WEBVTT 00:00.972 --> 00:05.139 - So the big cutoffs are at the honorable discharge 00:05.770 --> 00:07.437 and at the retirees. 00:08.792 --> 00:10.708 I think it was those cutoffs 00:10.708 --> 00:14.875 that would make meaningful numbers for the extension 00:15.126 --> 00:17.647 of the life of the cemetery, right? 00:17.647 --> 00:21.814 So I guess I would ask for the endorsement of the committee. 00:22.721 --> 00:26.888 Your thoughts on that as some guidance for the director 00:28.188 --> 00:31.438 as we shape this next round of surveys. 00:32.957 --> 00:34.903 Any other thoughts about that? 00:34.903 --> 00:39.070 'Cause we've seen the numbers so as I recall the numbers 00:45.214 --> 00:48.214 we can extend it a 150 years or more 00:48.601 --> 00:51.351 if we went really at the retiree. 00:55.057 --> 00:56.848 - You don't get well into the future 00:56.848 --> 00:58.807 until you've cut into the retiree. 00:58.807 --> 01:00.388 - That's what I'm saying. - Yes sir. 01:00.388 --> 01:04.555 - So laying that out would be, that would inform the public 01:07.191 --> 01:10.654 about what they're actually trying to look at here. 01:10.654 --> 01:12.522 - I think what we would, if I'm understanding 01:12.522 --> 01:14.740 that's what the committee would like, 01:14.740 --> 01:18.240 so we find options between now and January 01:19.221 --> 01:23.388 to be prepared to present that reflect on the hybrids. 01:25.642 --> 01:29.809 Both where we can expand or increase internment capability 01:32.127 --> 01:35.794 on the current property and then, obviously, 01:37.109 --> 01:40.276 what areas of eligibility we would put 01:41.028 --> 01:42.592 at targeting those two areas. 01:42.592 --> 01:46.192 What that does and how that extends the life. 01:46.192 --> 01:47.498 Is that what you're kind of looking for? 01:47.498 --> 01:49.487 - Yes, because my sense is any one 01:49.487 --> 01:53.654 of the others is not gonna, in terms of the killing action, 01:53.756 --> 01:55.654 unless we have another major conflict 01:55.654 --> 01:57.904 might be a different issue. 01:58.844 --> 02:02.262 What they're saying is that is extremely important. 02:02.262 --> 02:06.429 Everybody seemed to think that was the most significant 02:08.959 --> 02:10.797 that ought to remain eligible. 02:10.797 --> 02:14.964 But if you look at above the retirees in this category, 02:18.801 --> 02:20.684 if you just took all of that, it's not going 02:20.684 --> 02:23.184 to extend it very much at all. 02:24.268 --> 02:26.258 - You're talking to the left of retirees? 02:26.258 --> 02:29.387 That is the first point you would get well 02:29.387 --> 02:31.711 into the future where we're talking about that. 02:31.711 --> 02:33.141 Remember when we're talking about time-- 02:33.141 --> 02:37.308 - My point is if you just took that group, as a group 02:39.480 --> 02:42.419 and took it out, you're not going to extend it very long. 02:42.419 --> 02:44.317 - What would the perish like to do sir? 02:44.317 --> 02:46.530 - Yeah - That is a true statement. 02:46.530 --> 02:48.697 Probably fairly a hundred. 02:50.024 --> 02:54.155 We've had a rough year, I will state that as a nation. 02:54.155 --> 02:56.707 Our perish line active duty has been very high 02:56.707 --> 02:58.560 and we have seen a lot. 02:58.560 --> 03:01.324 We've probably averaged three to four active duty services 03:01.324 --> 03:03.324 a week since the summer. 03:06.276 --> 03:07.943 It's been very high. 03:10.103 --> 03:13.603 But on average, that would be a small dent 03:14.113 --> 03:16.446 in the life of the cemetery. 03:16.680 --> 03:19.626 - I mean the real gut issue here is what 03:19.626 --> 03:21.376 to do with retirents. 03:21.676 --> 03:24.076 If we don't change with retirees, 03:24.076 --> 03:26.909 then we don't make much of a dent. 03:27.023 --> 03:28.877 Change with retirees, we're taking people 03:28.877 --> 03:33.044 who've served 20 years plus and many of them hope, 03:33.721 --> 03:36.888 plan on be burying here and say, "No." 03:39.067 --> 03:40.646 I don't know if this would work, you'd have 03:40.646 --> 03:41.709 to talk to the polling people. 03:41.709 --> 03:45.324 Sometimes in my campaign polls, if I really wanted 03:45.324 --> 03:49.491 to dig into depth in an issue, rather than some superficial. 03:50.640 --> 03:54.807 I'm not calling this superficial, but what you would do is 03:56.093 --> 04:00.260 you would honestly say, "Arlington Cemetery is considering 04:00.270 --> 04:04.437 "whether or not to change the policy and no longer allow men 04:04.583 --> 04:08.666 "or women who served 20 years or longer the right 04:10.522 --> 04:12.678 "to be buried in Arlington." 04:12.678 --> 04:16.678 The upside of that is, blank, you extend burials 04:17.554 --> 04:21.221 for so many years and save spaces for killed 04:21.670 --> 04:23.978 in action and medal of honor recipients. 04:23.978 --> 04:27.145 The down side is you're telling people 04:27.502 --> 04:30.752 who committed their lives for 20 years, 04:31.557 --> 04:34.322 may have served their country in combat, 04:34.322 --> 04:38.489 who thought they had every right to be buried in Arlington, 04:40.047 --> 04:41.614 the policy is going to deny them. 04:41.614 --> 04:45.424 You try to do an honest presentation of both sides 04:45.424 --> 04:48.295 and then say, "What side do you agree?". 04:48.295 --> 04:52.462 A really good pollster can do that in probably two sentences 04:52.532 --> 04:55.949 but it has to be objective, it can't say, 04:58.896 --> 05:01.950 "no law that guarantees military retirees, ber, ber, ber." 05:01.950 --> 05:03.283 It's got to be-- 05:03.682 --> 05:07.849 - That's what I was getting at, what is the impact. 05:10.235 --> 05:13.359 - If you were to put that question together, 05:13.359 --> 05:15.942 what would you say in fairness. 05:16.353 --> 05:18.252 The upside, we know what the upside would be. 05:18.252 --> 05:20.919 The downside is you're denying-- 05:21.699 --> 05:25.497 - Right denying as a retiree you would be ineligible 05:25.497 --> 05:28.655 for burial in Arlington, even though you may have served 05:28.655 --> 05:30.072 20 or more years. 05:30.342 --> 05:32.605 At the same time, is there any room for, 05:32.605 --> 05:34.974 because a lot of people say, just even 05:34.974 --> 05:38.641 with the recent legislation on the tax laws, 05:38.893 --> 05:40.229 the whole different thing. 05:40.229 --> 05:43.729 There's grandfathering at a certain point. 05:44.983 --> 05:48.780 Is that even an option, to say that effective on this date, 05:48.780 --> 05:52.447 because of limitations, we have to close it. 05:52.987 --> 05:55.645 And the other thing I wanted to ask, 05:55.645 --> 05:58.395 have we gone to the war colleges? 06:00.065 --> 06:03.732 The war colleges are mainly senior officers, 06:04.897 --> 06:08.981 I know a small population, that are nearing retirement. 06:08.981 --> 06:11.076 They're already committed. 06:11.076 --> 06:13.978 They're going to retire and/or 06:13.978 --> 06:16.225 something catastrophic happen. 06:16.225 --> 06:17.637 They're at that age. 06:17.637 --> 06:20.387 Or our CGSC, those are people too 06:22.893 --> 06:24.594 who are pretty much committed. 06:24.594 --> 06:27.100 They've said, "I've already put in 12 to 13 years, 06:27.100 --> 06:29.317 "I only have maybe seven more to go." 06:29.317 --> 06:31.718 Those are populations where they are looking 06:31.718 --> 06:35.135 to become retired in the very near future 06:35.408 --> 06:38.856 of their lifespan as well as Sergeants, Major. 06:38.856 --> 06:41.301 You know, those type of populations that maybe 06:41.301 --> 06:44.719 we should look at what is their feeling about it. 06:44.719 --> 06:46.344 I would just be interested in that because 06:46.344 --> 06:50.511 they're clear future retirees in the immediate future. 06:51.645 --> 06:55.062 See if they have any input to your survey 06:57.598 --> 07:01.765 and if that would be of interest or helpful to us. 07:02.291 --> 07:05.739 - Joyce, that is part of the targeting as we go out 07:05.739 --> 07:08.072 and come up with a strategy. 07:09.399 --> 07:12.665 'Cause the advantage of this one, as Shane has spent 07:12.665 --> 07:14.665 some time talking about. 07:15.657 --> 07:19.824 If you look right now at the end numbers over there, 07:20.122 --> 07:23.950 the vast majority that responded that picked this 07:23.950 --> 07:26.700 were active-duty service members. 07:27.078 --> 07:30.495 More than half, twice as many as veterans 07:30.739 --> 07:32.739 that picked this option. 07:33.625 --> 07:35.875 So those currently serving. 07:35.985 --> 07:39.318 So how do we get after them as we target 07:41.350 --> 07:43.850 for this next round of surveys 07:44.144 --> 07:46.331 that maybe lays out that kind of polling. 07:46.331 --> 07:49.126 Finding a way to get after some targets. 