WEBVTT

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And thank you to everyone who shared

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their story with us today . Uh , we're

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now going to move into our , uh , main

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program . The first , uh , presentation

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is called A Day in the Life of a

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Recovery Team , and we have with us ,

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um , Captain Montana Banks , who will

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facilitate the discussion with the team

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leaders . We have a team leader , team

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sergeant , and a , uh , scientific

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recovery leader to speak with you today .

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Montana .

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Good morning , everyone . Welcome to

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today's brief , a day in the life of a

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recovery team . As you all know ,

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DPAA's mission is to provide the

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fullest possible accounting for our

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missing personnel to you , their

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families , and to the nation . Today ,

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we have the privilege of getting an

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inside look at how that mission is

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accomplished in the field . Please join

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me in welcoming our briefers , Captain

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Patrick Anderson , Sergeant Marcel

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Cavor , and Ms . Allie Campo .

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Team , can you please take a minute to

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share a little bit about yourselves ?

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Hi , everyone . My name is Allie Campo .

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I am a forensic archaeologist with the

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laboratory . Um , I've been with the

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agency over 9 years . I've done 16

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missions and it is such an honor to be

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here . I also love talking , so I hope

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you're ready to talk story as we say in

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Hawaii . So it's exciting to be with

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all of you . Morning , everyone . I'm

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Captain Anderson . I'm a captain of the

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US Army . I've been with EPA for 3

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years now and been on 10 missions .

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Happy to be here .

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Good morning , everyone . Microphone ,

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it wasn't working . Good morning

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everyone . I'm Sergeant First Class

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Cavvo . Um , I've been with EPA for 2.5

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years , and I really love the mission

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that we do . I really love what we are

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here , what our job means for all of

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you .

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Thank you all for sharing your

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backgrounds . Now , let's turn to the

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mission itself . The team will be

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guiding us through the entire process

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from the moment they arrive at the

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potential site to the journey home .

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Captain Anderson , a recovery mission

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often begins long before any digging

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starts . Can you describe what's

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involved in getting the team and

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equipment to these often remote

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locations ? Absolutely . So as Camp Bas

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mentioned , we go to some very austere

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and remote locations , uh , typically ,

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and we bring a lot of stuff with us so

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that a lot of planning and logistics

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goes into that , and that means we go

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in on C-17 sometimes , that might be in

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helicopters , it might be boats , and

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or it could be just hiking up in the

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mountains . You see a picture here in

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Korea , top left , that's us hiking to

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a site and an example of the

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mountaineering . So it doesn't matter

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where our missing are , we're gonna do

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everything possible to go get them .

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Thank you . Once you're on the ground ,

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the next critical phase is the site

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survey . Ali , as a scientific recovery

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expert , what are you looking for and

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how do you map out the area of

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operations ? Great question . So

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when we are provided some information ,

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we're looking for a spot on the ground .

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So I just wanna reference in these

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photos the top right is some shovel

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test pit survey surveying we're doing

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and also we do some underwater work as

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well . So I'll kind of reference those

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if you hit the next one . So I like to

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think of it as kind of like a flow

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chart . When I go out there , I'm using

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the witnesses or I'm using any form of

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the information we have already , maybe

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wartime imagery to really lead the

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excavation or I'm sorry , the

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investigation work to begin with . So I

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kind of start with I want the ground to

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prove it to me , you know , where in

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this crash site or where in this

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potential burial am I the most likely

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to find the individual ? So you gotta

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start with , is there anything even

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here ? All right , if I do , like

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what's . Take a crash site . If I'm

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finding some form of wreckage , that's

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a good start . The next question is ,

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is this even a US loss ? Because

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sometimes , like my work in PNG , Papua

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New Guinea , we have found Japanese

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losses . We found Australian losses .

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So if I could say yes , this is

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definitively a USAmerican loss , then I

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go to the next question . And is there

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anyone on board ? Is this an

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operational loss ? If it's an F4 , is

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there any evidence that somebody was on

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board or did everyone eject ? And then

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from there , I'm gonna say , where in

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the crash site or where in this burial

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is the actual individual . So I'm using

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locational wreckage to try to get and

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say , when an excavation team comes out ,

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start right here . That's gonna be hit

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the ground running . Thank you . After

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the survey , you have to establish a

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base of operations . Sergeant Cavoor ,

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what goes into the site set up ? It

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looks like you're often building an

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entire camp from the ground up . We are .

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There are , there's a lot of

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infrastructure that's needed for us to

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be able to do our mission , everything

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from a screening site where we can do

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either dry screening or wet screening .

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At this point we have to run pumps ,

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locate a water source . We also try to

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build , you know , a break area for our

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own team and also for any . Other

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support teams that we might have a lot

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of times we have local officials or

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local workers , so we provide them a

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break area as well , uh , and we also

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have a specific area for the SRE to be

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able to review any , any , any of the

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items that we find and also our life

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support , uh , investigator who is the

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person that specializes on the life

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support equipment aboard an aircraft ,

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he will have an area where they can do

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all their research and look and see

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what it is that we found and identify

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it . Great . Thank you . Now we get to

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the heart of the mission , excavation .

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Allie , this isn't just digging holes .

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Can you explain the careful and varied

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techniques the team uses , whether on

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land , underwater , or on a steep

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mountainside ? Yes , so we chose these

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uh photos specifically because on the

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left side you're gonna see the two

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types of excavation work we do

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terrestrially . So you have either

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mechanical excavation or manual

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excavation just by hand . So it's

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really site dependent . As you can

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imagine , people did not crash or they

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weren't in the ground losses in areas

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that were super convenient to reach .

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So we kind of have to lead us in what

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type of methods we use for where they

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are . If it's an underwater loss , a

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lot of times we're using . Uh , remote

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operating vehicles and then ground

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truthing as well and so it looks a

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little bit different , um , but in the

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middle here this is a site that I

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worked in Laos so you might have to

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tear stuff in if there's a crash crater .

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If it's more surface loss then you have

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to dig kind of less deep but across

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more area and then a lot of times if

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you're in areas with trees you're

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having to get on in all those root

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networks , make sure you're not missing

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anything . And so the top right hand

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photo is basically you're setting . A

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grid , so you need to know where

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everything is coming out of a crash

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site or out of a burial . So we're very

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specific so we know where to dig next .

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And then underwater , often we have to

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do stuff like dredging . So we can

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actually do no vis locations as we call

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it . So they use a dredge and they're

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using a , that's actually steel frame

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for units and they can go and do it

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without any visuals and that allows us

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to bring it back up and then we'll

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screen through everything we find from

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there . Thank you . Every bucket of

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dirt is important . Sergeant Kavor , a

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huge part of the process is screening .

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Can you walk us through what's

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happening here and why it's so critical ?

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So anything that comes out of the

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ground . Could have , uh , human

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remains and we're looking for human

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remains that can be as little as a

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little thumbnail , so it's very

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important that any ounce or any piece

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of dirt that comes out of the ground

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gets put in a bucket and gets

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transported to a screening area where

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we can have , you know , we can go

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through it . Ideally if we can , we're

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gonna wanna use wet screening . It

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allows us to go through a lot more dirt .

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It allows the process to go a lot

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faster , you know , we're doing a

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mission that can be anywhere from 30

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days all the way to . 90 days and

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believe it or not it's still not enough

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to go through , you know , everything

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that comes out of the ground to be able

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to actually screen everything . Let me ,

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I digress , let me go back to screening .

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So we get every ounce of dirt from the

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ground and we try to screen and we try

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to locate as many items as we can . In

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the end what we end up finding is a lot

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of , uh , equipment pieces , pieces of

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aircraft , and so forth . So we're

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always looking for that one piece that

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might identify the loss . This

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is the moment all the hard work leads

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to . Ali , what is the protocol when

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the team finds something that might be

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evidence or remains ? So the first step

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I'm looking at is what can it tell me

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about the loss ? Can it tell me where

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I'm , if I'm in the right spot . So if

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it's anything like a data plate , maybe

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I'm trying to look at that to make sure

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it's the right aircraft we're looking

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after . If it's something like , um ,

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identification media , that's

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incredible , often has a name on us ,

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helps us know that we're in the right

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place . But often for the human aspect

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of it , whenever I find something super

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meaningful , if we do find remains .

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That's usually when I have a moment , I

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pause and I bring the team over and I

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kind of address to them the importance

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of that moment , that this is who we're

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here to look for and what that'll mean

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to the families and all of you in one

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day . And so it's really a nice way to

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kind of bring it back to it all . And

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this photo in the bottom right-hand

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corner , so this was actually uh during

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a little bit of survey work we did , we

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found the boot sole and from there we

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actually ended up finding the remains

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of that service service member , so .

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It's , it's all telling the story .

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It's all a puzzle piece . Thank you .

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This work is incredibly demanding on a

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personal level . I'll open this up to

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all of you . Could you touch on the day

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to day realities of life in the field ?

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OK , so I'm gonna relate , uh , a

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little bit of an experience . I had a

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mission about 1 year ago in Vietnam and

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we were , we spent about 40 days on top

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of a mountain . We got , uh , taken up

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on top of the mountain by helicopter

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and we were living up there and working

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up there and every day . After work you

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wanted to go to the bathroom and after

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you came back to your little hooch you

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gotta make sure that there were no

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leeches on your legs or any in any part

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of your body and it's just one of those

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little inconveniences of field life and

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you know Southeast Asia and other

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austere places like that . Uh , this

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bottom right hand photo , so I have

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spent , uh , multiple birthdays in

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Southeast Asia given , um , the time

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frame when we have missions , and so

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the actual hotel staff ended up

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throwing me a birthday party by

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surprise . So I thought that was a

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pretty cool opportunity , but I did

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just get back from Laos where I spent a

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month living out of a tent , so it's ,

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you know , you got a little camping to

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love this job , but , um , yeah , it's

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always an experience . But you know

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sometimes it's not that bad . Sometimes

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we do , uh , get to work on a site that

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is near a town or near a little city

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that has a nice hotel , and then it can

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be pretty nice when you're not at work .

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You're actually sleeping in a nice air

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conditioned room with your own bed and

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a bathroom . Well , it just doesn't

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work that way every time . And then ,

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uh , for here , so this individual on

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the top , that was my life support

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investigator on a mission in Laos . I

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have found not one but 2 500 pound

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bombs while on site . Uh , so this one

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actually stopped work . They removed it

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from site and then they detonated it

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off location and the next day we

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actually went and stood in the crater

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of it . So just to give you a

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perspective of that there are some

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risks involved with unexploded ordnance ,

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but they always keep us safe out there .

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This is also from my missions . Uh , so

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this was in Vietnam . So this one in

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particular , these photos were only

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taken 15 minutes apart , um , back up

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on the right side , back up in the

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background area , that's actually where

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the site was . So you can imagine the ,

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what that does when you have a whole

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water flow that's bringing stuff down

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from the aircraft site . So this is a

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big drainage area , so kind of to give

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you a perspective of some of the

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challenges that weather has on the work

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we do . Thank you . After weeks or

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months of work , the time comes to

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leave . Allie , what's involved in

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closing an excavation site ? It must be

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as much work as setting it up . It's a ,

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it's a breakdown process . Um , there's

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two things I kind of wanted to explain

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if you have any fieldwork related to

12:57.034 --> 12:58.979
your case is we call it suspension

12:58.979 --> 13:01.146
versus closing . So if you suspend the

13:01.146 --> 13:03.368
site , that just means that we are done

13:03.368 --> 13:05.590
with that , um , activity , and we will

13:05.590 --> 13:07.590
be returning cause it's open . It's

13:07.590 --> 13:07.544
still work to do . But then there's

13:07.544 --> 13:10.104
closing , and the closing means that we

13:10.104 --> 13:12.271
will not be coming back to that . That

13:12.271 --> 13:14.437
lead is kind of coming to a close . We

13:14.437 --> 13:16.660
take that very seriously because I have

13:16.660 --> 13:18.826
to be the one to tell that family that

13:18.826 --> 13:20.993
I closed that site and that that's not

13:20.993 --> 13:23.215
a potential anymore , so we do not take

13:23.215 --> 13:25.437
that lightly , um , yeah . So one other

13:25.437 --> 13:27.437
thing we'd like to highlight is the

13:27.437 --> 13:29.660
fact that you know . The these missions

13:29.660 --> 13:31.660
are very complex and sometimes even

13:31.660 --> 13:33.771
though we know the general area where

13:33.771 --> 13:35.771
somebody was lost , that means that

13:35.771 --> 13:37.715
could mean sometimes as many as 15

13:37.715 --> 13:39.826
missions to that same site . It could

13:39.826 --> 13:42.119
be a mix of about 5 to 6 investigative

13:42.119 --> 13:45.880
missions and about 6789 or 10 recovery

13:45.880 --> 13:47.880
missions , you know , we're talking

13:47.880 --> 13:49.936
about football field size and bigger

13:49.936 --> 13:51.991
sizes that we're looking for , so it

13:51.991 --> 13:54.047
means multiple , multiple , multiple

13:54.047 --> 13:55.991
missions , which is why what she's

13:55.991 --> 13:58.324
talking about suspending versus closing .

13:58.324 --> 14:00.491
Thanks for the context . I tend to get

14:00.491 --> 14:02.547
ahead of myself , but , um , some of

14:02.547 --> 14:02.510
these sites down on the bottom , so

14:02.510 --> 14:04.659
this is often what we do when we are

14:04.659 --> 14:06.940
finishing for that field activity . We

14:06.940 --> 14:09.051
end up roping it off to show the area

14:09.051 --> 14:11.107
we've excavated . Um , it allows the

14:11.107 --> 14:13.162
next team going back or allows us to

14:13.162 --> 14:15.273
report on what we've done so far . So

14:15.273 --> 14:17.273
kind of wrapping it up for the time

14:17.273 --> 14:21.049
being . Thank you . Beyond the

14:21.049 --> 14:22.993
physical work , a huge part of the

14:22.993 --> 14:25.216
mission's success depends on the people

14:25.216 --> 14:27.382
you work with . Captain Anderson , can

14:27.382 --> 14:29.605
you speak to the importance of building

14:29.605 --> 14:29.369
relationships with local partners in

14:29.369 --> 14:31.609
the community ? Absolutely . So we work

14:31.609 --> 14:33.442
in tons of different countries ,

14:33.442 --> 14:35.665
different cultures , different people ,

14:35.665 --> 14:37.665
different governments , and some of

14:37.665 --> 14:39.942
these places are very austere , remote ,

14:39.942 --> 14:42.165
and you might be the first American the

14:42.165 --> 14:44.276
locals see . So we represent not just

14:44.276 --> 14:46.609
the agency , but also the US government .

14:46.609 --> 14:48.776
So every time we go there , we will be

14:48.776 --> 14:48.489
working with that host nation

14:48.489 --> 14:50.640
government with local workers to help

14:50.640 --> 14:52.640
dig or help carry buckets and stuff

14:52.640 --> 14:54.940
like that . Um , and we want to leave

14:55.080 --> 14:57.358
the place better than how we got there .

14:57.358 --> 14:59.580
We want to build stronger relationships

14:59.580 --> 15:01.913
because once IPCS to a new duty station ,

15:01.913 --> 15:04.024
there's gonna be a new captain behind

15:04.024 --> 15:03.830
me who's we're gonna go have to meet

15:03.830 --> 15:05.919
those locals and continue working in

15:05.919 --> 15:07.419
that country . So building

15:07.419 --> 15:09.475
relationships like this is extremely

15:09.475 --> 15:12.739
important for the agency . And that

15:12.739 --> 15:14.517
brings us to the final and most

15:14.517 --> 15:16.572
meaningful step . Captain Anderson ,

15:16.572 --> 15:18.628
can you describe what happens at the

15:18.628 --> 15:20.683
end of the mission when remains have

15:20.683 --> 15:22.739
been recovered ? Yes , so right here

15:22.739 --> 15:24.739
you see in the top left , that is a

15:24.739 --> 15:26.850
repatriation ceremony bringing back a

15:26.850 --> 15:28.961
service member to the United States ,

15:28.961 --> 15:31.295
and on the right is an honorable Carrie .

15:31.295 --> 15:33.406
This is how we want to end all of our

15:33.406 --> 15:35.406
missions . What it means is we have

15:35.406 --> 15:37.572
possible human remains associated with

15:37.572 --> 15:39.739
the missing service member , and we're

15:39.739 --> 15:38.940
now bringing them back to the United

15:38.940 --> 15:40.940
States and giving them the proper .

15:41.140 --> 15:43.418
Military honors that they deserve . Uh ,

15:43.489 --> 15:45.619
it's a very grateful position and

15:45.619 --> 15:47.786
honorable position to be part of these

15:47.786 --> 15:49.952
ceremonies , and I just wanna say I've

15:49.952 --> 15:52.063
worked with the British , I've worked

15:52.063 --> 15:51.539
with the French on these missions and ,

15:51.619 --> 15:53.508
and the Germans , and there's not

15:53.508 --> 15:55.675
another country like the United States

15:55.675 --> 15:57.675
working to the extent that we do to

15:57.675 --> 15:59.563
find our POWs and MIAs , and it's

15:59.563 --> 16:01.619
really awesome to be part of . So on

16:01.619 --> 16:03.730
behalf of all the active duty members

16:03.730 --> 16:05.659
in Florida , in Hawaii right now

16:05.659 --> 16:07.937
getting ready to go on another mission ,

16:07.937 --> 16:10.103
just thank you for letting us work for

16:10.103 --> 16:09.369
you all .

16:16.400 --> 16:18.622
Thank you , Captain Anderson , Sergeant

16:18.622 --> 16:20.789
Cavour , and Ali for that powerful and

16:20.789 --> 16:22.733
detailed look into your work . The

16:22.733 --> 16:24.960
dedication and professionalism of DPAA

16:24.960 --> 16:27.320
teams are truly humbling . The work

16:27.320 --> 16:29.542
you've seen today is a testament to our

16:29.542 --> 16:31.598
nation's enduring promise to achieve

16:31.598 --> 16:33.764
the fullest possible accounting of our

16:33.764 --> 16:35.820
missing personnel and to never leave

16:35.820 --> 16:37.987
our fallen behind . It is a mission of

16:37.987 --> 16:40.153
honor , respect , and remembrance . Up

16:40.153 --> 16:41.931
next , we have our director for

16:41.931 --> 16:43.931
Partnerships and innovations , Mr .

16:43.931 --> 16:44.931
Rocky Gillette .

17:08.199 --> 17:10.255
Good morning , everyone . I am Rocky

17:10.255 --> 17:12.089
Gillette , the director for uh

17:12.089 --> 17:14.033
Partnerships and innovation at the

17:14.033 --> 17:17.239
Defense POW MIA Accounting Agency . It

17:17.239 --> 17:19.280
is such an honor to be here with so

17:19.280 --> 17:21.619
many families and fellow veterans .

17:22.280 --> 17:24.447
Thank , I want to thank each and every

17:24.447 --> 17:26.224
one of you for your service and

17:26.224 --> 17:28.430
sacrifice . And I sure thank you .

17:31.489 --> 17:33.600
And I sure appreciate the opportunity

17:33.600 --> 17:35.545
to be here in Detroit in the great

17:35.545 --> 17:37.711
state of Michigan . My grandfather was

17:37.711 --> 17:39.959
a Navy ROTC instructor at the

17:39.959 --> 17:42.181
University of Michigan . So I've always

17:42.181 --> 17:45.219
been a , a fan of the Wolverines . Both

17:45.219 --> 17:47.330
my father and grandfather went to the

17:47.330 --> 17:49.219
Naval Academy , and my dad really

17:49.219 --> 17:51.330
wanted me to go there too . So when I

17:51.330 --> 17:53.386
was a teenager , he would take me to

17:53.386 --> 17:55.579
Annapolis and show me the campus and

17:55.579 --> 17:57.523
the sports and everything . It was

17:57.523 --> 17:59.690
fabulous . But one day I looked around

17:59.690 --> 18:01.857
and so I remember I was a teenager and

18:01.857 --> 18:03.912
I'm no spring chicken , so this is a

18:03.912 --> 18:05.912
long time ago , and there were only

18:05.979 --> 18:08.939
male students there . And I said , Dad ,

18:09.060 --> 18:12.390
where are the coeds ? He said , Son , I

18:12.390 --> 18:14.446
don't think you want to go to school

18:14.446 --> 18:17.229
here . So I got an Army ROTC

18:17.229 --> 18:19.173
scholarship and went to college in

18:19.173 --> 18:21.396
California . A lot of coeds out there .

18:22.260 --> 18:24.371
Uh , in any case , I'm really excited

18:24.371 --> 18:26.593
to share with you some of the ways that

18:26.593 --> 18:28.149
DPA is leveraging strategic

18:28.149 --> 18:30.316
partnerships and innovation to provide

18:30.316 --> 18:32.371
answers to you , the families of the

18:32.371 --> 18:34.093
missing . We only launched our

18:34.093 --> 18:36.371
partnership program about 78 years ago .

18:36.719 --> 18:40.520
Today we have over 125 partners around

18:40.520 --> 18:43.479
the world who have added greatly to our

18:43.479 --> 18:45.800
capabilities and capacity to fulfill

18:45.800 --> 18:47.967
our accounting mission . There's a lot

18:47.967 --> 18:50.189
to share , so I'm going to give you the

18:50.189 --> 18:52.244
wave talks , and then I'm gonna show

18:52.244 --> 18:53.856
you a pretty cool video that

18:53.856 --> 18:55.911
demonstrates some of the really neat

18:55.911 --> 18:55.550
things that comes from using our

18:55.550 --> 18:58.380
partners . Next slide , please .

18:59.439 --> 19:02.040
So , as we've increased our innovative

19:02.040 --> 19:03.651
use of partners , partners ,

19:03.800 --> 19:05.967
partnerships so successfully that last

19:05.967 --> 19:09.959
year , we completed our 275th partner

19:09.959 --> 19:13.050
field mission . We also have over 90

19:13.189 --> 19:15.930
partner uh research projects ongoing

19:16.229 --> 19:18.910
and over 15 innovation efforts with

19:18.910 --> 19:21.260
partners , so we've really ratcheted up

19:21.260 --> 19:23.750
over the years . This particular photo

19:23.750 --> 19:26.810
is a , uh , the deepest underwater

19:26.910 --> 19:29.030
field activity that DPA has ever

19:29.030 --> 19:32.050
executed . We work with two outstanding ,

19:32.229 --> 19:33.896
uh , oceanographic underwater

19:33.896 --> 19:35.896
archaeology organizations , Scripps

19:35.896 --> 19:38.118
Institute of Oceanography , and I think

19:38.118 --> 19:40.229
it was the University of Delaware was

19:40.229 --> 19:42.007
the other one . And to pursue a

19:42.007 --> 19:44.180
recovery operation , they conducted

19:44.180 --> 19:46.180
highly technical dives using what's

19:46.180 --> 19:48.780
called rebreathers for a site of a

19:48.780 --> 19:51.619
possible World War II crash located

19:51.619 --> 19:55.540
295 ft deep in the Adriatic

19:55.540 --> 19:57.819
Sea , and this and other complicated

19:57.819 --> 19:59.875
efforts show demonstrate some of the

19:59.875 --> 20:01.986
things that partners can bring to the

20:01.986 --> 20:05.979
table . Next slide please . So our

20:05.979 --> 20:08.660
work with external partnerships is in

20:08.660 --> 20:10.819
itself an innovation . We , we didn't

20:10.819 --> 20:12.986
really do that until we started up the

20:12.986 --> 20:15.208
program about 10 years ago . There were

20:15.208 --> 20:17.375
some ad hoc things , but today we have

20:17.375 --> 20:19.640
a dedicated team , my team of , of

20:19.900 --> 20:22.800
professionals who develop and harness

20:22.880 --> 20:25.020
strategic partnerships to help us in

20:25.020 --> 20:27.689
almost every aspect of our mission . As

20:27.689 --> 20:29.849
I'll discuss with you today , they ,

20:29.930 --> 20:32.041
they can , the partners conduct field

20:32.041 --> 20:34.130
work . They do research , and again

20:34.130 --> 20:36.408
they're involved in innovation efforts .

