WEBVTT 00:00.489 --> 00:03.952 - Welcome to this week's 9/11 Military Commissions Hearings 00:03.952 --> 00:05.282 closing press conference. 00:05.282 --> 00:06.878 This week it'll be a little bit different. 00:06.878 --> 00:08.513 The prosecution isn't going to be 00:08.513 --> 00:10.161 part of the press conference. 00:10.161 --> 00:11.752 We're gonna start off with the defense team, 00:11.752 --> 00:13.915 and then after that we're going to move on 00:13.915 --> 00:17.134 to the VFMs, the Victim Family Members. 00:17.134 --> 00:18.551 And so with that, 00:18.713 --> 00:21.046 I'll open it up to you, Jay. 00:25.087 --> 00:25.942 - Good afternoon. 00:25.942 --> 00:27.030 My name is James Connell, 00:27.030 --> 00:28.750 C-O-N-N-E-L-L. 00:28.750 --> 00:30.737 Along with Lieutenant Colonel Sterling Thomas 00:30.737 --> 00:33.555 of the United States Air Force, Major Jason Warram, 00:33.555 --> 00:37.276 of the United States Marine Corps, and Al Cooper Don, 00:37.276 --> 00:39.005 I represent Ammar al Baluchi. 00:39.005 --> 00:40.588 As an opening note, 00:40.718 --> 00:43.385 I would like to extend my thanks 00:43.404 --> 00:44.745 to the Victim Family Members 00:44.745 --> 00:47.234 for attending this week's hearings. 00:47.234 --> 00:49.754 Although we didn't have an opportunity to meet with them, 00:49.754 --> 00:53.356 they are always in our thoughts and our prayers. 00:53.356 --> 00:55.648 There's very little we can do to make 00:55.648 --> 00:56.775 their lives any better, 00:56.775 --> 01:00.397 but we can try to not make their lives worse. 01:00.397 --> 01:01.230 And the 01:05.261 --> 01:08.349 Victim Family Members and the horrible events 01:08.349 --> 01:10.773 of 9/11 are never far from our thoughts, 01:10.773 --> 01:12.782 even when it looks like we're arguing 01:12.782 --> 01:15.199 about some other legal issue, 01:15.683 --> 01:19.850 whether that be torture or hostilities or something else. 01:20.878 --> 01:23.541 We actually made a significant step forward 01:23.541 --> 01:27.708 in this 25th Hearing of the Military Commissions this week 01:28.588 --> 01:32.755 because we began to plan for one of the necessary hearings 01:34.692 --> 01:38.701 that has to happen before the case can proceed to trial. 01:38.701 --> 01:40.620 There are a couple of major hearings 01:40.620 --> 01:42.395 that will happen in the case, 01:42.395 --> 01:45.027 and one of them is the resolution of the question 01:45.027 --> 01:47.110 of personal jurisdiction. 01:47.497 --> 01:49.849 The Military Commission has already issued orders 01:49.849 --> 01:52.645 establishing that the prosecution bears the burden 01:52.645 --> 01:54.881 of proving personal jurisdiction, 01:54.881 --> 01:57.964 but this week we debated the question 01:58.154 --> 02:02.321 of what is necessary to prove personal jurisdiction. 02:02.595 --> 02:05.457 We learned a few things of significance 02:05.457 --> 02:06.991 during the course of that. 02:06.991 --> 02:10.666 One of them is that the prosecution hasn't taken 02:10.666 --> 02:14.833 a specific position on when the War on Terror began, 02:15.315 --> 02:17.732 that being August 23 of 1996, 02:19.337 --> 02:23.504 when Osama Bin Laden issued a statement calling for 02:24.153 --> 02:26.343 violence against Americans. 02:26.343 --> 02:29.925 The prosecution position gives that statement 02:29.925 --> 02:32.092 by a non-state actor known 02:32.615 --> 02:34.488 even at the time to be a terrorist, 02:34.488 --> 02:36.952 the weight of international law, 02:36.952 --> 02:40.440 the equivalent of a declaration of a war by Congress. 02:40.440 --> 02:43.067 Our position is that's not accurate. 02:43.067 --> 02:47.234 That hostilities, in the formal sense, did not begin 02:47.296 --> 02:50.868 until October 7 of 2001, when the United States 02:50.868 --> 02:53.288 began Operation Enduring Freedom. 02:53.288 --> 02:55.690 The Military Commission heard arguments this week 02:55.690 --> 02:59.190 on who is necessary to testify in order to 03:01.434 --> 03:05.267 come to a conclusion about when the war began. 03:06.366 --> 03:08.320 They fall into two broad categories. 03:08.320 --> 03:12.070 The first of those is people with information 03:12.319 --> 03:14.569 about United States policy. 03:14.906 --> 03:16.636 Some of those people are Cabinet level, 03:16.636 --> 03:19.365 like Secretary Powell or Secretary Rumsfeld 03:19.365 --> 03:20.848 or Attorney General Ashcroft. 03:20.848 --> 03:23.343 Some of those people are under Cabinet level, 03:23.343 --> 03:26.498 but the people who carried on the work 03:26.498 --> 03:29.147 of the United States against Al Qaida 03:29.147 --> 03:30.980 between 1996 and 2001. 