Comfort 16:20.610 --> 16:23.490 as part of our enduring promise to the hemisphere 16:23.490 --> 16:27.110 while Russia flew nuclear-capable bombers. 16:27.110 --> 16:28.780 Who would you want as your friend? 16:28.780 --> 16:30.580 And who would you trust? 16:30.580 --> 16:31.940 Building strong partnerships is 16:31.940 --> 16:33.390 the best way to counter threats 16:33.390 --> 16:34.730 and turn the challenges 16:34.730 --> 16:36.790 of our hemisphere into opportunities. 16:36.790 --> 16:39.680 In this hemisphere, our neighborhood, 16:39.680 --> 16:41.150 a little goes a long way. 16:41.150 --> 16:42.700 We need the right, focused, 16:42.700 --> 16:46.250 consistent military education and presence. 16:46.250 --> 16:48.030 We cannot achieve positive results 16:48.030 --> 16:51.410 and influence SOUTHCOMs without being on the playing field. 16:51.410 --> 16:53.070 Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Reed, 16:53.070 --> 16:56.100 thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. 16:56.100 --> 16:58.780 SOUTHCOM team, our civilians, military members, 16:58.780 --> 17:00.440 and our families appreciate 17:00.440 --> 17:02.720 the support Congress has provided us. 17:02.720 --> 17:04.447 We will continue to honor the trust you 17:04.447 --> 17:07.250 and our fellow citizens have placed in us. 17:07.250 --> 17:09.280 I look forward to your questions. 17:09.280 --> 17:10.300 - All right, thank you very much. 17:10.300 --> 17:13.010 First of all, let me apologize for being late. 17:13.010 --> 17:14.670 I had a very small part to play 17:14.670 --> 17:15.920 in the National Prayer Breakfast, 17:15.920 --> 17:18.636 so I had to choose Jesus over you guys. 17:18.636 --> 17:19.469 (group laughs) 17:19.469 --> 17:20.820 But that's behind us now. 17:20.820 --> 17:22.913 So we're ready to get back to work. 17:24.130 --> 17:25.530 First of all, let me just go ahead, 17:25.530 --> 17:30.046 and with the areas you're working so hard in, 17:30.046 --> 17:33.050 I've been concerned about China for a long time 17:33.050 --> 17:34.300 because we saw it coming. 17:35.200 --> 17:37.570 In fact, in Djibouti that was the first time, 17:37.570 --> 17:39.100 as my information anyway, 17:39.100 --> 17:41.530 that in Djibouti's the first time that China 17:41.530 --> 17:45.380 actually did devote its attention 17:45.380 --> 17:49.670 to actually starting a function 17:49.670 --> 17:51.553 in a country outside of city limits, 17:51.553 --> 17:52.690 and that happened Djibouti. 17:52.690 --> 17:57.690 Now, they're as far south in Africa as Tanzania. 17:58.020 --> 17:59.318 They're making things happen. 17:59.318 --> 18:01.552 Everywhere you go, the same thing, 18:01.552 --> 18:04.610 America tells us what we need, 18:04.610 --> 18:07.740 and we, China, gives them what they need. 18:07.740 --> 18:09.389 And they have also, you know, 18:09.389 --> 18:12.160 we're all committed to the IMET program. 18:12.160 --> 18:13.690 They actually in China, 18:13.690 --> 18:16.113 as you and I discussed in my office, 18:18.663 --> 18:21.600 for the first time, they've invited 50, 18:22.470 --> 18:26.655 50 of the leaders showed up in China, in Beijing, 18:26.655 --> 18:30.360 out of 52 nations talking about how much, 18:30.360 --> 18:32.020 how close they want to be with them 18:32.020 --> 18:33.580 and trying, what they are trying to do is 18:33.580 --> 18:35.113 expand the IMET program 18:35.113 --> 18:40.113 that we've been so successful in, into China. 18:41.080 --> 18:44.160 So anyway, that's something that is there, 18:44.160 --> 18:46.350 and I'm sure you're feeling some of the effects of that. 18:46.350 --> 18:49.873 I'd ask both of you, 'cause it's happening also in SOUTHCOM, 18:50.950 --> 18:52.850 what kind of, what are the effects right now 18:52.850 --> 18:54.930 that you're seeing from China 18:54.930 --> 18:58.850 that weren't there until recently? 18:58.850 --> 19:01.267 Starting with you, go ahead, General. 19:03.290 --> 19:04.690 - Thank you Senator Inhofe. 19:04.690 --> 19:06.080 You know, it's interesting about Djibouti, 19:06.080 --> 19:08.398 it is the first overseas base that China has developed. 19:08.398 --> 19:09.703 - Yeah, the first one. 19:09.703 --> 19:11.130 Now people are not aware of that, 19:11.130 --> 19:13.670 that this is the first base that they've established 19:13.670 --> 19:15.550 outside of their city limits. 19:15.550 --> 19:16.383 - That's correct. 19:16.383 --> 19:18.240 And you know, it puts us in a very unique position 19:18.240 --> 19:20.516 because we have a Chinese base roughly several miles 19:20.516 --> 19:23.520 from the front gate of our location in Djibouti. 19:23.520 --> 19:26.830 So we have some interesting engagements 19:26.830 --> 19:30.630 with safety flight, weapons training on the range, 19:30.630 --> 19:31.463 and so forth. 19:31.463 --> 19:32.780 So we have a requirement to work with them, 19:32.780 --> 19:34.850 to work through some of those issues. 19:34.850 --> 19:36.930 But that said, overall in the continent, 19:36.930 --> 19:38.810 China has been there quite some time. 19:38.810 --> 19:41.230 And they have worked this relationship. 19:41.230 --> 19:44.660 What we try to do from the AFRICOM or DOD perspective 19:44.660 --> 19:47.310 is try to show that we are the best partner, 19:47.310 --> 19:48.950 the type of training we give them, 19:48.950 --> 19:50.450 the weapons perhaps that are sold 19:50.450 --> 19:52.220 by the United States of high quality 19:52.220 --> 19:54.470 and try to make sure our influence remains. 19:54.470 --> 19:56.010 It's a difficult task. 19:56.010 --> 19:57.300 You mentioned the issue of all 19:57.300 --> 20:00.470 the security chiefs into Beijing. 20:00.470 --> 20:01.370 You know, as an anecdote, 20:01.370 --> 20:02.530 I have no way to prove this, 20:02.530 --> 20:04.096 but in April of 2017, 20:04.096 --> 20:07.160 we in AFRICOM invited all the chiefs of defense 20:07.160 --> 20:08.890 to Stuttgart for a conference. 20:08.890 --> 20:11.720 We had about 40 or so turn up. 20:11.720 --> 20:13.370 I believe the Chinese read our play book, 20:13.370 --> 20:15.740 and I believe after that particular engagement, 20:15.740 --> 20:17.760 they saw it, and they wanted to make sure 20:17.760 --> 20:20.730 that they were on the same level playing field as we were. 20:20.730 --> 20:21.720 But moreover, I would say, 20:21.720 --> 20:23.360 that in addition to the Chinese defense, 20:23.360 --> 20:27.230 or the defense group, in September of this year, 20:27.230 --> 20:29.230 China had the forum for cooperation 20:29.230 --> 20:30.850 between China and Africa, 20:30.850 --> 20:32.980 where over 50 of the heads of state 20:32.980 --> 20:34.710 of Africa went to Beijing. 20:34.710 --> 20:38.820 And where President Xi rolled out $60 billion or so 20:38.820 --> 20:40.980 of loans and grants and programs. 20:40.980 --> 20:43.140 So the Chinese work at the relationship, 20:43.140 --> 20:44.210 and that's one of the things 20:44.210 --> 20:45.760 that we try to combat in AFRICOM 20:45.760 --> 20:47.130 by just being good partners. 20:47.130 --> 20:50.355 - Yeah, it's been my experience in the continent 20:50.355 --> 20:52.970 that China never comes in unless there's something 20:52.970 --> 20:53.830 they can gain from it. 20:53.830 --> 20:54.973 And of course, they use their own labor and they, 20:54.973 --> 20:57.810 they're not doing that much of a benefit. 20:57.810 --> 21:00.007 But nonetheless, they have resources 21:00.007 --> 21:02.020 and I can't figure out where it all comes from, 21:02.020 --> 21:04.397 but much more than we seem to. 21:04.397 --> 21:05.530 And the same thing, 21:05.530 --> 21:07.700 you don't hear so much in SOUTHCOM 21:07.700 --> 21:09.130 about the activity of China. 21:09.130 --> 21:12.430 Just real briefly, just what are your thoughts on that? 21:12.430 --> 21:16.030 - Senator, in SOUTHCOM, they're invested in over 56 ports. 21:16.030 --> 21:18.053 I recently returned from a trip to Central America 21:18.053 --> 21:19.420 and my small team, 21:19.420 --> 21:22.660 the entire hotel floor right below ours 21:22.660 --> 21:24.603 was completely booked by Chinese. 21:24.603 --> 21:28.030 They are offering schools, all expense paid, 21:28.030 --> 21:31.530 13 days for a half-day school, no strings attached, 21:31.530 --> 21:34.610 and cash for the countries to do what they want. 21:34.610 --> 21:37.340 Again, our, so they're there, and they're there in force 21:37.340 --> 21:38.580 and they have a long-term vision 21:38.580 --> 21:40.890 economically and militarily. 21:40.890 --> 21:43.890 Our best counter is education and being there. 21:43.890 --> 21:46.900 The IMET program is huge for our partners. 21:46.900 --> 21:48.240 They want to come to the United States, 21:48.240 --> 21:50.250 they want to go to our schools. 21:50.250 --> 21:52.380 Our schools remain the world's best 21:52.380 --> 21:53.740 and it's something to emulate. 21:53.740 --> 21:55.740 - Yeah, this is my own opinion, 21:55.740 --> 21:58.480 but I think some here agrees with us. 21:58.480 --> 22:00.380 Of all the COMs that we have, 22:00.380 --> 22:03.600 AFRICOM and SOUTHCOM are the two that are 22:03.600 --> 22:05.680 the most under resourced, 22:05.680 --> 22:07.300 and I'd like to have you be very blunt 22:07.300 --> 22:10.980 on just very briefly do you agree with that, 22:10.980 --> 22:13.713 and what do we need to do to correct it? 22:15.330 --> 22:17.760 - Senator Inhofe, I do agree that we're under resourced. 22:17.760 --> 22:20.250 However, we do make the most and the best of what we have. 22:20.250 --> 22:21.083 - [Jim] I know that. 22:21.083 --> 22:23.241 - Certainly with reconnaissance assets, 22:23.241 --> 22:25.520 ISR assets, medevac assets, 22:25.520 --> 22:30.030 and also non-episodic but where we could count on-- 22:30.030 --> 22:31.390 - Of those you just named, 22:31.390 --> 22:34.953 which are the least resourced right now, ISR-- 22:36.340 --> 22:38.400 - As any COCOM would say here, 22:38.400 --> 22:41.480 we would prefer more ISR for our counter VEO fight. 22:41.480 --> 22:44.120 - Yeah, yeah, do you agree with that, admiral? 22:44.120 --> 22:44.953 - I would agree with that. 22:44.953 --> 22:47.410 We could also use some naval assets as well, 22:47.410 --> 22:49.970 Senator, I know our Navy needs a bigger Navy, 22:49.970 --> 22:50.900 we need some of that. 22:50.900 --> 22:52.470 - I understand, you've done great work. 22:52.470 --> 22:53.303 Senator Reed. 22:54.340 --> 22:55.620 - Well, thank you very much Mr. Chairman. 22:55.620 --> 22:57.870 Again, gentlemen, thank you for your service. 22:58.880 --> 23:01.093 Admiral Faller, with respect to Venezuela, 23:02.810 --> 23:05.360 your views would be very much appreciated, 23:05.360 --> 23:09.130 but there's a presumption that the military at this point is 23:09.130 --> 23:12.450 the key sort of power base for Maduro, 23:12.450 --> 23:15.240 and that as long as they stay with him, 23:15.240 --> 23:19.230 he will be incentivized to stay in Venezuela. 23:19.230 --> 23:21.037 Is that accurate from your perspective, 23:21.037 --> 23:22.533 and what are we doing to try, 23:22.533 --> 23:27.403 what are the Venezuelans, the legitimate president, 23:27.403 --> 23:31.163 what is he trying to do to pull the military away? 23:32.550 --> 23:35.580 - Senator, Venezuela has about 2,000 generals, 23:35.580 --> 23:37.570 more than all of NATO combined, 23:37.570 --> 23:41.070 and the majority of them are on the payroll of Maduro 23:41.070 --> 23:44.520 via illicit drug trafficking and corrupt businesses, 23:44.520 --> 23:45.760 and that's what he's using 23:45.760 --> 23:47.840 to buy their loyalty and their protection. 23:47.840 --> 23:51.480 In addition, Cuba, as I mentioned in my opening statement, 23:51.480 --> 23:55.300 pretty much owns the security around Maduro 23:55.300 --> 23:57.887 and is deeply entrenched in the intelligence service. 23:57.887 --> 24:00.620 And we can go into more detail in closed session. 24:00.620 --> 24:03.520 And so that remains a center of gravity for Maduro. 24:03.520 --> 24:05.080 The legitimate government 24:05.080 --> 24:07.122 of President Guaido has offered amnesty 24:07.122 --> 24:10.160 and a place for the military forces, 24:10.160 --> 24:14.080 most of which we think would be loyal to the constitution, 24:14.080 --> 24:15.923 not to a dictator, a place to go 24:15.923 --> 24:20.120 and I think that the diplomacy path is that path 24:20.120 --> 24:22.610 that we're trying to support. 24:22.610 --> 24:25.080 - Thank you, over many, many years now, 24:25.080 --> 24:29.870 I've had complaints about the human rights abuses 24:29.870 --> 24:32.950 in Central America, Honduras, and Guatemala particularly. 24:32.950 --> 24:36.282 In fact, there's a report recently that provided 24:36.282 --> 24:39.750 by the Sisters of Mercy that a former member 24:39.750 --> 24:41.520 of the Honduran Congress has been imprisoned 24:41.520 --> 24:45.900 for in a press conference suggesting 24:45.900 --> 24:49.530 who might have involved in the killing of Berta Caceres, 24:49.530 --> 24:51.990 who was a prominent environmentalist in Honduras. 24:51.990 --> 24:54.180 And this is one example, 24:54.180 --> 24:56.423 so how are we conditioning our security assistance 24:56.423 --> 24:59.310 and are human rights training in these countries 24:59.310 --> 25:01.693 to promote the rule of law? 25:02.920 --> 25:04.300 - During my recent trip, senator, 25:04.300 --> 25:07.920 I emphasized professionalism as the key 25:07.920 --> 25:10.633 to being the legitimate force in professionalism. 25:10.633 --> 25:12.860 A big part of that is human rights 25:12.860 --> 25:14.460 and it's like blood running through your veins. 25:14.460 --> 25:15.940 If you're not legitimate to your people, 25:15.940 --> 25:17.101 you're not gonna have a force 25:17.101 --> 25:21.400 that is going to ultimately secure that population. 25:21.400 --> 25:22.500 We had those discussions 25:22.500 --> 25:25.870 with all the leaders of those countries, 25:25.870 --> 25:27.080 the chiefs of their defense, 25:27.080 --> 25:29.130 and we have a human rights team that goes in there 25:29.130 --> 25:31.440 and performs workshops. 25:31.440 --> 25:33.860 Part of the steps that must be taken 25:33.860 --> 25:35.860 by the embassy and our country teams 25:35.860 --> 25:37.750 to certify the deliverance of those aides 25:37.750 --> 25:39.948 includes a certification that they're gonna go 25:39.948 --> 25:42.900 to vetted forces and forces that have complied. 25:42.900 --> 25:44.460 So we're looking at that every day, Senator. 25:44.460 --> 25:46.160 It's very important to our efforts. 25:46.160 --> 25:48.070 - Let me turn to General Waldhauser. 25:48.070 --> 25:52.950 But there's a, I think an issue 25:52.950 --> 25:55.140 that both of your AORs share. 25:55.140 --> 25:56.760 It's under-resourcing, 25:56.760 --> 26:01.760 both military but also on the civilian side, 26:01.797 --> 26:04.610 the AID, the State Department, et cetera. 26:04.610 --> 26:06.440 And when you talk about capacity building, 26:06.440 --> 26:10.560 both of you are very eloquent and very focused, 26:10.560 --> 26:13.960 but I've traveled through AFRICOM, as you know. 26:13.960 --> 26:16.780 General Waldhauser, you were hosting my return. 26:16.780 --> 26:19.770 In Somalia and one of the reasons al-Shabaab is 26:19.770 --> 26:24.730 so influential is that they're able to collect taxes, 26:24.730 --> 26:28.740 administer justice, provide basic public services, 26:28.740 --> 26:31.130 the civilian capacity. 26:31.130 --> 26:33.090 And so, the question here now is that, you know, 26:33.090 --> 26:35.360 even with all the military effort we put in, 26:35.360 --> 26:38.336 if we don't have the civilian capacity component, 26:38.336 --> 26:40.790 I don't think your mission's gonna succeed. 26:40.790 --> 26:43.410 So, you can start, you have a similar problem 26:43.410 --> 26:45.690 I think in South America also. 26:45.690 --> 26:46.530 - Senator, thank you. 26:46.530 --> 26:48.113 To just provide some context, you know, 26:48.113 --> 26:51.350 today, since the first time since 1991, 26:51.350 --> 26:53.500 we have a USAID Mission Director 26:53.500 --> 26:55.191 in Mogadishu with the ambassador. 26:55.191 --> 26:57.380 Now, this is a very important step 26:57.380 --> 27:00.400 because in December of 2017, 27:00.400 --> 27:03.850 USAID signed a over $300 million compact 27:03.850 --> 27:04.900 with the country of Djibouti. 27:04.900 --> 27:06.490 This is very significant. 27:06.490 --> 27:09.190 There are issues of education, agriculture, 27:09.190 --> 27:10.880 government business, and so forth. 27:10.880 --> 27:11.920 And so, it's very important now 27:11.920 --> 27:14.464 that we have an ambassador in the country alongside 27:14.464 --> 27:17.700 with a senior USAID rep who can oversee 27:17.700 --> 27:19.880 and synchronize those development efforts 27:19.880 --> 27:21.660 and make sure that the return on investment 27:21.660 --> 27:24.113 of that $300 million is well spent. 27:25.470 --> 27:29.280 - But, that is a good example of how it's working, 27:29.280 --> 27:30.980 but there are many more examples 27:30.980 --> 27:32.670 where we don't have the resources. 27:32.670 --> 27:34.123 We don't have ambassadors. 27:35.100 --> 27:38.380 The ambassador in Mogadishu arrived, what, 27:38.380 --> 27:40.623 a few months ago finally after years? 27:41.460 --> 27:44.160 So, I mean there's this complementary 27:44.160 --> 27:47.450 civilian capacity issue that if we don't get right, 27:47.450 --> 27:51.850 you can do your job very well, and we will not succeed. 27:51.850 --> 27:53.740 So, Admiral Faller, your points, 27:53.740 --> 27:55.237 because there are many of the same situations 27:55.237 --> 27:57.333 in South America and Latin America. 27:58.200 --> 27:59.596 - Exactly the same situation. 27:59.596 --> 28:01.870 The military needs to be the small M 28:01.870 --> 28:05.890 in support of the big diplomacy and the big economic E. 28:05.890 --> 28:07.650 And I see that, where it's working. 28:07.650 --> 28:09.250 An example would be in El Salvador. 28:09.250 --> 28:11.630 We've made some significant progress 28:11.630 --> 28:16.081 in the reduction of violence and this has been by targeting 28:16.081 --> 28:18.980 in really bad neighborhoods some 50 locations 28:18.980 --> 28:23.560 where USAID comes in with public and private partnerships 28:23.560 --> 28:25.020 and partnership with the government. 28:25.020 --> 28:26.550 And we're there in small presence 28:26.550 --> 28:29.603 to connect those vetted police force with the military. 28:30.500 --> 28:31.333 - [Jack] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 28:31.333 --> 28:33.280 Thank you, gentlemen. 28:33.280 --> 28:34.480 - I think we're all aware 28:34.480 --> 28:36.530 that we're gonna have a closed session after this. 28:36.530 --> 28:38.380 So anything that gets into an area 28:38.380 --> 28:39.804 that's more appropriate in a closed session, 28:39.804 --> 28:41.590 you can pass that on to that when. 28:41.590 --> 28:43.140 Senator Rounds. 28:43.140 --> 28:44.440 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 28:46.300 --> 28:48.623 General Waldhauser, I'm just curious. 28:50.530 --> 28:54.020 In your opening statement for the record regarding Djibouti, 28:54.020 --> 28:56.320 you note that our continued access 28:56.320 --> 29:00.200 and the ability to use an unimpeded basis, 29:00.200 --> 29:02.980 the Doraleh Container Port is critical 29:02.980 --> 29:07.980 to our logistical efforts in and around East Africa. 29:08.530 --> 29:11.991 Given China's increased presence within the port complex, 29:11.991 --> 29:15.410 do you have any concerns that our access and usage could be 29:15.410 --> 29:18.060 at risk short or long term? 29:18.060 --> 29:18.893 - Senator Rounds, thank you. 29:18.893 --> 29:21.030 You know, last year at this time when I testified, 29:21.030 --> 29:24.610 Djibouti had just taken that port over from the UAE. 29:24.610 --> 29:25.840 There's been some international 29:25.840 --> 29:27.550 court issues of adjudication. 