20:36.408 --> 20:38.574
They bring new innovative technology .

20:38.574 --> 20:40.741
They bring new equipment , processes ,

20:40.741 --> 20:42.686
and they offer terrific skills and

20:42.686 --> 20:44.908
experience . It turns out that a lot of

20:44.908 --> 20:46.686
things that we do , you saw the

20:46.686 --> 20:48.797
fabulous work that our internal teams

20:48.797 --> 20:50.630
do in the field . And well , the

20:50.630 --> 20:52.741
partners complement that because they

20:52.741 --> 20:55.074
have a lot of experience in archaeology .

20:55.074 --> 20:57.352
They have experience in research , etc .

20:57.352 --> 20:59.463
so they supplement what we do . As we

20:59.463 --> 21:01.408
say in the military , partners are

21:01.408 --> 21:03.186
truly force multipliers for the

21:03.186 --> 21:05.630
accounting mission . And one of the

21:05.630 --> 21:07.741
things that came out of this that was

21:07.741 --> 21:09.797
unexpected , I didn't think , didn't

21:09.797 --> 21:12.270
realize when we started was that as our

21:12.270 --> 21:14.349
partners help us , help us with

21:14.349 --> 21:16.127
research , field activities and

21:16.127 --> 21:18.293
innovation , they become aware of this

21:18.293 --> 21:21.390
noble mission . Our partner teams

21:21.390 --> 21:23.150
include students , veterans ,

21:23.270 --> 21:25.750
volunteers , and they learn about the

21:25.750 --> 21:27.861
sacrifices made by you and your loved

21:27.861 --> 21:30.430
ones as they come to understand and

21:30.430 --> 21:32.374
appreciate what the mission is all

21:32.374 --> 21:34.430
about . They become passionate about

21:34.430 --> 21:36.597
trying to help . They volunteer , they

21:36.597 --> 21:39.310
raise money and to help pay for partner

21:39.310 --> 21:41.477
missions , and they bring us new ideas

21:41.477 --> 21:43.670
and suggestions . I actually have a

21:43.989 --> 21:46.729
note on my desk from a student from ,

21:46.829 --> 21:48.940
uh , I think it was the University of

21:48.940 --> 21:51.660
Wisconsin . Where she says that working

21:51.660 --> 21:54.099
on this , uh , partner mission was the

21:54.099 --> 21:55.988
opportunity of her lifetime , and

21:55.988 --> 21:58.210
she'll never , never forget it . When I

21:58.210 --> 22:00.321
ever have a bad day , I pull that one

22:00.321 --> 22:02.599
out and look at it . Not many bad days ,

22:02.599 --> 22:05.569
but anyway . Next slide . So our

22:05.569 --> 22:07.736
partner development program ensures we

22:07.736 --> 22:09.969
identify and work with highly qualified

22:09.969 --> 22:12.290
partners . We engage in intensive

22:12.290 --> 22:15.010
internal discussions and collaboration

22:15.010 --> 22:17.121
to make sure we're matching partners'

22:17.121 --> 22:19.250
capabilities with DPA needs and

22:19.250 --> 22:21.417
requirements . We consider things like

22:21.417 --> 22:23.528
the partner's location . What kind of

22:23.528 --> 22:25.750
specialized equipment might they have ?

22:25.750 --> 22:27.806
What technology do they bring ? What

22:27.806 --> 22:29.917
expertise do they have in archaeology

22:29.917 --> 22:31.972
or AI or under remote vehicles , and

22:31.972 --> 22:34.083
then we decide which partner can best

22:34.083 --> 22:36.083
conduct a mission . Again , we have

22:36.083 --> 22:38.083
over 125 active partners across the

22:38.083 --> 22:40.083
country and around the world . This

22:40.083 --> 22:42.139
week we sent people to meet with the

22:42.139 --> 22:44.139
anthropology department at Michigan

22:44.139 --> 22:46.028
State . So we're going to look at

22:46.028 --> 22:48.250
whether we have some opportunities with

22:48.250 --> 22:50.083
the Spartans . And we have a new

22:50.083 --> 22:52.083
initiative we're getting ready to ,

22:52.083 --> 22:54.194
we're starting to work on where we're

22:54.194 --> 22:56.306
gonna try and create regional centers

22:56.306 --> 22:58.417
and we can bring in partners within a

22:58.417 --> 22:59.917
region who offer different

22:59.917 --> 23:02.139
multidisciplinary approaches and we can

23:02.139 --> 23:04.139
leverage , for example , skills and

23:04.139 --> 23:06.770
research , skills in AI , uh , GIS ,

23:06.890 --> 23:09.630
geospatial , and match them up together

23:09.729 --> 23:11.849
and then create synergy as we go

23:11.849 --> 23:14.640
forward . And it's really important to

23:14.640 --> 23:16.880
note that our partners strive to reduce

23:16.880 --> 23:19.040
costs as much as possible . Again ,

23:19.160 --> 23:21.640
many of them raise funds and pay for a

23:21.640 --> 23:24.000
good portion of their emissions out of

23:24.000 --> 23:26.278
money that they've raised . On average ,

23:26.410 --> 23:28.839
partner missions cost less than it

23:28.839 --> 23:30.880
would cost us to do it without a

23:30.880 --> 23:33.390
partner . Next slide , please .

23:34.900 --> 23:38.109
So research is critical to DPA

23:38.109 --> 23:39.887
operations and really for all ,

23:39.887 --> 23:42.053
virtually every aspect of what we do ,

23:42.053 --> 23:44.276
including uh family events such as this

23:44.276 --> 23:46.165
update . Our partners are able to

23:46.165 --> 23:48.390
conduct what we call more foundational

23:48.390 --> 23:51.530
research , so longer term research into

23:51.530 --> 23:53.640
a region , a battle , the hurricane

23:53.640 --> 23:55.829
forest , the Battle of Bulge , so that

23:55.829 --> 23:57.996
they can understand what all the units

23:57.996 --> 23:59.885
were doing in that battle , where

23:59.885 --> 24:01.940
different things were taking place ,

24:01.940 --> 24:04.107
and that can feed into our uh internal

24:04.107 --> 24:06.051
research who are really focused on

24:06.051 --> 24:08.162
cases and , and they can utilize that

24:08.162 --> 24:10.273
to understand better what happened in

24:10.273 --> 24:12.385
the , the battle that day or , or the

24:12.385 --> 24:14.551
the when there was an aircraft crash ,

24:14.551 --> 24:16.662
whatever . And one thing we found too

24:16.662 --> 24:18.273
is again , research is often

24:18.273 --> 24:20.329
interdisciplinary . So we're growing

24:20.329 --> 24:22.349
partner research , um , and we're

24:22.349 --> 24:25.010
growing our partner research network to

24:25.010 --> 24:27.177
try and bring in these different skill

24:27.177 --> 24:29.510
sets that contribute to geo-referencing ,

24:29.510 --> 24:31.750
etc . and help us advance our cases .

24:32.219 --> 24:34.420
And we actually have a nationwide

24:34.420 --> 24:37.060
program for this to reach out to

24:37.060 --> 24:39.171
different partners called the Hub and

24:39.171 --> 24:41.227
Spoke Program . We have 16 different

24:41.227 --> 24:43.282
universities and institutions across

24:43.282 --> 24:45.500
the country who participate in our

24:45.500 --> 24:48.300
research program . Uh , these include

24:48.579 --> 24:51.890
the Ohio State University , who Uh ,

24:52.319 --> 24:55.469
Texas A&M , San Diego State , and the

24:55.469 --> 24:57.540
World War II Museum in New Orleans .

24:58.040 --> 25:00.119
All of these entities have terrific

25:00.119 --> 25:02.286
military history programs and are able

25:02.286 --> 25:03.730
to contribute things in a

25:03.730 --> 25:05.920
multidisciplinary way . And in this

25:05.920 --> 25:08.142
particular , in the Midwest region , we

25:08.142 --> 25:10.198
also have University of Wisconsin in

25:10.198 --> 25:12.031
Madison and , uh , University of

25:12.031 --> 25:14.253
Illinois Chicago all participate in the

25:14.253 --> 25:16.989
Hub and Spoke , um . Yeah , again ,

25:17.060 --> 25:18.671
they , they not only do that

25:18.671 --> 25:20.782
foundational research , they actually

25:20.782 --> 25:22.949
help with the case summaries for the ,

25:22.949 --> 25:22.709
for these FMUs . I don't think they did

25:22.709 --> 25:24.931
any for this one , but they have in the

25:24.931 --> 25:28.589
past . Uh , next slide . So looking at

25:28.589 --> 25:32.510
uh terrestrial fieldwork , um , again ,

25:32.670 --> 25:34.510
our , our partners who do field

25:34.510 --> 25:36.454
archaeology are located around the

25:36.454 --> 25:40.170
world . In 2024 , we did 33

25:40.170 --> 25:42.337
terrestrial missions in 14 countries ,

25:42.550 --> 25:44.772
and these are very similar to what this

25:44.772 --> 25:46.717
team just presented . We have this

25:46.717 --> 25:48.494
amazing internal team , but the

25:48.494 --> 25:50.717
partners are able to replicate that and

25:50.717 --> 25:52.828
do it , and add to supplement what we

25:52.828 --> 25:54.883
do . As a matter of fact , uh , uh ,

25:54.883 --> 25:58.810
one photo , uh , with the water the far

25:58.810 --> 26:00.921
right , that's University of Illinois

26:00.921 --> 26:02.810
Chicago in the Philippines . Uh ,

26:02.819 --> 26:05.041
University of Chicago actually had done

26:05.041 --> 26:06.875
a lot of archaeology work in the

26:06.875 --> 26:06.660
Philippines over the years , so they

26:06.660 --> 26:08.827
had , had really terrific experience ,

26:08.989 --> 26:11.045
experience in getting permits , knew

26:11.045 --> 26:13.380
the lay of the land , etc . Um , what

26:13.380 --> 26:17.329
else is in here ? And yeah , that's

26:17.329 --> 26:20.489
the , the barge that's uh off the coast

26:20.489 --> 26:22.489
of Italy . We actually had to build

26:22.489 --> 26:25.209
that barge , the partner to go into an

26:25.209 --> 26:27.459
inland waterway and excavate the site .

26:27.689 --> 26:29.856
So it's just amazing what partners are

26:29.856 --> 26:31.578
able to do for us and again to

26:31.578 --> 26:33.856
supplement our activities . Next slide ,

26:33.856 --> 26:36.119
please . So turning to underwater

26:36.119 --> 26:39.380
archaeology , again , our archaeology ,

26:39.459 --> 26:41.459
our underwater archaeology partners

26:41.459 --> 26:43.681
operate worldwide . Last year we did 16

26:43.681 --> 26:45.792
underwater missions in 11 countries .

26:45.979 --> 26:48.900
Underwater is hard . It , it invariably ,

26:48.979 --> 26:52.060
it's difficult circumstances , uh , but

26:52.060 --> 26:53.859
it is a great opportunity for

26:53.859 --> 26:57.160
innovation . So , um , you can see in

26:57.160 --> 27:00.339
that , that lower left one , how

27:00.339 --> 27:02.670
incredibly murky , uh , the water is ,

27:02.680 --> 27:04.847
and you can imagine how dangerous that

27:04.847 --> 27:06.958
is to have divers down in an aircraft

27:06.958 --> 27:09.640
or a vessel . So , a partner with that

27:09.640 --> 27:12.189
mission . Uh , invented a remote

27:12.410 --> 27:15.489
vehicle that could go down in and snake

27:15.489 --> 27:17.569
through the holes of the ship that

27:17.569 --> 27:19.680
would allow us to not have a diver do

27:19.680 --> 27:21.791
that , but they could get snagged and

27:21.791 --> 27:23.791
then also they were able to map the

27:23.791 --> 27:25.791
vessel so that we could do a , do a

27:25.791 --> 27:27.902
recovery . So cool stuff . Next one ,

27:27.902 --> 27:31.439
please . And regarding innovation , uh ,

27:31.859 --> 27:33.939
it's important that agency has been

27:33.939 --> 27:35.995
innovative from the very beginning ,

27:36.099 --> 27:38.210
but we wanted to ensure that we had a

27:38.210 --> 27:40.210
very strategic collaborative way of

27:40.210 --> 27:42.432
pursuing innovation . So my directorate

27:42.432 --> 27:44.377
was tasked to establish our agency

27:44.377 --> 27:46.589
innovation program . It's hard to take

27:46.589 --> 27:48.756
a picture of innovation , but so these

27:48.756 --> 27:50.922
are , I have to describe some of these

27:50.922 --> 27:54.069
things . The one , on the lower left is

27:54.069 --> 27:58.069
a PhD fellow , uh , scanning animal

27:58.069 --> 27:59.930
bones with something called

27:59.930 --> 28:02.760
laser-induced breakdown

28:02.760 --> 28:05.910
spectroscopy . Try saying that fast 3

28:05.910 --> 28:09.199
times . We call it L LIBS . And this

28:09.199 --> 28:11.310
technology hopefully will allow us to

28:11.310 --> 28:13.143
quickly tell if we're looking at

28:13.143 --> 28:15.989
osseous material or uh maybe coral from

28:15.989 --> 28:18.045
an underwater thing . So it could be

28:18.045 --> 28:20.380
really helpful in the field . And um

28:20.979 --> 28:23.035
technology doesn't always have to be

28:23.035 --> 28:25.310
better , but yeah . Technology doesn't

28:25.310 --> 28:27.532
always have to be or innovation doesn't

28:27.532 --> 28:29.810
always have to be some high tech thing .

28:29.810 --> 28:32.032
You heard the team describe and you saw

28:32.032 --> 28:34.199
the screening , that's hours and hours

28:34.199 --> 28:36.310
of folks with these screeners sifting

28:36.310 --> 28:38.366
through the soil to try and find the

28:38.366 --> 28:42.270
smallest thing . So that that photo

28:42.270 --> 28:45.469
is of experimental mechanical screener

28:45.469 --> 28:47.880
that we're working on right now . We're

28:47.880 --> 28:50.047
trying to be really careful . We don't

28:50.047 --> 28:52.102
wanna , we wanna have a , a screener

28:52.102 --> 28:54.213
increase efficiency , but of course ,

28:54.213 --> 28:55.991
we don't want to lose any AusSI

28:55.991 --> 28:58.102
material , so we're testing that very

28:58.102 --> 28:59.991
diligently . And that 3D photo is

28:59.991 --> 29:02.213
pretty cool too . That was taken with a

29:02.213 --> 29:04.380
remote underwater vehicle . And we can

29:04.380 --> 29:06.547
do that with ships , etc . and build a

29:06.547 --> 29:08.547
model . So when the divers get down

29:08.547 --> 29:10.769
there , you can imagine like that other

29:10.769 --> 29:10.550
one with the murky waters , they have

29:10.550 --> 29:12.717
to orient themselves to where they are

29:12.717 --> 29:14.772
in the aircraft or the vessel . It's

29:14.772 --> 29:16.828
dangerous , but if they have this 3D

29:16.828 --> 29:18.717
model , it greatly assist them in

29:18.717 --> 29:20.661
planning their dive and being more

29:20.661 --> 29:24.459
efficient on the on the sea bottom . OK ,

29:24.810 --> 29:27.032
so the next thing we're gonna do , uh ,

29:27.250 --> 29:29.650
again , just even using partnerships

29:29.650 --> 29:31.817
was an innovation and all , and really

29:31.817 --> 29:33.817
neat things came of it . So I wanna

29:33.817 --> 29:36.479
show a video of a , a neat , really

29:36.479 --> 29:38.535
interesting , uh , partner effort in

29:38.535 --> 29:40.423
England . You can roll the tape ,

29:40.423 --> 29:42.368
please . The hopeful beep of metal

29:42.368 --> 29:44.209
detectors breaks the silence as

29:44.209 --> 29:46.609
American and British soldiers side by

29:46.609 --> 29:49.680
side sift through soil . In this gaping

29:49.680 --> 29:52.280
impact crater from World War II , 80

29:52.280 --> 29:55.520
years on from the day a US B-17 bomber

29:55.520 --> 29:57.520
slammed into the ground here by the

29:57.520 --> 29:59.687
Suffolk coast of eastern England , the

29:59.687 --> 30:01.964
pilot's remains might finally be found .

30:02.119 --> 30:04.341
It keeps growing with every bucket . US

30:04.341 --> 30:06.286
Air Specialist Derek Browning from

30:06.286 --> 30:08.508
Colorado is stationed here in England .

30:08.508 --> 30:10.508
Many of the bigger pieces will stay

30:10.508 --> 30:12.619
behind , and then we'll inspect those

30:12.619 --> 30:15.660
to see whether they're rocks . Wood

30:16.069 --> 30:20.020
or metal or possibly tiny

30:20.020 --> 30:22.300
bone fragments of US Air Force

30:22.300 --> 30:24.569
Lieutenant John Fisher from New York ,

30:24.780 --> 30:27.469
just 21 years old . He was part of a

30:27.469 --> 30:30.180
top secret program codenamed Operation

30:30.180 --> 30:32.780
Aphrodite , an experiment using planes

30:32.780 --> 30:35.500
on one-way missions to destroy Nazi

30:35.500 --> 30:37.780
targets in Europe . Pilots were meant

30:37.780 --> 30:40.140
to parachute out after another plane

30:40.140 --> 30:42.920
took over by radio control . Those

30:42.920 --> 30:46.439
aircraft were old war-weary B-17

30:46.439 --> 30:48.810
Flying Fortress bombers , first

30:48.810 --> 30:50.810
stripped down for more space , then

30:50.810 --> 30:53.530
loaded with tons of explosives , but

30:53.530 --> 30:55.770
Fisher's plane stalled soon after

30:55.770 --> 30:58.229
takeoff . He pushed his co-pilot out

30:58.359 --> 31:00.949
and sacrificed himself . This aircraft .

31:01.859 --> 31:04.081
It , it blew apart pretty much in every

31:04.081 --> 31:06.180
direction , um , and so something as

31:06.180 --> 31:08.291
small as just a bolt or a thread , it

31:08.291 --> 31:10.420
just kind of tells a story . It's a

31:10.420 --> 31:12.739
respectful , almost reverential and

31:12.739 --> 31:15.099
time-consuming process . These

31:15.099 --> 31:17.099
volunteers have unearthed more than

31:17.099 --> 31:19.380
3000 fragments from that B-17 Flying

31:19.380 --> 31:22.199
Fortress , notably this horseshoe for

31:22.199 --> 31:24.459
luck and this nameplate that clearly

31:24.459 --> 31:27.300
says Detroit General Motors Corporation .

31:28.400 --> 31:30.439
Each metal , rubber , and fabric

31:30.439 --> 31:32.920
fragment a clue to where more of

31:32.920 --> 31:35.439
Fisher's remains might be found . I

31:35.439 --> 31:37.606
know that there's a big piece of plane

31:38.119 --> 31:40.760
under here . Rosanna Price is head of

31:40.760 --> 31:42.593
engagement at England's Cotswold

31:42.593 --> 31:44.538
Archaeology . There's more of it .

31:44.538 --> 31:46.729
Overseeing the cleaning , sorting and

31:46.729 --> 31:49.540
cataloging of every piece volunteers on

31:49.540 --> 31:51.373
earth . OK , this is some of the

31:51.373 --> 31:53.429
largest pieces we've found . This is

31:53.429 --> 31:55.680
the hub , um , wow , and this is a

31:55.680 --> 31:57.902
piece of the propeller still attached .

31:57.902 --> 32:00.236
There is excitement with every new find ,

32:00.236 --> 32:03.439
she says . And there are daily flybys

32:03.439 --> 32:06.079
of people wishing them well and paying

32:06.079 --> 32:08.790
respect to Lieutenant Fisher . Any

32:08.790 --> 32:10.910
possible remains found here will be

32:10.910 --> 32:13.109
flown on a US Air Force plane to the

32:13.109 --> 32:15.150
Defense Prisoner of War Missing in

32:15.150 --> 32:18.489
Action Accounting Agency lab . Where

32:18.489 --> 32:20.711
tests are run to confirm if remains are

32:20.711 --> 32:22.878
human , then if there's a DNA match to

32:22.878 --> 32:25.729
any family . If so , a full military

32:25.729 --> 32:27.896
burial is ordered . This really is the

32:27.896 --> 32:31.020
manifestation of No Man Left Behind and

32:31.020 --> 32:33.130
a mark of America's and Britain's

32:33.130 --> 32:35.569
enduring special relationship since

32:35.569 --> 32:38.010
World War II . You talk to local people

32:38.010 --> 32:41.160
even today . In their 80s , 90s , they

32:41.160 --> 32:43.216
remember the Americans coming , they

32:43.216 --> 32:44.938
were , they still remember the

32:44.938 --> 32:46.938
excitement , how they watched those

32:46.938 --> 32:49.104
planes go out every morning , and they

32:49.104 --> 32:48.920
counted them back in the evening and

32:48.920 --> 32:50.920
they were as bereft as anybody else

32:51.060 --> 32:53.282
when planes didn't come back , and they

32:53.282 --> 32:55.449
were really grateful for the Americans

32:55.449 --> 32:55.109
coming home and you still feel that

32:55.109 --> 32:57.165
when you talk to people now . So the

32:57.165 --> 32:59.479
work carries on under this quiet canopy

32:59.479 --> 33:02.160
of trees to bring one more American

33:02.160 --> 33:05.239
serviceman home . For CBS Saturday

33:05.239 --> 33:08.079
Morning , Rainy Innocencio on England's

33:08.079 --> 33:11.949
Suffolk coast . Am I on ?

33:12.069 --> 33:14.291
I hope you all heard the , uh , mention

33:14.291 --> 33:16.291
the reference to Detroit after that

33:16.291 --> 33:18.236
plane was apparently built , or at

33:18.236 --> 33:20.630
least parts came from there . Um , one

33:20.630 --> 33:22.797
of the cool , so many cool things that

33:22.797 --> 33:24.463
come out of this again , uh ,

33:24.463 --> 33:26.519
connecting with our British allies ,

33:26.519 --> 33:28.686
but also those volunteers . There were

33:28.686 --> 33:31.069
90 veterans who volunteered for that

33:31.069 --> 33:33.125
effort , so that's really cool , and

33:33.125 --> 33:35.291
they , they get , they get so much out

33:35.291 --> 33:37.550
of it to connect with , um , with the

33:37.550 --> 33:39.550
families , etc . It's , it's really

33:39.550 --> 33:41.689
wonderful . Um , let's go to the next

33:41.689 --> 33:45.619
slide . So , uh ,

33:45.630 --> 33:47.852
through all of our partnering efforts ,

33:47.852 --> 33:49.963
we are expanding our capabilities and

33:49.963 --> 33:52.550
capacity among , for all , across all

33:52.550 --> 33:55.589
the agency's operations . All of our

33:55.589 --> 33:57.867
partner efforts are aimed at one thing ,

33:58.069 --> 34:00.180
supporting our mission to account for

34:00.180 --> 34:02.369
your loved ones . This Michigan hero ,

34:03.069 --> 34:05.125
Flight Officer Chester Rinke is from

34:05.125 --> 34:07.420
Marquette , Michigan , and he was

34:07.420 --> 34:09.476
recovered from a crash site in India

34:09.590 --> 34:11.812
through recovery efforts involving a US

34:11.812 --> 34:13.923
partner at the University of Nebraska

34:13.923 --> 34:15.929
at Lincoln , and uh we had a local

34:16.229 --> 34:18.173
Indian university help . It really

34:18.173 --> 34:20.118
helps when we have a local partner

34:20.118 --> 34:22.062
because again we've partnered with

34:22.062 --> 34:24.118
permits and logistics , so they were

34:24.118 --> 34:26.062
able to find and recover um Flight

34:26.062 --> 34:28.173
Officer Chester Winke . And I want to

34:28.173 --> 34:31.070
return to the , the hero in that video ,

34:31.409 --> 34:34.770
uh , Lieutenant Fisher . Um ,

34:35.909 --> 34:38.131
He got the Silver Star . I , I think he

34:38.131 --> 34:40.353
should have gotten the Medal of Honor .

