WEBVTT 00:00.577 --> 00:02.244 - Well good morning. 00:03.598 --> 00:07.278 The Senate Armed Services Committee meets this morning 00:07.278 --> 00:10.064 to receive testimony on information surrounding 00:10.064 --> 00:14.231 the unfortunate matter of the Marines United Facebook group. 00:15.992 --> 00:17.810 I want to thank each of our witnesses 00:17.810 --> 00:20.962 for appearing before the committee this morning. 00:20.962 --> 00:23.973 Acting Secretary of the Navy Sean Stackley, 00:23.973 --> 00:27.264 General Robert Neller, Commandant of the Marine Corps 00:27.264 --> 00:30.414 and Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Ronald Green. 00:30.414 --> 00:34.581 So Sergeant Major, good morning, thank you for coming. 00:34.735 --> 00:37.652 Thank you for your appearance here. 00:38.279 --> 00:39.724 The committee is saddened and disturbed 00:39.724 --> 00:41.966 by allegations that female Marines 00:41.966 --> 00:46.107 have been subjected to online harassment and abuse, 00:46.107 --> 00:49.562 including denigrating comments and nonconsensual sharing 00:49.562 --> 00:53.729 of images, apparently in some cases by fellow Marines. 00:54.344 --> 00:57.596 Our witnesses are here to inform us about these allegations, 00:57.596 --> 01:01.282 and what is being done to address the impact on the service, 01:01.282 --> 01:05.039 especially those Marines who have been victimized. 01:05.039 --> 01:06.988 All who love the Marine Corps are embarrassed 01:06.988 --> 01:09.776 and outraged by these allegations, 01:09.776 --> 01:12.943 none more so than our witnesses today. 01:13.094 --> 01:16.637 General Neller, since these allegations were made, 01:16.637 --> 01:19.311 you have been unequivocal in communicating 01:19.311 --> 01:21.728 to the men and women you lead 01:21.742 --> 01:25.187 that behavior like this is unacceptable and fundamentally 01:25.187 --> 01:28.687 opposed to the values of the Marine Corps. 01:28.705 --> 01:30.584 I want to re-emphasize the Commandant's 01:30.584 --> 01:33.001 message to Marines last week. 01:34.398 --> 01:37.178 Committee share your hope that Marines who have been victims 01:37.178 --> 01:41.148 of harassment and abuse will report that conduct to their 01:41.148 --> 01:45.315 chain of command, chaplain, or victim leader counsel. 01:45.931 --> 01:48.759 It is our expectation that Marine officers and leaders 01:48.759 --> 01:52.595 will support those victims, protect them from reprisal, 01:52.595 --> 01:56.753 and do all in their power to prevent abuse of any Marine. 01:56.753 --> 01:59.579 At this time, we don't know how many Marines 01:59.579 --> 02:03.481 were involved in these allegations of harassment and abuse, 02:03.481 --> 02:06.489 or what motivated those who were to engage 02:06.489 --> 02:10.489 in such disgraceful and unprofessional behavior. 02:10.637 --> 02:13.639 We do not know the origin of images of female Marines 02:13.639 --> 02:16.722 on the Marines United Facebook group, 02:17.275 --> 02:18.735 some of which may have been taken 02:18.735 --> 02:21.402 or shared without their consent. 02:21.547 --> 02:25.132 And we do not know how many Marines may have been targeted. 02:25.132 --> 02:28.459 This committee expects the Department of the Navy 02:28.459 --> 02:32.095 and its senior Marine Corps leaders to provide updates 02:32.095 --> 02:35.993 on the investigation into these issues when appropriate, 02:35.993 --> 02:37.954 as well as keep the committee apprised 02:37.954 --> 02:41.064 of any corrective action the Marine Corps may take 02:41.064 --> 02:43.731 concerning policies, procedures, 02:44.109 --> 02:47.333 and the education and training of Marines. 02:47.333 --> 02:49.290 We realize that much of this information 02:49.290 --> 02:51.725 may be law enforcement sensitive 02:51.725 --> 02:54.696 due to ongoing criminal investigations. 02:54.696 --> 02:58.291 For that reason, immediately following this open hearing, 02:58.291 --> 03:01.511 the Committee will proceed to a closed door session 03:01.511 --> 03:05.457 to hear from our witnesses on these sensitive matters. 03:05.457 --> 03:08.411 While there may be much that we still have to learn, 03:08.411 --> 03:10.899 there is much that we know already. 03:10.899 --> 03:13.068 We know that the actions of those Marines 03:13.068 --> 03:16.485 involved in Marines United do not reflect 03:16.641 --> 03:19.683 the culture and values of their service, 03:19.683 --> 03:22.340 not only honor, courage, and commitment, 03:22.340 --> 03:24.524 but also mutual respect for all 03:24.524 --> 03:26.941 of their fellow human beings, 03:27.189 --> 03:30.203 values that are upheld and lived each day 03:30.203 --> 03:33.318 by the overwhelming majority of Marines. 03:33.318 --> 03:36.766 That is why Americans are proud of our Marine Corps, 03:36.766 --> 03:39.276 because the conduct of most Marines 03:39.276 --> 03:42.526 is deserving of our praise and respect. 03:42.774 --> 03:45.373 We also know that challenges we see in our military 03:45.373 --> 03:47.525 often reflect similar challenges 03:47.525 --> 03:49.858 confronting broader society. 03:50.152 --> 03:53.819 In this case, we are all confronting the unique challenges 03:53.819 --> 03:57.986 posed by the advent and proliferation of social media, 03:58.066 --> 04:02.233 which, like any (audio cuts out) enabler, 04:02.257 --> 04:05.980 an enabler of incredibly good and decent things, 04:05.980 --> 04:08.894 but also dark and troubling things. 04:08.894 --> 04:11.506 The same technology that allows one group of Marines 04:11.506 --> 04:15.105 to create a support group to help their battle buddies 04:15.105 --> 04:18.188 struggling with post-traumatic stress 04:18.384 --> 04:20.500 can be used by another group to humiliate 04:20.500 --> 04:23.833 and demean their fellow female comrades. 04:25.499 --> 04:27.130 At the same time, we know that those 04:27.130 --> 04:29.548 who serve in the profession of arms 04:29.548 --> 04:32.268 must be held to a higher standard. 04:32.268 --> 04:35.049 They would not want it any other way. 04:35.049 --> 04:36.952 We know that the Marine Corps cannot fight 04:36.952 --> 04:39.526 and win the nation's wars if Marines 04:39.526 --> 04:42.609 do not respect and trust one another. 04:42.829 --> 04:46.199 This is not just a matter of good personal conduct. 04:46.199 --> 04:49.532 It's a matter of military effectiveness. 04:49.686 --> 04:53.342 That is why any Marine who disrespects a fellow Marine 04:53.342 --> 04:56.026 dishonors the values of the Marine Corps 04:56.026 --> 04:59.609 and harms its mission to defend the nation. 05:01.340 --> 05:04.202 This kind of behavior is unacceptable for any Marine 05:04.202 --> 05:07.542 or any member of the United States Armed Forces. 05:07.542 --> 05:11.037 And the actions of our civilian and military leadership, 05:11.037 --> 05:13.461 not just in response to these allegations, 05:13.461 --> 05:16.970 but at all times, must demonstrate that such misconduct 05:16.970 --> 05:19.720 will not be excused or tolerated. 05:20.527 --> 05:23.692 Finally, as members of the committee are aware, 05:23.692 --> 05:26.843 these allegations surrounding Marines United 05:26.843 --> 05:29.227 are currently under investigation by 05:29.227 --> 05:32.342 the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. 05:32.342 --> 05:35.516 Therefore, I encourage members of the committee 05:35.516 --> 05:37.724 to please reserve any questions that may be 05:37.724 --> 05:41.891 law-enforcement sensitive for the closed session to follow. 05:42.193 --> 05:43.967 I do not want this committee's proceedings 05:43.967 --> 05:47.271 to be construed in any way that might interfere 05:47.271 --> 05:50.957 with the swift delivery of justice to those individuals 05:50.957 --> 05:54.229 that may have engaged in criminal behavior. 05:54.229 --> 05:55.898 Once again, I thank the witnesses 05:55.898 --> 05:58.758 for appearing before the committee today. 05:58.758 --> 05:59.841 Senator Reed. 06:00.143 --> 06:01.914 - Thank you very much Mr. Chairman, 06:01.914 --> 06:03.914 for holding this very important session 06:03.914 --> 06:06.933 to give the Marine Corps the opportunity to give 06:06.933 --> 06:09.256 an initial briefing on what they know 06:09.256 --> 06:13.295 and what they don't know about reports of abhorrent behavior 06:13.295 --> 06:16.912 by some of our Marines using the Marine United website. 06:16.912 --> 06:19.175 It is unusual for the committee to receive a briefing 06:19.175 --> 06:22.384 like this on an ongoing criminal investigation, 06:22.384 --> 06:24.481 but this issue is so important that it 06:24.481 --> 06:26.768 warrants this kind of attention. 06:26.768 --> 06:29.374 However we must take care to ensure that we don't 06:29.374 --> 06:32.109 put the Commandant of the Marine Corps in the position 06:32.109 --> 06:35.210 of making statements that later could be alleged 06:35.210 --> 06:37.877 as exercising unlawful influence 06:38.047 --> 06:42.133 and therefore disrupting the criminal investigation. 06:42.133 --> 06:44.956 The nonconsensual posting of explicit photos 06:44.956 --> 06:46.649 of female Marines on a public website 06:46.649 --> 06:49.482 is repugnant and just plain wrong. 06:49.695 --> 06:51.028 And inexcusable. 06:51.569 --> 06:54.143 All of us who've had the privilege of serving in uniform 06:54.143 --> 06:56.177 know the value of a cohesive unit 06:56.177 --> 06:58.947 where all members of the unit looked out for each other 06:58.947 --> 07:00.620 and took care of each other. 07:00.620 --> 07:02.736 I can only imagine the harm that this type of behavior 07:02.736 --> 07:05.702 can have on morale and unit cohesion. 07:05.702 --> 07:07.648 Our service members must have confidence 07:07.648 --> 07:10.908 that their fellow service members always have their back. 07:10.908 --> 07:12.636 There simply is no room for behavior 07:12.636 --> 07:16.164 that humiliates and degrades a fellow service member. 07:16.164 --> 07:18.238 In my view, the Marine Corps must and will attack 07:18.238 --> 07:20.114 this problem with the dignity that the Marine Corps 07:20.114 --> 07:23.197 has demonstrated time and time again. 07:23.735 --> 07:26.143 It should begin with a good, thorough investigation 07:26.143 --> 07:27.795 to establish provable facts that can be used 07:27.795 --> 07:31.156 to hold offenders accountable for criminal conduct. 07:31.156 --> 07:33.177 I will be anxious to hear whether the NCIS 07:33.177 --> 07:35.489 has the resources and expertise to fully 07:35.489 --> 07:37.837 and completely investigate this matter. 07:37.837 --> 07:40.162 If they don't, we need to help them. 07:40.162 --> 07:42.969 Get those resources and that expertise. 07:42.969 --> 07:44.595 Once the investigation is complete, 07:44.595 --> 07:46.975 Commanders will have the task of taking appropriate action 07:46.975 --> 07:49.612 based on the findings of the investigation. 07:49.612 --> 07:52.134 Aside from the immediate issue of Marine misconduct 07:52.134 --> 07:55.959 on the Marine United website, the Marine Corps must also 07:55.959 --> 07:57.612 address the culture that allowed 07:57.612 --> 07:59.357 or facilitated that misconduct. 07:59.357 --> 08:00.929 I'll be interested in hearing about actions 08:00.929 --> 08:03.492 the Marine Corps will take to improve the culture, 08:03.492 --> 08:06.387 especially in a Marine Corps that is in the process 08:06.387 --> 08:09.680 of fully integrating female Marines into its ranks. 08:09.680 --> 08:11.552 With that, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to our briefings, 08:11.552 --> 08:13.709 both the open and closed sessions, thank you. 08:13.709 --> 08:14.542 - Thank you. 08:14.542 --> 08:18.466 We'll begin with you, Secretary Stackley, welcome. 08:18.466 --> 08:20.757 - Chairmen McCain, Ranking Member Reed, 08:20.757 --> 08:22.990 members of the Armed Services Committee, 08:22.990 --> 08:25.240 thank you for this hearing. 08:25.513 --> 08:29.195 Discovery and investigation these past several weeks 08:29.195 --> 08:31.623 into the toxic, predatory behavior 08:31.623 --> 08:34.790 harbored by the website Marines United 08:34.980 --> 08:36.563 has uncovered a grievous breakdown 08:36.563 --> 08:38.980 of good order and discipline, 08:39.021 --> 08:41.521 a violation of our core values 08:41.613 --> 08:44.634 and what amounts to an insider threat. 08:44.634 --> 08:48.695 Some unknown number of Marines or former Marines, 08:48.695 --> 08:51.191 who in denigrating their fellow Marines, 08:51.191 --> 08:54.112 undermine the very honor and integrity 08:54.112 --> 08:56.065 and unit cohesion that has long 08:56.065 --> 08:58.662 underpinned the strength of the Corps. 08:58.662 --> 09:01.329 Marines United is a bell ringer. 09:01.595 --> 09:03.773 Beyond the emotions that surround this issue, 09:03.773 --> 09:06.273 anger, revulsion, frustration, 09:06.748 --> 09:10.831 we are committed, dedicated to fixing this issue. 09:11.106 --> 09:13.871 And our immediate actions are three-fold. 09:13.871 --> 09:15.823 First, we must take care of those Marines 09:15.823 --> 09:18.732 who have been victimized by this behavior. 09:18.732 --> 09:21.267 Counseling, legal services and beyond, 09:21.267 --> 09:24.018 in strict confidence inside and outside 09:24.018 --> 09:26.167 the chain of command, every resource will be 09:26.167 --> 09:29.500 made available to those seeking support. 09:29.968 --> 09:33.120 We will prosecute the matter of Marines United 09:33.120 --> 09:35.431 to the full extent of our abilities 09:35.431 --> 09:38.627 and we will hold accountable those who have violated 09:38.627 --> 09:42.544 the standards borne by law, by policy, by code. 09:43.498 --> 09:47.154 Of the 30,000 members reported to be on Marines United, 09:47.154 --> 09:51.321 we do not know how many are in fact active duty Marines, 09:51.794 --> 09:53.333 much less how many, in fact, 09:53.333 --> 09:56.298 participated in this denigrating affair. 09:56.298 --> 09:58.654 Getting to the facts will take time, 09:58.654 --> 10:00.397 but the Navy Criminal Investigative Service 10:00.397 --> 10:02.774 is working every lead, every path available 10:02.774 --> 10:05.258 to overcome the challenges we are running into 10:05.258 --> 10:08.341 posed by nameless, faceless predators 10:08.405 --> 10:11.322 and cyber bullying on social media. 10:11.876 --> 10:13.417 Perhaps most importantly, we will get at the root 10:13.417 --> 10:16.720 underlying issues in order to eradicate this cancer. 10:16.720 --> 10:18.556 The taskforce formed by the commandant 10:18.556 --> 10:20.393 is central to this effort, 10:20.393 --> 10:23.897 which today involves senior officers and enlisted, 10:23.897 --> 10:26.376 will expand to include the expertise called upon 10:26.376 --> 10:29.289 by this problem and in the long run, 10:29.289 --> 10:30.809 will involve commitment by every 10:30.809 --> 10:33.655 tier of leadership within the Marine Corps. 10:33.655 --> 10:35.626 This again, will be a long road. 10:35.626 --> 10:38.058 But we are on the road for good 10:38.058 --> 10:41.530 and we will share with the committee our efforts, 10:41.530 --> 10:45.697 our course, our progress on that course as we move forward. 10:46.711 --> 10:48.675 Every young man and woman who takes the oath 10:48.675 --> 10:51.340 to support and defend our constitution, 10:51.340 --> 10:54.083 who puts on the uniform and puts their life on the line 10:54.083 --> 10:56.851 to defend our way of life here at home 10:56.851 --> 11:01.018 is owed utmost trust and respect by every American. 11:01.409 --> 11:03.060 Any breech of that trust and respect 11:03.060 --> 11:05.923 within the very ranks of the services themselves 11:05.923 --> 11:08.498 must be dealt with immediately, decisively, 11:08.498 --> 11:11.331 unceasingly before, like a cancer, 11:11.564 --> 11:15.731 it steals from us our strength, our spirit, our honor. 11:15.945 --> 11:18.205 We will be immediate, decisive 11:18.205 --> 11:21.087 and unceasing in fixing this problem 11:21.087 --> 11:25.087 and in defeating this attack on our core values. 11:25.651 --> 11:26.725 Thank you Mr. Chairman, 11:26.725 --> 11:28.848 I look forward to addressing your questions. 11:28.848 --> 11:31.931 - [McCain] Thank you, General Neller? 11:32.020 --> 11:33.865 - Chairman McCain, Ranking Member Reed, 11:33.865 --> 11:37.254 senators of the committee, normally I appear before this 11:37.254 --> 11:38.907 committee to take an opportunity 11:38.907 --> 11:41.679 to tell you about the extraordinary actions 11:41.679 --> 11:43.185 and things your Marines are doing 11:43.185 --> 11:45.222 at home and around the globe. 11:45.222 --> 11:47.141 Today, however, is different. 11:47.141 --> 11:50.710 I'm here to discuss the details of some truly disturbing 11:50.710 --> 11:52.853 and unacceptable actions that have allegedly been committed 11:52.853 --> 11:55.195 on social media, primarily against 11:55.195 --> 11:57.521 the women of our Marine Corps. 11:57.521 --> 11:59.046 The recent release of information, 11:59.046 --> 12:02.106 first uncovered by a combat wounded Marine reporter 12:02.106 --> 12:05.297 about the online posting of explicit and lewd pictures 12:05.297 --> 12:08.275 and then even more troubling, derogatory, 12:08.275 --> 12:10.756 demeaning and in some cases sexually violent comments 12:10.756 --> 12:13.771 about female Marines are why we're here 12:13.771 --> 12:15.677 and what we're going to talk about. 12:15.677 --> 12:19.509 Such actions pervert our culture and bring me here. 12:19.509 --> 12:21.626 As I'm sure you did, I received this recent news 12:21.626 --> 12:25.322 regarding actions on the Marines United Facebook site 12:25.322 --> 12:27.572 with a mixture of emotions. 12:27.630 --> 12:31.797 Disappointment, shock, anger, disgust and outrage. 12:32.665 --> 12:34.280 The Marine Corps I've served for over 40 years 12:34.280 --> 12:37.447 has a problem and we intend to fix it. 12:38.539 --> 12:41.588 I struggle with labeling the problem we face. 12:41.588 --> 12:43.842 Some say we have a problem with our culture, 12:43.842 --> 12:46.164 some say it's an insider threat. 12:46.164 --> 12:48.870 My natural inclination is to resist this 12:48.870 --> 12:50.950 because I believe in my heart the Marine Corps culture 12:50.950 --> 12:52.288 is based on our core values of 12:52.288 --> 12:54.404 honor, courage and commitment. 12:54.404 --> 12:56.234 It represents who we are. 12:56.234 --> 12:58.275 The online behavior of some individuals, 12:58.275 --> 13:00.358 whether they're currently serving Marines, former Marines 13:00.358 --> 13:03.025 or others who simply wandered in 13:03.259 --> 13:07.205 have attacked our Marine Corp values, our ethos. 13:07.205 --> 13:09.557 We draw our strength from the team. 13:09.557 --> 13:13.229 Everything we do in training from day one is focused on 13:13.229 --> 13:15.682 the team and not the individual. 13:15.682 --> 13:17.531 But some seem to have forgotten that every member 13:17.531 --> 13:20.852 of our team is an equal and a valued member of our Corps. 13:20.852 --> 13:22.184 Every Marine has a role to play, 13:22.184 --> 13:23.676 every Marine earns our title, 13:23.676 --> 13:27.426 commands the respect of their fellow Marines. 13:27.645 --> 13:29.914 We proudly advertise the transformation that occurs 13:29.914 --> 13:33.294 at recruit, training and officer candidate school. 13:33.294 --> 13:35.096 First, by the methods by which we recruit, 13:35.096 --> 13:36.334 train and transform young men 13:36.334 --> 13:39.076 and women from citizens to Marines 13:39.076 --> 13:41.877 but the transformation isn't perfect in all cases, 13:41.877 --> 13:43.914 some Marines can lose their way 13:43.914 --> 13:46.465 and disregard or fail to comprehend our ethos. 13:46.465 --> 13:49.138 At every level of leadership, we must do a better job 13:49.138 --> 13:51.577 of sustaining this transformation 13:51.577 --> 13:54.089 and eliminating any behavior that targets any individuals 13:54.089 --> 13:56.767 less than a teammate or fellow Marine. 13:56.767 --> 13:59.043 We must attack any behavior that has a corrosive effect 13:59.043 --> 14:02.543 on good order and discipline of our Corps. 14:03.106 --> 14:04.539 I came into the Marine Corps with the problems 14:04.539 --> 14:07.456 of the '70s, shortly after Vietnam, 14:07.717 --> 14:11.242 drug use and race relations were tearing us apart. 14:11.242 --> 14:13.881 Some of you were there then and you remember this. 14:13.881 --> 14:15.719 Our commandant at the time, General Louis Wilson, 14:15.719 --> 14:19.174 took a firm stance to get our Corps back to true north. 14:19.174 --> 14:20.644 He improved our recruiting standards 14:20.644 --> 14:22.324 and made it his personal mission to address 14:22.324 --> 14:26.119 those who can't or don't want to measure up to our standards 14:26.119 --> 14:29.452 needed to find another place to perform. 14:30.044 --> 14:33.152 I believe we face a similar situation today. 14:33.152 --> 14:35.018 The vast majority of Marines past and present 14:35.018 --> 14:38.749 are American citizens, are good and decent people. 14:38.749 --> 14:40.633 They are as upset by the behavior represented 14:40.633 --> 14:43.079 on Marines United as you and I, 14:43.079 --> 14:45.766 and I'm calling out all Marines to take a stand 14:45.766 --> 14:48.097 against this destructive conduct, 14:48.097 --> 14:50.545 to take a stand and support and respect every Marine, 14:50.545 --> 14:53.971 to demonstrate to the American people who we really are, 14:53.971 --> 14:58.051 that we embody our ethos of honor, courage and commitment. 14:58.051 --> 14:59.787 When any Marine unit goes into action, 14:59.787 --> 15:01.715 there are never bystanders. 15:01.715 --> 15:02.749 We all have a role to play. 15:02.749 --> 15:05.471 We all have to be fully committed to the mission. 15:05.471 --> 15:06.765 The same is true in garrison, 15:06.765 --> 15:09.120 in the barracks, back here at home. 15:09.120 --> 15:11.370 There can be no bystanders. 15:11.647 --> 15:13.569 We must all be engaged as teammates. 15:13.569 --> 15:15.285 Every Marine has a role to play 15:15.285 --> 15:18.535 to ensure that our team remains strong. 15:18.676 --> 15:20.990 I would ask to take this opportunity to speak directly 15:20.990 --> 15:24.776 to every female in our Marine Corps, past and present. 15:24.776 --> 15:26.803 I know I'm asking a lot of you right now, 15:26.803 --> 15:29.321 but I ask you to trust the leadership of the Marine Corps 15:29.321 --> 15:31.257 to take action and correct this problem. 15:31.257 --> 15:33.979 I ask you to trust me personally as your commandant 15:33.979 --> 15:35.903 and when I say I'm outraged that many of you haven't been 15:35.903 --> 15:39.603 given the same respect when you earn the title Marine. 15:39.603 --> 15:40.774 I know you aren't asking to be 15:40.774 --> 15:43.673 labeled as victims, for anyone's pity. 15:43.673 --> 15:45.184 I know you would find that as insulting 15:45.184 --> 15:48.763 as the recent behavior and comments on social media. 15:48.763 --> 15:50.662 I know what you do for our Corps, for our team 15:50.662 --> 15:52.720 and what you've contributed to include during 15:52.720 --> 15:56.709 the past 16 years of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. 15:56.709 --> 15:58.705 I know when you earn the eagle, globe and anchor, 15:58.705 --> 16:02.150 you wear it as proudly as the Marines you are. 16:02.150 --> 16:05.163 To the men in our Corps, serving today 16:05.163 --> 16:08.149 and those whom no longer wear the uniform, 16:08.149 --> 16:09.853 you're still Marines. 