07:49.126 --> 07:50.994 Make sure we send it to the schoolhouses 07:50.994 --> 07:53.440 and things of that nature so get specific groups 07:53.440 --> 07:55.278 if they want to take it. 07:55.278 --> 07:58.445 - It said 25 to 34, that's why I was-- 08:01.004 --> 08:03.070 - It's their average age. 08:03.070 --> 08:04.861 So there were probably people who were in their 40s 08:04.861 --> 08:06.638 but also 18 year olds. 08:06.638 --> 08:10.388 - So those are averages, it's not the median. 08:11.392 --> 08:14.642 - What I did hear you say, I don't want 08:16.055 --> 08:17.574 to miss writing it down. 08:17.574 --> 08:19.366 I think one of the things we've always talked 08:19.366 --> 08:23.533 about is those hybrids of some sort of phased approach. 08:26.520 --> 08:27.353 - Right 08:27.706 --> 08:31.274 - When you think about it, right now we know 2041. 08:31.274 --> 08:34.053 Unfortunately, that's barely a life. 08:34.053 --> 08:37.561 There's a service member entering the Army today 08:37.561 --> 08:40.061 that will reach retirement age 08:40.690 --> 08:43.357 and the cemetery will be closed. 08:43.469 --> 08:47.636 Most of the folks that are senior and for example, 08:48.284 --> 08:49.894 getting ready to retire today or 08:49.894 --> 08:52.841 in the next three or four years, in 20 years will be 08:52.841 --> 08:54.341 in their 60s, 70s. 08:55.544 --> 08:59.461 Still likely be alive when the cemetery closes. 09:01.012 --> 09:03.974 Anything we do with expansion that potentially bumps 09:03.974 --> 09:06.647 that out, let's hope we are successful 09:06.647 --> 09:09.411 with southern expansion bumps it out to 55. 09:09.411 --> 09:12.570 Now you start getting into the area where people retiring 09:12.570 --> 09:15.243 when you make the change may still be able 09:15.243 --> 09:17.493 to realize the opportunity. 09:18.600 --> 09:20.043 So I think that will be the challenge 09:20.043 --> 09:23.217 as we put the options together of coming up with 09:23.217 --> 09:26.884 that slide-rule of where the decision points 09:28.898 --> 09:30.522 that you would have to make. 09:30.522 --> 09:34.355 Because as this committee has said many times, 09:34.487 --> 09:37.154 the longer we continue to inter, 09:37.798 --> 09:41.170 for example the honorable discharge category, 09:41.170 --> 09:45.337 means the less likely well into the future we'll be able 09:46.516 --> 09:49.812 to inter the last two columns which everybody says we need 09:49.812 --> 09:51.479 to be able to inter. 09:52.834 --> 09:56.252 - What's intriguing to me about this chart, in particular, 09:56.252 --> 09:57.649 is that the service members, 09:57.649 --> 09:59.487 remember within the next five years, 09:59.487 --> 10:02.373 the first service member will retire with 20 years 10:02.373 --> 10:06.540 of service who has never spent a day in peacetime. 10:08.144 --> 10:10.741 If you think about the global warfare. 10:10.741 --> 10:13.991 The first group, outside of the these two, 10:13.991 --> 10:15.875 the first group that's willing 10:15.875 --> 10:18.542 to make a big cut is right here. 10:19.490 --> 10:20.990 Is the same group. 10:22.482 --> 10:26.482 - Only 31% of service members felt strongly 10:27.084 --> 10:29.301 that retirees should remain eligible. 10:29.301 --> 10:32.468 - My argument being that group has had 10:33.812 --> 10:36.819 a significant commitment during wartime, 10:36.819 --> 10:40.902 that there's a bit of a different maybe in ethos. 10:45.021 --> 10:46.904 Outside of that first group, that's the first group 10:46.904 --> 10:49.897 that makes a hard (mumbling). 10:49.897 --> 10:51.735 - The other thing this chart tells me, 10:51.735 --> 10:54.043 just thinking out loud here, 10:54.043 --> 10:57.876 is if at the end of the day the Army secretary 10:58.403 --> 11:02.403 and or Congress together can't make the decision 11:02.624 --> 11:06.791 to say to retirees, "Sorry, we're going to save Arlington 11:08.776 --> 11:11.448 "for killed in action, medal of honor recipients." 11:11.448 --> 11:15.185 Then I think this chart will make the case strongly 11:15.185 --> 11:18.435 to set aside quite a significant number 11:20.334 --> 11:24.495 for killed in action and medal of honor recipients. 11:24.495 --> 11:28.049 Not assume we're going to be at peace for the next 40 years, 11:28.049 --> 11:31.049 like we do on Congressional budgets. 11:32.363 --> 11:34.696 And then you're not changing 11:35.401 --> 11:37.360 the qualifications for retirees, 11:37.360 --> 11:40.671 but in effect you are shortening the years left. 11:40.671 --> 11:44.504 Because you are taking, I would hope thousands 11:44.635 --> 11:47.302 of spaces that would be reserved 11:47.353 --> 11:50.346 for KIA and medal of honor recipients 11:50.346 --> 11:54.096 and those won't be spaces filled by retirees. 11:57.317 --> 11:59.884 But at least in that case, politically I can see 11:59.884 --> 12:01.965 that being a little easier. 12:01.965 --> 12:05.632 Moe is not going to like it, but it's easier 12:06.886 --> 12:09.103 because you're not saying, "No, you're no longer eligible." 12:09.103 --> 12:11.883 It's just retirees can be buried there 12:11.883 --> 12:13.857 until the spaces are filled up, 12:13.857 --> 12:16.606 however we are going to reserve spaces 12:16.606 --> 12:18.246 for the killed in action. 12:18.246 --> 12:19.568 - Of course the tempo's going to slow down here 12:19.568 --> 12:20.985 an awful lot too. 12:21.907 --> 12:24.367 - Yes it would, tempo of operations would. 12:24.367 --> 12:25.367 Yes correct. 12:25.689 --> 12:27.272 - Maybe one a week. 12:29.971 --> 12:31.113 - If we were still doing retirees, 12:31.113 --> 12:32.432 it would be more than that. 12:32.432 --> 12:36.599 If we're not doing retirees, if we use this week as example. 12:39.586 --> 12:42.836 That purple heart high award would have 12:45.160 --> 12:47.043 to be reassessed to see what it is. 12:47.043 --> 12:51.210 Because on any given week we do at least two to three 12:51.767 --> 12:55.017 of the perished in active duty and then 12:55.062 --> 12:57.463 then other ones are depending on what type 12:57.463 --> 12:58.784 of award they have. 12:58.784 --> 12:59.784 Silverstar-- 12:59.862 --> 13:01.628 - And spouses? - And spouses, correct. 13:01.628 --> 13:04.024 And we'll be doing spouses for those buried here 13:04.024 --> 13:05.857 for the next 25 years. 13:06.910 --> 13:08.489 - I think it would be worth you laying all of that out. 13:08.489 --> 13:10.088 What are the assumptions. 13:10.088 --> 13:14.005 - Is there a way to further define high awarded 13:14.671 --> 13:15.838 in this sense. 13:17.435 --> 13:21.602 Max Cleeland gave two legs and an arm to our country. 13:24.482 --> 13:28.649 Could you have a criteria based on the disability. 13:32.610 --> 13:36.396 - Do we define high awards and include Purple Heart? 13:36.396 --> 13:37.826 - Yes, it does include Purple Heart. 13:37.826 --> 13:40.576 - Silver Star - Silver Star, yeah. 13:40.983 --> 13:44.316 - I was going to say he's a Silver Star. 13:47.255 --> 13:51.143 - Let's remind folks we did look at preservation of spaces. 13:51.143 --> 13:55.310 We're not talking a 100 or 1000 before you get even near 13:56.049 --> 13:58.859 a hundred years you're talking 20 thousand spaces 13:58.859 --> 14:00.776 based on recent trends. 14:02.975 --> 14:05.132 Again caveats always there, if you have 14:05.132 --> 14:08.299 a rapidly escalating conflict numbers. 14:08.729 --> 14:12.518 - Yeah, if you didn't, and I don't think it does, 14:12.518 --> 14:13.885 include Purple Heart. 14:13.885 --> 14:15.693 - No, recipients of other high awards 14:15.693 --> 14:18.457 for example Purple Heart, Silver Star, Distinguished.... 14:18.457 --> 14:20.790 We use the current criteria. 14:21.540 --> 14:24.304 So Purple Heart was included and is included 14:24.304 --> 14:25.521 in that definition. 14:25.521 --> 14:27.965 - Okay, high awards - High awards include 14:27.965 --> 14:29.132 Purple Hearts. 14:30.076 --> 14:32.493 No, the Bronze Star does not. 14:34.420 --> 14:38.503 - So, I mean this gets round to what are we going 14:39.326 --> 14:40.993 to do with retirees? 14:41.437 --> 14:45.097 If retirees are excluded, then it extends the cemetery 14:45.097 --> 14:46.930 for a long, long time. 14:47.269 --> 14:49.885 - I guess that's what I'm suggesting 14:49.885 --> 14:52.052 we say let's boil it down. 14:52.494 --> 14:55.395 We put all those to the left of retirees and say 14:55.395 --> 14:59.562 that would be eligible and it would have X Y Z effect. 15:04.842 --> 15:08.425 With retirees, maybe it is to think through 15:13.120 --> 15:16.203 what might be a grandfathering piece. 15:22.506 --> 15:26.673 To say at this cut point, maybe it's World War II or Korea, 15:33.107 --> 15:35.690 here's what it would look like. 15:37.892 --> 15:42.059 Tease that out at a little more detail til your point 15:42.478 --> 15:45.075 the public actually understands. 15:45.075 --> 15:49.242 Say, clearly the honorable discharge is not enough. 15:50.589 --> 15:54.506 You've spoken, so now we want to help you focus 15:55.571 --> 15:59.654 to help us understand what the public would want. 15:59.975 --> 16:03.892 - I think that is, I don't want to second guess 16:05.747 --> 16:09.747 the survey has done a great mode of information. 