34:40.353 --> 34:42.465
You know , he , he saved his co-pilot

34:42.465 --> 34:44.687
and then he made sure the plane avoided

34:44.687 --> 34:46.742
any villages or towns and sacrificed

34:46.742 --> 34:48.965
his life . Uh , we haven't been able to

34:48.965 --> 34:52.500
find his remains , but we did find this ,

34:52.719 --> 34:55.120
uh , bracelet which was mangled in the

34:55.120 --> 34:59.040
crash , and , uh , It's engraved .

35:02.469 --> 35:05.070
With all my love , followed by his

35:05.070 --> 35:08.979
wife's name . So . Our partners truly

35:08.979 --> 35:10.868
share our commitment to providing

35:10.868 --> 35:13.090
answers to you , the families , and the

35:13.090 --> 35:15.257
nation . Thank you for your time today

35:15.257 --> 35:16.423
until they are not .

35:20.629 --> 35:22.629
And I'll be followed by Doctor Owen

35:22.629 --> 35:24.573
O'Leary from Scientific Analysis .

35:24.573 --> 35:25.573
Thank you .

35:35.139 --> 35:37.580
Good morning . Thank you for coming out .

35:38.000 --> 35:40.820
Um , my name is Owen O'Leary . Uh , I

35:40.820 --> 35:43.820
am a supervisory forensic archaeologist

35:43.820 --> 35:46.540
and the Field Sciences Manager for the

35:46.540 --> 35:49.500
agency . Um , that means I am in charge

35:49.500 --> 35:51.500
of ensuring that all of the science

35:51.500 --> 35:53.419
that is conducted when we are out

35:53.419 --> 35:55.141
somewhere in the world is done

35:55.141 --> 35:57.489
correctly . So that we do not miss

35:57.489 --> 35:59.810
anything when we are out there . Uh , I

35:59.810 --> 36:02.032
promise , despite the clothes , I am an

36:02.032 --> 36:04.254
archaeologist , so if you could imagine

36:04.254 --> 36:07.010
a much bigger beard , some worn-in

36:07.010 --> 36:09.600
boots , permanently stained cargo pants ,

36:09.649 --> 36:11.840
a filthy t-shirt , you know , and a

36:11.840 --> 36:14.007
baseball hat , so disgusting , my wife

36:14.007 --> 36:16.062
won't let me bring it in the house ,

36:16.062 --> 36:18.118
right ? So if we're all working with

36:18.118 --> 36:20.250
our imaginations today , now , OK , I

36:20.250 --> 36:22.959
promise I am an archaeologist . Today ,

36:23.040 --> 36:25.151
I'm gonna go over uh the recovery and

36:25.151 --> 36:27.373
identification processes that we use at

36:27.373 --> 36:30.120
DPAA um in general , so that you can

36:30.120 --> 36:32.439
have an idea of what happens both a

36:32.439 --> 36:34.439
little bit in the field , which you

36:34.439 --> 36:36.661
already saw some of , and to understand

36:36.661 --> 36:38.883
what happens when evidentiary materials

36:38.883 --> 36:40.840
like remains or , um , you know ,

36:41.070 --> 36:43.292
artifacts like Roy talked about make it

36:43.292 --> 36:45.840
back to us . So we're going to go over

36:45.840 --> 36:48.239
field operations , lab operations , the

36:48.239 --> 36:51.370
identification process in general , uh ,

36:51.379 --> 36:54.080
and then , uh , we're going to go over

36:54.080 --> 36:56.191
special projects and I'll talk to you

36:56.191 --> 36:59.790
about what those are . OK . Um ,

37:00.209 --> 37:02.949
first up , field operations . OK .

37:03.449 --> 37:06.479
Field operations are a worldwide effort ,

37:06.770 --> 37:09.689
right ? Um , we do them everywhere in

37:09.689 --> 37:12.219
the world . I think we operated in more

37:12.219 --> 37:14.989
than 50 countries this last year , um ,

37:15.020 --> 37:17.076
across the planet between all of our

37:17.076 --> 37:19.020
fieldwork efforts . Um , and it is

37:19.020 --> 37:21.020
informed by Our internal research ,

37:21.199 --> 37:23.310
right ? With our research departments

37:23.310 --> 37:25.366
and the regional directorates . It's

37:25.366 --> 37:27.310
also informed by research with our

37:27.310 --> 37:27.080
partners through the Partnership and

37:27.080 --> 37:29.136
Innovation Directorate . And this is

37:29.136 --> 37:31.247
how we figure out where we need to go

37:31.247 --> 37:33.302
in the world , right ? You've got to

37:33.302 --> 37:35.524
start with your desk research and so we

37:35.524 --> 37:39.370
begin there . Um , Once we have a

37:39.370 --> 37:41.537
location on the planet that we want to

37:41.537 --> 37:43.703
go and we want to go do investigations

37:43.703 --> 37:45.759
or excavations in that location , we

37:45.759 --> 37:48.060
put together a specialized team of

37:48.060 --> 37:50.300
maybe anywhere between 6 individuals

37:50.300 --> 37:53.139
for a small investigation , up to 25

37:53.139 --> 37:55.300
for a larger excavation , um ,

37:55.340 --> 37:57.618
depending upon where we're going to go .

37:57.618 --> 37:59.729
We make sure that the right personnel

37:59.729 --> 38:01.951
are included . So if it's going to be a

38:01.951 --> 38:03.896
really steep mountain site , we're

38:03.896 --> 38:05.951
going to include mountaineers on the

38:05.951 --> 38:08.173
team , right ? We take medics , we take

38:08.173 --> 38:10.919
linguists cause my wow is not very good ,

38:11.010 --> 38:13.689
neither is my Vietnamese , right ? But

38:13.689 --> 38:15.800
I need that capacity . If we're going

38:15.800 --> 38:17.800
to be an underwater mission , we're

38:17.800 --> 38:19.856
gonna have a whole suite of divers .

38:19.856 --> 38:22.078
We're going to have unexploded ordnance

38:22.078 --> 38:24.022
technicians to help keep us safe .

38:24.022 --> 38:26.133
Right . So we've got a lot of subject

38:26.133 --> 38:28.989
matter experts , and our teams are uh

38:28.989 --> 38:31.750
led by a scientific recovery expert ,

38:32.030 --> 38:34.110
right , which is a fancy way to say

38:34.110 --> 38:36.110
they're the person in charge of the

38:36.110 --> 38:39.620
science out on the site . OK ? So in

38:39.620 --> 38:41.842
addition to archaeological recoveries ,

38:41.939 --> 38:44.899
we also do disinterments of unknowns .

38:45.219 --> 38:49.199
So these are Unknown individuals who've

38:49.199 --> 38:51.479
been buried in our national cemeteries

38:51.479 --> 38:54.040
throughout um , Europe , and there are

38:54.040 --> 38:56.239
also one in Hawaii , the National

38:56.239 --> 38:58.461
Memorial Cemetery in the Pacific , also

38:58.461 --> 39:00.572
known as the Punch Bowl , and then we

39:00.572 --> 39:02.795
have another large cemetery in Manila .

39:02.795 --> 39:05.840
So we do do disinterments as well .

39:06.770 --> 39:09.729
Um , the scientific recovery expert or

39:09.729 --> 39:13.570
archaeologists are specialists in

39:13.570 --> 39:15.729
running excavations , controlled

39:15.729 --> 39:17.896
excavation , because you only ever get

39:17.896 --> 39:20.659
to excavate a site once and then you've

39:20.659 --> 39:23.409
destroyed the site effectively . So you

39:23.409 --> 39:25.242
have to make sure you do it in a

39:25.242 --> 39:27.465
controlled , methodical manner and that

39:27.465 --> 39:29.631
the relationships between anything you

39:29.631 --> 39:32.090
find are tracked and documented through

39:32.090 --> 39:34.610
photography , through notes , and other

39:34.610 --> 39:36.840
things like that . They are also

39:36.840 --> 39:39.030
experts in reading the thousands of

39:39.030 --> 39:41.310
points of data and information that is

39:41.310 --> 39:44.149
coming in during the excavation to make

39:44.149 --> 39:45.927
sure that we're making the best

39:45.927 --> 39:48.038
decisions possible on where to expand

39:48.038 --> 39:50.149
the excavation to give us the highest

39:50.149 --> 39:52.149
likelihood of recovering what we're

39:52.149 --> 39:54.316
looking for when we are out there . So

39:54.669 --> 39:56.725
when you look at this , you just see

39:56.725 --> 39:58.989
sort of a wall of dirt , right ? But to

39:58.989 --> 40:01.290
the trained eye , What you're going to

40:01.290 --> 40:03.290
see is there's actually 3 different

40:03.290 --> 40:05.234
layers of dirt . So we're thinking

40:05.234 --> 40:07.290
about site formation processes . How

40:07.290 --> 40:09.090
did it get this way ? Site

40:09.090 --> 40:11.929
transformation processes . In many

40:11.929 --> 40:13.873
cases , some of these sites are 80

40:13.873 --> 40:15.985
years old . What has happened to that

40:15.985 --> 40:18.489
piece of land or that ground across

40:18.489 --> 40:20.322
that time frame and how has that

40:20.322 --> 40:22.322
changed ? what's going on there and

40:22.322 --> 40:24.715
what we might find . You're also gonna

40:24.715 --> 40:27.034
see the uh white circle and the arrows

40:27.034 --> 40:29.435
indicate incident-related material , in

40:29.435 --> 40:31.675
this case , aircraft wreckage , right ?

40:31.834 --> 40:34.955
And so by looking at this , we make

40:34.955 --> 40:37.122
decisions on a minute by minute , hour

40:37.122 --> 40:39.475
by hour basis on what to do next when

40:39.475 --> 40:43.459
we're out there . OK . We're looking

40:43.459 --> 40:45.459
for things like differences in soil

40:45.459 --> 40:48.419
color , soil texture , um , and other

40:48.419 --> 40:50.252
things like that . What might be

40:50.252 --> 40:52.363
included in it ? Do you suddenly have

40:52.363 --> 40:54.419
red clay and you go to white sand or

40:54.419 --> 40:56.530
suddenly is there more rock or gravel

40:56.530 --> 40:59.370
included in your soil , right ?

40:59.899 --> 41:01.788
Sometimes they're not always that

41:01.788 --> 41:04.010
evident . Sometimes they're really hard

41:04.010 --> 41:06.232
to see . Right ? But when you recognize

41:06.232 --> 41:08.560
that . You can then adjust your

41:08.560 --> 41:11.169
excavation strategy to make sure that

41:11.169 --> 41:13.113
you are excavating in the best way

41:13.113 --> 41:16.729
possible . We

41:16.729 --> 41:20.100
maintain a grid system for spatial

41:20.100 --> 41:21.933
control , right ? We need to put

41:21.933 --> 41:23.822
controls out there so that we can

41:23.822 --> 41:25.933
document what we're finding and where

41:25.933 --> 41:28.156
we're finding it , and how that relates

41:28.156 --> 41:30.100
to the other things that are being

41:30.100 --> 41:32.211
found . This is a B-24 airplane crash

41:32.211 --> 41:34.433
in Papua New Guinea , and each of the ,

41:34.433 --> 41:36.656
the image in the sort of bottom right ,

41:36.656 --> 41:38.822
you'll notice that each of those large

41:38.822 --> 41:42.729
boxes are 4 m by 4 m , or 4 yards by 4

41:42.729 --> 41:45.120
yards . That's big . So we work at a

41:45.120 --> 41:47.540
large scale , right ? Because sometimes

41:47.540 --> 41:49.707
we need to excavate a large portion of

41:49.707 --> 41:51.873
an airplane crash . So we have adapted

41:52.280 --> 41:54.719
and designed all of our methods that we

41:54.719 --> 41:57.040
use in the field for the specific goal

41:57.040 --> 41:59.520
of recovering remains , right ? From

41:59.520 --> 42:02.570
our very unique archaeological contexts .

42:04.469 --> 42:07.469
Um , we adjust those methods and

42:07.469 --> 42:09.590
techniques depending upon what we've

42:09.590 --> 42:11.949
got to go do , right ? So here in image

42:11.949 --> 42:14.110
one in the top left , we're using a

42:14.110 --> 42:16.850
small excavator to strip off the top

42:16.850 --> 42:19.469
layer of soil to be able to create a

42:19.469 --> 42:21.780
smooth surface to see if there are any

42:21.780 --> 42:24.629
differences in that soil texture or

42:24.629 --> 42:26.550
soil color , right ? So that's an

42:26.550 --> 42:28.828
exploratory sort of method that we use .

42:29.610 --> 42:31.969
Uh , image number 2 underneath it is

42:31.969 --> 42:34.025
dry screening . Rocky already showed

42:34.025 --> 42:36.280
some images of that . We also use wet

42:36.280 --> 42:38.689
screening for really dense clay , like

42:38.689 --> 42:40.989
if you would think Vietnam rice paddies

42:41.169 --> 42:43.489
or some farmers' fields , right ? You

42:43.489 --> 42:45.929
can't push that clay through a screen

42:45.929 --> 42:48.889
without adding some water to it . The

42:48.889 --> 42:51.610
screens we use , the openings in the

42:51.610 --> 42:55.250
mesh are specifically designed to

42:55.250 --> 42:57.770
ensure we cannot miss a tooth , right ?

42:57.889 --> 43:00.770
The opening of those mesh is just under

43:00.770 --> 43:04.290
25 inch , right ? And it's specifically

43:04.290 --> 43:06.409
designed that way . Um , we also

43:06.409 --> 43:08.353
designed them to be very durable ,

43:08.353 --> 43:10.465
right ? To hold up over the course of

43:10.465 --> 43:12.870
the mission . Uh , image 3 is , you

43:12.870 --> 43:14.909
know , the careful close excavation

43:14.909 --> 43:16.853
when you start to find things that

43:16.853 --> 43:18.687
might have very tight contextual

43:18.687 --> 43:20.798
relationships to each other . We back

43:20.798 --> 43:22.949
off from those big excavations or

43:22.949 --> 43:25.060
bigger tools and get back down to the

43:25.060 --> 43:27.282
small tools that most people think of ,

43:27.282 --> 43:28.893
you know , when you think of

43:28.893 --> 43:31.116
archaeology , you know , we do stop and

43:31.116 --> 43:33.282
get our little paintbrushes out . That

43:33.282 --> 43:35.449
happens . Um , I've got a whole kit of

43:35.449 --> 43:37.505
paintbrushes and little bamboo tools

43:37.505 --> 43:39.671
for this sort of thing . And then , of

43:39.671 --> 43:39.540
course , as you've already heard , we

43:39.540 --> 43:42.179
do work underwater . Um , we've worked

43:42.179 --> 43:45.699
at depths of up to 250 ft below the

43:45.699 --> 43:48.159
surface and have found success doing

43:48.159 --> 43:50.979
that . Um , so we're actively running

43:50.979 --> 43:53.201
excavations that way and we actively do

43:53.201 --> 43:55.368
underwater surveys , which is where we

43:55.368 --> 43:57.820
have a small vessel and it tows a side

43:57.820 --> 44:00.340
scan sonar or a magnetometer behind the

44:00.340 --> 44:02.620
boat that lets us find things on the

44:02.620 --> 44:06.429
sea floor . Um ,

44:06.750 --> 44:08.694
the disinterment of unknowns is an

44:08.694 --> 44:11.229
ongoing process . We do it , um , every

44:11.229 --> 44:14.270
year , um , depending upon the weather ,

44:14.429 --> 44:16.651
right ? So we do a lot of disinterments

44:16.651 --> 44:18.818
at the Manila National Cemetery in the

44:18.818 --> 44:20.873
Philippines , but you can only go do

44:20.873 --> 44:23.040
that from about the middle of November

44:23.040 --> 44:25.040
through to the middle to the end of

44:25.040 --> 44:27.500
March because that's the dry season and

44:27.500 --> 44:29.620
by dry season , I mean just there's

44:29.620 --> 44:31.787
really the wet season and the really ,

44:31.787 --> 44:33.898
really wet season , but we go do that

44:33.898 --> 44:36.231
in the dry season to be able to do that .

44:36.231 --> 44:39.560
We also actively do disinterments of

44:39.580 --> 44:41.636
remains from the . National Memorial

44:41.636 --> 44:43.691
Cemetery of the Pacific or the Punch

44:43.691 --> 44:45.802
Bowl . And across the summer season ,

44:45.802 --> 44:48.050
um , we will be running an extended ,

44:48.320 --> 44:51.010
uh , disinterment program throughout

44:51.010 --> 44:53.177
European national cemeteries , right ?

44:53.177 --> 44:55.290
So we're actively working on to bring

44:55.290 --> 44:56.959
those service members home .

44:59.459 --> 45:02.870
OK . Moving on to the laboratory . So

45:03.139 --> 45:05.195
once we've collected evidence in the

45:05.195 --> 45:07.260
field , remains or material evidence

45:07.260 --> 45:09.593
like keys , rings , watches , dog tents ,

45:09.593 --> 45:11.760
and things like that , they're brought

45:11.760 --> 45:13.982
back to our laboratory . Evidence found

45:13.982 --> 45:16.093
in the European Mediterranean Theater

45:16.093 --> 45:18.149
goes to our laboratory in Nebraska .

45:18.149 --> 45:20.371
Evidence recovered in the Pacific comes

45:20.371 --> 45:22.427
home to Hawaii . Um , at all times ,

45:22.427 --> 45:24.371
whenever remains are being moved ,

45:24.371 --> 45:26.629
honors are rendered . Right . They're

45:26.629 --> 45:28.909
always put in cases with American flags

45:28.909 --> 45:30.853
on them , right ? When remains are

45:30.853 --> 45:33.199
going onto a plane , we render honors

45:33.199 --> 45:35.360
to show respect . At the other end of

45:35.360 --> 45:37.582
the flight , when they come off , we do

45:37.582 --> 45:39.527
it again . When they arrive at the

45:39.527 --> 45:42.219
building , we do it again , right ? We

45:42.219 --> 45:45.000
are always showing respect that these

45:45.000 --> 45:47.870
individuals deserve . OK . So we've got

45:47.870 --> 45:50.092
our two laboratory locations like I was

45:50.092 --> 45:52.469
talking about . We've got one in uh

45:52.469 --> 45:54.247
Hawaii and we've got the one in

45:54.247 --> 45:56.830
Nebraska . And we are actively trying

45:56.830 --> 45:58.997
to build a new building in Nebraska to

45:58.997 --> 46:01.219
have a larger laboratory , to have more

46:01.219 --> 46:03.729
capacity to identify more individuals .

46:04.310 --> 46:06.254
Um , hopefully , that's gonna come

46:06.254 --> 46:08.477
around soon . We're still in the design

46:08.477 --> 46:10.620
and development phase . Our

46:10.620 --> 46:13.909
laboratories are accredited . What that

46:13.909 --> 46:16.870
means is that outside independent

46:16.870 --> 46:19.790
forensic experts come and review the

46:19.790 --> 46:22.909
work that our laboratory does . Every 4

46:22.909 --> 46:24.409
years , they do a complete

46:24.409 --> 46:26.989
re-accreditation and every 3 years in

46:26.989 --> 46:29.267
between , they do a surveillance visit .

46:29.267 --> 46:31.433
They look at our SOPs . They make sure

46:31.433 --> 46:33.600
that we're doing best practice for our

46:33.600 --> 46:35.767
discipline . They make sure that we're

46:35.767 --> 46:37.933
following our SOPs . They make sure we

46:37.933 --> 46:39.933
have the correct training protocols

46:39.933 --> 46:42.100
that we're following all of those . So

46:42.100 --> 46:43.933
these outside experts come in to

46:43.933 --> 46:45.989
double-check to make sure that we're

46:45.989 --> 46:47.822
doing everything to the absolute

46:47.822 --> 46:49.600
highest scientific standard for

46:49.600 --> 46:51.774
forensic anthropology , um , and other

46:51.774 --> 46:55.129
disciplines across our laboratory . Um ,

46:55.679 --> 46:57.679
the laboratory is made up of a wide

46:57.679 --> 46:59.679
variety of disciplines . You've got

46:59.679 --> 47:01.735
archaeologists , you've got forensic

47:01.735 --> 47:01.439
anthropologists that do skeletal

47:01.439 --> 47:03.879
analysis . We've also got forensic

47:03.879 --> 47:06.439
odontologists that do tooth comparison .

47:06.719 --> 47:09.000
We have forensic chemists for our

47:09.000 --> 47:11.600
isotope program , right ? So we're a

47:11.600 --> 47:14.040
broad group of people working on these

47:14.040 --> 47:17.600
challenges . So archaeology , like we

47:17.600 --> 47:19.489
talked about , right ? Here is an

47:19.489 --> 47:21.656
example from that Papua New Guinea B24

47:21.656 --> 47:23.959
crash where a watch was found in very

47:23.959 --> 47:26.320
close association with some hand and

47:26.320 --> 47:29.149
wrist bones . And even though that

47:29.149 --> 47:31.038
watch doesn't have a name on it ,

47:31.038 --> 47:32.927
because we did careful controlled

47:32.927 --> 47:34.538
excavation , we can make the

47:34.538 --> 47:36.760
determination that that watch goes with

47:36.760 --> 47:38.927
the individual whose bones those are .

47:39.969 --> 47:42.810
OK . We have material evidence . This

47:42.810 --> 47:44.810
provides information about the loss

47:44.810 --> 47:46.754
incident , right ? So we could get

47:46.754 --> 47:49.209
identification tags , we could get a

47:49.209 --> 47:51.810
ring that maybe has initials , right ,

47:51.889 --> 47:54.889
of a married couple on the inside or a

47:54.889 --> 47:57.129
date , right ? That can provide us

47:57.129 --> 47:59.219
information . We can also get

47:59.239 --> 48:02.020
information uh that we like to call um

48:02.290 --> 48:04.689
minimum number of individuals , right ?

48:04.770 --> 48:06.881
If you think of an aircraft that only

48:06.881 --> 48:09.129
has 2 people aboard it , And they each

48:09.129 --> 48:12.360
have a face mask . And you find both

48:12.360 --> 48:14.520
face masks , right ? That tells you

48:14.520 --> 48:16.919
that 2 people were there , right ? So

48:16.919 --> 48:18.919
it can give us valuable information

48:18.919 --> 48:22.510
like that . We also do

48:22.510 --> 48:25.070
skeletal analysis , right ? So forensic

48:25.070 --> 48:27.850
anthropology , right ? We're looking at

48:27.850 --> 48:30.080
is it bone ? Is it human bone ? How

48:30.080 --> 48:32.560
many individuals are present , right ?

48:32.850 --> 48:34.889
And we also complete a biological

48:34.889 --> 48:37.209
profile to the extent possible , right ?