16:09.853 --> 16:11.868 I need you to ask yourselves, 16:11.868 --> 16:13.928 how much more do the females of our Corps 16:13.928 --> 16:16.095 have to do to be accepted? 16:16.527 --> 16:19.266 Was it enough when Major Megan McClung 16:19.266 --> 16:21.505 was killed by an IED in Ramadi? 16:21.505 --> 16:23.814 Or Captain Jennifer Harris killed when her helicopter 16:23.814 --> 16:26.307 was shot down while she was flying 16:26.307 --> 16:28.997 blood from Baghdad to Fallujah Surgical? 16:28.997 --> 16:32.058 Or Corporals Jennifer Parcell and Hallie Ann Sharat 16:32.058 --> 16:36.225 and Ramona Valdez all killed by the hands of our enemies? 16:36.745 --> 16:38.144 What is it going to take for you 16:38.144 --> 16:41.061 to accept these Marines as Marines? 16:41.988 --> 16:43.906 I'm committed to making this right 16:43.906 --> 16:46.225 and I need all Marines equally committed. 16:46.225 --> 16:47.817 We all have to commit to getting rid of this 16:47.817 --> 16:49.285 perversion to our culture. 16:49.285 --> 16:50.702 Enough is enough. 16:52.466 --> 16:55.032 So, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, 16:55.032 --> 16:58.975 we'll take action to correct this stain on our Marine Corps. 16:58.975 --> 17:01.276 I have no illusions or delusions about how difficult 17:01.276 --> 17:03.344 that will be, but that doesn't mean 17:03.344 --> 17:06.427 we're going to stand by and watch it. 17:06.507 --> 17:08.340 It can't go on anymore 17:08.955 --> 17:12.455 and I'm prepared to answer your questions. 17:12.517 --> 17:13.924 - [McCain] General Neller, 17:13.924 --> 17:16.913 I want to thank you for that statement. 17:16.913 --> 17:18.973 I think it's strong and it's powerful 17:18.973 --> 17:22.806 and frankly, it's reassuring to this committee 17:24.287 --> 17:26.120 about your commitment. 17:27.018 --> 17:29.535 Sargent Major Green, do you have any comments to add 17:29.535 --> 17:31.868 to the Commandant's remarks? 17:32.893 --> 17:34.930 - Good morning Chairman, Senator McCain, 17:34.930 --> 17:36.446 Ranking Member Senator Reed, 17:36.446 --> 17:39.113 and all members of the congress. 17:39.122 --> 17:41.126 I want to thank you all for allowing the Marine Corps 17:41.126 --> 17:43.345 to come before you today, the leadership, 17:43.345 --> 17:45.441 to explain exactly what we're doing. 17:45.441 --> 17:48.167 I didn't prepare any words, but I can tell you 17:48.167 --> 17:51.001 no one's more outraged than the leadership you see 17:51.001 --> 17:52.769 sitting before you today. 17:52.769 --> 17:56.172 This tears at the very fibers that bond us together 17:56.172 --> 18:00.255 as we fight for the nation's freedom and liberty. 18:01.186 --> 18:03.603 We're protecting our victims, 18:03.942 --> 18:06.381 we're allowing the legal system to go forward 18:06.381 --> 18:07.977 so that we can bring those who have 18:07.977 --> 18:11.591 committed these crimes before the commandant 18:11.591 --> 18:14.516 and leadership and hold them accountable. 18:14.516 --> 18:18.580 We're researching our policies and reinforcing the gaps 18:18.580 --> 18:21.268 and I'm prepared to do whatever it takes to protect, 18:21.268 --> 18:22.894 not just enlisted Marines, 18:22.894 --> 18:25.105 but all Marines and their dependents 18:25.105 --> 18:26.990 and those who serve under the eagle, globe and anchor. 18:26.990 --> 18:29.490 Thank you for the opportunity. 18:29.490 --> 18:30.457 - Thank you sir and thank you 18:30.457 --> 18:33.124 for your outstanding leadership. 18:34.706 --> 18:38.873 General Neller, has the Marine Corps embarked on an effort 18:39.263 --> 18:43.430 to communicate with and assist identifiable victims? 18:49.060 --> 18:52.060 - Sir, as far as the Marines United, 18:53.038 --> 18:56.223 there have been a small number of victims 18:56.223 --> 18:57.527 or people who have claimed that 18:57.527 --> 18:59.618 they were targeted by this website. 18:59.618 --> 19:03.701 And so we're talking to those and NCIS is working 19:03.997 --> 19:06.428 investigations on those that they're aware of. 19:06.428 --> 19:08.585 But the number is too small and again, 19:08.585 --> 19:10.945 we need others to come forward. 19:10.945 --> 19:11.992 - [McCain] What are you doing to 19:11.992 --> 19:15.492 encourage others to come forward, General? 19:16.563 --> 19:18.103 - This hearing is an opportunity 19:18.103 --> 19:20.686 to ask Marines to come forward, 19:20.686 --> 19:22.341 not just Marines that may have been victimized, 19:22.341 --> 19:24.291 but Marines that have been aware of this. 19:24.291 --> 19:25.723 And I think that's starting to happen. 19:25.723 --> 19:28.890 We're getting information from others, 19:30.381 --> 19:32.315 from other men, other male Marines, 19:32.315 --> 19:35.735 that they know about this and that they are, as I stated, 19:35.735 --> 19:39.152 I believe, as upset about this as we are. 19:41.339 --> 19:42.798 We had a press conference the other day, 19:42.798 --> 19:46.465 where again, I asked Marines for their help. 19:46.734 --> 19:49.447 We've gone out to the leadership, 19:49.447 --> 19:53.326 told them the path where they can direct Marines. 19:53.326 --> 19:54.926 I've directed commanders to go out 19:54.926 --> 19:57.131 and talk to their Marines about this 19:57.131 --> 19:59.038 and directed them that if anyone comes forward, 19:59.038 --> 20:03.205 they can be directed toward their victim advocate, 20:03.798 --> 20:06.245 to their chaplain, to their victim legal counsel, 20:06.245 --> 20:08.444 or their chain of command and they're gonna forward this. 20:08.444 --> 20:10.923 We put a site up on our Marines.mil webpage, 20:10.923 --> 20:13.354 if you're aware of any actions of this 20:13.354 --> 20:16.881 where someone's being bullied or harassed in cyberspace 20:16.881 --> 20:20.685 to contact a certain number or an email address 20:20.685 --> 20:21.518 or their chain of command. 20:21.518 --> 20:23.740 I know NCIS has done the same. 20:23.740 --> 20:26.928 So we've gone out in any possible form that we can 20:26.928 --> 20:28.637 to ask Marines to come forward. 20:28.637 --> 20:30.474 If they're either a victim here 20:30.474 --> 20:32.810 or witting of anything of this behavior. 20:32.810 --> 20:35.925 - And you're assuring them that there would be 20:35.925 --> 20:38.175 no reprisal or retaliation? 20:40.134 --> 20:43.344 - They have my word that the leadership 20:43.344 --> 20:45.596 will not take retribution against them. 20:45.596 --> 20:46.938 And I know that's a big issue. 20:46.938 --> 20:50.409 And I've talked to some of the members here about that. 20:50.409 --> 20:51.510 That's what I know it's difficult. 20:51.510 --> 20:53.516 Because I can't necessarily guarantee, 20:53.516 --> 20:57.257 social media, one of the insidious natures of this problem 20:57.257 --> 21:01.155 is there's a certain level of anonymity out there. 21:01.155 --> 21:05.072 And so if you were to push back on any of this, 21:06.199 --> 21:07.960 you immediately get attacked by the crowd, 21:07.960 --> 21:09.793 and they're anonymous. 21:10.268 --> 21:12.013 I think for many of us who don't participate 21:12.013 --> 21:15.263 in that type of behavior, that's foreign to us. 21:15.263 --> 21:19.346 And I'll admit, you know, this is something that, 21:19.797 --> 21:21.977 I am not a social media person. 21:21.977 --> 21:23.233 We use it to message Marines 21:23.233 --> 21:25.557 and talk about the good things that Marines do 21:25.557 --> 21:28.474 but sites like this are not a place 21:29.510 --> 21:31.805 that I would think any of us would frequent. 21:31.805 --> 21:34.523 Even with the altruistic and positive things, 21:34.523 --> 21:36.752 as you mentioned Chairman, that Marines United 21:36.752 --> 21:40.261 was set up to do, help veterans deal with whatever 21:40.261 --> 21:43.228 issues they had coming back from the fight. 21:43.228 --> 21:44.645 So there is risk. 21:46.140 --> 21:50.307 I can't protect people necessarily on social media. 21:50.523 --> 21:52.446 I can ensure that the chain of command 21:52.446 --> 21:55.775 is gonna take action and I can direct commanders to 21:55.775 --> 21:59.025 take any allegations that anybody makes 21:59.715 --> 22:01.739 and they're gonna take them and follow them through 22:01.739 --> 22:04.910 or report them to NCIS or do an investigation. 22:04.910 --> 22:08.743 But our ability to, and this is not an excuse, 22:09.809 --> 22:11.646 our ability to manage what happens 22:11.646 --> 22:15.396 on social media if it remains up is an issue. 22:15.696 --> 22:19.481 I will say though, when we have seen this type of behavior 22:19.481 --> 22:22.447 and we've gone to the organizations that host this, 22:22.447 --> 22:25.603 they have, in general, been very helpful with us 22:25.603 --> 22:28.020 with taking these sites down. 22:28.404 --> 22:31.103 But when they do that, what we've also seen, 22:31.103 --> 22:33.520 is then they move, they move. 22:34.108 --> 22:37.410 And they also, and I would prefer to get into it 22:37.410 --> 22:40.734 in the closed discussion about what the legalities are 22:40.734 --> 22:44.651 about certain things that happen on cyberspace. 22:44.844 --> 22:49.011 Because the law, there are certain things about the law 22:50.242 --> 22:51.511 that are not always going to be 22:51.511 --> 22:54.594 helpful to us getting accountability. 22:55.077 --> 22:57.554 Again, that's not an excuse, but I think 22:57.554 --> 23:00.944 there are some things that we may need your help with. 23:00.944 --> 23:01.777 - I agree. 23:03.047 --> 23:07.047 Secretary Stackley, can commanders use the UCMJ, 23:07.391 --> 23:10.224 the Uniform Code of Military Justice to hold personnel 23:10.224 --> 23:13.786 accountable for transmitting, receiving, viewing, 23:13.786 --> 23:16.846 possessing photos without the consent 23:16.846 --> 23:19.096 of the person in your view? 23:19.660 --> 23:21.566 - Yes sir and now what we're trying to do 23:21.566 --> 23:24.899 is actually run to ground each instance, 23:25.235 --> 23:27.652 each example that we can find 23:27.652 --> 23:31.819 where we have the perpetrator, we have the evidence 23:32.018 --> 23:34.719 that frankly has been preserved so that we can 23:34.719 --> 23:37.844 hold them accountable in accordance with articles 120 23:37.844 --> 23:39.511 and 134 of the UCMJ. 23:41.208 --> 23:43.227 - And obviously General Neller pointed out 23:43.227 --> 23:45.610 one of the challenges we face and that is 23:45.610 --> 23:49.189 of these websites just morphing over to another site 23:49.189 --> 23:51.189 after they're shut down. 23:52.020 --> 23:54.537 - Yes sir, I use the term nameless, faceless, 23:54.537 --> 23:56.905 it's very difficult to identify the individuals 23:56.905 --> 24:00.738 that are on these websites and as we work with 24:01.468 --> 24:03.427 the owners of the websites, 24:03.427 --> 24:05.060 we have to deal with first amendment rights, 24:05.060 --> 24:07.166 we have to deal with Privacy Act issues, 24:07.166 --> 24:08.958 so we're pushing it as far as we can 24:08.958 --> 24:11.587 to get every piece of evidence that we can find 24:11.587 --> 24:13.872 and the key to this, as the commandant described, 24:13.872 --> 24:16.108 is to have individuals come forward. 24:16.108 --> 24:20.275 So we're trying to reach out, not just get the word out 24:21.544 --> 24:22.377 for people to come forward, 24:22.377 --> 24:24.803 but also provide an environment where they'd feel 24:24.803 --> 24:28.419 safe and secure to bring their case forward. 24:28.419 --> 24:29.669 - Senator Reed? 24:30.100 --> 24:31.547 - Well, thank you very much Mr. Chairman 24:31.547 --> 24:32.932 and I'd just like to ask one question 24:32.932 --> 24:34.363 because I know there's great interest 24:34.363 --> 24:36.115 of my colleagues in the public session 24:36.115 --> 24:39.282 and then we have closed session later. 24:39.987 --> 24:42.102 General Neller, this is not the first experience 24:42.102 --> 24:43.779 recently the Marine Corps has had. 24:43.779 --> 24:47.112 In 20 (audio cuts out). 24:50.226 --> 24:52.476 Did you react to that issue 24:52.598 --> 24:54.386 and what lessons have you learned 24:54.386 --> 24:58.553 and how are you applying those lessons to this situation? 24:59.702 --> 25:02.219 - You know, senator, we went back and looked at that 25:02.219 --> 25:03.442 and looked at all the actions 25:03.442 --> 25:07.463 and I can give you a long list of things that we did, 25:07.463 --> 25:10.463 as far as addressing sexual assault, 25:10.836 --> 25:13.586 changing values based training at 25:14.270 --> 25:17.353 all our different levels of training. 25:18.119 --> 25:20.682 There was a policy written about conduct on social media 25:20.682 --> 25:24.849 in 2010, but it wasn't focused on this type of thing. 25:25.464 --> 25:29.631 We're in the process of actually issuing out today 25:29.648 --> 25:33.315 an updated policy on conduct on social media 25:33.656 --> 25:37.073 and what is acceptable and not acceptable 25:37.554 --> 25:40.148 and what is a violation of a lawful order 25:40.148 --> 25:42.731 or article 134 or article 120C. 25:45.538 --> 25:47.089 So there was a lot of training that we did, 25:47.089 --> 25:50.422 but looking back at it, I don't know if, 25:51.265 --> 25:54.064 I can only speak for myself Senator, 25:54.064 --> 25:56.355 we were focused on the issues of sexual assault, 25:56.355 --> 25:59.522 which were very important at that time 25:59.783 --> 26:03.190 and I don't think we got at the social media thing 26:03.190 --> 26:06.165 to the level that we're going to get at it now. 26:06.165 --> 26:08.610 And I put myself in that category. 26:08.610 --> 26:10.434 I've went back and I thought about all the stuff 26:10.434 --> 26:12.412 we talked about and all the things that the 26:12.412 --> 26:14.631 Commandant General Amos did with the Heritage Brief, 26:14.631 --> 26:17.736 about our values, about how we treat each other. 26:17.736 --> 26:21.850 The things we've done since, about discussing alcohol abuse 26:21.850 --> 26:24.123 and protect what you've earned and even the message 26:24.123 --> 26:26.171 I put out after the first of this year 26:26.171 --> 26:29.509 stating we need to treat each other better. 26:29.509 --> 26:30.661 Though, when I wrote that, 26:30.661 --> 26:34.578 I didn't have in my mind this particular, so... 26:37.776 --> 26:39.724 So I have no excuse for that. 26:39.724 --> 26:43.891 We were dealing with a lot of things and that itself, 26:46.345 --> 26:48.762 now this is front and center. 26:50.403 --> 26:53.903 And I think part of it is, I think victims 26:55.099 --> 26:57.825 were afraid to come forward because if they came forward, 26:57.825 --> 26:59.030 they were going to be attacked 26:59.030 --> 27:01.530 10 fold on social media again. 27:02.154 --> 27:05.709 And I think for those that don't participate in this domain, 27:05.709 --> 27:08.144 I don't think we, I think we're ignorant. 27:08.144 --> 27:10.421 Okay, I'm not ignorant anymore. 27:10.421 --> 27:11.588 I'm trainable. 27:12.737 --> 27:15.636 And I accept responsibility for that 27:15.636 --> 27:17.516 but we were focused on other things 27:17.516 --> 27:19.914 that we were trying to get at 27:19.914 --> 27:22.426 and I don't think social media was absent from that, 27:22.426 --> 27:24.765 but I don't think it got front and center 27:24.765 --> 27:27.352 like it should have at the time. 27:27.352 --> 27:29.185 - Thank you very much. 27:29.255 --> 27:33.422 Again, I think we all recognize that the seriousness 27:33.541 --> 27:37.708 of this issue, it goes to the very heart of the Corps, 27:39.128 --> 27:42.237 and not just the Marine Corps, but every service. 27:42.237 --> 27:45.947 You can't have individual Marines, soldiers, sailors, 27:45.947 --> 27:49.530 Airmen, Coastguardsmen who are marginalized 27:50.334 --> 27:53.047 because of gender or any other characteristic, 27:53.047 --> 27:55.382 so we have a lot of work to do, 27:55.382 --> 27:57.213 both you and the United States Congress. 27:57.213 --> 27:59.213 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 28:00.588 --> 28:04.755 - General Neller, the first quote that I heard from you 28:06.934 --> 28:11.101 was that those who are involved will be held accountable. 28:12.712 --> 28:14.728 I know your background, I know you, 28:14.728 --> 28:18.141 I have every confidence that is what's gonna happen. 28:18.141 --> 28:19.808 I have no questions. 28:23.654 --> 28:25.737 - Thank you Mr. Chairman. 28:26.170 --> 28:29.670 Secretary Stackley, a November 2015 report 28:30.355 --> 28:32.410 from the Government Accountability Office 28:32.410 --> 28:34.019 found the Department of Defense measure 28:34.019 --> 28:36.639 to assess the effectiveness of its sexual assault 28:36.639 --> 28:38.540 prevention efforts were not fully developed 28:38.540 --> 28:40.494 and missing key attributes. 28:40.494 --> 28:42.066 Can you tell me if anything has been done 28:42.066 --> 28:45.233 since that GAO report to address that? 28:46.665 --> 28:48.325 - [Sean] Yes Ma'am, there-- 28:48.325 --> 28:51.360 - And can you tell me specifically what? 28:51.360 --> 28:53.905 - OK, there are a list of initiatives that have gone out 28:53.905 --> 28:58.072 in terms of first identifying cases of sexual assault. 28:58.214 --> 29:01.215 And this gets right down to everything from 29:01.215 --> 29:03.882 anonymous surveys to interviews, 29:04.542 --> 29:08.206 to capturing reports and then running reports to ground. 29:08.206 --> 29:12.373 I could provide examples of things that have been done, 29:13.158 --> 29:16.239 but when we look at the statistics and the results, 29:16.239 --> 29:18.878 what we're trying to do is correlate measures 29:18.878 --> 29:21.785 that were taken with results that we're getting. 29:21.785 --> 29:24.822 And frankly, we're challenged to do that. 29:24.822 --> 29:26.989 The statistics move around 29:30.299 --> 29:33.312 and I'm trying to, within the Department of the Navy, 29:33.312 --> 29:35.979 I'm trying to, within our SAPRO, 29:36.984 --> 29:39.754 trying to correlate what actions are we taking 29:39.754 --> 29:41.689 that are giving us positive results 29:41.689 --> 29:43.248 that we have confidence in, 29:43.248 --> 29:45.447 so in fact we can grow those actions 29:45.447 --> 29:48.300 versus a number of initiatives that we can't quite 29:48.300 --> 29:52.300 correlate to the results that we're looking for. 29:52.369 --> 29:54.465 - Well, I would argue that one of the challenges 29:54.465 --> 29:57.321 is that people are not being held accountable 29:57.321 --> 30:01.488 in a way that sends a very strong message to others 30:02.203 --> 30:06.365 that they serve with that this is unacceptable behavior. 30:06.365 --> 30:08.616 General Neller, according to 30:08.616 --> 30:11.255 2014 RAND Military Workplace Study, 30:11.255 --> 30:12.643 the Marine Corps has the highest rate 30:12.643 --> 30:14.792 of sexual assault among the service branches. 30:14.792 --> 30:18.959 And I know that we are not talking about sexual assault 30:21.006 --> 30:23.673 directly as we often think about 30:23.801 --> 30:26.384 the definition in this scandal, 30:27.749 --> 30:31.916 but I believe there's a correlation between the two 30:32.599 --> 30:36.766 and so can you just respond to why you think that is 30:37.846 --> 30:40.513 and I appreciate your statements 30:40.529 --> 30:42.867 and the statements of everyone here 30:42.867 --> 30:45.867 about needing to address this issue, 30:45.874 --> 30:48.252 but understand that this committee has 30:48.252 --> 30:50.415 heard those kinds of statements for as long 30:50.415 --> 30:53.099 as I've been on the committee and I think much longer, 30:53.099 --> 30:55.432 so it's hard to believe that 30:57.828 --> 30:59.437 something is really gonna be done, 30:59.437 --> 31:02.937 when we hear this repeated again and again 31:03.169 --> 31:07.336 and we see these kinds of situations again and again, 31:07.773 --> 31:10.602 so why should we believe that it's going to be 31:10.602 --> 31:14.519 different this time than it's been in the past? 31:19.963 --> 31:24.130 - As I stated earlier, senator, this particular issue, 31:25.600 --> 31:29.079 I mean, we can talk about sexual assault and the numbers 31:29.079 --> 31:32.028 and as the Secretary said, we struggle. 31:32.028 --> 31:35.353 I mean, I had expected that the numbers would go up 31:35.353 --> 31:38.770 when we started our training back in 2013 31:38.979 --> 31:40.939 to try to get after sexual assault per se 31:40.939 --> 31:43.455 and I've talked to Senator Gillibrand, Senator McCain 31:43.455 --> 31:45.443 about this and that they would flatten out 31:45.443 --> 31:46.895 and then they wouldn't go down. 31:46.895 --> 31:50.046 And they flattened out, but they have not gone down. 31:50.046 --> 31:51.349 I'd give you some other statistics, 31:51.349 --> 31:55.238 I can track every one of these allegations to show you 31:55.238 --> 31:59.405 how it was culminated in some sort of action or no action. 32:01.536 --> 32:05.703 Why is it gonna be different now with the social media? 32:06.924 --> 32:10.841 I don't, I think we've, we addressed the action 32:11.007 --> 32:13.989 of individuals, which is sexual assault, bullying. 32:13.989 --> 32:18.156 But I think the bigger issue is within the culture, 32:18.682 --> 32:20.839 we haven't addressed the fact with all Marines 32:20.839 --> 32:23.256 that all Marines are Marines. 32:23.272 --> 32:24.564 I mean, and the female Marines, 32:24.564 --> 32:27.481 they're a small group in our Corps. 32:28.343 --> 32:32.510 And for whatever reason, there are still some number, 32:33.191 --> 32:34.621 and I don't think this is separate 32:34.621 --> 32:35.835 from the sexual assault issue, 32:35.835 --> 32:38.844 but this issue of denigration of women, 32:38.844 --> 32:40.927 objectification of women, 32:42.342 --> 32:44.500 misogyny or however you want to articulate it 32:44.500 --> 32:46.167 or just bad behavior 32:49.149 --> 32:51.851 is tied into the way that some groups 32:51.851 --> 32:56.018 of male Marines look at women in the Marine Corps. 32:56.066 --> 32:58.399 And I think we can fix that. 32:59.082 --> 33:00.963 I think we can fix it by holding those accountable 33:00.963 --> 33:04.630 who are gonna, don't want to accept the fact 33:07.029 --> 33:09.249 and we've gotta tell commanders, hey look, 33:09.249 --> 33:12.319 there's things you can do out here within the UCMJ 33:12.319 --> 33:14.486 if the parameters are met. 33:15.687 --> 33:17.994 But this is a very difficult problem. 33:17.994 --> 33:20.327 On the sexual assault thing, 33:21.892 --> 33:24.459 I'm not gonna give up on any of this. 33:24.459 --> 33:26.297 I still think part of our, 33:26.297 --> 33:27.777 I mean I could give you the demographics, 33:27.777 --> 33:30.890 that's an excuse, you know the percentage of the Marines 33:30.890 --> 33:34.153 and what their ages are and all that and the numbers. 33:34.153 --> 33:36.153 We're a young force, OK. 33:36.331 --> 33:37.766 But they're Marines and they're expected 33:37.766 --> 33:40.428 to conduct themselves at a higher level. 33:40.428 --> 33:43.011 You expect that, I expect that. 33:43.502 --> 33:46.003 I think that alcohol abuse is another problem 33:46.003 --> 33:47.809 that we're going to have to deal with, 33:47.809 --> 33:50.559 that I think will get after that. 33:51.245 --> 33:53.782 But this is all about our leaders going out there, 33:53.782 --> 33:55.731 setting the example and expecting 33:55.731 --> 33:59.231 that behavior's gonna be in a certain way. 34:00.801 --> 34:02.884 Is it gonna be different? 