03:32.257 --> 03:35.212 Those people hold a wide variety of opinions 03:35.212 --> 03:38.189 about what we did and what we should have done. 03:38.189 --> 03:41.766 One of the things that came out of this week's presentation 03:41.766 --> 03:43.625 was the possibility that we will hear 03:43.625 --> 03:45.195 from some of those people, 03:45.195 --> 03:46.969 and that they can explain their position, 03:46.969 --> 03:51.136 which should be of great interest to all Americans 03:51.745 --> 03:55.912 who lived through 9/11 and especially in finding out 03:56.694 --> 04:00.444 why did we do the things we did as a country, 04:01.020 --> 04:03.770 and what else could we have done. 04:05.311 --> 04:07.251 The only other thing that I want to add 04:07.251 --> 04:10.418 is that in an unclassified 802 session 04:11.245 --> 04:14.162 after the classified session today, 04:14.881 --> 04:17.584 the Military Commission laid out, tentatively, 04:17.584 --> 04:19.760 not committing themselves, but tentatively, 04:19.760 --> 04:22.955 that he would expect to divide the personal jurisdiction 04:22.955 --> 04:24.729 question into two parts. 04:24.729 --> 04:27.502 One involving Mr. Al-Hasawi's challenge 04:27.502 --> 04:30.074 to personal jurisdiction, which primarily addresses 04:30.074 --> 04:33.084 the existence or non-existence of hostilities 04:33.084 --> 04:34.883 from a legal perspective, 04:34.883 --> 04:38.716 which he expects could be handled in December. 04:38.745 --> 04:42.729 The second of those is Mr. al Baluchi's challenge 04:42.729 --> 04:45.411 to personal jurisdiction, which is much more fact-intensive 04:45.411 --> 04:49.362 analysis of hostilities, and he said that we should 04:49.362 --> 04:53.529 not be expecting to examine witness on Mr. al Baluchi's 04:53.724 --> 04:55.175 challenge in December. 04:55.175 --> 04:57.536 That is more likely to be in January. 04:57.536 --> 04:59.827 So with that, I'd be happy to take any questions 04:59.827 --> 05:01.494 that you might have. 05:05.483 --> 05:07.891 - [Reporter] But does that mean that the judge 05:07.891 --> 05:11.707 has sort of approved the Hasawi's team lone witness 05:11.707 --> 05:13.946 because I think the Government disputed that? 05:13.946 --> 05:14.779 Is that? 05:15.266 --> 05:17.383 - The Military Commission didn't say whether 05:17.383 --> 05:19.827 he was approving the lone witness or not, 05:19.827 --> 05:22.824 but certainly the Government has witnesses, 05:22.824 --> 05:25.654 the two FBI Special Agents and two other witnesses 05:25.654 --> 05:29.004 that it intends to call on statements allegedly made 05:29.004 --> 05:31.754 by Mr. Al-Hasawi, CSRT statements 05:34.694 --> 05:36.111 and the so-called 05:36.449 --> 05:38.616 Islamic Response to D-101. 05:39.856 --> 05:43.117 In my view, it would make sense for the Government 05:43.117 --> 05:44.656 to begin calling its witnesses, 05:44.656 --> 05:47.765 and then Mr. Al-Hasawi could call his witness 05:47.765 --> 05:50.626 if he chose to do so when the Government and the prosec. 05:50.626 --> 05:51.459 Excuse me. 05:51.459 --> 05:52.292 The Military Commission allows. 05:52.292 --> 05:54.263 So it was not an answer. 05:54.263 --> 05:55.925 He didn't tell us the answer, 05:55.925 --> 05:58.008 but he did say, you know, 05:58.158 --> 06:01.035 look, we have one small hearing and one big hearing. 06:01.035 --> 06:03.139 It makes sense to do the small hearing first, 06:03.139 --> 06:06.453 and then we'll move along and do the big hearing. 06:06.453 --> 06:08.428 - [Reporter] Did he indicate whether the other defense 06:08.428 --> 06:10.780 teams would be able to examine the witnesses 06:10.780 --> 06:13.113 even if they're not part of, 06:13.453 --> 06:15.703 are there the Hasawi motion 06:16.623 --> 06:18.722 or your jurisdictional challenge? 06:18.722 --> 06:22.639 - Counsel for Mr. Mohammed proposed a procedure 06:23.224 --> 06:26.974 whereby he and other counsel for Mr. Mohammed 06:27.963 --> 06:31.145 would examine witnesses even though they were not 06:31.145 --> 06:33.017 formally joined to the motion, 06:33.017 --> 06:35.192 basically as a matter of judicial economy. 06:35.192 --> 06:38.946 The judge directed Mr. Nevin to file a pleading about that 06:38.946 --> 06:42.529 because, understandably, when people orally 06:44.189 --> 06:45.497 come up with ideas, 06:45.497 --> 06:48.718 whether that's the judge's order about the laptops 06:48.718 --> 06:50.218 or something else. 06:50.401 --> 06:53.081 Oral presentations don't often have the same degree 06:53.081 --> 06:55.489 of thought and definite-ness to them 06:55.489 --> 06:57.528 that the written presentations do, 06:57.528 --> 07:01.111 so he asked them to file a motion about it. 07:01.766 --> 07:02.599 Yes. 07:02.599 --> 07:04.713 - [Amos] Amos Barshad, The Marshall Project. 07:04.713 --> 07:06.292 You mentioned that in the past, 07:06.292 --> 07:09.682 you've had conversations with Victim's Family Members. 07:09.682 --> 07:13.849 Can you talk a little bit about what those were like? 07:19.384 --> 07:21.548 - Victim Family Members have an enormous number 07:21.548 --> 07:24.298 of perspectives on what happened. 