16:10.804 --> 16:14.343 But the report did lay out exactly what the answers 16:14.343 --> 16:16.093 to some of these are. 16:16.804 --> 16:19.553 What we've learned based on this survey is we've got 16:19.553 --> 16:21.710 to provide more information. 16:21.710 --> 16:25.036 Of those 28 thousand people, how many read 71 page reports. 16:25.036 --> 16:27.286 - I think that's the point. 16:28.210 --> 16:32.377 Let's now focus on the real issues and say take this out. 16:35.637 --> 16:37.887 you've got this many years. 16:38.006 --> 16:42.173 With the retiree population, until you address that, 16:42.275 --> 16:45.692 we're still going to be closing at X Y Z. 16:46.922 --> 16:50.505 - The chart, but have we got data that says 16:50.902 --> 16:55.069 in the last 16 years the nation's been involved in conflict. 16:55.989 --> 16:58.146 How many percentage of the killed in action 16:58.146 --> 17:00.396 actually came to Arlington? 17:02.034 --> 17:05.179 - So we did look at that, remember this is all coming out 17:05.179 --> 17:07.077 of this foggy mind right here. 17:07.077 --> 17:08.823 - We have to pull up the data again and look at it. 17:08.823 --> 17:10.406 - We did, is it 10? 17:11.360 --> 17:14.777 - Less than 10 percent come to Arlington. 17:17.936 --> 17:22.103 - Even though that's the figure get's the lobbyist support 17:24.878 --> 17:26.897 is killed in action, but only 10 percent. 17:26.897 --> 17:31.064 I don't know what the exact number, 4900 being killed? 17:34.203 --> 17:35.703 If 10 percent of-- 17:35.828 --> 17:37.828 - In the last ten years. 17:40.131 --> 17:44.298 Remember that includes our two Niger deaths recently. 17:45.199 --> 17:49.366 So we'd have to run the numbers again now to see how, 17:49.756 --> 17:53.839 I think that number you used was from 12 or 15... 17:54.236 --> 17:57.319 - This gets to how data is collected. 17:59.416 --> 18:01.709 - But basically around 10 to 12 percent. 18:01.709 --> 18:04.709 - Yes, probably something like that. 18:06.661 --> 18:07.494 - Yes sir. 18:13.039 --> 18:15.289 - Other discussion on this? 18:15.500 --> 18:19.054 Does that give you some guidance in terms of? 18:19.054 --> 18:21.013 - I see nobody's ready to stand up 18:21.013 --> 18:24.886 for the politicians on the chart, 2%, 3%. 18:24.886 --> 18:26.922 I don't know who the unaffiliated are, 18:26.922 --> 18:29.291 but politicians go all the way up to 6%. 18:29.291 --> 18:30.124 (laughing) 18:30.124 --> 18:33.041 - They're probably the politicians. 18:35.184 --> 18:39.267 - I did stop several folks threw the pencil down. 18:39.437 --> 18:41.153 I said, "Wait we're talking about folks 18:41.153 --> 18:42.383 who also have service." 18:42.383 --> 18:43.872 (laughing) 18:43.872 --> 18:48.039 - If you probably said should Bob Dole be able to be buried, 18:48.322 --> 18:50.133 it would probably be different. 18:50.133 --> 18:51.845 But I guess we're just gonna have 18:51.845 --> 18:53.896 to write the politicians off. 18:53.896 --> 18:58.063 - I think a lot of folks read that as just the politicians. 19:00.670 --> 19:03.087 - Shane, thank you very much. 19:03.237 --> 19:04.330 - My pleasure. 19:04.330 --> 19:07.885 - Our next agenda item are subcommittee reports. 19:07.885 --> 19:12.052 Mark you want to come up and give a report on the November. 19:21.706 --> 19:23.210 - I think most of you were present 19:23.210 --> 19:26.710 for the subcommittee meeting this morning. 19:30.074 --> 19:31.324 Get my notes... 19:38.185 --> 19:41.602 We received briefings on the smart cities 19:46.753 --> 19:50.920 that will bring some increased technologies to the cemetery. 19:54.953 --> 19:58.370 And some ways we can increase efficiency, 20:00.800 --> 20:03.383 I think is the way to describe, 20:04.278 --> 20:06.861 so that there is more awareness 20:06.953 --> 20:08.789 of where things are happening at the cemetery 20:08.789 --> 20:10.206 at the same time. 20:11.189 --> 20:13.689 It was a pretty good briefing. 20:14.424 --> 20:17.924 A very nice way that will help operations. 20:18.130 --> 20:22.297 We received a horticulture briefing and learned a lot 20:24.404 --> 20:28.571 about that and efforts to reach Level 3 Arboretum status, 20:31.237 --> 20:35.404 which is a goal for us to accomplish by the end of FY 18. 20:37.495 --> 20:40.162 I think, that's about it really. 20:43.100 --> 20:47.267 We got the monument update, which most of are familiar with. 20:52.136 --> 20:53.777 - No recommendations to be brought? 20:53.777 --> 20:54.855 - There was nothing. 20:54.855 --> 20:56.100 We didn't vote on anything 20:56.100 --> 20:58.941 and no recommendations brought forward. 20:58.941 --> 21:00.019 - Thank you very much. 21:00.019 --> 21:01.686 Any questions about? 21:06.231 --> 21:09.893 - We start on the Honor Committee, we talked 21:09.893 --> 21:14.060 about the national dialogue we had a more in depth 21:14.934 --> 21:17.425 discussion about the briefing we just had. 21:17.425 --> 21:19.354 We had an update on the admin building 21:19.354 --> 21:23.521 which looks like it's going to be a bigger project 21:24.138 --> 21:25.733 than what I thought it was going to be. 21:25.733 --> 21:29.900 But it will really add to the experience of our clientele. 21:32.826 --> 21:36.993 And then we had a discussion about the full military honors. 21:38.704 --> 21:42.621 It led to the committee supporting the director 21:44.202 --> 21:48.285 and the staff in recommending families that elect 21:51.252 --> 21:53.419 to defer scheduling dates. 21:58.061 --> 22:01.310 The way it works now when they get all ready 22:01.310 --> 22:02.981 to go in terms of scheduling, 22:02.981 --> 22:07.064 they get offered three dates over several months. 22:07.492 --> 22:08.825 Is that correct? 22:09.937 --> 22:13.446 Shane I don't know if you want, do you have that briefing? 22:13.446 --> 22:15.205 - Yes sir, I can pull it up. 22:15.205 --> 22:19.372 - There's probably some slides that would be worth showing. 22:20.871 --> 22:24.987 But then they don't pick something, then it drags on out. 22:24.987 --> 22:27.143 What you see this is particularly those 22:27.143 --> 22:30.030 with cremated remains because they can sit on them. 22:30.030 --> 22:32.930 And then they're looking for a time that's really convenient 22:32.930 --> 22:37.097 for them as oppose to a reasonable management structure 22:38.384 --> 22:39.801 for the cemetery. 22:43.349 --> 22:45.523 It revolves around scheduling, 22:45.523 --> 22:48.118 particularly with full military honors because 22:48.118 --> 22:51.793 of all the resources that go into that from the band to 22:51.793 --> 22:55.710 the platoon to the caisson to even up to canons 22:57.429 --> 22:58.512 and so forth. 22:59.403 --> 23:03.570 So you can see the considerations up on the screen there. 23:07.134 --> 23:11.301 The discussion was those that choose to defer the scheduling 23:14.105 --> 23:18.272 would forfeit their right to full military honors. 23:23.082 --> 23:27.249 There are circumstances, the other are people that 23:27.334 --> 23:31.501 cancel and get rescheduled that winds up screwing up 23:32.407 --> 23:34.324 the queue and so forth. 23:34.459 --> 23:37.406 There are some legitimate reasons for when that happens 23:37.406 --> 23:39.485 and that would not be effected. 23:39.485 --> 23:42.355 Things like a hurricane comes through and nobody would come, 23:42.355 --> 23:43.938 and all that stuff. 23:44.603 --> 23:47.936 Or some other catastrophe in the family. 23:48.511 --> 23:50.422 But just because they want to be here 23:50.422 --> 23:53.461 for the cherry blossoms isn't a good enough reason. 23:53.461 --> 23:57.211 So is to give, these are really process kinds 23:58.883 --> 24:01.846 of things they could be implementing today 24:01.846 --> 24:05.679 and nobody would have a different expectation. 24:07.100 --> 24:10.183 So it is suggesting we as a committee 24:12.234 --> 24:15.567 endorse the directors desire to go ahead 24:21.331 --> 24:23.564 and move on with these process changes. 24:23.564 --> 24:25.979 If there's a bunch of blowback and feedback 24:25.979 --> 24:28.029 then we would adjust as we always do, 24:28.029 --> 24:30.696 to the way the customer sees us. 24:33.846 --> 24:37.013 - So, do you want to got to that slide 24:39.193 --> 24:40.264 that has your blue bars? 24:40.264 --> 24:42.431 - Yes sir - The first slide 24:44.957 --> 24:46.624 - Oh yes, of course. 24:47.357 --> 24:51.190 - It kind of lays out graphically the problem. 24:51.702 --> 24:55.604 If you look at that very first line there up above, 24:55.604 --> 24:58.187 that's full military honors for cremated remains. 24:58.187 --> 25:00.297 - Shane will you point to it for folks 25:00.297 --> 25:02.547 who weren't here yesterday? 25:03.078 --> 25:05.401 - So the average wait time just 25:05.401 --> 25:07.818 to get scheduled is 28 weeks. 25:10.944 --> 25:14.103 Then you're not getting buried for 40 weeks. 