34:03.702 --> 34:07.514 It's gotta be different and that's my charge to myself. 34:07.514 --> 34:11.681 I've gotta go out there and, as the Senior Marine, 34:12.765 --> 34:13.988 say this is the way it's gonna be 34:13.988 --> 34:15.280 and if you're not going to get along, 34:15.280 --> 34:17.388 if you have a problem with this, 34:17.388 --> 34:19.551 then, as I mentioned in the video I did, 34:19.551 --> 34:22.685 you need to ask yourself, do you really want to be a Marine? 34:22.685 --> 34:26.852 If that's not gonna change it, then I believe it is, 34:28.018 --> 34:31.601 I've heard enough from enough men and women 34:31.909 --> 34:35.014 that are seniors out there that they realize, 34:35.014 --> 34:37.761 why they didn't realize it before, I have no excuse, 34:37.761 --> 34:41.686 but that we're gonna change and that we can change. 34:41.686 --> 34:45.853 And all I would ask is an opportunity to address this. 34:46.709 --> 34:49.376 I know you've heard that before. 34:50.408 --> 34:51.908 But that's my ask. 34:53.895 --> 34:56.757 - Thank you General, I would suggest that you use the term 34:56.757 --> 35:00.492 survivor rather than victim for those people who have been-- 35:00.492 --> 35:01.333 - [Neller] Yes Ma'am. 35:01.333 --> 35:02.250 - Attacked. 35:03.318 --> 35:05.568 - [McCain] Senator Fischer. 35:07.621 --> 35:10.289 - General, this behavior has to change. 35:10.289 --> 35:14.456 It's gone on for too long and we need to see those changes. 35:15.884 --> 35:18.551 You spoke about social media and 35:21.718 --> 35:24.718 the lack of recognition that you had 35:25.740 --> 35:28.657 on what's going on on social media, 35:28.952 --> 35:30.958 the Corps does have a policy 35:30.958 --> 35:33.708 on social media, is that correct? 35:33.858 --> 35:35.174 - Yes, ma'am, we do. 35:35.174 --> 35:37.866 - And you have spoken today about making 35:37.866 --> 35:41.616 changes to that policy, do you have any ideas 35:42.362 --> 35:44.944 on how that policy needs to be changed? 35:44.944 --> 35:48.111 What would make a new policy different 35:49.003 --> 35:51.753 and more effective at this point? 35:56.431 --> 36:00.514 - I believe the policy that we revised is focused 36:01.077 --> 36:05.129 more on certain behaviors, such as the one we're here 36:05.129 --> 36:07.174 to discuss today on social media 36:07.174 --> 36:10.941 and to tell all Marines that these types of things 36:10.941 --> 36:13.940 are unacceptable, they are not part of being a Marine 36:13.940 --> 36:16.671 and they are also punishable under 36:16.671 --> 36:18.795 the Uniform Code of Military Justice. 36:18.795 --> 36:20.208 The previous policy said that, 36:20.208 --> 36:23.458 but it didn't say it quite as directly. 36:25.849 --> 36:28.606 But it's also gonna take leadership to go out 36:28.606 --> 36:32.273 and reinforce that, to not just hide behind, 36:32.938 --> 36:34.628 not hide, but to use a piece of paper, 36:34.628 --> 36:36.041 but they're gonna have to go out and sell it. 36:36.041 --> 36:37.353 They're gonna have to talk about it. 36:37.353 --> 36:39.533 Gonna have to make commanders and senior enlisted 36:39.533 --> 36:42.783 understand that this has got to change. 36:48.659 --> 36:49.659 Our Marines, 36:51.525 --> 36:53.358 they use social media. 36:54.695 --> 36:55.985 They use it for a lot of good things, 36:55.985 --> 36:58.375 as was mentioned by the Chairman. 36:58.375 --> 37:01.871 We use social media to tell the story of the Marines. 37:01.871 --> 37:03.204 And that's fine. 37:04.652 --> 37:06.542 But Marines have got to understand 37:06.542 --> 37:10.126 that using social media to degrade, denigrate, 37:10.126 --> 37:12.806 be disrespectful to another Marine is not just 37:12.806 --> 37:15.556 not who we are, but it's illegal. 37:15.602 --> 37:18.685 And that if you are found doing this, 37:20.529 --> 37:22.472 then you are potentially subject to 37:22.472 --> 37:25.076 the Uniform Code of Military Justice. 37:25.076 --> 37:26.868 (audio cuts out) 37:26.868 --> 37:29.618 - Educated on the current policy? 37:29.826 --> 37:31.750 - They are, but I don't believe, 37:31.750 --> 37:33.857 I can't tell you, Senator, that it was done with 37:33.857 --> 37:35.548 enough time or reinforcement. 37:35.548 --> 37:38.576 We talk about, we start talking to Marines 37:38.576 --> 37:40.531 about the values and ethos of being a Marine 37:40.531 --> 37:44.698 when they're still waiting to go to recruit training. 37:47.281 --> 37:49.721 Whether or not there are specific discussions 37:49.721 --> 37:52.554 about this type of thing, I'm not, 37:54.063 --> 37:56.728 I can't say to you that it's done within a manner 37:56.728 --> 37:58.860 that's satisfactory to me both in the 37:58.860 --> 38:01.356 quality of the discussion and the quantity. 38:01.356 --> 38:02.606 But it will be. 38:03.123 --> 38:06.520 - Have there been any punishments for Marines 38:06.520 --> 38:10.687 who have violated the current policy that you have? 38:15.160 --> 38:17.200 - Senator, I can't give you a specific quote 38:17.200 --> 38:21.367 that this individual did X and was found guilty at Y. 38:22.930 --> 38:26.383 I would ask to take that for the record and get back to you. 38:26.383 --> 38:27.734 I asked that question myself, 38:27.734 --> 38:31.817 but much of this type of behavior should be held, 38:33.601 --> 38:36.141 could be held accountable in a non-judicial punishment, 38:36.141 --> 38:38.012 which is an administrative action. 38:38.012 --> 38:42.179 And I don't have the data to give you that answer. 38:42.765 --> 38:46.174 - If I could add, we have been able to track individuals 38:46.174 --> 38:48.229 who have used government computers 38:48.229 --> 38:49.922 to access these types of websites 38:49.922 --> 38:52.064 and then we are able to identify the individual 38:52.064 --> 38:55.147 and clearly bring punishment to bear. 38:55.733 --> 38:57.422 - That was my next question. 38:57.422 --> 39:00.714 Were government computers used to access these websites 39:00.714 --> 39:03.047 or to post anything on them? 39:03.689 --> 39:06.297 - We have not been able to find any instance 39:06.297 --> 39:10.464 of government computers being used to access or post, 39:10.512 --> 39:14.262 but we are continuing with the investigation. 39:15.293 --> 39:17.458 - General, how well do we understand 39:17.458 --> 39:19.791 the membership of this group 39:20.582 --> 39:23.657 and how it breaks down between former Marines 39:23.657 --> 39:27.324 and active Marines and also retired Marines, 39:29.765 --> 39:33.598 do you have any information on that right now? 39:34.398 --> 39:36.113 - Senator, all I can tell you is we believe 39:36.113 --> 39:39.897 the numbers of individuals that belong to Marines United 39:39.897 --> 39:44.064 was about 30,000 on their public facing Facebook page. 39:46.160 --> 39:49.215 How many of them are active or former 39:49.215 --> 39:51.798 or other services or civilians, 39:53.380 --> 39:55.503 I don't have the answer to that. 39:55.503 --> 39:58.003 The NCIS is looking into that. 39:59.397 --> 40:02.275 The place where these individuals went 40:02.275 --> 40:05.530 to post these pictures and make their comments 40:05.530 --> 40:09.697 was a link to a server hosted by another internet provider, 40:10.566 --> 40:13.233 which has since been taken down. 40:13.287 --> 40:17.454 The numbers that we believe had access to this site 40:18.364 --> 40:21.281 was much, much smaller than 30,000. 40:24.378 --> 40:26.554 I can give you, ask for NCIS to give you 40:26.554 --> 40:28.822 that number in the closed session. 40:28.822 --> 40:31.655 - [Senator Fischer] OK, thank you. 40:32.858 --> 40:34.941 - Thank you Mr. Chairman. 40:38.374 --> 40:41.874 General Neller, the military, the Marines, 40:43.049 --> 40:46.133 have been aware of online victimization, 40:46.133 --> 40:50.133 online exploitation of other Marines since 2013, 40:52.401 --> 40:54.401 because there's a letter here from Jackie Speier 40:54.401 --> 40:57.634 to Chuck Hagel and General Amos with screen shots. 40:57.634 --> 40:59.756 So there's no mystery that this has been 40:59.756 --> 41:01.775 going on for a very long time. 41:01.775 --> 41:05.108 It was right in front of you and command 41:05.310 --> 41:08.060 to do something about since 2013. 41:08.245 --> 41:10.176 We have countless victims who have come forward 41:10.176 --> 41:12.338 and they're not just being harassed online. 41:12.338 --> 41:16.505 Once their name, face, where they're stationed is posted, 41:16.603 --> 41:18.933 do you think the harassment ends online? 41:18.933 --> 41:19.766 It doesn't. 41:19.766 --> 41:22.115 I spoke to a Marine yesterday, excuse me, 41:22.115 --> 41:24.269 I spoke to a civilian yesterday, 41:24.269 --> 41:27.147 who has been continued to be harassed in her community 41:27.147 --> 41:30.980 because her ex boyfriend exploited her online. 41:31.062 --> 41:34.145 So I have to say, when you say to us, 41:35.701 --> 41:39.353 "It's got to be different," that rings hollow. 41:39.353 --> 41:41.341 I don't know what you mean when you say that. 41:41.341 --> 41:42.691 Why does it have to be different? 41:42.691 --> 41:45.676 Because you all the sudden feel that it has to be different? 41:45.676 --> 41:47.467 Who has been held accountable? 41:47.467 --> 41:51.147 I very much align myself with Senator Fischer's comments, 41:51.147 --> 41:53.045 who has been held responsible? 41:53.045 --> 41:57.212 Have you actually investigated and found guilty anybody? 41:57.603 --> 42:00.338 If we can't crack Facebook, how are we supposed 42:00.338 --> 42:02.588 to be able to confront Russian aggression 42:02.588 --> 42:04.769 and cyber hacking throughout our military? 42:04.769 --> 42:08.936 It is a serious problem when we have members of our military 42:09.837 --> 42:12.037 denigrating female Marines who will 42:12.037 --> 42:14.620 give their life to this country 42:14.767 --> 42:17.868 the way they have with no response from leadership. 42:17.868 --> 42:22.035 I can tell you, your answers today are unsatisfactory. 42:22.416 --> 42:23.701 They do not go far enough. 42:23.701 --> 42:26.116 And I would like you to know what you intend to do 42:26.116 --> 42:28.813 to the commanders who are responsible 42:28.813 --> 42:30.140 for good order and discipline. 42:30.140 --> 42:33.887 All of this behavior is in violation of article 120 42:33.887 --> 42:36.304 and article 34, as so stated. 42:37.247 --> 42:40.342 They are violating the code of criminal justice. 42:40.342 --> 42:43.767 Why are commanders, who have asked for all responsibility 42:43.767 --> 42:45.837 to deal with sexual assault and these behaviors 42:45.837 --> 42:47.474 for the five years this committee 42:47.474 --> 42:49.285 has been focused on this issue, 42:49.285 --> 42:52.202 you have demanded that you maintain 42:52.317 --> 42:54.103 control of all these issues, 42:54.103 --> 42:56.415 but where's the accountability for failure? 42:56.415 --> 43:00.305 Who is being held accountable for doing nothing since 2013? 43:00.305 --> 43:02.055 Who, which commander? 43:03.319 --> 43:06.908 I am very concerned that this is part of a culture 43:06.908 --> 43:10.644 that is resulting in the high levels of sexual assault. 43:10.644 --> 43:13.644 We know from the FY 14 SAPRO report, 43:14.933 --> 43:18.290 60% of men and 58% of women who experience 43:18.290 --> 43:20.412 sexual harassment or gender discrimination 43:20.412 --> 43:23.134 in the previous year, throughout all the services, 43:23.134 --> 43:26.107 indicated that a supervisor or unit leader 43:26.107 --> 43:28.768 was one of the people engaged in the violations. 43:28.768 --> 43:31.685 That is a problem with our command. 43:32.244 --> 43:35.613 So if you're dedicated to fixing the culture of the Marines, 43:35.613 --> 43:38.223 and all the services, what do you plan to do 43:38.223 --> 43:42.390 to hold commanders responsible who fail to get this done? 43:50.364 --> 43:54.281 - Senator, I understand and share your concern. 43:56.479 --> 43:59.738 If I were aware or I would expect that any commander 43:59.738 --> 44:02.225 was aware of someone who's reported any allegation 44:02.225 --> 44:03.565 of anything, particularly something 44:03.565 --> 44:05.591 as serious as sexual assault 44:05.591 --> 44:07.258 and the chain of command didn't do anything, 44:07.258 --> 44:11.091 that that commander would be held accountable. 44:12.969 --> 44:16.636 I don't have any statistics for you on that. 44:17.994 --> 44:21.744 I can tell you that, of all those individuals 44:22.970 --> 44:25.360 who have come forward with allegations of sexual assault, 44:25.360 --> 44:28.360 what's happened to individuals that, 44:29.704 --> 44:33.612 where the charges ended up with some sort of process 44:33.612 --> 44:36.445 and ended up with an adjudication, 44:37.394 --> 44:39.281 but those are just numbers. 44:39.281 --> 44:41.687 As you clearly and rightfully state, 44:41.687 --> 44:44.604 this is a problem with our culture. 44:47.855 --> 44:49.623 And I'm still in the process, I mean, 44:49.623 --> 44:52.085 I don't have a good answer for you. 44:52.085 --> 44:54.408 I'm not going to sit here and duck around this thing. 44:54.408 --> 44:58.158 I'm not, I'm responsible, I'm the Commandant. 44:58.429 --> 45:01.846 I own this and we are going to have to... 45:04.168 --> 45:06.668 I know you've heard it before, 45:06.673 --> 45:10.721 but we're going to have to change how we see ourselves 45:10.721 --> 45:13.054 and how we treat each other. 45:16.121 --> 45:18.788 That's a lame answer, but ma'am, 45:20.316 --> 45:23.733 that's the best I can tell you right now. 45:26.549 --> 45:28.216 We've got to change. 45:28.819 --> 45:30.236 And that's on me. 45:32.539 --> 45:34.450 - [Gillibrand] My time has expired. 45:34.450 --> 45:36.617 - [McCain] Senator Cotton. 45:37.837 --> 45:40.212 - I was very disappointed and troubled to read 45:40.212 --> 45:44.276 this news recently, as were all members of this committee 45:44.276 --> 45:46.693 and most Americans, no doubt. 45:46.773 --> 45:49.582 I am reassured by the comments of General Neller 45:49.582 --> 45:51.514 and the Sargent Major this morning 45:51.514 --> 45:52.940 about how serious they take it 45:52.940 --> 45:56.357 and the gravity with which they treat it. 45:56.569 --> 46:00.206 General Neller, you mentioned that there are 30,000 members 46:00.206 --> 46:04.039 of this group, you don't have the breakdown of 46:06.139 --> 46:09.168 active versus reserve, versus retired, 46:09.168 --> 46:11.961 any indication yet of the breakdown between 46:11.961 --> 46:14.211 Marines, NCOs and officers? 46:18.545 --> 46:20.584 - Not in specific numbers, I think we're 46:20.584 --> 46:23.751 going to get that information Senator. 46:25.615 --> 46:27.587 I would, I'm not going to speculate on 46:27.587 --> 46:31.670 what the level of office involvement is or isn't, 46:33.397 --> 46:36.414 but I think the NCIS folks can tell you that. 46:36.414 --> 46:38.042 I don't know the number. 46:38.042 --> 46:41.625 I'd be speculating, I wouldn't say this is, 46:43.926 --> 46:47.352 it's highly unlikely this is just enlisted, 46:47.352 --> 46:49.769 but it doesn't really matter. 46:52.357 --> 46:56.357 You know, what these members, and I just remind, 46:56.389 --> 46:59.306 not to stick up for Marines United, 46:59.312 --> 47:01.979 but the great majority of people 47:02.946 --> 47:04.916 that were joined to this site, and there are other sites, 47:04.916 --> 47:07.833 I mean, we find sites all the time, 47:09.508 --> 47:12.852 we're looking out there and NCIS is looking 47:12.852 --> 47:15.440 and people are telling us about other sites, 47:15.440 --> 47:16.965 so Marines United is not alone 47:16.965 --> 47:20.298 in this despicable, disgusting behavior, 47:21.283 --> 47:24.896 but I think eventually we'll know the breakdown. 47:24.896 --> 47:26.963 Not just who was a member of Marines United, 47:26.963 --> 47:29.546 but who went to this other link 47:31.025 --> 47:33.858 and participated in this behavior. 47:35.661 --> 47:36.494 - Regrettably, I'm afraid-- 47:36.494 --> 47:37.992 - [Sean] Sir, if I could add-- 47:37.992 --> 47:39.659 - Yes, Mr. Stackley? 47:39.750 --> 47:43.917 - To date, we're dealing with cooperative information. 47:44.831 --> 47:47.012 In other words, we're trying to draw information, 47:47.012 --> 47:49.052 short of probable cause in which we can 47:49.052 --> 47:52.612 seize the information, we're gaining it cooperatively. 47:52.612 --> 47:55.030 NCIS has opened up a tip line. 47:55.030 --> 47:58.030 They have received, as of yesterday, 47:58.352 --> 48:01.434 53 calls on that tip line that's opening up 48:01.434 --> 48:05.587 other avenues to identify, to help to identify individuals, 48:05.587 --> 48:08.087 but also to identify these other sites 48:08.087 --> 48:10.601 that the Commandant had referred to. 48:10.601 --> 48:12.297 In my opening statement I called this a bell ringer, 48:12.297 --> 48:15.073 this is a bell ringer, we're not going to go back. 48:15.073 --> 48:19.073 We need to dive, plumb the depths of this issue, 48:19.189 --> 48:21.195 to understand how far, how wide it is 48:21.195 --> 48:24.273 and then working up and down the chain of command, 48:24.273 --> 48:26.144 whether you call it culture, whether you call it 48:26.144 --> 48:28.133 good order and discipline, get every, 48:28.133 --> 48:30.267 not just every Marine, every man and woman in uniform 48:30.267 --> 48:32.162 to understand what our standards are, 48:32.162 --> 48:35.545 what is and is not acceptable on one hand 48:35.545 --> 48:38.438 and on the other hand, prosecute these other avenues 48:38.438 --> 48:40.046 where this behavior is taking place 48:40.046 --> 48:41.589 to the extent of our ability. 48:41.589 --> 48:44.256 We're not going to go backwards. 48:44.630 --> 48:47.989 - We have spoken at this hearing, this morning, 48:47.989 --> 48:50.064 quite a bit so far about law and policy 48:50.064 --> 48:51.820 and those are important questions. 48:51.820 --> 48:54.837 I want to speak, just a matter about the expectations 48:54.837 --> 48:59.004 we have for the young men and women we have in uniform, 49:00.419 --> 49:02.787 putting aside law and policy. 49:02.787 --> 49:04.634 Back when I was a Company Grade Officer 49:04.634 --> 49:07.853 and we had to do safety briefs every Friday afternoon, 49:07.853 --> 49:10.313 to ensure that if our soldiers misbehaved on the weekend, 49:10.313 --> 49:11.503 we could tell our chain of command 49:11.503 --> 49:13.818 that we had ordered them not to do so, 49:13.818 --> 49:15.339 rather than get into every single detail 49:15.339 --> 49:18.092 that soldiers might do over the weekend, 49:18.092 --> 49:21.305 I would simply say, obey your general orders and the law 49:21.305 --> 49:25.031 and be a good solider, a good citizen and a good man. 49:25.031 --> 49:27.284 I assume that your company-grade officers 49:27.284 --> 49:30.754 and company-grade NCOs do something similar 49:30.754 --> 49:33.171 on weekends or before passes. 49:33.461 --> 49:36.550 Putting aside the requirements of law and policy, 49:36.550 --> 49:38.664 General Neller, do you believe every Marine 49:38.664 --> 49:41.056 should know that this kind of conduct 49:41.056 --> 49:44.973 violates the spirit and the ethic of the Corps? 49:48.953 --> 49:53.120 - Senator, you would think after all the discussion 49:54.319 --> 49:57.395 and all the training and the things that we've done 49:57.395 --> 49:59.752 that people would understand that this type 49:59.752 --> 50:01.240 of behavior is unacceptable. 50:01.240 --> 50:05.323 But apparently whatever we've done or tried to do 50:06.051 --> 50:09.301 has not worked or we haven't been clear 50:09.642 --> 50:13.725 or people think that they can go on social media, 50:13.726 --> 50:16.893 with some persona or avatar character, 50:17.369 --> 50:19.455 but as Senator Gillibrand rightfully stated, 50:19.455 --> 50:23.622 I mean, some people use their full name and their unit. 50:27.915 --> 50:30.332 And because they participate, 50:33.283 --> 50:37.450 the frustration is what is a crime and what is not 50:39.083 --> 50:42.250 as opposed to boarish, stupid behavior 50:43.619 --> 50:45.328 and this is beyond that. 50:45.328 --> 50:49.495 So that's where we are in working through that right now. 50:51.130 --> 50:55.095 I believe yes, even if they don't, they should now. 50:55.095 --> 50:56.508 And command or myself, 50:56.508 --> 50:57.919 I'm going down to Camp Lejeune tomorrow, 50:57.919 --> 50:59.502 I'm going to talk to people and make sure they, 50:59.502 --> 51:03.669 try to make this as crystal clear as I possibly can. 51:04.443 --> 51:06.314 - Sargent Major, if I could just ask you one question-- 51:06.314 --> 51:07.810 - [McCain] Your time has expired, 51:07.810 --> 51:10.143 Senator Blumenthal? - Sorry. 51:11.258 --> 51:13.091 - Thanks Mr. Chairman. 51:15.443 --> 51:18.610 You used the words, Commandant Neller, 51:19.761 --> 51:22.197 despicable and disgusting, that certainly is the feeling 51:22.197 --> 51:25.947 that everybody on this panel shares with you. 51:27.737 --> 51:31.904 And I think also many of us share the passion and impatience 51:32.479 --> 51:36.562 that Senator Gillibrand expressed very powerfully 51:37.320 --> 51:40.695 because there have been instances in the past, 51:40.695 --> 51:43.778 and your acknowledgement that perhaps 51:46.816 --> 51:50.983 the past violations of trust and law have not been addressed 51:52.808 --> 51:56.748 sufficiently aggressively may give us some comfort here, 51:56.748 --> 51:59.979 but I think we're all going to watch closely 51:59.979 --> 52:03.229 and demand from you, not just the words 52:04.188 --> 52:06.670 that you've given us, which we trust, 52:06.670 --> 52:10.670 but also action, which speaks louder than words. 52:14.572 --> 52:17.905 Do you know personally of any commanders 52:18.328 --> 52:20.828 who had knowledge of this site 52:23.598 --> 52:25.598 before it was disclosed? 52:29.487 --> 52:32.040 - [Neller] No senator, I don't. 52:32.040 --> 52:35.016 - And do you believe that the same kind of 52:35.016 --> 52:38.516 aggressive discipline should be focused on 52:39.000 --> 52:43.167 the chain of command as well as on the perpetrators 52:43.292 --> 52:46.875 who were involved in the immediate conduct? 52:47.723 --> 52:49.228 If they had knowledge. 52:49.228 --> 52:50.061 - I do. 52:50.517 --> 52:52.309 - And will you assure us that you 52:52.309 --> 52:55.726 will take aggressive action against them? 52:56.788 --> 52:58.121 - [Neller] I do. 52:58.807 --> 53:02.028 - You mentioned earlier that you thought 53:02.028 --> 53:05.695 that non-judicial punishment was appropriate 53:07.243 --> 53:10.743 for the Marines who may have been involved 53:11.211 --> 53:13.294 or at least many of them. 53:15.579 --> 53:18.542 Would you agree that the Uniform Code of Military Justice 53:18.542 --> 53:20.209 should be applied as 53:22.430 --> 53:24.477 aggressively as possible in these instances 53:24.477 --> 53:27.535 and that violations should be prosecuted to the full extent 53:27.535 --> 53:30.702 of the penalties that can be achieved? 53:31.798 --> 53:33.278 - Let me clarify my comment. 53:33.278 --> 53:37.445 When I said non-judicial punishment has applicability, 53:37.649 --> 53:41.057 it does, but you know, whether that is the level 53:41.057 --> 53:44.557 at which these allegations are adjudicated 53:46.994 --> 53:49.494 is up to the chain of command. 