07:25.477 --> 07:27.778 All of them are united in grief. 07:27.778 --> 07:29.445 I'm not qualified or 07:32.297 --> 07:33.880 not even privileged 07:34.075 --> 07:37.043 be able to speak to the depths of their grief. 07:37.043 --> 07:39.777 Some family members have found it useful 07:39.777 --> 07:43.360 to speak with me and other defense counsel, 07:43.705 --> 07:47.635 either because they have things they want us to know, 07:47.635 --> 07:50.643 or they have things that they want to say to us, 07:50.643 --> 07:54.810 or they have questions that only we have the answers to. 07:55.844 --> 07:59.177 We, having participated in that process, 07:59.833 --> 08:02.468 which I think is extremely valuable to us 08:02.468 --> 08:05.310 and important in learning about the human beings 08:05.310 --> 08:06.643 behind the case. 08:08.009 --> 08:12.176 We have experienced the full range of human emotion, 08:13.438 --> 08:17.521 from anger, always grief, sometimes appreciation, 08:20.008 --> 08:24.175 sometimes hatred, and it's not possible to sort of 08:26.424 --> 08:29.490 put into a summary that there's one reaction that we get. 08:29.490 --> 08:31.617 We have had a wide variety of experiences. 08:31.617 --> 08:33.875 I think the people who have chosen to speak with us 08:33.875 --> 08:36.071 have had a wide variety of experiences. 08:36.071 --> 08:39.571 It has always been valuable to me to learn 08:40.423 --> 08:42.840 more about the human stories. 08:43.009 --> 08:46.592 And sometimes I hope it's valuable to them. 08:48.679 --> 08:52.051 - [Reporter] Can you update us anything new on what is 08:52.051 --> 08:54.144 gonna be happening with the laptops? 08:54.144 --> 08:57.536 Did that come up in a way today that you can discuss? 08:57.536 --> 09:00.043 - Because there was no open session today, 09:00.043 --> 09:02.053 the judge would not address laptop issues 09:02.053 --> 09:03.757 in a closed session for which there had been 09:03.757 --> 09:05.590 no notice and process. 09:06.740 --> 09:10.054 The only thing that really came up in the unclassified 802 09:10.054 --> 09:11.778 was that everybody who has a position should 09:11.778 --> 09:13.195 file it formally. 09:13.839 --> 09:15.929 And I do expect there will be pleadings 09:15.929 --> 09:18.384 coming from various defense teams, 09:18.384 --> 09:22.252 and from the prosecution over the next week or so. 09:22.252 --> 09:25.983 The judge did issue an order requiring an update 09:25.983 --> 09:28.900 from the Government by next Friday. 09:32.107 --> 09:33.297 - [Reporter] Does it look like something 09:33.297 --> 09:37.380 that could delay, postpone the December hearings? 09:38.876 --> 09:40.032 - Around here anything's possible. 09:40.032 --> 09:41.115 I don't know. 09:41.341 --> 09:42.356 There's also the issue, of course, 09:42.356 --> 09:45.985 with Mr. Harrington's trial and we don't know 09:45.985 --> 09:49.152 the answers about those things either. 09:51.714 --> 09:54.455 - [Reporter] Can you talk a little bit about 09:54.455 --> 09:58.170 the discovery you're seeking with the locations 09:58.170 --> 09:59.753 of the Black Sites, 09:59.900 --> 10:03.150 and explain your theory why even though 10:03.493 --> 10:06.826 the judge has approved a summary version 10:08.360 --> 10:11.096 of that type of evidence put forth by the Government 10:11.096 --> 10:15.013 that you now get to sort of seek more discovery 10:16.289 --> 10:19.706 on the same general category of evidence? 10:21.164 --> 10:25.331 - In any case, criminal or civil or administrative even, 10:25.492 --> 10:26.325 for that matter. 10:26.325 --> 10:27.158 Any kind of case. 10:27.158 --> 10:29.825 The facts which wind up being presented in court 10:29.825 --> 10:31.622 come from two basic places. 10:31.622 --> 10:33.621 They come from the exchange of information 10:33.621 --> 10:35.666 between the parties, known as discovery. 10:35.666 --> 10:38.233 And they come from parties seeking information 10:38.233 --> 10:40.744 out in the world, wherever it may be, 10:40.744 --> 10:43.026 which is called investigation. 10:43.026 --> 10:46.310 The way that the Government has structured 10:46.310 --> 10:49.143 its discovery process by providing 10:49.766 --> 10:52.099 extremely blurred discovery, 10:52.479 --> 10:55.896 has obstructed the investigative process, 10:56.574 --> 10:59.390 so the discovery process is sort of working, 10:59.390 --> 11:01.935 and the investigation process is sort of working 11:01.935 --> 11:04.753 instead of both of them working well. 11:04.753 --> 11:07.094 The Government has removed every date, 11:07.094 --> 11:10.927 every name, and every place from the discovery 11:11.658 --> 11:13.408 that it has produced, 11:13.752 --> 11:16.326 sometimes in summary form, sometimes with original 11:16.326 --> 11:18.992 documents redacted on much fewer occasions, 11:18.992 --> 11:23.075 and what that means is that as Mr. Perdon argued, 11:24.482 --> 11:28.482 it's extremely difficult to seek local witnesses 11:28.528 --> 11:32.527 who might have information to compare environmental 11:32.527 --> 11:34.695 conditions, climate, et cetera, 11:34.695 --> 11:38.862 to the sterile reports that we have received in discovery. 