48:37.330 --> 48:40.129
If you have a lot of remains , you can

48:40.129 --> 48:42.240
do a full biological profile , but if

48:42.240 --> 48:44.296
you only have a very small amount of

48:44.296 --> 48:46.518
remains , you might not be able to make

48:46.518 --> 48:48.518
some determinations . But simply by

48:48.518 --> 48:50.685
looking at the skeleton , if we have a

48:50.685 --> 48:50.620
complete skeleton , we can figure out

48:50.620 --> 48:53.899
the , age , ancestry , and stature or

48:53.899 --> 48:55.955
how tall something looks , simply by

48:55.955 --> 48:58.729
looking at the bones . This work

48:58.729 --> 49:00.689
specifically , the anthropology is

49:00.689 --> 49:03.570
conducted in the proverbial blind . So

49:03.570 --> 49:06.780
an analyst is given a box of remains

49:07.129 --> 49:09.351
and they're given a tracking number and

49:09.351 --> 49:11.573
they're told that they can go use table

49:11.573 --> 49:14.429
33 . And that's all they're told . We

49:14.429 --> 49:16.540
don't tell them how many people might

49:16.540 --> 49:18.651
be in the box . We don't tell them if

49:18.651 --> 49:18.550
it's a plane crash . We don't tell them

49:18.550 --> 49:20.661
if it's a disinterment . Now , why do

49:20.661 --> 49:24.010
we do this ? We do it to avoid bias

49:24.590 --> 49:26.534
because we do not want to bias the

49:26.534 --> 49:30.129
analyst . Into already having like a

49:30.129 --> 49:32.462
priori conclusion about who it might be ,

49:32.610 --> 49:34.889
right ? We want them to draw all of

49:34.889 --> 49:37.000
their conclusions from their analysis

49:37.000 --> 49:39.056
of the skeleton , right ? And that's

49:39.056 --> 49:42.879
very important . Only after that report

49:43.080 --> 49:46.780
has been finalized . And reviewed and

49:46.780 --> 49:48.780
reviewed again and reviewed a third

49:48.780 --> 49:50.669
time , do we then do a comparison

49:50.669 --> 49:52.891
between the conclusions from the report

49:52.891 --> 49:54.724
and the record that we have of a

49:54.724 --> 49:57.469
missing service member from Right , so

49:57.469 --> 49:59.850
it's very important . The

49:59.850 --> 50:01.906
anthropologist works separately from

50:01.906 --> 50:04.610
the odontologist , right ? And we

50:04.610 --> 50:06.443
specifically do that because the

50:06.443 --> 50:08.610
odontologist has to do an antemortem ,

50:08.610 --> 50:11.570
postmortem comparison of the teeth to

50:11.570 --> 50:13.810
the dental records that we have on file

50:13.810 --> 50:16.870
for the missing person , right ? And so

50:17.250 --> 50:19.083
we do get this , right ? This is

50:19.083 --> 50:21.194
another big aspect . We have forensic

50:21.194 --> 50:23.528
odontologists on staff who do this work .

50:23.528 --> 50:26.320
Um , teeth are fabulous , right ? If

50:26.320 --> 50:28.487
you've got cavities and you've been to

50:28.487 --> 50:30.653
the dentist , there's a record of it .

50:30.669 --> 50:32.780
Military service members are required

50:32.780 --> 50:34.947
to go to the dentist once a year , and

50:34.947 --> 50:37.113
their records are on file . So we have

50:37.113 --> 50:39.225
those records from past conflicts and

50:39.225 --> 50:41.169
we're able to do this when we find

50:41.169 --> 50:43.336
teeth . Teeth with teeth with fillings

50:43.336 --> 50:45.447
in them , love them . They're the one

50:45.447 --> 50:47.613
of the very best things to find . It's

50:47.613 --> 50:49.949
a really strong line of evidence , OK ?

50:50.610 --> 50:53.129
We also have radiographic comparison ,

50:53.320 --> 50:55.770
your clavicles or your collarbone are

50:55.770 --> 50:58.709
as unique as your fingerprints . Every

50:58.709 --> 51:00.876
single person in here , your clavicles

51:00.899 --> 51:02.843
are unique to every other person ,

51:02.843 --> 51:05.489
right ? And back during World War II

51:05.489 --> 51:07.378
and Korean War , you had to get a

51:07.378 --> 51:09.545
tuberculosis test . And it was a chest

51:09.545 --> 51:11.822
X-ray . We have all those chest X-rays .

51:12.080 --> 51:14.302
We have taken , we have restored them ,

51:14.302 --> 51:16.524
taken photographs of them , and what we

51:16.524 --> 51:18.747
can do is we can then take remains that

51:18.747 --> 51:20.969
we disinterred , take an X-ray of those

51:20.969 --> 51:23.191
clavicles , and then we have a matching

51:23.191 --> 51:25.191
program to match the modern X-ray .

51:25.191 --> 51:27.760
Clavicle bones to what we have on file .

51:28.199 --> 51:30.659
So another independent line of effort ,

51:31.479 --> 51:33.701
separate from the teeth , separate from

51:33.701 --> 51:35.868
the rest of the skeleton , right ? And

51:35.868 --> 51:37.701
these are all done independently

51:37.701 --> 51:39.923
because we want them all to come to the

51:39.923 --> 51:42.510
same conclusion . And the more lines of

51:42.510 --> 51:44.639
evidence you have , the stronger your

51:44.639 --> 51:48.090
identification becomes . OK .

51:48.530 --> 51:51.050
We also have isotope analysis . This is

51:51.050 --> 51:53.250
fundamentally you are what you eat ,

51:53.729 --> 51:56.129
right ? So I grew up in Boise , Idaho ,

51:56.570 --> 51:58.403
and let's say someone in here is

51:58.403 --> 52:00.570
probably a lot of you who grew up here

52:00.570 --> 52:02.681
in Michigan . If we took samples from

52:02.681 --> 52:04.840
me and samples from one of you . Our

52:04.840 --> 52:08.360
scientists can tell which one of us was

52:08.360 --> 52:11.159
from Idaho and which one of us was from

52:11.159 --> 52:13.080
Michigan . So while this doesn't

52:13.080 --> 52:15.399
identify somebody , it can help us sort

52:15.399 --> 52:18.260
out remains and go that these remains

52:18.520 --> 52:20.742
all go together and these other remains

52:20.742 --> 52:22.909
over here all go together , right ? So

52:22.909 --> 52:26.520
another tool that we have . The

52:26.520 --> 52:29.310
identification process , right ? So

52:29.310 --> 52:31.477
multiple lines of evidence , I've said

52:31.477 --> 52:33.699
it several times now . The more of

52:33.699 --> 52:37.379
these we have , the better . Right ?

52:37.739 --> 52:39.961
But you don't always have all of them .

52:40.239 --> 52:42.370
At the minimum , you've got to have

52:42.370 --> 52:45.060
forensic anthropology or , and or

52:45.060 --> 52:47.227
forensic odontology because we have to

52:47.227 --> 52:49.659
have remains to make an identification ,

52:49.939 --> 52:52.106
right ? If we just have a dog tag , we

52:52.106 --> 52:54.328
can't make an identification , so we do

52:54.328 --> 52:56.383
need remains . But you don't have to

52:56.383 --> 52:58.328
have all of those things , right ?

52:58.870 --> 53:01.148
Accompanying that is quality assurance .

53:01.159 --> 53:03.270
We have a specific group of people in

53:03.270 --> 53:05.103
our laboratory that maintain our

53:05.103 --> 53:07.326
quality assurance program , um , and it

53:07.326 --> 53:09.870
is very , very rigorous , right ? So a

53:09.870 --> 53:11.926
report is written , and then it goes

53:11.926 --> 53:14.110
through a manager review . I'm , I'm

53:14.110 --> 53:16.580
the manager review for all of the field

53:16.580 --> 53:19.030
reports . Then it's peer-reviewed by

53:19.114 --> 53:21.170
Another member of the laboratory and

53:21.170 --> 53:23.225
the analyst and the peer reviewer go

53:23.225 --> 53:25.336
back and forth to make sure that that

53:25.336 --> 53:27.503
report and the analysis is the best it

53:27.503 --> 53:29.725
could be . It comes back to the manager

53:29.725 --> 53:31.781
a second time for a number , another

53:31.781 --> 53:34.715
review , and only at that time of the

53:34.715 --> 53:36.937
passing that second manager review , do

53:36.937 --> 53:39.104
we make a decision that that report is

53:39.104 --> 53:41.955
final , right ? So quality assurance

53:41.955 --> 53:45.629
plays a very big role . OK . A case

53:45.629 --> 53:47.629
example that we'll run through real

53:47.629 --> 53:49.709
quick . Korean War case , we've got

53:49.709 --> 53:53.479
approximately 7600 missing , right ?

53:54.110 --> 53:56.949
And our historians , right ? They do a

53:56.949 --> 53:58.893
huge amount of work . I've already

53:58.893 --> 54:00.949
mentioned it . They do the front-end

54:00.949 --> 54:03.550
work . And so , looking at a specific

54:03.550 --> 54:05.772
battle , they've figured out that there

54:05.772 --> 54:09.429
are 71 soldiers missing in action from

54:09.429 --> 54:12.389
that engagement . So , that is really

54:12.389 --> 54:15.760
important . We got from 7600 down to 71 ,

54:16.110 --> 54:18.110
right ? That's like 1% . So they've

54:18.110 --> 54:20.510
narrowed that pool of who we need to be

54:20.510 --> 54:24.110
looking for , OK . And so

54:24.110 --> 54:26.229
we disinterred those remains from the

54:26.229 --> 54:28.118
National Memorial Cemetery in the

54:28.118 --> 54:31.270
Pacific , right ? We've got evidence of

54:31.270 --> 54:33.437
possible commingling , which is just a

54:33.437 --> 54:35.714
fancy scientific word for all mixed up ,

54:35.714 --> 54:37.770
which means you might have more than

54:37.770 --> 54:39.826
one person in a single casket . I'll

54:39.826 --> 54:41.992
talk more about that in a little bit ,

54:41.992 --> 54:43.881
right ? Additional for historical

54:43.881 --> 54:46.389
research gets us down to 11 possible

54:46.389 --> 54:48.500
individuals . So historians have done

54:48.500 --> 54:50.611
even more work for us . We thank them

54:50.611 --> 54:52.833
enormously . We could not do it without

54:52.833 --> 54:56.800
them . Next up , we took a few samples

54:56.800 --> 55:00.040
for isotope analysis . All those fancy

55:00.040 --> 55:02.239
numbers mean that everything in purple

55:02.239 --> 55:04.800
is the same person , right ? That's

55:04.800 --> 55:06.911
what that means , right ? Because how

55:06.911 --> 55:08.856
close those numbers are together .

55:11.370 --> 55:13.592
Moving forward , we move forward to DNA

55:13.592 --> 55:15.479
analysis after we do our isotope

55:15.479 --> 55:17.646
analysis . So one of the things you'll

55:17.646 --> 55:19.757
notice is , because we know all those

55:19.757 --> 55:21.669
bones are the same person ,

55:24.149 --> 55:26.429
We , um , we don't have to take a bone

55:26.429 --> 55:28.540
sample from every single one of those

55:28.540 --> 55:30.651
bones to send to the DNA lab . We can

55:30.651 --> 55:32.762
just take a sample from one or two of

55:32.762 --> 55:35.030
them and send them in , right ? That

55:35.030 --> 55:38.110
saves us time because it keeps the DNA

55:38.110 --> 55:40.870
queue smaller and shorter , right ? And

55:40.870 --> 55:43.270
it also saves money , right ? Every one

55:43.270 --> 55:46.110
of those samples costs money and if we

55:46.110 --> 55:49.469
run only the samples we need to , that

55:49.469 --> 55:52.100
makes a more efficient process . OK ?

55:52.540 --> 55:56.159
So , here we are . Right ? Our DNA

55:56.379 --> 55:58.580
using next-generation sequencing , we

55:58.580 --> 56:01.060
were able to exclude 5 individuals from

56:01.060 --> 56:04.260
our historic shortlist , and we were

56:04.260 --> 56:06.371
able through mitochondrial DNA get it

56:06.371 --> 56:09.060
down to 2 , right ? So we're getting

56:09.060 --> 56:10.689
closer , OK ?

56:12.739 --> 56:16.070
Biological profile , right ? So ,

56:16.340 --> 56:18.118
remember , done in the blinds ,

56:18.118 --> 56:20.173
somebody figured out that this was a

56:20.173 --> 56:22.340
male , probably of European ancestry ,

56:22.340 --> 56:24.540
20 to 25 years old and about 72 inches

56:24.540 --> 56:27.260
tall . Also interestingly , you'll see

56:27.260 --> 56:30.899
in there , um there is a letter in his ,

56:31.020 --> 56:34.260
there's a piece of a document in his

56:34.260 --> 56:36.459
personnel file that talks about how

56:36.459 --> 56:39.360
he's got like a weird deposit of bone

56:39.360 --> 56:41.527
growing on the joints of his hands and

56:41.527 --> 56:43.860
his feet . Right . That's pretty unique .

56:44.300 --> 56:45.967
OK . So that gives us another

56:45.967 --> 56:49.820
indication . Finally , dental , right ?

56:49.979 --> 56:53.020
This is really unique . What you see

56:53.020 --> 56:55.459
there in the right-hand image , that

56:55.459 --> 56:58.750
little arrow is pointing to a tooth

56:59.020 --> 57:02.419
root residual . So when this individual

57:02.419 --> 57:05.379
had this tooth pulled , they didn't get

57:05.379 --> 57:09.270
all of it . Right ? So , an

57:09.270 --> 57:11.492
interesting thing there , that's very ,

57:11.492 --> 57:13.714
very unique and so we were able to find

57:13.714 --> 57:15.714
that and that is what led us to our

57:15.714 --> 57:17.881
single individual when all those lines

57:17.881 --> 57:20.469
of effort go together , right ? And

57:20.469 --> 57:23.050
here in his dental charting , it says

57:23.550 --> 57:27.449
residual tooth , OK ? We also used ,

57:27.510 --> 57:30.189
uh , here's that clavicle matching

57:30.189 --> 57:33.629
thing again . So , Moving forward ,

57:33.750 --> 57:35.830
here are all of the different things

57:35.830 --> 57:37.629
that we used to make that

57:37.629 --> 57:41.169
identification . Special

57:41.169 --> 57:43.225
projects , right ? What is a special

57:43.225 --> 57:45.447
project ? It is literally a delineation

57:45.447 --> 57:47.558
of space and time where a grouping of

57:47.558 --> 57:49.669
remains can be . A number of remains

57:49.669 --> 57:52.260
can be grouped together and worked as a

57:52.260 --> 57:56.100
single group , right ? OK . We have

57:56.100 --> 57:58.322
dedicated teams for each of our special

57:58.322 --> 58:00.544
projects , right ? And it's complicated

58:00.544 --> 58:02.489
by extensive combing one . So even

58:02.489 --> 58:04.322
though it looks like there's one

58:04.322 --> 58:06.044
skeleton laying there , on the

58:06.044 --> 58:07.933
right-hand side , each color is a

58:07.933 --> 58:10.179
different DNA sequence . So when we

58:10.179 --> 58:12.346
disinterred and opened that casket and

58:12.346 --> 58:14.568
sent the remains , sent out samples for

58:14.568 --> 58:17.919
DNA , we came back with 9

58:18.219 --> 58:20.620
different individuals out of a single

58:20.620 --> 58:22.695
casket . This is very common for

58:22.695 --> 58:25.334
Cabanatuan . It's very common for a

58:25.334 --> 58:28.745
Normaru . So you have to solve this

58:29.215 --> 58:31.294
so you can get all the pieces of the

58:31.294 --> 58:33.375
blue dye from a bunch of different

58:33.375 --> 58:36.395
caskets back together and then you go

58:36.395 --> 58:38.562
forward with that biological profile .

58:39.429 --> 58:42.320
OK . Here's a list of the projects um

58:42.429 --> 58:44.540
that we are currently working or have

58:44.540 --> 58:46.651
recently wrapped up , and you can see

58:46.651 --> 58:48.762
the approximate number of unaccounted

58:48.762 --> 58:50.985
for and you can also see an approximate

58:50.985 --> 58:53.207
number of IDs for the project to date .

58:53.429 --> 58:55.040
You'll notice that we put an

58:55.040 --> 58:57.151
approximate number up there because I

58:57.151 --> 58:59.373
had to turn these slides in 2 weeks ago

58:59.373 --> 59:01.373
and we've made identification since

59:01.373 --> 59:03.540
then . So if I'd put a fixed number up

59:03.540 --> 59:05.540
there , I'd already be wrong in the

59:05.540 --> 59:07.762
best way possible , right ? Cause we've

59:07.762 --> 59:09.909
made more identifications . OK . So

59:09.909 --> 59:11.798
here's an example from Cabanatuan

59:11.798 --> 59:13.965
Prison Camp , right ? You can see each

59:13.965 --> 59:16.076
skeleton represents a casket that was

59:16.076 --> 59:18.242
taken out of the ground . Common Grave

59:18.242 --> 59:21.709
717 . 13 accessions into the DPAA

59:21.709 --> 59:24.310
laboratory , originally associated with

59:24.310 --> 59:28.159
14 individuals . OK ?

59:28.510 --> 59:31.179
But a single casket usually has 2 to 8

59:31.179 --> 59:33.346
different DNA sequences , so that is a

59:33.346 --> 59:35.649
big challenge that we face . Um , we've

59:35.649 --> 59:37.760
been doing this a long time . We know

59:37.760 --> 59:39.927
how to resolve this , but it does take

59:39.927 --> 59:43.879
time . OK . To

59:43.879 --> 59:47.219
summarize Identification results is

59:47.219 --> 59:50.500
exhaustive , right ? We do everything

59:50.500 --> 59:53.719
we possibly can , right ? We start with

59:54.340 --> 59:56.229
great research with very talented

59:56.229 --> 59:59.219
historians , OK ? We move out into

59:59.219 --> 01:00:01.219
detailed , controlled , methodical

01:00:01.219 --> 01:00:03.620
field archaeology , right ? We use

01:00:03.620 --> 01:00:05.860
multiple lines of evidence in the

01:00:05.860 --> 01:00:08.027
laboratory to make sure that we've got

01:00:08.027 --> 01:00:10.520
as strong an identification as possible .

01:00:11.790 --> 01:00:15.409
So , and then in fiscal year 2025 ,

01:00:15.580 --> 01:00:19.510
which ended uh October , no ,

01:00:19.590 --> 01:00:22.060
and in September 30th of last year , we

01:00:22.060 --> 01:00:26.040
accounted for 231 individuals . So far

01:00:26.040 --> 01:00:29.120
this year , we have accounted for 116 .

01:00:29.399 --> 01:00:32.159
We started counting on October 1st of

01:00:32.159 --> 01:00:36.110
2025 . 116 is the greatest number

01:00:36.110 --> 01:00:38.479
of identifications this agency has made

01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:40.959
at this point in the fiscal year ever .

01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:44.080
So we are on a pace unlike we have ever

01:00:44.080 --> 01:00:46.560
seen before , um , due to a ton of hard

01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:50.530
work . OK . That

01:00:50.530 --> 01:00:53.310
is my talk . Thank you very much .

01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:04.639
I'm gonna turn uh the microphone over

01:01:04.639 --> 01:01:07.709
to Julie , um , to talk to you all

01:01:07.709 --> 01:01:08.580
about DNA .

01:01:17.459 --> 01:01:19.780
All right . Thank you , Owen . Can

01:01:19.780 --> 01:01:22.899
everybody hear me OK ? Excellent . My

01:01:22.899 --> 01:01:24.929
name is Julie Deres . I am the

01:01:24.929 --> 01:01:27.040
technical leader with the Family

01:01:27.040 --> 01:01:29.659
Reference sample Group at the Armed

01:01:29.659 --> 01:01:31.826
Forces DNA Identification Laboratory .

01:01:31.860 --> 01:01:34.179
So I'm actually the scientist who leads

01:01:34.179 --> 01:01:36.540
all the scientists collecting and

01:01:36.540 --> 01:01:38.429
processing your references as you

01:01:38.429 --> 01:01:40.651
donate them . Uh , I'm gonna talk about

01:01:40.651 --> 01:01:42.979
DNA analysis in the identification

01:01:42.979 --> 01:01:45.540
process today , uh , as Doctor O'Leary

01:01:45.540 --> 01:01:48.040
kind of set me up for . Once the

01:01:48.040 --> 01:01:50.399
references get to us and the remains

01:01:50.399 --> 01:01:52.510
get to us and all the testing that we

01:01:52.510 --> 01:01:54.677
do . Uh , so just a quick disclaimer ,

01:01:54.677 --> 01:01:56.955
any opinions that I express are my own ,

01:01:57.120 --> 01:02:00.979
any science is fact . So

01:02:00.979 --> 01:02:03.090
just as an overview , I'm gonna start

01:02:03.090 --> 01:02:05.090
with just discussing our laboratory

01:02:05.090 --> 01:02:08.580
structure with you , um , what unique

01:02:08.580 --> 01:02:10.691
characteristics we bring to the table

01:02:10.691 --> 01:02:12.739
in the identification process . I'm

01:02:12.739 --> 01:02:14.850
gonna talk about some new DNA testing

01:02:14.850 --> 01:02:16.795
methods that have come online more

01:02:16.795 --> 01:02:19.219
recently , and then the most important

01:02:19.219 --> 01:02:21.540
part , your role in the identification

01:02:21.540 --> 01:02:25.469
process . So the Armed Forces DNA

01:02:25.469 --> 01:02:28.600
Identification Laboratory is a division

01:02:28.600 --> 01:02:30.870
of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner

01:02:30.870 --> 01:02:33.929
System . We fall under the Defense

01:02:33.929 --> 01:02:36.570
Health Agency and we are located on

01:02:36.570 --> 01:02:38.737
Dover Air Force Base in lovely Dover ,

01:02:38.737 --> 01:02:41.090
Delaware . Um , we were actually

01:02:41.090 --> 01:02:44.570
established in 1990 and

01:02:44.929 --> 01:02:47.729
charged with using DNA identification

01:02:48.090 --> 01:02:50.810
to identify remains of US service

01:02:50.810 --> 01:02:53.770
members from current and past conflicts .

01:02:53.850 --> 01:02:56.810
So we do both . Um , we are an

01:02:56.810 --> 01:02:59.449
accredited forensic DNA laboratory . We

01:02:59.449 --> 01:03:03.250
have lines of accreditation both to the

01:03:03.250 --> 01:03:05.649
forensic and general laboratory

01:03:05.969 --> 01:03:08.610
guidelines . Um , and we have been a

01:03:08.610 --> 01:03:10.666
partner , a mission partner with the

01:03:10.666 --> 01:03:13.550
Defense POW MIA Accounting agency since

01:03:13.550 --> 01:03:14.500
1990 .

01:03:17.469 --> 01:03:19.790
We have had many notable casework

01:03:19.790 --> 01:03:22.469
advances over the years , um , from

01:03:22.469 --> 01:03:25.669
1992 when the first mitochondrial DNA

01:03:25.669 --> 01:03:29.520
testing was performed to now . Uh ,

01:03:29.629 --> 01:03:32.429
we have developed multiple testing

01:03:32.429 --> 01:03:36.350
techniques and approaches as we deal

01:03:36.350 --> 01:03:38.461
with many of the different challenges

01:03:38.461 --> 01:03:41.060
that come with this unique set of , of

01:03:41.060 --> 01:03:44.879
casework samples . Um , we have our

01:03:44.879 --> 01:03:47.101
demineralization buffer . You can see a

01:03:47.101 --> 01:03:49.580
picture there . We start with a , a

01:03:49.580 --> 01:03:52.239
very small cutting of bone . We then

01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:55.239
actually , um , powder that bone , and

01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:57.459
then that goes into the extraction

01:03:57.459 --> 01:03:59.919
buffer . By the end of the procedure ,

01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:02.560
it's actually fully solubilized , which

01:04:02.560 --> 01:04:04.919
means all of that . That powder bone is

01:04:04.919 --> 01:04:08.560
now in my solution and ready for DNA

01:04:08.560 --> 01:04:10.782
extraction . So that was actually a , a

01:04:10.782 --> 01:04:13.040
huge advance for us to be able to use

01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:16.280
all of the DNA in that sample . Um , in

01:04:16.280 --> 01:04:19.320
2016 , we implemented next-generation

01:04:19.320 --> 01:04:22.239
sequencing for mitochondrial DNA and

01:04:22.239 --> 01:04:24.000
that was actually a , a huge

01:04:24.000 --> 01:04:27.179
advancement . That really set us up to

01:04:27.179 --> 01:04:29.780
start researching the ability to use

01:04:29.780 --> 01:04:31.724
SNPs , which are single nucleotide

01:04:31.724 --> 01:04:33.836
polymorphisms , and I'll get into all

01:04:33.836 --> 01:04:35.780
of that a little later . Um , most

01:04:35.780 --> 01:04:37.739
recently , we have validated and

01:04:37.739 --> 01:04:40.780
implemented SNP casework as of 2025 ,

01:04:40.870 --> 01:04:42.203
just about a year ago .