53:50.477 --> 53:51.878 All I was trying to imply was that 53:51.878 --> 53:54.860 that is a tool available to commanders. 53:54.860 --> 53:57.277 If the act is more egregious, 53:58.175 --> 54:00.925 then there would be other venues, 54:03.104 --> 54:06.043 more serious venues available to commanders. 54:06.043 --> 54:09.626 - Would you agree that the chain of command 54:13.765 --> 54:15.098 may be unable to 54:18.180 --> 54:20.125 prosecute as aggressively as possible 54:20.125 --> 54:23.149 if, in fact, there are allegations within the 54:23.149 --> 54:26.649 chain of command that ought to be pursued? 54:34.072 --> 54:37.193 - I don't think that should make a difference. 54:37.193 --> 54:39.302 I mean, it might cause a commander if 54:39.302 --> 54:43.378 some of their subordinates was complicit in this, you know, 54:43.378 --> 54:47.481 but a violation's a violation, we're all accountable. 54:47.481 --> 54:48.863 - But that might make it more difficult 54:48.863 --> 54:53.030 for someone to take action against a fellow Marine 54:54.521 --> 54:57.028 who was within the chain of command. 54:57.028 --> 55:00.460 Would there be some process, even now, under existing law, 55:00.460 --> 55:03.377 we've sought to reform or change it 55:04.224 --> 55:07.724 to make sure that there is accountability. 55:09.750 --> 55:12.180 - We select our commanders based on their skill 55:12.180 --> 55:16.263 and their ability and their potential to command. 55:16.519 --> 55:18.516 They have got to make the hard decisions 55:18.516 --> 55:22.433 and so if that involves, and we've all done it, 55:23.470 --> 55:25.957 if that involves disciplining somebody 55:25.957 --> 55:28.397 that is in your own chain of command 55:28.397 --> 55:31.897 or that you know, then that's what you do. 55:32.547 --> 55:36.714 - And to articles of the Uniform Code of Military Justice 55:37.184 --> 55:41.298 (audio cuts out) mentioned, 120 and 134. 55:41.298 --> 55:45.131 Neither specifically prohibits cyber bullying. 55:46.107 --> 55:48.700 My thought has been that perhaps there ought to be 55:48.700 --> 55:51.374 a specific provision that is applicable 55:51.374 --> 55:55.138 to the conduct involved here, which in effect, 55:55.138 --> 55:56.878 is a form of cyber bullying, 55:56.878 --> 55:59.795 would you support such a provision? 56:02.830 --> 56:06.997 - We've had discussions about whether or not the UCMJ 56:09.223 --> 56:11.794 has the ability to address this. 56:11.794 --> 56:15.711 To me, we've stated what behavior in cyberspace 56:16.071 --> 56:18.498 is acceptable and not acceptable. 56:18.498 --> 56:21.360 To me, that is the weight of article 92, 56:21.360 --> 56:23.443 disobedience of an order. 56:24.119 --> 56:26.619 So 120C addresses specifically 56:29.248 --> 56:30.558 taking someone's picture without 56:30.558 --> 56:32.555 their permission and using it 56:32.555 --> 56:35.282 and 134 would address good order and discipline 56:35.282 --> 56:39.449 and those things, so I believe the tools are there. 56:40.218 --> 56:42.437 If that's the level of punishment 56:42.437 --> 56:46.187 or administrative action you wanted to go to, 56:46.433 --> 56:48.600 if the facts support that. 56:49.248 --> 56:52.272 I think there may be some discussion about, 56:52.272 --> 56:54.677 I think that's something that we're going to get in to, 56:54.677 --> 56:58.844 with this task force, whether there are provisions 57:00.325 --> 57:04.374 within the UCMJ that may need to be more specific 57:04.374 --> 57:08.374 about this particular type of potential offense, 57:09.676 --> 57:11.676 because this is not new, 57:14.818 --> 57:17.401 but there's gotta be some tools 57:17.486 --> 57:20.211 for commanders to be able to address this specifically. 57:20.211 --> 57:23.157 - Senator, if I could add, on cyber bullying, 57:23.157 --> 57:27.324 we hypothetically, are talking about ways we could prosecute 57:27.950 --> 57:31.305 it through the UCMJ, but it hasn't been tested yet. 57:31.305 --> 57:33.625 And so your question, regarding is there value 57:33.625 --> 57:35.746 in getting into greater detail, specifics, 57:35.746 --> 57:37.406 within a specific article, 57:37.406 --> 57:40.175 I think the task force wish to comment on (audio cuts out). 57:40.175 --> 57:42.503 I think that's central to one of the areas 57:42.503 --> 57:43.963 that they are, in fact, looking at. 57:43.963 --> 57:45.282 We need to keep it on the plate 57:45.282 --> 57:46.603 and we need to come back to you 57:46.603 --> 57:48.782 with specific recommendations. 57:48.782 --> 57:49.654 - [McCain] Senator Ernst. 57:49.654 --> 57:51.173 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 57:51.173 --> 57:53.206 Those who participated in these disgusting 57:53.206 --> 57:57.373 and horrible actions have not only failed our Marine Corps, 57:58.792 --> 58:02.496 they've failed men and women who wish to join your ranks, 58:02.496 --> 58:05.246 and they have failed our country. 58:06.283 --> 58:08.137 I'm not as eloquent as some of 58:08.137 --> 58:10.312 the other members on this panel, 58:10.312 --> 58:14.479 all I can do is express to you how disappointed I am. 58:15.024 --> 58:16.857 I'm very disappointed. 58:17.109 --> 58:19.449 General Neller, I hope that you can convey the concerns 58:19.449 --> 58:21.659 you've delivered to this committee today 58:21.659 --> 58:23.742 directly to your Marines. 58:24.695 --> 58:27.616 Not through a press conference, not through your designees, 58:27.616 --> 58:31.783 but directly to as many Marines as you possibly can. 58:32.627 --> 58:34.533 Implementing change to this type of behavior 58:34.533 --> 58:38.700 begins at the ground level and you are a leader, sir. 58:39.323 --> 58:41.782 As reports continue to come in across the DoD, 58:41.782 --> 58:45.615 it's clear that this seems to be service wide. 58:46.396 --> 58:48.579 This is service wide, and so we need a 58:48.579 --> 58:51.861 service wide approach to addressing this issue. 58:51.861 --> 58:53.937 This is a cultural problem, 58:53.937 --> 58:57.672 not just in our military, but society at large. 58:57.672 --> 59:00.589 And hearing that many individuals were not surprised 59:00.589 --> 59:03.506 about these reports disappoints me. 59:03.940 --> 59:05.516 Hearing that there may not be a way 59:05.516 --> 59:07.451 to hold many of the people that were 59:07.451 --> 59:11.201 involved in this accountable, that angers me. 59:11.705 --> 59:15.038 Illegal or not, members of our community 59:15.216 --> 59:16.915 need to know this type of activity 59:16.915 --> 59:20.832 creates a culture that leads to sexual assault. 59:21.392 --> 59:24.503 Those that sat complacently by as this unfolded, 59:24.503 --> 59:27.086 from the NCOs, to the officers, 59:27.911 --> 59:30.828 are all contributing to this issue. 59:31.180 --> 59:34.911 There is no excuse and you have stated that General Neller, 59:34.911 --> 59:36.402 I appreciate that greatly, 59:36.402 --> 59:39.652 there is absolutely no excuse for this. 59:39.814 --> 59:42.785 Especially for those who wear our nation's uniform. 59:42.785 --> 59:45.845 The steps that you now take moving forward, 59:45.845 --> 59:47.207 following this event will define 59:47.207 --> 59:49.957 each of us before this committee. 59:51.073 --> 59:53.529 Regardless of what legal or administrative action 59:53.529 --> 59:57.449 you are able to take, I hope this leads to you personally 59:57.449 --> 01:00:00.202 sitting down, and you Sargent Major, as well, 01:00:00.202 --> 01:00:03.452 sitting down and educating our Marines. 01:00:05.560 --> 01:00:07.367 A social media handbook has been discussed 01:00:07.367 --> 01:00:10.617 by a number of folks here on the panel, 01:00:10.646 --> 01:00:13.027 but how many Marines actually read that? 01:00:13.027 --> 01:00:15.312 How many sit down and read it? 01:00:15.312 --> 01:00:19.062 It is up to all of us to educate our Marines. 01:00:19.584 --> 01:00:21.732 The Marine Corps has a high turnover rate, 01:00:21.732 --> 01:00:25.431 we have thousands of Marines coming through every year. 01:00:25.431 --> 01:00:27.378 And we have to make all of them 01:00:27.378 --> 01:00:29.795 aware of what they represent. 01:00:30.187 --> 01:00:31.718 They need to know that the actions they take 01:00:31.718 --> 01:00:35.885 here at home and online can take away from the success 01:00:36.021 --> 01:00:39.688 of their brothers and their sisters in arms. 01:00:40.372 --> 01:00:44.539 This is an absolute issue that impacts our entire society, 01:00:45.068 --> 01:00:47.748 it's an absolutely horrible issue impacting us, 01:00:47.748 --> 01:00:50.935 but it's one that we must stop, and I say we. 01:00:50.935 --> 01:00:52.456 It's not just the Marine Corps, 01:00:52.456 --> 01:00:55.545 it's those of us that are sitting here today. 01:00:55.545 --> 01:00:58.923 We will be evaluating how to give you the right tools, 01:00:58.923 --> 01:01:02.256 the necessary tools to combat this issue 01:01:02.648 --> 01:01:05.848 and absolutely, you must hold those Marines accountable. 01:01:05.848 --> 01:01:07.489 In the meantime, I hope that you will continue 01:01:07.489 --> 01:01:11.244 to evaluate what we need to do to combat this issue, 01:01:11.244 --> 01:01:14.311 not just in the Marine Corps, but service wide 01:01:14.311 --> 01:01:18.361 and what we need to do to impact society at large. 01:01:18.361 --> 01:01:19.408 Thank you Mr. Chair. 01:01:19.408 --> 01:01:21.741 - [McCain] Senator Donnelly. 01:01:22.157 --> 01:01:24.240 - Thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:01:24.754 --> 01:01:28.921 The Marines who did this have betrayed their fellow Marines 01:01:30.875 --> 01:01:34.148 and these women Marines stood up and said they would 01:01:34.148 --> 01:01:36.294 put their lives on the line for this country 01:01:36.294 --> 01:01:38.711 and give them up if necessary 01:01:38.766 --> 01:01:41.649 and this is the treatment they got in return. 01:01:41.649 --> 01:01:44.393 But they also betrayed those Marines who fought 01:01:44.393 --> 01:01:47.643 in Anbar Province, in Helmand Province, 01:01:48.203 --> 01:01:51.540 in the Gulf, in Vietnam, in Korea, in Guadalcanal, 01:01:51.540 --> 01:01:53.957 Iwo Jima, who built the Corps 01:01:58.263 --> 01:02:00.513 inch by inch, step by step. 01:02:01.943 --> 01:02:03.944 And these Marines who have done this 01:02:03.944 --> 01:02:07.194 have disgraced themselves but they also 01:02:07.640 --> 01:02:11.723 let down the Corps and all of those other Marines 01:02:13.811 --> 01:02:17.978 who fought for our country and helped create the Corps. 01:02:19.820 --> 01:02:22.153 I went online and found that 01:02:22.646 --> 01:02:25.646 there's already a Marines United 2.0 01:02:28.157 --> 01:02:31.157 posting links to the same materials. 01:02:32.525 --> 01:02:35.525 That already has over 3,000 members. 01:02:37.209 --> 01:02:39.542 What can be done about this? 01:02:39.989 --> 01:02:41.906 And what does that say? 01:02:44.692 --> 01:02:45.525 General? 01:02:48.502 --> 01:02:51.597 - Sir, if the Marines United 2.0 is there 01:02:51.597 --> 01:02:55.764 for their original mandate to help veterans, that's fine. 01:02:57.959 --> 01:03:01.042 If there is a link that takes anybody 01:03:01.792 --> 01:03:04.792 who can get access to a similar page 01:03:05.102 --> 01:03:08.213 where there are posted pictures of anybody, 01:03:08.213 --> 01:03:10.384 but more likely female Marines 01:03:10.384 --> 01:03:12.815 and where they're making commentary, 01:03:12.815 --> 01:03:14.711 we will go like we did before 01:03:14.711 --> 01:03:18.461 and we will ask the provider to take it down. 01:03:18.516 --> 01:03:21.819 But that's where we find ourselves and again, 01:03:21.819 --> 01:03:23.985 that's where we find ourselves. 01:03:23.985 --> 01:03:25.691 Now, whether we can get the information 01:03:25.691 --> 01:03:28.608 or make them pull that data for us, 01:03:30.699 --> 01:03:34.250 we've recently, in this investigation with Marines United, 01:03:34.250 --> 01:03:37.583 NCIS recently got some more information, 01:03:38.444 --> 01:03:40.368 so that should allow us to get to that, 01:03:40.368 --> 01:03:44.535 but again, you know, we're addressing the symptom here. 01:03:45.500 --> 01:03:48.128 The problem is that anybody would 01:03:48.128 --> 01:03:50.958 even want to do this in the first place. 01:03:50.958 --> 01:03:54.708 I mean, that's the part, and I get beyond my, 01:03:54.713 --> 01:03:55.968 this doesn't make any sense to me, 01:03:55.968 --> 01:03:58.135 OK, they're doing it, why? 01:03:58.687 --> 01:04:01.347 What is it that makes anyone feel 01:04:01.347 --> 01:04:04.657 that they're gonna make themselves feel better 01:04:04.657 --> 01:04:06.670 by being degrading about any individual, 01:04:06.670 --> 01:04:10.082 whether it be based on their gender or their race 01:04:10.082 --> 01:04:14.249 or their sexual preference, if they are indeed a Marine, 01:04:15.069 --> 01:04:17.569 or anybody, it doesn't matter, 01:04:18.326 --> 01:04:20.867 that's not who we are and what we do. 01:04:20.867 --> 01:04:24.034 So our folks now, and with NCISs help, 01:04:25.072 --> 01:04:26.999 we're out there looking, we're finding other sites 01:04:26.999 --> 01:04:28.836 and we go through the legal process 01:04:28.836 --> 01:04:33.003 and go to the provider and ask them to take it down. 01:04:34.938 --> 01:04:37.036 I think NCIS can give you more information 01:04:37.036 --> 01:04:38.699 in the closed session about, 01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:40.383 because there are other sites out there. 01:04:40.383 --> 01:04:44.133 I mean, this is not, Marines 2.0 is just one. 01:04:48.122 --> 01:04:49.690 And again, some of them are legit, 01:04:49.690 --> 01:04:51.618 they do good and proper things 01:04:51.618 --> 01:04:53.789 for veterans or anybody that belongs. 01:04:53.789 --> 01:04:56.456 Others, not so much, not at all. 01:04:57.628 --> 01:04:59.961 - [McCain] Senator Sullivan. 01:04:59.988 --> 01:05:01.971 - [Donnelly] I would suggest General, 01:05:01.971 --> 01:05:04.971 that they're also disrespecting you. 01:05:06.071 --> 01:05:07.159 They're saying that-- 01:05:07.159 --> 01:05:08.626 - [McCain] The gentleman's time has expired. 01:05:08.626 --> 01:05:09.539 Senator Sullivan. 01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:10.372 - Oh. 01:05:11.791 --> 01:05:12.824 - Mr. Chairmen, I believe he had 01:05:12.824 --> 01:05:15.241 a minute and 23 seconds left. 01:05:19.085 --> 01:05:20.805 - [McCain] Please proceed. 01:05:20.805 --> 01:05:22.534 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 01:05:22.534 --> 01:05:24.976 What I wanted to say is they're basically 01:05:24.976 --> 01:05:27.059 challenging you, General. 01:05:27.527 --> 01:05:30.887 They're thinking that they can get away with this. 01:05:30.887 --> 01:05:34.054 And you're the Commandant of the Corps 01:05:35.336 --> 01:05:37.503 and I think it's up to you 01:05:39.919 --> 01:05:42.060 and I trust and believe you will 01:05:42.060 --> 01:05:43.977 tell them and show them 01:05:45.162 --> 01:05:48.067 that they are not bigger than the Corps. 01:05:48.067 --> 01:05:52.234 That they cannot treat their fellow Marines like this. 01:05:56.449 --> 01:06:00.116 What do we say and how can the women Marines 01:06:01.592 --> 01:06:04.509 feel that the Corps has their back? 01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:06.782 I think that's a... 01:06:07.445 --> 01:06:10.230 When a young woman makes a decision that, 01:06:10.230 --> 01:06:12.400 number one, she wants to serve the country 01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:15.400 and put her life on the line for us, 01:06:16.365 --> 01:06:19.032 why will she choose the Marines? 01:06:19.264 --> 01:06:23.431 How do we reinstate that trust that we have her back? 01:06:27.406 --> 01:06:31.573 - The only way we can Senator, is through our actions. 01:06:32.761 --> 01:06:34.575 That anyone who sticks their hand up 01:06:34.575 --> 01:06:37.586 to support and defend the Constitution of the United States 01:06:37.586 --> 01:06:40.826 and has the willingness to earn the title Marine, 01:06:40.826 --> 01:06:43.481 is going to be a full fledged member of the team. 01:06:43.481 --> 01:06:47.648 Like the two female Marines sitting behind me here, 01:06:50.480 --> 01:06:54.385 we've got to make them believe, we've got to earn, 01:06:54.385 --> 01:06:55.812 they don't have to just earn the title Marines, 01:06:55.812 --> 01:06:58.500 we've got to earn their belief that they're going to 01:06:58.500 --> 01:07:00.959 get the same opportunity as anybody else 01:07:00.959 --> 01:07:04.792 to compete and be the best person they can be. 01:07:06.299 --> 01:07:08.716 So I can sit here and say it, 01:07:10.537 --> 01:07:14.537 we've got to re-earn the trust not just of them, 01:07:15.268 --> 01:07:19.435 this committee and the American people, I understand that. 01:07:19.873 --> 01:07:21.296 - [Donnelly] Thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:07:21.296 --> 01:07:22.225 - [McCain] My apologies, 01:07:22.225 --> 01:07:24.006 Senator Donnelly for cutting you off. 01:07:24.006 --> 01:07:25.350 - [Donnelly] No worries sir. 01:07:25.350 --> 01:07:27.683 - [McCain] Senator Sullivan. 01:07:27.866 --> 01:07:31.186 - Thank you Mr. Chairman and I want to begin by 01:07:31.186 --> 01:07:35.113 thanking Senator Gillibrand for her calling for this hearing 01:07:35.113 --> 01:07:39.280 and her unfailing advocacy for women in the military. 01:07:41.456 --> 01:07:44.548 Like you General, I'm a father of three daughters 01:07:44.548 --> 01:07:48.048 and also spent a lot of my civilian career 01:07:48.476 --> 01:07:52.470 focused on combating the problem Senator Ernst mentioned 01:07:52.470 --> 01:07:54.183 is a problem not only in the military, 01:07:54.183 --> 01:07:55.114 but across the country, 01:07:55.114 --> 01:07:58.197 domestic violence and sexual assault. 01:07:58.540 --> 01:08:02.373 And I think Senator Gillibrand's focus on this 01:08:02.545 --> 01:08:05.712 benefits the military and the country. 01:08:05.773 --> 01:08:08.275 I also appreciate your and Sargent Major's opening statement 01:08:08.275 --> 01:08:12.442 to say you're going to take responsibility for this. 01:08:12.607 --> 01:08:15.156 I think like everybody on this committee, 01:08:15.156 --> 01:08:17.653 General, when I first read the news about the Marines 01:08:17.653 --> 01:08:19.972 attacking and degrading other Marines, 01:08:19.972 --> 01:08:23.238 it's what Senator Donnelly just mentioned, 01:08:23.238 --> 01:08:27.405 I was outraged, disgusted, embarrassed as a citizen, 01:08:28.991 --> 01:08:31.491 as a lawmaker and as a Marine. 01:08:34.038 --> 01:08:37.151 And I'm here, in this capacity as a US Senator, 01:08:37.151 --> 01:08:39.139 but earning the title of a Marine 01:08:39.139 --> 01:08:41.538 is the proudest personal achievement of my life, 01:08:41.538 --> 01:08:44.205 always has been, always will be. 01:08:46.293 --> 01:08:47.631 You know, we talk about that there's been 01:08:47.631 --> 01:08:50.502 no more formidable fighting force in the world, 01:08:50.502 --> 01:08:51.635 but the Marine Corps, in my view, 01:08:51.635 --> 01:08:53.885 goes much deeper than that. 01:08:54.214 --> 01:08:58.087 I mentioned a story last year, I was walking down the street 01:08:58.087 --> 01:09:00.656 on Capitol Hill, there was a mom and two young kids, 01:09:00.656 --> 01:09:02.930 a boy and a girl walking by me 01:09:02.930 --> 01:09:06.943 and a group of 8th & I Marines in PT gear coming up. 01:09:06.943 --> 01:09:08.526 Strong, formidable, 01:09:11.782 --> 01:09:13.165 and they passed this family 01:09:13.165 --> 01:09:14.885 and this mom looked at her kids and said, 01:09:14.885 --> 01:09:16.384 "Those are Marines, they're courageous, 01:09:16.384 --> 01:09:18.083 "they're fearless, and they'll do anything 01:09:18.083 --> 01:09:21.356 "to protect our country and keep us safe." 01:09:21.356 --> 01:09:25.523 That's what mothers in the country are telling their kids. 01:09:25.765 --> 01:09:28.598 So this goes way deeper than this. 01:09:30.756 --> 01:09:32.668 I believe that if Marine Corps can't prevent Marines 01:09:32.668 --> 01:09:34.881 from attacking and degrading women Marines, 01:09:34.881 --> 01:09:37.050 the Marine Corps' going to lose what it means 01:09:37.050 --> 01:09:41.217 to the country, to the Marine Corps, to other Marines. 01:09:42.522 --> 01:09:44.362 So General, you talked a lot about 01:09:44.362 --> 01:09:48.529 a perversion of the culture, what do you mean by that? 01:09:54.336 --> 01:09:56.503 - Well, Senator, like you, 01:09:59.363 --> 01:10:03.016 I believe all Marines have a belief that our motto, 01:10:03.016 --> 01:10:04.972 semper fidelis, our core values of honor, 01:10:04.972 --> 01:10:07.928 courage and commitment are what we are. 01:10:07.928 --> 01:10:11.511 And that everything that we've seen in this 01:10:12.049 --> 01:10:14.382 Marines United event is not. 01:10:17.353 --> 01:10:19.757 And so anybody that's out there involved in this 01:10:19.757 --> 01:10:21.309 or any other site or doing this, 01:10:21.309 --> 01:10:25.392 and this is, as it's been accurately pointed out, 01:10:25.554 --> 01:10:29.721 this is something that's been out there for some time, 01:10:33.134 --> 01:10:36.967 I don't know how they think they can reconcile 01:10:37.712 --> 01:10:39.795 being a Marine with this. 01:10:41.802 --> 01:10:43.969 It just doesn't, I don't mentally 01:10:43.969 --> 01:10:46.178 see how you get from A to B. 01:10:46.178 --> 01:10:47.543 - One of the things about the Marine Corps 01:10:47.543 --> 01:10:49.123 and all military services, 01:10:49.123 --> 01:10:50.087 but particularly in the Marine Corps, 01:10:50.087 --> 01:10:53.666 there's a culture and it's part of what we do, 01:10:53.666 --> 01:10:57.131 is we bring violence to the enemies of our nation. 01:10:57.131 --> 01:10:58.408 And we're good at bringing violence 01:10:58.408 --> 01:11:00.991 upon the enemies of our nation. 01:11:01.077 --> 01:11:02.877 Is it the perversion of the culture, 01:11:02.877 --> 01:11:04.597 where the Marines are actually bringing 01:11:04.597 --> 01:11:06.930 violence upon women Marines? 01:11:08.363 --> 01:11:10.518 Is that the perversion of the culture, 01:11:10.518 --> 01:11:13.035 which every Marine who's honorable thinks 01:11:13.035 --> 01:11:15.285 is a disgusting perversion? 01:11:17.999 --> 01:11:20.101 - I would believe that's, I believe that's a 01:11:20.101 --> 01:11:23.536 very accurate description, Senator, thank you for that. 01:11:23.536 --> 01:11:25.277 - Sargent Major, can I ask you a question, 01:11:25.277 --> 01:11:28.277 you both have talked about boot camp 01:11:28.434 --> 01:11:30.526 and getting at this early. 01:11:30.526 --> 01:11:32.946 One of the things, as you know at the Marine Corps 01:11:32.946 --> 01:11:36.363 does very well in boot camp is it focuses 01:11:36.553 --> 01:11:38.972 on the history of the Marine Corps. 01:11:38.972 --> 01:11:40.850 You walk out of boot camp, if you can make it, 01:11:40.850 --> 01:11:44.491 after three months and you know about Chosin Reservoir, 01:11:44.491 --> 01:11:48.078 you know about Iwo Jima, you know about all those things 01:11:48.078 --> 01:11:50.161 and you take pride in it. 01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:52.323 General, I thought you opening statement 01:11:52.323 --> 01:11:55.240 about referencing five Marine women 01:11:56.128 --> 01:12:00.128 who were killed in action, defending our nation, 01:12:00.504 --> 01:12:04.087 do you think Sargent Major that focusing on 01:12:05.044 --> 01:12:07.996 some of those issues, with regard to our history, 01:12:07.996 --> 01:12:11.413 in boot camp can start to set the culture 01:12:12.098 --> 01:12:14.638 on a more proper course, to recognize that, 01:12:14.638 --> 01:12:18.221 hey, look at these, they're Marines, right? 