11:40.252 --> 11:43.529 All of that investigative process depends 11:43.529 --> 11:47.696 on a discovery process that shares enough information 11:48.898 --> 11:51.427 to allow people to go out into the world and seek it. 11:51.427 --> 11:54.118 Those two things are mutually informing. 11:54.118 --> 11:56.042 Discovery often leads to investigation, 11:56.042 --> 11:58.331 which leads to further requests for discovery, 11:58.331 --> 12:00.764 and that's the situation that we have here. 12:00.764 --> 12:04.347 - [Reporter] If the judge denies the motion 12:05.266 --> 12:08.592 based on the fact that the law prohibits reconsideration 12:08.592 --> 12:12.092 of orders that go through the 505 process, 12:13.014 --> 12:15.837 are you going to challenge the constitutionality 12:15.837 --> 12:17.126 of that provision, 12:17.126 --> 12:18.821 or have you already started doing that? 12:18.821 --> 12:20.885 - So in fact, there already was a challenge 12:20.885 --> 12:22.959 to the constitutionality of that provision. 12:22.959 --> 12:25.292 That's in the AE-164 Series. 12:25.889 --> 12:27.065 The Government argued at the time, 12:27.065 --> 12:29.140 and the Military Commission ruled at the time 12:29.140 --> 12:33.140 that the bar on reconsideration was only applied 12:34.223 --> 12:36.177 to true reconsideration. 12:36.177 --> 12:38.212 Judge, you decided this fact, 12:38.212 --> 12:41.967 and I would like you to decide for that fact another way. 12:41.967 --> 12:46.134 Whereas seeking additional information is not really 12:46.894 --> 12:48.628 a motion to reconsider. 12:48.628 --> 12:50.449 It is really a motion to compel. 12:50.449 --> 12:52.077 Give you the perfect example. 12:52.077 --> 12:53.586 Part of the motion, 12:53.586 --> 12:55.710 one of the motions to compel that we argued this week 12:55.710 --> 12:58.091 in unclassified session AE-523 12:58.091 --> 13:01.341 was seeking the identities of witnesses 13:01.868 --> 13:06.035 who we have listed for the personal jurisdiction hearing. 13:07.407 --> 13:10.574 The Government has used what they call 13:11.429 --> 13:13.285 unique functional identifiers, 13:13.285 --> 13:15.784 which are essentially two letters and a number. 13:15.784 --> 13:19.951 AA1, for example, to represent a particular person, 13:20.590 --> 13:24.757 where the identity of that person is relevant material 13:25.253 --> 13:27.463 to the personal jurisdiction hearing, 13:27.463 --> 13:29.710 we've asked the Government to produce it. 13:29.710 --> 13:31.530 That's what we argued this week. 13:31.530 --> 13:35.697 There are really two things that are important about that, 13:36.298 --> 13:37.699 things that have changed. 13:37.699 --> 13:39.659 The first thing that's important to know 13:39.659 --> 13:42.220 is that those identities never went through 13:42.220 --> 13:44.943 the 505 process in the first place. 13:44.943 --> 13:47.450 The Government typed them up on a computer 13:47.450 --> 13:49.184 and produced them directly to us. 13:49.184 --> 13:52.112 They gave the judge notice that they were doing so, 13:52.112 --> 13:54.711 but never asked the judge to approve them, 13:54.711 --> 13:56.344 and most importantly, 13:56.344 --> 13:58.417 never gave the judge the original documents 13:58.417 --> 14:00.000 to compare it with. 14:00.696 --> 14:03.145 The second thing is the reason why that's a perfect example 14:03.145 --> 14:06.722 is at the time that most of these documents 14:06.722 --> 14:09.889 were being submitted for substitution, 14:10.303 --> 14:13.036 there wasn't even a personal jurisdiction hearing 14:13.036 --> 14:15.119 that had been envisioned. 14:15.546 --> 14:17.809 Personal jurisdiction issue hadn't been raised yet. 14:17.809 --> 14:19.843 The judge didn't know that these things 14:19.843 --> 14:21.628 were going to be important for personal jurisdiction, 14:21.628 --> 14:25.213 and so it's only fair to the judge to let him, 14:25.213 --> 14:26.963 in this case, or her, 14:27.941 --> 14:31.191 make a determination based on the facts 14:31.502 --> 14:33.091 as they occur at the time 14:33.091 --> 14:35.274 as opposed to prediction a couple of years later 14:35.274 --> 14:37.441 of what the facts will be. 14:39.401 --> 14:40.281 - [Reporter] Just one last question. 