29:27.550 --> 29:29.140 I won't get into that today, 29:29.140 --> 29:32.940 but the Djiboutians have run that port now for over a year. 29:32.940 --> 29:35.420 Based on data that we get from the embassy, 29:35.420 --> 29:37.060 the Djiboutians have, quite frankly, 29:37.060 --> 29:38.800 done a better job, been more efficient, 29:38.800 --> 29:40.810 and have had better throughput 29:40.810 --> 29:43.550 than when the Emirates ran the port. 29:43.550 --> 29:46.277 I have spent time directly with President Guelleh, 29:46.277 --> 29:49.070 talked with him, and with our ambassador there, 29:49.070 --> 29:50.970 and spoke with him about our concern 29:50.970 --> 29:53.620 that we need unimpeded access 'cause it's no secret 29:53.620 --> 29:57.430 that roughly 98% of the logistics support for Djibouti, 29:57.430 --> 30:00.860 as well as Somalia and East Africa, come through that port. 30:00.860 --> 30:03.350 That port is one of five entities 30:03.350 --> 30:05.200 in the overall Djiboutian port. 30:05.200 --> 30:08.950 And so, our access there is necessary and required. 30:08.950 --> 30:10.460 We have the word from President Guelleh 30:10.460 --> 30:13.274 that we will always have access there. 30:13.274 --> 30:17.370 And they have no intention of selling out to China. 30:17.370 --> 30:18.300 Those are his words, 30:18.300 --> 30:20.630 and his actions thus far have backed that up. 30:20.630 --> 30:22.450 So, I have no reason not to believe that. 30:22.450 --> 30:23.940 But, the bottom line is 30:23.940 --> 30:26.100 I still remain concerned about our access there 30:26.100 --> 30:28.870 because if we were denied access or had limited access, 30:28.870 --> 30:30.320 it would have a significant impact 30:30.320 --> 30:32.180 on our activities in East Africa. 30:32.180 --> 30:33.780 - Thank you, also curious, 30:33.780 --> 30:35.880 I wanna just change subjects a little bit. 30:37.661 --> 30:39.180 You had made a comment on your statement 30:39.180 --> 30:41.870 for the record pertaining to Algeria. 30:41.870 --> 30:44.310 You note that U.S. relations with Algeria continue 30:44.310 --> 30:47.520 to foster cooperation and further regional stability. 30:47.520 --> 30:49.900 Can you give us some examples of what AFRICOM can do 30:49.900 --> 30:52.840 to foster the U.S.-Algerian security relationship? 30:52.840 --> 30:54.820 And I just want your thoughts also 30:54.820 --> 30:56.680 with regard to the security implications 30:56.680 --> 30:59.752 of the Tindouf refugee camps through Algeria. 30:59.752 --> 31:03.020 That refugee camp has been there for 40 years, 31:03.020 --> 31:06.293 and there clearly is an issue there that we, 31:07.640 --> 31:11.193 I've been there once, and I plan on being there again. 31:12.370 --> 31:16.230 I'm just curious, what's your thoughts about that situation? 31:16.230 --> 31:19.500 How big of an issue is that for security, for Algeria, 31:19.500 --> 31:22.560 who clearly is allowing these folks to be there? 31:22.560 --> 31:25.170 And they're providing humanitarian aid at this time, 31:25.170 --> 31:26.430 and I'm presuming that we're offering 31:26.430 --> 31:28.430 some assistance there as well. 31:28.430 --> 31:30.280 - So, let me start by talking a little bit 31:30.280 --> 31:32.030 about our relationship with Algeria. 31:32.030 --> 31:33.130 And first of all, I would say 31:33.130 --> 31:35.590 that the Russians' weapons sales on the continent, 31:35.590 --> 31:37.900 that's one of their number one customers. 31:37.900 --> 31:40.620 They sell high-end weapons to them, 31:40.620 --> 31:42.770 ships, submarines, that type of thing. 31:42.770 --> 31:45.280 So, the Russians who sell the majority 31:45.280 --> 31:47.140 of equipment on the continent, 31:47.140 --> 31:49.710 Algeria remains a big partner of theirs. 31:49.710 --> 31:52.650 That said, I've personally visited Algeria 31:52.650 --> 31:54.310 and met with senior officials there. 31:54.310 --> 31:57.160 And the AFRICOM relationship is one that is really 31:57.160 --> 31:59.057 in a crawl, walk, run stage. 31:59.057 --> 32:01.490 We have limited engagements, 32:01.490 --> 32:04.820 but we work some issues with equipment and repairs. 32:04.820 --> 32:06.150 We have visits periodically. 32:06.150 --> 32:09.780 We've participated in some of these D-Day activities 32:09.780 --> 32:10.613 and so forth. 32:10.613 --> 32:13.370 So, although it's an arms-length relationship, 32:13.370 --> 32:15.523 we do all we can to continue to foster. 32:16.410 --> 32:18.220 Now, with regards to the refugee camps, 32:18.220 --> 32:19.520 you know, on the continent, 32:19.520 --> 32:23.180 12.3 million internally displaced people are 32:23.180 --> 32:24.940 all over the continent. 32:24.940 --> 32:27.030 This has a lot to do with conflict. 32:27.030 --> 32:31.800 It has a lot to do with famine, drought, and the like. 32:31.800 --> 32:36.100 And all these particular camps require a lot of care 32:36.100 --> 32:38.630 and the ability for our NGOs, 32:38.630 --> 32:41.530 our nongovernmental organizations, to work there freely. 32:41.530 --> 32:43.710 This has been a significant issue over the last few years 32:43.710 --> 32:45.650 because really some of the terrorists groups 32:45.650 --> 32:47.470 don't adhere to the rules of war 32:47.470 --> 32:50.230 or the laws of war with regards to NGOs. 32:50.230 --> 32:55.230 So, these camps, they perpetuate all over the continent, 32:55.627 --> 32:59.760 the one in Algeria, though, I'm not directly familiar with. 32:59.760 --> 33:02.130 - Okay, well, I understand that it has to do 33:02.130 --> 33:05.940 with relationships between Algeria and Morocco. 33:05.940 --> 33:07.460 Challenges for the group of people 33:07.460 --> 33:09.390 that have been literally out of their, 33:09.390 --> 33:10.930 what they consider to be their homeland 33:10.930 --> 33:12.310 for nearly 40 years now. 33:12.310 --> 33:14.570 And it seems to me that at some stage of the game, 33:14.570 --> 33:18.000 some additional attention to that would be appropriate. 33:18.000 --> 33:19.340 And I'm not sure whether it starts with you 33:19.340 --> 33:20.270 or with the State Department, 33:20.270 --> 33:21.710 but most certainly, it's an item 33:21.710 --> 33:23.858 that I think should be of interest. 33:23.858 --> 33:25.810 Admiral Faller, I'm just curious. 33:25.810 --> 33:27.350 You mentioned that most certainly 33:27.350 --> 33:31.050 the U.S. Navy could use some additional assets. 33:31.050 --> 33:32.350 On your wish list, 33:32.350 --> 33:35.810 if you were to request additional resources, 33:35.810 --> 33:37.660 specifically what would be the resource 33:37.660 --> 33:39.060 that would be number one on your list 33:39.060 --> 33:42.053 of requested items or equipment? 33:43.570 --> 33:47.430 - Senator, the additional ISR maritime 33:47.430 --> 33:50.760 patrol aircraft helicopters coupled with ships. 33:50.760 --> 33:52.630 So we look forward to the Navy plans 33:52.630 --> 33:55.270 to deploy littoral combat ship later this year. 33:55.270 --> 33:57.850 That's mission fit for the kind of missions 33:57.850 --> 33:58.690 that we'd have down there, 33:58.690 --> 34:01.750 which would involve partnering with nations, 34:01.750 --> 34:04.430 training, humanitarian assistance possibly, 34:04.430 --> 34:06.150 but also the drug interdiction. 34:06.150 --> 34:08.730 So, that would be number one, top of my list, sir. 34:08.730 --> 34:09.563 - [Mike] Thank you. 34:09.563 --> 34:10.660 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 34:10.660 --> 34:12.974 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Rounds. 34:12.974 --> 34:14.307 Senator Shaheen. 34:15.260 --> 34:16.580 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 34:16.580 --> 34:19.910 Thank you both very much for your many years of service. 34:19.910 --> 34:22.193 General Waldhauser, we will miss you. 34:24.010 --> 34:26.010 I'm sure you won't necessarily miss coming 34:26.010 --> 34:27.560 before this committee, however. 34:28.757 --> 34:32.439 You reference in your written statement, General Waldhauser, 34:32.439 --> 34:35.760 the Women, Peace, and Security Initiative. 34:35.760 --> 34:39.510 And in the 2019 defense budget, 34:39.510 --> 34:41.850 we included $4 million in funding 34:41.850 --> 34:43.450 for full-time gender advisors. 34:43.450 --> 34:45.200 I was pleased, Admiral Faller, 34:45.200 --> 34:46.965 that you introduced your gender advisor, 34:46.965 --> 34:48.783 who is here this morning. 34:50.020 --> 34:52.770 But, AFRICOM has been commended as a leader 34:52.770 --> 34:55.980 in implementing the Women, Peace, and Security Initiative. 34:55.980 --> 34:58.670 Can you talk about what you have seen 34:58.670 --> 35:01.220 and the success of this initiative 35:01.220 --> 35:05.510 and how you see it be, seen it be helpful in Africa? 35:05.510 --> 35:06.910 - I think, thank you, Senator Shaheen. 35:06.910 --> 35:08.320 I think the strategy we've applied 35:08.320 --> 35:10.580 over the last few years is just take little things 35:10.580 --> 35:11.880 and keep moving forward. 35:11.880 --> 35:13.810 So, for example, out of the AFRICOM headquarters, 35:13.810 --> 35:15.270 we run a program every year 35:15.270 --> 35:17.910 where we bring about 15 to 20 females 35:17.910 --> 35:18.820 from the African continent 35:18.820 --> 35:21.000 and take them all over the United States 35:21.000 --> 35:23.940 to talk to various military leaders and so forth, 35:23.940 --> 35:26.920 to give them basically a leadership seminar. 35:26.920 --> 35:28.162 We also have seen growth. 35:28.162 --> 35:31.480 For example, we run communications seminars in Cape Verde, 35:31.480 --> 35:33.640 which is an island off the Western Africa. 35:33.640 --> 35:35.040 The number of females who have come 35:35.040 --> 35:36.879 to those particular engagements has increased 35:36.879 --> 35:39.670 significantly over the last few years. 35:39.670 --> 35:42.540 You also have an example of we have a flintlock operation, 35:42.540 --> 35:45.780 which is a special operations main exercise of the year, 35:45.780 --> 35:46.613 which, by the way, 35:46.613 --> 35:48.950 will start here later this month in Burkina Faso. 35:48.950 --> 35:50.117 Last year when it was in Niger, 35:50.117 --> 35:53.990 USAID was able to bring together women leaders, 35:53.990 --> 35:56.570 business leaders, bring them to this exercise, 35:56.570 --> 35:59.230 and have a discussion in a forum with military members 35:59.230 --> 36:02.120 about women and peace and what women can contribute. 36:02.120 --> 36:04.660 The bottom line is we've kept chipping away 36:04.660 --> 36:06.180 at small programs. 36:06.180 --> 36:07.590 We think they're having an impact, 36:07.590 --> 36:09.440 and we're pretty proud of what we do. 36:10.400 --> 36:12.470 - Well, I agree, I think you are to be commended. 36:12.470 --> 36:15.586 Can you talk about what kind of impact you see? 36:15.586 --> 36:17.770 Why does this make a difference? 36:17.770 --> 36:19.630 - Well, I think first of all it's just exposure, 36:19.630 --> 36:23.408 I mean to see that you know a mixed gender military is 36:23.408 --> 36:26.730 a better military and with various, you know, 36:26.730 --> 36:28.570 we have a large continent with different countries 36:28.570 --> 36:30.320 and different cultures, and so forth, 36:30.320 --> 36:32.550 and it exposes them to our leadership. 36:32.550 --> 36:35.300 It exposes the African military male leaders 36:35.300 --> 36:39.710 to what the female can bring, if you will, to the military. 36:39.710 --> 36:40.920 So I think from that perspective, 36:40.920 --> 36:43.340 it's really a bottoms-up approach. 36:43.340 --> 36:47.066 - Great, Admiral Faller, I wanna switch topics 36:47.066 --> 36:49.010 because we are still struggling 36:49.010 --> 36:51.070 with the opioid epidemic here in America. 36:51.070 --> 36:55.960 And New Hampshire has had consistently, unfortunately, 36:55.960 --> 36:57.650 one of the highest overdose death rates 36:57.650 --> 36:59.430 in the country from opioids. 36:59.430 --> 37:02.960 And much of what we're seeing in New Hampshire is 37:02.960 --> 37:06.010 heroin that has been produced in Mexico, 37:06.010 --> 37:08.480 but also in a number of Central American countries, 37:08.480 --> 37:12.950 and it comes in by boat and by air into the United States. 37:12.950 --> 37:14.600 At one point we had a, 37:14.600 --> 37:17.430 before you became the head of SOUTHCOM, 37:17.430 --> 37:22.100 we had a briefing with then head of SOUTHCOM, 37:22.100 --> 37:25.610 who said that we interdict a very small percentage, 37:25.610 --> 37:28.960 my recollection was about 20% of what we see 37:28.960 --> 37:33.960 that we could interdict because we are lacking in resources. 37:34.130 --> 37:35.990 Can you update us on whether you're seeing 37:35.990 --> 37:38.250 an improvement in those numbers 37:38.250 --> 37:42.620 and what you need to have in order for us to do a better job 37:42.620 --> 37:46.330 with interdicting those drugs coming into the country? 37:46.330 --> 37:48.810 - Senator, it's a national security crisis, 37:48.810 --> 37:51.140 over 70,000 deaths, as you're well aware, 37:51.140 --> 37:52.410 from your home state. 37:52.410 --> 37:55.650 And while I'd say we've made progress, 37:55.650 --> 37:58.610 2017, 2018 were record interdiction years, 37:58.610 --> 38:00.760 we've got a lot of work to do. 38:00.760 --> 38:01.820 We're not there. 38:01.820 --> 38:04.610 And we're focused on our partners. 38:04.610 --> 38:07.970 El Salvador has stepped up, Guatemala, Panama, 38:07.970 --> 38:10.640 but there are other partners that need to do more. 38:10.640 --> 38:13.180 And we need some additional assets, 38:13.180 --> 38:16.580 some ships, some force, we call them force packages 38:16.580 --> 38:19.252 from the ISR that we need to detect 38:19.252 --> 38:21.020 to what you'd need to interdict, 38:21.020 --> 38:24.160 and so more work to be done for sure 38:24.160 --> 38:25.993 in this problem, senator. 38:27.270 --> 38:28.103 - Well, thank you. 38:28.103 --> 38:29.590 I'm glad you mentioned El Salvador 38:29.590 --> 38:31.470 because New Hampshire's National Guard has 38:31.470 --> 38:33.620 a state partnership program with El Salvador. 38:33.620 --> 38:35.024 Can you talk about the difference 38:35.024 --> 38:38.660 that those partnership programs make 38:38.660 --> 38:40.313 in a country like El Salvador? 38:41.321 --> 38:42.970 - It's one of our main efforts. 38:42.970 --> 38:46.280 They bring a lasting, long relationship to the state. 38:46.280 --> 38:47.590 Before I went to El Salvador, 38:47.590 --> 38:50.740 I had a videoconference with your general, 38:50.740 --> 38:53.100 and he shared more with me 38:53.100 --> 38:54.360 than I was able to share with him, 38:54.360 --> 38:56.238 and I sent him my trip report afterwards. 38:56.238 --> 38:58.790 It really helps us build capacity. 38:58.790 --> 39:00.020 They go in there and they work 39:00.020 --> 39:01.930 on that mill to mill engagement. 39:01.930 --> 39:04.300 They also work on civil affairs projects 39:04.300 --> 39:06.770 where they'll go out, build a school, 39:06.770 --> 39:08.590 dig a well, and things, other things, 39:08.590 --> 39:10.504 that we need to help stabilize 39:10.504 --> 39:12.510 the conditions for the citizens. 39:12.510 --> 39:13.620 It's very important, senator. 39:13.620 --> 39:15.050 Thank you for the support. 39:15.050 --> 39:16.240 - Thank you, I'm out of time, 39:16.240 --> 39:19.500 but General Waldhauser the last time you were here, 39:19.500 --> 39:21.070 I asked you about the girls 39:21.070 --> 39:22.920 who had been kidnapped by Boko Haram 39:22.920 --> 39:26.620 and what we're doing in AFRICOM to help the Nigerians, 39:26.620 --> 39:28.530 in particular, address that issue. 39:28.530 --> 39:30.580 Do you have any update for us? 39:30.580 --> 39:32.240 - Ma'am, I really have no update. 39:32.240 --> 39:35.130 I would just tell you that of the 276 girls 39:35.130 --> 39:36.930 who were kidnapped in April of 2014, 39:38.130 --> 39:41.600 I think a number of 163 have been recovered, 39:41.600 --> 39:44.540 but the other, there's 113 or thereabouts, 39:44.540 --> 39:45.950 that still are unaccounted for. 39:45.950 --> 39:48.410 I could talk in more detail in the classified session, 39:48.410 --> 39:49.243 but the bottom line is 39:49.243 --> 39:51.580 there has not been much progress, from what I can see, 39:51.580 --> 39:55.252 in terms of getting any of those remainder back. 39:55.252 --> 39:56.085 - [Jeanne] Thank you. 39:56.085 --> 39:57.030 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Shaheen. 39:57.030 --> 39:58.493 Senator McSally? 39:59.630 --> 40:00.760 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 40:00.760 --> 40:02.963 Thanks, gentleman for your leadership. 40:04.354 --> 40:07.250 General Waldhauser, it was about 12 years ago 40:07.250 --> 40:08.940 that I was sent to Stuttgart 40:08.940 --> 40:11.090 as part of the AFRICOM transition team 40:11.090 --> 40:13.064 to stand up your command. 40:13.064 --> 40:15.410 We had just a handful of us, 40:15.410 --> 40:18.680 no resources, no facilities, no assets. 40:18.680 --> 40:20.500 At the time, we were going to be the kinder, 40:20.500 --> 40:24.910 gentler command without a whole lot of operational focus. 40:24.910 --> 40:27.185 I was the J33 chief of Current Operations. 40:27.185 --> 40:31.960 We very quickly realized, you know, Africa continues 40:31.960 --> 40:35.950 to be a potential hotspot for terrorist activity, 40:35.950 --> 40:37.650 both on the East Coast and the West Coast, 40:37.650 --> 40:39.770 and other areas and ungoverned spaces, 40:39.770 --> 40:41.586 and we had to ramp up very fast 40:41.586 --> 40:44.250 to be able to take on that task. 40:44.250 --> 40:46.120 However, you know, I see in your testimony 40:46.120 --> 40:48.270 you talk about al-Shabaab and the challenges in Somalia. 40:48.270 --> 40:50.170 At the time when we were running 40:50.170 --> 40:53.600 the time-sensitive targeting operations we watched, 40:53.600 --> 40:55.570 literally watched with our ISR 40:55.570 --> 40:57.015 hundreds and hundreds and hundreds 40:57.015 --> 41:01.300 of al-Shabaab-trained militants out there 41:01.300 --> 41:06.300 in the middle of nowhere with no collateral damage concerns 41:06.400 --> 41:07.670 being trained at training camps 41:07.670 --> 41:10.670 and then being released because, at the time, 41:10.670 --> 41:12.140 the civilian political leadership in our country 41:12.140 --> 41:15.180 didn't feel that we needed to do anything about it. 41:15.180 --> 41:17.615 Like a cancer growing and metastasizing, 41:17.615 --> 41:19.700 we continued to see their strength grow 41:19.700 --> 41:20.660 and the capabilities grow, 41:20.660 --> 41:21.523 we just didn't do anything about it. 41:21.523 --> 41:25.810 So do you have the authorities you need 41:25.810 --> 41:29.540 to address the terrorist threat in your area 41:29.540 --> 41:32.800 of responsibility now, unlike back when I was there? 41:32.800 --> 41:34.960 I've got bad memories about all that. 41:34.960 --> 41:37.240 And also, you know, how does that fit 41:37.240 --> 41:39.320 within our vital national interests 41:39.320 --> 41:41.553 and the National Defense Strategy? 41:43.010 --> 41:43.843 - Thank you, senator. 41:43.843 --> 41:44.676 There's a lot there, 41:44.676 --> 41:46.900 and I hope we're living up to our expectations 41:46.900 --> 41:48.940 of how AFRICOM is performing. 41:48.940 --> 41:49.820 And it's a little bit better 41:49.820 --> 41:51.777 than when you were there starting things up. 41:51.777 --> 41:52.610 - [Martha] I know. 41:52.610 --> 41:53.910 - Look, let me just take the strikes on. 41:53.910 --> 41:54.790 I'll try to be brief, 41:54.790 --> 41:56.920 but I think it's important to provide some context. 41:56.920 --> 42:00.183 In April of 2017, we were given authorities 42:00.183 --> 42:04.010 from the national security apparatus to initiate, 42:04.010 --> 42:08.760 to be able to have offensive capabilities inside of Somalia. 42:08.760 --> 42:10.210 That combined with the legitimacy 42:10.210 --> 42:12.010 of a federal government there, 42:12.010 --> 42:14.070 our strikes are tied to their strategy, 42:14.070 --> 42:17.330 our legitimacy comes from our authorities, 42:17.330 --> 42:20.290 as well as the federal government that we're tied in with. 42:20.290 --> 42:23.370 We had strikes for seven months in the year of 2017, 42:23.370 --> 42:25.170 where we had 35 strikes. 