01:04:45.310 --> 01:04:47.310
So I don't know how many of you are

01:04:47.310 --> 01:04:49.532
biology majors or are familiar with the

01:04:49.532 --> 01:04:51.532
basics of DNA testing , but just to

01:04:51.532 --> 01:04:53.899
cover it pretty quickly , um , we have

01:04:53.899 --> 01:04:56.010
two different types of DNA that we're

01:04:56.010 --> 01:04:58.066
actually looking for and testing for

01:04:58.066 --> 01:05:00.500
when we're doing this work . Uh , we

01:05:00.500 --> 01:05:02.111
have nuclear DNA and we have

01:05:02.111 --> 01:05:05.370
mitochondrial DNA . Both are present in ,

01:05:05.459 --> 01:05:08.340
in your cells , and both provide

01:05:08.340 --> 01:05:10.699
different information and , and

01:05:10.699 --> 01:05:13.060
different ways of being able to test

01:05:13.060 --> 01:05:16.000
and use that information . Uh , nuclear

01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:17.840
DNA is probably what you're more

01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:19.919
familiar with if you think of DNA

01:05:19.919 --> 01:05:22.399
testing , but there's only one copy per

01:05:22.399 --> 01:05:24.455
cell . Um , it's inherited from both

01:05:24.455 --> 01:05:26.121
your mother and your father .

01:05:26.121 --> 01:05:28.343
Mitochondrial DNA , on the other hand ,

01:05:28.360 --> 01:05:31.919
is present in many copies per cell . It

01:05:31.919 --> 01:05:35.020
is a smaller genome and it's circular

01:05:35.030 --> 01:05:37.197
in size , which actually makes it more

01:05:37.197 --> 01:05:39.197
stable and resistant to degradation

01:05:39.197 --> 01:05:41.780
over time . Um , that is inherited from

01:05:41.780 --> 01:05:44.020
your mother only , which is why when

01:05:44.020 --> 01:05:46.242
you're providing a DNA reference sample

01:05:46.242 --> 01:05:48.187
and you're speaking with us at the

01:05:48.187 --> 01:05:50.419
table , we want to go over your , your

01:05:50.419 --> 01:05:52.586
relationship to the service members so

01:05:52.586 --> 01:05:54.808
thoroughly . It , it makes a difference

01:05:54.808 --> 01:05:57.600
for testing . So sometimes people ask ,

01:05:57.750 --> 01:05:59.972
why do you start with mitochondrial DNA

01:05:59.972 --> 01:06:02.028
testing ? You know , that's , that's

01:06:02.028 --> 01:06:04.194
not what I'm used to when I hear about

01:06:04.194 --> 01:06:06.083
forensic DNA . And that really is

01:06:06.083 --> 01:06:08.250
because of the reasons that I stated .

01:06:08.250 --> 01:06:10.550
We have many copies for sell . Um , it

01:06:10.550 --> 01:06:13.100
is more robust , so it's , it's less ,

01:06:13.129 --> 01:06:15.780
it's more resistant to degradation . Um ,

01:06:16.149 --> 01:06:19.110
we are able to go out to further

01:06:19.110 --> 01:06:20.832
degrees of relatedness because

01:06:20.832 --> 01:06:23.669
mitochondrial DNA is passed unchanged

01:06:24.030 --> 01:06:26.086
from a mother to all of her children

01:06:26.086 --> 01:06:29.209
and down a maternal line . So that

01:06:29.209 --> 01:06:31.265
allows me to be able to collect many

01:06:31.265 --> 01:06:34.770
different relatives as references , um .

01:06:35.389 --> 01:06:37.689
It's excellent for highly degraded DNA

01:06:37.979 --> 01:06:41.129
and it allows us to sort DNA profiles ,

01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:43.500
um , much , much like what Doctor

01:06:43.500 --> 01:06:45.333
O'Leary described with doing the

01:06:45.333 --> 01:06:47.556
isotope testing . It allows us to say ,

01:06:47.556 --> 01:06:49.580
OK , these could be from the same

01:06:49.580 --> 01:06:51.469
individual , this could be from a

01:06:51.469 --> 01:06:53.358
different individual , even if it

01:06:53.358 --> 01:06:55.580
doesn't lead to a specific individual .

01:06:55.580 --> 01:06:58.729
It's a great first step . We also do

01:06:58.729 --> 01:07:01.659
nuclear DNA , um , testing , both Y

01:07:01.659 --> 01:07:04.419
chromosomal and autosomal . Y

01:07:04.419 --> 01:07:06.790
chromosomal testing looks specifically

01:07:06.790 --> 01:07:09.860
at the male Y chromosome , and so only

01:07:09.860 --> 01:07:12.459
males are eligible to donate for this

01:07:12.459 --> 01:07:15.659
test . Um , we have validated a low

01:07:15.659 --> 01:07:18.070
copy number method which allows us to

01:07:18.070 --> 01:07:21.500
look at a much smaller amount of DNA

01:07:21.500 --> 01:07:23.379
and that's specific to the , the

01:07:23.379 --> 01:07:26.179
unknown samples , the skeletal remains .

01:07:26.620 --> 01:07:29.179
Um , this is actually not used by the

01:07:29.179 --> 01:07:31.780
labs , but it's fully validated and has

01:07:31.780 --> 01:07:33.836
been accredited for our laboratory .

01:07:36.020 --> 01:07:38.540
We also do nuclear autosomal testing ,

01:07:38.620 --> 01:07:42.189
um , standard STR testing . That

01:07:42.189 --> 01:07:44.540
is more like what you would see from a

01:07:44.540 --> 01:07:47.590
criminalistic DNA laboratory . And so

01:07:47.590 --> 01:07:49.646
it doesn't always work with degraded

01:07:49.646 --> 01:07:53.189
samples . Um , we have been able to

01:07:53.189 --> 01:07:56.719
use forensically available kits . With

01:07:56.719 --> 01:07:58.760
some success , although that is why

01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:00.816
we've , we've moved on to additional

01:08:00.816 --> 01:08:03.038
methods because STR testing is probably

01:08:03.038 --> 01:08:05.093
our , our least successful method of

01:08:05.093 --> 01:08:08.320
testing . Um , we have a positive

01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:10.639
identification when we're able to get

01:08:10.639 --> 01:08:13.520
that testing to work because you're

01:08:13.520 --> 01:08:15.800
using more closely related individuals

01:08:15.800 --> 01:08:18.000
for the comparison . Um , but as you

01:08:18.000 --> 01:08:20.167
can see , my chart is limited in who I

01:08:20.167 --> 01:08:21.722
can collect for that type .

01:08:24.339 --> 01:08:26.779
So we actually have multiple validated

01:08:26.779 --> 01:08:29.660
methods of DNA extraction . Extraction

01:08:29.660 --> 01:08:33.060
is removing the DNA from , from the

01:08:33.060 --> 01:08:35.227
sample that we received , getting that

01:08:35.227 --> 01:08:37.393
isolated and purified in a way that we

01:08:37.393 --> 01:08:39.500
can do all of the remainder of our

01:08:39.500 --> 01:08:41.620
testing . Um , and ACTA , we actually

01:08:41.620 --> 01:08:44.319
have 4 validated extraction methods .

01:08:44.870 --> 01:08:47.160
And that's just because there are many

01:08:47.160 --> 01:08:49.839
different circumstances and conditions

01:08:49.839 --> 01:08:52.589
that the unknown remains come to us and

01:08:53.000 --> 01:08:56.160
we need to be able to , to assess the ,

01:08:56.279 --> 01:08:59.799
the quality , the um quantity of DNA

01:08:59.799 --> 01:09:01.799
and move forward with the type of

01:09:01.799 --> 01:09:03.799
extraction that works best for that

01:09:03.799 --> 01:09:07.709
sample . So

01:09:07.709 --> 01:09:09.790
as you can see , sample extraction

01:09:09.790 --> 01:09:12.870
method , um , really depends

01:09:12.870 --> 01:09:16.149
on what type of DNA or what type of

01:09:16.149 --> 01:09:18.260
sample that we have , and you can see

01:09:18.260 --> 01:09:20.350
our success rate varies quite a bit

01:09:20.350 --> 01:09:22.910
depending on um what type of testing

01:09:22.910 --> 01:09:25.243
we're doing . But as I mentioned before ,

01:09:25.243 --> 01:09:27.629
our mitochondrial DNA testing is always

01:09:27.629 --> 01:09:30.679
the most successful . Um , pretty much

01:09:30.679 --> 01:09:32.878
regardless of , of the element that we

01:09:32.878 --> 01:09:35.528
get and we have to test . Uh , overall ,

01:09:35.559 --> 01:09:37.670
success rates are generally very good

01:09:37.670 --> 01:09:39.337
with all of our methods , but

01:09:39.337 --> 01:09:41.226
mitochondrial is still the best .

01:09:43.770 --> 01:09:45.881
We have multiple methods just because

01:09:45.881 --> 01:09:48.048
we have to be able to be flexible . We

01:09:48.048 --> 01:09:50.689
have to be able to , to take the sample

01:09:50.689 --> 01:09:52.890
that we're given and do the best that

01:09:52.890 --> 01:09:55.112
we can with it depending on a number of

01:09:55.112 --> 01:09:58.399
different factors . We actually had the

01:09:58.399 --> 01:10:01.200
ability to work with uh an outside lab ,

01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:03.799
the Max Max Planck Institute , and send

01:10:03.799 --> 01:10:05.855
them some of the samples that we are

01:10:05.855 --> 01:10:07.855
receiving from DPA that we're doing

01:10:07.855 --> 01:10:10.077
this testing on . And they were able to

01:10:10.077 --> 01:10:12.243
compare our , some of our World War II

01:10:12.243 --> 01:10:14.839
and Korea samples to ancient DNA

01:10:14.839 --> 01:10:17.979
samples up to 40 years old and found

01:10:17.979 --> 01:10:20.839
that our DNA quality and quantity tends

01:10:20.839 --> 01:10:23.029
to be lower . And so that , that's

01:10:23.029 --> 01:10:25.140
where the challenge comes in for us .

01:10:25.140 --> 01:10:27.251
It's good to know that , um , and you

01:10:27.251 --> 01:10:29.251
can tell based on our success rates

01:10:29.251 --> 01:10:31.418
that we've , we've been very good at ,

01:10:31.418 --> 01:10:33.585
at figuring out the best methods , but

01:10:33.585 --> 01:10:35.696
this really kind of gives you a sense

01:10:35.696 --> 01:10:35.399
of what we're dealing with when we are

01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:39.310
testing these samples . I think

01:10:39.310 --> 01:10:41.366
I mentioned before that one of our ,

01:10:41.366 --> 01:10:43.709
our big advances was whole genome

01:10:43.709 --> 01:10:45.609
testing . So testing the entire

01:10:45.609 --> 01:10:47.776
mitochondrial genome instead of just a

01:10:47.776 --> 01:10:49.665
portion of it . Uh , and that was

01:10:49.665 --> 01:10:51.990
brought online in 2016 . So we've got

01:10:51.990 --> 01:10:54.509
10 years of , of NGS miter genome

01:10:54.509 --> 01:10:57.160
testing . Um , we liken that to a

01:10:57.160 --> 01:10:59.382
fishing expedition . So essentially you

01:10:59.382 --> 01:11:02.160
have , you have the right bait or in

01:11:02.160 --> 01:11:05.520
our case , baits that go into your ,

01:11:05.629 --> 01:11:08.240
your sample pool and pull out just the

01:11:08.240 --> 01:11:10.439
DNA that you were looking for and by

01:11:10.439 --> 01:11:13.660
using custom baits , we're able to . To

01:11:13.660 --> 01:11:15.882
remove the DNA from a sample that might

01:11:15.882 --> 01:11:19.240
be full of bacteria of , you know ,

01:11:19.500 --> 01:11:22.580
environmental , um , factors that have

01:11:22.580 --> 01:11:24.802
influenced that , that bone that it was

01:11:24.802 --> 01:11:26.747
taken from and be able to pull the

01:11:26.747 --> 01:11:29.140
human DNA out very effectively to work

01:11:29.140 --> 01:11:30.640
with that moving forward .

01:11:33.640 --> 01:11:36.000
So in fiscal year 25 , we averaged

01:11:36.000 --> 01:11:39.439
about 134 mitochondrial DM

01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:42.240
samples per month through NGS . In FY

01:11:42.240 --> 01:11:45.640
26 , currently , our average is 181 per

01:11:45.640 --> 01:11:47.879
month . And so you can see we have

01:11:47.879 --> 01:11:50.240
continued to expand our ability to do

01:11:50.240 --> 01:11:52.359
this testing and our throughput in

01:11:52.359 --> 01:11:54.415
order to , to support the additional

01:11:54.415 --> 01:11:57.359
identifications being made . Um , since

01:11:57.359 --> 01:12:00.680
2016 , over 9000 samples have been

01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:03.709
tested with this testing method . Um ,

01:12:03.870 --> 01:12:06.549
this is both new and previously tested

01:12:06.549 --> 01:12:09.899
samples . There are times when Previous

01:12:09.899 --> 01:12:11.955
testing was not enough . We have the

01:12:11.955 --> 01:12:14.010
ability to go back and , and do this

01:12:14.010 --> 01:12:16.177
whole genome sequencing that sometimes

01:12:16.299 --> 01:12:18.466
provides enough additional information

01:12:18.466 --> 01:12:21.339
to make an identification . Um , all

01:12:21.339 --> 01:12:23.561
maternal FRS , so the reference samples

01:12:23.561 --> 01:12:25.779
that you've donated , all have been

01:12:25.779 --> 01:12:28.270
processed for whole genomes since 2021 .

01:12:28.609 --> 01:12:30.859
And just like the other samples , we

01:12:30.859 --> 01:12:33.419
have the ability to go back and retest

01:12:33.419 --> 01:12:36.180
FRS for additional testing methods as

01:12:36.180 --> 01:12:38.291
needed . So even if you gave a sample

01:12:38.291 --> 01:12:40.160
20 years ago , I can go back and

01:12:40.160 --> 01:12:42.799
sequence it in whole genome as needed .

01:12:45.729 --> 01:12:47.896
So this just kind of puts into picture

01:12:47.896 --> 01:12:50.007
some of , some of the process that we

01:12:50.007 --> 01:12:51.673
go through in the timeline of

01:12:51.673 --> 01:12:53.890
developing new testing methods , um ,

01:12:53.899 --> 01:12:56.399
validating next-generation sequencing

01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:59.379
for mitogenome happened in 2016 .

01:13:00.439 --> 01:13:02.606
And our next step we knew was going to

01:13:02.606 --> 01:13:04.890
have to be a way of , of doing better

01:13:04.890 --> 01:13:06.946
work with autosomal testing . And so

01:13:06.946 --> 01:13:09.689
for us , that was the SNP testing . SNP

01:13:09.689 --> 01:13:11.470
stands for single nucleotide

01:13:11.470 --> 01:13:15.379
polymorphism . Um , And that is the

01:13:15.379 --> 01:13:17.601
method of testing that you probably are

01:13:17.601 --> 01:13:19.768
most familiar with from commercial DNA

01:13:19.768 --> 01:13:22.046
testing kits . So your , your ancestry ,

01:13:22.046 --> 01:13:24.379
your 23andMe , those are snip test kits .

01:13:24.700 --> 01:13:27.200
Um , commercial test kits don't work

01:13:27.200 --> 01:13:30.259
for our samples . We , we evaluated

01:13:30.259 --> 01:13:31.981
that . We did our research and

01:13:31.981 --> 01:13:34.315
development , found that pretty quickly .

01:13:34.315 --> 01:13:36.315
And so eventually , we were able to

01:13:36.315 --> 01:13:39.890
develop a custom 95,000 SNI panel that

01:13:39.890 --> 01:13:42.220
did work for our samples and provided

01:13:42.220 --> 01:13:44.819
the amount of data necessary to be able

01:13:44.819 --> 01:13:47.060
to make identifications . Um , and that

01:13:47.060 --> 01:13:49.004
was , as I mentioned , implemented

01:13:49.004 --> 01:13:50.671
about a year ago and has been

01:13:50.671 --> 01:13:54.660
tremendously successful . SNP stands

01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:57.899
for single nucleotide polymorphism . As

01:13:57.899 --> 01:14:00.259
I mentioned , that's just a single base

01:14:00.259 --> 01:14:02.319
pair within you and millions of base

01:14:02.339 --> 01:14:04.700
bases of DNA . And so that's why we

01:14:04.700 --> 01:14:08.450
look at 95,000 different SNPs

01:14:08.819 --> 01:14:11.560
to , to get a picture of your entire

01:14:11.779 --> 01:14:14.100
genome in a way that is useful for us

01:14:14.100 --> 01:14:16.290
for identification . Um , this is

01:14:16.290 --> 01:14:18.609
actually spread over all of your

01:14:18.609 --> 01:14:21.279
chromosomes rather than focusing just

01:14:21.339 --> 01:14:23.609
on a Y chromosome or just on a

01:14:23.609 --> 01:14:26.490
mitochondrial genome . Uh , so it's a

01:14:26.490 --> 01:14:30.129
way for us to look at a wider array of

01:14:30.129 --> 01:14:33.450
data , um , across an entire , entire

01:14:33.450 --> 01:14:36.479
genome . And it also allows us to

01:14:36.479 --> 01:14:38.839
expand our pool of eligible DNA

01:14:38.839 --> 01:14:41.399
references . Uh , this allowed us to

01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:44.200
start collecting based on degree of

01:14:44.200 --> 01:14:47.240
relatedness rather than just specific

01:14:47.240 --> 01:14:49.279
lineages . And so at this point ,

01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:51.680
everybody in yellow on that chart ,

01:14:51.759 --> 01:14:53.580
everybody out . 4th degree of

01:14:53.580 --> 01:14:56.600
relatedness is now an eligible DNA

01:14:56.600 --> 01:14:58.899
donor . Uh , so even if , if you

01:14:58.899 --> 01:15:01.259
attended a meeting 5 or 10 years ago

01:15:01.259 --> 01:15:03.426
and you were told you weren't eligible

01:15:03.426 --> 01:15:05.819
for DNA collection at that time , that

01:15:05.819 --> 01:15:07.930
may have changed , and that's because

01:15:07.930 --> 01:15:10.152
we've brought this new testing online .

01:15:12.279 --> 01:15:15.459
So nuclear snips , it's , it's another

01:15:15.790 --> 01:15:18.160
part of the process . Like I said , we

01:15:18.160 --> 01:15:20.327
sometimes don't get enough information

01:15:20.327 --> 01:15:22.709
from mitochondrial DNA or even the

01:15:22.709 --> 01:15:25.520
whole genome . Um , we're able to take

01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:28.680
a group of individuals , test , and

01:15:28.680 --> 01:15:31.479
narrow it down to get to a point where

01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:33.799
we can do nuclear snips and , and get

01:15:33.799 --> 01:15:35.819
to that individual identification .

01:15:38.290 --> 01:15:40.123
As I mentioned , we , we started

01:15:40.123 --> 01:15:42.290
casework about a year ago , um , and

01:15:42.290 --> 01:15:45.109
our first identification was in March

01:15:45.109 --> 01:15:48.549
2025 using SNPPS . That was Ensign

01:15:48.890 --> 01:15:51.689
Eugene Mandeberg . Um , his case was

01:15:51.689 --> 01:15:53.856
very unique in that we had a very good

01:15:53.856 --> 01:15:56.169
sense of , of who he probably was and

01:15:56.169 --> 01:15:58.685
we just did not have the . The right

01:15:58.685 --> 01:16:00.944
FRS to do the right amount of testing

01:16:01.524 --> 01:16:03.635
before SNPS came online to prove it .

01:16:03.725 --> 01:16:05.947
And so he , he was the first one that ,

01:16:05.955 --> 01:16:08.265
that we wanted to identify using SNPSs .

01:16:08.604 --> 01:16:12.165
Um , since then we've reported over 380

01:16:12.165 --> 01:16:14.604
profiles . Uh , we have a very high

01:16:14.604 --> 01:16:16.882
success rate with this type of testing ,

01:16:16.882 --> 01:16:19.544
which is excellent . Um , we've had

01:16:20.165 --> 01:16:22.845
over 123 . These , these numbers are

01:16:22.845 --> 01:16:25.067
about a month old , so it's , it's even

01:16:25.067 --> 01:16:28.020
higher than that now . Uh , this really

01:16:28.020 --> 01:16:30.580
is , is making a , a huge difference in

01:16:30.580 --> 01:16:34.359
the identification process . We

01:16:34.359 --> 01:16:36.649
actually just published a paper on this

01:16:36.649 --> 01:16:39.810
validation because AFDI is a leader in

01:16:39.810 --> 01:16:42.890
the field of , of DNA for human remains

01:16:42.890 --> 01:16:45.089
identification . So we developed this

01:16:45.089 --> 01:16:47.209
method , we use it and validate it

01:16:47.209 --> 01:16:49.529
internally , and we've now published to

01:16:49.529 --> 01:16:52.330
share with the communi community . Um ,

01:16:52.370 --> 01:16:54.203
the article was published at the

01:16:54.203 --> 01:16:56.259
beginning of March . It was actually

01:16:56.259 --> 01:16:58.426
recently selected as the cover article

01:16:58.426 --> 01:17:00.537
for that edition that's Over a number

01:17:00.537 --> 01:17:02.759
of other , other articles and it's been

01:17:02.759 --> 01:17:04.870
very well received in the community .

01:17:04.870 --> 01:17:06.981
So this is just our way of being able

01:17:06.981 --> 01:17:09.092
to share with others the work that we

01:17:09.092 --> 01:17:11.259
are doing and to hopefully help others

01:17:11.259 --> 01:17:15.149
do the same . Here's a chart . It's

01:17:15.149 --> 01:17:17.427
got a lot , a lot of information on it .