25:14.103 --> 25:17.520 That's the wait for full military honors. 25:18.736 --> 25:22.903 This aint going to solve the problem but it will start 25:24.265 --> 25:28.432 to improve the efficiency within Renee's organization 25:30.432 --> 25:34.099 and allow that process to be a bit smoother. 25:41.004 --> 25:45.171 It's probably worth us thinking further how do you increase 25:46.699 --> 25:49.866 the capacity for full military honors. 25:50.952 --> 25:54.119 If you'll go to that last slide again. 25:55.220 --> 25:58.803 This may free up some, because they'll say, 25:59.732 --> 26:03.899 "I'd just rather go with standard honors and get it done." 26:07.112 --> 26:10.181 If you go to the next modifying the full military honors 26:10.181 --> 26:14.181 population to include E9s, CW4s, O4s or greater, 26:17.015 --> 26:18.718 it's the O4 or greater. 26:18.718 --> 26:20.736 Right now if you're a commissioned officer, 26:20.736 --> 26:23.569 you can have full military honors. 26:25.991 --> 26:28.408 But if you chop it off at O4, 26:34.417 --> 26:38.584 which gives you a shot at opening up more opportunities 26:43.712 --> 26:47.795 for full military honors and move the queue along 26:49.240 --> 26:53.073 for those that are eligible to get potentially 26:56.257 --> 26:57.840 a bit more quickly. 27:04.216 --> 27:07.299 - You have the recommendations slide? 27:08.256 --> 27:10.443 - So we didn't have all the numbers 27:10.443 --> 27:12.251 to be able to support that. 27:12.251 --> 27:15.251 We don't know exactly what the hoops 27:15.911 --> 27:19.328 to get the secretary to do that would be. 27:21.454 --> 27:24.297 The committee is recommending to move ahead 27:24.297 --> 27:28.297 with enough research to determine the way ahead. 27:29.580 --> 27:32.770 Generally, we're endorsing that notion because 27:32.770 --> 27:34.911 that becomes the biggest wait lending step 27:34.911 --> 27:38.994 in the cemetery is official full military honors. 27:42.065 --> 27:46.232 Anybody from the committee, did I capture that adequately? 27:47.001 --> 27:51.168 - I think so, the plus side is you speed up some things 27:51.891 --> 27:54.558 for full military honors service 27:56.509 --> 27:58.727 and it helps administrative? 27:58.727 --> 27:59.560 - Correct 28:01.157 --> 28:04.740 - But Mark, as Jim said, Mark did point out 28:09.009 --> 28:12.759 and in full disclosure with the subcommittee. 28:15.376 --> 28:16.612 You shouldn't pretend it's going 28:16.612 --> 28:18.632 to solve the big core problem. 28:18.632 --> 28:22.799 It's going to improve, expedite full military honor services 28:22.991 --> 28:26.158 at the margin and help administrative. 28:26.363 --> 28:27.446 Is that fair? 28:27.988 --> 28:30.238 - That's fair sir, yes sir. 28:31.162 --> 28:35.329 - What I'd like to do is entertain a motion separately. 28:36.723 --> 28:40.140 Dealing with A. First families that elect 28:41.703 --> 28:45.870 to defer scheduling dates or reschedule without due cause 28:49.281 --> 28:51.423 not be offered full military honor 28:51.423 --> 28:54.173 for another opportunity at dates. 28:59.944 --> 29:02.694 I'd like to deal with that first. 29:02.769 --> 29:05.019 - They have three choices-- 29:05.077 --> 29:09.244 - Yeah, they get their three choices but they can't say, 29:09.467 --> 29:11.016 "Well, I'd rather wait 'til April 29:11.016 --> 29:14.145 "because the cherry blossoms are out." 29:14.145 --> 29:17.645 - Gene, compared to the VA system that's-- 29:17.760 --> 29:21.010 - VA usually gives you one choice, Sir. 29:21.040 --> 29:23.182 They call the scheduling center and they'll say, 29:23.182 --> 29:26.682 "Well you want to be buried at Ft. Krantz, 29:28.771 --> 29:31.021 "here's the date available. 29:31.459 --> 29:34.126 "Or if you want to go Riverside, 29:34.421 --> 29:36.259 "we've got these two other dates. 29:36.259 --> 29:37.853 "But if you want to go National Memorial Cemetery 29:37.853 --> 29:41.520 "in Honolulu, sorry you got to wait a week." 29:48.595 --> 29:51.064 - Even with this change, Arlington will still be giving 29:51.064 --> 29:54.147 a lot more choices than the VA system. 29:54.147 --> 29:54.980 - Yes sir. 29:57.747 --> 30:00.830 - Can I hear a motion to that regard. 30:02.926 --> 30:03.843 - So moved. 30:04.674 --> 30:06.799 - I'd like to make a motion to show we moved in 30:06.799 --> 30:10.966 that direction and have the administrative people be able 30:11.325 --> 30:14.408 to give our next of kin three choices 30:15.648 --> 30:19.035 and if they disregard that, they loose the opportunity 30:19.035 --> 30:21.618 to go for full military honors. 30:21.936 --> 30:24.436 - And then if they reschedule. 30:25.020 --> 30:28.687 Did you include the second part, I'm sorry. 30:29.546 --> 30:32.142 - Initial scheduling or rescheduling. 30:32.142 --> 30:34.725 - Okay, I'll second the motion. 30:35.438 --> 30:37.276 - Any further discussion? 30:37.276 --> 30:39.873 - May I ask sir, this is a recommendation from 30:39.873 --> 30:43.883 the Chair of the Honor Subcommittee to the full committee? 30:43.883 --> 30:46.586 So I can delineate this properly for the public minutes. 30:46.586 --> 30:49.094 - This is the Honor Subcommittee bringing 30:49.094 --> 30:50.718 a recommendation to the full committee. 30:50.718 --> 30:53.135 Full committee is endorsing-- 30:53.345 --> 30:55.061 - Or getting ready to vote. 30:55.061 --> 30:56.945 - Can you just restate what we're voting for 30:56.945 --> 30:58.612 so I'm really clear. 30:58.843 --> 31:00.760 - Okay, back on please. 31:02.914 --> 31:07.075 It would be that families that elect to defer scheduling 31:07.075 --> 31:09.399 when they're offered three dates. 31:09.399 --> 31:13.566 When they elect to not select one of those dates and wait 31:13.608 --> 31:17.373 for a service to a later time, lose the opportunity 31:17.373 --> 31:19.790 to have full military honors. 31:21.671 --> 31:25.043 The most they can receive then is standard honors. 31:25.043 --> 31:29.083 If they select a date and chose to reschedule for other 31:29.083 --> 31:32.916 than the catastrophic reasons, usually related 31:34.019 --> 31:38.075 to the illness or incapacitation of the primary next of kin, 31:38.075 --> 31:41.720 or weather related that prevent the attendance. 31:41.720 --> 31:45.887 If they chose to reschedule the service they again lose 31:46.565 --> 31:48.815 their full military honors. 31:48.859 --> 31:51.472 The highest they can receive is standard military honors. 31:51.472 --> 31:52.305 - Okay 31:52.824 --> 31:54.812 - Would you explain, Renee, briefly 31:54.812 --> 31:56.817 how the bow wave is created? 31:56.817 --> 32:00.006 People have said for willy nilly reasons, 32:00.006 --> 32:03.409 again "I want the cherry blossom" to reschedule. 32:03.409 --> 32:05.793 How that impacts other things? 32:05.793 --> 32:08.816 - I can specifically speak to one case. 32:08.816 --> 32:12.649 We had one case that is still not rescheduled. 32:12.673 --> 32:14.840 They've rescheduled twice. 32:14.967 --> 32:18.460 My staff has called this family now a total 32:18.460 --> 32:21.270 of six times just related to scheduling. 32:21.270 --> 32:24.611 And while doing that and pushing it further out, 32:24.611 --> 32:27.102 other families that are coming up in the queue have 32:27.102 --> 32:31.269 to wait longer or don't addressed in a more timely manner. 32:31.750 --> 32:35.917 Last year, for example, we had 148 plus cases requesting 32:37.704 --> 32:40.954 the month of April or the month of May. 32:41.410 --> 32:45.577 Over the year, 160 families that said, "I want April 2016." 32:52.801 --> 32:56.968 So what happens is when we open April, for everybody 32:57.206 --> 33:00.440 at that time was one plus four, we open April 33:00.440 --> 33:02.523 on our about January 1st. 33:03.250 --> 33:06.685 We spend time scheduling people that called us way back 33:06.685 --> 33:09.935 in the queue scheduling them for April, 33:09.994 --> 33:14.161 forcing everybody else then to hold and wait in place. 33:14.264 --> 33:16.998 Causing that bow wave, causing that fluctuation 33:16.998 --> 33:20.248 in the schedule that is hard to manage. 33:20.263 --> 33:24.180 So this is an opportunity, from my perspective, 33:24.622 --> 33:27.920 help families understand, in some ways help 33:27.920 --> 33:30.075 them make a decision when they're 33:30.075 --> 33:32.492 a little indecisive about it. 33:33.386 --> 33:36.089 It's still several months in advance, 33:36.089 --> 33:38.915 so the planning process is still available. 33:38.915 --> 33:42.165 But then if they chose, if what's more important 33:42.165 --> 33:45.248 to them is a particular date or time, 33:46.038 --> 33:47.708 then standard honors would be the more 33:47.708 --> 33:50.041 appropriate level of honors. 33:50.078 --> 33:51.718 And they'll have the choice to take one 33:51.718 --> 33:53.769 of the three dates or defer to standard honors 33:53.769 --> 33:55.102 at a later date. 33:56.685 --> 33:57.852 - I understand 34:00.664 --> 34:02.684 - Will standard honors come at an earlier date? 34:02.684 --> 34:05.851 - Could come at an earlier date, yeah. 34:07.107 --> 34:09.153 - To me there's two pieces to this. 34:09.153 --> 34:12.070 One, a matter of fairness, to level 34:12.478 --> 34:14.072 the playing field for people. 