42:25.170 --> 42:27.850 Last year in 2018, we had 47 strikes 42:27.850 --> 42:30.420 for the overall 12-month period. 42:30.420 --> 42:33.850 Thus far this year, we've had I think 12 so far, 42:33.850 --> 42:35.590 but the bottom, the point I want to make is 42:35.590 --> 42:39.190 that the strikes are tied to the transition strategy 42:39.190 --> 42:40.674 that the federal government of Somalia 42:40.674 --> 42:43.460 and the Somalian National Army are trying to execute. 42:43.460 --> 42:46.210 So, in other words, we're trying to support their plan. 42:47.130 --> 42:49.990 President Farmajo has indicated that his main effort 42:49.990 --> 42:53.430 for security is Mogadishu and so his transitional, 42:53.430 --> 42:55.919 his transitional strategy has that in mind. 42:55.919 --> 42:58.486 Finally, I would just say that at the end of the day, 42:58.486 --> 43:01.070 these strikes are not gonna defeat al-Shabaab, 43:01.070 --> 43:02.600 but they're gonna provide the opportunity 43:02.600 --> 43:04.970 for the federal government and the Somalian National Army 43:04.970 --> 43:08.640 to grow and assume the security of that country. 43:08.640 --> 43:09.537 I would just say that, 43:09.537 --> 43:12.150 and that points to the reason my bottom line is 43:12.150 --> 43:14.180 the strikes won't defeat, 43:14.180 --> 43:16.410 we know that they are causing problems, 43:16.410 --> 43:18.110 we know that they are deterring. 43:18.110 --> 43:19.860 It's an open question as to how much, 43:19.860 --> 43:22.590 but we know it's causing al-Shabaab problems giving 43:22.590 --> 43:24.360 this opportunity for the government. 43:24.360 --> 43:25.193 But the bottom line is 43:25.193 --> 43:28.210 the Somalian National Army needs to grow, 43:28.210 --> 43:29.302 it needs to step up, 43:29.302 --> 43:32.050 and it needs to take responsibility for their own security, 43:32.050 --> 43:33.350 not only for our strikes, 43:33.350 --> 43:36.610 but the overall international community that's tied there. 43:36.610 --> 43:40.930 We're talking about the European Union, 43:40.930 --> 43:43.800 we're talking about the United Nations, the U.K., Turkey, 43:43.800 --> 43:46.130 We all have pieces of the puzzle down there, 43:46.130 --> 43:49.690 and one of our pieces is the strike aspect, 43:49.690 --> 43:50.920 but the bottom line is 43:50.920 --> 43:52.960 the Somalian National Army needs to grow, 43:52.960 --> 43:53.960 needs to step up. 43:53.960 --> 43:56.460 And we have made this point very clear, 43:56.460 --> 43:59.010 both the new ambassador and myself on numerous occasions 43:59.010 --> 44:01.210 to President Farmajo and Prime Minister Khayre. 44:01.210 --> 44:02.260 They know this. 44:02.260 --> 44:03.130 They've got to step up, 44:03.130 --> 44:04.240 It's up to them to take advantage 44:04.240 --> 44:06.640 of the opportunity they have right now. 44:06.640 --> 44:07.525 - Great, thank you. 44:07.525 --> 44:09.090 Admiral Faller, I just have a little bit of time left, 44:09.090 --> 44:11.340 but I wanna get back onto the counter drug 44:11.340 --> 44:14.200 and the drug flow in your AOR. 44:14.200 --> 44:15.840 And I know your resource, 44:15.840 --> 44:17.350 you're short of resources that you need. 44:17.350 --> 44:18.660 What are you seeing as far as the trends 44:18.660 --> 44:21.781 of the cartel activity over water, over land, 44:21.781 --> 44:24.840 submarines, light aircraft and, I mean, 44:24.840 --> 44:26.810 they're nimble and they are innovative, 44:26.810 --> 44:27.660 so what are the trends? 44:27.660 --> 44:29.520 Are they still kind of going over water 44:29.520 --> 44:31.590 up until then over land from Mexico up 44:31.590 --> 44:33.397 or like what are you seeing in the trends 44:33.397 --> 44:35.503 and what else do we need to combat it? 44:35.503 --> 44:37.670 - They are very nimble and they're agile, 44:37.670 --> 44:39.740 and in many cases, better funded 44:39.740 --> 44:41.435 than the security forces they face. 44:41.435 --> 44:42.570 So they adapt. 44:42.570 --> 44:44.630 We're seeing them go further out to sea, 44:44.630 --> 44:47.790 as far out into the Pacific as around the Galapagos and up. 44:47.790 --> 44:48.820 We're seeing them integrate 44:48.820 --> 44:51.430 with fishing vessels in a different manner. 44:51.430 --> 44:53.910 We're seeing them with lower-profile vessels 44:53.910 --> 44:55.890 including some submerged vessels. 44:55.890 --> 44:57.650 In the air, we're seeing them use Venezuela 44:57.650 --> 45:00.550 as a launch point to fly out of Venezuela, 45:00.550 --> 45:02.800 so cross-border traffic, if you will, 45:02.800 --> 45:04.219 using Venezuela's current state 45:04.219 --> 45:07.400 as a launch point up through the middle of the Caribbean 45:07.400 --> 45:11.280 and then into remote airfields throughout Central America. 45:11.280 --> 45:13.140 And so as they adapt, we adapt, 45:13.140 --> 45:14.730 but they adapt faster, 45:14.730 --> 45:17.640 and they have more flexible resources. 45:17.640 --> 45:22.640 And so we're trying to get after it, but it's a challenge. 45:22.920 --> 45:25.073 - Thanks, I'm out of time, appreciate it. 45:27.040 --> 45:29.200 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator McSally. 45:29.200 --> 45:30.130 Senator Peters? 45:30.130 --> 45:31.940 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you, gentlemen 45:31.940 --> 45:32.997 for your testimony today 45:32.997 --> 45:37.050 and your distinguished service over many years. 45:37.050 --> 45:39.470 Admiral Faller, last year I asked Admiral Tidd 45:39.470 --> 45:41.440 about the situation in Venezuela 45:41.440 --> 45:45.300 including the role of military advisers from Cuba. 45:45.300 --> 45:48.430 Certainly, a lot has changed since that meeting. 45:48.430 --> 45:49.630 I wanna follow up on a question 45:49.630 --> 45:53.360 that Senator Reed asked basically related to the military. 45:53.360 --> 45:56.470 And your response was that there are more generals 45:56.470 --> 45:58.690 in Venezuela than there are in NATO. 45:58.690 --> 46:02.990 So my question is if Maduro is gonna be clearly relying 46:02.990 --> 46:05.400 on this military to prop him up, 46:05.400 --> 46:09.300 what is the extent to the everyday soldiers, 46:09.300 --> 46:12.173 the enlisted folks, the discipline in the military, 46:13.240 --> 46:16.090 do those generals really have command over that military? 46:18.340 --> 46:22.540 - Senator, the leaders, including the Cuban guards 46:22.540 --> 46:25.680 that completely surround the illegitimate government 46:25.680 --> 46:30.390 of Maduro seem to have a grip on the top level. 46:30.390 --> 46:32.650 What we read at this level, 46:32.650 --> 46:34.680 that we can talk about more in a classified setting session, 46:34.680 --> 46:36.920 that the rank and file are starving 46:36.920 --> 46:38.810 just like their population. 46:38.810 --> 46:39.910 I had the opportunity to go 46:39.910 --> 46:42.330 on the Colombian-Venezuelan border 46:42.330 --> 46:43.755 to one of our medical camps. 46:43.755 --> 46:46.520 It was operating off the Comfort 46:46.520 --> 46:49.170 and to see some of these kids that were, 46:49.170 --> 46:51.350 had lost 25, 30 pounds in a year, 46:51.350 --> 46:52.470 they were stick thin, 46:52.470 --> 46:54.400 they'd never had medical attention. 46:54.400 --> 46:55.930 We think that condition affects 46:55.930 --> 46:58.120 a large swath of the population, 46:58.120 --> 47:00.050 and we think that population's ready 47:00.050 --> 47:01.350 for a new leader, senator. 47:03.780 --> 47:04.817 - Admiral Faller, you also mentioned some 47:04.817 --> 47:08.690 of the additional assets that you need, ISR and ships. 47:08.690 --> 47:11.490 And you mentioned the littoral combat ship coming on line, 47:11.490 --> 47:12.640 and how that's going to contribute 47:12.640 --> 47:14.400 to the fulfillment of your mission. 47:14.400 --> 47:15.710 Could you give us some sense 47:15.710 --> 47:17.320 of the status and timing of that? 47:17.320 --> 47:19.169 And how you see that being fully developed 47:19.169 --> 47:20.783 in the months and years ahead? 47:21.880 --> 47:23.670 - Senator, we expect to have 47:23.670 --> 47:25.340 a littoral combat ship this year, 47:25.340 --> 47:28.550 and that will be a big benefit for our exercise program 47:28.550 --> 47:30.170 for our engagement with partners, 47:30.170 --> 47:31.901 and because of the flexibility it brings 47:31.901 --> 47:34.370 for counter narcotic interdiction. 47:34.370 --> 47:36.340 Counter narcotic will be its first mission, 47:36.340 --> 47:37.173 and then we look forward 47:37.173 --> 47:39.460 to continuous presence moving forward. 47:39.460 --> 47:40.860 We're working with our Navy. 47:40.860 --> 47:42.867 They have readiness challenges, 47:42.867 --> 47:44.070 and they don't have enough ships, 47:44.070 --> 47:45.303 so I think that's well, 47:45.303 --> 47:48.120 been discussed well before this committee, 47:48.120 --> 47:49.800 and we have the support we need. 47:49.800 --> 47:51.463 We look forward to the assets. 47:52.830 --> 47:54.440 - In addition to those assets, 47:54.440 --> 47:56.580 I know your predecessors have talked about the fact 47:56.580 --> 48:00.054 that the Navy and the Southern Command has white hulls, 48:00.054 --> 48:02.850 the U.S. Coast Guard performs brilliantly 48:02.850 --> 48:04.930 in those counter narcotics missions, 48:04.930 --> 48:09.010 as well as other missions related to your task. 48:09.010 --> 48:11.480 You know, I visited Coast Guard units in Michigan 48:11.480 --> 48:13.890 who were in incredibly stressed 48:13.890 --> 48:15.950 as a result of the government shutdown, 48:15.950 --> 48:17.870 concerned about their families, 48:17.870 --> 48:21.160 particularly junior enlisted that were living on the edge. 48:21.160 --> 48:21.993 You have men and women 48:21.993 --> 48:23.620 in the Coast Guard being deployed away 48:23.620 --> 48:25.570 from home worrying about their families. 48:25.570 --> 48:27.030 Could you talk a little bit about the impact 48:27.030 --> 48:28.660 of the shut down on morale 48:28.660 --> 48:31.450 and the ability to execute the mission? 48:31.450 --> 48:34.280 - Sir, Monday morning I had the opportunity to stand 48:34.280 --> 48:36.330 on the deck of the Coast Guard Cutter Forward 48:36.330 --> 48:38.400 with Admiral Schultz, the commandant of the Coast Guard. 48:38.400 --> 48:41.320 This crew of 110 of America's finest 48:41.320 --> 48:42.640 had deployed over Christmas. 48:42.640 --> 48:44.435 Record number of seizures, 48:44.435 --> 48:46.660 17 metric tons of cocaine, 48:46.660 --> 48:48.540 which is hundreds of lives saved in the U.S. 48:48.540 --> 48:51.640 They did that deployment with, a large part, 48:51.640 --> 48:53.911 without pay and without adequate parts 48:53.911 --> 48:57.060 because that was affected by contracting. 48:57.060 --> 48:59.340 And it was difficult for Admiral Schultz and I 48:59.340 --> 49:01.770 to address some of their questions. 49:01.770 --> 49:05.500 They had remarkable resiliency and remarkable attitude 49:05.500 --> 49:06.890 and they are our main battery. 49:06.890 --> 49:07.740 During that period, 49:07.740 --> 49:09.620 there was nine Coast Guard Cutters deployed, 49:09.620 --> 49:10.760 counter narcotics missions, 49:10.760 --> 49:14.010 some 1,600 Coast Guard men and women working 49:14.010 --> 49:16.077 for the United States Southern Command. 49:16.077 --> 49:17.377 And it did have an impact, 49:17.377 --> 49:19.920 and we're thankful that the shutdown's over, senator. 49:19.920 --> 49:21.691 - And why we can't have any more shutdowns 49:21.691 --> 49:23.153 for that very reason to make sure 49:23.153 --> 49:25.150 that our men and women of the Coast Guard are getting paid 49:25.150 --> 49:27.550 like every other member of the military 49:27.550 --> 49:28.650 out there defending us. 49:28.650 --> 49:30.930 So I appreciate those comments. 49:30.930 --> 49:33.500 General Waldhauser, we have talked in this committee 49:33.500 --> 49:36.580 quite a bit about China's influence in Africa, 49:36.580 --> 49:38.128 and as it continues to increase, 49:38.128 --> 49:40.031 you mentioned in your opening comments 49:40.031 --> 49:42.623 that Russia is also increasing their involvement. 49:42.623 --> 49:44.950 Would you please elaborate 49:44.950 --> 49:46.370 on that involvement to the committee, 49:46.370 --> 49:49.460 and why we should be concerned 49:49.460 --> 49:52.720 about Russian involvement on the continent? 49:52.720 --> 49:53.980 - Senator, I think the issue 49:53.980 --> 49:55.530 with Russia has to do with influence. 49:55.530 --> 49:58.300 I think in recent months over the past year, 49:58.300 --> 50:01.140 they've perhaps gotten more involved in mineral extraction. 50:01.140 --> 50:03.760 But to a large degree it's still a matter of influence, 50:03.760 --> 50:05.550 especially in areas we're not 50:05.550 --> 50:07.520 or especially in areas where they could say 50:07.520 --> 50:10.810 that the United States or the UK or Western partners are 50:10.810 --> 50:12.770 perhaps backing away from Africa. 50:12.770 --> 50:15.000 It's, I think, clear that their strategy 50:15.000 --> 50:16.531 along the northern part of Africa, 50:16.531 --> 50:19.069 southern part of NATO, if you will, the Mediterranean, 50:19.069 --> 50:23.304 to have influence inside Libya, for example, 50:23.304 --> 50:24.890 The relationships across that country, 50:24.890 --> 50:26.600 they wanna have across the continent 50:26.600 --> 50:28.620 they wanna have influence on the continent. 50:28.620 --> 50:31.440 I would just point to the central Africa Republic right now, 50:31.440 --> 50:35.630 where the Wagner Group has about 175 trainers, 50:35.630 --> 50:38.290 where some of the individuals are 50:38.290 --> 50:40.130 in actually the president's cabinet, 50:40.130 --> 50:41.710 and they're influencing the training, 50:41.710 --> 50:42.930 as well as at the same time, 50:42.930 --> 50:46.030 having access to minerals in that part of the country. 50:46.030 --> 50:49.030 So we are concerned that that model might be looked at 50:49.030 --> 50:50.634 or viewed positively by other countries 50:50.634 --> 50:53.440 in terms of their ability to train 50:53.440 --> 50:55.240 and their ability to influence the government 50:55.240 --> 50:56.950 at the presidential level, 50:56.950 --> 51:00.320 as well as then getting involved in instruction of minerals. 51:00.320 --> 51:01.270 - [Gary] Thank you. 51:02.222 --> 51:03.220 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Peters. 51:03.220 --> 51:04.123 Senator Scott. 51:08.030 --> 51:09.240 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 51:09.240 --> 51:10.090 Admiral Faller, can you talk 51:10.090 --> 51:12.710 about Cuba's intelligence security 51:12.710 --> 51:14.370 and military influence in Latin America, 51:14.370 --> 51:17.133 and what they're doing and how we can combat it? 51:18.720 --> 51:21.710 - You can't talk about Cuba without talking about Russia. 51:21.710 --> 51:23.100 And Russia is entrenched 51:23.100 --> 51:26.940 in Cuba weapons systems and support. 51:26.940 --> 51:28.870 And then looking at across Latin America 51:28.870 --> 51:32.950 we see Cuba inextricably just intertwined 51:32.950 --> 51:34.583 in all enemy elements of Venezuela. 51:34.583 --> 51:37.690 In fact, the national security advisor 51:37.690 --> 51:39.810 called it Cubazuela yesterday. 51:39.810 --> 51:42.060 I would agree with that characterization. 51:42.060 --> 51:45.487 We see that in Nicaragua as well, 51:45.487 --> 51:50.487 and it's not helpful to democracy. 51:50.560 --> 51:53.820 And it's an autocratic way of life that runs counter 51:53.820 --> 51:56.240 to really the principles of the hemisphere, 51:56.240 --> 51:59.053 which are very much a democratic hemisphere, so. 52:00.570 --> 52:05.500 - The sanctions that we've imposed on nationals 52:05.500 --> 52:06.890 in both Cuba and Venezuela, 52:06.890 --> 52:08.530 have you seen them have any impact? 52:08.530 --> 52:10.860 Have you seen anybody change their action 52:10.860 --> 52:12.080 as a result of them? 52:12.080 --> 52:13.990 - We're watching that closely. 52:13.990 --> 52:15.270 We're watching intelligence. 52:15.270 --> 52:17.850 There is a discussion of the impact. 52:17.850 --> 52:19.223 We're seeing impacts, 52:20.450 --> 52:22.180 but we haven't seen the desired result, 52:22.180 --> 52:24.460 which is a peaceful democratic transition 52:24.460 --> 52:27.120 to a legitimate government yet, senator. 52:27.120 --> 52:28.800 - But you know, the sanctions we've done 52:28.800 --> 52:30.283 against individuals in Cuba, 52:30.283 --> 52:31.560 and we've done that over a period of time, 52:31.560 --> 52:33.410 have you seen, has anything happened? 52:35.130 --> 52:37.630 - It doesn't seem to have affected the overall calculus 52:37.630 --> 52:41.100 of the Cuban regime other than harden it, solidify it, 52:41.100 --> 52:43.040 and tie it more closely to Russia. 52:43.040 --> 52:45.650 But I think it's almost like deterrence. 52:45.650 --> 52:46.483 You don't know what happens 52:46.483 --> 52:47.630 when you don't have them, senator, 52:47.630 --> 52:49.400 so it probably has an impact. 52:49.400 --> 52:50.530 We don't see it. 52:50.530 --> 52:54.340 I would recommend full-court pressure works. 52:54.340 --> 52:58.150 - Okay, and the Venezuelan military, 52:58.150 --> 53:01.280 have you, I mean is there, have you seen any cracking 53:01.280 --> 53:05.720 from the standpoint of what we've been doing over the last, 53:05.720 --> 53:06.700 especially the last two weeks? 53:06.700 --> 53:08.270 Has anything changed? 53:08.270 --> 53:12.150 - Certainly there's been readiness aspects of their military 53:12.150 --> 53:14.560 that we've watched very closely. 53:14.560 --> 53:16.260 It's a degraded force, 53:16.260 --> 53:19.460 but it's still a force that remains loyal to Maduro, 53:19.460 --> 53:21.320 and that makes it dangerous. 53:21.320 --> 53:23.340 We're looking for signs of those cracking, 53:23.340 --> 53:25.530 and we can talk in a closed session 53:25.530 --> 53:27.960 on some more details and trends we are seeing. 53:27.960 --> 53:29.910 - [Rick] Okay, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 53:38.910 --> 53:40.940 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 53:40.940 --> 53:43.950 General, I'd like to ask you about a question, 53:43.950 --> 53:44.783 but first of all, 53:44.783 --> 53:47.700 thank you both for not only being here today, 53:47.700 --> 53:51.530 but for your service and all you do for this country. 53:51.530 --> 53:53.988 General, I'd like to ask you about a, 53:53.988 --> 53:57.820 there was an article yesterday by Reuters concerning 53:57.820 --> 54:00.670 the cut off of assistance to Cameroon 54:00.670 --> 54:02.788 because of concerns about human rights abuses 54:02.788 --> 54:04.930 by the Cameroon government. 54:04.930 --> 54:08.080 The program halted included C-130 aircraft, 54:08.080 --> 54:09.650 a number of different things. 54:09.650 --> 54:13.450 And I'd like to, that report indicated there was 54:13.450 --> 54:16.880 a 2017 report by the U.S. State Department 54:16.880 --> 54:20.370 that listed a number of significant human rights violations 54:20.370 --> 54:23.760 and abuses that were observed in the Cameroon government. 54:23.760 --> 54:27.310 Could you comment on what we're doing there 54:27.310 --> 54:28.520 other than just this halt? 54:28.520 --> 54:31.178 Are we making progress on trying to get that government 54:31.178 --> 54:34.430 to stem the tide of their human rights violations? 54:34.430 --> 54:35.270 - Senator, thank you. 54:35.270 --> 54:36.530 Let me try to explain this. 54:36.530 --> 54:38.580 And I'll start by why we're in Cameroon 54:38.580 --> 54:40.260 and what we're doing there. 54:40.260 --> 54:42.070 We talked this morning about the Chibok girls 54:42.070 --> 54:43.370 from a couple of girls a year years ago, 54:43.370 --> 54:45.111 but Boko Haram is the issue there. 