01:17:17.427 --> 01:17:19.669
It really just helps to break down all

01:17:19.669 --> 01:17:21.891
of our different testing types and sort

01:17:21.891 --> 01:17:23.899
of the pros and cons of each . Um ,

01:17:23.990 --> 01:17:27.580
there is no one right test or , or one

01:17:27.580 --> 01:17:30.149
right method . You have to sometimes

01:17:30.149 --> 01:17:32.589
look at what you have , what the

01:17:32.589 --> 01:17:34.811
information shows , and , and determine

01:17:34.811 --> 01:17:36.922
the different types of tests that you

01:17:36.922 --> 01:17:39.145
do from there , um , that can take into

01:17:39.145 --> 01:17:41.367
account what references you have , what

01:17:41.367 --> 01:17:44.379
data you can get from the sample . Um ,

01:17:44.770 --> 01:17:46.992
starting with mitochondrial DNA testing

01:17:46.992 --> 01:17:49.214
and then moving through the process all

01:17:49.214 --> 01:17:53.069
the way to SNPS . So somebody

01:17:53.069 --> 01:17:55.125
actually asked me a question earlier

01:17:55.125 --> 01:17:57.347
today , uh , that was in line with what

01:17:57.347 --> 01:17:59.750
our next steps might be . And one of

01:17:59.750 --> 01:18:02.310
those things is forensic investigative

01:18:02.310 --> 01:18:05.750
genetic genealogy or BIG or IGG , uh ,

01:18:05.790 --> 01:18:08.049
essentially being able to use

01:18:09.149 --> 01:18:11.316
information that we produce and search

01:18:11.339 --> 01:18:13.709
commercially available databases that

01:18:13.709 --> 01:18:17.220
allow for it . In order to potentially

01:18:17.220 --> 01:18:19.740
identify remains that don't have

01:18:19.740 --> 01:18:22.379
references on file . Um , this is , if

01:18:22.379 --> 01:18:24.490
you , if you watch the news , if , if

01:18:24.490 --> 01:18:26.601
you see all the announcements of , of

01:18:26.601 --> 01:18:28.410
human identification , um ,

01:18:28.490 --> 01:18:30.601
identification of missing persons who

01:18:30.601 --> 01:18:32.657
have been found recently , this is a

01:18:32.657 --> 01:18:35.160
big area of study in the forensic DNA

01:18:35.160 --> 01:18:37.540
community , and we are currently

01:18:37.540 --> 01:18:40.060
working , uh , internally to develop

01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:42.116
methods that hopefully will work for

01:18:42.116 --> 01:18:44.140
our samples and for our case , case

01:18:44.140 --> 01:18:48.080
types . Um It's the scenario where you

01:18:48.080 --> 01:18:50.720
don't have a reference and you need to

01:18:50.720 --> 01:18:52.942
look outside . Obviously , I don't want

01:18:52.942 --> 01:18:55.560
to go to a big commercially available

01:18:55.560 --> 01:18:57.959
database if I have a reference on file

01:18:57.959 --> 01:19:00.200
for a direct match . So it's not where

01:19:00.200 --> 01:19:02.311
we would start , but it's certainly a

01:19:02.311 --> 01:19:04.799
good next step of where to go when our

01:19:04.799 --> 01:19:06.577
other methods have not worked .

01:19:09.330 --> 01:19:11.609
So I know we , we sometimes have

01:19:11.609 --> 01:19:13.831
questions that come up , misconceptions

01:19:13.831 --> 01:19:16.109
about maybe what we do or how we do it .

01:19:16.279 --> 01:19:18.446
Um , one of the more common ones these

01:19:18.446 --> 01:19:20.446
days is , well , I did a commercial

01:19:20.446 --> 01:19:22.779
test kit , you know , I did an ancestry .

01:19:22.779 --> 01:19:25.001
I , I put it into this database . Isn't

01:19:25.001 --> 01:19:27.057
that enough ? And the answer is no .

01:19:27.057 --> 01:19:29.410
The , the AFDL has their own database

01:19:29.410 --> 01:19:32.209
that's used for DNA references . We do

01:19:32.209 --> 01:19:34.399
direct comparisons and matching , um ,

01:19:34.450 --> 01:19:36.810
that's covered by our privacy statement ,

01:19:36.970 --> 01:19:40.250
so we never share that data . Um , but

01:19:40.250 --> 01:19:42.028
really , we need your reference

01:19:42.028 --> 01:19:44.370
directly in order to be most effective

01:19:44.370 --> 01:19:47.850
in the identification process . Um , we

01:19:47.850 --> 01:19:50.017
also sometimes get questions about why

01:19:50.017 --> 01:19:52.209
do you use mitochondrial DNA ? Isn't

01:19:52.209 --> 01:19:54.930
that a limited tool ? And hopefully ,

01:19:55.169 --> 01:19:57.225
after I've gone through everything ,

01:19:57.225 --> 01:19:59.113
you see that it's really just one

01:19:59.113 --> 01:20:01.336
important step of the process . We have

01:20:01.336 --> 01:20:03.502
a , a wide array of testing types that

01:20:03.502 --> 01:20:05.890
we use in order to get all the way to

01:20:05.890 --> 01:20:08.689
an identification . Um

01:20:09.609 --> 01:20:11.776
Nothing is out of date . Everything is

01:20:11.776 --> 01:20:14.379
still relevant if it's still useful in

01:20:14.379 --> 01:20:17.040
the process . And so , you know , we're ,

01:20:17.100 --> 01:20:19.049
we're the experts when it comes to

01:20:19.049 --> 01:20:21.339
making those decisions about what

01:20:21.339 --> 01:20:23.561
testing we need to do , what testing is

01:20:23.561 --> 01:20:25.783
going to work best for the sample , and

01:20:25.783 --> 01:20:28.006
that's why we keep all of our validated

01:20:28.006 --> 01:20:29.779
methods online , old and new .

01:20:32.620 --> 01:20:34.859
People also ask , why does my DNA

01:20:34.859 --> 01:20:37.660
testing take so long ? Um , obviously ,

01:20:37.729 --> 01:20:39.979
it really depends on sample quality and

01:20:39.979 --> 01:20:43.580
quantity , um , the ability

01:20:43.580 --> 01:20:46.060
to , to test our very challenging

01:20:46.060 --> 01:20:48.580
samples and get that useful information

01:20:48.580 --> 01:20:51.220
out of them . Uh , we have to optimize

01:20:51.220 --> 01:20:54.830
methods to our unique sample set . Uh ,

01:20:54.939 --> 01:20:56.883
and we often have to develop those

01:20:56.883 --> 01:20:59.330
methods ourselves . So that's why our ,

01:20:59.430 --> 01:21:02.229
our forensic SNP validation was , was

01:21:02.229 --> 01:21:04.396
something that was fully validated and

01:21:04.396 --> 01:21:06.430
developed internally and then we

01:21:06.430 --> 01:21:08.950
published with the community . Um , it ,

01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:11.111
it wasn't something that we were able

01:21:11.111 --> 01:21:13.430
to just purchase a kit and go . Um .

01:21:14.839 --> 01:21:17.061
The biggest thing , family references .

01:21:17.120 --> 01:21:19.589
We need references on file . We can't

01:21:19.589 --> 01:21:21.700
make identifications without having a

01:21:21.700 --> 01:21:23.645
reference to compare it to when it

01:21:23.645 --> 01:21:26.750
comes to DNA . So , if , if you've

01:21:26.750 --> 01:21:28.917
donated in the past , if you are ready

01:21:28.917 --> 01:21:31.680
to donate today , we're here today . My

01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:33.736
collection team is here until , till

01:21:33.736 --> 01:21:36.000
the end of the meeting . Um , if you

01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:38.111
have any questions , please feel free

01:21:38.111 --> 01:21:40.333
to come and , and speak to me or one of

01:21:40.333 --> 01:21:44.270
my , my scientists . As I said , uh ,

01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:46.799
DNA testing is , is complicated and

01:21:46.799 --> 01:21:50.029
case dependent . We use cutting edge

01:21:50.029 --> 01:21:52.251
technology and a wide range of range of

01:21:52.251 --> 01:21:54.839
testing methods . Uh , we continually

01:21:54.839 --> 01:21:57.600
monitor success rates , reassess and

01:21:57.600 --> 01:21:59.839
optimize . So there's never a time when

01:21:59.839 --> 01:22:02.006
we say , well , we're done with that .

01:22:02.006 --> 01:22:03.839
Don't , don't go back to it . If

01:22:03.839 --> 01:22:05.895
there's a new test , we will go back

01:22:05.895 --> 01:22:08.006
and do that new test when we can . We

01:22:08.006 --> 01:22:09.950
continue to be the world leader in

01:22:09.950 --> 01:22:12.660
forensic human remains DNA testing . As

01:22:12.660 --> 01:22:15.399
I mentioned , we , we publish our work

01:22:15.660 --> 01:22:17.438
whenever that's relevant to the

01:22:17.438 --> 01:22:20.020
community . We develop new test methods .

01:22:21.330 --> 01:22:24.419
And being able to expand eligibility

01:22:24.419 --> 01:22:27.109
means that I can now collect more of

01:22:27.109 --> 01:22:29.500
you to use as part of the

01:22:29.500 --> 01:22:30.889
identification process .

01:22:33.410 --> 01:22:35.466
That I have a lot of acknowledgments

01:22:35.466 --> 01:22:37.632
because there are a lot of people that

01:22:37.632 --> 01:22:39.966
contribute to and support our work , um ,

01:22:40.169 --> 01:22:42.810
most notably my , my senior scientific

01:22:42.810 --> 01:22:44.754
staff , my division chief , Doctor

01:22:44.754 --> 01:22:48.060
Timothy McMahon . Um , also , outside

01:22:48.379 --> 01:22:51.180
laboratories , Pairbon Nano Labs , um ,

01:22:51.359 --> 01:22:53.720
our research section and our casework

01:22:53.720 --> 01:22:55.831
sections to do so much of this work ,

01:22:56.040 --> 01:22:58.500
as well as the DPA laboratory staff who

01:22:58.500 --> 01:23:01.049
we work so closely with . Uh , and

01:23:01.049 --> 01:23:02.993
mostly , most of all , I'd like to

01:23:02.993 --> 01:23:05.160
thank all of you . Thank you for being

01:23:05.160 --> 01:23:07.382
here today . Thank you for contributing

01:23:07.382 --> 01:23:09.549
your DNA when you can and having those

01:23:09.549 --> 01:23:11.605
conversations with us to , to figure

01:23:11.605 --> 01:23:13.827
out the best way forward for your loved

01:23:13.827 --> 01:23:12.870
ones .

01:23:24.700 --> 01:23:25.390
Q and A X

01:23:35.069 --> 01:23:37.350
Thank you , Julie . Um , I would like

01:23:37.350 --> 01:23:40.189
to ask all of our presenters if they

01:23:40.189 --> 01:23:43.419
would come forward , please , and that

01:23:43.430 --> 01:23:46.939
includes , um , A couple of our staff

01:23:46.939 --> 01:23:49.740
directors that were not presenters and

01:23:49.740 --> 01:23:50.879
Sergeant Major .

01:23:56.879 --> 01:23:57.879
OK .

01:24:02.609 --> 01:24:05.040
So the time has come for our Q&A

01:24:05.040 --> 01:24:08.399
session . Similar to the remembrance

01:24:08.399 --> 01:24:10.770
ceremony , if you would like to ask a

01:24:10.770 --> 01:24:12.937
question , please raise your hand . We

01:24:12.937 --> 01:24:15.169
have , um , individuals in the audience

01:24:15.169 --> 01:24:18.399
with microphones . Uh , they will come

01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:20.580
to you with a microphone , and , uh ,

01:24:20.589 --> 01:24:23.000
you can then ask your question . If you

01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:24.839
would please keep your questions

01:24:24.839 --> 01:24:28.080
generic and , um , about the

01:24:28.080 --> 01:24:31.240
presentation that you had , if you have

01:24:31.240 --> 01:24:33.495
specific Questions about your case ,

01:24:33.935 --> 01:24:36.294
please limit those to your one on one

01:24:36.294 --> 01:24:39.615
with your analyst or uh submit your

01:24:39.615 --> 01:24:41.504
question to your service casualty

01:24:41.504 --> 01:24:44.294
office , but we would ask that you not

01:24:44.294 --> 01:24:46.774
ask case-specific questions in this

01:24:46.774 --> 01:24:47.415
forum .

01:24:51.259 --> 01:24:54.500
OK . Captain Bodner , you wanna come on

01:24:54.500 --> 01:24:55.720
up also , please ?

01:25:09.759 --> 01:25:12.919
OK , all right , I think we have our

01:25:12.919 --> 01:25:15.141
team assembled here . You guys can come

01:25:15.141 --> 01:25:17.979
up on stage . OK .

01:25:18.819 --> 01:25:22.620
Valentine's day . Valley Campo .

01:25:24.069 --> 01:25:25.310
Talk on stage .

01:25:28.770 --> 01:25:32.229
OK , first question over on the

01:25:32.729 --> 01:25:35.950
side . Uh , thank you . I just wanna

01:25:35.950 --> 01:25:38.390
say this is outstanding work and very

01:25:38.390 --> 01:25:41.669
impressive , and I just , uh , it means

01:25:41.669 --> 01:25:44.790
a great deal . One of my questions is I ,

01:25:44.870 --> 01:25:46.814
I know it was touched on earlier a

01:25:46.814 --> 01:25:49.148
little bit about your financial support ,

01:25:49.148 --> 01:25:51.149
and I'm assuming this is provided

01:25:51.149 --> 01:25:53.430
through our , our government agencies ,

01:25:53.470 --> 01:25:56.310
and I'm really hoping that , um ,

01:25:56.839 --> 01:25:59.410
continued support will be provided ,

01:25:59.419 --> 01:26:02.979
but are you . Worried about any cuts to

01:26:02.979 --> 01:26:04.757
your financial support for this

01:26:04.757 --> 01:26:07.299
outstanding program and I wanna again

01:26:07.299 --> 01:26:09.410
just thank you for your work this and

01:26:09.410 --> 01:26:11.660
and how is this communicated to other

01:26:11.660 --> 01:26:14.439
possible not for profit support because

01:26:14.660 --> 01:26:17.939
this is , uh , I was not aware of all

01:26:17.939 --> 01:26:20.580
of this work behind the scenes and is

01:26:20.580 --> 01:26:22.636
there a way that we can promote this

01:26:22.636 --> 01:26:26.149
further . Thank you for that question .

01:26:26.560 --> 01:26:28.890
Uh , so one of the things that it takes

01:26:28.890 --> 01:26:31.529
for an organization like ours to

01:26:31.529 --> 01:26:33.640
conduct the sacred mission is we have

01:26:33.640 --> 01:26:35.418
to be organized , trained , and

01:26:35.418 --> 01:26:37.529
equipped . And one of the things that

01:26:37.529 --> 01:26:40.790
we ask of our families is to go to

01:26:40.790 --> 01:26:43.430
Congress . Let them know about your

01:26:43.430 --> 01:26:45.830
missing loved ones . Let them know how

01:26:45.830 --> 01:26:48.660
important it is to you all that we can

01:26:48.669 --> 01:26:52.279
be equipped , be organized and funded

01:26:52.629 --> 01:26:54.796
to make sure that we have the overhead

01:26:54.796 --> 01:26:56.740
that we need to conduct the sacred

01:26:56.740 --> 01:26:58.907
mission . And so as private citizens ,

01:26:58.907 --> 01:27:01.018
please go to your representatives and

01:27:01.018 --> 01:27:02.962
explain to them this mission , the

01:27:02.962 --> 01:27:02.729
education that you've received from

01:27:02.729 --> 01:27:04.896
events like this , and share with them

01:27:04.896 --> 01:27:06.896
the stories that you've shared with

01:27:06.896 --> 01:27:09.062
each other and us today . And also the

01:27:09.062 --> 01:27:11.173
veterans service organizations that I

01:27:11.173 --> 01:27:13.173
mentioned earlier , they're another

01:27:13.173 --> 01:27:15.229
great entity or family member groups

01:27:15.229 --> 01:27:17.330
that they can also bring those , you

01:27:17.330 --> 01:27:19.770
know , those points that you have up

01:27:19.770 --> 01:27:22.520
with Congress . And that will certainly

01:27:23.180 --> 01:27:25.013
help you bend their ear and help

01:27:25.013 --> 01:27:27.200
educate them on how they can better uh

01:27:27.200 --> 01:27:29.200
organize , train and equip agencies

01:27:29.200 --> 01:27:31.830
like ours . Thank you . Thank you .

01:27:33.640 --> 01:27:35.862
Yes , ma'am . If you'll hold on , we'll

01:27:35.862 --> 01:27:37.584
get a microphone over to you .

01:27:45.549 --> 01:27:48.910
Thank you . This has been excellent and

01:27:48.910 --> 01:27:52.109
I've learned a lot . Um , my question

01:27:52.109 --> 01:27:55.470
is about the DNA testing . I just

01:27:55.470 --> 01:27:58.029
learned today that now I am one of the

01:27:58.029 --> 01:28:01.529
eligible participants . Um ,

01:28:02.750 --> 01:28:05.990
well , twofold question . One is how do

01:28:05.990 --> 01:28:08.270
we keep up out in the field to know

01:28:08.270 --> 01:28:10.549
that these changes are made , that

01:28:10.549 --> 01:28:13.629
there are other people eligible . And

01:28:13.629 --> 01:28:16.990
also , what do you want us to do with

01:28:16.990 --> 01:28:19.310
this ? Um , you know , we have all

01:28:19.310 --> 01:28:21.477
these eligible family members . Do you

01:28:21.477 --> 01:28:23.990
want us to recruit more , that type of

01:28:23.990 --> 01:28:27.810
thing . Good question . Thank

01:28:27.810 --> 01:28:31.649
you . Can you hear me ? Yes . So it

01:28:31.649 --> 01:28:35.129
really is case by case . Um , a lot of

01:28:35.129 --> 01:28:37.185
the references collected in the past

01:28:37.185 --> 01:28:39.770
are eligible for the additional DNA

01:28:39.770 --> 01:28:41.881
testing types we're doing right now .

01:28:42.149 --> 01:28:44.879
Every reference collected since 1992 is

01:28:44.879 --> 01:28:47.046
stored in my laboratory and accessible

01:28:47.046 --> 01:28:49.268
for additional testing . So typically ,

01:28:49.479 --> 01:28:51.620
if a case comes up for sniff testing

01:28:51.620 --> 01:28:53.842
and it was tested 10 or 20 years ago in

01:28:53.842 --> 01:28:56.359
mitochondrial DNA , I just pull the

01:28:56.359 --> 01:28:58.137
original reference and I do the

01:28:58.137 --> 01:29:01.069
additional sniff test . If a case comes

01:29:01.069 --> 01:29:03.089
up for SNP testing and I don't have

01:29:03.089 --> 01:29:05.290
appropriate references or if they fail

01:29:05.290 --> 01:29:08.169
to work because they are older , I

01:29:08.169 --> 01:29:10.058
reach out to the service casualty

01:29:10.058 --> 01:29:11.947
officer and request an additional

01:29:11.947 --> 01:29:14.370
collection , a recollection , um , and

01:29:14.370 --> 01:29:16.426
they take a look at the case at that

01:29:16.426 --> 01:29:18.537
point and they , they say , well , we

01:29:18.537 --> 01:29:20.648
had maybe a maternal cousin on file ,

01:29:20.648 --> 01:29:22.648
but I can see that they're actually

01:29:22.648 --> 01:29:24.814
closer relatives who weren't collected

01:29:24.814 --> 01:29:26.926
because they weren't maternal and now

01:29:26.926 --> 01:29:28.926
they are SNP eligible and so they .

01:29:28.926 --> 01:29:31.148
They take a look at that case . They do

01:29:31.148 --> 01:29:33.203
the outreach that we receive the new

01:29:33.203 --> 01:29:35.370
references . That is happening all the

01:29:35.370 --> 01:29:37.426
time . Um , moving forward , the SNF

01:29:37.426 --> 01:29:39.790
panel has expanded who can be collected ,

01:29:39.799 --> 01:29:41.632
and so that's why we updated our

01:29:41.632 --> 01:29:43.632
collection form about a year ago to

01:29:43.632 --> 01:29:46.270
highlight in yellow all of the eligible

01:29:46.270 --> 01:29:48.640
references that can be collected . And

01:29:48.640 --> 01:29:52.160
so we , we do a lot of that work on ,

01:29:52.279 --> 01:29:54.549
you know , as needed on our own and ,

01:29:54.759 --> 01:29:56.870
and just know that when there is more

01:29:56.870 --> 01:29:58.981
testing to be done , we do reach back

01:29:58.981 --> 01:30:01.203
out and , and try to collect additional

01:30:01.203 --> 01:30:03.830
references as needed . Thank you .

01:30:16.200 --> 01:30:18.959
Thank you for all of you what you have

01:30:18.959 --> 01:30:21.292
all the analogy you have given us today .

01:30:21.292 --> 01:30:23.459
Um , I do have a question though , and

01:30:23.459 --> 01:30:25.759
forgive me if it was mentioned . The 55

01:30:25.759 --> 01:30:27.870
boxes that were found , um , where do

01:30:27.870 --> 01:30:31.009
we stand with those ? Um ,

01:30:31.290 --> 01:30:34.839
particularly the North Korean . I

01:30:34.839 --> 01:30:37.209
wouldn't take that for Yeah .

01:30:40.629 --> 01:30:42.851
Thank you very much for that question .

01:30:42.851 --> 01:30:45.229
Uh , we are still actively working on

01:30:45.229 --> 01:30:48.790
those 55 boxes of remains . Um , we are

01:30:48.790 --> 01:30:50.509
up to , I don't know how many

01:30:50.669 --> 01:30:53.009
identifications we're up to out of K55

01:30:53.060 --> 01:30:54.790
so far . Go ahead .

01:30:56.850 --> 01:30:59.129
We've made over 100 identifications

01:30:59.129 --> 01:31:01.649
from the K55 , but what's I think , I

01:31:01.649 --> 01:31:03.649
think it's pretty unique is that we

01:31:03.649 --> 01:31:06.810
have over 250 unique DNA sequences . So

01:31:06.810 --> 01:31:09.209
we know there's at least 250

01:31:09.890 --> 01:31:12.049
individuals at least that are part of

01:31:12.049 --> 01:31:15.089
those boxes , but the , the , uh , the

01:31:15.089 --> 01:31:17.089
exact IDs are still coming in , but

01:31:17.089 --> 01:31:20.509
we're still working on it . Another

01:31:20.509 --> 01:31:22.620
interesting aspect of that is some of

01:31:22.620 --> 01:31:25.870
those 250 DNA sequences are not

01:31:25.870 --> 01:31:28.109
Americans and they turn out to be

01:31:28.109 --> 01:31:30.350
Korean remains . And so we work with a

01:31:30.350 --> 01:31:32.350
sister agency called MARI to return

01:31:32.350 --> 01:31:34.128
those Korean remains to Korea .

01:31:37.569 --> 01:31:41.479
Over here ? Uh , two

01:31:41.479 --> 01:31:44.500
questions . One , can you collect . Uh ,

01:31:44.509 --> 01:31:48.100
DNA from cremated remains and

01:31:48.100 --> 01:31:51.500
2 . Do you outsource the

01:31:51.500 --> 01:31:53.540
sequencing , the labs like at the

01:31:53.540 --> 01:31:56.399
University of Michigan or other Mix it

01:31:56.399 --> 01:31:58.288
like that or do you have your own

01:31:58.288 --> 01:32:01.649
equipment ? So question one , DNA from

01:32:01.649 --> 01:32:03.871
cremated remains , generally the answer

01:32:03.871 --> 01:32:06.609
is no . They , they are not eligible

01:32:06.609 --> 01:32:09.689
for DNA testing the DNA has been too

01:32:09.689 --> 01:32:12.620
damaged . Uh , question two , sorry .

01:32:13.140 --> 01:32:15.509
Question two , outsourcing , we do not

01:32:15.509 --> 01:32:17.910
outsource . Uh , our accreditation is

01:32:17.910 --> 01:32:20.830
specific to our laboratory , and so an

01:32:20.830 --> 01:32:23.589
outsourcing agreement for DNA testing

01:32:23.589 --> 01:32:26.350
would introduce an entire new layer .

01:32:26.680 --> 01:32:28.458
Um , we keep all of our testing

01:32:28.458 --> 01:32:31.149
internal and we expand our capability

01:32:31.149 --> 01:32:33.509
in the laboratory and staff as needed .

01:32:38.939 --> 01:32:41.479
Marty . Can , can you bring the uh

01:32:41.479 --> 01:32:42.701
microphone to Marty ?

01:32:47.109 --> 01:32:47.680
So , you

01:32:52.109 --> 01:32:55.259
Thank you . My question has to do with

01:32:55.259 --> 01:32:59.040
funding . I recently learned that in

01:32:59.040 --> 01:33:02.640
the president's fiscal 2027 budget ,

01:33:03.160 --> 01:33:06.319
the Defense Department budget increased

01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:09.879
substantially . However , funding for

01:33:09.879 --> 01:33:13.279
DPAA went down quite a bit .

01:33:14.390 --> 01:33:16.700
I think if the , if memory serves , the

01:33:16.700 --> 01:33:19.970
fiscal 27 proposed amount is

01:33:19.970 --> 01:33:22.549
160 million .