34:14.072 --> 34:17.655 The other is the administrative churn Renee 34:19.084 --> 34:22.456 and her team does cuts down on the customer service 34:22.456 --> 34:24.456 they could be providing. 34:24.704 --> 34:28.704 Those were the two compelling pieces in my mind. 34:29.337 --> 34:30.659 So does that clarify enough? 34:30.659 --> 34:32.025 - I'm clear - Okay, we have 34:32.025 --> 34:33.908 a motion that's been seconded. 34:33.908 --> 34:34.850 All in favor? 34:34.850 --> 34:35.767 - [All] Aye 34:35.822 --> 34:36.655 - Opposed? 34:38.039 --> 34:40.956 The next is this notion of changing 34:43.659 --> 34:46.659 the full military honor eligibility. 34:46.955 --> 34:50.538 Right now it's E9 and above, CW4 and above, 34:52.381 --> 34:54.798 and any commissioned officer. 34:55.226 --> 34:57.174 - So right not, flip to the first slide 34:57.174 --> 34:59.007 that shows the honors. 35:00.941 --> 35:02.978 I'll talk for a minute sir about 35:02.978 --> 35:04.587 where the honors comes from. 35:04.587 --> 35:07.472 This right now depicts the levels of honors offered 35:07.472 --> 35:11.639 at Arlington National Cemetery and who's eligible for them. 35:12.119 --> 35:16.119 The first category, we say most enlisted members 35:17.709 --> 35:21.536 because the caveat is that if they're killed in action 35:21.536 --> 35:25.500 as a result of hostile contact enemy forces and die wounds, 35:25.500 --> 35:27.581 they are eligible for full. 35:27.581 --> 35:30.331 That's why it says most enlisted. 35:30.530 --> 35:33.337 They receive what is the equivalent for the 35:33.337 --> 35:37.504 Department of Defense for any active duty service member, 35:38.790 --> 35:40.020 they receive that equivalent. 35:40.020 --> 35:42.541 So what I'm saying is the individual 35:42.541 --> 35:46.708 that served for one year six months that come to Arlington, 35:48.207 --> 35:50.789 they're eligible to receive the same level of honors 35:50.789 --> 35:54.956 as an active duty service member of any enlisted grade. 35:57.790 --> 36:00.540 The next level is with the caisson and 36:00.540 --> 36:03.001 marching element, and the band. 36:03.001 --> 36:07.168 That is for senior enlisted, senior noncommissioned E9s 36:07.466 --> 36:10.133 and all commissioned ranks, CW1. 36:17.657 --> 36:21.824 These levels of honors comes out of each branch of service 36:24.643 --> 36:27.514 has a salutes and honors regulations. 36:27.514 --> 36:29.597 For the Army it's AR-625. 36:30.719 --> 36:32.343 You can actually pull these straight out 36:32.343 --> 36:35.260 of 625 by paragraph, but they apply 36:36.111 --> 36:39.194 for active duty service members only. 36:42.945 --> 36:47.112 Depart of Defense has a DODI 1300.15 that articulates 36:49.385 --> 36:52.149 what we attempt to do for all veterans, 36:52.149 --> 36:53.982 specifically retirees. 36:54.777 --> 36:57.777 That's where we get to at least two. 36:58.073 --> 37:01.369 One from the veteran's branch of service. 37:01.369 --> 37:04.953 The intent of that is someone to play the musical bugle 37:04.953 --> 37:06.549 and one to present the flag. 37:06.549 --> 37:09.549 That's what the two individuals are. 37:10.162 --> 37:14.036 When possible, provide other things based upon the resources 37:14.036 --> 37:18.203 that are available in the geographical region they are in. 37:19.109 --> 37:23.276 That's the regulatory background to what these are. 37:26.323 --> 37:30.490 The point that I want to make is, this is 2016 data, 37:38.003 --> 37:42.170 one third of the full military honor services went 37:44.306 --> 37:48.473 to service members who are only above ground eligible. 37:51.171 --> 37:54.171 That means went to the columbariums. 37:54.755 --> 37:58.005 In the ranks of company grade officers. 38:03.154 --> 38:06.769 A third of our resource, and we figured that out, 38:06.769 --> 38:10.762 it's about two months worth of full honor caissons, 38:10.762 --> 38:14.429 went to that level of service to the nation. 38:17.439 --> 38:21.106 What we're proposing is that we look at that 38:21.950 --> 38:26.117 and we modify the population to the field grade levels. 38:28.557 --> 38:32.187 This would be non-active duty service members. 38:32.187 --> 38:35.604 This would be keeping the active duty AR, 38:36.364 --> 38:38.672 complying with the AR where we can. 38:38.672 --> 38:41.755 This would be the captains and below. 38:47.770 --> 38:49.187 - CW3s and below. 38:49.486 --> 38:52.296 - Correct CW3s and below. - That's the change. 38:52.296 --> 38:56.463 - That would free up a third of the full military honors. 38:58.630 --> 39:02.797 What the issue is we want to get enough research to make 39:06.877 --> 39:11.044 sure we understand what has to be done to make that happen 39:11.798 --> 39:14.745 and make it equitable across all services. 39:14.745 --> 39:18.912 And to understand what those numbers really look like. 39:21.230 --> 39:25.397 So I guess what the committee is recommending is that 39:26.014 --> 39:29.750 we support this notion, but want them to come back with 39:29.750 --> 39:33.917 enough research to help make that definitive recommendation. 39:41.795 --> 39:45.628 - Sir, when I read this E9, we're also talking 39:47.354 --> 39:50.521 about CW0,1,2,3,4 and now we have CW5. 39:53.609 --> 39:54.609 Right? - Yep. 39:55.523 --> 39:59.356 - This would be CW4 and 5s what you can equate 40:01.615 --> 40:04.271 to what used to be the commissioned warrant officers. 40:04.271 --> 40:05.669 Then they made the threes commissioned 40:05.669 --> 40:08.114 and now they're all commissioned. 40:08.114 --> 40:09.864 And the O4 and above. 40:09.891 --> 40:12.701 - But those that were not commissioned-- 40:12.701 --> 40:14.371 - They're all commissioned now. 40:14.371 --> 40:15.621 - If the word-- 40:16.893 --> 40:20.060 - We would just apply at W4 and above. 40:21.738 --> 40:25.238 - O4s is there a reason we stopped at O4s? 40:25.262 --> 40:27.904 Would it help to have higher rank? 40:27.904 --> 40:30.927 - Field grade, that's basically the cut off. 40:30.927 --> 40:33.927 - Is that like a massive population? 40:34.800 --> 40:38.054 - She didn't see the slides that had some 40:38.054 --> 40:39.288 of the data behind it. 40:39.288 --> 40:43.455 - Of course I can go to those, but I can use an example. 40:43.783 --> 40:47.200 As of August there are 265 thousand folks 40:47.717 --> 40:51.884 who would be currently, even they get eligible on pay grade, 40:52.608 --> 40:56.775 265 thousand commissioned officers in E9 and above 40:56.878 --> 40:58.545 in the active force. 40:58.866 --> 41:03.033 If we were to transition to this, that 265 thousand becomes 41:03.604 --> 41:06.104 95 thousand, a big difference. 41:11.986 --> 41:14.172 - That's alright, I didn't know if we needed 41:14.172 --> 41:15.755 to go O5 and above. 41:16.845 --> 41:21.012 - You're saying you'd have services 57% sooner? 41:23.680 --> 41:27.847 - Based on that one quarter's worth of data, yes sir. 41:32.945 --> 41:37.112 I'll share with the group that actual suggestion came 41:37.776 --> 41:40.311 from the honor guards themselves. 41:40.311 --> 41:44.061 It came from the caisson and the honor guards 41:46.539 --> 41:49.895 who've been discussing this and the challenge 41:49.895 --> 41:52.340 for full military honors and the waits for some time. 41:52.340 --> 41:54.575 - Can I ask y'all's opinion while we're hear together 41:54.575 --> 41:56.532 today talking about this? 41:56.532 --> 41:58.826 I can see it's very difficult to go to someone 41:58.826 --> 42:02.493 who has served our country 20 years and say, 42:02.866 --> 42:05.387 "I know you thought you were going to be buried one day at 42:05.387 --> 42:08.957 "Arlington but we're going to change that." 42:08.957 --> 42:11.948 I wonder how many people know who are in the service 42:11.948 --> 42:16.115 or retired now for X number of years know at what level 42:17.341 --> 42:21.508 of full military honors they're going to get or not get? 42:21.548 --> 42:25.715 What's hard, at least politically, is taking away things, 42:27.048 --> 42:28.548 benefits they had. 42:30.007 --> 42:32.255 Whether it's healthcare benefits or some other benefit. 42:32.255 --> 42:34.670 Taking away a benefit that most people didn't know anything 42:34.670 --> 42:36.903 about isn't nearly as difficult. 42:36.903 --> 42:40.457 I wouldn't think Congress wouldn't be as likely 42:40.457 --> 42:44.117 to get involved in this kind of change as the issue 42:44.117 --> 42:47.064 of what are we going to do with the retiree's eligibility. 42:47.064 --> 42:49.064 - It's fair to say, sir. 42:49.100 --> 42:52.517 What the problem is, and I'll ask you all 42:53.124 --> 42:56.040 to look at your name tags and what is the iconic image 42:56.040 --> 42:58.395 of Arlington National Cemetery. 