54:45.111 --> 54:48.610 In 2015, they were the number one 54:48.610 --> 54:50.100 terrorist group on the planet. 54:50.100 --> 54:51.250 Depending on what you read, 54:51.250 --> 54:53.040 they've killed over 20,000 people, 54:53.040 --> 54:55.670 some estimates quite higher than that over this time frame. 54:55.670 --> 54:59.260 The Chibok girls' issue, all kind of atrocities. 54:59.260 --> 55:02.930 They are an extremely volatile group 55:02.930 --> 55:04.360 that needs to be dealt with. 55:04.360 --> 55:05.519 So in that region, 55:05.519 --> 55:07.560 our mission there is to train 55:07.560 --> 55:09.800 the counterterrorism forces in northern Cameroon 55:09.800 --> 55:11.530 that deal with Boko Haram. 55:11.530 --> 55:12.940 We've been doing that for several years, 55:12.940 --> 55:14.190 and quite frankly, the BIR, 55:14.190 --> 55:16.936 the brigade of rapid intervention is 55:16.936 --> 55:21.936 the top shelf counterterrorism unit inside Cameroon. 55:23.300 --> 55:24.870 They have performed well, 55:24.870 --> 55:27.720 and they, and that training, by the way, 55:27.720 --> 55:31.120 has certainly law war and battlefield ethics. 55:31.120 --> 55:32.670 So that's why we're there. 55:32.670 --> 55:34.280 The issue on the Anglophone piece, 55:34.280 --> 55:35.570 I won't go into detail on that. 55:35.570 --> 55:37.530 I think the article plus the video this morning did 55:37.530 --> 55:39.840 a very good job of explaining the history 55:39.840 --> 55:42.427 of how it got to the point where we are today. 55:42.427 --> 55:46.730 In October of 2017, when it came kind of to a head, 55:46.730 --> 55:49.190 the Anglophone states said we wanna actually 55:49.190 --> 55:51.960 form our own state, the Ambazonia state. 55:51.960 --> 55:54.670 There have been issues there with atrocities, 55:54.670 --> 55:59.580 issues with allegations of law of war issues, 55:59.580 --> 56:03.000 and this is something that brings all this to a head. 56:03.000 --> 56:05.000 Over the last several months or so, 56:05.000 --> 56:06.730 the State Department has put on hold 56:06.730 --> 56:10.410 several security force assistance programs. 56:10.410 --> 56:12.420 Right before the election in October, 56:12.420 --> 56:13.610 I, with the ambassador, went 56:13.610 --> 56:15.350 and paid a visit with President Biya. 56:15.350 --> 56:17.270 And we had a very direct conversation with him 56:17.270 --> 56:20.110 with regards to investigation of these atrocities, 56:20.110 --> 56:22.110 transparencies of these atrocities, 56:22.110 --> 56:24.890 and appropriate battlefield behavior. 56:24.890 --> 56:27.210 Since that time, the State Department has made 56:27.210 --> 56:30.960 the decision not to allocate significant money, 56:30.960 --> 56:31.793 but, at the same time, 56:31.793 --> 56:32.900 they've released some money 56:32.900 --> 56:34.530 that's been on hold to things 56:34.530 --> 56:37.230 like ScanEagle and Cessna aircraft 56:37.230 --> 56:41.190 that assist in the Boko Haram fight in the north. 56:41.190 --> 56:43.800 We still have programs that we continue with them, 56:43.800 --> 56:46.680 all kind of small engagements as well as exercises. 56:46.680 --> 56:48.620 We did have, we talked about the state 56:48.620 --> 56:50.530 partnership program with Nebraska. 56:50.530 --> 56:54.890 We put that on hold, and in conjunction with the ambassador, 56:54.890 --> 56:57.250 AFRICOM, we decided not to pursue that 56:57.250 --> 56:59.050 because it wouldn't have been a good place 56:59.050 --> 57:00.450 for that particular group to be. 57:00.450 --> 57:02.000 So we put a halt to that. 57:02.000 --> 57:05.340 So the bottom line is, right now, in Cameroon, 57:05.340 --> 57:08.060 they have been a good partner with us counterterrorism wise, 57:08.060 --> 57:10.307 but you can't neglect the fact that they have, 57:10.307 --> 57:13.950 there are alleged atrocities in what's going on there. 57:13.950 --> 57:15.870 And so we continue to take our cues 57:15.870 --> 57:18.350 from the State Department, and from the ambassador. 57:18.350 --> 57:20.620 And our level of engagement will continue, 57:20.620 --> 57:24.050 but not get out ahead of what the State Department would say 57:24.050 --> 57:25.860 if we have to take other actions. 57:25.860 --> 57:28.200 We were very emphatic with President Biya 57:28.200 --> 57:29.600 that the behavior of his troops, 57:29.600 --> 57:32.930 the lack of transparency could have a significant impact 57:32.930 --> 57:34.380 on our ability to work with them. 57:34.380 --> 57:36.010 - Great, well thank you very much for that. 57:36.010 --> 57:37.612 Admiral, I was struck 57:37.612 --> 57:39.820 by a couple things with your testimony. 57:39.820 --> 57:43.740 Number one, I was struck by the charts that you provided 57:44.780 --> 57:48.210 because I think people are not paying as much attention. 57:48.210 --> 57:49.970 We've always heard of, since the Cold War, 57:49.970 --> 57:51.140 about the influence of Russia, 57:51.140 --> 57:53.080 but the Chinese influence 57:53.080 --> 57:56.730 in our backyard is just incredible to me. 57:56.730 --> 57:59.320 And I was struck by your initial comments 57:59.320 --> 58:01.530 about our shared responsibilities, 58:01.530 --> 58:03.190 our shared security with our neighbors, 58:03.190 --> 58:06.800 and how we share so many things together. 58:06.800 --> 58:08.550 And I'm new to this committee, 58:08.550 --> 58:09.730 and so I've been reading a lot, 58:09.730 --> 58:12.401 and I've seen that there are initiatives 58:12.401 --> 58:16.935 for the Pacific and Europe. 58:16.935 --> 58:21.130 Would some similar initiative to that be appropriate 58:21.130 --> 58:24.713 for Central America or for SOUTHCOM? 58:26.140 --> 58:28.410 - Senator, I think a big idea, 58:28.410 --> 58:30.340 initiative that recognizes the importance 58:30.340 --> 58:31.650 of our neighborhood, 58:31.650 --> 58:34.140 recognizes that what goes on right here 58:34.140 --> 58:37.740 in areas connected by sea, land, air, space, cyber, 58:37.740 --> 58:39.527 is important to our shared security, 58:39.527 --> 58:42.050 and our future would be of great benefit. 58:42.050 --> 58:42.883 I worry, senator, 58:42.883 --> 58:45.340 that we're not gonna be present on the field 58:45.340 --> 58:46.914 in enough numbers to play the game. 58:46.914 --> 58:48.100 We've got to be there 58:48.100 --> 58:49.970 to influence the outcome and the results. 58:49.970 --> 58:51.200 - All right, well thank you, sir, 58:51.200 --> 58:53.680 and we'll send you some more Mobile-based, 58:53.680 --> 58:55.896 Mobile-built LCSs. 58:55.896 --> 58:58.563 (members laugh) 59:00.390 --> 59:02.170 - Thank you, gentlemen, for your appearance today, 59:02.170 --> 59:03.330 and your service to our nation, 59:03.330 --> 59:06.010 for all those men and women who serve underneath you 59:06.010 --> 59:08.203 in Africa Command and Southern Command. 59:09.050 --> 59:12.190 Admiral Faller, I wanna return to your comments 59:12.190 --> 59:15.443 about the presence of Cuba and Russia in Venezuela. 59:16.450 --> 59:19.160 You said earlier Cuban guards 59:19.160 --> 59:22.040 completely surround the Maduro government. 59:22.040 --> 59:25.734 Does that mean that Maduro is dependent 59:25.734 --> 59:29.460 on the Cuban security and intelligence forces 59:29.460 --> 59:31.863 for his continuation in office? 59:33.400 --> 59:34.914 - Senator, I think it's a good sense 59:34.914 --> 59:37.890 of where the loyalty of the Venezuelan people are 59:37.890 --> 59:42.120 that his immediate security force is made up of Cubans. 59:42.120 --> 59:46.180 - So the men that surround Maduro, 59:46.180 --> 59:49.890 like our Secret Service, are Cubans, not Venezuelans? 59:49.890 --> 59:52.080 - That is my understanding and assessment of the situation. 59:52.080 --> 59:54.820 - So Venezuela's Intelligence and Security Services are 59:54.820 --> 59:58.890 so corrupt, so incompetent, so disloyal, so sclerotic 59:58.890 --> 01:00:01.820 that Maduro cannot even count on his own personal safety 01:00:01.820 --> 01:00:05.410 in his bed at night on his own people? 01:00:05.410 --> 01:00:08.240 - That's a fair assessment as I understand, senator. 01:00:08.240 --> 01:00:09.330 - How far does that go 01:00:09.330 --> 01:00:11.740 throughout the Venezuelan Security 01:00:11.740 --> 01:00:13.500 and Intelligence Services? 01:00:13.500 --> 01:00:17.360 Does Nicolas Maduro have to depend on Cubans and Russians 01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:20.603 on the streets to beat his own people to keep them in line? 01:00:21.910 --> 01:00:23.773 - Senator, I'm not, beyond the, 01:00:23.773 --> 01:00:26.890 what I characterize I'm not aware of the details, 01:00:26.890 --> 01:00:28.570 but we watch that closely. 01:00:28.570 --> 01:00:29.890 We've seen reporting 01:00:29.890 --> 01:00:32.470 of Russian Security Forces being flown in. 01:00:32.470 --> 01:00:36.100 We're looking for evidence to how that will play out, 01:00:36.100 --> 01:00:38.560 and certainly this is an area that has our focus, 01:00:38.560 --> 01:00:40.660 as well as all our partners in the interagency. 01:00:40.660 --> 01:00:42.610 - And that was another point you mentioned that you said 01:00:42.610 --> 01:00:45.733 you can't speak of Cuba's presence in Venezuela. 01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:47.613 Let me stop myself. 01:00:47.613 --> 01:00:49.780 Can you estimate in this setting 01:00:49.780 --> 01:00:53.060 how many Cuban security and intelligence officers 01:00:53.060 --> 01:00:55.110 there are in Venezuela? 01:00:55.110 --> 01:00:56.310 - Sir, I don't have that number. 01:00:56.310 --> 01:00:57.664 I'd take that for the record. 01:00:57.664 --> 01:01:00.490 - Is it fair to say there are lots? 01:01:00.490 --> 01:01:04.050 - I'd say there's a, there are many, sir. 01:01:04.050 --> 01:01:06.723 I'd also mentioned, senator, the presence of China. 01:01:08.070 --> 01:01:09.920 China's not been helpful in a diplomatic way. 01:01:09.920 --> 01:01:13.670 I'll leave that to the diplomats, but China's in there, 01:01:13.670 --> 01:01:15.900 and they're involved in cyber, 01:01:15.900 --> 01:01:17.910 in ways that are absolutely not helpful 01:01:17.910 --> 01:01:19.783 to a democratic outcome. 01:01:21.330 --> 01:01:24.773 - You talk about Russians traveling into the country. 01:01:25.960 --> 01:01:28.480 Have we seen an increase in Russian presence 01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.950 in Venezuela in the last two months 01:01:30.950 --> 01:01:32.950 as the National Assembly began to take its seat 01:01:32.950 --> 01:01:36.747 and President Guaido declared himself as interim president, 01:01:36.747 --> 01:01:38.630 and the United States and so many other nations 01:01:38.630 --> 01:01:41.490 around the world have recognized his legitimacy? 01:01:41.490 --> 01:01:43.450 - Senator, it's hard with Russia 01:01:43.450 --> 01:01:45.340 to figure out what they're really up to, I-- 01:01:45.340 --> 01:01:46.430 - [Tom] You don't say? 01:01:46.430 --> 01:01:47.521 - There was reports last week 01:01:47.521 --> 01:01:50.460 by Russian official TASS news agency 01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:54.400 that I was actually on the Colombian-Venezuela border, 01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:56.280 and they rolled out with B roll footage 01:01:56.280 --> 01:02:00.190 of amphibious landings and helicopter assaults. 01:02:00.190 --> 01:02:01.240 I was actually walking out 01:02:01.240 --> 01:02:03.820 of Senator Rubio's office at that time, 01:02:03.820 --> 01:02:06.830 but I don't think the truth goes very far 01:02:06.830 --> 01:02:08.530 when it comes to their media, sir. 01:02:10.140 --> 01:02:13.090 - Okay, thank you for those comments, 01:02:13.090 --> 01:02:15.700 Admiral Faller, about Venezuela. 01:02:15.700 --> 01:02:17.650 You mentioned China's activity 01:02:17.650 --> 01:02:19.810 in Venezuela in the cyber domain. 01:02:19.810 --> 01:02:21.940 They obviously are very active, as well, 01:02:21.940 --> 01:02:24.700 in what you might call debt diplomacy 01:02:24.700 --> 01:02:26.380 through their Belt and Road Initiative. 01:02:26.380 --> 01:02:29.030 Secretary of State Pompeo was in Panama last October 01:02:29.030 --> 01:02:31.700 cautioning that nation and all nations 01:02:31.700 --> 01:02:34.370 who are participants in China's Belt and Road Initiative 01:02:34.370 --> 01:02:36.520 about what it could mean for their sovereignty. 01:02:36.520 --> 01:02:38.330 Obviously, China has foreclosed 01:02:38.330 --> 01:02:40.470 on the port outside of Colombo in Sri Lanka. 01:02:40.470 --> 01:02:42.470 Malaysia recently left the initiative 01:02:42.470 --> 01:02:45.720 because of China trying to throw its weight around. 01:02:45.720 --> 01:02:46.770 What's been the results 01:02:46.770 --> 01:02:48.827 of Secretary Pompeo's visit in the region, 01:02:48.827 --> 01:02:50.290 and what feedback are you getting 01:02:50.290 --> 01:02:52.890 from some of these Belt and Road Initiative members? 01:02:53.980 --> 01:02:57.680 - Senator, the states in the region, the countries, 01:02:57.680 --> 01:02:59.322 they want to continue to partner us, 01:02:59.322 --> 01:03:02.370 but I've cautioned the leaders that I've met with 01:03:02.370 --> 01:03:04.380 that while you might wanna do that, 01:03:04.380 --> 01:03:08.320 if you leverage your ports and many of your businesses, 01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:09.930 including your IT infrastructure, 01:03:09.930 --> 01:03:13.510 to Chinese companies with no strings attached, 01:03:13.510 --> 01:03:16.740 and limited understanding of what the internal workings are, 01:03:16.740 --> 01:03:19.550 that you've actually put yourself in jeopardy 01:03:19.550 --> 01:03:22.550 of having a meaningful security relationship with us. 01:03:22.550 --> 01:03:25.700 It gets to a point where I won't be allowed or authorized 01:03:25.700 --> 01:03:27.760 to share information because I just don't know 01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:29.500 where that information's going. 01:03:29.500 --> 01:03:32.450 So been very emphatic about that in terms 01:03:32.450 --> 01:03:35.180 of how it would affect us being a partner of choice. 01:03:35.180 --> 01:03:37.870 This is my concern to the other questions 01:03:37.870 --> 01:03:40.228 that have been asked about what this hemisphere looks like 01:03:40.228 --> 01:03:44.770 10, 15, 25 years from now and who the partner of choice is. 01:03:44.770 --> 01:03:46.590 We've got to be present, senator. 01:03:46.590 --> 01:03:47.473 - Thank you, Admiral Faller. 01:03:47.473 --> 01:03:50.381 General Waldhauser, one question for Africa. 01:03:50.381 --> 01:03:52.460 This is a little bit outside the war fighting domain, 01:03:52.460 --> 01:03:54.130 but the American military is called upon 01:03:54.130 --> 01:03:56.450 to do a lot outside that domain around the world, 01:03:56.450 --> 01:03:58.420 especially in your area of operations. 01:03:58.420 --> 01:04:00.910 Nigeria has its elections next weekend. 01:04:00.910 --> 01:04:03.670 Nigeria is the seventh largest country in the world, 01:04:03.670 --> 01:04:07.240 way larger than Russia, or Mexico, or Japan. 01:04:07.240 --> 01:04:08.503 Important ally of ours. 01:04:09.380 --> 01:04:11.320 What are the prospects for that election? 01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:13.280 Does it appear that it will be free and fair? 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:15.720 And that either party, should they win, 01:04:15.720 --> 01:04:18.550 will continue to be a partner of the United States? 01:04:18.550 --> 01:04:19.670 - Senator, we're very much aware 01:04:19.670 --> 01:04:21.370 of the elections on February 16. 01:04:21.370 --> 01:04:23.140 And from the military perspective, 01:04:23.140 --> 01:04:26.750 we watch that from the standpoint of actions leading up to 01:04:26.750 --> 01:04:28.500 and what will happen afterwards. 01:04:28.500 --> 01:04:30.590 We are, on the intelligence reports 01:04:30.590 --> 01:04:32.170 we hope it will be a peaceful election, 01:04:32.170 --> 01:04:35.200 but I think our sights are set on forward, 01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:36.150 and not in the rearview mirror, 01:04:36.150 --> 01:04:38.560 meaning that whoever would win, that now okay, 01:04:38.560 --> 01:04:40.600 let's sit down and talk about where we are, 01:04:40.600 --> 01:04:41.940 and how we can best help, 01:04:41.940 --> 01:04:44.010 whether it be the displaced people 01:04:44.010 --> 01:04:48.480 and the issues with humanitarian issues in Northern Nigeria, 01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:49.920 whether it's their army 01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:53.000 and their work against Boko Haram and ISIS West Africa. 01:04:53.000 --> 01:04:54.890 So my answer to that question is 01:04:54.890 --> 01:04:56.120 let's get the election over, 01:04:56.120 --> 01:04:57.470 and they're watching this today, by the way. 01:04:57.470 --> 01:05:00.330 I mean, my comments are gonna be watched in Nigeria, 01:05:00.330 --> 01:05:02.380 and it's very important that I don't sway either way. 01:05:02.380 --> 01:05:03.310 - [Tom] Sure, well-- 01:05:03.310 --> 01:05:04.910 - The bottom line is whoever wins, 01:05:04.910 --> 01:05:05.880 we wanna sit down with them 01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:08.410 and now how do we move forward and improve this situation? 01:05:08.410 --> 01:05:09.870 - Good, well, I appreciate that answer, 01:05:09.870 --> 01:05:11.160 and of course their election is 01:05:11.160 --> 01:05:12.640 a choice for the Nigerian people, 01:05:12.640 --> 01:05:14.710 and we want to have a good, stable relationship 01:05:14.710 --> 01:05:18.370 with whoever wins to help continue that partnership. 01:05:18.370 --> 01:05:19.203 Thank you, General. 01:05:19.203 --> 01:05:20.498 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Cotton. 01:05:20.498 --> 01:05:22.283 Senator Duckworth. 01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:25.590 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:05:25.590 --> 01:05:27.460 Gentlemen, thank you for being here today. 01:05:27.460 --> 01:05:28.683 We've already discussed, 01:05:29.910 --> 01:05:33.650 got a good idea of how complex your missions are 01:05:33.650 --> 01:05:36.780 in both of your areas of operation, 01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:39.100 and you know, our vital national interests are 01:05:39.100 --> 01:05:40.800 threatened by violent extremists, 01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:42.310 by great power competition, 01:05:42.310 --> 01:05:45.513 and all of multifaceted challenges that you face. 01:05:46.490 --> 01:05:48.940 As I looked at recent reporting on SOUTHCOM, 01:05:48.940 --> 01:05:50.730 much attention has been on a dictator's effort 01:05:50.730 --> 01:05:51.563 to citing clinging to power 01:05:51.563 --> 01:05:54.040 while in AFRICOM the persistent presence 01:05:54.040 --> 01:05:55.502 of violent extremists. 01:05:55.502 --> 01:05:57.884 Are these events merely symptoms 01:05:57.884 --> 01:06:01.380 of a larger systemic problem in both regions? 01:06:01.380 --> 01:06:02.640 And what, in your assessments, 01:06:02.640 --> 01:06:04.700 are the prime drivers of instability 01:06:04.700 --> 01:06:06.480 in SOUTHCOM and AFRICOM? 01:06:06.480 --> 01:06:07.970 And how are your commands postured 01:06:07.970 --> 01:06:09.710 to deal with the root causes 01:06:09.710 --> 01:06:11.820 'cause it's one thing to deal with the symptoms, 01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:14.730 but what are we doing to really get to the root causes 01:06:14.730 --> 01:06:17.033 that are occurring in both of your regions? 01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:19.790 - I'll go first, senator. 01:06:19.790 --> 01:06:20.623 Thank you very much. 01:06:20.623 --> 01:06:22.490 And I'll use Niger as an example. 01:06:22.490 --> 01:06:25.160 Niger has a population of about 19 million. 01:06:25.160 --> 01:06:27.990 About 50% of those are under the age of 15. 