01:12:18.297 --> 01:12:19.587 Doesn't matter if they're men or women, 01:12:19.587 --> 01:12:20.987 they fight for their country. 01:12:20.987 --> 01:12:22.961 Could we do a better job of instilling that 01:12:22.961 --> 01:12:25.710 at the outset as we shape the outlook 01:12:25.710 --> 01:12:29.877 and minds and culture of these 18 and 20 year old kids? 01:12:30.648 --> 01:12:32.000 - Absolutely, sir. 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:35.238 The task force that the Commandant's put together, 01:12:35.238 --> 01:12:37.477 led by the Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps, 01:12:37.477 --> 01:12:39.227 we met a few days ago 01:12:39.285 --> 01:12:41.656 and that's exactly where we're starting. 01:12:41.656 --> 01:12:43.359 We're going beyond that and starting 01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:45.776 at the delayed entry program. 01:12:46.793 --> 01:12:48.618 We're looking at everything we teach Marines. 01:12:48.618 --> 01:12:51.244 And we have to understand ourselves, 01:12:51.244 --> 01:12:54.744 in a four year enlistment, 120,000 Marines 01:12:55.375 --> 01:12:57.418 would have gone in and out of the Marine Corps. 01:12:57.418 --> 01:12:58.251 120,000. 01:12:59.874 --> 01:13:01.013 We would have turned over two thirds 01:13:01.013 --> 01:13:03.974 of the Marine Corps in a four year period. 01:13:03.974 --> 01:13:08.141 And we need to step back after 15, 16 years of fighting 01:13:08.235 --> 01:13:09.916 and we're still in that fight, 01:13:09.916 --> 01:13:14.083 and absolutely take a look at not only how we make Marines, 01:13:15.694 --> 01:13:17.623 from those who walk through the door 01:13:17.623 --> 01:13:19.506 and want to be something better than themselves, 01:13:19.506 --> 01:13:22.368 but also how we retain Marines and families 01:13:22.368 --> 01:13:26.081 with our ethos of honor, courage and commitment. 01:13:26.081 --> 01:13:28.349 We're gonna seriously take a look at that, 01:13:28.349 --> 01:13:32.016 because the processes that worked yesterday, 01:13:32.353 --> 01:13:34.087 they're not working today. 01:13:34.087 --> 01:13:36.529 Because there are other societal 01:13:36.529 --> 01:13:38.522 ills that come through the door 01:13:38.522 --> 01:13:40.828 with every individual that comes in, 01:13:40.828 --> 01:13:44.408 that the tools that we have are not being as effective 01:13:44.408 --> 01:13:46.162 as they need to be today. 01:13:46.162 --> 01:13:49.131 So we're gonna take a look at, from the recruiting 01:13:49.131 --> 01:13:51.757 of our Marines until the time they leave the gates, 01:13:51.757 --> 01:13:55.924 and also beyond that, ask the veteran support organizations 01:13:56.109 --> 01:13:58.890 out there to take a look at our motto 01:13:58.890 --> 01:14:01.218 once a Marine, always a Marine 01:14:01.218 --> 01:14:03.697 and every Marine who leaves out the door, 01:14:03.697 --> 01:14:05.525 telling them they're responsible 01:14:05.525 --> 01:14:07.167 for that eagle, globe and anchor. 01:14:07.167 --> 01:14:09.396 There are some bad actors that have worn the eagle, globe 01:14:09.396 --> 01:14:13.518 and anchor, they're determined to keep these things going. 01:14:13.518 --> 01:14:15.851 And we know this for a fact. 01:14:16.046 --> 01:14:18.265 And we've gotta do better with our ethos 01:14:18.265 --> 01:14:20.598 and find the tools, the ways 01:14:21.071 --> 01:14:22.917 and convince those that come through the gates, 01:14:22.917 --> 01:14:25.512 and those who, like you said earlier, 01:14:25.512 --> 01:14:27.927 who are thinking about coming through the gate, 01:14:27.927 --> 01:14:30.626 the mom and dads who are talking to their kids. 01:14:30.626 --> 01:14:32.278 I have a son at the Naval Academy. 01:14:32.278 --> 01:14:35.539 They left for Spring break, going to Orlando. 01:14:35.539 --> 01:14:39.122 My wife is freaking, she's scared to death. 01:14:39.784 --> 01:14:42.715 And I just sat down with the four boys in my basement 01:14:42.715 --> 01:14:45.806 and talked about this, talked about sexual assault, 01:14:45.806 --> 01:14:48.841 talked about the ethos of honor, courage and commitment, 01:14:48.841 --> 01:14:51.874 the fact that one day, they too are gonna lead 01:14:51.874 --> 01:14:53.290 and they may lead in combat. 01:14:53.290 --> 01:14:56.448 But first, they must lead back here in peace time. 01:14:56.448 --> 01:14:58.401 Show that they're worthy leaders. 01:14:58.401 --> 01:14:59.685 Worthy leaders that go on 01:14:59.685 --> 01:15:02.503 and lead Marines and sailors in combat. 01:15:02.503 --> 01:15:04.266 I have a 14 year old daughter. 01:15:04.266 --> 01:15:07.904 I'd like to be, you know, proud if my daughter said 01:15:07.904 --> 01:15:11.571 she wanted to be a Marine, just like my son. 01:15:12.336 --> 01:15:14.518 I have to assure that I leave the footprint, 01:15:14.518 --> 01:15:17.302 along with the Commandant, that provides a way of safety 01:15:17.302 --> 01:15:20.552 for not only my kids, but all kids sir. 01:15:21.029 --> 01:15:22.943 - [Sullivan] Thank you, thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:15:22.943 --> 01:15:25.529 - [Man] On behalf of Senator McCain, Senator Kaine, please. 01:15:25.529 --> 01:15:26.951 - Thank you Mr. Chair and thanks to the witnesses. 01:15:26.951 --> 01:15:29.283 This is obviously a very serious hearing, 01:15:29.283 --> 01:15:30.124 important to have it. 01:15:30.124 --> 01:15:31.742 I'm the father of a Marine, 01:15:31.742 --> 01:15:34.992 I employ a lot of Marines in my office, 01:15:35.164 --> 01:15:39.101 my state is a state where every Marine officer is trained, 01:15:39.101 --> 01:15:40.879 every Marine security guard is trained, 01:15:40.879 --> 01:15:44.943 a lot of other Marines are trained and serve honorably 01:15:44.943 --> 01:15:46.821 and I think I just can say, 01:15:46.821 --> 01:15:48.782 on behalf of an awful lot of Virginians, 01:15:48.782 --> 01:15:50.511 this is a moment when the story broke 01:15:50.511 --> 01:15:52.415 that a lot of people's heart sunk. 01:15:52.415 --> 01:15:54.915 A lot of people's stomach were turned. 01:15:54.915 --> 01:15:58.392 And this is, this is absolutely critical to get right. 01:15:58.392 --> 01:16:00.785 You're completely aware of the work of this committee 01:16:00.785 --> 01:16:04.039 under the leadership of Senators Gillibrand, McCaskill 01:16:04.039 --> 01:16:07.260 and others to tackle sexual assault in the military. 01:16:07.260 --> 01:16:09.145 And it's still very much an open proposition 01:16:09.145 --> 01:16:12.581 on this committee because the question about 01:16:12.581 --> 01:16:14.771 whether sexual assault or other crimes should be 01:16:14.771 --> 01:16:17.953 treated within the Uniform Code of Military Justice 01:16:17.953 --> 01:16:22.016 or separately is something that we've resolved for now, 01:16:22.016 --> 01:16:24.933 to try within the chain of command, 01:16:25.633 --> 01:16:27.729 but we're testing the evidence, 01:16:27.729 --> 01:16:29.199 we're looking at the data to determine 01:16:29.199 --> 01:16:30.650 if that was right or not. 01:16:30.650 --> 01:16:33.368 And many of us, if we conclude that we're not getting 01:16:33.368 --> 01:16:35.862 the results that we want, even those of us 01:16:35.862 --> 01:16:37.890 who have supported chain of command in the past, 01:16:37.890 --> 01:16:40.426 may conclude that it's just not sufficient. 01:16:40.426 --> 01:16:43.602 And it would be tragic for the Marine Corps 01:16:43.602 --> 01:16:45.086 if that decision were to be made 01:16:45.086 --> 01:16:48.897 because of a belief that the Marine Corps bad example 01:16:48.897 --> 01:16:51.964 would cause us to make that decision for all branches. 01:16:51.964 --> 01:16:54.004 Or the Marine Corps' bad example would cause us 01:16:54.004 --> 01:16:56.520 to make a decision that would be with respect to 01:16:56.520 --> 01:16:58.944 one branch of the service and not the others. 01:16:58.944 --> 01:17:01.440 And so that's the weight of this matter 01:17:01.440 --> 01:17:03.543 in a body that is still really assessing 01:17:03.543 --> 01:17:05.732 whether the military, the Marine Corps 01:17:05.732 --> 01:17:06.574 and the other branches have the 01:17:06.574 --> 01:17:09.735 tools that they need to tackle this problem. 01:17:09.735 --> 01:17:12.054 The Marine Corps does a great job of, 01:17:12.054 --> 01:17:14.387 of setting people aside that 01:17:14.479 --> 01:17:17.204 don't meet physical fitness standards. 01:17:17.204 --> 01:17:21.371 The Marine Corps has done a very intense amount of work 01:17:21.766 --> 01:17:24.906 to get into the redefinition of military MOSs, 01:17:24.906 --> 01:17:26.626 to provide general neutral standards 01:17:26.626 --> 01:17:29.436 that people need to meet to serve in MOSs. 01:17:29.436 --> 01:17:32.265 If the Marine Corps attacks this problem 01:17:32.265 --> 01:17:34.965 with the same degree of attention and passion 01:17:34.965 --> 01:17:37.758 that they attack issues like physical standards, 01:17:37.758 --> 01:17:39.476 then you're going to solve it. 01:17:39.476 --> 01:17:42.554 But I think I speak for everybody up here, 01:17:42.554 --> 01:17:45.036 out of a belief that we just haven't seen that. 01:17:45.036 --> 01:17:47.023 We just haven't seen that level. 01:17:47.023 --> 01:17:48.849 General, I want to ask you something. 01:17:48.849 --> 01:17:50.486 I thought your opening statement was very good, 01:17:50.486 --> 01:17:51.587 but I did have one question about it. 01:17:51.587 --> 01:17:53.386 Could you get your written statement, 01:17:53.386 --> 01:17:54.730 because we don't have copies of it here, 01:17:54.730 --> 01:17:58.181 and just read the first couple sentences of it again to me? 01:17:58.181 --> 01:18:02.181 Because I have one question about what you said. 01:18:07.307 --> 01:18:08.342 - [Neller] The beginning sir? 01:18:08.342 --> 01:18:11.493 - Yeah, just right at the very beginning. 01:18:11.493 --> 01:18:12.806 - Normally, I appear before the committee 01:18:12.806 --> 01:18:14.613 to tell you about the extraordinary things 01:18:14.613 --> 01:18:17.668 the Marines are doing at home and around the globe. 01:18:17.668 --> 01:18:19.206 But today is different. 01:18:19.206 --> 01:18:20.769 I here today to discuss the details of some 01:18:20.769 --> 01:18:23.442 truly disturbing and unacceptable actions 01:18:23.442 --> 01:18:25.728 that have allegedly been committed on social media. 01:18:25.728 --> 01:18:27.311 - Stop right there. 01:18:28.053 --> 01:18:30.950 That have allegedly been committed on social media. 01:18:30.950 --> 01:18:33.244 Are we talking about allegations here? 01:18:33.244 --> 01:18:37.411 Or are we talking about something that has happened? 01:18:37.572 --> 01:18:41.739 I mean, it might be an allegation as to who was involved, 01:18:42.467 --> 01:18:45.177 but this is not just an allegation about something 01:18:45.177 --> 01:18:47.732 that happened on social media, this is a fact. 01:18:47.732 --> 01:18:49.315 Isn't that correct? 01:18:53.498 --> 01:18:55.532 - [Man] Senator, we're going to go into closed session. 01:18:55.532 --> 01:18:56.909 That might be a question that's most 01:18:56.909 --> 01:18:58.639 appropriate for closed session. 01:18:58.639 --> 01:18:59.836 - But I just think it's important 01:18:59.836 --> 01:19:02.003 to really make this clear. 01:19:02.536 --> 01:19:06.545 We're not talking about any individual in this hearing 01:19:06.545 --> 01:19:08.957 and we shouldn't, for the reason that you stated. 01:19:08.957 --> 01:19:10.310 But if in the public hearing, 01:19:10.310 --> 01:19:12.775 this is described as alleged behavior, 01:19:12.775 --> 01:19:15.130 that there are allegations of something on social media, 01:19:15.130 --> 01:19:16.987 I don't think we're treating it 01:19:16.987 --> 01:19:18.612 with the seriousness we need to. 01:19:18.612 --> 01:19:21.108 This is not allegations about social media, 01:19:21.108 --> 01:19:23.308 this stuff happened and the General's testimony 01:19:23.308 --> 01:19:25.184 that Marines United isn't unique 01:19:25.184 --> 01:19:29.351 and Senator Donnelly's description of Marines United 2.0, 01:19:29.737 --> 01:19:32.645 I just think it's important that we not leave confusion 01:19:32.645 --> 01:19:35.581 with the public that we're here just talking about 01:19:35.581 --> 01:19:37.857 some allegations of something on social media. 01:19:37.857 --> 01:19:38.690 This happened. 01:19:38.690 --> 01:19:40.604 Now, who was involved, we're not going to get into that 01:19:40.604 --> 01:19:43.910 in an open session, but I would just put that to your 01:19:43.910 --> 01:19:45.941 attention going forward because we're talking 01:19:45.941 --> 01:19:48.069 about more than just allegations here. 01:19:48.069 --> 01:19:52.152 Secretary Stackley, let me just ask you in close, 01:19:54.675 --> 01:19:57.605 I have a hard time believing that this massive sharing 01:19:57.605 --> 01:20:00.541 of information about woman in the Marines 01:20:00.541 --> 01:20:03.546 would just be limited to this branch. 01:20:03.546 --> 01:20:06.305 Talk to me about investigations into 01:20:06.305 --> 01:20:08.123 whether this is also going on 01:20:08.123 --> 01:20:11.260 in the other branches of the military. 01:20:11.260 --> 01:20:13.742 - I can't speak specifically for the other branches, 01:20:13.742 --> 01:20:17.212 but in the closed session, what I would recommend we discuss 01:20:17.212 --> 01:20:21.229 is some of the information that NCIS is arriving at 01:20:21.229 --> 01:20:25.312 through their tip line and the number of websites 01:20:25.320 --> 01:20:29.147 that indicate similar activity on other websites. 01:20:29.147 --> 01:20:31.505 - Then let me just ask-- - It's very important. 01:20:31.505 --> 01:20:33.272 - Do you believe this activity is 01:20:33.272 --> 01:20:36.022 limited just to the Marine Corps? 01:20:36.546 --> 01:20:37.601 - [Stackley] No sir. 01:20:37.601 --> 01:20:39.351 - Thank you. - No sir. 01:20:39.484 --> 01:20:41.086 - [Man] On behalf of Chairman McCain, Senator-- 01:20:41.086 --> 01:20:44.342 - But I don't want to let it stop right there. 01:20:44.342 --> 01:20:47.385 This is at the top of Secretary Mattis's priority list, 01:20:47.385 --> 01:20:50.495 working across the service departments 01:20:50.495 --> 01:20:52.029 to get at this issue. 01:20:52.029 --> 01:20:55.520 This is not being managed as an isolated issue for the 01:20:55.520 --> 01:20:58.768 Marine Corps, in regards to the Department of Defense. 01:20:58.768 --> 01:21:00.519 We recognize vulnerabilities here 01:21:00.519 --> 01:21:01.979 and we need to prosecute those. 01:21:01.979 --> 01:21:02.812 - [Man] Senator Tillis please. 01:21:02.812 --> 01:21:03.645 - Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:21:03.645 --> 01:21:04.523 I'm going to try and be brief 01:21:04.523 --> 01:21:06.740 so that we can get to the closed session, 01:21:06.740 --> 01:21:10.907 but I did want to get a clarification on the Marines United 01:21:11.137 --> 01:21:13.966 that really the structure of what we're talking about here, 01:21:13.966 --> 01:21:14.991 because I think it's important 01:21:14.991 --> 01:21:17.027 and we can get into numbers later, 01:21:17.027 --> 01:21:19.249 but we're talking about 20 or 30,000 Marines 01:21:19.249 --> 01:21:21.471 involved in a social media network, 01:21:21.471 --> 01:21:25.638 much of which isn't the subject of the (audio cuts out), 01:21:27.022 --> 01:21:29.102 some rough idea of the sub page 01:21:29.102 --> 01:21:31.196 where the illicit activities were occurring, 01:21:31.196 --> 01:21:33.769 what that is, as a percentage of the total people engaged 01:21:33.769 --> 01:21:35.291 in what would otherwise be 01:21:35.291 --> 01:21:38.124 positive social media interaction? 01:21:39.757 --> 01:21:42.307 - We don't know how many, we know that, 01:21:42.307 --> 01:21:45.058 we believe there are about 30,000 total members of the page. 01:21:45.058 --> 01:21:47.063 How many active, how many former, how many reserve, 01:21:47.063 --> 01:21:49.063 how many other services. 01:21:49.466 --> 01:21:51.156 - [Tillis] But in that page you talked about-- 01:21:51.156 --> 01:21:54.733 - In the link to take you to the separate drive, 01:21:54.733 --> 01:21:57.718 I have been told that the numbers were about 500. 01:21:57.718 --> 01:21:59.937 - OK, that's the important point. 01:21:59.937 --> 01:22:01.477 Because I think a lot of people think 01:22:01.477 --> 01:22:04.580 that there are some 30,000 Marines engaged in this activity. 01:22:04.580 --> 01:22:08.299 The number is whatever it is (audio cuts out), 01:22:08.299 --> 01:22:11.019 what we think is a minor subset of the total page, 01:22:11.019 --> 01:22:13.364 I think that's very important. 01:22:13.364 --> 01:22:16.198 - I would understand and appreciate your comments Senator, 01:22:16.198 --> 01:22:17.985 but it doesn't matter if there's one. 01:22:17.985 --> 01:22:20.103 - I get it, now I want to get to the next, 01:22:20.103 --> 01:22:21.676 for those who were in this subset 01:22:21.676 --> 01:22:23.110 and involved in these activities, 01:22:23.110 --> 01:22:25.975 what is the maximum penalty and discipline 01:22:25.975 --> 01:22:27.607 that they can receive if they're found 01:22:27.607 --> 01:22:31.774 to have been engaged at any level in that sub-site? 01:22:34.919 --> 01:22:37.132 Can they be court-martialed, can they be imprisoned, 01:22:37.132 --> 01:22:38.475 can they be fined, in other words, 01:22:38.475 --> 01:22:40.747 what discipline are these folks subject to right now, 01:22:40.747 --> 01:22:42.997 based on the current rules? 01:22:44.819 --> 01:22:47.371 - I think that would depend on what their level 01:22:47.371 --> 01:22:50.223 of involvement was and what they were doing. 01:22:50.223 --> 01:22:51.197 - Let's say for the worst of the worst, 01:22:51.197 --> 01:22:53.218 whatever that may be, just hypothetical, 01:22:53.218 --> 01:22:54.470 for the worst of the worst, 01:22:54.470 --> 01:22:58.637 what potential penalty could they receive from this? 01:22:59.117 --> 01:23:01.161 - [Stackley] They could be court-martialed, sir. 01:23:01.161 --> 01:23:03.680 - What about a veteran, somebody that's no longer 01:23:03.680 --> 01:23:06.429 in active service that's also engaged in this, 01:23:06.429 --> 01:23:08.847 I'm assuming just based on the numbers of Sargent Major, 01:23:08.847 --> 01:23:10.804 there's gonna be some of those involved. 01:23:10.804 --> 01:23:14.471 What consequence could they possibly suffer? 01:23:14.975 --> 01:23:17.360 - I think it depends on the state. 01:23:17.360 --> 01:23:20.058 Certain states have certain laws about this. 01:23:20.058 --> 01:23:21.941 And there are certain provisions about 01:23:21.941 --> 01:23:25.108 what is consent with use of a picture. 01:23:25.820 --> 01:23:26.944 - I'd like to find out, 01:23:26.944 --> 01:23:28.379 you don't have to answer the question. 01:23:28.379 --> 01:23:29.562 But I want to look at other things 01:23:29.562 --> 01:23:32.008 that we need to do here to make this a very, 01:23:32.008 --> 01:23:34.500 very painful exercise for somebody caught 01:23:34.500 --> 01:23:36.250 guilty of doing this. 01:23:37.455 --> 01:23:39.044 As a member of the Veteran's committee, 01:23:39.044 --> 01:23:40.113 if there's something we could do 01:23:40.113 --> 01:23:42.028 to disallow their benefits for 01:23:42.028 --> 01:23:44.571 bad behavior after their discharge, 01:23:44.571 --> 01:23:46.287 those are the sorts of things that we have to do. 01:23:46.287 --> 01:23:48.074 Part of what you need to do is change the culture, 01:23:48.074 --> 01:23:50.159 and I believe that you will, General Neller, 01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:51.638 and I think that we need to work on that, 01:23:51.638 --> 01:23:55.805 but we also need to make it a very frightening proposition 01:23:55.835 --> 01:23:57.453 for people going forward to be 01:23:57.453 --> 01:23:59.542 captured in this sort of activity. 01:23:59.542 --> 01:24:01.622 So I'd like to get people to report back to me, 01:24:01.622 --> 01:24:03.132 as a member of the Veterans Committee, 01:24:03.132 --> 01:24:05.320 as the chair of the personnel sub-committee, 01:24:05.320 --> 01:24:07.825 what more do we need to do to make this a very 01:24:07.825 --> 01:24:09.498 frightening proposition for somebody 01:24:09.498 --> 01:24:11.568 to get tempted into doing going forward, 01:24:11.568 --> 01:24:14.278 so that you don't have to focus on these sorts of things? 01:24:14.278 --> 01:24:17.395 I want you to train Marines to be safe and lethal 01:24:17.395 --> 01:24:20.023 on the battlefield, not doing these sorts of things 01:24:20.023 --> 01:24:22.623 and I think we need to work to make it very clear 01:24:22.623 --> 01:24:25.065 that this is going to produce dire consequences 01:24:25.065 --> 01:24:27.143 for people stupid enough to do 01:24:27.143 --> 01:24:28.805 these kind of things going forward. 01:24:28.805 --> 01:24:30.555 Thank you, Mr. Chair. 01:24:33.265 --> 01:24:37.098 - Thank you Mr. Chairmen, I've gone from anger 01:24:38.883 --> 01:24:41.966 and disappointment to really sadness. 01:24:43.950 --> 01:24:45.725 This is a sad day for the Marine Corps 01:24:45.725 --> 01:24:47.975 and for our armed services. 01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:51.279 What bothers me, General Neller, 01:24:51.279 --> 01:24:54.279 is that I'm convinced that all of us 01:24:55.338 --> 01:24:58.505 human beings have the capacity to be good or evil. 01:24:58.505 --> 01:25:01.693 And how that comes out in any given situation 01:25:01.693 --> 01:25:03.083 particularly in group situations, 01:25:03.083 --> 01:25:06.583 depends almost entirely on how we're led. 01:25:06.773 --> 01:25:09.508 And one of the things that bothers me 01:25:09.508 --> 01:25:11.587 is there was a quote in the press last week 01:25:11.587 --> 01:25:13.608 from the reporter and the former Marine 01:25:13.608 --> 01:25:17.025 who really broke this story that not once 01:25:18.428 --> 01:25:21.761 on this website or on Marines United 2.0 01:25:22.197 --> 01:25:26.364 did he see anybody say this isn't what we're going to do, 01:25:26.701 --> 01:25:30.052 this is wrong, this is improper, this is disrespectful, 01:25:30.052 --> 01:25:33.719 not once, and that speaks to me of a culture 01:25:34.431 --> 01:25:36.341 that goes all the way down. 01:25:36.341 --> 01:25:37.862 And you can have proclamations 01:25:37.862 --> 01:25:40.363 and issue letters and everything else, 01:25:40.363 --> 01:25:43.696 but if you've got lower ranking officers 01:25:43.874 --> 01:25:48.041 and non-commissioned officers who are winking and laughing 01:25:48.390 --> 01:25:52.035 and just, they deliver the statement with a little grin, 01:25:52.035 --> 01:25:53.562 that undermines the whole thing. 01:25:53.562 --> 01:25:56.911 And this is an indication to me, of a serious 01:25:56.911 --> 01:26:01.078 cultural problem that goes beyond the specifics of orders. 01:26:03.099 --> 01:26:06.266 Do you understand what I'm suggesting? 01:26:06.559 --> 01:26:07.698 - Senator, I understand perfectly 01:26:07.698 --> 01:26:10.615 what you're suggesting and I agree. 