42:58.395 --> 43:02.178 It's a horse-drawn carriage with a set of remains. 43:02.178 --> 43:04.940 Many people think if I'm eligible to go to Arlington, 43:04.940 --> 43:06.773 I'm eligible for that. 43:06.915 --> 43:10.864 Then they learn what they're actually eligible for. 43:10.864 --> 43:15.031 That's the first point, it's the education of the then do. 43:15.223 --> 43:18.427 Most individuals when we explain to them and show them 43:18.427 --> 43:20.129 what standard military honors are, 43:20.129 --> 43:22.863 they're absolutely pleased by it. 43:22.863 --> 43:26.863 Congressional issues, anytime somebody complains 43:27.085 --> 43:29.122 about the wait for full military honors, 43:29.122 --> 43:31.611 I'll be perfectly honest with everybody here. 43:31.611 --> 43:33.980 When we explain to Congress and say we've given them 43:33.980 --> 43:37.217 the opportunity to come sooner with standard, 43:37.217 --> 43:39.467 we never hear another word. 43:39.554 --> 43:43.721 Because it is above and beyond what even DOD gives 43:46.131 --> 43:49.776 to an active duty service member that is killed. 43:49.776 --> 43:53.943 If a service member dies on active duty or in theater 43:55.730 --> 43:57.780 and doesn't come to Arlington, 43:57.780 --> 43:59.817 they receive standard military honors, 43:59.817 --> 44:02.234 killed in action burial also. 44:02.868 --> 44:04.569 - May I say something? 44:04.569 --> 44:06.286 I agree with you, sir. 44:06.286 --> 44:09.171 I think that perception will be by most 44:09.171 --> 44:11.738 of the service organizations and retirees 44:11.738 --> 44:15.905 that this is a further erosion of vows for those affected. 44:16.993 --> 44:19.834 I think that would be the perception. 44:19.834 --> 44:22.583 Of course you can explain and talk to them about it, 44:22.583 --> 44:26.500 but even though they didn't know to begin with. 44:27.794 --> 44:30.936 Someone will put on a website somewhere 44:30.936 --> 44:33.655 this is a further erosion of benefits, 44:33.655 --> 44:36.297 healthcare you know you had stated. 44:36.297 --> 44:38.667 All this time, that will be the perception. 44:38.667 --> 44:42.282 - That's the kind of honest response I was looking for. 44:42.282 --> 44:44.925 Let me ask you this, given that reaction, 44:44.925 --> 44:49.092 how would be your guess most people would respond if we said 44:50.347 --> 44:54.514 we're going to let families get closure 57% sooner. 44:56.027 --> 45:00.027 They're going to get their services much sooner. 45:01.692 --> 45:03.942 Would that have any impact? 45:04.730 --> 45:06.203 - I don't think it would sway them. 45:06.203 --> 45:07.676 - Wouldn't sway them? - I don't think so. 45:07.676 --> 45:10.593 I think only way you could possibly sway it would be what 45:10.593 --> 45:14.678 Deb said is grandfather, but that doesn't fix the problem. 45:14.678 --> 45:17.093 Because the population we're dealing with are those 45:17.093 --> 45:20.025 that have already served that's the largest population 45:20.025 --> 45:21.692 that's being buried. 45:22.197 --> 45:24.156 All those World War II company commanders, 45:24.156 --> 45:27.117 Korea company commanders, Vietnam company commanders 45:27.117 --> 45:31.284 that served during that period who may or may not understand 45:31.962 --> 45:34.129 what their entitlement is. 45:34.727 --> 45:37.202 - Would you think most of them, would Vietnam merit veterans 45:37.202 --> 45:41.369 know what kind of military honors they're eligible for. 45:42.078 --> 45:44.083 - I don't think they would. - Absolutely not. 45:44.083 --> 45:45.916 - That's what I think. 45:45.951 --> 45:48.062 That's why I think the research is important. 45:48.062 --> 45:51.252 What is it we have to do to publicize this? 45:51.252 --> 45:55.419 That's why I think the first topic that we addressed 45:56.431 --> 46:00.264 was good because it's a simple process change. 46:00.501 --> 46:03.068 This is a little more complicated, 46:03.068 --> 46:05.651 but I think if we did it right. 46:07.321 --> 46:10.238 Here's a constrain on the resources 46:10.267 --> 46:14.434 and we're going to give you this wonderful standard honors. 46:15.750 --> 46:19.699 You wouldn't get much blowback, there will be some. 46:19.699 --> 46:22.949 I think you never make everybody happy. 46:22.980 --> 46:27.147 - I think that what we revealed in the last two days 46:33.126 --> 46:33.998 is Renee is absolutely right. 46:33.998 --> 46:37.127 At Ft. Leonard Wood we have a seven state area 46:37.127 --> 46:39.794 where we provide funeral detail. 46:40.605 --> 46:43.339 Each active duty installation has its possibility 46:43.339 --> 46:46.118 for a certain geographic area around it, 46:46.118 --> 46:48.427 and we don't even come close to what's described 46:48.427 --> 46:50.918 at Arlington as full military honors. 46:50.918 --> 46:52.042 It's not even close. 46:52.042 --> 46:55.959 It's some pallbearers, a flag bearer, a bugler, 46:57.798 --> 47:00.000 and we're beyond the electronic thing. 47:00.000 --> 47:04.167 We provide that as often as we can for a seven state area 47:06.212 --> 47:08.445 around Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri. 47:08.445 --> 47:12.500 It's nothing close to the debate we're having here. 47:12.500 --> 47:14.232 - And people appreciate it. 47:14.232 --> 47:18.149 They will appreciate the active duty showing up 47:18.712 --> 47:22.879 at the VA cemetery as opposed to what the VSOs do. 47:27.628 --> 47:31.683 - But my point is full military honors with the caisson 47:31.683 --> 47:35.016 and all that, nobody gets that anywhere. 47:35.571 --> 47:36.988 Nobody gets that. 47:37.622 --> 47:41.205 So, yeah, I think the way you explain it is 47:41.859 --> 47:46.026 that's why it's reserved for only those special people. 47:48.755 --> 47:50.005 It's a realism. 47:54.374 --> 47:57.169 I die at Ft. Leonard Wood tomorrow, there's going 47:57.169 --> 47:59.205 to be a whole bunch of volunteers that say, 47:59.205 --> 48:00.921 "Hey, I'll do Farley's funeral." 48:00.921 --> 48:03.580 And I'll get a flag bearer, some pallbearers 48:03.580 --> 48:06.147 and they're gonna give my wife a flag 48:06.147 --> 48:08.120 and that's the end of it. 48:08.120 --> 48:12.287 Nobody expects a horse and caisson and none of that. 48:13.285 --> 48:16.202 So the expectations is only because 48:16.321 --> 48:18.904 of Arlington National Cemetery. 48:19.208 --> 48:23.041 - To me it's a bit about the iconic nature and 48:29.095 --> 48:31.054 that it doesn't have to be for everybody. 48:31.054 --> 48:31.887 It's okay. 48:34.076 --> 48:36.493 - In addition sir, at the VA, 48:37.220 --> 48:40.334 the National Cemetery Administration VA cemeteries, 48:40.334 --> 48:44.501 the Army and the Air Force said two or three years ago 48:45.376 --> 48:48.596 you are only going to get a two man detail. 48:48.596 --> 48:50.313 Only the Marine Corps said you're gonna get 48:50.313 --> 48:52.313 a full seven man detail. 48:52.469 --> 48:55.802 That was considered full honors compared 48:56.130 --> 48:59.380 to verbage what full honors means here. 49:00.489 --> 49:03.602 There are different perceptions on what full honors 49:03.602 --> 49:06.519 constitutes no matter where you go. 49:06.625 --> 49:10.792 - My most frequent response is when a family will tell 49:13.006 --> 49:15.297 a Congressman they were denied full military honors 49:15.297 --> 49:17.682 at Arlington National Cemetery, 49:17.682 --> 49:20.917 it's generally for an enlisted service member 49:20.917 --> 49:25.084 who served potentially in World War II, Korea, or Vietnam. 49:26.567 --> 49:28.572 When you explain what they're getting, 49:28.572 --> 49:30.243 the Congressman they're like, 49:30.243 --> 49:32.733 "Oh they're getting full military honors". 49:32.733 --> 49:35.558 It gets into what we talked a little bit yesterday about. 49:35.558 --> 49:39.725 For me it's more a little more expanded military honors 49:39.750 --> 49:43.917 then full, 'cause full is really what we're providing. 49:47.284 --> 49:51.188 - Despite the more limited honors at the VA cemetery, 49:51.188 --> 49:54.105 the VA customer service ready unit, 49:56.093 --> 49:58.781 isn't it one of the highest public or private sector-- 49:58.781 --> 50:02.948 - Yes, and it has always been touted that they have the 50:03.277 --> 50:06.944 highest customer service satisfaction award. 50:11.084 --> 50:15.001 I think the way the service question is written 50:17.648 --> 50:21.815 and people would accept that because they don't understand 50:22.139 --> 50:26.056 that there is even a higher level at Arlington. 50:26.619 --> 50:30.690 It goes back to what do they know about military honors. 50:30.690 --> 50:34.690 Mostly your constituency at the VA cemetery say, 50:35.869 --> 50:38.286 "Boy we had seven men show up 50:39.241 --> 50:41.352 "and somebody played a real bugle 50:41.352 --> 50:45.435 "and they presented the flag to the next of kin." 50:45.772 --> 50:49.939 That constitutes the highest level of satisfaction. 