14:40.281 --> 14:43.086 The Government proposed having some closed sessions, 14:43.086 --> 14:45.086 possibly in the DC area. 14:45.608 --> 14:47.629 Conference table it sounded like 14:47.629 --> 14:49.919 around 35 people or so could fit. 14:49.919 --> 14:52.111 Is that something that you would be in favor of? 14:52.111 --> 14:52.944 - Yes. 14:53.065 --> 14:54.159 In appropriate circumstances, 14:54.159 --> 14:56.193 meaning that it did not infringe the right 14:56.193 --> 14:58.674 of Mr. al-Baluchi to attend the hearing, 14:58.674 --> 15:02.054 or of the media and public to attend a hearing, 15:02.054 --> 15:04.293 then I think it would be appropriate. 15:04.293 --> 15:05.997 It would only be appropriate in situations where 15:05.997 --> 15:07.651 it was purely classified. 15:07.651 --> 15:09.032 There was no open session. 15:09.032 --> 15:12.065 Any open session Mr. al-Baluchi and the public 15:12.065 --> 15:14.690 and the media may be able to attend, 15:14.690 --> 15:17.502 but if it was a situation of let's say that we 15:17.502 --> 15:21.669 had a week of witnesses whose identity is classified. 15:23.380 --> 15:25.219 There's no chance of any open hearing on them. 15:25.219 --> 15:27.955 There's no reason to all come to Guantanamo for that 15:27.955 --> 15:30.781 when it can be possibly be done in Washington. 15:30.781 --> 15:32.467 So under those circumstances, 15:32.467 --> 15:34.708 I do think it would be appropriate to hold 15:34.708 --> 15:37.825 some of the hearings in Washington instead 15:37.825 --> 15:39.242 of in Guantanamo, 15:39.921 --> 15:42.171 but only in that situation. 15:42.371 --> 15:43.840 - [Reporter] So just looking at all the people 15:43.840 --> 15:44.673 in the courtroom, 15:44.673 --> 15:46.951 does the size of that sound like you could fit 15:46.951 --> 15:49.574 everybody who would need to be there? 15:49.574 --> 15:51.130 - Well, you know a lot of people in the courtroom 15:51.130 --> 15:52.630 would not have to be there. 15:52.630 --> 15:54.174 The guards, for example. 15:54.174 --> 15:56.654 You know, there are a lot of guards 15:56.654 --> 15:58.737 who sit around the edges. 15:59.235 --> 16:01.735 It could be a situation where, 16:01.752 --> 16:04.343 and it's also true that a lot of people come and go 16:04.343 --> 16:05.770 from the courtroom. 16:05.770 --> 16:07.476 It could be a situation where each party 16:07.476 --> 16:09.987 was limited to a certain number of people. 16:09.987 --> 16:11.820 If the space seats 35, 16:13.595 --> 16:15.211 and I'm gonna go look at it on Tuesday. 16:15.211 --> 16:17.044 If the space seats 35, 16:17.500 --> 16:20.527 then each party could bring five people, 16:20.527 --> 16:23.694 and that's probably pretty reasonable. 16:25.133 --> 16:26.186 Amos, do you have anything else? 16:26.186 --> 16:27.019 All right. 16:27.089 --> 16:27.985 Thank you very much. 16:27.985 --> 16:29.568 - [Amos] Thank you. 16:34.184 --> 16:35.017 - Good afternoon, my name is Karen Loftus, 16:35.017 --> 16:38.505 I'm the Director of the Victim Witness Assistance Program 16:38.505 --> 16:40.900 for the Office of Military Commissions. 16:40.900 --> 16:43.033 I'd like to thank you all for attending 16:43.033 --> 16:45.520 the the press conference with the Victim Family Members 16:45.520 --> 16:46.658 here this week. 16:46.658 --> 16:48.484 Also, as usual, we'd like to thank 16:48.484 --> 16:50.817 the Commission Liaison Group 16:51.752 --> 16:55.919 and the ONC South and all the soldiers, sailors, airmen 16:56.334 --> 16:59.745 on Joint Task Force Guantanamo that made this possible 16:59.745 --> 17:01.162 for us to attend. 17:01.342 --> 17:04.295 I'm going to start here to my right. 17:04.295 --> 17:07.357 We have Jean Winter and her husband, Robert Clouse. 17:07.357 --> 17:09.270 Jean lost her first husband, 17:09.270 --> 17:13.437 Richard Winter NYPD Inspector for the City of New York, 17:16.248 --> 17:19.831 and her nephew, firefighter, Carl Molinaro. 17:20.739 --> 17:23.572 Next to Bob, we have Raymond Wang. 17:23.588 --> 17:26.909 He lost his father, Wiebin Wang in the World Trade Center. 17:26.909 --> 17:29.387 His father worked for Cantor Fitzgerald. 17:29.387 --> 17:31.171 And we have Wesley Babcock, 17:31.171 --> 17:33.695 who is here with his friend, Daniel Hubbs. 17:33.695 --> 17:36.279 Wesley lost his best friend, childhood friend, 17:36.279 --> 17:39.112 Eddie Rowenhorst, in the Pentagon. 17:39.216 --> 17:40.953 And we also have Tim Lang. 17:40.953 --> 17:45.120 Tim Lang, he's a member of a 12-person, sibling family. 17:45.885 --> 17:49.133 He lost his sister, Roseanne Lang in Cantor Fitzgerald, 17:49.133 --> 17:51.966 and also his nephew, Brendan Lang. 17:53.065 --> 17:53.898 So welcome. 17:53.898 --> 17:56.315 Turn it over to the families. 18:06.203 --> 18:07.168 - I'm not a public speaker, 18:07.168 --> 18:09.474 but I wanted to write my thoughts down this morning, 18:09.474 --> 18:10.724 and share them. 18:17.521 --> 18:18.553 I think we all arrived here 18:18.553 --> 18:21.470 not knowing exactly what to expect. 