01:26:13.512 --> 01:26:17.078 Being a bystander for any sort of an offense 01:26:17.078 --> 01:26:19.995 is something that we struggle with. 01:26:22.448 --> 01:26:25.913 Whenever, I was told once by a senior officer 01:26:25.913 --> 01:26:27.778 that the Marine Corps is built on discipline 01:26:27.778 --> 01:26:30.341 and it's a rock, it's the foundation of our house 01:26:30.341 --> 01:26:33.824 and every time you walk by something you know is wrong, 01:26:33.824 --> 01:26:36.007 it's the equivalent to taking a hammer 01:26:36.007 --> 01:26:38.257 and hitting that rock and putting a chip in it. 01:26:38.257 --> 01:26:40.290 And if enough people walk by, 01:26:40.290 --> 01:26:43.373 pretty soon that thing's gonna crack. 01:26:49.228 --> 01:26:51.228 We may be at that point. 01:26:54.154 --> 01:26:55.617 And I think Marines, in their mind, 01:26:55.617 --> 01:26:58.562 they somehow have separated what they do 01:26:58.562 --> 01:27:00.850 during operational things and what they do in training 01:27:00.850 --> 01:27:05.017 and what they do when they're not actively engaged. 01:27:05.146 --> 01:27:08.568 They think that the social media, the net, 01:27:08.568 --> 01:27:12.401 gives them anonymity to do this type of thing. 01:27:12.665 --> 01:27:15.010 They're ignorant as to the impact. 01:27:15.010 --> 01:27:18.427 And I don't, that's what I've got to make 01:27:18.698 --> 01:27:22.659 everybody understand, no, it doesn't work that way. 01:27:22.659 --> 01:27:24.584 This is your Marine Corps-- 01:27:24.584 --> 01:27:27.584 - Beyond this posting and being dumb 01:27:28.435 --> 01:27:32.185 about what they put online is the underlying, 01:27:32.720 --> 01:27:33.844 these guys apparently didn't feel 01:27:33.844 --> 01:27:35.387 that they were doing anything wrong. 01:27:35.387 --> 01:27:37.867 They were on this website with 30,000 people on it 01:27:37.867 --> 01:27:39.740 and they were posting it and nobody said 01:27:39.740 --> 01:27:42.007 this isn't appropriate or gee fellas, 01:27:42.007 --> 01:27:43.778 do you think this is a good idea? 01:27:43.778 --> 01:27:47.528 That indicates to me that they felt empowered 01:27:47.791 --> 01:27:51.958 or enabled to do this and so it's really not a question 01:27:52.311 --> 01:27:56.478 of issuing orders, it's issuing orders that are credible, 01:27:56.617 --> 01:28:00.454 go all the way down the line, in terms of not only 01:28:00.454 --> 01:28:04.621 saying the right thing but meaning it and conveying it. 01:28:06.529 --> 01:28:09.838 - Mr. Brennan, the individual that broke the story. 01:28:09.838 --> 01:28:12.654 He said it, and I think we're finding, 01:28:12.654 --> 01:28:15.957 and we're gonna find that there are more gonna come out 01:28:15.957 --> 01:28:19.457 and say what should have been said before. 01:28:20.729 --> 01:28:22.354 There are a number of people out there 01:28:22.354 --> 01:28:26.021 that have the ear of whatever this group is. 01:28:28.558 --> 01:28:30.506 - By the way, you know that they're mocking you 01:28:30.506 --> 01:28:31.972 and the leadership-- - I understand that. 01:28:31.972 --> 01:28:35.980 - On this MU 2.0 and they're saying come and get us NCIS, 01:28:35.980 --> 01:28:37.755 they're continuing to post pictures, 01:28:37.755 --> 01:28:40.505 as recently as this past weekend. 01:28:40.973 --> 01:28:44.473 I mean, they're not getting the word here. 01:28:47.107 --> 01:28:51.067 - Well, then we'll have to get the word to them. 01:28:51.067 --> 01:28:53.518 - Let me just follow up with one quick question 01:28:53.518 --> 01:28:55.520 to what Mr. Tillis asked and perhaps 01:28:55.520 --> 01:28:56.837 this is for the closed session. 01:28:56.837 --> 01:28:58.881 I think one of the real problems here is 01:28:58.881 --> 01:29:01.109 what is the jurisdiction, what is the accountability 01:29:01.109 --> 01:29:04.192 for a former Marine who's not in the, 01:29:04.497 --> 01:29:08.580 there are rules, they're under the military code, 01:29:09.427 --> 01:29:13.207 there are consequences for people who are in the Marines now 01:29:13.207 --> 01:29:15.444 but if they're out, in fact, again, 01:29:15.444 --> 01:29:17.713 one of the things I've read is a guy posted 01:29:17.713 --> 01:29:21.880 his discharge papers and said try to come and get me NCIS. 01:29:22.447 --> 01:29:25.030 So that is a separate question. 01:29:25.335 --> 01:29:28.559 Mr. Stackley, can you respond in open session on that 01:29:28.559 --> 01:29:31.357 or is this going to be a matter of state law? 01:29:31.357 --> 01:29:33.334 - Today, it's a matter of state law. 01:29:33.334 --> 01:29:35.857 You know, the first thing I would try to dive into 01:29:35.857 --> 01:29:39.107 is what's legal versus what's not legal 01:29:39.884 --> 01:29:43.215 and then what's acceptable versus what's not acceptable 01:29:43.215 --> 01:29:46.207 and there are a number of behaviors here 01:29:46.207 --> 01:29:49.672 that are absolutely unacceptable and yet they are legal. 01:29:49.672 --> 01:29:53.839 Within the services, we have the ability to draw that line 01:29:56.069 --> 01:29:58.495 in terms of something that's not acceptable, 01:29:58.495 --> 01:29:59.923 we're going to prosecute. 01:29:59.923 --> 01:30:04.090 Outside of the service, where it is legal and unacceptable, 01:30:04.258 --> 01:30:06.773 we are limited in our ability to prosecute. 01:30:06.773 --> 01:30:10.190 So I welcome Senator Sullivan's comments, 01:30:10.623 --> 01:30:12.899 or I'm sorry, Senator Tillis' comments 01:30:12.899 --> 01:30:16.262 regarding added authorities that we might 01:30:16.262 --> 01:30:18.827 want to look into that give us the ability 01:30:18.827 --> 01:30:21.338 to go outside of Uniform Services, 01:30:21.338 --> 01:30:24.907 for everybody to understand, you served in our country, 01:30:24.907 --> 01:30:27.247 you left the uniform behind, you remain accountable 01:30:27.247 --> 01:30:28.972 to the code that we hold those 01:30:28.972 --> 01:30:31.118 still in uniform to behave to. 01:30:31.118 --> 01:30:33.969 - [King] Thank you, thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:30:33.969 --> 01:30:36.110 - Thank you, did someone actually put their 01:30:36.110 --> 01:30:39.277 discharge online and said come get me? 01:30:40.427 --> 01:30:42.274 Did they actually do that? 01:30:42.274 --> 01:30:45.369 Who is that person, do we know their name? 01:30:45.369 --> 01:30:46.748 - I'll give you the citation-- 01:30:46.748 --> 01:30:49.834 - Well, let's make them famous right here. 01:30:49.834 --> 01:30:51.417 What is their name? 01:30:54.105 --> 01:30:56.115 We'll get it later, we'll publicly 01:30:56.115 --> 01:30:59.282 let the world know who this person is. 01:31:01.042 --> 01:31:04.292 The website, I'm a little confused now, 01:31:06.138 --> 01:31:08.982 I'm not the best person to tell you about the internet, 01:31:08.982 --> 01:31:12.482 that's for darn sure but the 30,000 people 01:31:12.764 --> 01:31:16.931 who are viewing this, were most of them doing bad things 01:31:17.240 --> 01:31:21.240 or were they just talking as Marines, Secretary? 01:31:23.077 --> 01:31:25.957 - The numbers that we are looking at right now 01:31:25.957 --> 01:31:29.251 is the majority of them were not involved in this activity. 01:31:29.251 --> 01:31:33.084 - So the posting of photos, sometimes illegal, 01:31:35.142 --> 01:31:38.640 somebody took a photo of a young female Marine, 01:31:38.640 --> 01:31:42.557 how many of the 30,000 went to that part of it? 01:31:43.249 --> 01:31:47.064 - The number that we're carrying is about 500. 01:31:47.064 --> 01:31:49.540 But we're still, the investigation remains ongoing. 01:31:49.540 --> 01:31:51.475 - I'm agreeing with the General, one is too many, 01:31:51.475 --> 01:31:54.347 but I'm just trying to get my head around, 01:31:54.347 --> 01:31:57.430 what was the purpose of this website? 01:31:59.657 --> 01:32:02.681 - Marines United was initiated five or six years ago 01:32:02.681 --> 01:32:04.585 with good purposes in mind. 01:32:04.585 --> 01:32:08.159 And that was to support Marines who were suffering from 01:32:08.159 --> 01:32:11.242 PTSD and coming out of combat action. 01:32:11.548 --> 01:32:14.059 - So these websites started with a good purpose 01:32:14.059 --> 01:32:17.432 and some people have hijacked it basically, is that right? 01:32:17.432 --> 01:32:18.265 - Yes, sir. 01:32:18.265 --> 01:32:22.432 - OK, Sargent Major, you've got a 14 year old daughter. 01:32:23.005 --> 01:32:24.174 - [Green] Yes, sir. 01:32:24.174 --> 01:32:27.191 - What would you tell someone who has a 14 year old daughter 01:32:27.191 --> 01:32:30.768 that doesn't know as much about the Marines as you do, 01:32:30.768 --> 01:32:34.935 about whether that daughter should join the Marines? 01:32:35.655 --> 01:32:39.822 - First off sir, I'm ashamed of the actions of this website. 01:32:40.488 --> 01:32:44.655 We recruit Marines, as I said before, 30,000 a year. 01:32:45.155 --> 01:32:49.322 And I can assure that parent, (audio cuts out). 01:32:50.708 --> 01:32:52.860 Command in the Marine Corps, 01:32:52.860 --> 01:32:54.653 the leadership, we're going to do everything we can. 01:32:54.653 --> 01:32:57.994 - Would you tell those parents to send their daughter 01:32:57.994 --> 01:33:00.266 to the Marines, given what we know today? 01:33:00.266 --> 01:33:02.401 - Yes, sir, I can assure them that myself, 01:33:02.401 --> 01:33:04.306 the Commandant and the leadership, 01:33:04.306 --> 01:33:06.659 we're going to pave a way that's respectful. 01:33:06.659 --> 01:33:10.826 - What would you say to that young woman, General? 01:33:11.434 --> 01:33:14.851 Who's thinking about joining the Marines? 01:33:19.455 --> 01:33:22.744 - I could understand why they would have some questions. 01:33:22.744 --> 01:33:23.985 - Don't you think this has kind of stepped 01:33:23.985 --> 01:33:27.235 all over the recruiting of young women? 01:33:28.661 --> 01:33:31.082 - Senator, we're talking to our recruiting folks 01:33:31.082 --> 01:33:32.560 because the irony of all this 01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:33.534 is we're trying to increase the 01:33:33.534 --> 01:33:34.970 number of women in the Marine Corps. 01:33:34.970 --> 01:33:35.876 - Right, and I-- 01:33:35.876 --> 01:33:39.709 - This certainly, I would say, is not helpful. 01:33:39.834 --> 01:33:43.167 - I would say this is devastatingly bad. 01:33:43.408 --> 01:33:45.062 Would you agree with me that this is one of the 01:33:45.062 --> 01:33:47.983 darkest chapters in the history of the Marine Corps? 01:33:47.983 --> 01:33:51.816 Even though there's maybe 500 people involved? 01:33:53.370 --> 01:33:56.886 - We have not distinguished ourselves in this affair, no. 01:33:56.886 --> 01:33:58.968 - Having said that, you're the finest fighting force 01:33:58.968 --> 01:34:00.919 in the history of the world, pound for pound, 01:34:00.919 --> 01:34:02.682 the United States Marine Corps. 01:34:02.682 --> 01:34:04.701 You have an honored tradition, 01:34:04.701 --> 01:34:07.506 but every organization has dark moments. 01:34:07.506 --> 01:34:09.671 Do you agree with me this is one of the darkest moments 01:34:09.671 --> 01:34:11.754 and it needs to be fixed? 01:34:12.451 --> 01:34:13.701 - Yes, senator. 01:34:13.915 --> 01:34:15.787 - There's two ways to get people to do better, 01:34:15.787 --> 01:34:17.006 appeal to their better nature, 01:34:17.006 --> 01:34:20.673 Sargent Major Green, do you agree with that? 01:34:21.054 --> 01:34:22.094 - [Green] Absolutely, sir. 01:34:22.094 --> 01:34:23.617 - And scare the hell out of them. 01:34:23.617 --> 01:34:24.534 - Yes, sir. 01:34:25.507 --> 01:34:28.155 - General, do you believe that people are sufficiently 01:34:28.155 --> 01:34:32.155 afraid of degrading their fellow female Marines, 01:34:33.649 --> 01:34:35.149 as of this moment? 01:34:37.037 --> 01:34:39.693 - Based on their actions, no, no senator. 01:34:39.693 --> 01:34:41.168 - Will you promise me that there 01:34:41.168 --> 01:34:43.585 will be a lot of fear coming? 01:34:46.097 --> 01:34:50.264 - We will do all we can to hold people accountable. 01:34:52.291 --> 01:34:56.291 - The Marine Hymn says, first to fight for right 01:34:56.611 --> 01:34:59.944 and freedom and to keep our honor clean. 01:35:01.597 --> 01:35:05.764 Do you believe you will fight to keep that honor clean? 01:35:06.177 --> 01:35:08.193 - Absolutely, Senator, we have to. 01:35:08.193 --> 01:35:09.488 - [Graham] Are you committed to winning that fight? 01:35:09.488 --> 01:35:10.321 - I am. 01:35:10.321 --> 01:35:12.071 - [Graham] Thank you. 01:35:15.549 --> 01:35:16.382 Mr. Chair? 01:35:23.148 --> 01:35:27.315 - Thank you Mr. Chairman, I realize that so much of 01:35:28.387 --> 01:35:31.201 this kind of behavior has to do with 01:35:31.201 --> 01:35:35.314 some attitudes and culture and it's very difficult, 01:35:35.314 --> 01:35:37.611 General Neller, to change the culture. 01:35:37.611 --> 01:35:40.178 So I'm wondering whether one of the ways 01:35:40.178 --> 01:35:42.486 that we can deal with this issue 01:35:42.486 --> 01:35:44.733 is to provide some deterrents 01:35:44.733 --> 01:35:46.757 and would you agree that one of the ways 01:35:46.757 --> 01:35:49.194 that we could deter this kind of behavior 01:35:49.194 --> 01:35:52.777 is through court-martial where appropriate? 01:35:54.727 --> 01:35:57.937 - Senator, I believe deterrence is part of this 01:35:57.937 --> 01:36:00.062 and there's got to be accountability. 01:36:00.062 --> 01:36:04.229 Whether it be a court-martial or other processes, yes. 01:36:04.656 --> 01:36:08.044 - In terms of, well changing the culture, 01:36:08.044 --> 01:36:10.295 how would you begin to even change the culture. 01:36:10.295 --> 01:36:13.647 This has been a longstanding, not just in the Marines, 01:36:13.647 --> 01:36:15.980 but issues that involve our, 01:36:19.177 --> 01:36:20.844 all of our services. 01:36:20.885 --> 01:36:23.345 So how do you even begin to change the culture, 01:36:23.345 --> 01:36:26.001 when, for example, you have a Commander and Chief 01:36:26.001 --> 01:36:29.529 who exhibits certain attitudes toward women, 01:36:29.529 --> 01:36:32.029 how do you change the culture? 01:36:36.330 --> 01:36:39.428 - The only way I know how we've done that in the past, 01:36:39.428 --> 01:36:41.735 when we've dealt with other issues, 01:36:41.735 --> 01:36:44.318 and we accept the fact, I mean, 01:36:44.708 --> 01:36:45.956 there are always going to be those 01:36:45.956 --> 01:36:49.289 that are going to not be able to adjust, 01:36:50.338 --> 01:36:53.470 and they'll have to be, that'll be addressed. 01:36:53.470 --> 01:36:57.556 But I believe that most Marines join the Marine Corps 01:36:57.556 --> 01:37:00.875 to improve themselves, that they're good and decent people 01:37:00.875 --> 01:37:02.984 and they've got to understand that there are 01:37:02.984 --> 01:37:05.219 certain behaviors that we expect 01:37:05.219 --> 01:37:07.093 and that we recognize positively 01:37:07.093 --> 01:37:09.356 and there's others that we do not. 01:37:09.356 --> 01:37:11.167 And part of that's having a discussion. 01:37:11.167 --> 01:37:12.377 It's got to start at the beginning, 01:37:12.377 --> 01:37:14.524 when they first see their recruiter. 01:37:14.524 --> 01:37:17.635 And it has to be modeled throughout the organization. 01:37:17.635 --> 01:37:20.817 And there are obviously those either who are not 01:37:20.817 --> 01:37:23.567 modeling the culture that we want 01:37:23.961 --> 01:37:25.929 or they're even condoning it. 01:37:25.929 --> 01:37:28.329 So as the Sargent Major said, 01:37:28.329 --> 01:37:31.332 we're going to go back, take a look at where it starts, 01:37:31.332 --> 01:37:34.067 for all Marines it starts at recruit training 01:37:34.067 --> 01:37:36.852 or it starts at Officer Candidate School 01:37:36.852 --> 01:37:39.499 and we're going to look at how we talk about this, 01:37:39.499 --> 01:37:40.905 make sure they understand it. 01:37:40.905 --> 01:37:44.231 But as you say, at some point there has to be deterrence 01:37:44.231 --> 01:37:46.755 because there will, I would like to say 01:37:46.755 --> 01:37:50.922 we'd be 100% successful, but we probably will not. 01:37:52.211 --> 01:37:54.537 So for those that are not able to comply, 01:37:54.537 --> 01:37:56.787 there has to be deterrence. 01:37:57.436 --> 01:38:00.436 - So I'm assuming that you will take 01:38:01.129 --> 01:38:03.605 every step necessary to identify 01:38:03.605 --> 01:38:07.522 whether certain codes of behavior were violated 01:38:07.810 --> 01:38:10.643 and then to pursue court-martials, 01:38:10.827 --> 01:38:14.577 that you will do that very, very strenuously. 01:38:15.346 --> 01:38:16.596 - Yes, Senator. 01:38:18.104 --> 01:38:20.274 - I would say another aspect of all of this 01:38:20.274 --> 01:38:23.857 is that what kind of message are you giving 01:38:24.343 --> 01:38:26.843 to the current female Marines? 01:38:27.671 --> 01:38:29.885 I don't know how many women there are in the Marines, 01:38:29.885 --> 01:38:33.052 but have you brought everyone together 01:38:33.871 --> 01:38:36.621 in a way that the message gets to 01:38:37.575 --> 01:38:40.095 not just individuals who are undergoing training 01:38:40.095 --> 01:38:42.465 or during the recruitment process, 01:38:42.465 --> 01:38:46.632 but the current situation with all of your women Marines, 01:38:47.593 --> 01:38:50.025 have you had any kind of a gathering 01:38:50.025 --> 01:38:53.108 of the Marines, both male and female, 01:38:53.290 --> 01:38:57.207 to talk about how this is totally unacceptable? 01:38:59.009 --> 01:39:02.093 - Senator, the only way I can address 185,000 Marines, 01:39:02.093 --> 01:39:04.042 or right today about 184, 01:39:04.042 --> 01:39:07.375 and there is about 15,000 women Marines. 01:39:07.726 --> 01:39:10.144 And about 1500 of them are officers, 01:39:10.144 --> 01:39:14.311 13,500 are enlisted, is for me to use our own platforms 01:39:16.434 --> 01:39:18.756 on social media to tell them what's going on 01:39:18.756 --> 01:39:22.265 and what they should expect from their leadership. 01:39:22.265 --> 01:39:24.682 - Excuse me, yes, that's you, 01:39:25.026 --> 01:39:29.193 but there are also all of your leaders on the bases. 01:39:30.400 --> 01:39:33.587 What are they doing to get the message across en masse? 01:39:33.587 --> 01:39:37.504 - We have spoken to all leadership last Friday. 01:39:39.006 --> 01:39:41.551 We issued instructions for them 01:39:41.551 --> 01:39:44.690 to go out and engage in this conversation. 01:39:44.690 --> 01:39:46.940 I'm going to follow that up 01:39:47.394 --> 01:39:49.887 this week with even more direction. 01:39:49.887 --> 01:39:51.924 I'm going down, the Sargent Major and I 01:39:51.924 --> 01:39:52.999 are going down to Camp Lejeune to 01:39:52.999 --> 01:39:55.999 directly speak to Marines in person. 01:39:57.069 --> 01:39:59.736 But it's going to take some work 01:40:00.416 --> 01:40:04.333 so that everybody gets down to the last Marine. 01:40:04.628 --> 01:40:08.128 So we have a plan to speak both personally 01:40:09.134 --> 01:40:11.884 and using other venues or forums, 01:40:13.219 --> 01:40:16.137 such as this hearing today, to tell them what's going on 01:40:16.137 --> 01:40:17.649 and what they should expect 01:40:17.649 --> 01:40:21.816 and what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. 01:40:22.645 --> 01:40:24.268 - So if I were to go to (audio cuts out) 01:40:24.268 --> 01:40:25.272 Marine Corps for example, 01:40:25.272 --> 01:40:28.611 would there be a session that I could attend 01:40:28.611 --> 01:40:31.944 where this situation would be discussed? 01:40:34.464 --> 01:40:36.325 - There will be or there has been. 01:40:36.325 --> 01:40:39.634 I don't know exactly when commanders have scheduled this. 01:40:39.634 --> 01:40:41.215 But I can find that out for you, Senator, 01:40:41.215 --> 01:40:43.199 when you're home and if you want to participate, 01:40:43.199 --> 01:40:44.266 I would appreciate that. 01:40:44.266 --> 01:40:48.433 - I will certainly check into that, thank you very much. 01:40:50.504 --> 01:40:52.587 - Thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:40:53.142 --> 01:40:57.309 General, you and the Sargent Major both made it very clear 01:40:57.487 --> 01:41:01.487 that you have been disgusted with this activity. 01:41:03.031 --> 01:41:07.198 I believe you when you say that you want this ended. 01:41:08.007 --> 01:41:10.282 At the same time, I was wondering, 01:41:10.282 --> 01:41:12.517 when you first heard about this 01:41:12.517 --> 01:41:15.767 and you're working your way through it, 01:41:16.739 --> 01:41:19.723 did it come to mind that this may very well 01:41:19.723 --> 01:41:23.890 be an outgrowth of the discrimination that we've seen 01:41:24.131 --> 01:41:26.999 in terms of men who may very well have thought 01:41:26.999 --> 01:41:28.645 that we just simply don't think this is 01:41:28.645 --> 01:41:31.645 the place for women in the military? 01:41:35.084 --> 01:41:37.085 - Senator, we talked about that. 01:41:37.085 --> 01:41:38.918 And I'm sure there are 01:41:41.506 --> 01:41:44.461 gonna be people that have that particular view. 01:41:44.461 --> 01:41:47.961 But OK, I don't see how that gets you from 01:41:49.644 --> 01:41:51.325 that particular view to where you have to 01:41:51.325 --> 01:41:53.665 take a picture of somebody, post it online, 01:41:53.665 --> 01:41:56.748 and then mock, haze, harass, degrade, 01:41:57.324 --> 01:42:00.657 or even potentially assault them online. 01:42:01.661 --> 01:42:05.828 That's, you know, whether that's their motivation or not. 01:42:06.564 --> 01:42:07.647 I don't know. 01:42:07.715 --> 01:42:10.314 Whether, I've heard it described as the 01:42:10.314 --> 01:42:13.731 dark humor of veterans, that's a cop out. 01:42:14.352 --> 01:42:15.861 But we also know that there are Marines 01:42:15.861 --> 01:42:17.060 that are participating in this 01:42:17.060 --> 01:42:19.706 who never have been shot at in their lives. 01:42:19.706 --> 01:42:23.036 So they're just trying to get credibility, I don't know. 01:42:23.036 --> 01:42:27.203 It really doesn't matter what their motivation is to me. 01:42:27.898 --> 01:42:29.380 It's the behavior. 01:42:29.380 --> 01:42:33.547 And whatever made them think that they were going to do this 01:42:34.032 --> 01:42:36.229 or watch it and not report it, 01:42:36.229 --> 01:42:37.936 that's what we've got to get after. 01:42:37.936 --> 01:42:39.153 - The reality is is that we can't go 01:42:39.153 --> 01:42:42.041 to war without women anymore, can we? 01:42:42.041 --> 01:42:44.041 - No, Senator, we can't. 01:42:45.512 --> 01:42:47.732 - There's 500 individuals that we believe 01:42:47.732 --> 01:42:51.649 have participated in the inappropriate activity 01:42:52.454 --> 01:42:55.678 on this particular website that's been brought to light. 01:42:55.678 --> 01:42:58.062 Do we know how many of the 500 would perhaps 01:42:58.062 --> 01:42:59.965 have been a former members versus 01:42:59.965 --> 01:43:02.965 the number that are current members? 01:43:03.406 --> 01:43:04.927 Do we have numbers there yet? 01:43:04.927 --> 01:43:06.308 - No senator, we don't. 01:43:06.308 --> 01:43:09.167 NCIS in the closed session, they may have more, 01:43:09.167 --> 01:43:11.309 because they just got access to some more information, 01:43:11.309 --> 01:43:13.809 but right now, we do not know. 01:43:15.156 --> 01:43:16.283 - [Green] Senator Rounds, sir, if I could say something-- 01:43:16.283 --> 01:43:17.200 - Yes, sir. 01:43:17.372 --> 01:43:19.294 - That you just talked about. 