01:06:27.990 --> 01:06:31.660 They certainly are in a very difficult area of Africa, 01:06:31.660 --> 01:06:34.410 meaning that they have pressing from all sides, 01:06:34.410 --> 01:06:38.190 whether it be ISIS West Africa, JNIM in the west, 01:06:38.190 --> 01:06:39.910 whether it be AQ coming down 01:06:39.910 --> 01:06:43.360 through the Algeria-Nigerian border on the way to Mali. 01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:47.360 They have ISIS West Africa on their eastern flank. 01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:49.540 So they're in a tough situation. 01:06:49.540 --> 01:06:50.440 But I think this is, 01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:52.130 what goes unnoticed sometimes is 01:06:52.130 --> 01:06:54.600 the whole-of-government approach that is used in Niger. 01:06:54.600 --> 01:06:58.300 So for example, USAID has about $150 million a year 01:06:58.300 --> 01:07:01.580 that they use for things like education, 01:07:01.580 --> 01:07:03.040 especially for young girls, 01:07:03.040 --> 01:07:06.430 for government and government infrastructure, and so forth. 01:07:06.430 --> 01:07:08.910 Moreover, the Millennium Challenge Corporation has a, 01:07:08.910 --> 01:07:09.743 they're on the, I think, 01:07:09.743 --> 01:07:12.000 the second year of a five-year compact down there 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.980 which has to do with agriculture, 01:07:14.980 --> 01:07:16.730 watering crops, and so forth. 01:07:16.730 --> 01:07:18.440 So if you look at the security assistance 01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:19.530 that we're providing 01:07:19.530 --> 01:07:22.150 and you add to that USAID's effort 01:07:22.150 --> 01:07:23.930 and the Millennium Challenge compact, 01:07:23.930 --> 01:07:25.130 that's, I think, a good example 01:07:25.130 --> 01:07:26.590 of a whole-of-government approach 01:07:26.590 --> 01:07:28.130 of how we're trying to deal with a country 01:07:28.130 --> 01:07:30.870 that has some very significant security challenges. 01:07:30.870 --> 01:07:31.768 - [Tammy] Thank you. 01:07:31.768 --> 01:07:33.290 Admiral Faller. 01:07:33.290 --> 01:07:34.980 - We do have some bright spots. 01:07:34.980 --> 01:07:37.510 I'd like to point out Brazil has been 01:07:37.510 --> 01:07:42.200 a exporter of security in our history, same with Columbia. 01:07:42.200 --> 01:07:44.850 And the trajectory of both our mil-to-mil relations 01:07:44.850 --> 01:07:47.140 with those countries is very positive. 01:07:47.140 --> 01:07:49.070 In the current Venezuela situation, 01:07:49.070 --> 01:07:51.110 we're sharing a lot of information. 01:07:51.110 --> 01:07:54.030 We're looking at this as a regional solution. 01:07:54.030 --> 01:07:57.850 Chile commanded in our largest exercise 01:07:57.850 --> 01:07:59.172 in the Rim of the Pacific. 01:07:59.172 --> 01:08:01.030 But around the region, 01:08:01.030 --> 01:08:04.850 corruption, weak governance, lack of jobs, 01:08:04.850 --> 01:08:06.160 these are things that affect, 01:08:06.160 --> 01:08:09.000 and these are where the military is a part 01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:11.010 of this whole government solution. 01:08:11.010 --> 01:08:12.950 I saw this in Honduras. 01:08:12.950 --> 01:08:15.110 I was in an outreach center run by USAID. 01:08:15.110 --> 01:08:17.890 It was right next to a partnered police station. 01:08:17.890 --> 01:08:21.320 We had a few army civil affairs people there meeting 01:08:21.320 --> 01:08:25.220 with some young men and women that had been supplied jobs. 01:08:25.220 --> 01:08:27.470 And I asked the one individual. 01:08:27.470 --> 01:08:30.440 He'd gone all the way to the U.S.-Mexico border 01:08:30.440 --> 01:08:32.010 and turned around and came all the way back, 01:08:32.010 --> 01:08:33.860 walked, as part of the caravan. 01:08:33.860 --> 01:08:34.693 But, he came back. 01:08:34.693 --> 01:08:35.980 I said, well, why'd you come back? 01:08:35.980 --> 01:08:37.899 He said, it was pretty scary for me. 01:08:37.899 --> 01:08:41.140 I felt that I should come home. 01:08:41.140 --> 01:08:42.670 I said, well, why did you go? 01:08:42.670 --> 01:08:44.712 He goes, the family next to us was starving, 01:08:44.712 --> 01:08:46.420 or we're starving, 01:08:46.420 --> 01:08:48.050 and the family next to them was starving. 01:08:48.050 --> 01:08:49.860 But, across the street they had some food 01:08:49.860 --> 01:08:52.800 because their father had made it to the United States 01:08:52.800 --> 01:08:54.160 and was sending remittance back. 01:08:54.160 --> 01:08:58.290 So, at the heart of this it's a want of a better life, 01:08:58.290 --> 01:09:01.650 and an economy, and a want to have your kids go to school, 01:09:01.650 --> 01:09:04.700 and all citizens of all the world deserve that. 01:09:04.700 --> 01:09:07.050 - Thank you, so, looking at this whole government approach, 01:09:07.050 --> 01:09:09.680 how easy has it been, 01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:13.975 or for you each to work with other executive branch agencies 01:09:13.975 --> 01:09:17.010 to provide a coordinated whole government approach? 01:09:17.010 --> 01:09:19.080 And is this happening, for example, 01:09:19.080 --> 01:09:20.057 it may be happening in Niger, 01:09:20.057 --> 01:09:22.260 but is it happening in other parts of Africa? 01:09:22.260 --> 01:09:25.417 And are we consistent in applying this approach? 01:09:25.417 --> 01:09:29.220 And what can we do to really help you be part 01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:33.220 of this team so that we can get at the root causes? 01:09:33.220 --> 01:09:34.053 - Well, senator, I would say 01:09:34.053 --> 01:09:36.470 that the AFRICOM staff has individuals 01:09:36.470 --> 01:09:38.100 from those agencies that work very closely 01:09:38.100 --> 01:09:40.640 with us on a daily basis. 01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:43.160 Moreover, as dollars become tight, 01:09:43.160 --> 01:09:45.860 our return on investment needs to be demonstrated. 01:09:45.860 --> 01:09:46.693 As a consequence, 01:09:46.693 --> 01:09:49.880 we have to better stewards of our efforts 01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:54.140 in terms of where we wanna place our emphasis. 01:09:54.140 --> 01:09:56.210 We need to coordinate that and synchronize that 01:09:56.210 --> 01:09:59.140 with this agency because really it gets, I think, 01:09:59.140 --> 01:10:00.800 to the larger issue of influence 01:10:00.800 --> 01:10:02.360 into China influence as well. 01:10:02.360 --> 01:10:05.520 We need to demonstrate that we can compete with them. 01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:07.142 We may not be building soccer stadiums 01:10:07.142 --> 01:10:11.024 or government buildings, but at the same time, 01:10:11.024 --> 01:10:13.930 we're teaching them how to be better farmers. 01:10:13.930 --> 01:10:16.510 We're showing them what education can do for them. 01:10:16.510 --> 01:10:17.850 So, the bottom line for us is 01:10:17.850 --> 01:10:20.015 we need to continue to work with our partners, 01:10:20.015 --> 01:10:22.161 which we have good relationships with, by the way. 01:10:22.161 --> 01:10:24.920 This development diplomacy and defense effort 01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:26.850 in the AFRICOM at State Department 01:10:26.850 --> 01:10:30.310 with AFRICOM is a very, very positive experience. 01:10:30.310 --> 01:10:31.650 - [Tammy] Admiral? 01:10:31.650 --> 01:10:32.560 - We have representatives 01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:34.860 from every interagency at my headquarters, 01:10:34.860 --> 01:10:36.111 and they sit in at every meeting. 01:10:36.111 --> 01:10:38.180 We're working this problem set hard, 01:10:38.180 --> 01:10:40.130 and we'll work it in conjunction 01:10:40.130 --> 01:10:42.130 with country teams in the embassy. 01:10:42.130 --> 01:10:45.190 Consistent level resourcing is important 01:10:45.190 --> 01:10:46.600 and recognizing this is a problem 01:10:46.600 --> 01:10:50.790 that will take years to solve, not months or days. 01:10:50.790 --> 01:10:53.120 - [Tammy] Thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:10:53.120 --> 01:10:55.190 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Duckworth. 01:10:55.190 --> 01:10:56.220 Senator Ernst? 01:10:56.220 --> 01:10:57.240 - Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:10:57.240 --> 01:10:59.200 And thank you, gentlemen, for being here today, 01:10:59.200 --> 01:11:01.700 and of course, to the men and women in your commands. 01:11:01.700 --> 01:11:04.020 We thank them for what they do for all of us. 01:11:04.020 --> 01:11:05.297 To the family members that are here, 01:11:05.297 --> 01:11:07.160 thank you so much for the support 01:11:07.160 --> 01:11:08.490 that you give to your loved ones. 01:11:08.490 --> 01:11:09.499 So, thank you. 01:11:09.499 --> 01:11:11.700 Admiral Faller, I'll start with you. 01:11:11.700 --> 01:11:13.113 We've talked about a lot of different groups 01:11:13.113 --> 01:11:16.050 that are engaged in SOUTHCOM. 01:11:16.050 --> 01:11:18.820 But what I'd like to do is dive 01:11:18.820 --> 01:11:20.456 in a little bit to Hezbollah. 01:11:20.456 --> 01:11:24.045 They do have a notable presence in South America, 01:11:24.045 --> 01:11:27.400 and as we saw last year, Argentina and Brazil. 01:11:27.400 --> 01:11:30.303 They both took action against Hezbollah assets 01:11:30.303 --> 01:11:32.950 in their respective countries. 01:11:32.950 --> 01:11:35.156 And we've heard from regional authorities 01:11:35.156 --> 01:11:37.750 that they're aware of Hezbollah's presence 01:11:37.750 --> 01:11:41.650 in the tri-border area of Brazil, Argentina, and Paraguay. 01:11:41.650 --> 01:11:45.440 So can you go a bit further into the threat 01:11:45.440 --> 01:11:48.221 that Hezbollah presents in SOUTHCOM? 01:11:48.221 --> 01:11:51.760 And what are our interests in making sure 01:11:51.760 --> 01:11:53.250 that they are not affecting us? 01:11:53.250 --> 01:11:54.940 What are those national security interests, 01:11:54.940 --> 01:11:56.800 for us and our partners? 01:11:56.800 --> 01:11:57.876 - Hezbollah is present. 01:11:57.876 --> 01:11:59.702 We watch them closely. 01:11:59.702 --> 01:12:02.100 It points to the importance of partnerships 01:12:02.100 --> 01:12:04.120 in the intelligence-sharing relationships 01:12:04.120 --> 01:12:07.390 that we are keen to develop and strengthen even further 01:12:07.390 --> 01:12:09.690 because a lot of what's required 01:12:09.690 --> 01:12:11.899 to monitor them is human intelligence. 01:12:11.899 --> 01:12:12.732 - [Joni] Um-hmm. 01:12:12.732 --> 01:12:15.190 - And those nations know their terrain best. 01:12:15.190 --> 01:12:19.780 Hezbollah's connection to Iran can never be understated. 01:12:19.780 --> 01:12:22.770 Iran is the largest sponsor of state terrorism in the world. 01:12:22.770 --> 01:12:24.800 There is a nexus there that goes back, 01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:27.210 and we watch that working partnership 01:12:27.210 --> 01:12:28.430 with the other combatant commands, 01:12:28.430 --> 01:12:30.550 Defense Intelligence Agency, very, very closely. 01:12:30.550 --> 01:12:33.840 We look for trends, indications, and warning. 01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:36.810 A terror threat anywhere around the world 01:12:36.810 --> 01:12:38.110 could be a threat of our homeland. 01:12:38.110 --> 01:12:40.984 - Um-hmm, and I appreciate you highlighting 01:12:40.984 --> 01:12:44.090 how Iran is interconnected here. 01:12:44.090 --> 01:12:46.440 We talk about some of those near-peer threats 01:12:46.440 --> 01:12:49.950 with China and Russia in the SOUTHCOM AOR, 01:12:49.950 --> 01:12:54.450 but we also need to recognize that Iran is a player as well. 01:12:54.450 --> 01:12:56.565 So, thank you for making that connection. 01:12:56.565 --> 01:12:58.174 Do we have sufficient 01:12:58.174 --> 01:13:01.580 information sharing authorities in place then? 01:13:01.580 --> 01:13:03.040 You've mentioned the need 01:13:03.040 --> 01:13:06.150 to communicate with friends and allies. 01:13:06.150 --> 01:13:08.980 Do we have the right authorities available? 01:13:08.980 --> 01:13:10.370 - Senator, we have to work that 01:13:10.370 --> 01:13:11.980 on a country-by-country basis. 01:13:11.980 --> 01:13:14.740 And that is, it's a key thing that we look at 01:13:14.740 --> 01:13:16.010 when we do our country engagements. 01:13:16.010 --> 01:13:19.080 So the answer is, we never have enough. 01:13:19.080 --> 01:13:20.470 We have countries where we want 01:13:20.470 --> 01:13:21.880 to sign additional agreements. 01:13:21.880 --> 01:13:23.450 We have to get assurances with them 01:13:23.450 --> 01:13:26.090 about what they'll share and who they'll share it will. 01:13:26.090 --> 01:13:28.459 It goes back to my concern about who owns 01:13:28.459 --> 01:13:31.050 the IT infrastructure in a given city 01:13:31.050 --> 01:13:32.650 or a given fusion center. 01:13:32.650 --> 01:13:34.110 And so, we're constantly looking at this. 01:13:34.110 --> 01:13:36.840 I fly Sunday to Brazil for my meeting 01:13:36.840 --> 01:13:38.410 with their new military leadership. 01:13:38.410 --> 01:13:40.830 This will be one of our top areas of discussion. 01:13:40.830 --> 01:13:42.162 I would say that's a very healthy 01:13:42.162 --> 01:13:45.010 intel-sharing relationship that's growing, 01:13:45.010 --> 01:13:47.769 and we've been able to really work with our partners 01:13:47.769 --> 01:13:49.860 because sharing information intelligence 01:13:49.860 --> 01:13:51.470 builds trust, frankly. 01:13:51.470 --> 01:13:54.020 And building trust is what is going to ensure 01:13:54.020 --> 01:13:57.270 our long-term interests in this hemisphere are safeguarded. 01:13:57.270 --> 01:13:58.420 - That is very good, 01:13:58.420 --> 01:14:00.800 and we've also talked about the role 01:14:00.800 --> 01:14:02.354 that special operations plays 01:14:02.354 --> 01:14:05.970 in achieving your objectives in SOUTHCOM. 01:14:05.970 --> 01:14:09.040 Part of that ties back into Hezbollah and others. 01:14:09.040 --> 01:14:11.410 But, what are some of the biggest challenges 01:14:11.410 --> 01:14:14.630 that you'll face with regard to resources or authorities 01:14:14.630 --> 01:14:17.680 when it comes to our special operations 01:14:17.680 --> 01:14:20.180 and how we employ them in SOUTHCOM? 01:14:20.180 --> 01:14:23.600 - We have very small numbers of special operations teams 01:14:23.600 --> 01:14:26.031 that are engaged with partners, 01:14:26.031 --> 01:14:27.890 building their security forces, 01:14:27.890 --> 01:14:29.480 and building it very effectively. 01:14:29.480 --> 01:14:32.410 Those need to be habitual relationships 01:14:32.410 --> 01:14:34.320 that are keyed off of what the partner needs. 01:14:34.320 --> 01:14:36.568 It's also good for our training as well, 01:14:36.568 --> 01:14:40.710 as our partners train in jungles in tough kind of terrain. 01:14:40.710 --> 01:14:43.100 I would say our challenge is maintaining that. 01:14:43.100 --> 01:14:45.278 Our soft forces are under pressure worldwide, 01:14:45.278 --> 01:14:48.580 and as we look at what their deployment ratio is, 01:14:48.580 --> 01:14:50.260 amount of time they're spending away from home 01:14:50.260 --> 01:14:52.736 to the time they spend at home, 01:14:52.736 --> 01:14:55.010 making certain that we get that balance right 01:14:55.010 --> 01:14:56.620 and making certain that we don't decrement 01:14:56.620 --> 01:14:58.690 the small presence that we have, 01:14:58.690 --> 01:15:01.100 which would break trust and really break the training 01:15:01.100 --> 01:15:03.630 and the stability of our partner nation security forces. 01:15:03.630 --> 01:15:06.300 - Thank you, yes, our dwell time is very small. 01:15:06.300 --> 01:15:08.270 We need to work on that. 01:15:08.270 --> 01:15:11.042 Before I move onto the general, 01:15:11.042 --> 01:15:15.010 we have also talked about Gitmo, Guantanamo Bay, 01:15:15.010 --> 01:15:18.010 and right now, we do have Iowa National Guard soldiers 01:15:18.010 --> 01:15:19.940 deployed there as a security force. 01:15:19.940 --> 01:15:24.810 And so, what can we do to ensure that the troops 01:15:24.810 --> 01:15:26.450 that we have that are stationed 01:15:26.450 --> 01:15:28.960 or a rotational force at Gitmo, 01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:31.940 that they are being cared for, that they are safe? 01:15:31.940 --> 01:15:34.100 Not only do we want to make sure that those 01:15:34.100 --> 01:15:37.680 that are held there are kept in a safe environment, 01:15:37.680 --> 01:15:39.320 but also for our troops. 01:15:39.320 --> 01:15:40.610 What more can we be doing? 01:15:40.610 --> 01:15:42.510 Can you explain some of the challenges 01:15:42.510 --> 01:15:45.223 that we have at Guantanamo Bay right now? 01:15:45.223 --> 01:15:47.080 - I had the honor to visit with some 01:15:47.080 --> 01:15:51.658 of your Iowa Guard prisoner guards, detainee guards-- 01:15:51.658 --> 01:15:52.491 - [Joni] Thank you-- 01:15:52.491 --> 01:15:53.417 - Just last weekend, senator. 01:15:53.417 --> 01:15:55.490 And they're doing fabulous work. So, thanks. 01:15:55.490 --> 01:15:56.323 - [Joni] Great, thank you-- 01:15:56.323 --> 01:15:57.410 - For the state for that. 01:15:57.410 --> 01:16:01.730 The facilities were built with about a five-year lifespan, 01:16:01.730 --> 01:16:05.150 and that's been 15, 20 years ago. 01:16:05.150 --> 01:16:07.730 And so, our responsibility is the safe, 01:16:07.730 --> 01:16:09.690 humane treatment of the detainees, 01:16:09.690 --> 01:16:11.530 but also the safety of that guard force. 01:16:11.530 --> 01:16:12.563 So, we have facilities 01:16:12.563 --> 01:16:15.360 that were beyond the ability to repair the roofs, 01:16:15.360 --> 01:16:17.920 where the alarm systems are questionable 01:16:17.920 --> 01:16:20.620 based on the water intrusion. 01:16:20.620 --> 01:16:24.040 And so, when the president's budget is released, 01:16:24.040 --> 01:16:26.930 I expect it to include money 01:16:26.930 --> 01:16:28.850 that would be put for some long-term 01:16:28.850 --> 01:16:30.850 facility upgrades and development. 01:16:30.850 --> 01:16:33.510 We need that for the safety of the guard force 01:16:33.510 --> 01:16:36.420 and for the future of safe detainees. 01:16:36.420 --> 01:16:37.830 - Thank you, I appreciate that. 01:16:37.830 --> 01:16:42.210 And in the few seconds I have remaining, general, as well, 01:16:42.210 --> 01:16:44.620 special operations forces in Africa, 01:16:44.620 --> 01:16:49.410 do we need to maintain our special operators in Africa 01:16:49.410 --> 01:16:51.140 and the work that they are doing? 01:16:51.140 --> 01:16:52.570 - Well, we certainly need to maintain them, 01:16:52.570 --> 01:16:54.150 and we certainly have to take a close look 01:16:54.150 --> 01:16:56.357 at how we employ and deploy them, 01:16:56.357 --> 01:16:57.620 and what their schedules are. 01:16:57.620 --> 01:17:00.550 And we continue to reevaluate that all the time. 01:17:00.550 --> 01:17:01.480 The bottom line is yes, 01:17:01.480 --> 01:17:03.640 but I would say what we really need in AFRICOM 01:17:03.640 --> 01:17:07.012 are some predictable general purpose forces 01:17:07.012 --> 01:17:09.920 that can do things with regular armies 01:17:09.920 --> 01:17:13.710 on a somewhat episodic but yet predictable basis. 01:17:13.710 --> 01:17:15.520 - [Joni] Very good, thank you, general, I appreciate it. 01:17:15.520 --> 01:17:16.412 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:17:16.412 --> 01:17:18.023 - Thank you, senator. 01:17:19.865 --> 01:17:20.698 Senator, 01:17:25.100 --> 01:17:26.120 Senator Kaine. 01:17:26.120 --> 01:17:29.310 - Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you to our witnesses. 01:17:29.310 --> 01:17:31.710 The chair and ranking indicated that a unifier 01:17:31.710 --> 01:17:34.720 in your two regions is that you're under resourced. 