50:51.345 --> 50:53.077 And the survey reads that way. 50:53.077 --> 50:56.494 - 'Cause they generally have an n of one. 50:57.391 --> 51:01.558 - I think two I would say that I think are as close 51:01.889 --> 51:04.377 to empirical data you can get. 51:04.377 --> 51:08.544 The further away from a military reservation you get, 51:08.600 --> 51:11.100 the less expectation you have. 51:11.166 --> 51:13.499 I think it's true for today. 51:20.401 --> 51:24.517 Then as you get that survey, that expectation level, 51:24.517 --> 51:28.684 those are the ones that are not going to get the pushback 51:29.347 --> 51:32.264 because they never know any better. 51:33.296 --> 51:37.094 Again it goes back to yesterday in our subcommittee meeting. 51:37.094 --> 51:41.011 We had a talk and Jean's that's in the 1%. 51:42.226 --> 51:45.507 There's just so much of America that is out of touch 51:45.507 --> 51:48.287 with what military expectations are today. 51:48.287 --> 51:50.352 'Cause there's not that many. 51:50.352 --> 51:53.360 In World War II you had five million people serving 51:53.360 --> 51:55.699 on active duty and today we're lucky 51:55.699 --> 51:58.690 if we've got 1.2 in all four services right now. 51:58.690 --> 52:02.273 Current number is about 1.2 million people. 52:02.320 --> 52:06.487 There's a big drop off of awareness and education. 52:11.874 --> 52:13.544 - I would be interested to see also 52:13.544 --> 52:16.794 if we're gonna slice the retiree issue. 52:19.392 --> 52:22.725 What people are looking at as a retiree. 52:23.067 --> 52:25.270 Would they say like 20 years someone 52:25.270 --> 52:27.184 should be coming to Arlington. 52:27.184 --> 52:28.795 You get 20 years, that's it. 52:28.795 --> 52:32.621 I know that sometimes enlisted versus officers 52:32.621 --> 52:34.121 that's a variable. 52:35.431 --> 52:39.098 Or 20 to 25 or 25 to 35, what would that do? 52:41.946 --> 52:46.113 What is the perception of what they see as a retiree, 52:47.110 --> 52:49.610 or if that's important at all. 52:51.029 --> 52:54.674 If we go back to a life-long selfless service, 52:54.674 --> 52:57.970 kind of with Westpoint, just selfless service. 52:57.970 --> 53:01.887 How long, is that something you can be measured 53:02.329 --> 53:04.329 or should it be anybody. 53:06.156 --> 53:10.323 Definitely met all matter, indescribable sacrifice, 53:13.219 --> 53:14.636 killed in action. 53:15.406 --> 53:19.406 Are there categories of sacrifice and or service 53:20.602 --> 53:23.896 that should be highlighted since we want 53:23.896 --> 53:26.313 to make this a special place. 53:28.255 --> 53:32.088 I don't know if that's another way to slice it 53:32.280 --> 53:36.447 and look at it before we just say this is it and done. 53:38.325 --> 53:40.285 That's just another side of the pyramid 53:40.285 --> 53:42.035 that might be useful. 53:44.917 --> 53:48.547 - Whatever the final decision, Renee can I ask this. 53:48.547 --> 53:52.714 Is it just at Arlington the term standard military honors. 53:53.043 --> 53:56.793 That's not in the law, that's not nationwide. 53:58.349 --> 54:00.932 Whoever came up with standard-- 54:01.898 --> 54:03.781 - It's in the military-- 54:03.781 --> 54:05.877 - It might sound like marketing but to make 54:05.877 --> 54:10.044 the family feel better, I'd call it high and highest. 54:12.484 --> 54:14.401 - It comes out of the-- 54:14.732 --> 54:18.815 I would prefer to call it military funeral honors 54:18.908 --> 54:21.445 and expanded military funeral honors. 54:21.445 --> 54:25.445 The expanded piece is elements that are added on 54:25.485 --> 54:28.318 based on the individual's service. 54:30.392 --> 54:32.559 If I were queen for a day. 54:33.383 --> 54:37.256 - Just the word standard, you're a standard person 54:37.256 --> 54:39.868 who served our country for 10 or 20 years. 54:39.868 --> 54:43.013 - It came from that's the minimum standard at Arlington. 54:43.013 --> 54:44.166 That's where it comes from. 54:44.166 --> 54:45.306 - Maybe you can come up 54:45.306 --> 54:47.720 with a better term. - Better term. 54:47.720 --> 54:49.027 - Make people feel better. 54:49.027 --> 54:51.194 - Marketing consultations. 54:52.307 --> 54:54.236 (laughing) 54:54.236 --> 54:57.986 I would like to go back to this, I don't know 55:00.524 --> 55:04.691 if we got a motion or not to support the additional research 55:05.400 --> 55:09.400 and general notion of support to the restriction 55:13.789 --> 55:16.706 to field grade and above basically. 55:17.124 --> 55:18.813 - Do the research - More research 55:18.813 --> 55:20.331 - We'll come back to you. 55:20.331 --> 55:22.998 It's a due out to the committee. 55:23.795 --> 55:27.962 - Can we look at hire grade too, like O5 and above? 55:29.521 --> 55:32.832 - Yes, we'll expand the research in this category. 55:32.832 --> 55:34.502 - You know one thing that's interesting, 55:34.502 --> 55:36.919 sir with a category like this 55:37.313 --> 55:41.480 if we attack the retiree population at another time, 55:41.944 --> 55:45.611 officers are going to get double whammy bad. 55:46.941 --> 55:48.900 Because the majority of retirees are enlisted people. 55:48.900 --> 55:52.900 You're already elimination the O3s, O2s, and O1s 55:56.540 --> 55:58.955 and then if you attack the retiree population 55:58.955 --> 56:01.051 of the majority officer retiree population is going 56:01.051 --> 56:03.384 to be field grade and above. 56:03.420 --> 56:06.337 They're going to get whammied both. 56:08.296 --> 56:09.982 You have to be careful. 56:09.982 --> 56:14.149 If you go to the next chart, because the enlisted population 56:15.829 --> 56:19.656 in all services is so much greater than officers, 56:19.656 --> 56:22.694 all of those categories are more represented 56:22.694 --> 56:26.861 by enlisted soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines. 56:27.053 --> 56:29.720 They're just a lot more of them. 56:30.776 --> 56:32.703 - Go to those slide, Shane, that shows 56:32.703 --> 56:36.870 who received full military honors in the snapshot we had. 56:40.586 --> 56:44.003 Make sure everybody gets a sense for who's really 56:44.003 --> 56:48.170 the bulk of receiving, field grades are the bulk anyway. 56:51.293 --> 56:55.460 Field grades are already the ones that are the bulk. 56:56.199 --> 56:58.699 Senior enlisted is very small. 57:00.042 --> 57:03.709 The company grade and the warrant officer... 57:12.755 --> 57:16.588 We're nibbling at the edges, as I like to say. 57:18.496 --> 57:20.045 - I was referring to this slide. 57:20.045 --> 57:24.212 I was referring to those that receive killed in action. 57:25.422 --> 57:27.578 Majority of people killed in action are going 57:27.578 --> 57:29.411 to be an enlisted guy. 57:29.629 --> 57:32.757 I'm saying if you to the second to the last slide 57:32.757 --> 57:35.977 and you go across the top those categories, 57:35.977 --> 57:38.227 killed in action, retirees. 57:38.271 --> 57:41.688 The largest majority of those populations 57:42.631 --> 57:45.289 are enlisted soldiers, airmen, and marines. 57:45.289 --> 57:46.958 - You're referring to this chart? 57:46.958 --> 57:49.541 - Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 57:50.270 --> 57:54.437 So by eliminating CW1, 2 and 3; O3, O2, O1, then next time 57:55.783 --> 57:59.950 come back and say we're also going to attack retirees. 57:59.959 --> 58:02.010 Then you get into field grade population, 58:02.010 --> 58:04.177 the senior NCO population. 58:05.276 --> 58:09.443 We got to be, what are the 2nd and 3rd order effects? 58:16.521 --> 58:18.798 This is on the edges, this is the peripheral-- 58:18.798 --> 58:20.195 - This is about two things. 58:20.195 --> 58:22.093 This is about full military honors, 58:22.093 --> 58:25.593 it's not about restricting the population. 58:27.226 --> 58:30.128 - Like we said they're still going to get buried here 58:30.128 --> 58:33.545 and they're still going to have standard, 58:33.621 --> 58:37.788 which is above and beyond what everybody else gets. 58:41.276 --> 58:43.859 - Any other discussion on this? 58:45.133 --> 58:46.744 There's one other item. 58:46.744 --> 58:49.811 We did during our administrative fact finding 58:49.811 --> 58:52.651 consider updating our business rules. 58:52.651 --> 58:56.818 I need a motion to adopt, change, or vote on those rules. 58:58.378 --> 59:01.035 Is there any concern about those 59:01.035 --> 59:03.618 or do I have a motion to adopt? 59:04.863 --> 59:05.941 - What are we changing? 59:05.941 --> 59:07.774 - The business rules-- 59:08.072 --> 59:10.483 - The updated business rules that were presented. 59:10.483 --> 59:12.746 If they're acceptable or if there's 59:12.746 --> 59:15.496 any recommended changes to those. 59:16.375 --> 59:17.208 - Second 59:18.061 --> 59:22.228 - Okay, we have a motion to adopt and it's been seconded. 59:22.815 --> 59:24.398 Further discussion. 59:25.549 --> 59:26.632 All in favor? 