01:43:19.294 --> 01:43:22.711 One of the worst parts besides, you know, 01:43:23.929 --> 01:43:27.485 the victim or the survivor about this whole ordeal, 01:43:27.485 --> 01:43:30.485 if there are men in the Marine Corps 01:43:30.615 --> 01:43:32.206 that have served in the uniform 01:43:32.206 --> 01:43:34.277 or they feel that women are not 01:43:34.277 --> 01:43:36.435 supposed to be in the Marine Corps, 01:43:36.435 --> 01:43:39.416 they have absolutely captured a voice 01:43:39.416 --> 01:43:41.749 with this social media venue 01:43:43.704 --> 01:43:46.614 and denigrated woman that are serving, 01:43:46.614 --> 01:43:49.520 that may want to serve and those that have served 01:43:49.520 --> 01:43:53.035 and they absolutely, if we don't get this right, 01:43:53.035 --> 01:43:56.555 they can absolutely drive women out of the Marine Corps 01:43:56.555 --> 01:44:00.722 and give women a reason not to want to serve with us 01:44:01.341 --> 01:44:03.262 and that's what we must get at this. 01:44:03.262 --> 01:44:05.703 Because if there are men that exist in the Marine Corps 01:44:05.703 --> 01:44:09.870 or outside that do not want women in the Marine Corps, 01:44:10.067 --> 01:44:11.996 this is absolutely a mouthpiece for them 01:44:11.996 --> 01:44:15.361 and we would not allow them to have that voice. 01:44:15.361 --> 01:44:18.069 - So in order to address specifically the actions 01:44:18.069 --> 01:44:20.596 that have occurred here, we have to make certain 01:44:20.596 --> 01:44:24.596 that we have, within your ability to discipline, 01:44:25.831 --> 01:44:29.831 clear and appropriate guidelines within the code 01:44:31.555 --> 01:44:34.016 that allow you to address the specific actions 01:44:34.016 --> 01:44:35.879 for people that are still in the military 01:44:35.879 --> 01:44:38.260 but then we've also gotta find a way 01:44:38.260 --> 01:44:41.201 to address the actions of those who were 01:44:41.201 --> 01:44:44.676 formerly in the military and who are no longer a part of it, 01:44:44.676 --> 01:44:48.628 but who are still displaying this type of activity. 01:44:48.628 --> 01:44:49.981 Is that a fair statement? 01:44:49.981 --> 01:44:52.646 And we've got to be able to break it down into those two? 01:44:52.646 --> 01:44:54.053 - Yes, sir, it is. 01:44:54.053 --> 01:44:57.053 - Thank you, thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:44:58.697 --> 01:45:02.569 - General Neller, would you agree that taking down the site 01:45:02.569 --> 01:45:05.288 is not going to solve this problem? 01:45:05.288 --> 01:45:06.752 - [Neller] I would agree with that Senator. 01:45:06.752 --> 01:45:08.131 It's only a symptom. 01:45:08.131 --> 01:45:10.908 - I think it's really important that we recognize 01:45:10.908 --> 01:45:12.952 that this is a digital problem, 01:45:12.952 --> 01:45:14.920 it's not a social media problem, 01:45:14.920 --> 01:45:17.253 it's not Facebook's problem, 01:45:17.422 --> 01:45:19.342 that that's a whack-a-mole approach 01:45:19.342 --> 01:45:22.096 and we've tried it in the past, it doesn't work. 01:45:22.096 --> 01:45:25.478 This is a conduct problem, it's a criminal problem, 01:45:25.478 --> 01:45:28.473 and unfortunately, it's a cultural problem. 01:45:28.473 --> 01:45:31.105 And you said in your opening testimony 01:45:31.105 --> 01:45:33.808 that it's your inclination to resist that description 01:45:33.808 --> 01:45:37.451 of cultural, but I think it's important to recognize 01:45:37.451 --> 01:45:40.514 that until we recognize that for what it is, 01:45:40.514 --> 01:45:42.014 this won't change. 01:45:42.483 --> 01:45:44.533 This pattern of social media groups 01:45:44.533 --> 01:45:48.700 posting pictures of female Marines without consent, 01:45:48.709 --> 01:45:51.792 I've seen some pictures, screenshots, 01:45:52.502 --> 01:45:55.502 glorifying horrible sexual violence. 01:45:56.994 --> 01:45:58.744 It's happened before. 01:46:00.354 --> 01:46:03.271 I've got an article here from 2014. 01:46:07.297 --> 01:46:08.438 I won't share it with you, 01:46:08.438 --> 01:46:11.437 because I don't want to share the Marine's name. 01:46:11.437 --> 01:46:14.187 But she said, "I was freaked out, 01:46:15.035 --> 01:46:17.485 "I wouldn't even look at it at first. 01:46:17.485 --> 01:46:20.441 "I have all of my social media set up so it's private, 01:46:20.441 --> 01:46:23.370 "so I was really confused how in the world 01:46:23.370 --> 01:46:25.198 "they got a photo of me. 01:46:25.198 --> 01:46:27.292 "I was terrified of the comments 01:46:27.292 --> 01:46:29.709 "I was going to be receiving. 01:46:30.654 --> 01:46:34.358 "And then subsequent comments were not only overtly sexual, 01:46:34.358 --> 01:46:37.525 "but some threatened sexual violence." 01:46:37.605 --> 01:46:41.412 You have asked for the trust of female Marines, 01:46:41.412 --> 01:46:44.730 you have asked for the trust of survivors. 01:46:44.730 --> 01:46:47.428 I just want to ask you, given that this has happened 01:46:47.428 --> 01:46:49.361 again and again, it's pervasive in the 01:46:49.361 --> 01:46:52.611 social media environment in particular, 01:46:52.767 --> 01:46:55.585 what would you say to those female Marines 01:46:55.585 --> 01:46:57.093 to demonstrate that Marine Corps 01:46:57.093 --> 01:46:59.843 leadership has earned that trust? 01:47:09.865 --> 01:47:11.364 - That's why I'm asking them to trust me 01:47:11.364 --> 01:47:13.161 because my ability to sit there and say 01:47:13.161 --> 01:47:15.078 I've earned your trust, 01:47:15.158 --> 01:47:17.676 because we haven't gotten after this. 01:47:17.676 --> 01:47:19.259 I acknowledge that. 01:47:19.316 --> 01:47:21.159 But I can't get after it if they 01:47:21.159 --> 01:47:22.925 don't become part of the solution. 01:47:22.925 --> 01:47:25.258 And I know that's a big ask. 01:47:25.563 --> 01:47:28.453 Because, as you rightfully mention, 01:47:28.453 --> 01:47:31.247 if they're out there within these venues, 01:47:31.247 --> 01:47:33.331 all the haters will be back there 01:47:33.331 --> 01:47:35.748 attacking them again 10 fold. 01:47:36.111 --> 01:47:39.361 And I think that's part of the problem. 01:47:39.431 --> 01:47:43.554 It's the worst part of retribution in cyber bullying 01:47:43.554 --> 01:47:45.304 that if you make a comment, 01:47:45.304 --> 01:47:49.471 that you end up (audio cuts out). 01:47:50.115 --> 01:47:51.198 All the hate. 01:47:51.208 --> 01:47:52.652 I mean, it's going to come, 01:47:52.652 --> 01:47:54.486 I'm sure you deal with that, 01:47:54.486 --> 01:47:55.684 I know I'm going to deal with it. 01:47:55.684 --> 01:47:56.517 I've dealt with it, 01:47:56.517 --> 01:47:58.965 I'm going to certainly deal with it after today. 01:47:58.965 --> 01:47:59.890 That's fine. - A big part of that problem 01:47:59.890 --> 01:48:02.973 and you mentioned this, is anonymity. 01:48:03.414 --> 01:48:06.375 Are active duty Marines allowed to participate 01:48:06.375 --> 01:48:10.042 in social media, in that space, anonymously? 01:48:10.998 --> 01:48:12.435 And have you looked at that issue 01:48:12.435 --> 01:48:16.102 that maybe the rights of active duty Marines 01:48:17.589 --> 01:48:19.118 in a social media environment 01:48:19.118 --> 01:48:23.118 might be different from just the general public? 01:48:29.628 --> 01:48:31.619 - This is where it gets difficult 01:48:31.619 --> 01:48:33.578 and I would ask that we get with the lawyers, 01:48:33.578 --> 01:48:35.493 because I'm not an attorney. 01:48:35.493 --> 01:48:38.269 It becomes an issue of free speech 01:48:38.269 --> 01:48:39.694 and as the secretary said, 01:48:39.694 --> 01:48:42.296 what is criminal and what is not. 01:48:42.296 --> 01:48:43.213 What is a-- 01:48:45.509 --> 01:48:47.740 - What is a conduct issue-- - What is consent to a 01:48:47.740 --> 01:48:51.490 picture and what is not consent to a picture. 01:48:52.003 --> 01:48:53.923 But there are individuals out there 01:48:53.923 --> 01:48:55.590 that put their name, 01:48:58.131 --> 01:48:59.548 their unit and... 01:49:03.032 --> 01:49:06.365 There has to be accountability for that. 01:49:06.432 --> 01:49:10.599 So that's what I'm asking our women to help us with. 01:49:12.283 --> 01:49:14.700 - I would ask you to help us, 01:49:15.865 --> 01:49:19.282 if there are specific changes to the UCMJ 01:49:19.395 --> 01:49:21.174 that you need to be able to address 01:49:21.174 --> 01:49:23.470 these sort of abusive behaviors. 01:49:23.470 --> 01:49:27.637 If there are specific changes to statutory changes 01:49:28.705 --> 01:49:31.191 for people who have already been discharged, 01:49:31.191 --> 01:49:35.024 we need to know what those potential tools are 01:49:35.849 --> 01:49:40.016 that we need to help you get ahead of this problem. 01:49:48.137 --> 01:49:50.220 - Thank you Mr. Chairman. 01:49:50.854 --> 01:49:54.354 Gentlemen, thank you for being here today. 01:49:55.932 --> 01:49:58.765 This is a sad day for the Marine Corps 01:49:58.765 --> 01:50:02.098 and it's a sad day for our armed forces. 01:50:02.419 --> 01:50:05.586 All of us on this committee are agreed 01:50:07.651 --> 01:50:11.568 that the conduct at issue here was despicable. 01:50:12.049 --> 01:50:15.299 That we owe a sacred trust to the women 01:50:15.873 --> 01:50:19.123 and men who join our volunteer military 01:50:19.590 --> 01:50:23.173 and put it all on the line to keep us safe. 01:50:23.240 --> 01:50:26.990 And who find themselves abused and victimized 01:50:31.994 --> 01:50:35.744 by fellow Marines is completely unacceptable. 01:50:41.972 --> 01:50:43.222 I appreciate... 01:50:46.817 --> 01:50:48.417 Your addressing this issue with 01:50:48.417 --> 01:50:51.167 the seriousness that it deserves. 01:50:55.221 --> 01:50:57.971 And my question to each of you... 01:51:00.570 --> 01:51:01.487 Is twofold. 01:51:02.943 --> 01:51:06.860 How do we ensure that this never happens again? 01:51:08.074 --> 01:51:11.241 And what needs to happen so that those 01:51:12.179 --> 01:51:13.807 who violated the rights of their 01:51:13.807 --> 01:51:16.807 fellow Marines are held accountable? 01:51:20.600 --> 01:51:21.433 General? 01:51:26.895 --> 01:51:31.062 - Senator, to ensure that it doesn't happen again, 01:51:31.429 --> 01:51:35.596 we've got to change the way we see each other as Marines. 01:51:38.359 --> 01:51:42.526 And that's not gonna be easy, but it's got to be done. 01:51:43.248 --> 01:51:46.652 I don't know how many people we're dealing with here 01:51:46.652 --> 01:51:50.618 that are in here, some of them maybe, they're just, 01:51:50.618 --> 01:51:52.113 whatever their beliefs are, 01:51:52.113 --> 01:51:54.362 they just happen to be piling on, 01:51:54.362 --> 01:51:57.529 or they're just misguided or ignorant. 01:51:58.132 --> 01:52:01.132 But if they're in this organization, 01:52:01.326 --> 01:52:03.810 they can't participate in this any more. 01:52:03.810 --> 01:52:07.977 So for those, I honestly believe that with leadership 01:52:09.243 --> 01:52:11.737 out there and particularly the Sargent Majors 01:52:11.737 --> 01:52:14.577 and the senior enlisted and the NCOs, this is where, 01:52:14.577 --> 01:52:16.073 they're the ones that have their 01:52:16.073 --> 01:52:19.406 finger on the pulse of the organization. 01:52:20.181 --> 01:52:23.181 And I've got great trust in Marines. 01:52:24.736 --> 01:52:28.653 I've seen what they can do, I know their spirit 01:52:28.955 --> 01:52:32.622 and I don't believe, I just, I may be wrong, 01:52:34.512 --> 01:52:37.116 pray to God I'm not, but I don't believe 01:52:37.116 --> 01:52:40.169 this is indicative of the great majority 01:52:40.169 --> 01:52:43.335 of the Marines that wear this uniform. 01:52:43.335 --> 01:52:46.891 They're gonna solve this, I can't do this myself, 01:52:46.891 --> 01:52:47.973 Sargent Major can't do this. 01:52:47.973 --> 01:52:50.011 We've got to solve this together. 01:52:50.011 --> 01:52:53.094 Now, for those that don't want to be part of that solution, 01:52:53.094 --> 01:52:55.066 then there's got to be accountability. 01:52:55.066 --> 01:52:57.015 And we'll work our way through this, 01:52:57.015 --> 01:52:59.598 but there are, as we discussed, 01:53:04.479 --> 01:53:07.623 we've got to clarify for our leadership 01:53:07.623 --> 01:53:11.790 what their actions can be if this behavior is identified 01:53:12.834 --> 01:53:16.324 and what they can do to hold these people accountable. 01:53:16.324 --> 01:53:17.953 And we're looking at a number of things, 01:53:17.953 --> 01:53:20.225 in addition to what's in the UCMJ. 01:53:20.225 --> 01:53:22.475 So that's our path forward. 01:53:24.384 --> 01:53:25.930 So we've got the training piece, 01:53:25.930 --> 01:53:28.347 that starts at the beginning, 01:53:28.828 --> 01:53:31.092 but it's really a leadership piece, a discussion piece, 01:53:31.092 --> 01:53:33.396 but then in the end, there has to be accountability, 01:53:33.396 --> 01:53:37.527 because, as Senator Graham said, there are those that will, 01:53:37.527 --> 01:53:38.855 they understand what's right and what's wrong 01:53:38.855 --> 01:53:40.211 and there's others, they understand it, 01:53:40.211 --> 01:53:42.277 but they may feel like they have to do this 01:53:42.277 --> 01:53:44.017 and then they're the ones that are going to have 01:53:44.017 --> 01:53:47.017 to be deterred and held accountable. 01:53:48.290 --> 01:53:49.224 - [Cruz] Sargent Major? 01:53:49.224 --> 01:53:50.141 - Yes, sir. 01:53:51.566 --> 01:53:53.198 So we have to build an environment, 01:53:53.198 --> 01:53:56.031 if a Marine walked into any place, 01:53:57.225 --> 01:53:59.794 the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, 01:53:59.794 --> 01:54:01.329 and they already have an idea 01:54:01.329 --> 01:54:03.286 of what that organization does. 01:54:03.286 --> 01:54:05.050 They walk in there and they realize 01:54:05.050 --> 01:54:09.217 that where they're going, the door that they walked through, 01:54:09.256 --> 01:54:11.039 they're not really doing what 01:54:11.039 --> 01:54:13.721 (audio cuts out) when I went in. 01:54:13.721 --> 01:54:17.221 Or what they advertise, then in real life, 01:54:18.170 --> 01:54:19.999 if they're doing something illegal, 01:54:19.999 --> 01:54:22.074 if they're doing something to denigrate, 01:54:22.074 --> 01:54:24.075 disrespect people, I'm going to report it. 01:54:24.075 --> 01:54:27.403 We have to build that environment in our Marine Corps. 01:54:27.403 --> 01:54:30.018 Where they go in the social media world 01:54:30.018 --> 01:54:32.799 and they really understand the meaning of friend. 01:54:32.799 --> 01:54:33.697 Because if you hit the button 01:54:33.697 --> 01:54:36.458 and you give somebody the right as a friend, 01:54:36.458 --> 01:54:40.192 that's not the same meaning as in I meet someone 01:54:40.192 --> 01:54:44.359 and that's the reality of today in the virtual world. 01:54:44.614 --> 01:54:46.622 Just because you tag somebody as a friend, 01:54:46.622 --> 01:54:48.972 that doesn't mean you actually know that person 01:54:48.972 --> 01:54:51.604 and that's not really your friend. 01:54:51.604 --> 01:54:53.417 Some people just learn that day, 01:54:53.417 --> 01:54:55.863 see people, tag them as a friend, let them in, 01:54:55.863 --> 01:54:57.910 not understanding in the social media world, 01:54:57.910 --> 01:54:59.618 everything on your page, 01:54:59.618 --> 01:55:01.984 you've just given them the right to. 01:55:01.984 --> 01:55:03.405 Because they can screenshot it, 01:55:03.405 --> 01:55:06.131 they can do what they want, take it and do what they want. 01:55:06.131 --> 01:55:09.503 And understanding the laws that we have right now today 01:55:09.503 --> 01:55:11.098 that protects an individual. 01:55:11.098 --> 01:55:13.486 We have to explain that to our Marines. 01:55:13.486 --> 01:55:16.903 Our leadership and those that we recruit. 01:55:17.049 --> 01:55:18.632 - [Cruz] Thank you. 01:55:23.132 --> 01:55:25.846 - Thank you (audio cuts out). 01:55:25.846 --> 01:55:27.927 To discuss Marines using social media 01:55:27.927 --> 01:55:31.988 to share intimate photographs of female service members 01:55:31.988 --> 01:55:34.518 and veterans without their consent. 01:55:34.518 --> 01:55:36.812 And it seems like every time we shut down 01:55:36.812 --> 01:55:39.668 one of these websites that a new one pops up. 01:55:39.668 --> 01:55:41.369 General Neller, I appreciated your 01:55:41.369 --> 01:55:43.739 strongly worded message last week, 01:55:43.739 --> 01:55:47.236 but we've already seen that at least one new website 01:55:47.236 --> 01:55:51.403 seems to have appeared in defiance of your guidance. 01:55:51.691 --> 01:55:54.656 We can keep playing digital whack-a-mole, 01:55:54.656 --> 01:55:57.491 but we'll keep losing until we have better tools 01:55:57.491 --> 01:56:00.018 to prosecute those who are responsible. 01:56:00.018 --> 01:56:01.851 So I want to go back to a question about 01:56:01.851 --> 01:56:04.113 the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 01:56:04.113 --> 01:56:06.627 but I want to ask it from a different perspective. 01:56:06.627 --> 01:56:08.461 General Neller, it's my understanding that if the 01:56:08.461 --> 01:56:11.429 original photo was taken consensually, 01:56:11.429 --> 01:56:15.502 the UCMJ may not allow for the strictest penalties 01:56:15.502 --> 01:56:19.419 under article 120C, even if it was subsequently 01:56:20.058 --> 01:56:23.475 shared without consent, is that accurate? 01:56:24.342 --> 01:56:26.925 - Senator, my understanding is, 01:56:27.053 --> 01:56:28.872 as the Sargent Major was discussing, 01:56:28.872 --> 01:56:30.547 if you're on a public facing webpage 01:56:30.547 --> 01:56:33.714 and you post a picture, that in itself 01:56:34.213 --> 01:56:36.463 can be construed as consent 01:56:36.876 --> 01:56:39.339 and if someone else takes that picture 01:56:39.339 --> 01:56:41.381 that there is no criminal action. 01:56:41.381 --> 01:56:43.102 - [Warren] Well, and I just want to get this-- 01:56:43.102 --> 01:56:44.338 - I'm not saying I agree with that, 01:56:44.338 --> 01:56:46.774 but that is an interpretation. 01:56:46.774 --> 01:56:48.179 - So let me ask this question, 01:56:48.179 --> 01:56:50.782 many states have implemented laws that make 01:56:50.782 --> 01:56:54.865 so called revenge pornography a criminal offense. 01:56:55.654 --> 01:56:59.821 Do you believe that we need a change like that to the UCMJ? 01:57:04.263 --> 01:57:06.624 - I think that would be helpful 01:57:06.624 --> 01:57:09.124 in the accountability process. 01:57:10.452 --> 01:57:13.369 But again, and I'm not saying that, 01:57:13.580 --> 01:57:15.259 not all of these pictures, some of these pictures 01:57:15.259 --> 01:57:18.371 of these women where they were fully clothed 01:57:18.371 --> 01:57:20.458 and it's the commentary and all that stuff and that's 01:57:20.458 --> 01:57:22.627 where you get the difficulty. - I understand. 01:57:22.627 --> 01:57:23.563 But part of what we're-- - I do agree. 01:57:23.563 --> 01:57:25.621 - Also talking about are photographs 01:57:25.621 --> 01:57:27.052 that were taken consensually 01:57:27.052 --> 01:57:28.723 and then someone else posted them 01:57:28.723 --> 01:57:30.059 or they were posted in a different 01:57:30.059 --> 01:57:31.546 context and then forwarded. 01:57:31.546 --> 01:57:32.379 - [Neller] That's correct. 01:57:32.379 --> 01:57:34.748 - I know you are committed to pursing this, 01:57:34.748 --> 01:57:36.950 but if we're going to shut down this conduct, 01:57:36.950 --> 01:57:38.543 then you ought to have every possible 01:57:38.543 --> 01:57:40.876 legal tool at your disposal. 01:57:41.016 --> 01:57:43.208 Now, I want to ask you a second question about this. 01:57:43.208 --> 01:57:47.375 Every Marine Corps base maintains a list of places 01:57:47.740 --> 01:57:50.228 that are off limits for service members. 01:57:50.228 --> 01:57:53.676 In 2013, one of your predecessors, General Amos, 01:57:53.676 --> 01:57:56.619 told Congress that the Marines were examining 01:57:56.619 --> 01:57:58.539 whether you could legally make certain 01:57:58.539 --> 01:58:01.539 websites off limits in the same way. 01:58:01.945 --> 01:58:03.404 You can't visit there anymore than you 01:58:03.404 --> 01:58:07.183 can go into town and visit these particular places. 01:58:07.183 --> 01:58:10.662 What was the result of that assessment and do you need 01:58:10.662 --> 01:58:14.412 additional authorities to be able to do that? 01:58:16.905 --> 01:58:20.322 - Senator, I'm not aware and I can take that for the record 01:58:20.322 --> 01:58:23.989 and maybe my SGA can talk to you about that, 01:58:24.581 --> 01:58:27.164 but I'm not aware that we ever, 01:58:27.554 --> 01:58:30.104 because of right of free speech and other things, 01:58:30.104 --> 01:58:32.854 ever placed a website off limits. 01:58:35.128 --> 01:58:38.979 On a government computer, we block certain websites, 01:58:38.979 --> 01:58:42.896 but when someone is on their individual device, 01:58:44.490 --> 01:58:47.083 I'm not aware that we said the following websites 01:58:47.083 --> 01:58:50.374 are off limits and to frequent these sites, 01:58:50.374 --> 01:58:53.455 if we were even able to determine if the Marine had, 01:58:53.455 --> 01:58:56.644 that you would be in violation of a lawful order. 01:58:56.644 --> 01:58:58.592 - I think this may be something 01:58:58.592 --> 01:59:01.257 that may be worth exploring again. 01:59:01.257 --> 01:59:02.906 So that you have the maximum number 01:59:02.906 --> 01:59:06.893 of tools available to you to stop this behavior. 01:59:06.893 --> 01:59:08.993 I have one more that I want to ask 01:59:08.993 --> 01:59:12.007 and that is General Neller, you're not the first 01:59:12.007 --> 01:59:14.265 Commandant to attempt to address this issue 01:59:14.265 --> 01:59:17.219 and in all due respect, it doesn't seem to be working. 01:59:17.219 --> 01:59:20.948 And I think it's because these social media scandals 01:59:20.948 --> 01:59:24.022 are symptoms of a much larger problem. 01:59:24.022 --> 01:59:27.322 It happens in the barracks and it happens in the field 01:59:27.322 --> 01:59:30.652 and it starts as early as basic training. 01:59:30.652 --> 01:59:32.866 Are you willing to reconsider the role 01:59:32.866 --> 01:59:36.078 that Marine recruit training plays in this? 01:59:36.078 --> 01:59:39.411 And reevaluating the Marine Corps policy 01:59:39.608 --> 01:59:42.941 of gender segregation at basic training? 01:59:45.497 --> 01:59:47.956 - Senator, we're taking a very long look 01:59:47.956 --> 01:59:50.596 at how we do recruit training right now. 01:59:50.596 --> 01:59:53.348 I would not couch our recruit training as segregated, 01:59:53.348 --> 01:59:56.041 and I'd at this time, invite you down 01:59:56.041 --> 01:59:58.374 to see how we do what we do. 01:59:58.465 --> 02:00:00.965 - We're not separating men and women anymore in the Marines? 02:00:00.965 --> 02:00:02.825 - All recruits in all the services 02:00:02.825 --> 02:00:06.516 live separately because they live in open squad bays. 02:00:06.516 --> 02:00:09.599 And our training is done by platoons. 02:00:10.277 --> 02:00:12.444 Men and women in platoons. 02:00:12.693 --> 02:00:15.288 A good portion of their training, as we do it now 02:00:15.288 --> 02:00:19.352 at Paris Island, where all our women get trained, 02:00:19.352 --> 02:00:22.059 they do things with male recruits. 02:00:22.059 --> 02:00:25.659 The swimming tank, the rifle range, the crucible, 02:00:25.659 --> 02:00:27.955 the field training, even now, 02:00:27.955 --> 02:00:29.783 their final fitness exams. 02:00:29.783 --> 02:00:32.260 So to say that we're segregated, 02:00:32.260 --> 02:00:34.242 I don't believe is a fair statement. 