01:33:23.899 --> 01:33:26.010
Deeply concerned about that on behalf

01:33:26.010 --> 01:33:28.370
of all families because I know that

01:33:28.379 --> 01:33:30.819
that will greatly impact what you are

01:33:30.819 --> 01:33:34.430
able to do both in the field and in the

01:33:34.430 --> 01:33:37.220
labs but of course you know field work

01:33:37.220 --> 01:33:40.500
is is very very important so um could

01:33:40.500 --> 01:33:43.939
you address that and um what can we do

01:33:43.939 --> 01:33:47.109
to help ? Thank you for that question ,

01:33:47.250 --> 01:33:47.750
Marty .

01:33:51.770 --> 01:33:53.826
So , I think your numbers are pretty

01:33:53.826 --> 01:33:55.770
accurate . Uh , that is what we're

01:33:55.770 --> 01:33:57.799
looking at for our fiscal year 2017

01:33:57.799 --> 01:33:59.743
budget , uh , from the president's

01:33:59.743 --> 01:34:02.169
budget . You know , we , uh , as an

01:34:02.169 --> 01:34:05.810
agency experienced some budgetary uh

01:34:05.810 --> 01:34:07.921
constraints in the last fiscal year .

01:34:07.921 --> 01:34:10.143
As well , but I think that was true for

01:34:10.143 --> 01:34:12.354
most of the , uh , most government

01:34:12.354 --> 01:34:15.645
agencies experience this and so what we

01:34:15.645 --> 01:34:18.125
experienced was about on par with what ,

01:34:18.154 --> 01:34:20.834
uh , sorts of cuts , uh , we , we saw

01:34:20.834 --> 01:34:23.056
throughout the whole , uh , through the

01:34:23.056 --> 01:34:25.167
whole of government . Um , and we did

01:34:25.167 --> 01:34:27.799
so that was an exercise in , uh , in

01:34:27.799 --> 01:34:30.200
reprioritizing and looking at where we

01:34:30.200 --> 01:34:32.879
should best allocate our resources for

01:34:32.879 --> 01:34:34.990
that fiscal year , the one that we're

01:34:34.990 --> 01:34:37.212
currently in right now , um , and , and

01:34:37.212 --> 01:34:39.560
what I can tell you is that we were

01:34:39.560 --> 01:34:41.671
very careful with how we balanced our

01:34:41.671 --> 01:34:43.671
resources to make sure that we were

01:34:43.671 --> 01:34:46.319
still able to focus on the agency's

01:34:46.319 --> 01:34:48.640
priorities . Our number one operating

01:34:48.640 --> 01:34:51.660
priority for , uh , for our operations

01:34:51.660 --> 01:34:54.560
is the Southeast Asia . And so that is

01:34:54.560 --> 01:34:56.282
where the vast majority of our

01:34:56.282 --> 01:34:58.393
resources go , but we are , we have a

01:34:58.393 --> 01:35:00.950
steady drumbeat toward all of our , all

01:35:00.950 --> 01:35:03.390
of our conflicts and even with the

01:35:03.390 --> 01:35:05.720
budgetary restraints , we were still

01:35:05.720 --> 01:35:09.560
able to address the same proportion

01:35:09.720 --> 01:35:12.350
of resources to each mission . Um ,

01:35:12.359 --> 01:35:14.526
we're very carefully looking at how we

01:35:14.526 --> 01:35:16.415
prioritize the missions given the

01:35:16.415 --> 01:35:18.959
budget that we have . And looking for

01:35:18.959 --> 01:35:21.040
uh fiscal year 27 , we're in the

01:35:21.040 --> 01:35:23.262
process right now of finalizing what we

01:35:23.262 --> 01:35:25.151
expect our operating plan and our

01:35:25.151 --> 01:35:27.919
fieldwork to be for 27 . We're

01:35:27.919 --> 01:35:30.479
approaching it the same way . So the

01:35:30.479 --> 01:35:32.839
same uh focus areas , the same

01:35:32.839 --> 01:35:34.672
resources , applying in the same

01:35:34.672 --> 01:35:36.720
percentages to make sure that we're

01:35:36.720 --> 01:35:39.560
still able to honor the strategy that

01:35:39.560 --> 01:35:42.629
the agency has laid out as it is . But

01:35:42.629 --> 01:35:44.629
I think we've actually , you know ,

01:35:44.629 --> 01:35:46.740
Colonel Rankin mentioned it already ,

01:35:46.740 --> 01:35:48.907
uh , what can you do ? I , I would say

01:35:48.907 --> 01:35:51.310
that you want to , uh , continue to

01:35:51.310 --> 01:35:54.509
engage as private citizens , um , to ,

01:35:54.629 --> 01:35:56.870
to make sure that you , uh , explain

01:35:56.870 --> 01:36:00.109
your own family's story and what it

01:36:00.109 --> 01:36:02.850
means to you . Thank you .

01:36:06.729 --> 01:36:08.840
Good afternoon , ma'am . Uh , my name

01:36:08.840 --> 01:36:10.896
is Michelle Mullins , and I'm an Air

01:36:10.896 --> 01:36:13.062
Force civilian out of Wright Patterson

01:36:13.062 --> 01:36:15.229
Air Force Base . Um , I fall under the

01:36:15.229 --> 01:36:18.209
combat readiness , uh , directorate and

01:36:18.209 --> 01:36:21.120
work in the human systems division ,

01:36:21.490 --> 01:36:23.770
and we go out and we do investigation

01:36:23.770 --> 01:36:25.740
for mishaps and we collect , uh ,

01:36:25.770 --> 01:36:28.290
artifacts and we bring some of those

01:36:28.290 --> 01:36:31.049
back and archive those in a building

01:36:31.049 --> 01:36:33.490
next to me . I'm curious if your agency

01:36:33.490 --> 01:36:36.250
works with Human Systems division .

01:36:37.399 --> 01:36:41.359
Thank you . So I'll answer part of that

01:36:41.359 --> 01:36:45.089
and then I'll turn it over to SA . We

01:36:45.089 --> 01:36:48.419
used to have an , a section that was

01:36:48.419 --> 01:36:50.363
within the Life Sciences Equipment

01:36:50.363 --> 01:36:53.140
Laboratory called the artifacts section

01:36:53.370 --> 01:36:55.520
that was devoted specifically to the

01:36:55.520 --> 01:36:58.459
Vietnam War . When DPAA was

01:36:58.520 --> 01:37:02.020
established , the Air Force gave that

01:37:02.020 --> 01:37:05.359
artifact section over to DPAA , so it's

01:37:05.359 --> 01:37:08.459
part of now our laboratory at Offutt

01:37:08.459 --> 01:37:11.049
Air Force Base . You want to speak to

01:37:11.049 --> 01:37:13.830
any more about the artifacts portion ,

01:37:14.069 --> 01:37:17.319
LSEL ? Um , all .

01:37:18.589 --> 01:37:20.700
Everything that you remember has been

01:37:20.700 --> 01:37:23.430
moved from , uh , Ohio to our facility

01:37:23.430 --> 01:37:25.486
in Omaha , so it's the same people ,

01:37:25.486 --> 01:37:27.950
same stuff . We renamed it when we

01:37:27.950 --> 01:37:30.270
became DPAA but retained everything .

01:37:30.709 --> 01:37:31.987
So we still have all .

01:37:36.979 --> 01:37:39.299
Um , thank you . There's so many of you

01:37:39.299 --> 01:37:42.089
that are active duty members , so how

01:37:42.089 --> 01:37:44.256
do you get to be on this team ? Do you

01:37:44.256 --> 01:37:46.256
have to apply ? You have to have so

01:37:46.256 --> 01:37:48.311
many years of service ? I mean , are

01:37:48.311 --> 01:37:50.620
you selected ? I , I'd just be

01:37:50.620 --> 01:37:54.089
interesting to know . So the active

01:37:54.089 --> 01:37:56.145
duty portion of this job is the best

01:37:56.145 --> 01:37:58.256
job , obviously . I might be a little

01:37:58.256 --> 01:38:00.490
biased , but there are specific uh

01:38:00.490 --> 01:38:02.657
military occupational specialties that

01:38:02.657 --> 01:38:04.930
are required for a mission , such as in

01:38:04.930 --> 01:38:07.097
the army , not to be really specific ,

01:38:07.097 --> 01:38:09.240
but a 92 mic , right ? A mortuary

01:38:09.240 --> 01:38:11.351
affairs . Specialist mortuary affairs

01:38:11.351 --> 01:38:13.435
specialist is my slot , and it's the

01:38:13.435 --> 01:38:15.657
slot of a lot of people in our recovery

01:38:15.657 --> 01:38:17.546
teams . We also have life support

01:38:17.546 --> 01:38:19.491
investigators . We have , um , EOD

01:38:19.491 --> 01:38:22.375
technicians . So the services have our

01:38:22.375 --> 01:38:24.814
needs specifically and then the

01:38:24.814 --> 01:38:28.350
services task . Individuals that meet

01:38:28.350 --> 01:38:30.509
those needs to meet the needs of our

01:38:30.509 --> 01:38:32.565
organization , does that answer your

01:38:32.565 --> 01:38:34.731
question ? Um , you can volunteer . We

01:38:34.731 --> 01:38:36.870
can request a by name if you have a

01:38:36.870 --> 01:38:40.069
very , if we have a very big need and

01:38:40.069 --> 01:38:41.958
you have a very specific military

01:38:41.958 --> 01:38:44.069
occupational specialty that we need ,

01:38:44.069 --> 01:38:45.625
but that's the only kind of

01:38:45.625 --> 01:38:47.736
volunteerism besides the one where we

01:38:47.736 --> 01:38:49.736
raised our hands at , uh , military

01:38:49.736 --> 01:38:51.736
entrance process . That answer it ?

01:38:58.529 --> 01:39:00.640
Hi , I'd like to thank Julie Demarass

01:39:00.640 --> 01:39:02.640
for talking with me earlier , and I

01:39:02.640 --> 01:39:05.189
just wanted to clarify a statement , um ,

01:39:05.250 --> 01:39:07.850
you made about , uh , first born

01:39:07.850 --> 01:39:11.009
children in their DNA . Did it matter

01:39:11.009 --> 01:39:13.770
whether or not the first born children

01:39:13.770 --> 01:39:16.609
was , uh , the children were female

01:39:16.609 --> 01:39:19.990
versus male in helping identify

01:39:20.339 --> 01:39:22.819
any given person who is MIA ?

01:39:24.220 --> 01:39:26.331
I think that's actually a combination

01:39:26.331 --> 01:39:28.442
of a couple of things we were talking

01:39:28.442 --> 01:39:30.553
about . So the first born child comes

01:39:30.553 --> 01:39:32.387
into account when , when they're

01:39:32.387 --> 01:39:34.609
looking at the primary versus secondary

01:39:34.609 --> 01:39:36.609
next of kin , and , and that's more

01:39:36.609 --> 01:39:38.720
legal and , and more for notification

01:39:38.720 --> 01:39:40.942
for DNA testing , everybody is the same

01:39:40.942 --> 01:39:43.109
if they have the same level . Level of

01:39:43.109 --> 01:39:45.164
relatedness , so there , there is no

01:39:45.164 --> 01:39:47.164
better or worse when it comes to to

01:39:47.164 --> 01:39:49.220
first born , second born . It , it's

01:39:49.220 --> 01:39:51.331
all about the specific relationship .

01:39:52.044 --> 01:39:54.155
Are you maternal ? Are you paternal ?

01:39:54.155 --> 01:39:56.211
Are you male ? Are you female , um ,

01:39:56.211 --> 01:39:58.322
and , and that's what we look at when

01:39:58.322 --> 01:40:00.211
we're collecting DNA references .

01:40:07.549 --> 01:40:11.549
Hi , excuse me , um , our family member

01:40:11.549 --> 01:40:15.129
missing MIA is , um , my uncle

01:40:15.350 --> 01:40:18.990
who only had 3 sisters . All of those

01:40:18.990 --> 01:40:22.870
sisters have female children , so

01:40:22.870 --> 01:40:25.149
I understand it becomes more difficult

01:40:25.149 --> 01:40:28.720
with that . They have they have

01:40:28.720 --> 01:40:32.399
sons and so the grandsons , could you

01:40:32.399 --> 01:40:35.770
explain why without too much difficulty ,

01:40:36.089 --> 01:40:38.830
um , why then those dependents

01:40:39.799 --> 01:40:43.209
cannot be utilized for the children

01:40:43.209 --> 01:40:45.270
further down the family line .

01:40:45.729 --> 01:40:49.589
Absolutely . So . A service member

01:40:49.810 --> 01:40:53.009
has a , a Y chromosome . They're mostly

01:40:53.009 --> 01:40:55.176
males from this generation . They have

01:40:55.176 --> 01:40:57.609
a Y chromosome that they inherited from

01:40:57.609 --> 01:41:00.080
their father . Any of their full

01:41:00.080 --> 01:41:02.779
sibling brothers would have the same Y

01:41:02.779 --> 01:41:04.946
chromosome , but females don't receive

01:41:04.946 --> 01:41:06.612
a Y chromosome . I have two X

01:41:06.612 --> 01:41:09.540
chromosomes , and so females don't have

01:41:09.540 --> 01:41:12.100
a Y chromosome to pass down . So the

01:41:12.100 --> 01:41:15.149
sisters didn't have Y's , they don't

01:41:15.299 --> 01:41:17.299
pass down their wives . They always

01:41:17.299 --> 01:41:19.188
pass down their X . Um , so it is

01:41:19.188 --> 01:41:21.259
entirely up to the male whether they

01:41:21.259 --> 01:41:24.089
have a boy or a girl . You're sending

01:41:24.089 --> 01:41:26.660
forward your Y or your X . So in this

01:41:26.660 --> 01:41:30.330
scenario . You have sisters , you have

01:41:30.330 --> 01:41:33.370
maternal nieces and nephews , we would

01:41:33.370 --> 01:41:35.649
collect whoever is available we would

01:41:35.649 --> 01:41:38.250
do mitochondrial DNA testing first . We

01:41:38.250 --> 01:41:41.129
would do whole genome sequencing and

01:41:41.129 --> 01:41:44.450
then now we would do the SNPs and

01:41:44.450 --> 01:41:46.450
because of the SNP testing that is

01:41:46.450 --> 01:41:48.959
available looking just at degree of

01:41:48.959 --> 01:41:52.319
relatedness . I really don't need the

01:41:52.319 --> 01:41:54.810
YSTR , the Y chromosome in the same way

01:41:54.810 --> 01:41:57.439
that I used to . And so , we would

01:41:57.439 --> 01:41:59.661
collect the closest available relatives

01:41:59.661 --> 01:42:02.220
who are still living and having

01:42:02.220 --> 01:42:04.439
multiple references would , should be

01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:06.439
enough to produce an identification

01:42:06.439 --> 01:42:09.229
using DNA . Thank you .

01:42:12.060 --> 01:42:14.338
OK , I've got a , I'm sorry about that .

01:42:14.338 --> 01:42:16.839
I've got a really um . I got a two part

01:42:16.839 --> 01:42:19.061
question . I think you answered part of

01:42:19.061 --> 01:42:21.160
it . Um , did I understand your grid

01:42:21.160 --> 01:42:23.271
correctly ? You guys can come down as

01:42:23.271 --> 01:42:25.680
far as the DNA down to a great , um ,

01:42:25.810 --> 01:42:28.839
grand or child , so to speak , or .

01:42:29.350 --> 01:42:32.549
Maybe in my case great grandnephew or

01:42:32.549 --> 01:42:35.140
niece , so , and I can , I can talk to

01:42:35.140 --> 01:42:37.251
you after the fact and we can go over

01:42:37.251 --> 01:42:38.990
the charts . This is specific

01:42:38.990 --> 01:42:41.390
relationship questions . Um , we go out

01:42:41.390 --> 01:42:43.750
to 4 degrees of relatedness now , so

01:42:43.750 --> 01:42:46.129
that accounts for great grandchildren ,

01:42:46.569 --> 01:42:48.870
great nephews and nieces . It's , it's

01:42:48.870 --> 01:42:51.037
expanded the eligibility on both sides

01:42:51.037 --> 01:42:53.470
of the family tree out to 4 degrees of

01:42:53.470 --> 01:42:55.581
relatedness . And my second part is ,

01:42:55.589 --> 01:42:57.700
is there a benefit to having multiple

01:42:57.700 --> 01:43:00.799
samples ? Yes , yes , we typically try

01:43:00.799 --> 01:43:03.700
to collect at least 2 reference samples

01:43:03.700 --> 01:43:07.140
per DNA type , so maternal , paternal ,

01:43:07.459 --> 01:43:10.779
autosomal , um , snip testing overlaps

01:43:10.779 --> 01:43:12.779
with all of those types , and so I

01:43:12.779 --> 01:43:15.700
don't need 2 additional snips , uh ,

01:43:15.830 --> 01:43:18.052
but when they are available , we'd like

01:43:18.052 --> 01:43:20.274
to collect multiple references just for

01:43:20.274 --> 01:43:22.163
concordance . Thank you so much .

01:43:25.680 --> 01:43:27.513
I , I just wanna echo everyone's

01:43:27.879 --> 01:43:29.712
thoughts . Thank you so much for

01:43:29.712 --> 01:43:31.712
everything that you're doing . Um ,

01:43:31.712 --> 01:43:33.935
just back to the snips , it looked like

01:43:33.935 --> 01:43:35.935
there was only like for each of the

01:43:35.935 --> 01:43:38.046
chromosomes there would be like 8% of

01:43:38.046 --> 01:43:40.268
one that was available down to like , I

01:43:40.268 --> 01:43:42.323
don't know , 1 or 2% of others . Are

01:43:42.323 --> 01:43:44.546
you continuing to develop more snips so

01:43:44.546 --> 01:43:46.268
that you can cover more of the

01:43:46.268 --> 01:43:49.520
chromosomes ? So , our

01:43:49.520 --> 01:43:53.310
95,000 SNP panel uh tries to ,

01:43:53.399 --> 01:43:56.859
to cover a , a range , the entire

01:43:57.549 --> 01:44:00.399
range of chromosomes . We're not

01:44:00.399 --> 01:44:02.399
working on developing an additional

01:44:02.399 --> 01:44:04.490
expanded panel for SNF testing

01:44:04.490 --> 01:44:06.850
specifically , but we are looking at

01:44:06.850 --> 01:44:09.250
some additional panels that may also be

01:44:09.250 --> 01:44:11.970
able to be used for the big casework

01:44:11.970 --> 01:44:14.370
that I mentioned , um , the comparison

01:44:14.370 --> 01:44:17.319
to , to external to publicly available

01:44:17.319 --> 01:44:20.930
databases just because those tests are

01:44:20.930 --> 01:44:23.263
all different . They're all sniff tests .

01:44:23.479 --> 01:44:26.430
But they aren't all the same SNPs for

01:44:26.430 --> 01:44:28.839
comparison . So you might not have the

01:44:28.839 --> 01:44:31.061
overlap you need between panels . So we

01:44:31.061 --> 01:44:33.061
are expanding the number of snips ,

01:44:33.061 --> 01:44:35.228
attempting to do that right now in our

01:44:35.228 --> 01:44:37.339
research in , in technology section .

01:44:42.509 --> 01:44:45.910
How long does it take from when a swab

01:44:45.910 --> 01:44:49.709
is submitted to you and you have

01:44:49.709 --> 01:44:52.270
it finally analyzed ? What's like ?

01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:55.689
To to use as a comparison .

01:44:57.529 --> 01:45:00.290
Routine testing takes about 6 months ,

01:45:00.450 --> 01:45:02.649
but it is very dependent on exactly

01:45:02.649 --> 01:45:05.089
which test we are performing , and that

01:45:05.089 --> 01:45:07.810
depends on your specific relatedness to

01:45:07.810 --> 01:45:10.169
the individual . Um , we certainly

01:45:10.169 --> 01:45:12.560
can't expedite testing , and , and

01:45:12.560 --> 01:45:15.049
sometimes that's necessary if the DPAA

01:45:15.470 --> 01:45:17.470
has a case in the laboratory that ,

01:45:17.549 --> 01:45:19.709
that they believe this to be . Uh ,

01:45:19.790 --> 01:45:21.846
there are times where we have a case

01:45:21.846 --> 01:45:23.734
where we're waiting on a specific

01:45:23.734 --> 01:45:25.734
reference and then that can sort of

01:45:25.734 --> 01:45:27.734
move to the , the front of the line

01:45:27.734 --> 01:45:29.734
because it may lead to an ID , uh ,

01:45:29.830 --> 01:45:32.790
immediately , uh , but on average about

01:45:32.790 --> 01:45:36.759
6 months , 6 months . Yes ,

01:45:36.870 --> 01:45:38.648
ma'am . If you'll hold on for a

01:45:38.648 --> 01:45:39.648
microphone .

01:45:47.330 --> 01:45:49.330
If you would hold , ma'am , because

01:45:49.330 --> 01:45:51.552
this is being live streamed and we have

01:45:51.552 --> 01:45:53.719
a live stream audience that would like

01:45:53.719 --> 01:45:55.886
to hear questions also , so go ahead .

01:45:59.009 --> 01:46:01.176
Jen , I , I haven't had an opportunity

01:46:01.176 --> 01:46:03.287
to look through everything , so maybe

01:46:03.287 --> 01:46:05.231
it's already there , but before we

01:46:05.231 --> 01:46:08.720
leave . Will there be a phone number or

01:46:09.180 --> 01:46:12.419
email addresses that we can access if

01:46:12.419 --> 01:46:15.370
we have questions about something ?

01:46:15.580 --> 01:46:17.939
That's the first question . The second

01:46:17.939 --> 01:46:21.580
question is , um , is there a way that

01:46:21.580 --> 01:46:25.020
we can personally contact relatives

01:46:25.020 --> 01:46:28.810
that are not here to access ,

01:46:28.899 --> 01:46:31.010
I mean , you know , to be able to get

01:46:31.010 --> 01:46:34.890
their DNA samples to you . So , to

01:46:34.890 --> 01:46:37.470
answer your question on contact

01:46:37.470 --> 01:46:39.637
information , uh , when you first came

01:46:39.637 --> 01:46:43.089
in , there was a table set up with um

01:46:43.700 --> 01:46:46.109
Information pamphlets that you could

01:46:46.109 --> 01:46:48.700
take with you . On the back of one of

01:46:48.700 --> 01:46:51.589
the cards is the phone numbers for all

01:46:51.589 --> 01:46:54.189
of the service casualty offices . So if

01:46:54.189 --> 01:46:57.609
you have any follow-on questions or

01:46:57.620 --> 01:46:59.990
questions about relationships to submit

01:46:59.990 --> 01:47:02.270
DNA , if you would contact your service

01:47:02.270 --> 01:47:04.790
casualty office , they would be able to

01:47:04.790 --> 01:47:07.350
then take your question and get it to

01:47:07.350 --> 01:47:09.629
the right agency , or they would be

01:47:09.629 --> 01:47:11.573
able to answer your question about

01:47:11.573 --> 01:47:14.899
family relationship for DNA . Thank you .