59:27.068 --> 59:27.985 - [All] Aye 59:28.101 --> 59:28.934 - Opposed 59:30.895 --> 59:32.812 Is there anything else? 59:33.553 --> 59:37.185 - Two administrative things, members I believe each 59:37.185 --> 59:39.006 of you should have been provided a letter that 59:39.006 --> 59:43.173 the cemetery received regarding the Confederate Memorial. 59:44.444 --> 59:48.408 I can give you a, did you put it in the binders? 59:48.408 --> 59:50.408 - I put it on the table. 59:58.733 --> 01:00:00.900 - A little bit of history. 01:00:01.802 --> 01:00:03.457 The Daughters of the Confederacy are the ones 01:00:03.457 --> 01:00:07.457 that actually donated and proffered the monument 01:00:07.527 --> 01:00:08.860 to the cemetery. 01:00:10.702 --> 01:00:13.740 President Wilson the one that accepted it. 01:00:13.740 --> 01:00:16.240 There was a dedication for it. 01:00:17.217 --> 01:00:21.384 It does sit surrounded by Confederate service members 01:00:28.032 --> 01:00:30.902 that were buried here and some of them were relocated 01:00:30.902 --> 01:00:33.985 from the Alexandria National Cemetery 01:00:34.064 --> 01:00:37.147 and brought to Arlington at the time. 01:00:37.494 --> 01:00:40.790 The cemetery received this request mostly just 01:00:40.790 --> 01:00:44.131 to let us know their position on it remaining in place 01:00:44.131 --> 01:00:48.298 despite all the other activities about Confederate monuments 01:00:49.282 --> 01:00:52.032 and memorials across the country. 01:00:52.272 --> 01:00:55.689 The Army's policy is the Army will follow 01:00:57.512 --> 01:01:00.717 whatever Congress directs as it relates 01:01:00.717 --> 01:01:03.967 to those types of monuments that are in 01:01:04.438 --> 01:01:06.549 Arlington National Cemetery. 01:01:06.549 --> 01:01:10.133 To remove it, often a question we get asked. 01:01:10.133 --> 01:01:13.633 To remove it would take an Act of Congress 01:01:13.854 --> 01:01:16.499 or the President because the President is the one 01:01:16.499 --> 01:01:18.666 that accepted the proffer. 01:01:20.507 --> 01:01:22.253 It would take and equivalent to have it 01:01:22.253 --> 01:01:23.985 removed from the cemetery. 01:01:23.985 --> 01:01:27.326 All questions related to Confederate names, 01:01:27.326 --> 01:01:30.547 Confederate street names or building names 01:01:30.547 --> 01:01:33.214 or monuments are referred to our 01:01:33.690 --> 01:01:37.690 Department of the Army Public Affairs to answer. 01:01:37.700 --> 01:01:41.867 We did acknowledge back to them that we received it. 01:01:45.103 --> 01:01:48.820 At this time there's absolutely no plans to make any changes 01:01:48.820 --> 01:01:51.035 to anything that's named or placed 01:01:51.035 --> 01:01:53.618 at Arlington National Cemetery. 01:01:55.075 --> 01:01:57.075 Any questions, concerns. 01:01:57.579 --> 01:02:00.270 - Do they ever come and put a big Confederate flag 01:02:00.270 --> 01:02:01.520 in front of it? 01:02:01.604 --> 01:02:05.771 - No mam, on Confederate Memorial Day they're allowed 01:02:07.254 --> 01:02:09.472 to come in, place the Confederate flag at the gravesites, 01:02:09.472 --> 01:02:13.238 and then they're removed at the end of the day. 01:02:13.238 --> 01:02:16.337 On Confederate Memorial Day, and that is in the 01:02:16.337 --> 01:02:18.797 Code of Federal Relations that allows them to do that. 01:02:18.797 --> 01:02:20.361 It's just the small flag. 01:02:20.361 --> 01:02:23.293 It can't be any larger than the smaller US flags 01:02:23.293 --> 01:02:25.951 that are placed on Memorial Day. 01:02:25.951 --> 01:02:29.268 On the US Memorial Day, the US flag is placed 01:02:29.268 --> 01:02:30.932 at those graves as well. 01:02:30.932 --> 01:02:32.557 - Who is Moses Ezeke? 01:02:32.557 --> 01:02:36.307 - He was the designer of the actual monument. 01:02:38.663 --> 01:02:42.080 Who designed the monument as it is today. 01:02:44.252 --> 01:02:47.752 - Confederate soldiers by name that are on 01:02:48.170 --> 01:02:50.114 that monument or is it generic. 01:02:50.114 --> 01:02:51.697 - No, it's generic. 01:02:54.610 --> 01:02:57.527 It was designed for recapitulation. 01:03:00.835 --> 01:03:03.675 - Are there ever any protests or anything like that? 01:03:03.675 --> 01:03:06.561 - You can't protest on Arlington National Cemetery, mam. 01:03:06.561 --> 01:03:08.644 The answer to that is no. 01:03:08.946 --> 01:03:12.446 And we've not had anybody ask for a permit 01:03:13.032 --> 01:03:15.699 to protest outside the cemetery. 01:03:18.925 --> 01:03:22.092 And Congress, we don't have the power. 01:03:26.974 --> 01:03:28.722 - What are we supposed to with this? 01:03:28.722 --> 01:03:30.437 - Acknowledge that you received it. 01:03:30.437 --> 01:03:34.604 If they came addressed to each of you in envelopes 01:03:35.143 --> 01:03:39.310 in the care of me, so my obligation is to make sure 01:03:39.842 --> 01:03:42.092 I provide that note to you. 01:03:42.485 --> 01:03:44.485 It's very informational. 01:03:47.709 --> 01:03:50.352 Next meeting dates, I think we talked 01:03:50.352 --> 01:03:54.012 the Honor Subcommittee will be planning for a meeting 01:03:54.012 --> 01:03:54.929 in January. 01:03:55.867 --> 01:04:00.034 I would like this body to consider a potential meeting date 01:04:01.092 --> 01:04:05.259 sometime late February, early March for the full committee. 01:04:09.094 --> 01:04:12.844 Dates of availability or lack of availability 01:04:15.139 --> 01:04:19.139 to make sure we have a quorum is what I request. 01:04:20.941 --> 01:04:25.108 I'm prepare to copy on dates that are not conducive. 01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:31.391 - Is there a particular date in January 01:04:31.391 --> 01:04:33.046 for the Armistice Committee? 01:04:33.046 --> 01:04:36.190 - I'm putting those together, but it would be one 01:04:36.190 --> 01:04:38.940 of the last two weeks of January. 01:04:39.441 --> 01:04:43.608 - Can we suggest that maybe we fill a (mumbling) surveys. 01:04:44.878 --> 01:04:46.898 - No I don't serve it on prepare to copy. 01:04:46.898 --> 01:04:49.648 - A lot of people are using that. 01:04:57.859 --> 01:05:00.620 It's a survey that says here's some windows of dates, 01:05:00.620 --> 01:05:02.537 when are you available? 01:05:02.610 --> 01:05:04.943 - I can look into that, sir. 01:05:08.147 --> 01:05:09.897 - Microsoft calendar? 01:05:14.338 --> 01:05:17.479 - Send it to you to provide your availability? 01:05:17.479 --> 01:05:18.396 Got it sir. 01:05:18.462 --> 01:05:22.000 - Renee would you know in late February or early March, 01:05:22.000 --> 01:05:23.519 can you estimate how quickly you can make 01:05:23.519 --> 01:05:25.099 a decision on that? 01:05:25.099 --> 01:05:28.000 I teach at Baylor two weeks each semester 01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:30.126 and I haven't scheduled my two weeks. 01:05:30.126 --> 01:05:32.587 If I knew when we were meeting here, 01:05:32.587 --> 01:05:35.246 I could then schedule Baylor around it. 01:05:35.246 --> 01:05:37.082 Once I schedule Baylor, I'm locked in. 01:05:37.082 --> 01:05:41.249 - I will make the attempt to settle all these dates 01:05:42.200 --> 01:05:46.317 by the end of next week, is that close enough sir? 01:05:46.317 --> 01:05:50.067 - Do you have dates that you're trying to do? 01:05:50.221 --> 01:05:51.830 - I haven't set any up. 01:05:51.830 --> 01:05:55.580 If I've got a real problem I'll let you know. 01:06:07.383 --> 01:06:11.466 - Early February looks like it would work for me, 01:06:11.665 --> 01:06:13.415 1st week or 2nd week. 01:06:20.247 --> 01:06:24.330 - Honors before January 6th will not work for me. 01:06:25.745 --> 01:06:27.857 - Sir we will work for the end of the month. 01:06:27.857 --> 01:06:30.894 Probably somewhere around the 23rd or the 30th. 01:06:30.894 --> 01:06:33.144 Kind of the last two weeks. 01:06:33.172 --> 01:06:35.769 The intent would be able to provide you 01:06:35.769 --> 01:06:38.885 with a good product for the Honors Subcommittee. 01:06:38.885 --> 01:06:41.452 - So sometime in the last two weeks. 01:06:41.452 --> 01:06:44.229 - More likely the last week because of some things 01:06:44.229 --> 01:06:46.069 that are going on at the cemetery 01:06:46.069 --> 01:06:48.319 the week of the 23rd, 24th. 01:06:50.320 --> 01:06:52.737 - The 31st won't work for me. 01:07:01.423 --> 01:07:03.367 - We'll do some research into this Google survey, 01:07:03.367 --> 01:07:07.224 try to get that out and send some proposed dates. 01:07:07.224 --> 01:07:10.891 I don't hear any significant challenges now. 01:07:11.720 --> 01:07:15.887 Sir, we'll mail those so you can get your schedule up. 01:07:19.465 --> 01:07:20.882 So anything else? 01:07:21.102 --> 01:07:22.852 - Any other business? 01:07:22.909 --> 01:07:24.261 I'm hearing none. 01:07:24.261 --> 01:07:26.084 Do I have a motion to adjourn? 01:07:26.084 --> 01:07:29.410 - Send Ross Davis a note saying we missed him today. 01:07:29.410 --> 01:07:30.243 - Yes. 01:07:31.308 --> 01:07:35.225 - I miss his smile, his personality, his ideas. 01:07:36.442 --> 01:07:38.067 - We stand adjourned. 01:07:38.067 --> 01:07:40.650 - Take care Tom, save travels.