02:00:34.242 --> 02:00:37.475 But we do do it differently than everybody else. 02:00:37.475 --> 02:00:39.725 That said, we are looking-- 02:00:39.863 --> 02:00:40.838 - Can I just clarify General, 02:00:40.838 --> 02:00:42.356 because I just want to make sure I understand, 02:00:42.356 --> 02:00:43.452 and I'm past my time here, 02:00:43.452 --> 02:00:45.030 but I want to make sure I understand, 02:00:45.030 --> 02:00:48.423 are you saying no activities are segregated 02:00:48.423 --> 02:00:51.071 other than sleeping or are you saying that 02:00:51.071 --> 02:00:53.885 some activities are segregated and some are not? 02:00:53.885 --> 02:00:55.399 - Some are and some are not. 02:00:55.399 --> 02:00:57.576 And we are looking at-- - The question I'm asking 02:00:57.576 --> 02:00:58.850 is whether you want to take another look at that. 02:00:58.850 --> 02:00:59.751 - We are looking at the entire way 02:00:59.751 --> 02:01:02.084 that we do recruit training. 02:01:02.402 --> 02:01:05.265 From how we educate and train our drill instructors 02:01:05.265 --> 02:01:07.848 to how we do the entire program 02:01:07.897 --> 02:01:10.647 of instruction for men and women. 02:01:11.467 --> 02:01:12.300 - Thank you General. 02:01:12.300 --> 02:01:14.784 You know, service members who disrespect their 02:01:14.784 --> 02:01:17.160 fellow service members dishonor the service 02:01:17.160 --> 02:01:20.053 and dishonor our nation and we've got to put an end 02:01:20.053 --> 02:01:24.220 to this conduct, so none of us is here again, thank you. 02:01:27.680 --> 02:01:31.056 - General, I think there's two issues I want to 02:01:31.056 --> 02:01:34.104 talk about during my brief time here. 02:01:34.104 --> 02:01:37.689 The first one is, I want to make sure that you all 02:01:37.689 --> 02:01:41.856 respond to the point that has been made previously, 02:01:42.774 --> 02:01:46.941 the idea that this had to be discovered by a journalist. 02:01:47.166 --> 02:01:49.333 And not discovered by you. 02:01:49.392 --> 02:01:52.725 There is a fundamental flaw in oversight 02:01:53.362 --> 02:01:56.187 in terms of good order and discipline 02:01:56.187 --> 02:01:59.187 and conduct unbecoming if we are not 02:01:59.318 --> 02:02:03.485 ferreting out this kind of ugly, ugly representation 02:02:04.932 --> 02:02:09.099 of the Marine ethos without journalists having to do it. 02:02:10.091 --> 02:02:12.758 So I will look forward to a plan 02:02:13.188 --> 02:02:15.288 and I'm going to ask my colleagues 02:02:15.288 --> 02:02:17.708 to join me in a letter to Secretary Mattis 02:02:17.708 --> 02:02:18.541 because I think this is something 02:02:18.541 --> 02:02:21.131 that needs to be done in all the services. 02:02:21.131 --> 02:02:23.881 What are you all doing internally 02:02:25.023 --> 02:02:27.106 to monitor online conduct 02:02:29.106 --> 02:02:32.092 that is related to active service members? 02:02:32.092 --> 02:02:35.759 And how are you addressing that in terms of, 02:02:35.774 --> 02:02:39.524 not just the vitriol that was on these sites, 02:02:40.102 --> 02:02:44.269 but also cyber bullying that could be impacting morale. 02:02:45.549 --> 02:02:48.882 And I want to get to the bottom of that. 02:02:48.951 --> 02:02:50.886 The second one is accountability. 02:02:50.886 --> 02:02:53.812 Now, I'm gonna tell you a brief story 02:02:53.812 --> 02:02:57.143 and that is when I was a prosecutor in Kansas City, 02:02:57.143 --> 02:02:59.396 I wanted to do more on domestic violence 02:02:59.396 --> 02:03:01.784 and the detectives came to me and they said, 02:03:01.784 --> 02:03:03.899 "Well Senator, you have," I wasn't a senator then, 02:03:03.899 --> 02:03:06.929 "Prosecutor, you need to understand that 02:03:06.929 --> 02:03:09.493 "many times the victim doesn't want to cooperate. 02:03:09.493 --> 02:03:13.007 "And if we don't have a victim, we can't prosecute." 02:03:13.007 --> 02:03:17.174 And I said, well, let's shut down the homicide unit then. 02:03:17.584 --> 02:03:19.905 Because we don't have victims in homicide 02:03:19.905 --> 02:03:22.272 and we figure out a way to make the case. 02:03:22.272 --> 02:03:25.939 And I bring that up because for 134 and 133, 02:03:27.086 --> 02:03:30.460 conduct unbecoming and good order and discipline, 02:03:30.460 --> 02:03:33.528 it doesn't matter if the victims cooperate. 02:03:33.528 --> 02:03:37.445 If you can prove that this was an active Marine 02:03:37.624 --> 02:03:41.100 and they went online and said these things 02:03:41.100 --> 02:03:44.734 and referred to fellow Marines in this manner, 02:03:44.734 --> 02:03:48.231 then, I mean, the prosecutor in me tells me 02:03:48.231 --> 02:03:50.416 that you've got a prima facie case. 02:03:50.416 --> 02:03:52.446 And I know you can't comment on that 02:03:52.446 --> 02:03:54.254 because of undue influence, 02:03:54.254 --> 02:03:58.371 but I just want to point out that it's very important 02:03:58.371 --> 02:04:02.464 to understand that accountability is possible here 02:04:02.464 --> 02:04:05.797 even if the survivors are not interested 02:04:05.944 --> 02:04:10.111 in coming forward to be quote, unquote, part of the case. 02:04:10.356 --> 02:04:13.356 Could you acknowledge that, General? 02:04:15.014 --> 02:04:17.931 - Senator, I understand your point. 02:04:19.042 --> 02:04:21.368 That would though, and again, no excuse, 02:04:21.368 --> 02:04:24.339 but it would require us to be out there, 02:04:24.339 --> 02:04:27.839 we surveil our network for people that are 02:04:31.669 --> 02:04:34.247 passing information, we look for malware, 02:04:34.247 --> 02:04:36.817 we do a lot of things and that's why 02:04:36.817 --> 02:04:38.601 Major General Reynolds is behind me. 02:04:38.601 --> 02:04:41.268 She's our Marforcyber commander. 02:04:41.950 --> 02:04:46.117 Our ability to look at all these potential websites 02:04:46.586 --> 02:04:50.753 where there is this kind of nefarious, disgusting behavior, 02:04:53.602 --> 02:04:56.202 I mean, it kind of goes to the point of, there's a certain, 02:04:56.202 --> 02:05:00.321 where it's the right of the Marine to express free speech 02:05:00.321 --> 02:05:02.286 and where does it go into an illegal action? 02:05:02.286 --> 02:05:03.119 - [McCaskill] I get that. 02:05:03.119 --> 02:05:05.221 - And so our ability to monitor that, 02:05:05.221 --> 02:05:08.514 we're having that discussion now and I take your point. 02:05:08.514 --> 02:05:09.748 - And I think it's really important 02:05:09.748 --> 02:05:12.075 and we can talk about this in closed session more, 02:05:12.075 --> 02:05:14.029 it's not something that has to be in closed session, 02:05:14.029 --> 02:05:17.039 but NCIS is the one that I want to talk to about it, 02:05:17.039 --> 02:05:21.206 this is really, we have detectives all over this nation 02:05:21.683 --> 02:05:24.516 that are posing as bad guys online 02:05:25.595 --> 02:05:29.487 to catch horrible people that are trafficking children 02:05:29.487 --> 02:05:32.382 and doing other illegal activities. 02:05:32.382 --> 02:05:36.357 It would not be hard for someone to pose as an active Marine 02:05:36.357 --> 02:05:39.440 looking for a spot where they can see 02:05:39.468 --> 02:05:43.125 what these guys were obviously interested in looking at. 02:05:43.125 --> 02:05:44.997 This is something that you could do 02:05:44.997 --> 02:05:48.808 on a random basis and once it's known that that's out there, 02:05:48.808 --> 02:05:51.533 it is amazing the deterrent effect that that would have 02:05:51.533 --> 02:05:54.725 in terms of this being seen as acceptable. 02:05:54.725 --> 02:05:58.892 I also want to say that I think this accountability piece, 02:05:59.373 --> 02:06:01.502 you know, there's crimes you can deter 02:06:01.502 --> 02:06:03.893 and there's crimes you can't deter. 02:06:03.893 --> 02:06:06.476 I guarantee you, you throw some 02:06:06.985 --> 02:06:09.652 Marines out of the Marine Corps, 02:06:11.230 --> 02:06:13.146 you say you are no longer welcome here 02:06:13.146 --> 02:06:17.041 and you are dishonorably discharged for this behavior, 02:06:17.041 --> 02:06:18.616 you do that in a high profile way, 02:06:18.616 --> 02:06:20.311 and obviously I don't want you to comment, 02:06:20.311 --> 02:06:22.952 because I don't want to get into undue influence territory, 02:06:22.952 --> 02:06:24.699 but let me just say for the record, 02:06:24.699 --> 02:06:28.866 if you go after the active Marines that you have evidence on 02:06:30.457 --> 02:06:32.792 and if they are dishonorably discharged, 02:06:32.792 --> 02:06:36.959 that will begin to send a signal that many of us up here 02:06:37.090 --> 02:06:39.590 are desperate for you to send. 02:06:40.666 --> 02:06:42.458 And then I would close, Mr. Chairman, 02:06:42.458 --> 02:06:46.625 just by pointing out that there has been some progress made. 02:06:47.776 --> 02:06:51.888 The 2014 SAPRO survey was cited by Senator Gillibrand, 02:06:51.888 --> 02:06:53.436 I do want to say that in 2015, 02:06:53.436 --> 02:06:57.212 I want to say this for all the survivors out there, 02:06:57.212 --> 02:07:01.379 77% of the survivors that were surveyed in 2015, 02:07:02.502 --> 02:07:06.218 recommended that other survivors come forward. 02:07:06.218 --> 02:07:10.385 So that is a positive that we are having that increase 02:07:10.867 --> 02:07:13.119 in numbers of survivors advising 02:07:13.119 --> 02:07:14.389 other survivors to come forward 02:07:14.389 --> 02:07:16.895 and I wanted to get that publicly on the record today 02:07:16.895 --> 02:07:20.191 so survivors out there in this incident hear that 02:07:20.191 --> 02:07:23.310 those who are coming forward who now have services 02:07:23.310 --> 02:07:25.168 and support available to them, 02:07:25.168 --> 02:07:29.335 can expect a more positive experience as we all try 02:07:29.682 --> 02:07:32.311 to hold these jerks accountable. 02:07:32.311 --> 02:07:34.311 And jerk is a kind word. 02:07:34.452 --> 02:07:36.452 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 02:07:38.162 --> 02:07:41.829 - Senator McCaskill has her usual reticence. 02:07:42.260 --> 02:07:44.411 I thank you for your passion, 02:07:44.411 --> 02:07:47.074 I thank you for your involvement in this issue 02:07:47.074 --> 02:07:50.657 for many years and many of us do appreciate 02:07:51.570 --> 02:07:55.147 your commitment, Senator McCaskill, thank you. 02:07:55.147 --> 02:07:56.397 Senator Peters? 02:07:56.846 --> 02:07:58.990 - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 02:07:58.990 --> 02:08:02.021 I have to agree with my colleagues up here 02:08:02.021 --> 02:08:04.882 that today is indeed a very sad day 02:08:04.882 --> 02:08:06.916 for the Marine Corps and for our services. 02:08:06.916 --> 02:08:10.131 We are without question discussing absolutely 02:08:10.131 --> 02:08:12.186 reprehensible behavior that needs 02:08:12.186 --> 02:08:14.398 to be aggressively dealt with 02:08:14.398 --> 02:08:16.954 and it has to be dealt with immediately. 02:08:16.954 --> 02:08:18.356 And I know General Neller, 02:08:18.356 --> 02:08:22.018 you know the entire country is watching today 02:08:22.018 --> 02:08:24.751 and although I appreciate your strong words, 02:08:24.751 --> 02:08:28.047 I know that you know that we also need strong action. 02:08:28.047 --> 02:08:31.857 Words will not be (audio cuts out). 02:08:31.857 --> 02:08:33.222 In my experience with you, I know that that's 02:08:33.222 --> 02:08:36.882 the type of leader you are and we'll be working with you 02:08:36.882 --> 02:08:39.861 in any way that we can to be helpful to you. 02:08:39.861 --> 02:08:41.981 My colleagues have made some very important points 02:08:41.981 --> 02:08:44.707 regarding culture in the Marine Corps. 02:08:44.707 --> 02:08:46.564 I want to build on that and specifically 02:08:46.564 --> 02:08:48.498 talk a little bit about recruit training, 02:08:48.498 --> 02:08:49.763 which has been brought up. 02:08:49.763 --> 02:08:52.519 Particularly though at Paris Island. 02:08:52.519 --> 02:08:54.489 As all of the witnesses here know, 02:08:54.489 --> 02:08:56.390 Marine Corps recruits from the Eastern half 02:08:56.390 --> 02:08:59.275 of the United States, including my state of Michigan, 02:08:59.275 --> 02:09:02.212 as well as all female recruits attend basic training 02:09:02.212 --> 02:09:04.581 at Paris Island in South Carolina. 02:09:04.581 --> 02:09:07.524 And without question, basic training is the place 02:09:07.524 --> 02:09:10.221 where the Marine Corps instills its core values 02:09:10.221 --> 02:09:11.606 and a Marine is always a Marine, 02:09:11.606 --> 02:09:13.703 and so those are values that stay with that 02:09:13.703 --> 02:09:16.424 individual for their entire life. 02:09:16.424 --> 02:09:18.971 Last year, the Marine Corps completed three command level 02:09:18.971 --> 02:09:22.516 investigations into hazing and abuse of recruits 02:09:22.516 --> 02:09:26.007 and even hazing among drill instructors at Paris Island. 02:09:26.007 --> 02:09:28.580 Allegations include the targeted hazing of recruits 02:09:28.580 --> 02:09:31.805 for their ethnic background or religious beliefs, 02:09:31.805 --> 02:09:33.772 including a Muslim recruit who was placed 02:09:33.772 --> 02:09:37.524 in an industrial clothes dryer multiple times. 02:09:37.524 --> 02:09:40.834 A separate Muslim recruit from my state of Michigan, 02:09:40.834 --> 02:09:43.565 died at Paris Island by jumping over a stairwell 02:09:43.565 --> 02:09:47.732 after enuring abuse by the Marines entrusted to train him. 02:09:48.170 --> 02:09:50.160 The command investigation into the recruit's death 02:09:50.160 --> 02:09:54.192 found that, "Maltreatment by his drill instructor team, 02:09:54.192 --> 02:09:57.077 "leadership failures at multiple levels of command, 02:09:57.077 --> 02:09:59.301 "and administrative and process failures 02:09:59.301 --> 02:10:01.177 "contributed to his death." 02:10:01.177 --> 02:10:03.673 The investigation also found a senior drill instructor 02:10:03.673 --> 02:10:06.680 at Paris Island taught subordinate drill instructors to, 02:10:06.680 --> 02:10:10.013 "hate recruits," in order to train them. 02:10:12.020 --> 02:10:15.006 And I'm very concerned that the poor practices 02:10:15.006 --> 02:10:17.574 in the training of Marine recruits at Paris Island, 02:10:17.574 --> 02:10:19.158 as a result of some of these instances, 02:10:19.158 --> 02:10:22.087 may have contributed to some of the inexcusable behavior 02:10:22.087 --> 02:10:24.420 that we're discussing today. 02:10:24.575 --> 02:10:25.859 As you know, General Neller, 02:10:25.859 --> 02:10:28.007 respect is a fundamental core value. 02:10:28.007 --> 02:10:31.520 Respect for every aspect of that individual. 02:10:31.520 --> 02:10:34.052 So I know you have referenced a comprehensive review 02:10:34.052 --> 02:10:37.580 of recruit training, but could you let the panel know 02:10:37.580 --> 02:10:39.904 what will the scope of this review be, 02:10:39.904 --> 02:10:43.611 how it will be conducted and has it already resulted in some 02:10:43.611 --> 02:10:47.778 corrective actions in recruit training at Paris Island? 02:10:50.380 --> 02:10:53.297 - Senator, after the investigation, 02:10:53.474 --> 02:10:55.867 we sat down and went through and looked at 02:10:55.867 --> 02:10:58.656 what was going on at recruit training. 02:10:58.656 --> 02:11:01.830 And what we found was that we had rules and regulations, 02:11:01.830 --> 02:11:04.991 but there was a failure in leadership and in supervision. 02:11:04.991 --> 02:11:08.440 So we've done a number of things to clarify 02:11:08.440 --> 02:11:11.204 what the rules were, what they weren't. 02:11:11.204 --> 02:11:13.814 We've increased the supervision at the recruit depots 02:11:13.814 --> 02:11:15.937 by increasing the number of officers, 02:11:15.937 --> 02:11:17.109 we've gone back to look at 02:11:17.109 --> 02:11:20.026 how we train our drill instructors. 02:11:21.078 --> 02:11:25.245 There were some practices that had crept in over time 02:11:25.617 --> 02:11:28.411 that were not in compliance with the orders. 02:11:28.411 --> 02:11:30.631 There were a number of officers, 02:11:30.631 --> 02:11:33.572 to include a battalion and regimental commander 02:11:33.572 --> 02:11:36.479 who were relieved due to their inability 02:11:36.479 --> 02:11:38.576 to maintain good order and discipline 02:11:38.576 --> 02:11:41.362 and follow the rules and regulations. 02:11:41.362 --> 02:11:44.598 The individuals that you mentioned, plus others, 02:11:44.598 --> 02:11:47.482 are in the process of going through the 02:11:47.482 --> 02:11:50.374 military justice system and I'll leave it at that. 02:11:50.374 --> 02:11:53.465 And you probably will have read or hear about 02:11:53.465 --> 02:11:57.632 where they are within that process in the next few weeks. 02:11:59.460 --> 02:12:02.043 So with this, and I hate to say 02:12:03.616 --> 02:12:06.449 that this provided an opportunity, 02:12:06.804 --> 02:12:09.721 but again, to look back at, OK, so, 02:12:09.894 --> 02:12:13.227 how does this, this doesn't happen here. 02:12:13.605 --> 02:12:15.272 It starts somewhere. 02:12:16.033 --> 02:12:19.225 And so we are in the process and we're already 02:12:19.225 --> 02:12:20.917 in the process of going back 02:12:20.917 --> 02:12:23.029 and talking to drill instructors about 02:12:23.029 --> 02:12:27.196 what it is to lead, what it is to coach, teach, mentor. 02:12:28.047 --> 02:12:30.073 We've got a number of things we're looking at 02:12:30.073 --> 02:12:32.388 and we've already implemented as far as 02:12:32.388 --> 02:12:34.221 changing the attitude. 02:12:34.874 --> 02:12:36.002 The commanding generals that are there 02:12:36.002 --> 02:12:40.169 at both San Diego and Paris Island are all in with this. 02:12:40.219 --> 02:12:43.552 They understand what we're trying to do. 02:12:44.209 --> 02:12:47.209 And I think they're making progress. 02:12:47.517 --> 02:12:50.850 But we have to prove that we've changed. 02:12:51.153 --> 02:12:54.011 So I agree with you that part of this, 02:12:54.011 --> 02:12:57.505 part of what has to change at the recruit training 02:12:57.505 --> 02:13:00.076 and at officer candidate school is a discussion 02:13:00.076 --> 02:13:03.159 of how we view each other as Marines. 02:13:03.381 --> 02:13:06.964 Whatever our race, our gender, or whatever. 02:13:07.936 --> 02:13:11.849 Because that's where you learn what right looks like. 02:13:11.849 --> 02:13:14.432 And so we're in the middle of that. 02:13:14.432 --> 02:13:16.121 I believe we have a plan. 02:13:16.121 --> 02:13:19.038 It's not going to change overnight, 02:13:19.091 --> 02:13:21.174 but it's going to change. 02:13:21.366 --> 02:13:25.283 I'm confident of that and we will correct this. 02:13:27.385 --> 02:13:31.552 And if there are others that don't want to follow the rules, 02:13:32.634 --> 02:13:34.521 they'll be held accountable. 02:13:34.521 --> 02:13:37.308 So I believe we're headed in the right direction there, 02:13:37.308 --> 02:13:40.225 but again, you want to see results, 02:13:42.346 --> 02:13:45.037 I'm responsible to give you those results 02:13:45.037 --> 02:13:47.311 and it's not going to happen overnight, 02:13:47.311 --> 02:13:49.715 but again, I would ask and invite you to come down 02:13:49.715 --> 02:13:52.397 to see what we do at Paris Island or San Diego 02:13:52.397 --> 02:13:55.142 and see some of your Michigan Marines. 02:13:55.142 --> 02:13:59.309 Because I believe we've got it, we're on the right path. 02:14:00.090 --> 02:14:00.923 - [Peters] Thank you General. 02:14:00.923 --> 02:14:04.953 - Secretary Stackley, thank you for your appearance today. 02:14:04.953 --> 02:14:08.620 And thank you fro your input as we recognize 02:14:09.493 --> 02:14:12.910 the civilian stewardship of our military. 02:14:14.613 --> 02:14:18.780 Sargent Major Green, your leadership is probably now 02:14:19.868 --> 02:14:23.439 more necessary than most times in the past, 02:14:23.439 --> 02:14:27.022 as we repair the damage that has been done. 02:14:28.477 --> 02:14:31.477 And to put in the proper perspective 02:14:32.171 --> 02:14:34.588 that this is a terrible thing 02:14:35.331 --> 02:14:38.952 and from time to time these things have happened. 02:14:38.952 --> 02:14:41.282 But at the same time, we recognize 02:14:41.282 --> 02:14:43.548 the United States Marine Corps 02:14:43.548 --> 02:14:46.846 and their service and sacrifice that is going on today, 02:14:46.846 --> 02:14:50.763 as we speak, and we don't want to ever diminish 02:14:51.738 --> 02:14:55.069 that service and sacrifice that they have made. 02:14:55.069 --> 02:14:59.236 General Neller, you came before this committee with candor. 02:14:59.959 --> 02:15:04.126 We are now, I believe, embarked thanks to your testimony 02:15:04.495 --> 02:15:08.662 and your commitment on an effort that may take a long time. 02:15:10.234 --> 02:15:13.616 But I think this hearing was an important beginning 02:15:13.616 --> 02:15:15.960 to fixing a problem that apparently 02:15:15.960 --> 02:15:18.995 has been out there for some period of time. 02:15:18.995 --> 02:15:21.772 I believe you're facing it head on 02:15:21.772 --> 02:15:25.103 and the one request I have from this committee 02:15:25.103 --> 02:15:27.520 is that you keep us informed. 02:15:27.729 --> 02:15:30.661 Not only the progress that you make, 02:15:30.661 --> 02:15:33.519 but in the challenges that you face. 02:15:33.519 --> 02:15:35.188 Because we are looking at a new 02:15:35.188 --> 02:15:38.771 form of communication amongst our citizens. 02:15:38.969 --> 02:15:41.046 And it's called the internet. 02:15:41.046 --> 02:15:44.629 And as I mentioned in my opening statement, 02:15:44.741 --> 02:15:46.847 it's provided knowledge and information 02:15:46.847 --> 02:15:50.115 in a way that's never been available before. 02:15:50.115 --> 02:15:52.115 There's also a dark side 02:15:52.377 --> 02:15:55.593 and we're looking at the dark side today. 02:15:55.593 --> 02:15:57.558 And we're going to look forward to you 02:15:57.558 --> 02:16:00.891 and Secretary Stackley's recommendations 02:16:00.926 --> 02:16:05.009 if it's necessary to pass additional legislation. 02:16:05.751 --> 02:16:07.862 We cherish the right of all citizens 02:16:07.862 --> 02:16:10.112 to have a right of privacy. 02:16:10.243 --> 02:16:14.410 But I think when we're seeing this kind of outrageous 02:16:15.793 --> 02:16:19.710 and offensive behavior, then we need to provide 02:16:19.952 --> 02:16:22.786 some protection to our fellow citizens 02:16:22.786 --> 02:16:26.869 and those who have served our country with honor. 02:16:27.968 --> 02:16:31.061 Because when we do something like this, 02:16:31.061 --> 02:16:33.561 we harm the reputation of all. 02:16:34.237 --> 02:16:35.987 A few have done that. 02:16:36.296 --> 02:16:38.999 And it's our obligation to try to see 02:16:38.999 --> 02:16:41.657 that this kind of thing is not repeated. 02:16:41.657 --> 02:16:42.740 Senator Reed? 02:16:43.131 --> 02:16:45.192 - Mr. Chairman, I simply want to concur 02:16:45.192 --> 02:16:47.161 and thank you for holding this hearing. 02:16:47.161 --> 02:16:49.656 It's been very important and it'll be a foundation 02:16:49.656 --> 02:16:53.489 for further work by all the military services, 02:16:54.682 --> 02:16:57.416 not just the Marine Corps, all the military services 02:16:57.416 --> 02:16:59.228 and this congress to get it right. 02:16:59.228 --> 02:17:02.321 - We will meet in 10 minutes in Russel 220 02:17:02.321 --> 02:17:06.058 to continue this conversation in classified setting. 02:17:06.058 --> 02:17:06.975 Thank you.