18:22.140 --> 18:23.945 I didn't know what I would feel when I saw the men 18:23.945 --> 18:26.620 who killed my sister Roseanne, my nephew Brendan, 18:26.620 --> 18:28.537 and many of my friends. 18:29.281 --> 18:31.436 On arrival, we toured the outside of the prison 18:31.436 --> 18:34.436 where the terrorists are being held. 18:34.635 --> 18:37.829 It struck me that their lives are now small, 18:37.829 --> 18:40.746 insignificant, and without purpose. 18:42.474 --> 18:44.764 The rest of their lives they'll be confined, 18:44.764 --> 18:46.010 while they can wallow 18:46.010 --> 18:49.843 in the cesspool of their hate-filled ideology. 18:54.263 --> 18:57.098 I believe that the dedicated and outstanding prosecution 18:57.098 --> 19:00.765 team will help deliver justice in this life, 19:00.941 --> 19:02.205 and I know that God will deliver 19:02.205 --> 19:05.955 the eternal justice they deserve in the next. 19:06.203 --> 19:09.393 I'm glad I had the opportunity to come to Gitmo. 19:09.393 --> 19:12.005 The first uplifting event occurred at the prison checkpoint. 19:12.005 --> 19:15.094 The guards called into the bus the greeting words, 19:15.094 --> 19:17.694 "Honor bound," and our chaplain responded, 19:17.694 --> 19:19.361 "To defend freedom," 19:20.413 --> 19:23.644 the motto of those serving here at Gitmo. 19:23.644 --> 19:26.941 I felt inspired each morning at 8:00 a.m. 19:26.941 --> 19:31.103 When the National Anthem is played throughout the base, 19:31.103 --> 19:33.936 and all activity stops in respect. 19:34.292 --> 19:36.474 We've spent time meeting and getting to know 19:36.474 --> 19:38.307 many of those serving, 19:38.613 --> 19:42.425 from General Martins through the ranks to the MP escorts. 19:42.425 --> 19:45.092 They're all very special people. 19:45.816 --> 19:49.983 Honor, duty, service, and sacrifice are not words for them, 19:51.447 --> 19:52.947 but a way of life. 19:54.464 --> 19:56.682 Their lives are filled with great purpose, 19:56.682 --> 20:00.172 and that is to defend and protect our homeland 20:00.172 --> 20:01.755 and our loved ones. 20:03.218 --> 20:04.745 Special thanks to Karen Loftus and her team 20:04.745 --> 20:07.078 for taking great care of us. 20:08.584 --> 20:11.780 I know we're all leaving Gitmo more proud to be an American 20:11.780 --> 20:15.113 and ever so grateful to those who serve. 20:15.329 --> 20:16.746 Thank you, Major. 20:25.691 --> 20:28.608 - Tim has said exactly how we feel, 20:28.854 --> 20:30.833 so I'm not going to go over it. 20:30.833 --> 20:32.254 But I thought when we were coming here 20:32.254 --> 20:34.837 that I would address two parts. 20:37.148 --> 20:39.646 One is especially because I'm a woman, 20:39.646 --> 20:41.649 and the only woman in the group. 20:41.649 --> 20:42.982 And the other is 20:43.638 --> 20:47.138 all my life I've known our justice system, 20:48.657 --> 20:51.824 and I know how a system gives justice. 20:52.027 --> 20:55.194 Not to the victim, but to the accused. 20:55.816 --> 20:58.233 But in this situation for me, 20:58.328 --> 20:59.661 it really hurts. 21:00.029 --> 21:02.047 It really hurts to sit in that courtroom 21:02.047 --> 21:05.797 and see the defense team with eternal minutia 21:07.722 --> 21:08.805 go on and on, 21:09.577 --> 21:13.599 and every little piece is like a stab in my heart, 21:13.599 --> 21:15.932 and a stab to my loved ones, 21:16.081 --> 21:17.748 over and over again. 21:19.302 --> 21:21.112 And I'm sad to say that that's one of the things 21:21.112 --> 21:24.279 I'm going to bring back home to share, 21:24.497 --> 21:26.247 to share with people. 21:27.498 --> 21:31.665 The other thing that maybe only Karen and I will really get, 21:31.997 --> 21:35.914 as an accomplished, professional American woman 21:38.794 --> 21:42.044 who grew up in the 60s and then the 70s 21:46.045 --> 21:47.128 to sit there, 21:50.657 --> 21:53.240 I think it is just incredulous. 21:54.642 --> 21:55.809 It is hurtful. 21:58.709 --> 22:02.241 It is embarrassing to see other accomplished 22:02.241 --> 22:03.741 professional women 22:04.957 --> 22:06.457 garbed in ancient, 22:06.846 --> 22:08.429 archaic, demeaning, 22:10.241 --> 22:11.658 humiliating wear. 22:13.794 --> 22:16.709 I find that is embarrassing and an insult 22:16.709 --> 22:18.542 to all American women. 22:19.166 --> 22:21.559 And these are some of the things 22:21.559 --> 22:24.142 that I'm bringing back with me. 22:24.450 --> 22:25.283 Thank you. 22:32.834 --> 22:34.173 - This trip to Guantanamo 22:34.173 --> 22:37.006 has opened many different emotions 22:37.118 --> 22:38.701 and feeling for me. 22:41.904 --> 22:43.515 Even though it's been over 16 years, 22:43.515 --> 22:45.598 it never gets any easier. 22:47.501 --> 22:49.968 Observing this Commission in person 22:49.968 --> 22:53.575 has given me renewed hopes that justice will be served. 