01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:37.200 I think another unifier is in both your regions 01:17:37.200 --> 01:17:40.670 you have a real cross disciplinary non-siloed focus 01:17:40.670 --> 01:17:42.610 of not just military assets 01:17:42.610 --> 01:17:45.460 but the entire spectrum of what the U.S. can do. 01:17:45.460 --> 01:17:48.260 And I think that's something about SOUTHCOM and AFRICOM 01:17:48.260 --> 01:17:49.860 that I really appreciate. 01:17:49.860 --> 01:17:51.770 Admiral Faller let me start with you. 01:17:51.770 --> 01:17:54.640 The discussion about Venezuela is a really important one 01:17:54.640 --> 01:17:57.700 and if the world wants to see a democracy 01:17:57.700 --> 01:17:59.410 versus dictatorship challenge, 01:17:59.410 --> 01:18:04.160 Venezuela is just like the perfect test case for circa 2019, 01:18:04.160 --> 01:18:06.530 what do democracies care for 01:18:06.530 --> 01:18:08.370 and what do dictatorships care for? 01:18:08.370 --> 01:18:11.360 The Venezuelan government of Maduro is supported 01:18:11.360 --> 01:18:13.710 by Russia, Cuba, and Iran, 01:18:13.710 --> 01:18:17.270 and they're enabling him to do all kinds of horrible things 01:18:17.270 --> 01:18:20.168 economically and in violation of human rights, et cetera. 01:18:20.168 --> 01:18:22.810 The Guaido interim government, 01:18:22.810 --> 01:18:24.470 which has a constitutional claim 01:18:24.470 --> 01:18:25.870 that in the vacancy of a president, 01:18:25.870 --> 01:18:28.156 the speaker of the legislative assembly becomes 01:18:28.156 --> 01:18:29.940 an interim president is supported 01:18:29.940 --> 01:18:31.973 by the United States and the EU. 01:18:33.420 --> 01:18:36.090 You really can see what the difference 01:18:36.090 --> 01:18:38.900 between democracy and the aspirations 01:18:38.900 --> 01:18:40.820 of democratic governments and dictatorships, 01:18:40.820 --> 01:18:43.500 and what they care about writ very clearly 01:18:43.500 --> 01:18:45.270 in the Venezuelan circumstance now. 01:18:45.270 --> 01:18:47.400 But here's a reality, 01:18:47.400 --> 01:18:49.460 we're dealing with regional institutions 01:18:49.460 --> 01:18:50.880 like the OAS, for example. 01:18:50.880 --> 01:18:53.740 In the OAS, every nation has one vote. 01:18:53.740 --> 01:18:55.800 The U.S. has a hard time getting the OAS 01:18:56.930 --> 01:19:00.840 to firmly come out against the Maduro government 01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:03.968 because many Caribbean nations still support 01:19:03.968 --> 01:19:05.600 the Maduro government. 01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:08.543 They have been bribed to do so with low-priced oil. 01:19:10.080 --> 01:19:11.870 But it's very hard for us to do 01:19:11.870 --> 01:19:13.130 something like this on our own 01:19:13.130 --> 01:19:15.430 and when a principal regional institution 01:19:15.430 --> 01:19:18.250 like the OAS isn't completely with us, 01:19:18.250 --> 01:19:20.860 it's hard to put the appropriate pressure on. 01:19:20.860 --> 01:19:23.090 And I guess the point that I wanna make is 01:19:23.090 --> 01:19:25.700 hard to beat something with nothing. 01:19:25.700 --> 01:19:28.220 The Chinese and Russians have been investing 01:19:28.220 --> 01:19:32.700 so heavily in Venezuela, tens of billions of dollars 01:19:32.700 --> 01:19:34.070 over and over and over again. 01:19:34.070 --> 01:19:35.820 These Caribbean nations, 01:19:35.820 --> 01:19:38.580 they might feel culturally closer to the United States, 01:19:38.580 --> 01:19:40.420 but they are getting, 01:19:40.420 --> 01:19:42.821 they're gettin' something from Venezuela that they need. 01:19:42.821 --> 01:19:44.610 And your point about we need to be 01:19:44.610 --> 01:19:46.930 on the field is really, really important, 01:19:46.930 --> 01:19:48.870 and as I talked to leaders in this region, 01:19:48.870 --> 01:19:51.320 they say we would so much more 01:19:51.320 --> 01:19:52.800 like to do work with you guys. 01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:54.270 We are culturally connected, 01:19:54.270 --> 01:19:56.904 and we're all Americans, you know, 01:19:56.904 --> 01:20:00.690 but the other guys are there and present and investing. 01:20:00.690 --> 01:20:02.050 And even if we have suspicions, 01:20:02.050 --> 01:20:04.460 they're there with resources and you aren't. 01:20:04.460 --> 01:20:06.723 And so I think that's an important lesson. 01:20:06.723 --> 01:20:08.550 I wanna ask about the Northern Triangle. 01:20:08.550 --> 01:20:10.556 It's a resource question as well. 01:20:10.556 --> 01:20:13.080 The Alliance for Progress has been in initiative 01:20:13.080 --> 01:20:14.640 the last three years to invest money, 01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:16.990 and security, and economic development assistance 01:20:16.990 --> 01:20:20.202 in the three nations in the Northern Triangle. 01:20:20.202 --> 01:20:22.150 Would it be your recommendation, 01:20:22.150 --> 01:20:25.290 so long as we can make those investments smart, 01:20:25.290 --> 01:20:26.540 would be your recommendation 01:20:26.540 --> 01:20:28.360 that if we can improve the security 01:20:28.360 --> 01:20:32.160 and economic development arc in those three countries 01:20:32.160 --> 01:20:34.993 that that would help us deal with some of the challenges 01:20:34.993 --> 01:20:36.543 that SOUTHCOM has to deal with? 01:20:37.490 --> 01:20:38.740 - Senator, the week before last, 01:20:38.740 --> 01:20:41.220 I visited projects in all three countries 01:20:41.220 --> 01:20:43.980 that were a direct result of the investments 01:20:43.980 --> 01:20:44.813 that you just cited. 01:20:44.813 --> 01:20:49.813 Those projects were USAID, state INL, 01:20:50.180 --> 01:20:53.300 and a small footprint of Department of Defense 01:20:53.300 --> 01:20:56.070 working side-by-side to bring security 01:20:56.070 --> 01:20:58.530 with local policing, and jobs, 01:20:58.530 --> 01:21:03.033 and host nation investment in a way that stabilized 01:21:03.033 --> 01:21:06.870 some of the worst neighborhoods, and showed hope. 01:21:06.870 --> 01:21:08.980 We talked to citizens that lived there, 01:21:08.980 --> 01:21:10.510 we saw the results. 01:21:10.510 --> 01:21:12.280 And I think consistent investment 01:21:12.280 --> 01:21:14.910 in accordance with our laws is a good thing in that area. 01:21:14.910 --> 01:21:17.640 Investment, a dollar there is gonna save lives 01:21:17.640 --> 01:21:20.070 and result in better security here at home. 01:21:20.070 --> 01:21:21.290 - That's really important, 01:21:21.290 --> 01:21:23.030 the funds for those initiatives have been 01:21:23.030 --> 01:21:24.960 pretty dramatically slashed the last years. 01:21:24.960 --> 01:21:26.660 We don't know the what the budget submission will be 01:21:26.660 --> 01:21:29.150 that we'll get hopefully by the end of the month, 01:21:29.150 --> 01:21:31.050 but I think it's penny wise and pound foolish 01:21:31.050 --> 01:21:33.320 to cut development and security assistance, 01:21:33.320 --> 01:21:36.040 and then complain about people coming to our border. 01:21:36.040 --> 01:21:37.330 We need to help build 01:21:37.330 --> 01:21:39.630 and support economies there and security there 01:21:39.630 --> 01:21:41.390 if we want people to not leave their own countries. 01:21:41.390 --> 01:21:43.370 Let me quickly, General Waldhauser, to you, 01:21:43.370 --> 01:21:45.590 on page five of your submitted statement, 01:21:45.590 --> 01:21:47.490 you write in the fight against Boko Haram 01:21:47.490 --> 01:21:50.240 and ISIS West Africa, we operate with partners 01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:53.420 in the Africa Union and force multinational task force. 01:21:53.420 --> 01:21:56.350 The Fiscal Year '18 NDAA included a provision 01:21:56.350 --> 01:22:00.187 in section 1264 that required the administration 01:22:00.187 --> 01:22:02.780 to provide an initial report and subsequent updates 01:22:02.780 --> 01:22:04.580 on the legal and policy frameworks 01:22:04.580 --> 01:22:06.023 for use of military force. 01:22:06.023 --> 01:22:08.340 I'm interested, the initial report, 01:22:08.340 --> 01:22:09.910 which was submitted March 2018, 01:22:09.910 --> 01:22:11.847 I'd like to put that in the record, if I could, 01:22:11.847 --> 01:22:16.040 it makes no mention of ISIS West Africa or Boko Haram 01:22:16.040 --> 01:22:17.740 as an associated force. 01:22:17.740 --> 01:22:18.573 And as far as I know, 01:22:18.573 --> 01:22:19.900 there's not been an updated report 01:22:19.900 --> 01:22:21.170 submitted to this committee, 01:22:21.170 --> 01:22:24.110 as would be required if any new determination were made. 01:22:24.110 --> 01:22:26.980 Has Boko Haram or ISIS West Africa been determined 01:22:26.980 --> 01:22:28.120 to be an associated force 01:22:28.120 --> 01:22:31.890 within the either the 2001 or 2002 AUMF? 01:22:31.890 --> 01:22:33.170 - Senator, first of all, 01:22:33.170 --> 01:22:35.540 we do not have offensive strike capabilities 01:22:35.540 --> 01:22:39.170 or authorities in those countries, so we can't strike. 01:22:39.170 --> 01:22:41.320 We can strike in Somalia, we can strike in Libya, 01:22:41.320 --> 01:22:43.860 but not in Nigeria, Cameroon, Chad, and the like. 01:22:43.860 --> 01:22:45.440 So we don't have authorities there. 01:22:45.440 --> 01:22:47.450 Now, ISIS West Africa has grown. 01:22:47.450 --> 01:22:50.010 They go by different names every once in a while, 01:22:50.010 --> 01:22:51.220 but they have grown in numbers. 01:22:51.220 --> 01:22:52.600 They're now probably in the neighborhood 01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:53.870 of around three to 4,000. 01:22:53.870 --> 01:22:55.830 That's the best estimate that we have. 01:22:55.830 --> 01:22:57.030 They have been very aggressive 01:22:57.030 --> 01:22:58.600 over the summer into this year. 01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:00.670 They now have taken large pieces 01:23:00.670 --> 01:23:02.194 of real estate in northern Nigeria, 01:23:02.194 --> 01:23:04.370 and I think, of the two right now, 01:23:04.370 --> 01:23:06.050 they're the one that we have the most concern about 01:23:06.050 --> 01:23:08.460 because we're not sure what their intentions would be 01:23:08.460 --> 01:23:10.381 with regards to outside the region. 01:23:10.381 --> 01:23:12.603 Boko Haram probably around a thousand, 01:23:12.603 --> 01:23:14.270 bottom line though, senator, 01:23:14.270 --> 01:23:16.630 I can't say for sure whether they've been designated or not. 01:23:16.630 --> 01:23:18.380 I know that we don't strike them. 01:23:18.380 --> 01:23:20.040 - Do you, and when you say you don't strike, 01:23:20.040 --> 01:23:21.620 do you also include you don't strike 01:23:21.620 --> 01:23:24.240 under a collective self-defense doctrine? 01:23:24.240 --> 01:23:28.230 - No, if we are accompanying, that's the whole key here now, 01:23:28.230 --> 01:23:29.221 if we are accompanying, 01:23:29.221 --> 01:23:30.490 we have the inherent right 01:23:30.490 --> 01:23:32.420 of self-defense and collective self-defense. 01:23:32.420 --> 01:23:33.590 If we are not accompanying, 01:23:33.590 --> 01:23:36.460 which we have not done at all in Nigeria, 01:23:36.460 --> 01:23:38.500 and we haven't accompanied inside 01:23:38.500 --> 01:23:40.220 other places for quite some time, 01:23:40.220 --> 01:23:42.330 we do not have collective self-defense 01:23:42.330 --> 01:23:46.230 because I haven't designated it, and we don't use it. 01:23:46.230 --> 01:23:47.063 - [Tim] All right, thank you. 01:23:47.063 --> 01:23:47.896 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:23:47.896 --> 01:23:48.930 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Kaine. 01:23:48.930 --> 01:23:49.993 Senator Hawley. 01:23:50.850 --> 01:23:52.240 - Thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here. 01:23:52.240 --> 01:23:54.050 Thank you again for your exemplary service 01:23:54.050 --> 01:23:55.950 and for all those under your command. 01:23:55.950 --> 01:23:57.760 General, let me start with you. 01:23:57.760 --> 01:23:59.800 The National Defense Strategy, of course, 01:23:59.800 --> 01:24:01.780 re-emphasizes great power competition, 01:24:01.780 --> 01:24:03.370 and we talked a lot about today, 01:24:03.370 --> 01:24:06.230 you've mentioned to a great date agree in your testimony. 01:24:06.230 --> 01:24:10.038 I wanna ask you about China, in particular, in your AOR. 01:24:10.038 --> 01:24:12.030 What can you tell us to what degree 01:24:12.030 --> 01:24:15.010 and in what ways are we continuing to shift focus 01:24:15.010 --> 01:24:18.780 and resources to engage in this great power competition 01:24:18.780 --> 01:24:22.970 and counter Chinese influence in your AOR? 01:24:22.970 --> 01:24:25.960 And I'm thinking in particular of China's growing influence, 01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:27.730 it's base in Djibouti, 01:24:27.730 --> 01:24:29.110 I've seen some estimates that there may be 01:24:29.110 --> 01:24:34.110 as many as 25, 27 Chinese bases across the continent. 01:24:34.970 --> 01:24:35.987 What can you tell us about that 01:24:35.987 --> 01:24:37.520 and what we are doing to counter 01:24:37.520 --> 01:24:39.450 this growing influence there? 01:24:39.450 --> 01:24:40.350 - Well, thank you senator. 01:24:40.350 --> 01:24:43.500 Let me try to take that from the 50,000-foot level. 01:24:43.500 --> 01:24:44.750 And first of all, just emphasize, 01:24:44.750 --> 01:24:47.680 China has one overseas base in Djibouti. 01:24:47.680 --> 01:24:50.320 They participate in UN peacekeeping operations, 01:24:50.320 --> 01:24:52.560 places like Mali, places like Sudan, 01:24:52.560 --> 01:24:54.220 but they do not have other bases. 01:24:54.220 --> 01:24:56.100 Is that in their future? 01:24:56.100 --> 01:24:57.760 That's perhaps. 01:24:57.760 --> 01:25:00.720 What I would say is from the African perspective is 01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:02.470 China has been there for quite some time. 01:25:02.470 --> 01:25:03.740 They're in the process of building 01:25:03.740 --> 01:25:06.000 over 3,800 miles of worth of railroads. 01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:09.890 Railroads tied primarily to areas of mineral extraction, 01:25:09.890 --> 01:25:12.550 which again can then take this goods to a port somewhere. 01:25:12.550 --> 01:25:15.116 So they're are heavily invested and heavily involved. 01:25:15.116 --> 01:25:18.340 From the African perspective, they, the Africans, 01:25:18.340 --> 01:25:20.450 do not wanna be in the middle of this. 01:25:20.450 --> 01:25:21.283 They don't view it 01:25:21.283 --> 01:25:23.800 as we either choose the U.S. or we choose China, 01:25:23.800 --> 01:25:25.760 and they don't wanna be in the middle 01:25:25.760 --> 01:25:27.850 of that particular engagement. 01:25:27.850 --> 01:25:29.010 I think that one of the things 01:25:29.010 --> 01:25:31.330 that we do from the DOD perspective is 01:25:31.330 --> 01:25:33.986 we try to just show, just be good partners. 01:25:33.986 --> 01:25:37.420 When Secretary Tillerson was there a year or so ago, 01:25:37.420 --> 01:25:39.010 or whenever the visit took place, 01:25:39.010 --> 01:25:40.730 I believe it was a year or so ago, you know, 01:25:40.730 --> 01:25:43.672 he talked about we need to work with the governments 01:25:43.672 --> 01:25:46.760 of those countries to make sure the arrangements they make 01:25:46.760 --> 01:25:47.960 are in their best interest. 01:25:47.960 --> 01:25:50.180 And you had leaders from the African Union, 01:25:50.180 --> 01:25:53.030 you've had Paul Kagame is another one that, you know, 01:25:53.030 --> 01:25:55.130 that the African governments will make 01:25:55.130 --> 01:25:57.140 their decisions based on their best interests 01:25:57.140 --> 01:25:58.950 and they're capable of doing that. 01:25:58.950 --> 01:25:59.810 On the other hand, 01:25:59.810 --> 01:26:02.331 Chinese efforts in terms of selling equipment 01:26:02.331 --> 01:26:04.980 and some of the arrangements that have been made, 01:26:04.980 --> 01:26:07.080 there's been some blowback from various countries. 01:26:07.080 --> 01:26:08.370 Sierra Leone, for example, 01:26:08.370 --> 01:26:10.300 is walking away from an airport agreement 01:26:10.300 --> 01:26:12.419 that was supposed to be built by the Chinese. 01:26:12.419 --> 01:26:15.350 The Kenyans, for example have very, very, 01:26:15.350 --> 01:26:17.090 have problems with the Chinese equipment 01:26:17.090 --> 01:26:18.630 that's been sent to them. 01:26:18.630 --> 01:26:21.440 So again, the bottom line is 01:26:21.440 --> 01:26:23.696 in the AFRICOM OAR, China is there. 01:26:23.696 --> 01:26:25.890 The final thing I would say in order 01:26:25.890 --> 01:26:27.150 that this issue of influence 01:26:27.150 --> 01:26:28.870 and how we wanna be the best partners, 01:26:28.870 --> 01:26:31.170 the Chinese work hard at developing 01:26:31.170 --> 01:26:34.470 and maintaining the relationship with the senior officials 01:26:34.470 --> 01:26:37.940 of the governments inside the African continent. 01:26:37.940 --> 01:26:39.220 We are very grateful, for example, 01:26:39.220 --> 01:26:40.980 of Senator Inhofe and his team and his visits 01:26:40.980 --> 01:26:42.290 that they make there. 01:26:42.290 --> 01:26:43.703 But I read an article the other day 01:26:43.703 --> 01:26:46.330 that talked about in the last decade, 01:26:46.330 --> 01:26:48.410 80 senior level, we're talking minister level and above, 01:26:48.410 --> 01:26:50.080 to include the president of China visits 01:26:50.080 --> 01:26:52.120 on the African continent, that's a lot. 01:26:52.120 --> 01:26:53.124 And moreover, since 1990, 01:26:53.124 --> 01:26:56.030 their foreign minister, his first trip is every year 01:26:56.030 --> 01:26:58.650 in January is to a country in Africa 01:26:58.650 --> 01:27:00.010 just to see how they're doing. 01:27:00.010 --> 01:27:02.040 So I would just say the whole of government approach, 01:27:02.040 --> 01:27:03.380 if we wanna maintain influence, 01:27:03.380 --> 01:27:05.744 we have to kind of up our engagement and develop 01:27:05.744 --> 01:27:08.847 and work at the relationship part of this. 01:27:08.847 --> 01:27:12.060 - You testified, I think, last March to a House committee, 01:27:12.060 --> 01:27:14.479 March of 2018, that you expected that China would, 01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:18.180 we should expect an increasing number of bases, 01:27:18.180 --> 01:27:19.420 outright military bases. 01:27:19.420 --> 01:27:21.760 Do you think is that still your assessment? 01:27:21.760 --> 01:27:23.070 - Well, I think the, first of all, 01:27:23.070 --> 01:27:24.530 the Belt and Road Initiative is 01:27:24.530 --> 01:27:26.470 what is driving all of this. 01:27:26.470 --> 01:27:28.130 And I think what the Chinese are doing is 01:27:28.130 --> 01:27:29.960 they are taking a lot of lessons learned 01:27:29.960 --> 01:27:33.190 and they are learning a lot from their first overseas base 01:27:33.190 --> 01:27:34.350 that they have in Djibouti. 01:27:34.350 --> 01:27:35.830 This is not an easy thing to do. 01:27:35.830 --> 01:27:37.110 The United States is very good at it. 01:27:37.110 --> 01:27:39.230 They watch what we do, but they are learning this. 01:27:39.230 --> 01:27:41.310 They certainly have their eyes on other facilities. 01:27:41.310 --> 01:27:43.030 Ports, for example, are a key 01:27:43.030 --> 01:27:48.030 to what would facilitate their, not only mineral extraction, 01:27:48.050 --> 01:27:49.760 but their markets for their goods to come 01:27:49.760 --> 01:27:51.880 into the continent as well. 01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:56.880 I mean, they view this large youth ball as the population, 01:27:56.900 --> 01:27:59.070 the demographics, which we haven't talked about today, 01:27:59.070 --> 01:28:00.300 but it's in the testimony, 01:28:00.300 --> 01:28:01.860 they view a large consumer class 01:28:01.860 --> 01:28:03.870 as a place where they can sell their goods 01:28:03.870 --> 01:28:04.730 sometime in the future. 01:28:04.730 --> 01:28:08.040 So although Djibouti is the only base, 01:28:08.040 --> 01:28:11.070 they certainly are looking at other options. 