01:47:15.319 --> 01:47:19.060
Yes . Our service member is

01:47:19.060 --> 01:47:22.939
our mother's . Brother , as he had

01:47:22.939 --> 01:47:26.770
no children . We gave a DNA sample back

01:47:26.770 --> 01:47:30.370
in like 2007 before all of

01:47:30.370 --> 01:47:34.089
these new technology . Should we submit

01:47:34.089 --> 01:47:37.089
another one or is that sample still

01:47:37.089 --> 01:47:40.600
good enough ? Your sample is , is still

01:47:40.600 --> 01:47:42.322
good enough . I go back and do

01:47:42.322 --> 01:47:44.544
additional testing . That's why we take

01:47:44.544 --> 01:47:46.656
3 swabs off the bat so that we have ,

01:47:46.656 --> 01:47:49.240
we test one , we save the others . If I

01:47:49.240 --> 01:47:52.120
ever need an additional sample , I will

01:47:52.120 --> 01:47:54.009
reach out . I'll have the service

01:47:54.009 --> 01:47:56.176
casualty officer reach out . Um , when

01:47:56.176 --> 01:47:58.509
we get the list , the registration list ,

01:47:58.759 --> 01:48:00.481
we go through and look for DNA

01:48:00.481 --> 01:48:02.819
eligibility . If there was somebody who

01:48:02.819 --> 01:48:04.986
we needed an additional sample from at

01:48:04.986 --> 01:48:07.208
that point , say we've done testing for

01:48:07.208 --> 01:48:09.375
all of their swabs , we would mark you

01:48:09.375 --> 01:48:11.486
for recollection . So if that , if we

01:48:11.486 --> 01:48:13.708
didn't let you know that we need more ,

01:48:13.708 --> 01:48:15.763
the sample we have on file is good .

01:48:15.763 --> 01:48:17.097
Thank you . Thank you .

01:48:20.240 --> 01:48:22.129
Good afternoon . Thanks again for

01:48:22.129 --> 01:48:23.851
everything . Uh , I have a few

01:48:23.851 --> 01:48:26.184
questions here . First question is , um ,

01:48:26.184 --> 01:48:28.600
could someone speak to how long , uh ,

01:48:28.609 --> 01:48:32.049
DNA samples remain in human skeletal

01:48:32.049 --> 01:48:34.049
remains that are in the ground ? Is

01:48:34.049 --> 01:48:36.049
that , obviously , they deteriorate

01:48:36.049 --> 01:48:38.160
over time and so , you know , what is

01:48:38.160 --> 01:48:40.438
that time frame and how does that work ?

01:48:40.438 --> 01:48:43.229
Um , I'll ask , I'll ask all three and

01:48:43.229 --> 01:48:45.451
then if you can figure out and get your

01:48:45.451 --> 01:48:47.673
answers . The second question is , uh ,

01:48:47.673 --> 01:48:49.785
it was spoken to about disinterring ,

01:48:49.785 --> 01:48:51.785
uh , unknowns , and I just wondered

01:48:51.785 --> 01:48:54.109
where we are in that process . Um , is

01:48:54.109 --> 01:48:56.529
there , is a plan to disinter ? All

01:48:56.529 --> 01:48:59.089
unknowns and , or does that have a

01:48:59.089 --> 01:49:01.990
trigger before that happens . And then ,

01:49:02.000 --> 01:49:04.229
uh , the third thing , just recently ,

01:49:04.330 --> 01:49:06.497
for instance , with uh COVID and other

01:49:06.497 --> 01:49:08.719
disease study , um , there's monitoring

01:49:08.719 --> 01:49:11.169
done in wastewater now for um checking

01:49:11.169 --> 01:49:13.680
for germs or whatever that come through

01:49:13.680 --> 01:49:15.458
wastewater . So as you're doing

01:49:15.458 --> 01:49:18.009
fieldwork , um , you know , and I see

01:49:18.009 --> 01:49:20.870
the wet , uh , washing of the remains .

01:49:21.770 --> 01:49:23.937
Uh , and I know you're screening for a

01:49:23.937 --> 01:49:26.319
quarter inch , but is there even some

01:49:26.319 --> 01:49:28.770
time when maybe that's a new technique

01:49:28.770 --> 01:49:30.992
that might be used to identify if there

01:49:30.992 --> 01:49:32.992
is human DNA running through that ?

01:49:32.992 --> 01:49:36.069
It's probably too . To , uh , Toshiba .

01:49:36.890 --> 01:49:38.890
Thank you . So we'll start with the

01:49:38.890 --> 01:49:41.001
disinterment question first , Captain

01:49:41.001 --> 01:49:43.112
Bonner , you want to address that ? I

01:49:43.112 --> 01:49:46.729
can , yeah . Mm . Sir , do you mean the

01:49:46.729 --> 01:49:48.896
disinterments , like all disinterments

01:49:48.896 --> 01:49:50.840
of all unknowns , or do you mean a

01:49:50.840 --> 01:49:53.339
specific project ? Well , within ,

01:49:53.919 --> 01:49:55.808
within from this time frame we're

01:49:55.808 --> 01:49:57.752
talking World War 2 , OK , so he's

01:49:57.752 --> 01:49:59.752
asking for , for really most of our

01:49:59.752 --> 01:50:02.009
most unknowns from , from within our

01:50:02.009 --> 01:50:04.176
mandate , which is World War 2 through

01:50:04.176 --> 01:50:07.609
our present day . So we , um , we , we

01:50:07.609 --> 01:50:09.720
have . Projects what we call projects

01:50:09.720 --> 01:50:13.666
which would be big , uh , big groups of

01:50:13.666 --> 01:50:15.666
unknowns that are associated with a

01:50:15.666 --> 01:50:19.086
certain loss event . So , um , based on

01:50:19.466 --> 01:50:22.106
the specific , uh , the circumstances

01:50:22.106 --> 01:50:24.187
of that loss and whether there's a

01:50:24.187 --> 01:50:26.465
certain grouping that we can associate ,

01:50:26.465 --> 01:50:28.946
we would typically try to pursue those

01:50:28.946 --> 01:50:31.563
by that project . Because it's often

01:50:31.563 --> 01:50:34.483
helpful or actually necessary for us to

01:50:34.483 --> 01:50:36.724
get the full complete sets of those

01:50:36.724 --> 01:50:39.244
unknowns in order to do , uh , the full

01:50:39.244 --> 01:50:41.244
processing and understand the , the

01:50:41.244 --> 01:50:43.411
pieces of how the pieces of those that

01:50:43.411 --> 01:50:45.466
puzzle fit together , um , but there

01:50:45.466 --> 01:50:47.466
are plenty of unknowns that are not

01:50:47.466 --> 01:50:49.633
necessarily associated with a , with a

01:50:49.633 --> 01:50:52.583
project or a big loss event and so we ,

01:50:52.644 --> 01:50:54.980
we Might still go after some of those

01:50:54.980 --> 01:50:56.980
individual cases , but it , it just

01:50:56.980 --> 01:50:59.541
requires additional work and , um , and

01:50:59.541 --> 01:51:02.291
we have to have uh developed enough

01:51:02.291 --> 01:51:04.690
information about those cases to know ,

01:51:04.860 --> 01:51:07.621
uh , that we have a good chance of

01:51:07.621 --> 01:51:09.788
making an identification . So there is

01:51:09.788 --> 01:51:12.141
a lot of research that would go into

01:51:12.141 --> 01:51:14.181
supporting a disinterment . Does

01:51:14.181 --> 01:51:16.403
anybody else here want to add to that ?

01:51:16.600 --> 01:51:18.767
Chris , can you speak to the or Josh ,

01:51:18.767 --> 01:51:21.520
the process of developing a

01:51:21.520 --> 01:51:23.687
disinterment package ? Yeah , so the ,

01:51:23.687 --> 01:51:25.853
the , the first thing that I'll say is

01:51:25.853 --> 01:51:28.020
there's a , there's a deputy secretary

01:51:28.020 --> 01:51:30.076
of Defense , a previous Secretary of

01:51:30.076 --> 01:51:32.076
Defense signed a policy that said ,

01:51:32.076 --> 01:51:31.930
well , we can't , we can't disinter .

01:51:32.020 --> 01:51:34.076
So that's based on the likelihood of

01:51:34.076 --> 01:51:35.742
whether or not we can make an

01:51:35.742 --> 01:51:38.020
identification or not . Largely for us ,

01:51:38.020 --> 01:51:40.242
that's a DNA threshold . So there are ,

01:51:40.242 --> 01:51:42.187
there , there are two thresholds .

01:51:42.187 --> 01:51:44.409
There's a 50% threshold , there's a 60%

01:51:44.409 --> 01:51:44.270
threshold . So when we talk about the

01:51:44.270 --> 01:51:47.259
50% , that's just an individual unknown

01:51:47.259 --> 01:51:49.481
that is not part of one of the projects

01:51:49.481 --> 01:51:51.703
that Captain Bonner just talked about .

01:51:51.703 --> 01:51:53.759
So if we just think that one unknown

01:51:53.759 --> 01:51:55.981
could be 10 men that were on one bomber

01:51:55.981 --> 01:51:58.092
crew , for example , we need at least

01:51:58.092 --> 01:52:00.203
half the DNA for the 10 men that were

01:52:00.203 --> 01:52:02.370
on that cruise . So we need at least 5

01:52:02.370 --> 01:52:01.830
crew members' DNA . And if we don't

01:52:01.830 --> 01:52:03.774
have that , that doesn't meet that

01:52:03.774 --> 01:52:05.886
threshold to get that , that proposal

01:52:05.886 --> 01:52:08.108
for it doesn't turn it past the . The ,

01:52:08.108 --> 01:52:11.109
the level up above DPAA if it is a

01:52:11.109 --> 01:52:13.149
project , so , uh , something like

01:52:13.149 --> 01:52:15.740
Cabanatuan or the Postria raids in , in ,

01:52:15.750 --> 01:52:17.870
in Romania , that's , that's a 60%

01:52:17.870 --> 01:52:20.203
threshold . So you have to get up to 60 ,

01:52:20.203 --> 01:52:22.203
60% . So let's say you have , I was

01:52:22.203 --> 01:52:24.370
just gonna make a round number because

01:52:24.370 --> 01:52:24.149
if I was good at math , I wouldn't be a

01:52:24.149 --> 01:52:26.229
historian . Let's do 100 . So if you

01:52:26.229 --> 01:52:28.340
got 1000 people that are part of that

01:52:28.340 --> 01:52:30.507
project , right , you would need 60 of

01:52:30.507 --> 01:52:32.507
those 100 people's DNA to meet that

01:52:32.507 --> 01:52:34.729
threshold to be able to get that . That

01:52:34.729 --> 01:52:36.896
disinterment off the ground and out of

01:52:36.896 --> 01:52:38.951
the agency and and and and and , and

01:52:38.951 --> 01:52:40.959
exhumed . um . In general , the

01:52:40.959 --> 01:52:43.126
beginning of all of this is research ,

01:52:43.126 --> 01:52:45.292
right ? So we have to have a reason to

01:52:45.292 --> 01:52:47.570
believe that we think we know , like a ,

01:52:47.570 --> 01:52:49.515
like a a 50% likelihood is , do we

01:52:49.515 --> 01:52:51.626
actually think we know who this could

01:52:51.626 --> 01:52:53.626
be ? Um , that starts in research ,

01:52:53.626 --> 01:52:55.681
that's data , that's putting dots on

01:52:55.681 --> 01:52:57.459
maps by using archival research

01:52:57.459 --> 01:52:59.570
information we've . Gathered from the

01:52:59.570 --> 01:53:01.570
field this set of remains came from

01:53:01.570 --> 01:53:03.737
where and who went missing in the area

01:53:03.737 --> 01:53:03.729
where this set of remains came from so

01:53:03.729 --> 01:53:05.850
that we can give the lab a good list

01:53:05.850 --> 01:53:08.017
like we , we could give the lab all of

01:53:08.017 --> 01:53:10.183
the unknowns and the lab could do what

01:53:10.183 --> 01:53:12.350
they do and and AFO could do what they

01:53:12.350 --> 01:53:14.572
do , uh , but historically we give them

01:53:14.572 --> 01:53:16.683
a historical list first . So , um , I

01:53:16.683 --> 01:53:19.870
think these people in a . Let's say I'm

01:53:19.870 --> 01:53:22.149
doing a ground loss project , and I

01:53:22.149 --> 01:53:24.371
know that this set of remains came from

01:53:24.371 --> 01:53:26.260
a very specific place because the

01:53:26.260 --> 01:53:25.979
X-File is the location of where the

01:53:25.979 --> 01:53:28.149
remains were initially found . We're

01:53:28.149 --> 01:53:31.560
gonna Take that spot , do a

01:53:31.560 --> 01:53:33.616
geospatial analysis of everybody who

01:53:33.616 --> 01:53:35.560
went missing in that area within ,

01:53:35.560 --> 01:53:37.782
let's say if it's a ground loss , maybe

01:53:37.782 --> 01:53:37.310
within 2 kilometers in there . This ,

01:53:37.399 --> 01:53:39.566
this is the unit that was there . Only

01:53:39.566 --> 01:53:41.677
the 352nd Infantry Regiment ever went

01:53:41.677 --> 01:53:43.677
through here . So who are the 352nd

01:53:43.677 --> 01:53:45.843
Infantry Regiment guys who are missing

01:53:45.843 --> 01:53:47.843
in this place ? That's gonna be our

01:53:47.843 --> 01:53:47.830
list . So let's say we might have . A

01:53:47.830 --> 01:53:50.009
list that starts with like 18 . We

01:53:50.009 --> 01:53:52.176
write that from a historical context .

01:53:52.176 --> 01:53:54.398
This is our historical list of who went

01:53:54.398 --> 01:53:56.453
missing there . We then give that to

01:53:56.453 --> 01:53:58.509
the laboratory . The laboratory does

01:53:58.509 --> 01:54:00.565
their own analysis based on the list

01:54:00.565 --> 01:54:00.290
that we gave them and says , OK , well

01:54:00.290 --> 01:54:02.401
this guy's teeth doesn't match . This

01:54:02.401 --> 01:54:04.457
guy's too tall , so they'll take our

01:54:04.457 --> 01:54:06.512
historical list and they'll cut that

01:54:06.512 --> 01:54:08.512
down . That 50 and 60% threshold is

01:54:08.512 --> 01:54:10.512
based on the final list between the

01:54:10.512 --> 01:54:12.734
historical information that we have and

01:54:12.734 --> 01:54:14.790
then the lab's final analysis of who

01:54:14.790 --> 01:54:16.846
can't match just anthropologically .

01:54:16.846 --> 01:54:20.470
Did that help ? So we ,

01:54:20.600 --> 01:54:22.656
so Josh just did gave a great , uh ,

01:54:22.656 --> 01:54:25.040
detailed answer for how we even get to

01:54:25.040 --> 01:54:26.929
where we are ready . We approve a

01:54:26.929 --> 01:54:29.151
disinterment , but once we have those ,

01:54:29.151 --> 01:54:32.169
then we schedule those disinterments .

01:54:32.319 --> 01:54:34.375
Uh , and we have to plan that pretty

01:54:34.375 --> 01:54:36.541
far out as well because the season for

01:54:36.541 --> 01:54:38.375
disinterring is not , it's based

01:54:38.375 --> 01:54:41.040
heavily on the geographic location and

01:54:41.040 --> 01:54:43.262
also based on the through . Put for the

01:54:43.262 --> 01:54:45.430
lab , how many uh sets of remains the

01:54:45.430 --> 01:54:48.430
lab could process at any time . So we

01:54:48.430 --> 01:54:50.529
will actually have a pretty , uh ,

01:54:50.830 --> 01:54:53.589
discrete plan of when we're gonna do

01:54:53.589 --> 01:54:55.700
disinterments throughout the year and

01:54:55.700 --> 01:54:57.922
based on that location and based on the

01:54:57.922 --> 01:55:00.256
throughput for the lab . So it's , it's ,

01:55:00.256 --> 01:55:02.256
uh , it's planned out pretty far in

01:55:02.256 --> 01:55:04.256
advance once we have those approved

01:55:04.256 --> 01:55:06.750
packages . And then you had two other

01:55:06.750 --> 01:55:08.149
questions DNA .

01:55:12.339 --> 01:55:16.229
OK , I think the DNA was , how , how

01:55:16.229 --> 01:55:19.049
long , how long is DNA recoverable for ?

01:55:19.390 --> 01:55:22.069
Um , that makes me think of the slide

01:55:22.069 --> 01:55:24.291
that I put up with the , the green bars

01:55:24.291 --> 01:55:26.069
and the purple bars , the , the

01:55:26.069 --> 01:55:27.791
comparison from the Max Planck

01:55:27.791 --> 01:55:30.013
Institute . Literally some of our World

01:55:30.013 --> 01:55:32.830
War II and Korea remains have DNA

01:55:32.830 --> 01:55:35.729
amounts similar to 40,000 year old

01:55:35.729 --> 01:55:39.009
remains . So they are recoverable

01:55:39.009 --> 01:55:42.250
between 800 , and 40,000 years if that

01:55:42.250 --> 01:55:44.361
helps . I , I think it , it gets down

01:55:44.361 --> 01:55:46.417
to a , a point of diminishing return

01:55:46.417 --> 01:55:48.439
and then stays steady . It , it

01:55:48.439 --> 01:55:50.606
definitely depends on the conditions .

01:55:50.810 --> 01:55:53.032
Um , there are a lot of factors that go

01:55:53.032 --> 01:55:55.450
into recoveries and , and where the

01:55:55.450 --> 01:55:58.410
remains have been , but it continues to

01:55:58.410 --> 01:56:01.950
be able to be sequenced long after ,

01:56:02.310 --> 01:56:04.477
after the losses that we're looking at

01:56:04.477 --> 01:56:08.450
right now . Sir , did that

01:56:08.450 --> 01:56:12.160
answer your questions on OK , thank you .

01:56:12.430 --> 01:56:13.250
Anyone else ?

01:56:16.819 --> 01:56:17.819
You said a dumb .

01:56:20.790 --> 01:56:23.669
Going back to the lady's point earlier

01:56:23.669 --> 01:56:27.080
about the budget being cut . Do you get

01:56:27.080 --> 01:56:29.120
any funding from outside sources ,

01:56:29.479 --> 01:56:31.701
foundations or anything like that or is

01:56:31.701 --> 01:56:33.923
it just through the military budget and

01:56:33.923 --> 01:56:36.146
if there's anything from outside , what

01:56:36.146 --> 01:56:38.201
percentage of your budget comes from

01:56:38.279 --> 01:56:40.279
outside from donations or something

01:56:40.279 --> 01:56:41.279
like that or ?

01:56:45.430 --> 01:56:49.100
Thank you for the question . Um , so I

01:56:49.100 --> 01:56:51.299
think in the last few years we've been

01:56:51.299 --> 01:56:54.450
authorized to , uh , receive gifts .

01:56:54.540 --> 01:56:57.009
We're not authorized to solicit funding ,

01:56:57.259 --> 01:56:59.970
and we have had some very , uh ,

01:57:00.339 --> 01:57:02.970
generous . Uh , the Veterans of Foreign

01:57:02.970 --> 01:57:05.169
Wars , for example , has provided some

01:57:05.169 --> 01:57:07.729
funding for , uh , different activities ,

01:57:07.810 --> 01:57:09.970
relatively small amounts that is

01:57:09.970 --> 01:57:11.970
available , but again it's , it's a

01:57:11.970 --> 01:57:14.081
little difficult because we can't ask

01:57:14.081 --> 01:57:16.209
for it , so people just have to have

01:57:16.209 --> 01:57:19.120
the generosity . That said , with our

01:57:19.120 --> 01:57:22.040
partners , um , our partners can go out

01:57:22.040 --> 01:57:24.207
and solicit funding , and they've done

01:57:24.207 --> 01:57:26.429
that very successfully . They have done

01:57:26.429 --> 01:57:28.540
missions for virtually no cost , uh ,

01:57:28.540 --> 01:57:30.839
that's going on as we speak , so pretty

01:57:30.839 --> 01:57:34.220
robust effort by partners to uh .

01:57:35.450 --> 01:57:38.359
Do fundraising and pay for field work ,

01:57:38.399 --> 01:57:41.930
etc . and a matter of fact , um ,

01:57:42.359 --> 01:57:44.640
University of Wisconsin and some other

01:57:44.640 --> 01:57:46.751
state institutions have gone to their

01:57:46.751 --> 01:57:49.120
state legislatures and asked for state

01:57:49.120 --> 01:57:51.759
funding , uh , which has succeeded in a

01:57:51.759 --> 01:57:53.680
couple of instances . So that's

01:57:53.680 --> 01:57:55.847
something that's going on again it's ,

01:57:55.847 --> 01:57:58.069
it's , we just have to kind of wait for

01:57:58.069 --> 01:58:00.291
it to come to us , but the partners are

01:58:00.291 --> 01:58:02.513
certainly pursuing it and , and we , we

01:58:02.513 --> 01:58:04.569
encourage them . And support them in

01:58:04.569 --> 01:58:06.569
that effort . I don't have anything

01:58:06.569 --> 01:58:08.680
else . Did that answer the question ?

01:58:08.680 --> 01:58:11.669
Thank you . Thank you . Anyone else ?

01:58:14.490 --> 01:58:16.546
Yes , sir . If you'll hold on just a

01:58:16.546 --> 01:58:18.712
minute , they'll bring a microphone to

01:58:18.712 --> 01:58:17.509
you .

01:58:22.620 --> 01:58:24.453
I , I was curious because of the

01:58:24.453 --> 01:58:26.939
importance of your work , how much has

01:58:26.939 --> 01:58:30.720
it driven the advancements of the

01:58:31.060 --> 01:58:32.439
science of DNA test .

01:58:38.830 --> 01:58:40.997
I feel like I missed the first part of

01:58:40.997 --> 01:58:42.997
the question . How just how has the

01:58:42.997 --> 01:58:45.219
mission driven the science ? Yeah , the

01:58:45.219 --> 01:58:47.669
importance of it and the need to to

01:58:47.669 --> 01:58:49.629
advance in it . How much has it

01:58:49.629 --> 01:58:52.259
influenced it . Well , we are

01:58:52.259 --> 01:58:53.926
constantly trying to find new

01:58:53.926 --> 01:58:56.319
techniques to be able to bridge the

01:58:56.319 --> 01:58:59.160
gaps in what , who we can identify and

01:58:59.160 --> 01:59:02.080
who we still cannot , um , and as you

01:59:02.080 --> 01:59:04.720
can see the , the 10 year timeline for

01:59:04.720 --> 01:59:07.240
development of our SNP testing that has

01:59:07.240 --> 01:59:09.919
really been , uh , a huge goal of ours

01:59:09.919 --> 01:59:12.250
for a long time to be able to use

01:59:12.250 --> 01:59:16.060
autosomal DNA analysis in a way that

01:59:16.060 --> 01:59:18.140
is independent of specific

01:59:18.140 --> 01:59:21.950
relationships . Um , that was a huge

01:59:21.950 --> 01:59:24.549
driving factor , and you have to have

01:59:24.549 --> 01:59:26.716
the technology to be able to do that .

01:59:26.750 --> 01:59:30.069
And so , previously we , we were not

01:59:30.069 --> 01:59:33.450
quite there . Um , we had to find

01:59:35.160 --> 01:59:37.439
Assays that work specifically for our

01:59:37.439 --> 01:59:40.149
sample types . Um , we know that the

01:59:40.149 --> 01:59:43.669
next step really beyond SNPs is the

01:59:43.669 --> 01:59:45.870
challenge of service members who might

01:59:45.870 --> 01:59:48.410
not have references on files with us

01:59:48.700 --> 01:59:50.922
and figuring out what we can do to , to

01:59:50.922 --> 01:59:53.490
close that gap and so for us . That is

01:59:53.930 --> 01:59:56.330
looking to the externally available ,

01:59:56.410 --> 01:59:58.632
publicly available databases and seeing

01:59:58.632 --> 02:00:00.688
what we can do there . And so that's

02:00:00.688 --> 02:00:02.799
what we're currently focused on , but

02:00:02.799 --> 02:00:04.910
we see a problem and we try to figure

02:00:04.910 --> 02:00:07.132
out how , how we can solve that and how

02:00:07.132 --> 02:00:09.354
we can advance our ability to , to make

02:00:09.354 --> 02:00:13.200
those identifications . Any other

02:00:13.200 --> 02:00:14.200
questions ?

02:00:17.970 --> 02:00:20.029
OK , thank you very much .