22:53.575 --> 22:57.182 And I'm extremely grateful for the prosecution team, 22:57.182 --> 22:59.226 who are so professional and patient, 22:59.226 --> 23:03.393 even when the defense just seems to drag everything along. 23:05.989 --> 23:07.948 I also wanna thank Karen and her team, 23:07.948 --> 23:11.292 who go above and beyond for us for everything, 23:11.292 --> 23:15.209 and lastly, all the men and women, the soldiers 23:15.300 --> 23:19.300 of the JTF who work so hard to make this happen. 23:32.729 --> 23:33.905 - [John] My name's John Ryan. 23:33.905 --> 23:36.872 I edit a legal affairs publication called Law Dragon. 23:36.872 --> 23:38.583 We've been coming here for the past couple years 23:38.583 --> 23:40.680 to cover these proceedings. 23:40.680 --> 23:43.049 Sometimes we just ask if anybody wants to comment on 23:43.049 --> 23:45.666 your decision process when you decided to come here. 23:45.666 --> 23:46.800 How difficult it was. 23:46.800 --> 23:49.259 Why you made the call asked to come down now, 23:49.259 --> 23:52.422 and also if you think this experience will 23:52.422 --> 23:55.490 lead you to follow the case more closely 23:55.490 --> 23:56.590 if you weren't before. 23:56.590 --> 23:58.257 Any of those topics. 23:58.965 --> 24:00.632 - I can answer that. 24:00.969 --> 24:02.831 I came here to honor my husband. 24:02.831 --> 24:05.748 And I came here to honor my nephew. 24:06.091 --> 24:07.841 We will never forget. 24:08.341 --> 24:10.221 I'm a New Yorker, so I'm especially, 24:10.221 --> 24:12.388 we will just never forget. 24:13.504 --> 24:16.357 And what was the second part of your question? 24:16.357 --> 24:19.774 - [John] Had you been following the case? 24:19.930 --> 24:20.763 I know it's hard. 24:20.763 --> 24:23.660 There's some closed circuit sites set up, 24:23.660 --> 24:25.175 but had you been following the case 24:25.175 --> 24:26.399 either that way or just through 24:26.399 --> 24:28.066 media or other ways, 24:29.581 --> 24:33.302 and if this experience will lead you to follow 24:33.302 --> 24:34.497 the case more closely, 24:34.497 --> 24:36.361 and would you be interested in coming back? 24:36.361 --> 24:39.229 - This experience will definitely have me 24:39.229 --> 24:41.896 following the case more closely. 24:41.952 --> 24:42.785 And, yes. 24:42.785 --> 24:44.285 I would come back. 24:49.799 --> 24:52.164 - I'm gonna admit to not knowing much about the case. 24:52.164 --> 24:54.219 My oldest brother follows it, 24:54.219 --> 24:55.442 and he kept us up, 24:55.442 --> 24:57.936 basically to tell us it's all, so far, 24:57.936 --> 24:59.644 been a bit of a sideshow. 24:59.644 --> 25:01.387 You know, all the preliminary hearings, 25:01.387 --> 25:03.720 and the preliminary motions. 25:03.747 --> 25:07.747 My own sense is that when the scheduling begins, 25:07.787 --> 25:08.959 trial date is set, 25:08.959 --> 25:10.606 at least up in the New York area, 25:10.606 --> 25:11.675 around Fort Dix, 25:11.675 --> 25:13.258 where I can attend, 25:13.295 --> 25:16.032 I can envision standing room only. 25:16.032 --> 25:17.155 We'll have to give out tickets 25:17.155 --> 25:19.484 that all the family members. 25:19.484 --> 25:21.006 And you have to think, 25:21.006 --> 25:23.562 nearly 3000 people died, you know, 25:23.562 --> 25:25.849 and so many of them in the New York area, 25:25.849 --> 25:27.123 and that means there's thousands 25:27.123 --> 25:29.216 of family members interested, 25:29.216 --> 25:32.799 so it will not lack interest simply because 25:33.811 --> 25:36.305 for all of us standing here the wounds are still 25:36.305 --> 25:38.222 just below the surface, 25:38.609 --> 25:40.010 and it still hurts. 25:40.010 --> 25:41.677 And we want justice. 25:47.628 --> 25:51.795 - [Reporter] Occasionally, some of the Victim Family Members 25:51.982 --> 25:55.899 who have come have expressed interest in it not 25:57.411 --> 25:59.445 being a death penalty case because either because 25:59.445 --> 26:02.262 they might be against the death penalty, 26:02.262 --> 26:04.909 or they think it might speed up the proceedings 26:04.909 --> 26:06.798 somewhat if it wasn't a capital case. 26:06.798 --> 26:10.548 I don't know if you had any thoughts on that. 26:17.331 --> 26:19.639 - I don't wanna be speaking for everybody, 26:19.639 --> 26:23.472 but look, I consider myself a devout Catholic. 26:26.628 --> 26:29.517 I don't have any problem at all with the death penalty. 26:29.517 --> 26:33.106 In fact, everybody in this room is gonna one day die. 26:33.106 --> 26:34.609 The death penalty for these guys just 26:34.609 --> 26:36.692 gets them a date certain. 26:40.846 --> 26:43.263 - I feel the same way as Tim. 26:43.975 --> 26:45.049 I'm a Christian woman, 26:45.049 --> 26:47.737 but I have no problem with the death penalty. 