01:28:11.070 --> 01:28:13.130 - Let me just ask you more generally 01:28:13.130 --> 01:28:15.460 about our European allies 01:28:15.460 --> 01:28:18.800 and their help or lack thereof in your AOR. 01:28:18.800 --> 01:28:21.370 What things should we be doing 01:28:21.370 --> 01:28:25.000 in order to encourage our European allies to, 01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:27.170 in this era of renewed great power competition, 01:28:27.170 --> 01:28:30.150 to be helping us with our strategic objectives 01:28:30.150 --> 01:28:32.220 in your area under your command? 01:28:32.220 --> 01:28:33.670 - From the AFRICOM perspective, 01:28:33.670 --> 01:28:36.230 the European Union does a lot on the continent 01:28:36.230 --> 01:28:37.630 with regards to training. 01:28:37.630 --> 01:28:41.420 So there are European Union training missions in Mali, 01:28:41.420 --> 01:28:44.517 there are European training missions inside Somalia. 01:28:44.517 --> 01:28:46.240 And those are just two examples. 01:28:46.240 --> 01:28:49.700 And we work closely with them because we are one, 01:28:49.700 --> 01:28:51.500 for example, I've indicated in Somalia, 01:28:51.500 --> 01:28:54.510 we are one of a group of organizations 01:28:54.510 --> 01:28:55.810 and countries that's trying to, 01:28:55.810 --> 01:28:57.460 you know, make things right there. 01:28:57.460 --> 01:28:59.520 The European Union is a big player 01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:00.830 and we coordinate with them. 01:29:00.830 --> 01:29:03.936 I talk with their leadership all of the time, and we, 01:29:03.936 --> 01:29:06.990 in our effort to coordinate the training activities 01:29:06.990 --> 01:29:08.250 in a place like Somalia, 01:29:08.250 --> 01:29:09.870 the European Union is a big player. 01:29:09.870 --> 01:29:12.240 They do a lot and they, by the way, 01:29:12.240 --> 01:29:13.660 are the ones who pay the stipends 01:29:13.660 --> 01:29:15.070 for the Somalia National Army. 01:29:15.070 --> 01:29:17.893 They put a lot of money into Somalia, no doubt about it. 01:29:19.136 --> 01:29:20.170 - [Josh] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:29:20.170 --> 01:29:21.823 - [Jim] Thank you, Senator Hawley. 01:29:23.780 --> 01:29:27.143 Senator Blumenthal and Senator Reed presiding. 01:29:29.390 --> 01:29:31.430 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:29:31.430 --> 01:29:32.740 Thank you both for your service 01:29:32.740 --> 01:29:37.150 and for being here today in critical commands 01:29:37.150 --> 01:29:41.140 that are perhaps less in the spotlight, 01:29:41.140 --> 01:29:45.490 but no less important than any of the others 01:29:45.490 --> 01:29:50.090 that we oversee, both of them absolutely critical 01:29:50.090 --> 01:29:51.420 to our national security. 01:29:51.420 --> 01:29:54.060 And so thank you, and the men and women 01:29:54.060 --> 01:29:59.003 who serve with you for your service to our nation. 01:30:01.160 --> 01:30:03.300 I wanna begin on the topic 01:30:03.300 --> 01:30:05.830 of military partnership programs, 01:30:05.830 --> 01:30:07.980 also perhaps less visible to the public, 01:30:07.980 --> 01:30:09.240 but also very important. 01:30:09.240 --> 01:30:11.920 And both of you, I think, 01:30:11.920 --> 01:30:16.520 have endorsed the State Partnership Programs, 01:30:16.520 --> 01:30:20.755 the International Military Education Training program, 01:30:20.755 --> 01:30:23.220 as General Votel testified on Tuesday, 01:30:23.220 --> 01:30:26.150 are he said dollar for dollar 01:30:26.150 --> 01:30:28.700 the most effective funding that CENTCOM receives 01:30:28.700 --> 01:30:32.070 from a strategic perspective. 01:30:32.070 --> 01:30:34.290 And the Connecticut National Guard, 01:30:34.290 --> 01:30:36.655 as a matter of fact, is an active participant 01:30:36.655 --> 01:30:38.870 in the State Partnership Program 01:30:38.870 --> 01:30:41.033 and currently partners with Uruguay. 01:30:41.900 --> 01:30:44.610 Next year is the 20th anniversary of this partnership, 01:30:44.610 --> 01:30:48.640 and to date the Connecticut National Guard has conducted 01:30:48.640 --> 01:30:53.250 over 110 mutually beneficial exchanges 01:30:53.250 --> 01:30:55.220 with their Uruguayan partners. 01:30:55.220 --> 01:30:58.070 In April, the Connecticut National Guard will send 01:30:58.070 --> 01:30:59.460 40 soldiers and airmen 01:30:59.460 --> 01:31:04.460 on a Connecticut Air National Guard C-130 H to Uruguay, 01:31:04.540 --> 01:31:09.540 marking our largest contingent to Uruguay to date. 01:31:10.740 --> 01:31:15.740 This is an enormously educational beneficial experience 01:31:16.790 --> 01:31:20.610 for them, for the Uruguayans, and it is repeated 01:31:20.610 --> 01:31:23.040 again and again and again all around the world. 01:31:23.040 --> 01:31:26.590 And this kind of relationship, I think, 01:31:26.590 --> 01:31:28.930 is extremely important to both countries, 01:31:28.930 --> 01:31:31.210 to us and other countries around the world. 01:31:31.210 --> 01:31:33.060 So thank you for your support. 01:31:33.060 --> 01:31:38.060 And General Vaughan, our tag was here this morning 01:31:38.900 --> 01:31:40.953 and we had a chance to meet with him. 01:31:42.000 --> 01:31:44.920 I wanna ask you General Waldhauser, 01:31:44.920 --> 01:31:49.920 I was searching for the exact statement you made 01:31:49.990 --> 01:31:54.669 about a year before the Niger tragedy, 01:31:54.669 --> 01:31:57.400 if I may put it that way, 01:31:57.400 --> 01:32:02.400 about the lack of sufficient intelligence resources 01:32:03.670 --> 01:32:06.010 devoted to your command, 01:32:06.010 --> 01:32:09.040 particularly to that area of your command. 01:32:09.040 --> 01:32:10.770 And I note in your testimony 01:32:12.320 --> 01:32:14.340 you say over a three-year period, 01:32:14.340 --> 01:32:19.340 U.S. Africa Command has increased 01:32:19.420 --> 01:32:23.530 Nigerian counter IED capability, 01:32:23.530 --> 01:32:26.900 as well as intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance, 01:32:26.900 --> 01:32:29.943 asset sustainment, maintenance, and operation. 01:32:31.750 --> 01:32:35.210 Your estimate as to the dearth and deficit 01:32:35.210 --> 01:32:38.140 of intelligence in that part of the world 01:32:38.140 --> 01:32:43.140 was striking to me before the Niger incident. 01:32:44.810 --> 01:32:48.420 How much improvement has there been in the investment 01:32:48.420 --> 01:32:50.800 in intelligence and that part of the world? 01:32:50.800 --> 01:32:53.007 - Senator, I think the best way to answer that question is, 01:32:53.007 --> 01:32:55.090 you know, our mission there really is 01:32:55.090 --> 01:32:56.090 to work with our partners. 01:32:56.090 --> 01:32:57.660 And in this case it's the French. 01:32:57.660 --> 01:33:00.110 And I would say over the last year that our relationship 01:33:00.110 --> 01:33:01.970 with the French to include intelligence sharing 01:33:01.970 --> 01:33:06.530 has really gone to as good as I've seen it. 01:33:06.530 --> 01:33:09.107 And so, you know, the French have the lead in that area, 01:33:09.107 --> 01:33:11.450 and we support partners and in that particular case 01:33:11.450 --> 01:33:15.340 in the Sahel area of northern Mali the Niger area, 01:33:15.340 --> 01:33:17.690 they have the lead and it's our job to support them. 01:33:17.690 --> 01:33:20.820 So we kind of used the phrase it's African led, 01:33:20.820 --> 01:33:22.810 French assisted, and U.S. supported. 01:33:22.810 --> 01:33:26.367 And what I would say is that our intelligence professionals 01:33:26.367 --> 01:33:29.600 as they synchronize what we bring and what they bring 01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:31.830 is something that has really added to our ability 01:33:31.830 --> 01:33:34.700 to understand the situation there over the last year. 01:33:34.700 --> 01:33:36.970 - Do you think now that it is 01:33:40.190 --> 01:33:42.770 satisfactory, adequate, excellent? 01:33:42.770 --> 01:33:43.890 How would you characterize it? 01:33:43.890 --> 01:33:46.290 You said as good as you've seen, 01:33:46.290 --> 01:33:48.730 but that was not very good in the year 01:33:48.730 --> 01:33:50.600 before the Niger incident. 01:33:50.600 --> 01:33:52.020 - So I would use the words, 01:33:52.020 --> 01:33:54.040 as you said, satisfactory and adequate. 01:33:54.040 --> 01:33:56.450 We're never going to have the ISR total 01:33:56.450 --> 01:33:57.966 that we need to include the human intelligence 01:33:57.966 --> 01:34:00.620 that goes into places like that, 01:34:00.620 --> 01:34:04.110 but for our support and for what our mission is, 01:34:04.110 --> 01:34:07.788 it's adequate ISR now, as we utilize our partners, 01:34:07.788 --> 01:34:10.814 and how we train and how we assist 01:34:10.814 --> 01:34:13.293 the Nigerian forces as well. 01:34:15.430 --> 01:34:17.690 - Would you say, Admiral Faller, 01:34:17.690 --> 01:34:19.930 that that's true in your command as well, 01:34:19.930 --> 01:34:21.570 that you are satisfied that there are 01:34:21.570 --> 01:34:24.900 sufficient ISR intelligence surveillance 01:34:24.900 --> 01:34:26.750 and reconnaissance resources devoted? 01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:31.430 - Senator, we're constantly looking at this. 01:34:31.430 --> 01:34:33.900 I think we do have gaps. 01:34:33.900 --> 01:34:35.270 We mitigate those gaps 01:34:35.270 --> 01:34:37.320 with different sources of intelligence. 01:34:37.320 --> 01:34:39.720 We are deficient in our ISR 01:34:39.720 --> 01:34:41.953 for the counter narcotics mission. 01:34:43.630 --> 01:34:45.300 - [Richard] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:34:45.300 --> 01:34:46.520 - [Jack] On behalf of Chairman Inhofe, 01:34:46.520 --> 01:34:48.027 Senator Blackburn please. 01:34:50.670 --> 01:34:53.330 - Thank you for being here today 01:34:53.330 --> 01:34:57.920 and we look forward to a closed session with you. 01:34:57.920 --> 01:35:00.850 I wanna come back to something each of you have mentioned, 01:35:00.850 --> 01:35:03.100 but we've really cannot talk that much about 01:35:03.100 --> 01:35:06.130 and that is the Telkom issues 01:35:06.130 --> 01:35:08.737 that are in each of your AOR, 01:35:08.737 --> 01:35:11.250 and the participation of China, 01:35:11.250 --> 01:35:16.250 Huawei, ZTE, and their relationship with the Russians. 01:35:19.620 --> 01:35:24.500 And the chairman mentioned earlier his concern 01:35:24.500 --> 01:35:27.950 about how China is putting their fingers 01:35:27.950 --> 01:35:30.810 into every area when it comes to, 01:35:30.810 --> 01:35:35.400 not only the ISR but the communications component, 01:35:35.400 --> 01:35:37.040 building out these networks. 01:35:37.040 --> 01:35:38.080 And he mentioned he didn't know 01:35:38.080 --> 01:35:40.000 where the money came from. 01:35:40.000 --> 01:35:43.880 And general, I'd be interested to hear from you, 01:35:43.880 --> 01:35:48.140 when you talk about China and how they are advancing, 01:35:48.140 --> 01:35:51.760 how much of the bankrolling of this comes from Russia 01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:53.263 or do you all know? 01:35:54.370 --> 01:35:55.870 - Well, ma'am, the best way to answer that is 01:35:55.870 --> 01:35:58.860 I think that when the Chinese come to a country with a plan, 01:35:58.860 --> 01:36:01.390 whether it's to build railroad, infrastructure, 01:36:01.390 --> 01:36:03.450 bridges and the like, they come with a full plan. 01:36:03.450 --> 01:36:07.744 They come with the charts to do it, 01:36:07.744 --> 01:36:09.780 they come with the money to do it, 01:36:09.780 --> 01:36:11.540 they'll bring the workers to do it, 01:36:11.540 --> 01:36:13.480 and it's just kind of a one-stop one shop. 01:36:13.480 --> 01:36:14.670 - Does the money come from Russia, primarily? 01:36:14.670 --> 01:36:16.533 - This is Chinese now. 01:36:17.430 --> 01:36:19.750 In fact, how I would answer that is kind of a, 01:36:19.750 --> 01:36:22.040 not to be, kind of antidotal way, 01:36:22.040 --> 01:36:23.375 but recently in the elections 01:36:23.375 --> 01:36:26.680 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, 01:36:26.680 --> 01:36:30.630 where Joseph Kabila went out of office, 01:36:30.630 --> 01:36:33.990 one of his opponents said that the Chinese bring the money, 01:36:33.990 --> 01:36:35.772 and the Russians bring the muscle. 01:36:35.772 --> 01:36:36.605 - [Marsha] Got it. 01:36:36.605 --> 01:36:38.330 - So I think that's a good way to try to illustrate 01:36:38.330 --> 01:36:40.270 kind of where these two different countries are 01:36:40.270 --> 01:36:41.970 when it comes to their engagement. 01:36:42.820 --> 01:36:45.430 - Okay, let me ask you this, 01:36:45.430 --> 01:36:50.430 when we look at what has happened with with the Chinese 01:36:52.170 --> 01:36:57.030 and with their access into the Telkom area, 01:36:57.030 --> 01:37:00.303 and as we look at artificial intelligence and 5G, 01:37:02.990 --> 01:37:06.240 how do you see Huawei and their participation? 01:37:06.240 --> 01:37:10.610 And how is that going to affect the build out in your AORs? 01:37:10.610 --> 01:37:13.280 And admiral, if you wanna go at it first 01:37:13.280 --> 01:37:14.793 and then the general? 01:37:16.370 --> 01:37:17.610 - It's concerning. 01:37:17.610 --> 01:37:21.530 The extent to which China would own 01:37:22.370 --> 01:37:24.979 the IT infrastructure of a country, 01:37:24.979 --> 01:37:28.090 their intelligence or fusion centers, 01:37:28.090 --> 01:37:29.510 would affect our relationship 01:37:29.510 --> 01:37:31.382 and our ability to share information. 01:37:31.382 --> 01:37:33.311 - Do they understand that you will not share information 01:37:33.311 --> 01:37:37.283 with them if it is going over Huawei or ZTE? 01:37:37.283 --> 01:37:38.833 - We've had frank discussions, senator, about this. 01:37:38.833 --> 01:37:40.843 - [Marsha] Very frank discussions, okay. 01:37:42.550 --> 01:37:44.210 - Senator, the way I would answer that is 01:37:44.210 --> 01:37:46.480 we obviously have some unique challenges in Djibouti. 01:37:46.480 --> 01:37:47.970 I mean the Chinese base is 01:37:47.970 --> 01:37:50.940 several miles away from where we're located. 01:37:50.940 --> 01:37:53.108 The Djibouti base services not only AFRICOM, 01:37:53.108 --> 01:37:55.860 but it does CENTCOM and SOCOM, 01:37:55.860 --> 01:37:58.390 I believe as General Votel testified the other day. 01:37:58.390 --> 01:38:02.530 We'd be naive to think that the counterintelligence 01:38:02.530 --> 01:38:04.490 and the communication issues, 01:38:04.490 --> 01:38:05.340 and the fact that they have 01:38:05.340 --> 01:38:07.335 actually built the system inside Djibouti, 01:38:07.335 --> 01:38:10.180 they're not trying to get after what we're trying to do. 01:38:10.180 --> 01:38:12.100 - How do you make certain, 01:38:12.100 --> 01:38:14.600 what is your best effort in making certain 01:38:14.600 --> 01:38:17.023 that we remain the partner of choice? 01:38:18.640 --> 01:38:21.345 - Well, again, as I said several times this morning, 01:38:21.345 --> 01:38:23.060 from our military perspective, 01:38:23.060 --> 01:38:25.240 we wanna be sincere in our efforts. 01:38:25.240 --> 01:38:27.520 We wanna deliver what we say we can do. 01:38:27.520 --> 01:38:29.050 We wanna be role models 01:38:29.050 --> 01:38:31.090 when our troops train with African troops. 01:38:31.090 --> 01:38:33.770 We want our equipment to be quality equipment, 01:38:33.770 --> 01:38:35.930 and just, we essentially want to be good partners. 01:38:35.930 --> 01:38:37.858 And I think that when you bring in the agencies 01:38:37.858 --> 01:38:38.980 that we talked about, 01:38:38.980 --> 01:38:42.500 USAID, Millennium Challenge Corporation, and so forth, 01:38:42.500 --> 01:38:44.720 their projects, I mean we've got to make sure 01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:47.740 we elevate those because in places like Senegal, 01:38:47.740 --> 01:38:51.140 for example, the Chinese will build a wrestling stadium, 01:38:51.140 --> 01:38:54.260 but at the same time we have all kind of compacts ongoing 01:38:54.260 --> 01:38:56.763 that don't get the publicity that some of these things do. 01:38:56.763 --> 01:38:59.680 So bottom line for us is we have to make sure 01:38:59.680 --> 01:39:02.140 that we're really doing a government, 01:39:02.140 --> 01:39:03.830 overall a whole-of-government approach, 01:39:03.830 --> 01:39:05.410 and we're synchronizing our efforts, 01:39:05.410 --> 01:39:07.100 and we make sure that we take credit 01:39:07.100 --> 01:39:09.350 for some of these programs that may not get the visibility 01:39:09.350 --> 01:39:11.870 that a brand new infrastructure would. 01:39:11.870 --> 01:39:13.020 - Thank you for the comments, 01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:16.292 and we hope that that whole-of-government approach continues 01:39:16.292 --> 01:39:19.472 to include making certain that we're paying attention 01:39:19.472 --> 01:39:24.472 to those telecom and wireless networks, yield back. 01:39:25.540 --> 01:39:27.620 - Thank you, senator. 01:39:27.620 --> 01:39:29.370 Let me just announce it looks like 01:39:29.370 --> 01:39:31.226 we're down to the most important, 01:39:31.226 --> 01:39:33.613 of course, last we save for. 01:39:34.670 --> 01:39:35.850 We are going to have, 01:39:35.850 --> 01:39:38.500 I say to the staff of those who are not here right now, 01:39:38.500 --> 01:39:40.060 we're going to have a closed session 01:39:40.060 --> 01:39:44.860 immediately following this in Visitor Center 217 01:39:44.860 --> 01:39:46.350 for those who would like to come 01:39:46.350 --> 01:39:47.430 and ask some of the questions 01:39:47.430 --> 01:39:51.070 that were not appropriate to be asked in an open session. 01:39:51.070 --> 01:39:51.903 Senator King. 01:39:53.360 --> 01:39:54.660 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:39:56.900 --> 01:39:58.930 Admiral Faller, you're not gonna be surprised 01:39:58.930 --> 01:39:59.780 by this question. 01:40:00.740 --> 01:40:03.690 The question is interdiction of drug shipments, 01:40:03.690 --> 01:40:06.663 and I understand it's already been discussed to some extent. 01:40:07.960 --> 01:40:08.910 What do you need? 01:40:08.910 --> 01:40:12.030 If you were given a blank sheet of paper, 01:40:12.030 --> 01:40:13.840 what does the Coast Guard need? 01:40:13.840 --> 01:40:14.840 What do you need? 01:40:14.840 --> 01:40:16.045 What do we need to do a better job 01:40:16.045 --> 01:40:19.530 of interdicting those drug shipments that we know about? 01:40:19.530 --> 01:40:23.540 I just, it just is so frustrating 01:40:23.540 --> 01:40:24.980 that we are only interdicting 01:40:24.980 --> 01:40:27.920 about 25% of what we know about. 01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:32.920 So do we need 18 more Cutters, 12 more Zodiacs? 01:40:35.682 --> 01:40:37.823 What's on your list of assets? 01:40:39.320 --> 01:40:41.710 - It's all of our responsibility, 01:40:41.710 --> 01:40:43.940 and we've got to start at the source, 01:40:43.940 --> 01:40:46.283 so very encouraged by the Colombian government 01:40:46.283 --> 01:40:51.100 getting back into, seriously back into the eradication game. 01:40:51.100 --> 01:40:54.470 And they've met their goals for '18, 01:40:54.470 --> 01:40:56.260 and we're seeing progress in '19. 01:40:56.260 --> 01:40:59.668 So record cocaine is going to mean record drug flows, 01:40:59.668 --> 01:41:01.870 and we've got to stop it along the way. 01:41:01.870 --> 01:41:06.350 That requires ISR, intelligence and surveillance assets, 01:41:06.350 --> 01:41:09.100 maritime patrol aircraft, helicopters. 01:41:09.100 --> 01:41:09.940 - No, I understand that, 01:41:09.940 --> 01:41:12.340 but I'm asking you for some specifics. 01:41:12.340 --> 01:41:15.560 Do we need eight more Global Hawks? 01:41:15.560 --> 01:41:17.659 Do we need 14 more Cutters? 01:41:17.659 --> 01:41:19.520 What is it we need? 01:41:19.520 --> 01:41:21.390 - We need more Navy ships from our U.S. Navy. 01:41:21.390 --> 01:41:23.250 - [Angus] Okay, of what nature? 01:41:23.250 --> 01:41:25.810 - So the littoral combat ship is fit for purpose 01:41:25.810 --> 01:41:27.300 for this type of mission, senator. 01:41:27.300 --> 01:41:30.030 We need multiple force packages. 01:41:30.030 --> 01:41:32.840 We need the Coast Guard, a sustained presence. 01:41:32.840 --> 01:41:34.027 They've stepped up in a big way 01:41:34.027 --> 01:41:38.000 from five to eight Cutters over the holiday. 01:41:38.000 --> 01:41:41.900 And then we need the partners in the game. 01:41:41.900 --> 01:41:44.070 We're seeing improvements in some of the partners. 01:41:44.070 --> 01:41:45.770 I'll credit El Salvador, Guatemala. 01:41:45.770 --> 01:41:46.977 We need others to step up, 01:41:46.977 --> 01:41:50.809 and that requires pressure from our government, 01:41:50.809 --> 01:41:54.220 and myself to get that to happen. 01:41:54.220 --> 01:41:56.370 So a lot of work to be done, senator. 01:41:56.370 --> 01:41:58.780 - But do you feel we are moving the needle? 01:41:58.780 --> 01:42:01.380 Are we moving forward on these multiple fronts? 01:42:01.380 --> 01:42:05.570 - We had record interdiction in '17, '18, 01:42:05.570 --> 01:42:07.250 but it's insufficient. 01:42:07.250 --> 01:42:08.220 We're nudging, 01:42:08.220 --> 01:42:10.020 but we're not moving the needle enough, senator. 01:42:10.020 --> 01:42:13.030 And one of the areas you asked me to look at previously, 01:42:13.030 --> 01:42:16.320 I need to get back to you on is the authority piece, 01:42:16.320 --> 01:42:18.420 and whether we have artificial seams 01:42:18.420 --> 01:42:20.870 between the air-land boundary, 01:42:20.870 --> 01:42:24.360 and how we can better utilize and work across that boundary. 01:42:24.360 --> 01:42:26.280 We've stepped up our partnership 01:42:26.280 --> 01:42:29.084 within the last year with Drug Enforcement Agency 01:42:29.084 --> 01:42:32.490 and fusion centers here in the United States. 01:42:32.490 --> 01:42:36.710 Again, more needs to be done to stay ahead of the threat. 01:42:36.710 --> 01:42:39.130 - I just hope if there are assets 01:42:39.130 --> 01:42:42.860 in terms of either budgetary resources, authorities, 01:42:42.860 --> 01:42:45.473 you will let us know because this is, 01:42:46.940 --> 01:42:51.210 these drugs are killing our people, and one a day in Maine, 01:42:51.210 --> 01:42:55.420 And this is a, it seems to me, 01:42:55.420 --> 01:42:58.700 a high return opportunity here, 01:42:58.700 --> 01:43:01.890 given the fact that we know of the shipments 01:43:01.890 --> 01:43:03.770 that we can't interdict. 01:43:03.770 --> 01:43:05.413 - Yes, senator, I agree 100%. 01:43:05.413 --> 01:43:07.940 It's a threat to our nation, killing our citizens. 01:43:07.940 --> 01:43:11.230 It's killing citizens of our partner nations as well, 01:43:11.230 --> 01:43:13.390 and the money from this is fueling 01:43:13.390 --> 01:43:15.190 those drug and criminal organizations, 01:43:15.190 --> 01:43:16.610 which is driving instability. 01:43:16.610 --> 01:43:18.600 It's contributing to the other factors we see, 01:43:18.600 --> 01:43:19.950 like the illegal migration. 01:43:20.860 --> 01:43:23.210 So it's important for many reasons 01:43:23.210 --> 01:43:25.070 that we have to get after this. 01:43:25.070 --> 01:43:28.363 - Well, stay with us on this, admiral, thank you. 01:43:29.440 --> 01:43:32.040 On the issue of, and you mentioned in your testimony, 01:43:32.040 --> 01:43:33.410 I think in answer to Senator Kaine, 01:43:33.410 --> 01:43:35.410 about progress you're seeing 01:43:35.410 --> 01:43:37.270 in the Northern Triangle countries based 01:43:37.270 --> 01:43:38.530 upon American investments. 01:43:38.530 --> 01:43:40.040 I would point out that there was 01:43:40.040 --> 01:43:43.560 a huge refugee problem in the world in 1945. 01:43:43.560 --> 01:43:45.250 There were about 10 million refugees 01:43:45.250 --> 01:43:47.510 in Western Europe after World War II. 01:43:47.510 --> 01:43:50.620 One of the responses of this country was the Marshall Plan, 01:43:50.620 --> 01:43:52.159 which was designed to stabilize 01:43:52.159 --> 01:43:55.170 the economies of those of that region. 01:43:55.170 --> 01:43:56.850 It was very controversial at the time, 01:43:56.850 --> 01:44:01.530 but I think all would agree now it was immensely successful. 01:44:01.530 --> 01:44:04.810 I think we need a similar kind of approach 01:44:04.810 --> 01:44:08.300 to stabilizing those countries so people don't have to flee. 01:44:08.300 --> 01:44:12.600 The best way to stop someone coming to our border is 01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:14.994 that they never start on the journey. 01:44:14.994 --> 01:44:18.900 And that means, I believe you agree, 01:44:18.900 --> 01:44:21.660 that that means work, AID, agriculture, 01:44:21.660 --> 01:44:24.760 all of those programs in those countries. 01:44:24.760 --> 01:44:26.870 Again, dealing with the issue of corruption, 01:44:26.870 --> 01:44:28.730 but to try to do that effectively. 01:44:28.730 --> 01:44:31.260 Do you agree that that should be a priority? 01:44:31.260 --> 01:44:34.230 - Senator, I agree that should be a priority. 01:44:34.230 --> 01:44:35.063 - Thank you. 01:44:36.170 --> 01:44:37.890 Quick question, general. 01:44:37.890 --> 01:44:40.010 By the way, these graphics are terrific 01:44:40.010 --> 01:44:42.980 on the Chinese and Russian influence in Latin America. 01:44:42.980 --> 01:44:45.510 I compliment your staff, whoever presented them. 01:44:45.510 --> 01:44:47.603 They're very dramatic and sobering. 01:44:49.240 --> 01:44:53.870 General, in Africa, China is doing similar kinds of things, 01:44:53.870 --> 01:44:57.160 investing, blending, developing infrastructure, 01:44:57.160 --> 01:44:58.360 all those things. 01:44:58.360 --> 01:44:59.880 Is there a concern that this is 01:44:59.880 --> 01:45:01.960 a precursor to a military presence? 01:45:01.960 --> 01:45:06.960 I mean, is Djibouti a beginning of a militarization process 01:45:07.680 --> 01:45:11.410 that presents a kind of global threat 01:45:11.410 --> 01:45:13.900 or an expansion of a threat from China? 01:45:13.900 --> 01:45:15.230 - Senator, I think at this point in time 01:45:15.230 --> 01:45:17.820 it's too early to make that leap at this point. 01:45:17.820 --> 01:45:18.653 I mean they obviously want, 01:45:18.653 --> 01:45:22.360 one of the reasons for their engagement there is 01:45:22.360 --> 01:45:25.870 they've got, you know, 2000 or so peacekeepers. 01:45:25.870 --> 01:45:28.950 They've got 300,000 or so civilians there. 01:45:28.950 --> 01:45:30.558 They wanna be able to protect their interests 01:45:30.558 --> 01:45:33.840 in their projects that they're working on. 01:45:33.840 --> 01:45:37.700 So whether that leads to a militarization of the continent, 01:45:37.700 --> 01:45:38.750 it's still early to tell. 01:45:38.750 --> 01:45:41.220 But I would say that one of the areas of concern 01:45:41.220 --> 01:45:42.890 that we have there is in the Djibouti, 01:45:42.890 --> 01:45:45.030 the Straits of Bab-el-Mandeb area 01:45:45.030 --> 01:45:46.210 where the Red Sea comes down, 01:45:46.210 --> 01:45:50.880 where we've had really open access for quite some time. 01:45:50.880 --> 01:45:53.180 That is an area of concern because not only the Chinese, 01:45:53.180 --> 01:45:56.700 but the Russians, the Emiratis, the Saudis, 01:45:56.700 --> 01:45:59.220 are all interested in real estate on the Red Sea 01:45:59.220 --> 01:46:01.420 on the African side, Sudan, Eritrea. 01:46:01.420 --> 01:46:03.290 - And they're using an interesting technique 01:46:03.290 --> 01:46:06.510 of lending money and then calling it. 01:46:06.510 --> 01:46:08.970 It's a kind of debt colonialism. 01:46:08.970 --> 01:46:10.990 - Well, they have leverage 01:46:10.990 --> 01:46:14.440 in many of their situations, and as I said, 01:46:14.440 --> 01:46:17.770 I mean these are decisions these governments have to make, 01:46:17.770 --> 01:46:19.630 but Djibouti is really a classic example 01:46:19.630 --> 01:46:22.680 where the Chinese own over 80% of their overseas debt, 01:46:22.680 --> 01:46:25.320 and this is certainly a concern. 01:46:25.320 --> 01:46:26.153 - [Angus] Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. 01:46:26.153 --> 01:46:27.943 - Thank you, Senator King. 01:46:29.060 --> 01:46:32.480 Before Senator Perdue is recognized, 01:46:32.480 --> 01:46:35.410 I want to repeat to the staff that's here 01:46:35.410 --> 01:46:38.170 that there will be a closed session after this. 01:46:38.170 --> 01:46:39.860 I hate to ask you to go over 01:46:39.860 --> 01:46:41.750 'cause there may be nobody there when you get there, 01:46:41.750 --> 01:46:44.700 but nonetheless, there will be this opportunity. 01:46:44.700 --> 01:46:46.535 All right, Senator Perdue. 01:46:46.535 --> 01:46:47.368 - Thank you, Mr. Chair, 01:46:47.368 --> 01:46:49.060 and thank you both for your careers 01:46:49.060 --> 01:46:50.650 and for being here today. 01:46:50.650 --> 01:46:51.711 I wanna beat a dead horse 01:46:51.711 --> 01:46:53.300 because I don't think we've gotten 01:46:53.300 --> 01:46:56.490 to the essence of the issue yet. 01:46:56.490 --> 01:46:58.450 We're all concerned about what China 01:46:58.450 --> 01:47:00.760 and Russia are doing in your AOR. 01:47:00.760 --> 01:47:02.340 So General Votel was in this week, 01:47:02.340 --> 01:47:03.550 and we had the same conversation 01:47:03.550 --> 01:47:05.910 about China's Belt and Road Initiative 01:47:05.910 --> 01:47:09.873 in harbors like Hambantota in Sri Lanka, 01:47:10.940 --> 01:47:12.200 Gwadar in Pakistan. 01:47:12.200 --> 01:47:15.160 We've just seen the first foreclosure in Sri Lanka, 01:47:15.160 --> 01:47:17.220 obviously, but what Russia is also doing 01:47:17.220 --> 01:47:21.847 in Kaliningrad, and Sevastopol, and Latakia, and Tartus. 01:47:21.847 --> 01:47:24.400 Americans have always projected power based 01:47:24.400 --> 01:47:26.810 on our Navy and based on our allies 01:47:26.810 --> 01:47:29.040 who allow us to service our military 01:47:29.040 --> 01:47:31.380 through their geography. 01:47:31.380 --> 01:47:33.400 Russia and China are both now, 01:47:33.400 --> 01:47:36.590 because we have such an advantage in the sea, 01:47:36.590 --> 01:47:39.000 it seems to me that they are setting the stage 01:47:39.000 --> 01:47:41.540 across three continents that are 01:47:41.540 --> 01:47:43.470 of tremendous strategic importance. 01:47:43.470 --> 01:47:45.720 I'd like us to talk about what the NDS does, 01:47:45.720 --> 01:47:49.114 or doesn't do, and what you both need in your AORs 01:47:49.114 --> 01:47:52.770 to deal with what we naturally have to assume is 01:47:52.770 --> 01:47:55.460 an effort that is an economic, if not military, 01:47:55.460 --> 01:47:56.680 involvement that is beyond 01:47:56.680 --> 01:47:59.410 anybody's expectation five years ago. 01:47:59.410 --> 01:48:01.450 And when I look at what Huawei is doing 01:48:01.450 --> 01:48:04.780 in some of these Latin American cities, I'm very concerned. 01:48:04.780 --> 01:48:05.850 So I'd love both of you 01:48:05.850 --> 01:48:07.808 to address the question specifically. 01:48:07.808 --> 01:48:09.720 Before I ask you both, general, 01:48:09.720 --> 01:48:11.500 first of all in Africa we know now, 01:48:11.500 --> 01:48:12.510 admiral you've just told us here, 01:48:12.510 --> 01:48:15.603 56 port investments in South America. 01:48:15.603 --> 01:48:19.380 In Africa, general, do we have a similar estimate 01:48:19.380 --> 01:48:20.707 of the ports that they've made these, 01:48:20.707 --> 01:48:24.079 what I call debt trap diplomacy loans 01:48:24.079 --> 01:48:27.250 in the specific port infrastructure? 01:48:27.250 --> 01:48:28.780 - Senator, I'm not an expert in that area, 01:48:28.780 --> 01:48:30.110 and we can take that for the record, 01:48:30.110 --> 01:48:30.943 but what I will say, 01:48:30.943 --> 01:48:33.150 the Chinese are involved in port operations 01:48:33.150 --> 01:48:33.983 all around the world. 01:48:33.983 --> 01:48:34.816 - [David] Yeah. 01:48:34.816 --> 01:48:37.390 - So it's not unique that perhaps you have a Chinese company 01:48:37.390 --> 01:48:41.520 that has equities in a port on the African continent. 01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:43.810 - Right, so what we saw in the South China Sea, 01:48:43.810 --> 01:48:47.770 though, is where they had, quote, nonmilitary interest, 01:48:47.770 --> 01:48:49.550 have now, we've got plenty of evidence 01:48:49.550 --> 01:48:51.791 that they've converted those to military bases. 01:48:51.791 --> 01:48:55.700 I have no doubt that they're gonna have some 01:48:55.700 --> 01:48:56.776 of the same interest in, 01:48:56.776 --> 01:48:58.747 particularly in Hambantota, right there. 01:48:58.747 --> 01:49:02.310 That's such a strategic thing, location. 01:49:02.310 --> 01:49:03.297 The question I have is I don't think 01:49:03.297 --> 01:49:07.640 the NDS actually addresses this growing potential threat 01:49:07.640 --> 01:49:09.290 because we haven't been able to confirm it, 01:49:09.290 --> 01:49:10.467 as you just said, general. 01:49:10.467 --> 01:49:12.650 So my concern is in these two AORs, 01:49:12.650 --> 01:49:16.330 you and General Votel are three guys 01:49:16.330 --> 01:49:17.710 that sit right in the middle 01:49:17.710 --> 01:49:19.713 of what China and Russia are both doing, 01:49:19.713 --> 01:49:22.910 and I'm worried because of the effort and the focus 01:49:22.910 --> 01:49:25.510 we have on the current crisis today around the world, 01:49:25.510 --> 01:49:26.660 where we're taking our assets 01:49:26.660 --> 01:49:28.800 and spreading them very, very thinly. 01:49:28.800 --> 01:49:30.964 What are we doing now to preclude the potential 01:49:30.964 --> 01:49:33.070 that we won't be able to show up, 01:49:33.070 --> 01:49:34.750 it'll be too late once we recognize 01:49:34.750 --> 01:49:35.720 that they've actually done 01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:37.680 what we were worried they were going to do? 01:49:37.680 --> 01:49:41.600 Would you both address that as it relates to the NDS? 01:49:41.600 --> 01:49:43.440 - Well, senator, let me just kind of clarify. 01:49:43.440 --> 01:49:45.010 You know, I don't have a crystal ball 01:49:45.010 --> 01:49:46.340 to predict what the Chinese will do 01:49:46.340 --> 01:49:47.290 militarily on the African continent. 01:49:47.290 --> 01:49:48.123 - [David] Understood. 01:49:48.123 --> 01:49:49.640 - But what I do know is that they've made 01:49:49.640 --> 01:49:52.080 a conscious decision to put their military 01:49:52.080 --> 01:49:55.740 on the world stage in an area where United States is 01:49:55.740 --> 01:49:57.720 not necessarily engaged to a large degree. 01:49:57.720 --> 01:49:58.553 - [David] Yes, sir. 01:49:58.553 --> 01:49:59.520 - So they work in areas 01:49:59.520 --> 01:50:01.900 where they don't really have any competition from us. 01:50:01.900 --> 01:50:04.470 We're not in countries where they are. 01:50:04.470 --> 01:50:06.013 We're not at places where ports 01:50:06.013 --> 01:50:08.010 on the western side of Africa, 01:50:08.010 --> 01:50:09.870 which is my big concern by the way. 01:50:09.870 --> 01:50:11.040 On the western side of Africa, 01:50:11.040 --> 01:50:12.630 we're not really located there. 01:50:12.630 --> 01:50:14.510 So there's no doubt about the fact 01:50:14.510 --> 01:50:16.790 that they have a long-term vision, 01:50:16.790 --> 01:50:18.937 and by 2049, the 100-year anniversary, 01:50:18.937 --> 01:50:20.534 part of this Belt and Road Initiative, 01:50:20.534 --> 01:50:23.170 this is not, Djibouti is not the first, 01:50:23.170 --> 01:50:24.500 and it won't be the last port. 01:50:24.500 --> 01:50:26.383 And the growth of their military on the continent, 01:50:26.383 --> 01:50:28.280 I don't know what it'll turn out to be, 01:50:28.280 --> 01:50:29.946 but I do know that the Chinese, 01:50:29.946 --> 01:50:33.090 they've made a conscious decision to start there, 01:50:33.090 --> 01:50:35.670 and they're not gonna get smaller. 01:50:35.670 --> 01:50:36.540 - Other than Djibouti, 01:50:36.540 --> 01:50:39.630 do we have any other access ports in Africa? 01:50:39.630 --> 01:50:43.060 - Well, I think I would say Cape Verde, Senegal, 01:50:43.060 --> 01:50:45.170 these are places that we've talked about before 01:50:45.170 --> 01:50:48.700 that are you know, they're good locations for the Chinese. 01:50:48.700 --> 01:50:51.040 They wanna have a government that's relatively stable. 01:50:51.040 --> 01:50:53.790 They don't wanna have to deal with problems, and so forth. 01:50:53.790 --> 01:50:57.520 You look where the military geography, 01:50:57.520 --> 01:50:59.550 meaning deep water ports are there. 01:50:59.550 --> 01:51:01.560 So I mean they certainly want other ports 01:51:01.560 --> 01:51:02.910 on the eastern, and I could, 01:51:02.910 --> 01:51:04.120 there's all kind of speculation 01:51:04.120 --> 01:51:06.980 about what those other ports might be on the eastern side. 01:51:06.980 --> 01:51:08.870 But I do know they're looking on the western side, 01:51:08.870 --> 01:51:09.930 and that's a concern for us 01:51:09.930 --> 01:51:12.829 because they could be in the Atlantic Ocean rather quickly. 01:51:12.829 --> 01:51:14.694 - Admiral, the ambassador in El Salvador 01:51:14.694 --> 01:51:18.880 actually warned last August about what the Chinese military 01:51:18.880 --> 01:51:20.890 is planning to do in La Union, 01:51:20.890 --> 01:51:22.320 that commercial port where they do have 01:51:22.320 --> 01:51:24.420 a proprietary loan there. 01:51:24.420 --> 01:51:29.140 Can you speak to how the NDS will affect this in your AOR? 01:51:29.140 --> 01:51:31.480 - Senator, I think the NDS rightly shined 01:51:31.480 --> 01:51:34.430 a light on this as the biggest challenge 01:51:34.430 --> 01:51:37.430 that will confront us perhaps in the next generation. 01:51:37.430 --> 01:51:38.930 - [David] But we haven't resourced it yet. 01:51:38.930 --> 01:51:40.540 - We're working on the resourcing. 01:51:40.540 --> 01:51:43.213 It's not, as I've mentioned in previous questions, 01:51:43.213 --> 01:51:46.770 we need that consistent level of resourcing in this AOR. 01:51:46.770 --> 01:51:48.180 In addition to the ports you mentioned, 01:51:48.180 --> 01:51:50.727 I would also point out the space stations 01:51:50.727 --> 01:51:55.427 that Chinese are investing in and partnering in in this AOR. 01:51:55.427 --> 01:51:57.820 And again, back to the education, 01:51:57.820 --> 01:52:01.250 some of the basic military building blocks. 01:52:01.250 --> 01:52:03.610 They're taking a page from our playbook. 01:52:03.610 --> 01:52:05.827 The Peace Ark deployed to South America 01:52:05.827 --> 01:52:07.777 and the Caribbean this past year, 01:52:07.777 --> 01:52:10.380 they're trying to replicate our playbook 01:52:10.380 --> 01:52:13.317 to win both access and influence, 01:52:13.317 --> 01:52:16.014 and our counter has to be to remain present. 01:52:16.014 --> 01:52:18.050 We have the ability to have 01:52:18.050 --> 01:52:20.080 the winning hand based on our values, 01:52:20.080 --> 01:52:21.569 our democratic principles, 01:52:21.569 --> 01:52:25.541 and the shared interest that we have in this hemisphere. 01:52:25.541 --> 01:52:27.510 - [David] Thank you both. 01:52:27.510 --> 01:52:29.387 - Thank you, Senator Perdue. 01:52:29.387 --> 01:52:31.460 Okay, that's it. 01:52:31.460 --> 01:52:34.350 All right, it seems this has come to a conclusion. 01:52:34.350 --> 01:52:36.150 We appreciate your attention very much. 01:52:36.150 --> 01:52:39.660 It has been very significant. 01:52:39.660 --> 01:52:42.250 I also appreciate the time both of you have spent with me 01:52:42.250 --> 01:52:44.290 and other members of this committee. 01:52:44.290 --> 01:52:46.500 If it's not an inconvenience to do so, 01:52:46.500 --> 01:52:51.500 we will now go to the senate visitors number 217, 01:52:55.040 --> 01:52:56.800 and we'll see how many people want 01:52:56.800 --> 01:52:59.340 to conclude this with some questions 01:52:59.340 --> 01:53:02.780 that may not have been appropriate for open session. 01:53:02.780 --> 01:53:04.700 So with that, we are adjourned. 01:53:04.700 --> 01:53:05.585 - [Jack] Thank you. 01:53:05.585 --> 01:53:06.418 (gavel thuds) 01:53:06.418 --> 01:53:07.418 I will not join you.