26:47.737 --> 26:49.267 And for your information, 26:49.267 --> 26:52.517 when Karen first makes contact with us, 26:52.910 --> 26:55.331 she does tell us right up front that this trial 26:55.331 --> 26:57.414 involves a death penalty, 26:58.285 --> 26:59.822 so if we have a problem with that, 26:59.822 --> 27:02.155 we may wanna think about it. 27:06.824 --> 27:08.566 - [Amos] Hi, my name is Amos Barshad. 27:08.566 --> 27:10.054 I'm a reporter for the Marshall Project. 27:10.054 --> 27:13.473 Thanks for being here and talking with us. 27:13.473 --> 27:15.475 It sounds like the experience as a whole 27:15.475 --> 27:17.545 has provided some comfort. 27:17.545 --> 27:18.816 Is there anything specifically about the case 27:18.816 --> 27:21.365 in the court that did that as well? 27:21.365 --> 27:24.268 Or was it kind of really difficult to take in? 27:24.268 --> 27:27.857 - I will say what has given me great comfort 27:27.857 --> 27:31.774 is the prosecution team, their professionalism, 27:32.655 --> 27:36.822 their altruism, their hard work, their dedication, 27:37.178 --> 27:38.761 their intelligence. 27:39.770 --> 27:43.937 I have just been so impressed and feel so comfortable 27:44.612 --> 27:46.529 and so happy with them. 27:48.455 --> 27:49.662 And I can't say it enough. 27:49.662 --> 27:53.245 And the same for Karen Loftus and her team. 27:53.873 --> 27:57.623 Well organized, caring, just doing everything 27:59.014 --> 28:00.847 you can possibly want. 28:08.813 --> 28:10.954 - I didn't lose a family member. 28:10.954 --> 28:13.121 And this is the first time 28:13.196 --> 28:16.435 that I've had any experience to this amount 28:16.435 --> 28:17.935 in a court system, 28:18.467 --> 28:22.467 and I'm really frustrated on how long it's taken 28:23.457 --> 28:25.207 to get to this point. 28:25.410 --> 28:29.493 That it's taken years of motions and more motions 28:31.193 --> 28:33.193 and nothing's happening. 28:33.489 --> 28:35.481 Still haven't gone to trial, 28:35.481 --> 28:37.262 and there are thousands of people who haven't 28:37.262 --> 28:39.262 gotten satisfaction yet. 28:41.407 --> 28:44.740 But I am very impressed with the counsel 28:45.028 --> 28:47.028 and the Government team, 28:47.713 --> 28:50.130 who are unbelievably patient. 28:50.620 --> 28:51.453 The judge. 28:51.967 --> 28:54.049 I could never be a judge, 28:54.049 --> 28:56.574 but that man impresses me and so does 28:56.574 --> 28:58.907 the rest of the prosecution. 29:06.094 --> 29:08.344 - [Reporter] All right, I understand you didn't speak 29:08.344 --> 29:10.094 to the defense teams. 29:10.808 --> 29:14.641 Do you see that as being possibly a worthwhile 29:15.583 --> 29:19.750 conversation you could have with the defense teams? 29:24.999 --> 29:26.438 - We were obviously advised that we could 29:26.438 --> 29:28.388 meet with the defense team if we wanted to 29:28.388 --> 29:29.742 and ask questions. 29:29.742 --> 29:33.775 My first response was, "What's the upside for us?" 29:33.775 --> 29:35.727 And it would be the same with the prosecution team. 29:35.727 --> 29:38.280 You know, what's the upside for us? 29:38.280 --> 29:39.864 You know, there's obvious upside for us 29:39.864 --> 29:41.986 with the prosecution team. 29:41.986 --> 29:44.380 You get to meet the most outstanding, 29:44.380 --> 29:46.797 intelligent, dedicated people 29:47.127 --> 29:48.637 that are fighting our cause, 29:48.637 --> 29:51.470 the cause for our lost loved ones. 29:53.828 --> 29:55.025 The upside for the defense team would be 29:55.025 --> 29:56.858 to mitigate a penalty. 29:58.652 --> 30:01.515 This is again, my own personal opinion, 30:01.515 --> 30:05.682 and the reason I chose not to meet with the defense team. 30:05.707 --> 30:07.229 They can't do anything for me. 30:07.229 --> 30:09.548 I mean, I do understand that they're professional people. 30:09.548 --> 30:10.673 They do their job. 30:10.673 --> 30:14.756 They have to do their best to defend the killers. 30:17.756 --> 30:20.578 I also know they know deep in their heart what happened. 30:20.578 --> 30:22.632 And that these guys are responsible, 30:22.632 --> 30:24.225 but still they must do their job, 30:24.225 --> 30:26.852 and that's what their profession calls for, 30:26.852 --> 30:29.102 and I respect that of them. 30:29.696 --> 30:32.385 But I think on this one I can talk 30:32.385 --> 30:33.627 for all of us up here. 30:33.627 --> 30:35.090 There was absolutely no upside for us 30:35.090 --> 30:37.173 to meet with the defense. 30:43.008 --> 30:45.090 - [Reporter] Do you think the press, 30:45.090 --> 30:47.869 local or national, is doing a good job, 30:47.869 --> 30:49.946 accurate job of covering this case? 30:49.946 --> 30:52.124 Is there enough attention being paid to it, 30:52.124 --> 30:53.541 in your opinions? 31:02.059 --> 31:02.962 - [Tim] No. 31:02.962 --> 31:03.962 - [Jean] No. 31:11.599 --> 31:13.516 - [Reporter] Thank you. 31:17.576 --> 31:18.576 - Thank you.